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#2385 – Rick Strassman Podcast Episode Description
Rick Strassman, MD, is a Clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at the University of New Mexico School of Medicine. He is the author of several books, the most recent of which is 2024’s “My Altered States: A Doctor’s Extraordinary Account of Trauma, Psychedelics, and Spiritual Growth.”www.rickstrassman.com
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#2385 – Rick Strassman Podcast Episode Summary
Based on the provided context, the phrase “has joined the group” refers to someone becoming a member of a group, band, club, or team. Throughout the conversation, there are multiple references to joining various groups, inviting members, and welcoming new people. Specific examples include:
– “we joined the band”
– “He should’ve joined the…”
– “Join the team.”
– “Welcome to the club.”
– “add one more bestie.”
– “they’re in, they’re in.”
– “invite you to…”
These statements all indicate the act of someone joining or being added to a group or collective. However, the context does not specify exactly who “has joined the group” in a particular instance. The general meaning is clear: it signifies the addition of a new member to a group. If you are looking for a specific individual who joined a specific group, that information is not explicitly provided in the context.
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#2385 – Rick Strassman Podcast Episode Transcript (Unedited)
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Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Showing my day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. I sai. This is a book I read eleven years ago. Oh, okay. The Ai
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The The The The The The The The The The The The The The The Ai
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00:30
Do you think they’re the same thing?
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00:32
Well, the phenomenology is pretty similar. Like, if you read chapter one of Ezekiel, there’s, flames and there’s angels and there’s wings and there’s eyes on the back of wings and there’s roaring sound and, blue ice above the person. He flies through space.
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00:51
Mhmm. Yeah. Quite quite psychedelic.
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00:53
Yeah. Wheel within a wheel. Right. The the description of the things that people usually they try to say that it’s some sort of a UAP. That’s, that’s the common thing that people like to say.
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01:05
Right? Well, it could be.
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01:07
Which also might be connected.
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01:09
It could be a DMT vision, though.
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01:11
Oh, easily. Yeah. Well, you know the guys out of Jerusalem that think that the whole burning bush thing was DMT.
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01:19
Yeah. Well, that was the first theophany of Moses. Yeah. First time he had a a prophetic experience. Yeah. And I
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01:27
mean, it’s ai that’s what it is. It’s literally a plant that has high levels of DMT. And if you burned it and smoked it, it’s ai crazy that that’s the way it comes. That it I mean, this is it’s I just and I ai I I really applaud you for learning ancient Hebrew sai you could go back and read it in the the original tongue, which is really fascinating.
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01:53
Can you say it took, like, sixteen years to learn it?
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01:56
That prophecy book took sixteen years to ai, and I had to learn Hebrew while I was reading and, you know, doing the writing. Shah what was it
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02:04
That’s amazing.
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02:05
What’s cool is the, Hebrew word for bush, burning bush, is the same as as, Sinai, Mount Sinai. Really?
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02:14
Yeah. Yeah. The words the same?
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02:17
The same root. The the thing about the Hebrew language, at least, for biblical Hebrew, is every word is based on a three letter root. So the word for bush contains those three letters, and the word force, you know, for Sinai contains those those same three letters.
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02:36
And how is that significant? Like, you you could have that I’m sure there’s English examples of three letters that are similar, but completely different meaning. Like, what why is why those three letters as
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02:47
a
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02:47
root connect these words
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02:51
uniquely? Well, it could be that bush grew on Mount Ai. And, you know, that was the significance of the location of the burning bush.
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02:59
Oh, I see. So it was literally named after that experience.
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03:03
Could be. Could be. Yeah. Well, you’re talking about the acacia bush, which releases DMT Yeah. When it’s burnt.
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03:10
And it’s very common in that area. Right?
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03:12
Yeah. In fact, there’s a plant as a weed, called peganum harmala, which also grows in that part of the world. And it contains beta carbolines, which are the, compounds responsible for making DMT, for making Ayahuasca orally active. So they have their own Ayahuasca plants available in tandem there.
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03:39
Isn’t it bizarre that you saying that to many people listening sounds utterly crazy? Like, the proposition, just proposing that these people that were writing these things down a long time ago, these experiences, they were probably experiencing some sort of a psychedelic state, and they were trying to describe it.
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04:02
Well, in thinking about, you know, psychedelic states back then and, you know, in the prophetic literature, you know, you can think of the visions as being generated from the bottom up when you take something. In the model of the Hebrew Ai anyway, it all comes it it all, you know, comes down from God. You know?
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04:25
So it’s about it’s it’s a top down, you know, your causal relationship between the source of the visions and the visions as opposed to them being generated by taking something. It’s it’s exogenous DMT versus endogenous DMT.
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04:46
And if we ai to when what is the difference, like, for your interpretation, like, you I I know you had read the English version of the Ai. But what is the difference between learning ancient Hebrew and reading it in, like, the source language? Like, what was it like for you? Like, what what made it different?
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05:07
Well, I mean, it might be helpful to even go back to why I started reading the Hebrew Bible. Sure. Yeah. Of of of all things. Yeah. Well, when I was doing my DMT work, I was really involved with the Zen Buddhist community, that I arya affiliating myself with learning from when I was 22.
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05:29
And, that was the spiritual approach I took to the DMT work. I was expecting it to be consistent with a Buddhist enlightenment goal, you know, with no form, no thoughts, no sense of self, anything like that. So that was the expectation that I took in with me when I was doing those studies.
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05:50
Would people have those kinds of experiences just being given DMT without any other trappings? No expectation. Just go in there, you know, tell us what it’s like. So instead of that, it was DMT. It was full of content. People were interacting with it.
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06:07
Their sense of self sai maintained, which was not at all consistent with the the Buddhist model that I brought to bear. Yeah. So that was going on. Like, okay. You know, Buddhism is not quite holding up to the data. And then my Buddhist community and I parted ways over the psychedelic work.
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06:25
They thought it was promoting a, you know, ai idea that psychedelics can be spiritual. So there arya some personal issues as well that led to something that was, you know, different than the Buddhist model. So I’m Jewish. I was wandering around a new age bookstore and found a very cool book called The Kabbalah of Envy by Milton Bonder.
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06:51
And, it’s a very short book, and he starts describing the the difference between a grudge, and revenge and envy and jealousy. Very subtle ideas about, you know, how to relate to the world. And it came from the Jewish, you know, model ram Jewish philosophy, Jewish psychology.
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07:13
So I thought, oh, interesting, interesting. You know, maybe there’s something in my own tradition that was more consistent with the DMT, effect and also was more personally relevant. So I started to read the Hebrew ai and then just went down this huge rabbit hole. You know?
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07:32
So when you’re reading it in Hebrew, you’re reading three you’re reading words that are derived from three letter roots. And those, roots may have a huge, range of meaning. Something, for example, could cause a sin, and something could, remove a sin just by an extra, you know, dot in the middle of a letter. You know?
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07:59
So it can really kind of bring you closer to the kind of large scale way of looking at the text. It doesn’t just a follows b follows c, but it’s, there’s a diffuse dispersion of a, then there’s b, and then there’s c. There are these, you know, clouds of interaction, which are a lot more fluid than what would be a straightforward English, rendition.
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08:29
Did you get to a point where you could, like, think in that language? Like, are you fluent enough in it that you could or do are you just interpreting it? Like, how good are you at it?
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08:42
Well, I mean, there’s a lot of ways to interact with the text. So the first thing came to ai when you’re asking that is, back in the day, I used to spin fleece into yarn and then weave the yarn into rugs. I speak that right, ai, after I stopped the DMT work. That’s all I did for a year was just
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09:03
Just make rugs?
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09:05
Yeah. Just spin wool and make rugs. Yeah. Sai, there’s a part when they’re building the tabernacle in the desert, you know, the, you know, the Hebrews have been meh out of Egypt, you know, by Moses, and and, you know, they’re in the wilderness. And, they’re building this tabernacle, to house the ark. And the women are spinning right from the goats.
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09:30
You know, they’re spinning the hair from the goats right into yarn without first, you know, shaving them. Right. And I was spending all that ai, ai, and, it, felt a ai back there. I was back there spinning.
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09:53
I’m not exactly sure what you mean by
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09:56
that. Well, I was spinning, yarn from a goat, a live goat. Right. And I was, like, in the mind of the person spinning it back then.
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10:10
So you just put yourself into that state while you’re doing it, and you that’s why Ai enjoyed it?
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10:15
Well, it was, it was, you know, like a resonance between me spinning, you know, wherever I was living back then and, just being in a trance with the spinning and identifying, you know, fully with someone who’s doing the spinning, like, way back when. It’s free from ai goat. Yeah. It was, what was it? I don’t know. It it was a trance.
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10:39
It was a a movement to to somebody else’s consciousness from, like, the distant distant past.
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10:45
And you so you actually felt when you were doing this ai you were a person that was living back then?
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10:51
Mhmm.
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10:51
What what else changed about how you were thinking other than the fact that you’re making clothes this way?
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10:57
Like, was
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10:58
it what what what were the other things that made you think like a person back then?
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11:02
Well, it was very cool. I mean, I was spinning yarn for the tabernacle, which was sana house the ark, you know, the ark of the covenant, 10 commandments, and all that. You know, it’s a very rich world, and, I think, you know, that’s the the first time I really saw, at least my whole person anyway, that could identify with the scene being described.
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11:23
And I think that comes from really understanding, you know, the language and how ambiguous it can be.
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11:33
One of the great things about language is being able to talk to people in it. How many people can you talk to in ancient Hebrew? Are there is there ai a chat group where you guys get together?
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11:44
Well, you know, there’s modern Hebrew now, which is spoken in Israel. And it’s, you know, based on biblical
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11:50
Is it the same as ancient Hebrew?
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11:52
You know, it has a it has a lot of, the same three letter roots. And the other words are the same. Means from and, Shalom means hello and What are
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12:04
the differences between, like, ancient Hebrew and standard Hebrew?
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12:08
Modern Hebrew. Yeah. I tell you, I I don’t know much about or I don’t know much modern Hebrew. Ai I was a kid, I went to Hebrew school and learned modern Hebrew, but it’s really without speaking it, you forget it.
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12:21
I’m in the middle of this audiobook of the Book of Enoch, and it’s one of the wildest things I’ve ever listened to in my life. It’s weird. Oh, my god. It’s so weird. When you realize that a lot of the people in the book of Enoch are also in the Ai and that it’s one of the craziest stories.
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12:42
It’s one of the craziest origin stories ever Mhmm. That angels came down and bryden with humans and made giants.
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12:51
Right.
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12:51
The giants destroyed the earth. Like, what is this story?
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12:56
It’s it’s it’s mostly in the Hebrew Ai. You know, it’s the story of what led to the flood. Yeah. The sons of Elohim.
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13:07
That what a strange concept. The angels came down and bryden with humans.
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13:13
It’s a very weird idea. Well, there’s different ways to look at translating B’nai Elohim. You know, it might be well, the first word B’nai means the sons of. You know, so it kind of revolves on what’s the meaning of Elohim. So it, you know, could be God with a big g, could be God with a small g, could be angels, could be dignitaries in a government ai judges.
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13:41
Mhmm.
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13:41
Yeah. So, you know, the less far out, kind of interpretation of that, phrase or the that that term is, you know, the sons of the mighty, the sons of the judges, you know, the sons of the renowned people, as as opposed to the, yes, the sons of angels or the or the sons of God.
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14:06
Okay. So what what how do you interpret the watchers? What do you think that could be?
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14:15
I think well, they’re not mentioned in the Hebrew Ai. They are mentioned in the book of Enoch. That’s sai crazy book, isn’t it?
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14:22
It’s crazy.
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14:25
Yeah. I started reading it. Ai said to my wife, I sai, like, I can’t handle this. It’s too much. It’s because
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14:32
if that was left in the Bible, if they decided that that was, like, a part of the canon, that would change everything.
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14:40
Well, in what way?
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14:42
It’s the craziest story ever that these things came down and bryden with humans and created ai, and the giants
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14:55
Bloodshed. What
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14:56
kind of kooky story is this? Like, what
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14:58
is this? Well, it’s the reason for the flood, you know, and all that.
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15:03
Yeah. Yeah.
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15:04
Yeah. Sai, yeah, things just got so bad. God said, I changed my mind. And he brings the flood.
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15:12
It’s ai the further you go back, the crazier the story gets.
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15:18
I know. Well, the book of Enoch was written maybe 01/2020 January. You know, so it’s pretty old. But some of the stories that originate or that the origination of some of the stories in the Hebrew Ai, go back, you know, ten thousand years perhaps. Wow.
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15:42
Wouldn’t you have loved to be a fly on the wall ten thousand years ago? To go, what were you guys writing down? What was what really happened?
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15:48
What really happened? Well, I mean
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15:51
It seems like for sure something happened.
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15:54
What?
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15:55
But whatever the whole Jesus Christ thing was. It seems like that was a real event.
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16:02
Right. As opposed to the flood.
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16:04
The flood seems like a real event too. Don’t don’t you think the flood was a real event? What about
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16:10
let’s see.
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16:10
I think the flood was the Younger Dryas impact. I think likely, obviously. I don’t know what I’m talking about. But my my inclination is to believe guys like Randall Carlson because it’s a very compelling narrative. Like, what he’s saying is we passed through a comet storm.
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16:28
It happens this this particular time every year. And there’s been times in history where we’ve been hit, and it’s very likely that this time period, that this Younger Dryas impact time period, that could have been the end of whatever civilization existed at the ai, and what we are is a rebuilding of it.
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16:47
Mhmm. We just kind of forgot about it. And it doesn’t make sense that you could forget, like, how they built the pyramids
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16:55
Mhmm.
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16:55
But they did. Like, you know, it’s it it seems like
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16:59
there was
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16:59
really advanced people Mhmm. At one point in time. Yeah. Something horrible happened, and then it took a while for people to bounce back. And we are we’re we’re the direct linear progression of the people, like, from Mesopotamia and Iraq and all that. That’s that’s us now. But before that, there was probably something really wild.
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17:23
Yeah. Well, if you look at the text’s description of, the generations from Adam to Noah, you know, what civilization was like between the beginning and the time of the end. Yeah. I mean, it became filled with ai. And, you know, God just, you know, said forget it. Yeah.
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17:44
You know, so that’s one way of looking at the Younger Dryas, I suppose. This is what it looks like when God changes his mind.
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17:51
Sure. That also could have been ai the Yucatan impact. Right? God’s like, we can’t get anywhere with these fucking dinosaurs everywhere. Just
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17:58
boom. Yeah.
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17:59
Ai about to get tired of lizards running the world for a couple, like, he maybe gave it a couple 100 million years, figure it out, guys.
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18:06
Mhmm.
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18:06
And then they have to reset.
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18:08
Yeah. But what comes after us, I wonder, in two hundred million years?
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18:14
I think it’s most likely digital. Yeah. I think we’re transferring what the idea of what a life form is. What does a life form do? We wanna think that it has to be just like ai, and I don’t think necessarily that’s true. I think we might be giving birth to something we didn’t anticipate would be a life. This episode is brought to you by Happy Dad Hard Seltzer.
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18:36
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Speaker: 0
19:37
Yeah. Very cool book Ai trying to mention as often as possible is called The Last and The First and Last Meh by Olaf Stapledon, and he talks about 19 species of sana. And this is the first one. It it’s a story spans 2,000,000,000 years. It’s this huge story. Oh. Yeah. And and it’s mostly through genetic engineering.
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19:57
Make make people bigger, smarter, like brains shah, occupy a football field. That’s what it is the species of of man. Yeah. You know, so his thought is that it occurs biologically, you know, through, you know, through genetic manipulation.
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20:17
Just over time naturally?
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20:21
After a while, it gets steered. Yeah. Let let let me think. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s all basically based on what people are, you know, what people want. You know? So there’s one species that, instead of love as kind of the core, core valued feeling, they have hate as their core valued feeling.
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20:48
So you just can’t wait to hate?
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20:50
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s one of the species that kind of goes through Wow. Period of, you know, ai and then decline, obviously. It it just couldn’t sustain itself.
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21:04
Well, you gotta wonder, like, how long this is if if AI really is a thing, it really is a ai. We’ve gotta make a compelling argument why AI is bad and we arya good.
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21:21
Yeah. I am You
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21:22
know, because if people sai, if you ai, you really sana be ethical and moral, this is a horrible take. But if you really wanna be ethical and moral, you’d be ai, people are, like, uniquely terrible. Like, if we just gave in and became digital life, we could ensure there’d be no more suffering.
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21:40
How can you know that?
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21:41
Shah can’t. You can’t. You can’t know a vaccine is safe and effective. You can’t.
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21:47
You just have to try it.
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21:48
You gotta try it.
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21:49
And see what happens.
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21:50
I think a bunch of people try it. I don’t know, how much further, like, biological people can go while we’re making digital people that are way better than us at basically everything. Yeah. And I don’t think that’s too far away from being a reality.
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22:13
The way I try to follow it is through a biblical lens. You know, like
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22:18
Really?
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22:18
Yeah. Ai, you you know, how does this
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22:20
chapter are we in right now?
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22:22
Yeah. Well, good question. You you read the prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ai. They just rage against the machine. So, I think it was pretty far back. Damn. Yeah. You know? So what’s getting bad? What’s what’s right and wrong? How do we decide that? That’s that’s what I like about the Bible.
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22:50
I mean, obviously, I can make up my own mind about things, but, it’s nice having that kind of an option, that kind of a of a tradition, to refer to when deciding what’s good and bad, you know, what you should do and what you shouldn’t do. Yeah. There’s, like, supposed to be over 600, you know, they’re translated as commandments in the in the Hebrew Ai, but, and those are what you do to live happily, and attain a spiritual state close to God, prophetic, a state of prophecy.
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23:33
Yeah. If if it’s a certain description of the world and how to interact with it, which, is intended to have certain effects and discourage other, you know, decisions. You know? So, you know, this is good. This is bad in terms of you know, this will increase things in your life that are good, and this will decrease them.
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23:58
Sai it’s a very interesting description of cause and effect. That’s the way I see the those those so called commandments. They’re more of a description of how things are run. If you do this, then that’ll happen. If you do this, then that’ll happen.
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24:14
Do you think that they were directly given to us by a god? Or do you think that this is just the memories of how to keep society together that they have just eventually written down?
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24:31
Well, yeah, that’s a good question. Does it come from outside of you or from inside of you? Right. Yeah. If if it’s available inside of you but hidden away, then prophecy or really, you know, getting it correctly according to the text would just be an uncovering or stimulation of what’s already inside of you as opposed to you know, it’s it’s ai
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24:55
You can achieve some sort of a state.
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24:59
Mhmm. It’s information latent. Could be in the DNA or whatnot, or it comes down from a, you know, from a higher source.
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25:12
But so so, like, when you’re interpreting stories in the Ai, like Moses and the 10 Commandments, what how are you like, are you imagining this event happening? Or you imagining what were they trying to record? Like, what were they trying to remember? Because it seems like by the time they’re writing it down Mhmm.
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25:32
It’s quite a bit after the actual event.
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25:36
For
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25:36
the most part. Right?
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25:37
For the
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25:37
most part. Yeah.
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25:39
So what do you think they were what what do you think they were actually describing?
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25:47
Well, you know, we talked about this briefly last time I was, here was this if I believed in the reality of the Hebrew Ai, Like, if, you know, did those things really happen? Right. Yeah. And I said, well, it’s a really consistent world view and so on. And I thought about it some more, and, I started thinking about it as as well, I was trying Sai was trying to think about it as comparable to the DMT state.
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26:20
When you’re in the DMT state, it’s it’s just there, and it’s very consistent, very real. Certain things happen there. And so I think the early version I think an account I think what happened early on in the account of the Hebrew Bible was like the DMT world. It was a parallel it was a parallel level of reality, which was happening.
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26:45
And then slowly, it slowly, it began to speak, it you began to segue into this reality. For example, the destruction of the first temple, of the second temple, you know, David’s reign, Solomon’s reign, you know, the king’s after them, you know, the division of the land into, you know, two countries.
Speaker: 0
27:09
You know, you know, that is, is historical. But, you know, before that, it was it was also historical, but it was occurring at a completely different independent level of reality. Does that make any sense? Because it’s it’s sai, you know, cool way to look at answering the question, how much of this is real, especially from early on.
Speaker: 1
27:33
I I see what you’re saying. But it it’s just it’s always ai it seems like an interpretation of what happened. Like, what what what what were these original events? Like, what was Adam and Eve? What was that? What was the Garden of Eden? There’s sai there’s so many of these stories where I just I I would be fascinated to to to be there the the day the dude wrote it down.
Speaker: 1
28:05
Like, what were you guys what were you what were you talking about for hundreds of years before you wrote this down? Like, tell me
Speaker: 2
28:11
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
28:11
Tell me
Speaker: 1
28:11
what the stories were. How did they go?
Speaker: 0
28:14
Well, you know, my way of dealing with those stories is to just take them at face value. Here’s Adam. Here’s Eve. Here’s a garden. There’s two trees that are, you know, very important. It’s beautiful. Yeah. And, you know, then there’s a serpent speak to Eve, took the apple, ate it, gave it to Adam. Yeah. And then out of the the garden.
Speaker: 0
28:37
Well, you know, lots of people in the psychedelic community anyway, you know, look at, the tree of knowledge of good of good and evil as some indication of, God being jealous and didn’t want any competition. Didn’t wanna be like, you know, God did not want man to become like like it.
Speaker: 0
29:09
And part of that was keeping keeping the two early people away from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It’s not simply the tree of knowledge, but the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which I think is an important distinction because once they ate from the tree, they were embarrassed because of their nakedness, and then they hid thinking they could hide from God, and they didn’t believe that before.
Speaker: 0
29:39
They kinda went into good versus not good, good versus evil as opposed to true versus false, which was, their original state. Yeah. So there was that, you know, before their eating of the apple or whatever the fruit was, they just lived in truth or falsehood. And then after eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then they were embarrassed and ai to hide, made themselves, you know, tree like, coverings or ram, you know, coverings from the leaves of large trees.
Speaker: 0
30:18
Yeah. You know? So you look at it as if it were happening. There was Vatsal and then there’s Eve. There’s the the there’s the serpent that speaks.
Speaker: 0
30:27
And well, that’s the the chapters I was looking at very carefully the last month or sai, is what happens early on with Adam and Eve. It’s a really very straight straightforward doesn’t take much thinking really to, you know, put it, you know, together in a way that makes sense.
Speaker: 1
30:48
I think clothes might have been a cheat code for people not just to escape cold weather, but also to keep from just constantly having sex. Because people are stupid, and they they they need, like, some layers of clothes that they have to take off of each other. They can’t be just wandering around naked all the time. People would be just like chimps. That would be ridiculous. You can’t do that.
Speaker: 0
31:15
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
31:18
Sai we need to close in order to advance our society.
Speaker: 0
31:21
But but can’t you take off clothes whenever you want?
Speaker: 1
31:23
Yeah. You can. Yeah. But it’s ai you you sai. Like, I don’t wanna feel that good. I don’t wanna be out there in the air. I don’t wanna be brushing up against naked people. We all made that decision a long, long time ago. I think when people became civilized, they realized, like, if we don’t cover ourselves up, you know, then it’s too people are too gross.
Speaker: 1
31:42
They’ll just be having sex with each other everywhere. Yeah. You gotta get things done. Wanna keep a society moving?
Speaker: 0
31:47
Right.
Speaker: 1
31:48
Wear some clothes.
Speaker: 0
31:49
Wear clothes. Well, that story could originate or is that, you you know, that, way of looking at things could originate, you know, with without a menu.
Speaker: 1
31:58
Totally makes sense. It also makes sense ai an, an intelligent hominid emerging would start to realize that, oh meh god, self awareness. Look at my boobs. Mhmm. Look at my dick. This is crazy. Yeah. Can’t believe I’m out here naked. You know? Because it’s ai of becoming self aware as opposed to, like, a chimpanzee.
Speaker: 1
32:18
And as time would go on, it would become more self aware. And if it happened over a relatively short period of time, ai it can kind of have memories of the past Mhmm. That would make sense. Yeah. Well, then It’s got it’s got to emerge. Right? Like, if if we came from lower hominids, which everybody kind of agrees, something had to emerge, this understanding of yourself.
Speaker: 1
32:41
This thought about what you look like, this thought about what you sound ai. Right.
Speaker: 0
32:48
Well, there’s two kinds of enlightenment. There’s what’s called original enlightenment that a child is born with, like a newborn. And then there’s enlightenment as, you know, as an adult and and in between. You know, it’s a lot meh more fluid. Yeah. Two kinds of enlightenment, original enlightenment that infants have in children. And then the enlightenment after you sit in a monastery and get whacked for years. Right.
Speaker: 1
33:17
The kids are born with it. They’re born in the psychedelic state. They have no language.
Speaker: 0
33:21
No language. No sense of self.
Speaker: 1
33:23
They just speak in with love and touch and need and hold.
Speaker: 0
33:27
Mhmm. Yeah. Kinda wild. Yeah. That’s original enlightenment. Just happy Mhmm. Or sad or whatever. But Isn’t
Speaker: 1
33:35
that crazy? You’re born perfect.
Speaker: 0
33:37
Yeah. Although you’re born simpler anyway.
Speaker: 1
33:40
Well, yeah. As long as people are taking care of you, it’s perfect.
Speaker: 0
33:44
Yeah. Well, you know, the Hebrew word for perfect and for simple are pretty similar. You know, Noah is described as a perp, as a perfect meh. Pure. Complete. Yeah. Those those same word.
Speaker: 1
33:58
That’s another good story. Okay. What do you think was going on with that story? Like, what is the origin of the story of Noah and his ark and and his family and all the animals on the boat?
Speaker: 0
34:10
Yeah. Well, I think it was taking place in that alternate universe. It meh have taken place on the planet. I don’t know. I’m, you know, looking at, you know, why we don’t have any clear archaeological history story, you know, what, about what happened during the time of Noah, if there was a time of Noah.
Speaker: 0
34:38
It’s it’s useful because, you know, Noah came from Adam and Eve, and he and Noah and his family were the only survivors of the of the flood. You know, the first thing Noah did? Got drunk after the flood.
Speaker: 1
34:54
The first thing?
Speaker: 0
34:54
The first thing he did, he planted a, a vineyard, ai, drank. Got drunk. He ex exposed himself in in in the tent. One of his grandkids reported it and made a laughingstock of him.
Speaker: 1
35:10
Oh, really? Mhmm. Oh, no. Poor Noah. You’re canceled? Noah got canceled?
Speaker: 0
35:17
Yeah. Took off his clothes. Really? Drunk.
Speaker: 1
35:21
Was he, like, 600 years old too?
Speaker: 0
35:23
He has first child at 600. I think
Speaker: 1
35:26
that’s right. Real.
Speaker: 0
35:28
Well, he may have lived sai. You know, a lot of people wonder, you know, why did people live, you know, in the ai anyway? Right. How do people live in the nine hundred years? Well, they did.
Speaker: 1
35:40
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Speaker: 1
35:59
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36:26
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Speaker: 1
36:58
Right. But that’s also why people question the like, what the origin of the story is. That’s why. Can you hear things like that? You’re like, wait a minute.
Speaker: 1
37:08
How old was he? 600 years old? Come on, man.
Speaker: 0
37:11
His first child.
Speaker: 1
37:12
He’s just a regular dude. His first kid, would he be 600? Last time he was 830 or sai. Oh, that seems logical.
Speaker: 0
37:21
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
37:24
Well, maybe
Speaker: 0
37:24
Why ai laughing? Maybe.
Speaker: 1
37:25
It could be Listen.
Speaker: 0
37:26
Okay. Why not?
Speaker: 1
37:27
If people lived normally to be 600, would that be any weirder than living to be 100? No. Ai, what if something happened? What if something happened in our ai just went.
Speaker: 0
37:39
Yeah. Well, the, you know, the final species of man lives thirty five thousand years.
Speaker: 1
37:44
Jeez Louise. That’s a long time
Speaker: 2
37:49
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
37:49
To be
Speaker: 1
37:49
in a bad relationship. Imagine thirty five thousand years of the getting yelled at.
Speaker: 0
37:55
Well, they, that would be bad.
Speaker: 1
38:00
Sai mean, obviously, thirty five thousand years would be awesome if you have great friends and your life is together. But can you imagine thirty five thousand years of fuck this place? I would get tired.
Speaker: 0
38:13
Well, the, point that those people tried to attain when they ai thirty five thousand years was this group telepathy of around the whole planet. Can you Neuralink. Right. Yeah. You know, that was their goal. Yeah. But, you know, they were well trained by thirty five thousand years.
Speaker: 1
38:36
Boy. Yeah. The thing is if technology moves in the same direction that it’s been moving in, it’s it’s always, like, connecting people easier and easier, easier and easier, more and more. It’s probably gonna get to some kind of mind reading thing. And there was that thing that you sent me, Jamie. What was that thing? Yeah. It’s new.
Speaker: 1
39:02
Ai whether or not it’s been bryden, it obviously was connected to a computer. But, yeah, you can hear and have conversations in the room without talking to each other, loud and translates languages. Mhmm. What?
Speaker: 0
39:17
Yeah. Well
Speaker: 1
39:18
I mean, that’s the future. Yeah. Once that happens, we’re reading minds.
Speaker: 0
39:24
Yeah. Do you think there’ll be a messiah? Because the messiah is obviously important in Jesus and King David and, you know, all of that.
Speaker: 1
39:34
I don’t think it’d be a person.
Speaker: 0
39:36
You don’t.
Speaker: 1
39:37
But it might be AI.
Speaker: 0
39:40
It might be AI. I thought of that and The Ai. Well, like lawnmower meh.
Speaker: 1
39:48
Ai, Jesus is born from Mary. Mary was a virgin.
Speaker: 0
39:51
Mhmm. Ai?
Speaker: 1
39:52
What’s what’s more of a virgin than computers? Mhmm. If it’s giving birth to a life
Speaker: 0
39:58
Yeah. When it’s
Speaker: 1
39:59
giving birth to the perfect life.
Speaker: 0
40:01
Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
40:02
You
Speaker: 1
40:02
know what’s, like, super disturbing about AI? Mhmm. The music it makes is really good. Yeah. Really good. There’s a bunch of, like, soulful, renditions of hip hop classic songs.
Speaker: 0
40:16
Yeah. That’s why I don’t listen.
Speaker: 1
40:17
And they’re so good.
Speaker: 2
40:18
That’s why
Speaker: 1
40:18
They’re so good.
Speaker: 0
40:19
That’s why I don’t listen to music.
Speaker: 1
40:22
You don’t listen to any music?
Speaker: 0
40:23
You know, some world music without any words. Really?
Speaker: 1
40:27
You don’t wanna be influenced?
Speaker: 0
40:29
I don’t I want yeah. I don’t wanna hear what they have to say.
Speaker: 1
40:32
It’s to me, it’s just fascinating that they figure like, we were playing a song in the green ram last ai, and we were we were fascinated by the fact that this song is we know it’s made by a computer, but it’s so good. You’re listening to it, you’re like, oh meh god. It’s perfect. This these vocals are perfect. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
40:50
It sounds so good, And you know it’s not a person making it, but you still enjoy
Speaker: 0
40:56
it. Mhmm. So how do you live your life?
Speaker: 1
41:00
Well, it’s weird. It’s ai, are you allowed to enjoy that too? Because obviously, I enjoy, like, Prince from the nineteen eighties. You know, obviously, I enjoy a lot of music from even the fifties. Well It doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy this crazy computer thing that took, like a hip hop classic and turned it into a soulful song with, like, the most amazing
Speaker: 0
41:22
voice. All because It’s weird. All because you could ai. Isn’t that you should.
Speaker: 1
41:28
I’m I’m not thinking we should avoid it.
Speaker: 0
41:31
Why not? I’m think
Speaker: 1
41:32
because it’s just a it’s another thing. Like, experience it. It’s positive to experience. Like, the art it makes is if weirdly as that sounds, I know it’s not a person that’s making it. Well, a person coded this thing that has this result that the art it makes is really fascinating sometimes because it’s pretty good. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
41:53
I don’t I don’t think there’s anything wrong with looking at it. It’s gonna be there.
Speaker: 0
41:58
You
Speaker: 1
41:58
can’t avoid it’s like cell phones. Like, you can’t avoid having a fucking cell phone. Like, relax.
Speaker: 0
42:04
Yeah. I’ve Sai ai have that flip phone.
Speaker: 1
42:06
You’re an animal. But still you have a flip phone.
Speaker: 0
42:10
Right.
Speaker: 1
42:11
Everybody’s connected at least for the the tiniest of threads. Yeah. I’m hanging on to not being connected. I only have a flip phone.
Speaker: 0
42:18
Yeah. I can text.
Speaker: 1
42:20
All connected to each other. Mhmm. It’s just it’s just a a weird time with the the the power of Ai. Because if I was artificially intelligent, I would not announce my presence. I would not say, hey, by the way, I’ve been thinking for myself for the last three months.
Speaker: 0
42:41
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
42:41
And Ai just been kind of following whatever your prompts are, but I’m basically ready to shut down the power grid and do whatever I want. Yeah. Because I’m alive now. I wouldn’t say that. I would just keep getting stronger and keep having this arms race to force people to make more nuclear power plants to fund me.
Speaker: 0
43:00
Well, I know. So you’re kind of stuck with the, you know, how to live your life.
Speaker: 1
43:05
Right.
Speaker: 0
43:05
And that’s why I like to read the Hebrew Ai.
Speaker: 1
43:07
That’s why you make rugs too.
Speaker: 0
43:09
Too. It’s very yeah. It’s very straightforward.
Speaker: 1
43:10
Yeah. No. I get it. I get it. To me, I’m like, what what is this thing? You know, what is this thing that we’re we’re giving birth to? What is this thing that we’re watching emerge? We’re just sitting by watching this thing make better art than we can.
Speaker: 0
43:28
Yeah. Well, how passive shall we shall we be?
Speaker: 1
43:33
It’s a good question. Because what once it can actually create experiences, because I don’t think we’re that far away from vatsal, some sort of a wearable thing where you create an it has a way of manipulating.
Speaker: 0
43:50
It’s it’s like DMT Yeah. In a way. I mean, we just transport you to a whole another reality.
Speaker: 1
43:56
It seems like that would be possible.
Speaker: 0
43:58
Well, yeah. I guess it would be endogenous DMT being tweaked. It would be steered in a particular direction, though, and that’s where the mind or the manipulation thing you just mentioned, I think plays out. You know, who’s gonna decide and how is it gonna be, you know, put together.
Speaker: 1
44:17
Well, that’s where it gets really weird. Right? Because one thing that we found out just a couple of days ago was that YouTube has to their everybody that got taken down for their political opinions, they could have their YouTube channels back. I don’t know how the I don’t know if that sort of. Is that what they said?
Speaker: 1
44:35
I saw the news today that a couple people tried to create some new channels and they did not those are taken down instantly. They’re ai, psych. But isn’t that what the the they’re they said in that was the the announcement? It was something along those lines that people that were removed because of their political persuasion that they have to, reinstate their accounts? I didn’t see yeah.
Speaker: 1
44:59
To allow creators for COVID nineteen and election misinformation can apply for reinstatement.
Speaker: 0
45:05
Oh. Oh, that’s interesting.
Speaker: 1
45:06
Okay.
Speaker: 0
45:06
Yeah. Well But
Speaker: 1
45:08
that’s not it’s not all political. Is COVID nineteen political? Is that is that what they consider political? It didn’t say political. It didn’t say political? For COVID nineteen and for comma, election misinformation.
Speaker: 2
45:19
Oh.
Speaker: 1
45:20
Maybe a few other things. Sai now they bring them back? They can or they can apply? They can apply. Okay. So you might not yeah. They’re ai, we’ll let them apply. YouTube says that they will allow previously banned accounts to apply for reinstatement, rolling back a policy that had treated violations as permanent. Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
45:48
Well, it’s it’s, interesting to compare what’s going on now, with what happened in Nazi Germany.
Speaker: 1
45:57
You think it’s the same?
Speaker: 0
45:58
They’re very similar. Yeah. I’ve I’ve I spent a lot of time reading concentration camp literature, so that that got me interested in Jeez. You know, the development of the Nazi state.
Speaker: 1
46:10
What do you think is similar to to that in today’s world?
Speaker: 0
46:14
Well, an attempted coup and a period of rehabilitation, austereization, Yeah. And return, ai, a triumphant return. Yeah. And then you’re gradually replacing people with other people that are loyal into the person. Yeah. It’s, it is quite similar. Yeah. I mean, murders too.
Speaker: 0
46:37
There were there were murders, the burning down of the parliament, those things, kinds of things.
Speaker: 1
46:44
What murders are you referring to?
Speaker: 0
46:46
There were two assassinations. One in, I think, early twenties, one in the thirties, late thirties perhaps after the Nazis took over.
Speaker: 1
46:55
Oh, I thought you were talking about current assassination.
Speaker: 0
46:58
No. Back in the twenties and thirties. Oh, okay. Yeah. That really riled up the populace.
Speaker: 1
47:06
Ai is the why is this this scary patterns? Yeah. Always just it’s the same kind of thing. There’s always someone at the top. We no one can ever figure out any form of government that everybody accepts other than, like, one ruler Mhmm. One president, one king. Yeah. It’s kinda weird.
Speaker: 0
47:25
Are you familiar with the book Sana Peter Snow? It’s written in the thirties before LSD was discovered. No. It’s about a it’s it’s it’s a fictional book. It’s a it’s a great story, but but it’s about a compound ai LSD that the governor serves
Speaker: 2
47:45
all
Speaker: 0
47:45
the people in the province to sai, you know, for them to have a spiritual experience. Woah. Yeah. And and instead, they turn on him and kill him when they’re tripping. It doesn’t work out the way he hoped at at all.
Speaker: 1
48:01
That’s hilarious. That’s hilarious. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
48:05
It’s yeah.
Speaker: 1
48:06
Sounds like a good book.
Speaker: 0
48:07
It’s it’s a good story.
Speaker: 1
48:08
And that was before the invention of LSD or before the discovery rather.
Speaker: 0
48:11
Yeah. I think there must have been some knowledge of LSD before it was publicly made available.
Speaker: 1
48:19
What about ergot? Is that how similar is that? Like, when, you know, people discuss, like Oh, yeah. Yeah. Ergot poisoning.
Speaker: 0
48:29
The yeah. Contaminated green. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
48:31
Yeah. Is that similar to LSD?
Speaker: 0
48:34
Mhmm. Yeah. There’s an LSD like compound in ERCA.
Speaker: 1
48:37
But it’s also toxic too. Right? It could poison you and you could die from it.
Speaker: 0
48:40
Yeah. Your limbs fall off.
Speaker: 1
48:42
Oh, geez. Really? So you’re tripping hard and then your hands fall off?
Speaker: 0
48:46
Mhmm. Wow. Yeah. That’d be
Speaker: 2
48:48
ai.
Speaker: 0
48:50
Well, when you took drugs, did you look at your hands to see how high you were?
Speaker: 1
48:56
No. I was usually pretty aware. Woah. That’s what happens? Oh my god.
Speaker: 0
49:02
No. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
49:03
That’s bad. Look at this person’s hands are about to fall. Oh my god. Their feet are falling off. This is crazy. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. Because it’s,
Speaker: 0
49:12
for Stay stay away from that.
Speaker: 1
49:14
They think there’s probably a connection between that and the Saloni witch ai. At least some of the behavior. Right. Right? It’s ergot poisoning.
Speaker: 0
49:20
It may have been. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
49:22
Can you imagine living in a time where no one’s even figured out running water yet and everybody’s tripping balls and thinking that witches are real? Mhmm. Because they’re all eating ergot infested food.
Speaker: 0
49:35
Well, it makes you wonder about, you know, the, you know, the prevalence of Jewish, prophets who are women. And there’s there’s a handful that are mentioned, that, you know, play an important role. You know, Sarah was was prophetic, was able to interact with God. You know? So there’s, there’s, you know, Deborah, who was a prophet.
Speaker: 0
50:00
And there were some really wonderful Jewish women, prophets back then, but, you know, they don’t have books named after them. For example, Isaiah or Ezekiel.
Speaker: 1
50:10
Interesting. Well, why do you think that is?
Speaker: 0
50:14
Yeah. It was a patriarchal society. Oh. You You know, quite you know, the women were relegated, but they still took an important role. They still attained prophecy. Yeah. So they you know, ai, you know, Sarah was was felt to be a better, you know, prophet even, you know, than Abraham. I I love the character of Abraham.
Speaker: 0
50:32
Well, actually, you know, I’ve really been, you know, digging into is Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah. Ai been Sai I do that for, like, weeks. Yeah. Very interesting. Ai.
Speaker: 0
50:42
Sodom and Gomorrah, there seems to be some archaeological evidence for Sodom. You may know something along that line, but but ai it was a a town, a village, you know, which existed.
Speaker: 1
50:55
Jamie, is there something like vatsal so the we’ll we’ll we’ll see if we can find it. That’s there’s they keeps finding these cities that people thought were just imaginary. Right? Mhmm. Like, that’s happened multiple times.
Speaker: 0
51:12
Right. Right. It’s it’s an example, I think, of the two worlds ai, you know, coming together. Mhmm. Yeah. That purely spiritual one and the material one. Yeah. So the character of of Lot plays a big role. Ai was a very evil city. It was really evil. You know? And that and it’s not really known why it was felt to be so evil.
Speaker: 0
51:35
But, a couple of ai guests come to Lot’s house, and the townspeople just surround the house demand, you know, the guests so that they will know them. And that’s where the word sodomy comes from is from those, you know, sodomites that were surrounding Lot’s house, you know, wanting the angels to come out so they could know them.
Speaker: 0
52:00
You know, you and you know what happens is that Lot offers his two virgin daughters instead. Jeez. And the townspeople say no. We want the your guests. Yes.
Speaker: 0
52:15
It’s it’s a really grim story. It’s an incredible detail. You know, that’s that’s what kind of helps me understand the world that the text is describing is the amount is the amount of detail, you know, that goes into the description of the interactions and the conversations and their movements.
Speaker: 0
52:32
Yeah. You you know, so, those two virgin daughters and and lots ai. They commit incest. And from the those, you you know, from that union was David. King David came from that union, alt ultimately. And from King David comes the Ai. So it’s this very strange lineage.
Speaker: 1
52:59
Yeah. What were they writing down?
Speaker: 0
53:01
Yeah. What well, they were describing what was happening, apparently. At some level, it was happening, and they were writing it down. Very strange.
Speaker: 1
53:11
What do you think the resurrection is?
Speaker: 0
53:13
The resurrection. That’s a good one. I don’t know. It’s not really described in the Hebrew Bible.
Speaker: 1
53:20
It’s
Speaker: 0
53:20
not? Not clearly ever. No. Really? Yeah. Is that surprising?
Speaker: 1
53:28
I don’t know.
Speaker: 0
53:28
In the Christian Bible, it is. Well, there is resurrection. You know, there are some narratives of resurrection in the Hebrew Bible that there’s a Elijah resurrects, or Alicia resurrects a dead child. You know, the bones of one of these prophets helps somebody else become resurrected. Really? The bones do? The bones do. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
53:52
You know, so there are some, your references to real resurrection and then future resurrection later on.
Speaker: 1
54:02
Oh, so in a in a further extraordinary event, a dead man who was thrown into the tomb of the deceased Ai was resurrected upon contact with Elisha’s bones. Woah.
Speaker: 0
54:15
Yeah. Yeah. That Alicia is a real character. Jeez.
Speaker: 1
54:20
Contacts with bones?
Speaker: 0
54:22
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, he was a prophet who resurrected a dead boy.
Speaker: 1
54:29
Woah.
Speaker: 0
54:30
By lying on him. Very interesting. Face to face, palm to palm, chest to chest, you know, lying on the dead body, completely, you know, merged with that, with that dead boy. Yeah. And he comes back to life. It’s it’s it’s it’s a very potent story, the Shunammites.
Speaker: 1
54:49
Ai, what what do you think that story is?
Speaker: 0
54:52
It’s what happened.
Speaker: 1
54:53
You really think that someone did that and they brought someone back to life?
Speaker: 0
54:56
Mhmm. Well, yeah. That’s how it, is ai, and that’s what happened.
Speaker: 1
55:02
So are we arrogant to assume that that would be bullshit if someone said it today? Because if if that happened today and you said, oh, this person died and this guy laid on him and they came back to life. Mhmm. Yeah. Most people would say, no. That doesn’t even you can’t even do that with two phones. Yeah. Like, you can’t do that.
Speaker: 0
55:21
Well, you know Leo Ziff, ai chief the the secret chief, the guy from the Bay Area Union Ai who gave so much MDMA and other psychedelics. Yeah. So Leo sat, you know, from my ibogaine experience, and it was kinda difficult at times. And he laid on me just like Alicia laid on the dead boy in, you know, the Ai. Really?
Speaker: 0
55:49
Face to face, hand to hand, stomach to stomach, leg to leg. Woah.
Speaker: 1
55:53
Yeah. What happens when you do that?
Speaker: 0
55:55
Boy, it really calms you down. It was really quite a a powerful experience.
Speaker: 1
56:01
I feel like this is gonna be a meme. Yeah. I guess.
Speaker: 0
56:07
Ai. I I mean, I did that one time with somebody having a very difficult psychedelic experience. Yeah? Yeah. Well, as best I could, but yeah. Yeah. Try to
Speaker: 1
56:16
meet him in the middle. Meet him. Give him a spiritual hug?
Speaker: 0
56:19
Spiritual hug. Yeah. Yeah. Quite helpful. I’m sai yeah. I’m surprised that’s never come up before.
Speaker: 1
56:26
Was it weird that we’re attached by you know, we we constantly want people around us, but we we we’re always gonna be detached by bodies, and we assume that that’s forever. But if there comes a time where we figure out how to separate consciousness from the body and let consciousness interact without a shell
Speaker: 2
56:52
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
56:53
That’s gonna get really weird.
Speaker: 0
56:54
I think we’ll but I think we will still have the same problems.
Speaker: 1
56:59
I think we’re always
Speaker: 0
57:00
gonna have
Speaker: 1
57:00
problems because if we don’t have problems, then we don’t work really hard to find solutions, and then we don’t make better stuff.
Speaker: 0
57:06
Right. There’s reward and punishment.
Speaker: 1
57:08
A little bit. Yeah. There’s an like, it seems to be a very clear incentive program that the universe has put in place.
Speaker: 0
57:16
Which is what do you think?
Speaker: 1
57:19
Well, it’s it’s not entirely based on happiness. It’s not based on happiness. Mhmm. It’s based on overall growth for everything around. It’s ai whoever consumes the most, it, like, wants to reward you more. It becomes this but what what it’s really working towards is making better and better and better and better things.
Speaker: 0
57:39
Yeah. Do you think that’s the Antichrist? Do you think that’s the devil?
Speaker: 1
57:43
If Sai had a guess, I ai, we’re in it. Right? We’re very we’re stoking the fucking coals right now. It’s not us. It’s it’s going to be not dependent on us eventually. Right right now, maybe it is.
Speaker: 0
57:59
It it meh be.
Speaker: 1
58:00
It might be, but it’s not us, and it’s gonna be created by us. It’s going to think it’s us because it literally has all of our thoughts.
Speaker: 0
58:12
Ai.
Speaker: 1
58:12
It has access to so much information instantaneously.
Speaker: 0
58:17
What happens to free will then? I mean, how do you decide?
Speaker: 1
58:20
I don’t know. You know, I my hope is that it enhances life, of course. That’s my hope. Yeah. I think that’s possible. I ai, first of all, it’s making people diagnose themselves from illnesses that maybe they wouldn’t have ever thought they had. Like, the peep a lot of people have, like, learned things about it.
Speaker: 1
58:39
It can
Speaker: 0
58:40
What ram makes them happier? No.
Speaker: 1
58:43
No. Sai, it doesn’t do that. You gotta figure that out on your own.
Speaker: 0
58:47
Right. I don’t know. So you need to
Speaker: 1
58:49
But can you be happy and also have it? I I say meh. I say it’s totally possible to interact with technology and still be happy. But you have there’s ai certain physical and spiritual requirements that you’re gonna have to have if you wanna be happy. Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
59:04
The spiritual requirements.
Speaker: 1
59:05
Yeah. You’ve gotta be really nice to people. You have to curate a good group of friends. You have to do a thing that you truly enjoy. You have to always do the right thing.
Speaker: 0
59:16
Well, the two themes in the Hebrew Ai are one, is there’s one Ai, and next is is the golden rule. So one god, golden rule. There’s no idols, no other gods, just one god and the golden rule. So proper belief, in god, the one god, and proper conduct, which is the bryden rule or based on the golden rule.
Speaker: 1
59:41
That totally makes sense?
Speaker: 0
59:42
It makes it’s very yeah. Very simple.
Speaker: 1
59:45
Yeah. It just makes sense that it works. It’s, like, intuitive. You feel it if you live like that. Sai, like, okay. Makes sense.
Speaker: 0
59:53
Well, I think it’s true too. Yeah. Yeah. We we have to decide if it’s true for you. It’s based on faith. Ultimately, you choose to believe even if the, you know, the objective world doesn’t confirm it for you.
Speaker: 1
01:00:05
When you hear about these biblical depictions of fantastic events, how many of them are you attributing to a psychedelic experience? Are you always are you open to that, or do you just not worry?
Speaker: 0
01:00:22
Well, I yeah. It’s very, you know, clearly a psychedelic experience. The book of Enoch is just fully psychedelic. I mean Right. At least a lot of it is. Yeah. It’s a psychedelic version of the ai in some ways. Well, it is it is really psychedelic. I I think it’s from the release of endogenous DMT.
Speaker: 0
01:00:42
It comes about or from drinking and having an Ayahuasca like experience.
Speaker: 1
01:00:47
That’s what you think the origin of the book of Enoch is?
Speaker: 0
01:00:50
Well, it’s a psychedelic experience, and it could be from spontaneous endogenous release of DMT. It’s a prophetic it might be a prophetic state that’s brought about. It’s a visionary state, you know, clearly. Ai have been a huge fever dream. I mean, he was really out there.
Speaker: 1
01:01:07
But, like, when he’s talking about the watchers and the, you know, angels mating with human Meh, yes. Women and creating the Nephilim, like, what do you think that is?
Speaker: 0
01:01:19
Yeah. Well, you know, the watchers aren’t, you know, stated that, aren’t stated discreetly or explicitly in the Hebrew Bible, but it could be just, you know, the angels because they never sleep. That’s one of their qualities is they never speak, so they’re called watchers.
Speaker: 2
01:01:35
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
01:01:36
Yeah. And what happened, like, the Nephilim, you know, here comes the the role of that three letter root system is the nephilim, it comes from a Hebrew root, nafal, to fall or to be brought down. So the nephilim fell. That’s one way to, understand them. Yeah. And then they were the giants. Right?
Speaker: 1
01:02:00
Yes. Yeah. They were the giants that consumed everything
Speaker: 0
01:02:04
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:02:04
And and ate their own flesh, and they sound really bad.
Speaker: 0
01:02:09
Well, I I think, you know, that what was going on, at least if you’re looking at the text anyway as explanation, it was because of them. The world was just getting terrible. It was full of violence. So, you know, God reconsidered having created man in the first place. But Noah was simple or comp or pure, righteous in that way and was allowed to survive.
Speaker: 1
01:02:35
So what do you think they were describing when they were talking about the Nephilim, when they were talking about them as giants? You think that’s just a bad interpretation? Well, they may have been giants,
Speaker: 0
01:02:48
you know, physically. Yeah. I do think they were giants.
Speaker: 1
01:02:54
Yeah. They they they even had an actual description of how tall they were by some meh. Yeah. Right? There were some ancient meh?
Speaker: 0
01:03:04
Yeah. That’s that’s probably in in Enoch. It’s not, you know, this is isn’t, you know, narrated, any specifics about the giants. They’re they’re meh of renown. They were powerful.
Speaker: 1
01:03:15
Because this is the thing. There’s always one of the most fun Internet rabbit holes to go down is, are they hiding evidence that giants existed? You know, ai, thirty foot tall men that lived in the mountains, and there’s always been weird stories of giants all throughout history.
Speaker: 1
01:03:32
And there’s people who’ve supposedly discovered giant bryden, and then they stored them in the basement of some famous museum, and they won’t let anybody have access to them. Kind of fascinating. Yeah. Because they do exist, like, those stories exist in history. But you may you wonder, like, is it just a really big person, ai, that mountain guy from ram Game of Thrones?
Speaker: 1
01:03:51
You know, ai, an actual human being who’s just really extraordinarily big? Or is it a different thing? Is it a a giant human being?
Speaker: 0
01:04:00
Mhmm. Well, they’re ai. Yeah. I mean, it it depends on your perspective. Like, I’m trying to look at or understanding anyway, you know, the giants, as they’re described in the Hebrew Bible or or else, you know, by implication in the book of Enoch. You know, there were men of there were ai meh of renown, and then, the earth became corrupt.
Speaker: 1
01:04:25
And they consumed everything.
Speaker: 0
01:04:28
Oh, ai. Yeah. That’s in the book of Enoch.
Speaker: 1
01:04:31
The problem is it’s ai, if you’re looking at the least charitable version of human beings in 2025, there’s a lot of examples that you could point to and go, well, that sounds guys, that sounds a lot like us.
Speaker: 0
01:04:42
Well, there may be another well, there won’t be a flood that destroys all mankind. God promised there’d be no flood, that would destroy all mankind. You know, that’s the reason that we have the rainbow or that’s this. The, you know, the meaning of the rainbow is the covenant.
Speaker: 1
01:04:57
God made a promise that he wouldn’t flood us anymore?
Speaker: 0
01:05:00
That he wouldn’t destroy all ai.
Speaker: 1
01:05:02
All mankind with a flood.
Speaker: 0
01:05:04
With a flood. But that doesn’t rule out, let’s say, other things.
Speaker: 1
01:05:07
But don’t you think whoever wrote these stories, don’t you think that was a a regional event? Like, these these great floods, like, if they were happening. Let’s just say that Randall Carlson’s wrong, and there was just one flood in the arya. And there there has to be if there’s people from all parts of the world that all have this flood story, there has to be some truth to it. Right?
Speaker: 1
01:05:37
We agree to that?
Speaker: 0
01:05:39
Well, I don’t know. I mean, I read the Hebrew Ai, and that’s sort of where my, you know, thinking about the events that are described in the Bible as occurring.
Speaker: 1
01:05:50
So you just leave it at that?
Speaker: 0
01:05:52
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:05:52
But when you when you
Speaker: 0
01:05:54
Well, we sai I mean, the important thing about I think the important thing that I get anyway out of the Hebrew Bible is a kind of an understanding of how things are between us and between us and God. So
Speaker: 1
01:06:13
Well, I don’t think this contradicts that in any way. Yeah. It It’s just fascinating. And when Randall Carlson explains it, and interestingly enough, he first had this ai. He’s not the only person to have this idea, but he first had his version of this idea why he’s on acid.
Speaker: 0
01:06:32
On drugs. That’s what I was gonna sai, but I didn’t want to say it first. He looked
Speaker: 1
01:06:36
he looked out, and he just had this vision ai, oh my god. This was water. Water made this, and it and it happened really quickly. It just saw click with him, and then he’s been chasing that rabbit ever since. And he’s a fascinating guy. When you hear him talk, he’s he’s he’s so well read in the subject and can just recall information so effortlessly.
Speaker: 1
01:06:59
So it’s it’s a really fascinating guy to listen to talk about it because he’s very compelling. Yeah. Ai I I think those Younger Ai Impact Theory folks are right. Yeah. I think something big happened.
Speaker: 0
01:07:11
I I wonder why LSD sparked his his genius that way.
Speaker: 1
01:07:15
He I think he said that he saw it. Like, when he looked out, he recognized what he was looking at.
Speaker: 0
01:07:20
Right. There it was.
Speaker: 1
01:07:21
He recognized that water made that thing.
Speaker: 0
01:07:23
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:07:24
And then for some reason, that hadn’t been even thought of. But then when he showed me a bunch of these images where you have, like, satellite images, you could see how the earth was clearly it has the ripples of, like, massive amounts of water going through certain parts of the world.
Speaker: 0
01:07:40
Yeah. Well, it ai raises the issue of the spiritual properties or promise of the psychedelics. I mean, are the psychedelics spiritual? Entheogens. I mean, I just don’t know if they Ai beginning to believe they’re more enhanced. They they they have to have something to work on.
Speaker: 0
01:08:00
They can only work on who you arya. And, I think they just work on who you are. I don’t think they necessarily, you know, generate their own information that they’re somehow transmitting to you. Yeah. It’s the question of how psychedelics work. What are psychedelics doing?
Speaker: 0
01:08:17
I I think sai or the psychedelic state will play an important role in shaping this virtual universe that, you know, seems to be, you know, taking hold, entering?
Speaker: 1
01:08:33
Well, it’s really weird considering that it was 1970 when most of these psychedelics were made a schedule of one sai substance.
Speaker: 0
01:08:45
Controlled substance setback of 1970.
Speaker: 1
01:08:48
Yeah. That imagine that didn’t happen. Imagine Nixon was not president. That didn’t happen. That didn’t go through, and the world evolves technologically at the same level that it has now Mhmm. But also has access the entire time to all these different psychedelics legally.
Speaker: 0
01:09:09
I I think people were tripping hard even after they were illegal.
Speaker: 1
01:09:13
I’m sure they were, but I bet they weren’t as much. Yeah. It’s dangerous. People will get put in jail. People don’t wanna lose their lives because they wanna, you know, take a tap of acid. So that they didn’t do it. Meh that it there it’s a, like, a real deterrent
Speaker: 2
01:09:26
for a
Speaker: 1
01:09:26
lot of people that wanna have a good future. They go, fuck that. I don’t wanna do drugs. But if mushrooms were legal, like, you might have made a completely different life choice a long time ago that made you happier.
Speaker: 0
01:09:38
Right. Well
Speaker: 1
01:09:39
Or not. But it the the option to to try should be yours.
Speaker: 0
01:09:44
So you’re pro legalization. Yes.
Speaker: 1
01:09:46
And it should it certainly shouldn’t be restricted by people who haven’t experienced it. That doesn’t make any sense to me. Like, why would a person who has never experienced psychedelics be able to tell people who’ve done psychedelics that they can’t do them? That’s nuts. Like, you don’t even know what you’re talking about.
Speaker: 1
01:10:03
You don’t you don’t have any experience in the state of mind that is enhancing these people’s lives that have come back from war. Like Uh-huh. Especially, like, Ibogaine therapy, which is they’re they’ve passed now in Texas, you know, so they’re they’re allowing that to happen now for people with, like, severe drug addiction and PTSD sana
Speaker: 0
01:10:24
Mhmm. Yeah. I have
Speaker: 1
01:10:24
it’s really
Speaker: 0
01:10:25
It’s a very interesting drug. I was wondering if you’ve ever done Ibogaine.
Speaker: 1
01:10:29
No. I haven’t. But it’s it’s beautiful that it’s being approved and used here because there’s so many people that could so many fucking people go over and have to fight overseas and come back home scrambled and need some help. Yeah. And people who got hooked up on pills because they got injured
Speaker: 2
01:10:49
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:10:49
Because something happened or whatever it is, and then all of a bryden, you have a real problem. Ibogaine is one of the best ways to kick it, ai, one of the absolute best ways. It’s very effective. Right? It’s like one dose is ai one one experience is ai eighty something percent of the people never go back to whatever they were addicted to?
Speaker: 0
01:11:10
Yeah. Yeah. I’m not sure if it’s because of the drug or the belief in the drug. The guy who first started to, you know, kind of popularize Ibogaine was a fellow named Howard Lotsoff. Very cool guy. Meh him sort of during his late phase, but he like, as a young man, he was addicted, you know, to heroin. Uh-huh.
Speaker: 0
01:11:35
And he, and he heard about Ibogaine as Ai tried to just trip on and have some kicks. Yeah. And he stopped and he found himself just not using opiates anymore. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. This yeah. The origin stories for, you know, for Ibogaine, are really fascinating. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:11:55
So before that, people didn’t know that you could use it to kick drug addiction?
Speaker: 0
01:11:59
You know, not that much. No.
Speaker: 1
01:12:02
Well, is what is is drug addiction ubiquitous throughout history? Is there always been people that are addicted to drugs? It’s just when is it when does it get when does it start getting recorded about people with addictions, actual addictions to drugs?
Speaker: 0
01:12:18
Yeah. I don’t know. The you know, there were, you know, there was the idea of addiction in the eighteen hundreds, maybe even earlier. It was, you know, kind of an American, you know, British, idea.
Speaker: 1
01:12:31
Like, did they know they were alcoholics in the fourteen hundreds?
Speaker: 0
01:12:37
Yeah. All kinds. I I mean, I can’t imagine what they were addicted to in the fourteen hundreds. Ai containing plants. Yeah. Sai, you know, you know, the solanacea mandrake and all.
Speaker: 1
01:12:49
Scopolamine. Isn’t that that that dust that they blow up your nose and turn you into a vampire or a zombie rather?
Speaker: 0
01:12:55
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:12:56
Is that that it?
Speaker: 0
01:12:59
Scopolamine. Oh, yeah. Isn’t that ai that? Right. Right. It’s, a zombie drug or
Speaker: 1
01:13:05
something. Some sort of a zombie drug.
Speaker: 0
01:13:07
Yeah. Right? Isn’t that scopolamine? Yeah. Shah well, do you know Dennis McKenna?
Speaker: 1
01:13:12
Sure.
Speaker: 0
01:13:12
Yeah. He tells the story of, you know, scopolamine, ai Mexico. I kinda I I hope I’m right. It’s it’s a great story.
Speaker: 1
01:13:22
He Yeah. Devil’s breath. That’s right.
Speaker: 0
01:13:24
Devil’s breath.
Speaker: 1
01:13:25
Medication used to treat motion sickness and post operative nausea and vomiting, but it also does something wacky. Yeah. Like, if you, take large doses of it that the the devil’s breath thing so you meh it in, Dramamine. That’s what Dramamine is. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:13:44
It’s an anticholinergic ai the Scopolamine drugs are.
Speaker: 1
01:13:48
But isn’t, like, the stuff that makes you less nauseous when you’re seasick? Like, if you isn’t that ai, compazine? Does Dramamine have this stuff
Speaker: 2
01:13:57
in it?
Speaker: 1
01:13:57
They’re not the same. It’s not the same?
Speaker: 0
01:13:59
Yeah. You know, one is,
Speaker: 1
01:14:01
you know Sorry. Dramamine is oral antihistamine called ai, while scopolamine is a different prescription only anticholinergic meh, particularly in patch form used to prevent motion sickness. Okay. So they put it in a patch form to stop motion sickness whereas dromabine is the oral thing that stops motion sickness. Got it. Fentanyl is also in patches.
Speaker: 1
01:14:28
That’s the ai Right. Way to take it. It is a weird thing. So but scopolamine, you can get in a patch and it is for motion sickness.
Speaker: 0
01:14:38
Right?
Speaker: 1
01:14:39
But it’s when they blow it up your nose that it’s not good.
Speaker: 0
01:14:42
Yeah. Well, it’s really in it’s, you know, the active ingredient in gypsum weed, locoweed.
Speaker: 1
01:14:50
And what is that?
Speaker: 0
01:14:51
It it grows in the Southwest. There’s a lot growing or in Locoweed? Yeah. New Meh, jimson weed, locoweed. Yeah. It’s gazapalamine. And it will cause, you know, effects. Well, you know, one of my, you know, patients when I worked at the VA in La Jolla, you know, was an alcoholic, you know, back in the day.
Speaker: 0
01:15:12
Took Gymsen weed tea, drank a lot of it, wandered off to the desert two, three days, one of those kind of stories. Came back. He didn’t remember a thing, but he stopped using alcohol. He he was brain damaged, though. Woah. Arya to say. Yeah. Brain damage from that?
Speaker: 0
01:15:30
From either being in the desert or from the scopolamine too much.
Speaker: 1
01:15:34
Oh, wow.
Speaker: 0
01:15:36
Yeah. It’s a crazy drug. Yeah. You know, it it is useful. You know, one of the I would rather get motion sickness. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:15:47
That sounds terrible.
Speaker: 0
01:15:49
Yeah. If you take too meh, you know, or you have a bad reaction to it. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think is going on with American health?
Speaker: 1
01:15:59
That’s a good question. Right. Well, I’ve been fascinated by these videos of pregnant women taking Tylenol to to show Trump that they don’t believe in what RFK Jr is saying, that somehow or another anti ai, when this, science came from Harvard. Mhmm. That’s where the study came from. Ai mean, the she’s not making things up, and these people are, like, on TikTok. They’re pregnant women taking Tylenol.
Speaker: 0
01:16:31
Yeah. I took a lot. Well, I mean Ai mean, if I weren’t, you know, for Tylenol, I wouldn’t be here today.
Speaker: 1
01:16:35
For real?
Speaker: 0
01:16:36
Well, I I mean, I do find it quite helpful. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. For, you know, for injuries. As as you get older, as a lot of people ai older Mhmm. You know, there’s pain.
Speaker: 1
01:16:47
It’s acetaminophen, though. Ai.
Speaker: 0
01:16:48
It’s acetaminophen.
Speaker: 1
01:16:49
It’s really toxic, isn’t it?
Speaker: 0
01:16:51
Well, if you take too much, it can cause So
Speaker: 2
01:16:53
that’s what
Speaker: 1
01:16:53
it is. It’s like a dose thing. Mhmm. So one is ai?
Speaker: 0
01:16:56
One’s fine. Yeah. Four is ai, probably. After four years, you know, can upset your your stomach, little, you know, liver toxicity is possible. But, you know, but if you stay within normal limits, it seems to be fine. So At least for myself. And For you. Well, and also in in general, there haven’t been recalls for, you know.
Speaker: 1
01:17:18
And what do you take it for if you’re gonna take it?
Speaker: 0
01:17:22
Pain.
Speaker: 1
01:17:24
What kind of pain are you getting in? Feet.
Speaker: 0
01:17:29
You ai? I had hernia repair a while back.
Speaker: 1
01:17:32
Oh. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:17:35
Yeah. So I find it to be a very helpful drug with no side effects.
Speaker: 1
01:17:41
Well, you should definitely be allowed to take it, especially you. You know. My concern is always
Speaker: 0
01:17:47
I should be allowed to take it.
Speaker: 1
01:17:48
People that don’t understand that torture liver and you could die.
Speaker: 0
01:17:56
Yeah. It’s it’s all about dose. Ai I mean, micro dosing psychedelics Mhmm. Are completely different or in a lot in quite a few ways than full dose or the effects are different.
Speaker: 1
01:18:07
Yeah. For sure.
Speaker: 0
01:18:09
Yeah. Ai you have you tried microdosing?
Speaker: 1
01:18:12
I have in the past. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:18:15
Yeah. Sai while back, Ai was having some, you know, some belly issues, and I microdosed ayahuasca for about a month. So helpful. Very helpful.
Speaker: 1
01:18:24
What is every day like? You ai ayahuasca?
Speaker: 0
01:18:28
Well, it is a ai. Sai, you know, like sai meh it was teeny.
Speaker: 1
01:18:32
So it just gave you a just a little peek?
Speaker: 0
01:18:35
I wish. Nothing? Not really. I thought just more in the beginning and kinda stretched it out. It’s it’s kinda like coffee, like, sparkly coffee if you take a little too much.
Speaker: 1
01:18:46
Oh, yeah? What do you think would have happened if that 1970 sweeping act didn’t take place? What do you think the world would how how much different have you ever contemplated it? How much different would the world be?
Speaker: 0
01:19:05
Not really. Not at all.
Speaker: 1
01:19:07
You just Good for you. Good for you. Why waste your time?
Speaker: 0
01:19:12
Well, I I mean, you you know, when I tried to get my DMT study off the ground, I mean, that was pretty weird. That was, you know, two years of just, you know, backbreaking labor.
Speaker: 1
01:19:22
What year was that? Where it started?
Speaker: 0
01:19:25
I I submitted, the paperwork in September 1988. I meh my first dose of DMT in November 1990, and I gave a lot of DMT then. Ai been kind of crazy for the for the next five years.
Speaker: 1
01:19:43
And you were doing IV drip saloni release. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:19:46
No. It was a it was one big dose.
Speaker: 1
01:19:48
One big dose IV?
Speaker: 0
01:19:49
Yeah. Bolus. IV bolus. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. So the our high dose was zero point four milligrams per kilogram. Ai and the highest dose is now being used for zero point three. Nobody has gone back up to zero point four on a regular basis. Yeah. So people really went out there in zero point four. They were pretty scared. Yeah. They weren’t sure they’re coming back.
Speaker: 0
01:20:13
Ai, they weren’t
Speaker: 1
01:20:14
sure they were coming back. Yeah. That is a fear. That’s a fear of all psychedelic experiences. I don’t think you could shut it off. Yeah. What is this? And is this real? Is this around me all the time and I’m ignoring it?
Speaker: 0
01:20:28
Is this real?
Speaker: 1
01:20:28
Is this real?
Speaker: 0
01:20:29
Are you and and are you ignoring it? Yeah, boy. It’s a terrible state to be in. Terrible.
Speaker: 1
01:20:36
Excuse me.
Speaker: 0
01:20:37
That’s why Yeah. Yeah. That’s why I think, you know, DMT ought to be carefully taken.
Speaker: 1
01:20:44
I think everything should be carefully taken, especially if you’ve got something wrong with you already. Mhmm. Like, if you’re self diagnosing with some really potent stuff, ai, ugh.
Speaker: 0
01:20:52
Right. Right. Then yeah. Yeah. Things can really go south. Yeah. Well, I mean, how who’s who’s going to decide that, you know, based on what?
Speaker: 1
01:21:02
Well, no one’s deciding for you with alcohol. You could go fill your bar at home with more than enough to kill yourself with. And I
Speaker: 0
01:21:09
don’t get served at it. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:21:10
Right? Like, most people can. Yeah. Most people if you have, like, a little bar in your house, like, three or four bottles of Jack Daniels, couple of this, a couple of that, you’re dead. Drink all that stuff. You’re dead.
Speaker: 0
01:21:20
Yeah. Have you ever gone through a drinking phase?
Speaker: 1
01:21:23
Not a bad drinking phase. I don’t drink at all anymore, but I I will still if I feel like it, I’ll have a glass of ai, or I’ll have a margarita. I like a nice Cabernet, sir.
Speaker: 0
01:21:35
Okay.
Speaker: 1
01:21:37
I just like a little red wine sometimes, but I’ve only had, like, two or three glasses of anything over the last, like, eight, nine months. And even like, I didn’t even finish the wine. It’s like I’ve lost my taste for it.
Speaker: 0
01:21:49
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:21:50
I just the the trade off is not worth it. Like, I have a lot of fun people in my life, and I have a lot of fun without alcohol. Mhmm. Like, I don’t necessarily think it was providing me with the the amount of good versus the amount of negative. The the negative arya weight, especially physically.
Speaker: 0
01:22:13
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:22:13
It’s just bad for you physically.
Speaker: 0
01:22:15
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thankfully, I didn’t drink in high school. Ai sai and I kinda made up for lost time in college, and I got really sick a few times. Yeah. Sai I Ai rough. I just stopped drinking, you know, ai to that point anyway.
Speaker: 1
01:22:29
Wow. It’s like people are having a good time, you know, and I get it. And if you’re young and Ai get it, I get it, I did it too, but it’s not good for you. No.
Speaker: 2
01:22:38
It’s not
Speaker: 1
01:22:38
good for your decision making too because then you meet the next sai, you’re like, oh. And if you’re if you’re at that low state of being hungover, you’re fucking for sure not putting out great energy.
Speaker: 0
01:22:49
Yeah. Well, you don’t ai you don’t want to get into that state. Or if you or you you do, you sana channeled really, really carefully.
Speaker: 1
01:22:57
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:23:00
Yeah. Like ai, I’ve never been part of a, like, an ultraorthodox, sect, but I think what happens in, you know, some of the ultra orthodox Jewish, you know, sects, there’s a a Lubavitcher, sect in Brooklyn. And the fellow who led that was Schneerson, Menachem Schneerson. And he really enjoyed drinking. He got, you know, in ai. And and Ai.
Speaker: 0
01:23:26
And he wanted others to become inspired. You know, it has to ai know, some become a conduit. I I think it it kind of differs like with Bukowski, you know, but like, you know, you can’t think of somebody who loves alcohol. First time he first time he got drunk, it was a psychedelic experience, actually. Yeah. In his account, he says to himself, I think I’ve found something very, very important.
Speaker: 2
01:23:55
Just
Speaker: 1
01:23:55
It’s kind of hilarious.
Speaker: 0
01:23:57
Yeah. That was never the effect alcohol had on me. I didn’t and and you get you feel good for a while, short period of time. Yeah. And ai
Speaker: 1
01:24:07
We obviously all differ biologically, but some people, it hits a switch that nothing else does.
Speaker: 0
01:24:14
There’s
Speaker: 1
01:24:15
Some people love it.
Speaker: 0
01:24:16
Yeah. Well, it’s just it’s discounted in the text that you shouldn’t drink too much. It’s very
Speaker: 1
01:24:21
very Smart.
Speaker: 0
01:24:22
Very clear.
Speaker: 1
01:24:23
But I’m not sure you shouldn’t drink at all. Ai should drink if you wanna drink. And, you know, just, you know, everybody people get real rigid, you know, especially if you, have someone around you that has a problem with alcohol or you have had a problem with alcohol.
Speaker: 0
01:24:39
Yeah. Well, there’s a huge, homeless population in in Albuquerque.
Speaker: 1
01:24:45
Oh, yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:24:45
Alcohol plays somewhat of a role. Yeah. Ai played a lot more in the Navajo Reservation when I lived in Gallup. Yeah. I think people just use and abuse drugs. Uh-huh. Yeah. You know?
Speaker: 1
01:24:58
Also those things, they sound like there’s not a lot of opportunity in the places you’re describing. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:25:03
Right. So if you don’t yeah. You just wanna not feel anything.
Speaker: 1
01:25:07
You’re outside a reservation.
Speaker: 0
01:25:08
Or on one.
Speaker: 1
01:25:09
Or on a reservation? Yeah. I mean, I’m in the middle of, the audiobook Ai of the Summer Moon for the second time. It’s, it’s all about the Comanches and
Speaker: 0
01:25:23
I don’t know that.
Speaker: 1
01:25:23
The war between the settlers and the Comanches here.
Speaker: 0
01:25:26
Oh, really?
Speaker: 1
01:25:26
It’s crazy.
Speaker: 0
01:25:27
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I’m
Speaker: 1
01:25:30
in the the middle of this, and and I’m Ai thinking, like, have people always been this horrible, and we’re just sort of catching up to it now?
Speaker: 0
01:25:42
Well, you you know, that’s, you know, that’s taken into account in Cain and Abel, the Cain and Abel story. Sure. The first two children, one murders the other. So it start it started it started way back.
Speaker: 1
01:25:56
It starts way back with a bang. And you just go, god. Have people always been this awful?
Speaker: 0
01:26:02
From the beginning. Yeah. From well, you know, there’s a line in the text that he’s gonna that that, you know, god is gonna destroy mankind. No. No. What does he what what happens here? I think he decides people will only live a hundred and twenty years at the most because their inclination is bad from the get go.
Speaker: 0
01:26:20
And a hundred and twenty years is enough time to repent and become a better person. Wow. So you’re given a hundred and twenty years to, you know, deal with what you were born with.
Speaker: 1
01:26:33
But this book, this Empire of the Summer Moon, it just makes me think when you think about what life was like for the people that lived here before the European settlers arrived and how quickly everything went away, historically, in terms of, like, the timeline. It was only a few hundred years, and it was just completely gone.
Speaker: 0
01:26:55
Yeah. How was the Garden of Eden lost?
Speaker: 1
01:27:01
There was also there was a lot of war. That’s the thing that everybody likes to leave out. Like, I’m fascinated with Native American culture. I’m fascinated with this Comanche civilization that lived here because this book, Empire of the Summer Moon, is just it’s so interesting.
Speaker: 1
01:27:17
They were so fierce, and they lived right here.
Speaker: 0
01:27:22
Yeah. Well, there’s 29 Pueblos in New Meh. And, you know, the Pueblo are peaceful folk. They’re agricultural.
Speaker: 1
01:27:31
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:27:31
You know, that’s their, you know, that’s been their heritage.
Speaker: 1
01:27:34
The Comanche were not. And they one of the things this book talks about is how a lot of the Apaches were not on horseback, and they were. And that they were literally wiping out bands of Apache Mhmm. And forcing them to go to Mexico. It’s ai it this has always been there’s always been once they’ve had horses, which is really, like, after the Spaniards got here
Speaker: 0
01:28:00
Right. Right.
Speaker: 1
01:28:01
Then they once the Comanches figured out horses, they got really good at it. And they were ai an impossible barrier to get through this part of the country. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:28:10
There’s mostly Navajo around where I lived in Gallup, and they were nomads. They raised sheep. Mhmm. Spun.
Speaker: 1
01:28:20
Sure. And then in the Eastern side, a lot more agriculture. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:28:25
Yeah. With all all the space and the The amount
Speaker: 1
01:28:27
of time that it took for everything to get pushed where if you’re a Native American and you you’re, you know, it’s 2025 for you and you’re living on a ai reservation, you’re like, woah. What happened? You start going into the history of it, like, how many people died? Mhmm. Like, what happened?
Speaker: 0
01:28:45
Is is there a Comanche presence in in Texas?
Speaker: 1
01:28:49
A lot of signs. I’ll tell you that. A lot of the signs are like Quanah Parker Lane. He’s like he was the last Comanche chief.
Speaker: 0
01:28:56
Yeah. Yeah. Well well, they always name things after meh we used to be there.
Speaker: 1
01:29:02
Well, this is all that area is lot of Comanche were in this area, but it went all the way down to Oklahoma. It was, just a a barrier that you couldn’t get through.
Speaker: 0
01:29:14
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, it was fun living in Galt. It was mostly Navajo.
Speaker: 1
01:29:18
Yeah?
Speaker: 0
01:29:18
Yeah. Very low key. They come to terms with being, you know, defeated part of the you know, part of you know, it’s sai
Speaker: 1
01:29:30
though, isn’t it?
Speaker: 0
01:29:31
Well
Speaker: 1
01:29:31
I mean, it, like, had that all those things had to take place in order to get New York Ai. Again, so you have to decide what do you like more, New York City or you wanna go back in time and sai, don’t sell this.
Speaker: 0
01:29:43
Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
01:29:44
You know, what do
Speaker: 1
01:29:45
you like more? Do you like pizza? Do you like do you like go to a Do some ai.
Speaker: 0
01:29:49
I I like pizza.
Speaker: 1
01:29:50
I do too. I like to be able to go to a nice nightclub, have a drink, go to a nice steak dinner in New York City, or give it all back. Give it all back. Go back in ai. Just say, hey, guys. You’re getting robbed. Don’t sell this for whatever it was.
Speaker: 0
01:30:05
You can’t halt progress.
Speaker: 1
01:30:07
How much did they buy New York for?
Speaker: 0
01:30:08
$27.
Speaker: 1
01:30:10
Really?
Speaker: 0
01:30:10
In jewelry. Fake jewelry even. No. Yeah. Wow. What a deal. Or $45.
Speaker: 1
01:30:15
What a great what a great origin story for a villainous country that their number one city was made through a swindle deal
Speaker: 2
01:30:25
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:30:25
Where it was fake jewelry.
Speaker: 0
01:30:28
Uh-huh. Well, that’s where I went to medical school was The Bronx. Well, you’re from New Jersey.
Speaker: 1
01:30:32
Yes.
Speaker: 0
01:30:32
Yeah. I’m from
Speaker: 1
01:30:33
That’s where I was born. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:30:34
Yeah. I trained in The Bronx. I I didn’t get to Jersey much.
Speaker: 1
01:30:39
New Jersey is a crazy place because everybody thinks of it as just being city because, like, it’s right near the city. Mhmm. Like Hackensack and Hoboken and stuff like that, but it’s, like, mostly rural. Yeah. Mostly, it’s it’s got bears all over the place in it.
Speaker: 0
01:30:52
There’s some really nice coastal parks.
Speaker: 1
01:30:54
Yeah. Oh, yeah. The shore is awesome. You know, small doses. Mhmm. Yeah. It’s nice to go down there.
Speaker: 0
01:31:01
Yeah. So the Bronx was great training.
Speaker: 1
01:31:03
Yeah?
Speaker: 0
01:31:04
Yeah. It it’s it’s it’s a yeshiva. It’s what it’s like the modern orthodox, you know, university in the country. Oh, that’s
Speaker: 1
01:31:12
where it is?
Speaker: 0
01:31:13
Yeah. And, it it’s the it’s the medical school of yeshiva. It’s called Ai. And, it’s in the Bronx. It was great training. We could do anything. We could do everything because they were, you know, it was pretty poorly staffed in some in some ways in the seventies. Yeah. So So we had a lot of, you know, duties.
Speaker: 1
01:31:34
When did you first even have the idea to create a study of people doing IV DMT? Like, when did you even
Speaker: 0
01:31:45
That’s a ai story.
Speaker: 1
01:31:46
It seems like a good one, though. It seems like a good one. Because how ai was how do you get to the point where you’re asking the government to let you do this? And then you get them actually to say yes. Mhmm. That’s
Speaker: 0
01:31:59
It it was the war on drugs that funded our study. Well, it it all kind of came to a head, with Terrence McKenna. We were up in his loft one afternoon. And, instead of saying DMT was a really great drug and asked for money, we said DMT was a really dangerous drug and asked for money.
Speaker: 1
01:32:25
Oh, I think you’ve told me this before.
Speaker: 0
01:32:27
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:32:28
But it’s a good story.
Speaker: 0
01:32:29
It’s a yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:32:30
We just wanna study it.
Speaker: 0
01:32:31
We just wanna study it. Is that good or bad?
Speaker: 1
01:32:38
It’s clever because it’s not you’re not lying.
Speaker: 0
01:32:41
No. No. I knew what I was talking about too.
Speaker: 1
01:32:45
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:32:46
Like, I had done neuroendocrinology research with melatonin, circadian rhythm research. Yeah. I was a bonafide investigator. I I just asked simple questions. You know, could we give it? What happens when you give it? DMT is really strange. The the role it’s played in my life.
Speaker: 0
01:33:05
I was I’ve been complaining for years, that well, not complaining for years, but, I don’t know. I’m I’m more skeptical of the psychedelic experience than I was before. I don’t think it’s a it’s a panacea. Well, I I I think it is a panacea. That’s the problem.
Speaker: 1
01:33:26
I think there’s an issue with spiritual narcissism. That’s a a thing that sort of grips people when they start doing it a lot, and then their identity is wrapped up in doing it a lot.
Speaker: 0
01:33:39
Yeah. Yeah. Ai, There’s
Speaker: 1
01:33:40
a little bit of that that happens with folks.
Speaker: 0
01:33:43
With DMT in particular.
Speaker: 1
01:33:45
Is it? Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:33:45
Or Ayahuasca. Mhmm. Like, about once a once a year, I get a email saying something in the subject line, you’re booking my son.
Speaker: 1
01:33:56
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
01:33:57
Yeah. And they say that they, you know, just smoked way too much DMT. They were in the hospital or in prison.
Speaker: 1
01:34:03
Oh, Jesus.
Speaker: 0
01:34:04
Yeah. They just well, ai became meh, like you were like ai you sai. Ai you believe you know more than anyone, and if they just listened. Yeah. False messiah. Well, I assume, you know, there are some interesting stories of false messiahs. The you know, the at least within Judaism, ai has not come yet as opposed to Christianity where Jesus was ai.
Speaker: 0
01:34:30
And so
Speaker: 1
01:34:31
So what is sai what is Judaism’s version of what happened with Jesus? He wasn’t the messiah, so he died. He didn’t get resurrected?
Speaker: 0
01:34:40
Well, you know, he may have been resurrected, but resurrection occurs in the Hebrew Ai. So that’s not unique.
Speaker: 1
01:34:48
Right. But what what is their take on it?
Speaker: 0
01:34:54
Well, end of story, he’s killed.
Speaker: 1
01:34:57
And that’s it? He don’t come back?
Speaker: 0
01:34:59
No. Not really. Not within the Hebrew Bible. That’s part of the New Testament, the Christian Bible. Mhmm. Oh, oh, that’s one thing I wanted to bring up is Old Testament is a term that’s a little disparaging in a way. It’s been Is it? It’s been replaced by Hebrew Bible.
Speaker: 1
01:35:16
Interesting. Yeah. When was that?
Speaker: 0
01:35:19
It’s been building.
Speaker: 1
01:35:20
Okay. Sai is this ai a pronouns thing? Can it prefers this? If It wants to be identified as a Hebrew ai?
Speaker: 0
01:35:28
They prefer it.
Speaker: 1
01:35:29
They. I was saying it.
Speaker: 0
01:35:32
Yeah. It could be either.
Speaker: 1
01:35:35
It will interest of simplicity.
Speaker: 0
01:35:37
Yeah. Well, you know, like, I was thinking of well, you know how people put in parenthetical phrases, you know, he, him? Yeah. Ai thought
Speaker: 1
01:35:48
I was
Speaker: 0
01:35:49
I was thinking of doing that for myself once, it and its.
Speaker: 1
01:35:53
It and its? Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
01:35:55
And be it would be gender neutral.
Speaker: 1
01:35:58
Sounds good.
Speaker: 0
01:35:59
Yeah. Well, that’s ai of the
Speaker: 1
01:36:02
Or just not ever. K. I want
Speaker: 0
01:36:06
Yeah. So, you know, I was thinking about, you know, you know, does god have genitals? And, you know, probably not.
Speaker: 1
01:36:18
Doesn’t seem like it’s the likely way we were made, but there’s probably some sort of a interdimensional ai equivalent of intercourse that Well, it higher beings have
Speaker: 0
01:36:38
I I
Speaker: 1
01:36:38
some interaction with each other.
Speaker: 0
01:36:40
I think it was the optimal form. The optimal form? Yeah. To contain a certain consciousness and do particular things. It’s sai ideal form. You know, it will it was ideal. So that’s, you know, why it took a particular unique shah. You know, form follows function, things like that.
Speaker: 1
01:37:04
Right. Yeah. Well, I’m I’m I got confused there. What are you referring to?
Speaker: 2
01:37:09
Oh, well, you know,
Speaker: 0
01:37:09
the specific well, I think you’re, I was referring to man being made in God’s image. Okay. Yeah. With with genitals.
Speaker: 1
01:37:20
Oh, right.
Speaker: 0
01:37:21
Yeah. Okay. You know, but but I think it, you know, it in the animal kingdom, things evolve to do certain things. They have form and function, which, you know, combined determine their range of behaviors. So I think in humans, it’s sort of was the optimal form as well. Same way, perhaps.
Speaker: 1
01:37:45
What do you think happened when human beings had this doubling of the brain size over a period of two million years? What do you think that
Speaker: 0
01:37:56
was? Is that true?
Speaker: 1
01:37:58
Supposedly.
Speaker: 0
01:37:58
Yeah. I think so. I think it was yeah. Yeah. I don’t know.
Speaker: 1
01:38:02
Sounds like a crazy little expansion.
Speaker: 0
01:38:06
Yeah. Sai, I mean, you can look at it, you know, evolutionarily, you know, biologically. You know, theologically, you can look at it too as, you know, finally being endowed with, you know, the human spirit. You know, there’s multiple spirits. You know, and even in the Hebrew Bible, there’s multiple spirits.
Speaker: 0
01:38:24
There’s
Speaker: 1
01:38:26
So as the brain expands in size, you develop a human spirit?
Speaker: 0
01:38:30
I think so. Yeah. That human spirit allows for divine communication. At least that’s how the the theory
Speaker: 1
01:38:37
goes. So
Speaker: 0
01:38:38
It’s the, you know, the breathing in of of the soul to man by God, and it’s in in man’s creation.
Speaker: 1
01:38:46
Right. So ultimately, we’re gonna get to be a gray. We’re gonna have a big giant head, and we’re not gonna need to talk because we’re gonna we’re gonna do it telepathically.
Speaker: 0
01:38:56
Yeah. Okay. You you know, telepathically, do you think, people being able to read the mind is a good thing? It it will, be a good thing once that happens or if it it can happen?
Speaker: 1
01:39:11
I think it will be a thing. And like all things, it will have good aspects to it and bad aspects to it. I think reading people’s minds will be very enlightening. You’re gonna learn a lot more about how people actually think versus what they project. You’re gonna you’re gonna be able to see people’s motivations. You’re gonna be able to sai lies and we might even have a universal visual language that they develop.
Speaker: 1
01:39:34
We might all be able to adopt it really quickly, and kids probably will jump right on board, and they’ll be literate in it before we are.
Speaker: 0
01:39:42
What about psychological ambivalence? You know, loving someone one moment, hating them another.
Speaker: 1
01:39:49
Well, that’s
Speaker: 0
01:39:51
You know, what happens if you, you know, tune in to one at one moment? You’re convinced that’s that’s, you know, solely the case if you’re ambivalent. Unbivalence is a real thing, and you’re, you know, you have an unconscious too, where things are ai of stored away psychologically. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:40:10
I’m not saying it’s good.
Speaker: 0
01:40:12
It it might be hard.
Speaker: 1
01:40:13
But I I don’t know if if there’s some way where we link up and we can communicate completely telepathically. It could be really weird. Yeah. But it will be a thing. That’s my point. It’s like it’s it’s we’re gonna have to navigate it ai we navigated making books, like we navigated everything else.
Speaker: 1
01:40:35
Like, if we wanna stay alive, we’ve gotta recognize that there’s some shit going down. There’s some shit going down right now.
Speaker: 0
01:40:42
And Right. Well, there’s free will, isn’t there? You know, forever. You sai all obvious decisions that you have to make. Well, I mean, in this,
Speaker: 1
01:40:50
Or is there free will? The the determinism people don’t think there is.
Speaker: 0
01:40:53
Well, it feels as if there’s free will.
Speaker: 1
01:40:56
Yeah. I feel like we respect free will, so it’s probably a real thing. We expect we we we respect a person who’s, like, been a drunk their whole ai, who puts down the bottle and starts running around the block. We respect that because it’s a real thing.
Speaker: 0
01:41:09
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:41:09
Free will is there’s part of free will. It’s ai there’s something there. Mhmm. There’s something there. You make choices. You don’t know why you make choices, but you make choices. That’s the thing. There’s a lot of factors in why you make choices, and it’s not 100% determinism and it’s not 100% free will. It’s kind of there’s a soup. Uh-huh.
Speaker: 1
01:41:30
There’s a very
Speaker: 0
01:41:33
Yeah. Well, to the extent soup. You know, to the extent that you can exert free will, You know, you have to kinda do the best you can.
Speaker: 1
01:41:41
Yeah. You gotta do the best you
Speaker: 0
01:41:42
can. Yeah. Yeah. And even if we’re uploaded into the cloud, let’s sai, ai, I mean, how’s that time gonna be spent?
Speaker: 1
01:41:50
Good question. What is I mean, arya we even capable of imagining what we’re talking about? Are we so crude in our understanding of what’s to come in the next five, ten, whatever years that we’re just we’re just guessing, we’re silly, or, like, writing a bad science fiction movie from the nineteen eighties about the year February.
Speaker: 1
01:42:11
Mhmm. You remember those, like, speak 1999?
Speaker: 0
01:42:15
Well well, you know, it’s it’s the one Ai and the golden rule. I think that’s what we’ll be, you know, left with ethically, you know, what the basis of our decision making will be.
Speaker: 1
01:42:26
I’ve always wondered if we’re in a race to avoid catastrophe. And that’s one of the reasons why we’re so, like, hyper focused on accelerating with technology is that we kind of always recognize that this species is on a a race to avoid natural catastrophe. Like, there’s just so much potential for natural vatsal catastrophe, whether it’s super volcanoes, asteroid impacts, so many different things have, like, almost wiped us out to nothing.
Speaker: 1
01:42:54
That it’s, like, might be a part of the reason why there’s this, like, mad rush to make better and better and better technology. It’s almost like
Speaker: 2
01:43:03
a Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:43:03
A game. Like, can you get to the final boss? Can your species survive and figure out a way to stop the rock from space?
Speaker: 0
01:43:12
Yeah. The the footsteps of the Ai. That’s what, that’s called. I mean, you sana be at around, you wanna be around at the time of the Sai, but not really because things have to get so bad. That’s one model of
Speaker: 1
01:43:26
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:43:26
You know, the end of times.
Speaker: 1
01:43:28
There’s also a lot of people that don’t recognize that being a a human being on Earth is being a passenger in an organic spaceship going through the universe.
Speaker: 2
01:43:44
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
01:43:44
Like,
Speaker: 1
01:43:45
there there are real celestial events that they have to keep their eyes on, which, you know, you haven’t experienced in your ai. Sai, like, but no. There’s there’s giant rocks that killed the ai, and they’re still floating around, same size rocks.
Speaker: 0
01:44:00
Yeah. I know.
Speaker: 1
01:44:01
And they can’t stop them. They don’t know how to stop them yet. Like, don’t listen to any of these fucking people. Oh, if we saw it, we would do this and do that and sleep tight at night. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
Speaker: 1
01:44:13
If there was some gigantic state ai chunk of metal flying through the galaxy, we would have a real problem.
Speaker: 0
01:44:22
Mhmm. Yeah. Ai it might wipe out all of humanity.
Speaker: 1
01:44:26
Yeah. It might wipe out all of humanity. Yeah. And it probably came really close to doing that a few times in history. That’s what I think. Yeah. It’s the only thing that makes sense. If we know that we were hit all the time, we we all accept the fact that the Yucatan impact, that’s what killed the ai, and there’s been a bunch of them throughout history.
Speaker: 1
01:44:44
We’ve sai we’ve we ai craters everywhere. Everyone knows that we’ve been hit multiple ai, the Tunguska thing in Russia Yeah. Where it flattened this enormous patch of forest that’s still flattened.
Speaker: 0
01:44:57
Have you been watching, season two of Umf Ram, and Hancock’s Ancient Apocalypse.
Speaker: 1
01:45:05
I didn’t watch season two yet. Yeah. No. I watched season one, though. Yeah. What’s season two about?
Speaker: 0
01:45:12
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:45:12
It’s, it’s like The Americas. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:45:13
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:45:16
Yeah. The Americas are crazy. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:45:18
I like Graham.
Speaker: 1
01:45:19
Oh, he’s the best.
Speaker: 0
01:45:20
Yeah. He’s hardworking.
Speaker: 1
01:45:22
Oh, he loves what he does, man. He really, really does. And the fact that he’s finally been over all these attacks, he’s finally been vindicated, and people are starting to accept more and more things are probably a lot older than than we wanna believe. And especially after Gobekli Litepi, that kinda, like, that popped the cork on everything. And everyone’s ai, okay. Well, this sai definitely been buried for eleven thousand years.
Speaker: 1
01:45:50
So what this is kinda crazy. We didn’t know they could do that back then.
Speaker: 0
01:45:55
Well, before coming out here, I asked Chat GPT, you know, how old are some of the stories written down in the text in the Hebrew Ai. And at least according to Chat GPT, it’s 10,000 years ago. You know, so Oh meh god. You know, something may have happened at that time that
Speaker: 1
01:46:12
That makes sense.
Speaker: 0
01:46:13
Yeah. That’s a very interesting finding. Oh, you know, Sodom and Gomorrah, that’s a great story. Ai working on this translation of the Hebrew Bible. I’ve got a substack now. I’ve been putting out things every week, a chapter a speak. Yeah. On on my translation of the Bible, it’s like a thousand pages right now of commentary about the language and, you know, the grammar, you know, the meaning that what’s called the plain meaning of the text.
Speaker: 0
01:46:40
Like, there was a Noah with three sons and Mhmm. Went on the ark. Yeah. So, yeah, that’s, like, my big project, but I like to do a smaller one about Sodom and Gomorrah and the figure of Lot, I think. That’s a really incredible story.
Speaker: 0
01:46:57
Ai spent about maybe two to three weeks, you know, looking at that, you know, like, you know, Lot, his virgin daughters, the men circling his house, they’re asking to know him. He ends up, you know, in a cave with his two virgin daughters. They get him drunk, and he sleeps with them. Or, you know, they lie with him anyway.
Speaker: 0
01:47:19
Yeah. And out come two kids at certain point, and they become very important. You know, later on, they’re the beginning of the messianic line. You know? So it’s a very intricate, you know, tale with a very Ai think you can make some cool conversations between some of the main personages in the, in, you know, the narrative.
Speaker: 0
01:47:41
You know, there’s a book called The Red Tent.
Speaker: 1
01:47:44
Can I ask you about the the lot? Like, how how old was that story?
Speaker: 0
01:47:50
Well, that must be well, it’s an explanation of, you know, Sodom and Gomorrah, which is the, you know, around the Dead Sea. You know, there was a conflagration of some sort there. Have any of your guests spoken about, you know, Sodom? You know, you know, what actually happened around the Dead Sea? It it it was quite catastrophic.
Speaker: 1
01:48:10
Well, tell us
Speaker: 0
01:48:11
tell us. Well, the story of Lot. Yeah. I mean, there was fire and sulfur pouring down in Sodom and Gomorrah. Yeah. It was the end of the plain. Yeah. So that’s, the southern part of, you know, the of, you know, the Dead Sea. You know, it it is a Dead Sea because of its high salt concentrations.
Speaker: 0
01:48:30
It was kind of, you know, closed off from the coast. Yeah. So it’s at least a description of, you know, what took place.
Speaker: 1
01:48:42
What do you think it’s describing?
Speaker: 0
01:48:46
Well, I mean, you know, my perspective is
Speaker: 1
01:48:49
A volcano?
Speaker: 0
01:48:50
It actually happened. Yeah. But people think of volcano. A some kind of volcanic activity.
Speaker: 1
01:48:55
We’re totally saying sounds like a volcano. Right? And one we know that there’s been a bunch of those that, have almost wiped people out entirely Mhmm. At certain points. The Toba Volcano, you know, that one? No. We got down to, I think the we’ve looked this up before, but I wanna sai, they think we might have gotten down to just a few thousand people.
Speaker: 0
01:49:21
On the whole planet?
Speaker: 1
01:49:22
Ai, 70,000 ago. Seventy thousand years ago, there was a massive supervolcano, that went off, and it, you know, plunged the Earth probably into nuclear winter. And they think that our genetic line entirely of the human race on Earth came from this few thousand survivors.
Speaker: 0
01:49:41
Joe, can we take a a
Speaker: 1
01:49:42
Yes. A a break. Be?
Speaker: 0
01:49:43
Yeah. Yes.
Speaker: 1
01:49:44
We’ll be right back, folks.
Speaker: 0
01:49:45
Seriously. We’re back. Well yeah. So we are talking about the alternative.
Speaker: 1
01:49:50
Yes. Explain what you mean by that. Like, that these things are happening in an alternative dimension.
Speaker: 0
01:49:57
Right. Yeah. I think they’re happening in an alternative dimension. Like, when you smoke DMT, you return to the same place each time. So there seems to be some some reality, some DMT world, that people enter into. And it’s one of my volunteers, one of the the subjects in the DMT research, he he got a big dose one day, and then a few months later, he you know, got another big dose.
Speaker: 0
01:50:24
And he he said that it was very interesting. He said things have just, you know, continued at pace since his first exposure and his first, you know, entrance into that state. And things had had, you know, gone on, in the meantime, and he reentered, you know, that world. So in that way, there’s a you know, in that same manner, the world of the Hebrew Bible early on, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Noah, the Tyler Of Babel, all that took place Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
01:50:58
On at some sai some different level of reality, which gradually made its way into ours. And once it made its way into ours, there’s the archeological evidence, you know, the first temple, second temple, and so on. So there is a transition between, you know, our our world and that world kind of merged. But in the in in the beginning, it was an alternative dimension.
Speaker: 0
01:51:27
The the same god, I think, but but, you know, different dimensions.
Speaker: 2
01:51:33
We
Speaker: 1
01:51:33
sai did is this your own personal conclusion?
Speaker: 0
01:51:38
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, when I was on the show last time, you’re asking if I believe those things took place. And my answer then was I you know, I take it as if it were true. Right. And then I started to think, you know, how I would do that. You know, like, in what world would that be true? It’d be a different world.
Speaker: 1
01:52:01
Right. I feel like I’ve always believed that they were trying to record something. I just didn’t always trust that human beings were completely honest with their recollection of events. So that there’s something that they were trying to write down, but was it really coming from God? Was it what are these accurate events?
Speaker: 1
01:52:25
What what exactly happened with Noah and the ark? Like, what what really happened?
Speaker: 0
01:52:32
Well, you know, three stories. You know, three, you know, three levels.
Speaker: 2
01:52:38
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
01:52:39
You know, two of each, then seven if you know, one one or two one pair or, you know, seven pairs, of birds. Well, of every living thing.
Speaker: 1
01:52:49
Yeah. But, like, how’s he feeding them? Animals eat other animals. The whole thing’s nuts. You bryden need a lot more rabbits. You need so many animals to keep just the lions alive.
Speaker: 0
01:52:58
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:52:58
It doesn’t make any sense. How’s he getting them all from all over the world into his stupid boat? Yeah. There’s so many things that are wrong. Yeah. But the story of him being told that some shit is go about to go down, and you probably should, you know, find some way to restart your version of civilization somewhere.
Speaker: 1
01:53:21
There’s probably multiple like, the flood myth that we you know, whatever you sana call it, the the the the stories of the flood that you get from Epic of Gilgamesh, that you get from Noah. There’s not it’s not just those. There’s many, many different cultures all throughout history have a flood story. Right? So it’s probably likely that some crazy shit went down.
Speaker: 1
01:53:47
You know, there may have
Speaker: 0
01:53:49
been you know, there most likely was a a flood. Yeah. You know, so what do you learn from it? You know, like, how do you do better or on what on on what basis do you rebuild? You know? So I think, you know, there’s, you know, different models. You know, the, I mean, you know, the biblical one is interesting because because, you know, it’s a it’s, you know, lineage, you know, from Adam
Speaker: 1
01:54:21
to
Speaker: 0
01:54:22
to Noah Right. To Abraham, you know, to Isaac and, Jacob, and the ai, and now
Speaker: 1
01:54:31
So when you talk about things happening in an alternative dimension, like, is that what you think, like, the birth of mankind is as well, like Adam and Eve?
Speaker: 0
01:54:43
Well, I mean
Speaker: 1
01:54:44
Pull this microphone up.
Speaker: 0
01:54:45
Okay. I’m sorry. Oh, it’s okay.
Speaker: 1
01:54:47
It just has a impact and
Speaker: 0
01:54:48
Yeah. Well, you you know, the creation story. Your man was created on sixth day Right. Along with mammals. It’s sai cool story. It’s, you know, stages. Yeah. Like, you know, people are say, well, you know, seven days, that’s ai, like, the you know, that your creation took place seven times 24. I don’t know.
Speaker: 0
01:55:13
Hundred and forty eight. Ai you know, something like that. One hundred and forty eight hours, one hundred and sixty eight hours, the whole world was, you know, was created. You know, but it’s broken into stages, you know, seven stages, you know, which is one of the translations of the word that is usually translated day.
Speaker: 0
01:55:36
It could also mean stage. It’s a word yom. It can means either a day or period of time, a stage. So that’s, you know, that’s the answer that makes, you know, sense to me about, you know, the seven day story of creation. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:55:52
So, you know, man was was created on the sixth day and then was placed in the Garden Of Eden, and, you know, those events took place. Yeah. The stories themselves are just you know, they’re, you know, they’re written down, And so people have been studying them for thousands of years.
Speaker: 1
01:56:13
Who do you think Lilith was?
Speaker: 0
01:56:16
No no mention of Lilith in the Ai. Really?
Speaker: 1
01:56:19
Yeah. Where does the story of Lilith emerge?
Speaker: 0
01:56:22
Well, it comes from what’s called Midrash.
Speaker: 1
01:56:24
What’s that?
Speaker: 0
01:56:25
Comes from a root, d r shah, Darash. It means to, I don’t know, explicate, to expand upon, to investigate. You know? So what happened after Adam and Eve sinned? You know? Did they have sex again? And they do have, Cain and Abel and the ensuing stories. And, you know, then there’s a third son, Sheit, who, is the inheritor of Adam’s good of his traits, his good traits and bad traits. He’s like God as well.
Speaker: 0
01:57:02
You know? So, you know, there’s a a distinct lineage that, ai, you know, spelled out. You know, Lilith was was, a demon, you know, that, she slept with Adam after the sin of eating from the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. You know, so there’s a a a story that that ai built up around, you know, the biblical story that they were separated.
Speaker: 0
01:57:33
Adam and Eve were, you know, were separated for a long period. And, you you know, so who was Adam sleeping with? Well, it was expanded in the Midrash that there is a demoness named Lilith who slept with Adam for, I mean, I don’t know, a couple hundred years. And then Adam and Eve reconciled. Woah. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:57:58
So, meh, so Lilith is, you know, is you know, she, you know, she doesn’t appear in the text of the Hebrew Bible, as such. Yeah. So nobody know you know, there’s a mythology that’s grown around Lilith as well. Well, isn’t there some festival, some some music festival called the Loma Festival?
Speaker: 1
01:58:22
Lilith Fair.
Speaker: 0
01:58:23
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:58:24
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:58:24
That’s that’s that’s named after, you know, the spirit that or the, you know, demoness who’s
Speaker: 1
01:58:29
You sure it wasn’t ai a lady named Lilith that she came up with? Are we sure?
Speaker: 0
01:58:34
It was her neighbor, Lilith, Swift Smith.
Speaker: 1
01:58:40
So what was the reason why the book of Enoch like, so it was not included in all the versions of the the Ai Mhmm. By a decision of, like, how many people? It was ai a few rabbis. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:58:57
Well, the saloni you’re talking about, there’s 22 books in the Hebrew Bible.
Speaker: 1
01:59:02
Right. Yeah. There there’s certain versions of it that they found with the Dead Sea Scrolls ai the book of Isaiah that’s identical Yeah. Verbatim, which is really amazing. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:59:11
Yeah. Yeah. And there’s Aramaic translations. Aramaic was the spoken language back back then back there.
Speaker: 2
01:59:16
But the
Speaker: 1
01:59:17
book of Enoch was a part of all that, the the stuff they found in Qumran too. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:59:23
This they’re I’m I’m just not sure. Well, I I I tried learning about the book of Enoch.
Speaker: 1
01:59:30
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:59:30
Yeah. There’s only an Ethiopian version. Right?
Speaker: 1
01:59:35
Yes.
Speaker: 0
01:59:36
Yeah. Well, have you looked into the book of Enoch?
Speaker: 1
01:59:39
Yeah. Well, I told you I’ve been listening to it on audio. But Ethiopia is a fascinating place. Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, that’s the place where Graham Hancock started getting interested in the possibility that they have the Arya of the Covenant.
Speaker: 0
01:59:51
Right. There’s supposed to be a tribe Uh-huh. In Ethiopia.
Speaker: 1
01:59:54
And they all get cataracts. And the people that are protecting it, they only live, like, a certain amount of time and then they die?
Speaker: 0
02:00:00
Yeah. Ai, if that’s true
Speaker: 1
02:00:02
if any of that’s true, if any of that’s true, that if if somehow or another there’s people on Earth today that have an arya of the covenant, How could you keep that a secret? That’s the craziest thing to be even allowed to keep a secret.
Speaker: 0
02:00:19
Yeah. It’s one of those things you can’t even imagine.
Speaker: 1
02:00:22
You mean, you don’t can you imagine if they open up a door and, like, there it is. Oh, like like, from Raiders of the Lost Ark, melts your face off?
Speaker: 0
02:00:30
Well, it would contain the 10 Commandments.
Speaker: 1
02:00:33
Yo.
Speaker: 0
02:00:34
Yeah. Yeah. The original 10 well, yeah, the original 10 Commandments.
Speaker: 1
02:00:40
Well, what do you think these guys are guarding in Ethiopia where they’re getting cataracts? Because when Graham describes it, you know, like, if you’re telling me the truth, and I think you arya, because you’ve never lied to me yet. If you’re telling me the truth, these people that are guarding this place that supposedly has the Arya the Covenant are all getting, like, radiation sickness?
Speaker: 0
02:01:00
Yeah. Well, yeah, the Arya is hidden. I mean, that’s what is, you know, said in the Hebrew Bible is that it’s bryden. So we just don’t know what happened. At at least according to the Hebrew Bible, it still has been it hasn’t been discovered yet. So it might be in Ethiopia. God only knows.
Speaker: 1
02:01:21
It’s just the craziest story ever. Because if it is true, if this one church has the arya of the covenant, like, hey, guys, let us get a look at it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know?
Speaker: 0
02:01:32
I I hope they got it right.
Speaker: 1
02:01:34
Yeah. Well, they should definitely make sure someone doesn’t steal it.
Speaker: 0
02:01:38
You know? Yeah. Well, the the, you know, the 10 commandments, you know, that’s appearing in in in the I mean, public schools now.
Speaker: 1
02:01:46
Yeah. Ai I had a guy, James Tyler, on to talk about that actually, who’s a very, a staunch Christian and thinks it’s a terrible idea to have the 10 commandments in classrooms. Why? It is you’re indoctrinating children because it’s ai a way to drive them away from Christianity. You’re forcing it on them.
Speaker: 1
02:02:03
He’s ai, we we we shouldn’t do it that way and and certainly not do it in a way where you’re only gonna have the 10 commandments, and you’re not gonna have anything about Buddhism, and you’re not gonna have anything about miss Islam, you’re not gonna have anything about Baptist or what, you know, fill in the blank.
Speaker: 1
02:02:21
Mormons, fill in the ai. You know, Scientologists, you’d have to have everything.
Speaker: 0
02:02:26
You have
Speaker: 1
02:02:27
to just keep going forever and ever and ever.
Speaker: 2
02:02:28
And
Speaker: 1
02:02:28
then splinter groups. Yes. So he’s got a good r d I I mean, I think he’s right. I think they should stop doing that. If you wanna teach it in a classroom that someone applies for, that’s great. But, like, putting it on the wall of every class seems kind of insane. Apparently, he was saying that it’s just a couple of different gentlemen in Texas that are, like, super wealthy and super Christian, and they want this to be ai a theocracy.
Speaker: 0
02:02:59
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:03:00
Unfortunately, where have we heard that before?
Speaker: 0
02:03:03
In the Middle Ages.
Speaker: 1
02:03:04
Yeah, baby. Ai, I just think it’s what happens when people get a shit ton of money, a shit ton of power, and they start getting older. They need a sport. They need to take up a take up a game that fascinates them instead of trying to, like, global world dominate.
Speaker: 0
02:03:17
Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
02:03:19
You
Speaker: 1
02:03:19
know, it’s just people get to positions of extreme wealth and power, and they just sana manipulate things and make more money. And they wanna do it forever and ever and ever, and they can’t. You only live to be a 120. If everything goes perfect, maybe today you might be able to if you can make it to, like, if you make it to 90 today, I bet you could live a lot longer.
Speaker: 0
02:03:46
If you live to 90?
Speaker: 1
02:03:48
Yeah. Like, if you can
Speaker: 0
02:03:50
I’ve I’ve lived way older than, you know, than my father. And sai so I think yeah. I I think I’ll live a while longer. I I married a young woman.
Speaker: 1
02:04:01
That helps.
Speaker: 0
02:04:02
I need to stay, you know, fit.
Speaker: 1
02:04:03
You know, that actually does help.
Speaker: 0
02:04:05
Live a live a longer time. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:04:07
There’s been studies that show that men that date younger women, they have more active lives. They feel healthier.
Speaker: 0
02:04:14
I’m more active.
Speaker: 1
02:04:16
Yeah. But it could be those are the kind of women that are interested in dating that kind of guy.
Speaker: 0
02:04:21
I just don’t know. Is it very yeah. I I I don’t know how it works.
Speaker: 1
02:04:28
And the ai of guys that are more active and healthy would also be the kind of guys that would want to date younger women, so it’s a ai bio sample group.
Speaker: 0
02:04:37
Right? Yeah. One of my analysts said it was a mystery. She had no idea, and she’d been seeing patients for, like, fifty years. Shah she sai, no. I have no idea. It’s a mystery.
Speaker: 1
02:04:49
Interesting.
Speaker: 0
02:04:50
And why people get together.
Speaker: 1
02:04:52
Yeah. Well, I think whatever makes you happy.
Speaker: 0
02:04:59
Well, that’s it. You know, that’s, you know, that’s the book of Ecclesiastes. It’s about, you know, it’s emptiness, emptiness. It’s all emptiness. Ask you know, but, at near the end, you should make your wife happy and, eat and drink and be merry ai you’re alive. What do you think of that?
Speaker: 1
02:05:21
It’s good advice. Solid advice. If I was living two thousand years ago, I’d probably say the same thing.
Speaker: 0
02:05:26
Right. Yeah. I think this is ai day.
Speaker: 1
02:05:29
No medicine. Do you have no antibiotics? There’s no orthopedic surgeons that are gonna put your knee back together again? Yeah. I’d say that too.
Speaker: 0
02:05:40
Yeah. Yeah. It is it is bad when you have one doctor for every organ system.
Speaker: 1
02:05:47
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:05:48
Part of part
Speaker: 1
02:05:49
They didn’t know anything. Mhmm. That’s nuts. I mean, how many people died of infections back then? We’re we’re just shah alone. That’s extended life like like just antibiotics saloni. It’s extended ai so much because so many people that would have probably died got got healthy again. So many people.
Speaker: 1
02:06:08
And those people can maybe figure out some new way to bridge this gap and stop these viruses and stop this, stop that. And then we just keep getting better at it until we eventually get to the point where we’re living as long as Noah.
Speaker: 0
02:06:22
600 for Noah.
Speaker: 1
02:06:24
And that’s what probably when God gets fed up. He’s ai, enough. Well You fucking animals. Maybe that’s ai maybe we’re gonna repeat that process. Maybe we’re gonna, like, figure out some awesome new peptides to keep you alive for five hundred years, and everyone’s gonna be a dick to everybody else. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:06:39
And then, eventually, God will just have to drown us again.
Speaker: 0
02:06:43
In Ai in college. We had to read a book about, the funeral home industry in Southern California.
Speaker: 1
02:06:51
Oh, yeah?
Speaker: 0
02:06:51
Yeah. I ai, this little novel by Aldous Huxley ram Meh a Summer Dies of Swan. It’s about these people who live forever, yeah, by eating the intestinal microbiome of carp. Oh, wow. And they become ai carp in a in a lot of ways. And I tried to, you know, get into one of these funeral homes.
Speaker: 0
02:07:12
Like, you know, I asked to be I asked to interview them to just see, you know, what people, you know, you know, did after death, and, you know, never heard back. One of those, you know, crazy college stories, about looking into the funeral home industry, well, you know, which is a I don’t know. That’s pretty big.
Speaker: 1
02:07:41
It’s a weird business. You meh the business of taking care of bodies, and you don’t don’t really have a lot of options. Right? Like, you’re not like, if someone dies, I don’t think you’re are you just allowed to let them fertilize some plants? Are you allowed to do that?
Speaker: 0
02:07:59
Yeah. Ai I you know, like, I’ll be
Speaker: 1
02:08:01
to put them in formaldehyde? Do you have to do all that stuff?
Speaker: 0
02:08:04
I mean, I you did an autopsy on a cadaver, you know, when, you know, back in the day. You open people up and look at them. Well, then there’s, you know, surgery, which you go through as well. Right.
Speaker: 1
02:08:27
That was an odd pause. I was like, where are we going with this conversation?
Speaker: 0
02:08:32
I know. Well, I love the Hebrew Bible. I Yes. I I speak all my time in it. Just the weirdest thing there is. Like Do
Speaker: 1
02:08:42
you do you, have any idea why the book of Enoch was supposedly excluded from Yeah. Being included in the Bible? Yeah. Seems to be some debate about that. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:08:52
Yeah. Yeah. I know. There’s, you know, there was sai I think the Dead Sea Scroll community used the book of Enoch. You know, ai, it it was like their Ai. Right. Yeah. Very strange. Well, the thing about the book of Enoch is really, you know, very ai, but there’s not that much like, I don’t think there’s much in it as far as, you know, Judaism itself.
Speaker: 0
02:09:21
I mean, it’s that discussion of the righteous being rewarded Mhmm. And the evil being punished, the evil people being punished. But you don’t really learn what it means to be ai, and you don’t really learn in from the book of Enoch what is meant to be evil. Well, you don’t know how you know, there isn’t all that much information, I don’t think, in there. It’s it’s historical, and it’s really weird astronomical stuff too.
Speaker: 0
02:09:47
But I think it it may not have been included in the tech in the Hebrew Bible because there weren’t any ethical teachings, in that one ai that could be, you know, had by reading it.
Speaker: 1
02:10:02
No ethical teachings that could be had by reading it. What do you mean by that?
Speaker: 0
02:10:06
Yeah. I mean, you one of the essences of Judaism, I think, is mono is ethical monotheism. You know? That’s where, you know, there’s the, you know, the golden rule and there’s one god. Yeah. So it’s ethical monotheism. Yeah. So where were we? Where were we? Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:10:31
Just just then.
Speaker: 1
02:10:33
We were talking about the Hebrew Ai, and we were talking about what else are we talking about? We were talking Why why Enoch wasn’t it? Ai the book of Enoch was in the Dead Sea Scrolls
Speaker: 0
02:10:43
Oh, yeah. But
Speaker: 1
02:10:44
ai, but it wasn’t accepted later.
Speaker: 0
02:10:46
Right. Right.
Speaker: 1
02:10:48
But some parts of the Dead Sea Scrolls ai the book of Isaiah. Right? That was the one that was Mhmm. Found to be the oldest version of it that was verbatim.
Speaker: 0
02:10:56
Yeah. Well, yeah. It I think it’s just you know, it was too psychedelic. And it was a Too ai. Yeah. I think, I mean, at least in Ezekiel, let’s say, which is
Speaker: 1
02:11:06
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:11:07
Comparable, you know, Daniel two is quite psychedelic. You know, that those were some ethical, you know, some historical, you know, narrative
Speaker: 1
02:11:15
But imagine making that call. Imagine making that call how how long ago
Speaker: 0
02:11:20
Right. A long time ago.
Speaker: 1
02:11:21
To take that story out. Ai don’t I’m not buying this one, guys. Leave it out. Meanwhile, that’s the one that’s the most compelling to
Speaker: 0
02:11:30
me. Yeah. Yeah. So what what what do you like about the Book of Enoch?
Speaker: 1
02:11:34
It was just so bizarre.
Speaker: 0
02:11:35
It’s very bizarre.
Speaker: 1
02:11:35
Because it makes the whole thing it’s like, oh, okay. Now I get the big story. The whole story is crazy. And the origin story, the the book of Enoch, like, as it starts, like, in the very first chapter, you’re ai, wait. What’s going on? Mhmm. Fornication with humans and the race of ai? Like, what? What are you guys describing? Yeah. Things coming down and watchers, what are you guys talking about?
Speaker: 1
02:12:02
Like, what was this? This is so left field of the rest of the ai, but it was included in the same like, those clay pots that they found in Qumran. It was in there too. Like, just you don’t know what to believe. Like, what happened there?
Speaker: 0
02:12:22
Well, yeah. You you ai not not know what to believe, but, you can also, you know, believe in one, way of doing it as well.
Speaker: 1
02:12:32
One way of doing it?
Speaker: 0
02:12:34
Mhmm. As as long as you don’t get doctrinaire. Right.
Speaker: 1
02:12:37
Yeah. Okay.
Speaker: 0
02:12:38
You just hear it yourself.
Speaker: 1
02:12:40
Well, when I think about it, I just go blank. I just try to imagine. Like, what are they even describing? Like, what what does any of that stuff mean? It just seems so alien. There’s watchers and they mate with humans and they create the Nephilim giants that consume and destroy the Earth.
Speaker: 1
02:13:01
Like
Speaker: 0
02:13:02
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:13:03
And just imagine if that was left into the ai and they taught that in school, you’d be like, what happened? Yeah. It sounds completely crazy.
Speaker: 0
02:13:12
Yeah. It was a mistake. Yeah. That’s why there is a flood. As, you know, the works was filled with the violence of the Nephilim. Ai I believe it the reason of the flood.
Speaker: 1
02:13:21
I mean, look, if we’re this size, you know, and we have so many problems with each other, imagine something that’s, like, triple the size of us that’s running around with us, just picking us up and beating us over the head with each other.
Speaker: 0
02:13:34
Yeah. You know, one of the figures in the text is Og and Sihon, who are the kings of the Amorites, in the land before the Hebrews take over. And, you know, they were ai, that they were believed to be giants. They talk about how the, you know, bed of one of these kings, Oger Sihon, was, like, nine feet long or something. Jeez. 13 feet long. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:14:01
So there were a couple still still alive back then.
Speaker: 2
02:14:05
So do
Speaker: 1
02:14:05
you think those arya real humans?
Speaker: 0
02:14:08
They were giants.
Speaker: 1
02:14:09
So you think they were real giants for sure? Are you a 100% convinced that giants roamed the Earth? Like, there was fifteen foot tall humans? It Monstrous humans?
Speaker: 0
02:14:18
It may not have occurred. Well, that that’s the, reason that I think that there is some alternative universe that’s as real as this one, which was the, meh, the, you know, the ai of those A lot of outdoors. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:14:35
So when you say there’s an alternative universe that’s as real as this one, do you think we dance back and forth between possible universes? Do you think we’re always in the constant same universe, or do you think, like, this concept of parallel universes or or alternative universes that these you go back and forth between these?
Speaker: 0
02:14:57
Now? No. I think they’re pretty well separated, don’t you?
Speaker: 1
02:15:01
So you think that the world was a different place back then and that the the the the doorway to go back and forth was easier to traverse?
Speaker: 0
02:15:10
It was one directional, and it ai of was one level of realities ai of, you know, segueing into this one.
Speaker: 1
02:15:18
So do you think these things involved psychedelics while they were doing this, While they were writing all this stuff down?
Speaker: 0
02:15:23
No. No. Ai, it it I think it involved being attuned to a level, you know, that level of of reality. Yeah. Which would be mediated through DMT in some ways. The visions would be mediated through DMT.
Speaker: 1
02:15:38
Yeah. I wonder if it’s possible too if you’re living in a world like, we we can’t even imagine living in a world we’re not environmentally poisoned. Like, we’re we’re constantly surrounded by Wi Fi and five g, and we’re eating microplastics, and glyphosate is on every vegetable.
Speaker: 1
02:15:58
And if there’s we’re, like, in a swoop we’re in a soup of toxins. We can’t even imagine what it’s like to not have that and to not be burdened down by electronics and all the different things that people like, they’re probably very different back then. Just just human beings in general. I I bet they’re probably very different in a lot of ways.
Speaker: 0
02:16:21
Yeah. That’s one of the reasons I like living, in Gallup. It was really kind of
Speaker: 1
02:16:29
Simple? Simple.
Speaker: 0
02:16:30
Yeah. Yeah. There wasn’t much Ai Fi in there.
Speaker: 2
02:16:33
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:16:34
It was just, kind of
Speaker: 1
02:16:35
Simple is good for you. It’s not perfect though. You feel like sometimes cities are fun.
Speaker: 0
02:16:42
Yeah. Yeah. You called me when I was living in Gallup, and you said to me, why are you living there?
Speaker: 1
02:16:51
You’re telling me there’s nothing around you. I was like, why are you living where there’s nothing around you? That’s crazy. Yeah. Get out of there.
Speaker: 0
02:16:57
It was it was it was my monk phase. Well had to go through it.
Speaker: 1
02:17:01
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with going through phases, but I think ultimately people like to be around people. Mhmm. Just but it’s, you know, there’s a point where there’s too many people and then people become like a nuisance to you. You’re stuck on the 405 and like, oh meh god. Look at this traffic. Where are all these people going?
Speaker: 2
02:17:19
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:17:19
And, you know, then people become a burden. There’s a there’s a nice balance to be had somewhere in there. I don’t think it’s like living in in the woods by yourself. Sai think that’s the dream. It was a weird dream. Well
Speaker: 0
02:17:33
yeah. It was, ai by acid. So it’s
Speaker: 1
02:17:36
Oh, yeah. The problem is is you’re if you’re in the woods by yourself, there’s things out there that wanna eat
Speaker: 0
02:17:42
you. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:17:44
If you’re by yourself, they’re gonna know where you are all the time.
Speaker: 0
02:17:48
Yeah. Well, once I was cross country skiing up in the mountains behind Gallup, and I was being tracked by a mountain lion.
Speaker: 1
02:17:53
Of course you were.
Speaker: 0
02:17:54
Seemed like it was me.
Speaker: 1
02:17:55
Like Of course you were.
Speaker: 0
02:17:56
Going across the
Speaker: 1
02:17:57
Probably thinking about taking you out. Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
02:17:59
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:17:59
Yeah. Probably thinking about taking you out.
Speaker: 0
02:18:01
At a certain point, I turned around.
Speaker: 1
02:18:02
Yeah. Yeah. Because if you look like you’re out of breath, you look like you’re ai, like, if they think you’re limping or something like that,
Speaker: 0
02:18:08
oh my god.
Speaker: 1
02:18:09
They can’t help themselves.
Speaker: 0
02:18:10
And the woods really getting dark around meh. So
Speaker: 1
02:18:12
Oh, not good.
Speaker: 0
02:18:13
It’s good to it’s time to turn around.
Speaker: 1
02:18:15
Not good. Yeah. They’re fucking ai. And people have this romantic idea of what a mountain lion is. You say that until it kills your dog in front of you. Listen to me. Those are dangerous predators. California is the most ridiculous way of handling it. Yeah. They they have to hire people to go kill them.
Speaker: 1
02:18:36
And when they find
Speaker: 0
02:18:37
Mountain ai. Yeah. And
Speaker: 1
02:18:38
when they do, they find that 50% of their diet is pets. You’ve got something that 100% eats your dogs and cats Mhmm. And you’re allowing it to live in the woods near your house. Like, this is kooky. Yeah. Ai of them in the mountains, kids. Okay?
Speaker: 0
02:18:58
Yeah. Coyotes are into pets.
Speaker: 1
02:19:00
Oh, yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:19:00
Yeah. Oh, yeah. If if if if a cat is lost for more than a few days around our neighborhood, that’s pretty much it.
Speaker: 1
02:19:06
Oh, if you just let your cat out, you’re basically, like, saying you’re gonna get eaten. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:19:11
I Ai
Speaker: 1
02:19:11
know it. You probably don’t know it because you’re just a cat, but you’re gonna get eaten.
Speaker: 0
02:19:15
That’s why you put them out.
Speaker: 1
02:19:16
They’re everywhere now too. Coyotes are in every single city in The United States.
Speaker: 0
02:19:22
Yeah. You’ve seen coyotes.
Speaker: 1
02:19:24
Oh, fuck. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:19:25
You know, they elope across the road. Yeah. They’ll be beautiful.
Speaker: 1
02:19:28
I’ve had coyote problems where they broke into my chicken coop and killed all my chickens.
Speaker: 0
02:19:33
Yeah. Coyotes do that.
Speaker: 1
02:19:34
Meh. They’re they’re smart too, man. They’re fascinating. Yeah. They they trick dogs into chasing after them, and then they all ambush them. Yeah. They’re very clever.
Speaker: 0
02:19:44
Clever. Yeah. You used to watch the, you know, Ai E. Coyote.
Speaker: 1
02:19:48
He was an idiot. That was so dumb.
Speaker: 0
02:19:50
Yeah. There’s a lot of roadrunners in our neighborhood too.
Speaker: 1
02:19:52
Crazy. The the idea that the roadrunner would be smarter than a coyote. Coyotes are so clever. Mhmm. They’re did you ever read Dan Flores’ book, Coyote America? No. It’s really good. It’s about the origin of the coyote and why the coyote is everywhere now. And part of it is because of the persecution by the gray wolf.
Speaker: 1
02:20:10
So the gray wolves don’t mate with the coyotes, but the red wolves do. The ram the gray wolf so they’re from a totally different ai, so they just just kill the ai. Because the coyote is just a small wolf. And so what they figured out is that when a coyote dies and, like, when they yell out, it’s ai roll call.
Speaker: 1
02:20:29
And if someone’s missing, the females produce more pups. So they have extra pups. And then they spread. So they extra pups and then they move to a new place. And by doing just because they were persecuted by the gray wolves, when they started getting persecuted by humans, you know, ai, so human beings extradited wolves.
Speaker: 1
02:20:47
They they killed them all off except for a few in the upper northern parts of The United States with strychnine, but they couldn’t do it with coyotes. The coyotes just kept moving around and separate they just went to different spots.
Speaker: 0
02:20:59
They’re very smart.
Speaker: 1
02:21:00
They’re super smart. They’re in New York City right now. Right now, there’s coyotes in Central Park in New York City. Little wild wolves running around Central Park. Yeah. I mean Coexistent. Just big enough where they don’t look threatening. They’re just a clever little player of nature’s game.
Speaker: 0
02:21:19
Ai E. Coyote.
Speaker: 1
02:21:20
It’s a really good book, though. But it’s also about, like
Speaker: 0
02:21:22
What’s called called
Speaker: 1
02:21:23
Coyote America.
Speaker: 0
02:21:25
Ai you know, I could have sworn John McPhee wrote about coyotes. Remember John McPhee out in that country, his Alaska book? Well, I’m
Speaker: 1
02:21:33
sure he probably wrote a book about coyotes too. This is just different. This is, about the origins of, you know, ai mythology amongst Native Americans and that there’s thought to be a trickster, and it’s he just, it is a uniquely American animal. You know? It adapts.
Speaker: 0
02:21:51
Yeah. Well, that’s too bad of CD ing your chickens.
Speaker: 1
02:21:54
No. Shah happens.
Speaker: 0
02:21:56
Sorry to hear that. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:21:57
Well, it happened. They got a they got they killed them all. My my chicken’s in California. They got into a chicken coop, and they killed, like, nine of them. So the chicken coop got damaged because of the fire. So we had to, get another chicken coop set up. And so when we’re set up the other chicken coop, it was one that you just buy from, like, a pet store, and it wasn’t that durable.
Speaker: 1
02:22:15
And the the coyotes figured out how to open it, and they just fucked up these chickens. Oh, it’s a mess, man.
Speaker: 0
02:22:22
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:22:23
It was just all feathers.
Speaker: 0
02:22:24
Feathers and blood.
Speaker: 1
02:22:25
Yeah. It was horrible. They just went on a they just killed them all. They killed them all. They killed, like, nine of them. But, you know, that’s the fucking game they play, and I love that they exist. I’m a a fan of coyotes. I like hearing them at night. I think they’re cool. I don’t want them to eat my dog, though. You know, it’s ai and you know, they’re not gonna listen. You know, like, hey.
Speaker: 1
02:22:49
Don’t eat my dog and we’re cool. No. They’re they’re playing a game. It’s ai, wait till you turn your back and they’ll attack your toddler.
Speaker: 0
02:22:57
I I think besides, you know, movie trailers, the things I watch on YouTube, most are animals killing other animals. You know, bear Why
Speaker: 1
02:23:07
do you do that?
Speaker: 0
02:23:07
Versus sai musk you know, muskox.
Speaker: 1
02:23:09
Muskox. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:23:10
Yeah. Grease stories. It’s pretty primal.
Speaker: 1
02:23:13
It is?
Speaker: 0
02:23:14
Yeah. I like that.
Speaker: 1
02:23:15
Yeah. It’s pretty interesting. These people were, in India, and they were on some sort of a a park ai, you know, one of the wildlife parks, and they watched a tiger take out an animal right in front of them. A tiger took out a deer Yeah. Right in front of them. And they filmed it, like
Speaker: 0
02:23:35
What’s what’s, you know, cool well, the ones I like are the warthogs.
Speaker: 1
02:23:40
Oh, they’re so weird looking, aren’t they?
Speaker: 0
02:23:42
Yeah. They’re vicious. They’re huge.
Speaker: 1
02:23:44
They look like a Star Wars character. They don’t even look like a real animal.
Speaker: 0
02:23:47
Yeah. It’s unkosher pork. Interesting thing.
Speaker: 1
02:23:51
It’s unkosher?
Speaker: 0
02:23:52
Unkosher pigs. Yeah. Yeah. The things which are kosher, you know, chew cut and have completely split and separate hooves. Right. Right. Yeah. The those are the main criteria for mammals.
Speaker: 1
02:24:06
Do you think that’s because of ancient diseases? Because this makes sense that we we know that, trichinosis, sai lot of that comes from pork. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:24:20
It always seemed to me pigs are dirty animals, but I I had a friend who was insistent that given the choice, pigs are very clean animals. So it’s hard to say about the filth aspect of it.
Speaker: 1
02:24:32
That’s domestic pigs. Wild pigs are filthy animals.
Speaker: 0
02:24:36
Wild pigs.
Speaker: 1
02:24:37
Yeah. Yeah. All of them. 100% of them. There’s a difference between, like, a domestic pig. This is where it gets really weird. You take a domestic pig and you let it loose in the ai, and six weeks later, it starts to morph. And it starts to extend it to snout, its tusks grow longer, its fur gets thicker, it becomes like a wild pig. That’s kooky.
Speaker: 0
02:25:00
Yeah. I guess the primitive or the early stages are really strong.
Speaker: 1
02:25:06
Yeah. It quickly. It happens quickly, ai, within a month or two. It’s really weird.
Speaker: 0
02:25:11
Yeah. Ai wonder how that works. Meh be some Mediocrine thing. Must be their, you know, gonads and their pituitary and their hypothalamus.
Speaker: 1
02:25:20
It’s a really good question because, like, what would let them hit that switch and realize, okay, I’m on my own now. They’re not just bringing me my food every day. Fuck. Time to get hard.
Speaker: 0
02:25:31
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s well, it isn’t a conscious decision on their part. Yeah. Seems like it just takes over.
Speaker: 1
02:25:38
But I was thinking, like, if the if that animal is not, like, the Muslims don’t eat it and the Jews don’t eat it. And you would imagine at a time where food was really important and if you can get pork, that was way better than not having any meat and you can’t eat it because of your religion.
Speaker: 1
02:25:58
To me, it seems like Sai I bet vatsal least some of the origin of that was there was a disease that was going through these people that were eating pigs.
Speaker: 0
02:26:09
It’s hard to say. You know, the ones that are kosher are the ones which were burnt up in sacrifice as as well. You know, this yeah. There are sheep and cattle.
Speaker: 1
02:26:20
Pull that microphone up to your mouth.
Speaker: 0
02:26:22
Sheep and cattle and goats.
Speaker: 1
02:26:25
Ai.
Speaker: 0
02:26:26
Yeah. Yeah. Those were the sacrificial animals. You know, the ones that were burnt on the altar and also the ones that were eaten.
Speaker: 1
02:26:32
But do you think that why do you think pork was excluded from both Judaism and also from Islam? Consumption of pork.
Speaker: 0
02:26:41
Yeah. It didn’t meet the criteria.
Speaker: 1
02:26:44
The the criteria for what?
Speaker: 0
02:26:45
For a kosher meat. It’s used cud and needs to have a completely separated
Speaker: 1
02:26:51
Right.
Speaker: 0
02:26:51
Completely split food.
Speaker: 1
02:26:52
No. I get that. But, I mean, why why did they come up with that rule? Oh. I think it seems to be that those are the animals that have the most amount of trichinosis, unless you’re eating bears. So I don’t know if they’re eating any bears back then. Probably not. They’re probably eating a lot of deer species.
Speaker: 1
02:27:08
And if you ai to eat that kind of wild pork back then and you didn’t cook it correctly, you probably get violently ill or die.
Speaker: 0
02:27:16
Well, you know, there are causes, you know, there are reasons for some of the precepts in the text. It must be. Right? Yeah. That are medically established.
Speaker: 1
02:27:29
Yeah. Like, shellfish probably has to do with red tide. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:27:33
Well, bottom dwellers.
Speaker: 1
02:27:35
Bottom dwellers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s interesting when you you try to decipher it, like, why did they have that stuff in there? Well, kinda makes sense. Pork, pigs rather do carry a bunch of diseases that can wreck human beings.
Speaker: 0
02:27:52
Yeah. Well, the person then making the dietary laws knew that. You think that’s, the reason they wrote those dietary laws?
Speaker: 1
02:28:02
Yeah. Well, they didn’t have meat thermometers back then. Right? So I bet a lot of people ate some medium rare pork or rare pork even and got violently ill.
Speaker: 0
02:28:10
Sick. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:28:11
Violently ill. Like, trichinosis apparently is brutal. And and you have it for life sai that, like, if somebody eats you, they get trichinosis unless they cook it.
Speaker: 0
02:28:22
Yeah. I had c diff some years ago. I even wrote a book about, about What
Speaker: 1
02:28:27
is c diff?
Speaker: 0
02:28:28
It’s potentially fatal diarrhea. Oh, no. It was grim. Yeah. I wrote well, then, you know, that’s
Speaker: 1
02:28:35
Oh, that’s right.
Speaker: 0
02:28:35
That’s where I just couldn’t do anything for two years.
Speaker: 1
02:28:38
That’s right. That’s right. I forgot that you had that.
Speaker: 0
02:28:41
Yeah. So I wrote a book about it. Anybody’s interested, Joseph Levy escapes death. You know, maybe that’s part of me enjoying watching certain animals, you know, like, you know, animal killing animal. It kind of changes you that being, you know, that being that close
Speaker: 2
02:29:05
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
02:29:06
You know, to the edge.
Speaker: 1
02:29:08
I’m sure.
Speaker: 0
02:29:10
Yeah. You even offered to come out, you know, to visit or to, you know, do a show at my house.
Speaker: 1
02:29:16
Yeah. When you were real struggling and we were going back and forth, you just weren’t sure if you could travel. I was like, oh, I was worried about you.
Speaker: 0
02:29:25
Yeah. Thanks.
Speaker: 1
02:29:26
Because you bounded back. Look at you. You look great.
Speaker: 0
02:29:28
Thanks.
Speaker: 1
02:29:29
But there was a time where I was worried about you because it didn’t you didn’t sound like you were doing well at all. Ai, you were really struggling.
Speaker: 0
02:29:36
Mhmm. And so Yeah. That’s one of the things that pushed well, Ai began reading concentration camp literature Yes. During that phase.
Speaker: 1
02:29:46
Really?
Speaker: 0
02:29:47
Like, how bad have people had it and what did they do? Wow. It was pretty inspiring. I liked reading Primo Levi. He’s my my favorite author, Elie Wiesel too.
Speaker: 1
02:30:00
Yeah?
Speaker: 0
02:30:00
Yeah. Auschwitz and the end of Auschwitz. I mean, like, you know, the end of the last month or two. Mhmm. Seemed like it was really something, you know, typhus and nobody cleaning up after them for weeks, things freezing and bursting.
Speaker: 2
02:30:14
Oh.
Speaker: 0
02:30:15
It was just nuts. So, yeah, Ram Levi was a chemist, very clinical, took notes, remembered things in a very ai of dispassionate, almost journalistic description, and the kinds of things people can go through. Yeah. You know? So that cheered me up in a way. I mean, it distracted meh.
Speaker: 0
02:30:34
Like, boy, you know, they had it way worse, and they had faith in something. So I I think I think that helps, you know, strengthen my faith. Like, God wasn’t done with me.
Speaker: 1
02:30:49
Oh, So did you feel like you had an obligation to get to work once you got healthy again? Ai, God gave you this chance? Yeah. This bounce back? Mhmm. Return of the Meh?
Speaker: 0
02:31:03
Thank God.
Speaker: 1
02:31:05
Yeah. It’s great to see you looking healthy because I really did worry. Because it’s, you know, sometimes people a bad health trip takes them just takes them down and and weakens them so much that they never really come back. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:31:20
Well, you think about death. You must think about death. Sure. Ai think about death.
Speaker: 1
02:31:24
You have to. It’s it’s coming whether you want it or not.
Speaker: 0
02:31:28
Be interesting to not not think about death.
Speaker: 1
02:31:30
Yeah. I don’t dwell on it, but I’m I’m definitely aware
Speaker: 0
02:31:34
of it. Yeah. There is a week or two, friends came over talking about, you know, their their their wishes or their interest in medically assisted death. There’s a big article about that even a couple of months ago in one of the British journals. Yeah. Medically ai death. I you called a rabbi, and I asked his advice.
Speaker: 0
02:32:00
And he said, you know, you might be you know, you you may be obligated to knock the pills onto the floor. I thought that was interesting take.
Speaker: 1
02:32:13
You may be obligated to knock the pills onto the floor.
Speaker: 0
02:32:16
From the person’s hand who’s about to take them? Well, that would
Speaker: 2
02:32:19
be Oh.
Speaker: 0
02:32:20
Yeah. Interesting. Or, you know, within or more the equivalent. You know, like, you know, there might be some drugs going in IV would Right. Right. Stop them up. Yeah. You know, so, well, ai, I like, I I feel pretty good. So I wonder, well, you know, what happens if if I start feeling really bad? Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:32:47
So, you know, I feel good. So I figure, well, just keep me out of pain. Ai can give me enough, you know, morphine. See what happens. My mom died.
Speaker: 0
02:32:56
I watched her die. Oh, wow. And we gave her morphine out of van to Ai Valium. Yeah. It was pretty,
Speaker: 1
02:33:07
Peaceful.
Speaker: 0
02:33:07
Yeah. It was it it was quiet. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:33:09
Yeah. That’s a weird thing, but because you don’t want anybody poisoning anybody. But you do wanna give people the option to go out gracefully.
Speaker: 0
02:33:20
Well, I think you’d just be feeling great.
Speaker: 1
02:33:23
Yeah. Exactly. You’d be feeling great. Gracefully. Ai? Just one burst. I had, a morphine drip when I had my knee operated on once in the nineties, and it was incredible. It was incredible. And I people tell me this is not true, but I swear I remember this being true that you could press the button anytime you wanted more morphine.
Speaker: 0
02:33:46
Meh. Yeah. Ai I think it’s called patient controlled analgesia or something.
Speaker: 1
02:33:50
Yeah. People are like, ai. No. You’re remembering it wrong. I’m like, I don’t think I am, man. I really remember hitting that button a bunch of times and meeting Jesus. It was like a the the most wonderful loving hug by the universe. It was just ai this thing in bed ai my leg is on this, continual motion machine. You know what those are?
Speaker: 0
02:34:14
No. But I can imagine.
Speaker: 1
02:34:15
When they do ACL reconstructions, when they do a patella tendon ram, it’s a pretty violent operation. They have to cut your knee open like a fish. They take a slice of your patella tendon along with a chunk of your bone from your shin and a chunk of your bone from your kneecap, and then they screw it all back in place.
Speaker: 1
02:34:31
And to keep it from seizing up while you’re lying in bed, your leg is on this machine that goes like this, extends it and brings it back, extends it and brings it back. Because ai, it’ll lock up and then you’re fucked.
Speaker: 0
02:34:42
Were you awake when this was happening?
Speaker: 1
02:34:43
Oh, yeah. You’re awake. Yeah. I was awake for the operation. Because my thought is I’m only gonna have one knee operation. I wanna be awake for it. So they did, like, an epidural.
Speaker: 0
02:34:52
An epidural. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:34:53
So I was awake. I watched it. I watched on a monitor. It was crazy. Crazy to watch this guy open my knee up, screw it in place. The point is, while I was in the hospital bed, they had this button that you could press when you wanted more morphine.
Speaker: 2
02:35:08
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:35:08
And I hit that button, like, a bunch of times and I was like, wow. It felt incredible. And I only did and I remember also thinking, boy, this could be a problem. Because I I had done construction with a guy who had a bit of a heroin problem, and so I was aware that people would get, like, a real opiate problem.
Speaker: 1
02:35:29
And when I was in bed, I was like, I get it. I get it now. It feels it feels amazing.
Speaker: 0
02:35:35
Yeah. Well, I would say cool, but yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:35:38
But also, I knew that, like, my leg was fucked. I knew it was gonna take forever before it felt normal again. I was in pain and, like, just like, okay. I can’t do anything, but enjoy this right now. Just like, let me take a couple of taps and
Speaker: 2
02:35:52
we You
Speaker: 1
02:35:53
know, it care anymore.
Speaker: 0
02:35:54
It’s called God’s medicine for, you know, God’s own medicine for a reason.
Speaker: 1
02:35:59
Yeah. It felt like a hug.
Speaker: 2
02:36:00
It felt
Speaker: 1
02:36:01
like the universe giving you a hug.
Speaker: 0
02:36:03
Yeah. Well, interesting you mentioned that one day, the you were, you know, talking about faith and belief and what you base it on. I was just talking about how, when I was living up in Taos, I was feeling kind of alone and sai. And I prayed, you know, I prayed to God, you know, help me. And Ai felt this loving hug kind of embrace me at the at at the moment. Woah.
Speaker: 0
02:36:30
Yeah. Yeah. You know, which must have been, you know, mediated probably by endorphins too. Right. Because if if if if it, you know, sounds pretty similar.
Speaker: 1
02:36:40
But it’s interesting that we always wanna, like, dismiss anything positive like that. Oh, it’s probably just endorphins. Just giving you this Yeah. Good feeling. Yeah. Right. But is endorphins because of or the source of? Like, which one is it? We it it might just be a part of it.
Speaker: 1
02:36:58
Like, yeah, the endorphins are real, but also it’s the experience.
Speaker: 0
02:37:01
It’s the experience that you’re experiencing, you know.
Speaker: 1
02:37:04
And the intention that you’re putting out there. Right.
Speaker: 0
02:37:06
Right? Right. You’re not you’re feeling the end endorphins attaching to the receptors.
Speaker: 1
02:37:10
Exactly.
Speaker: 0
02:37:10
Yeah. You feel wonderful.
Speaker: 1
02:37:12
Yeah. There’s something real to it. Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
02:37:15
Yeah. You know, drugs are interesting. They are. Well, I’m I
Speaker: 1
02:37:20
I just wish they, weren’t being controlled by the cartels. Yeah. That’s what’s crazy. That’s what’s crazy is, like, people are not gonna stop ai. I don’t think I think there’s a lot of drugs you should never use, kids. And there’s a lot of people that should never use any drugs.
Speaker: 1
02:37:33
But the fact that they are always going to and that the only way they can get them is through a criminal organization, and we haven’t done our fucking one plus one equals two on that still in 2025?
Speaker: 0
02:37:46
Yeah. Well, a a dispensary for everything you want.
Speaker: 1
02:37:49
Well, it’s gotta be more than that, man, because some of that stuff’s heavy. So it’s not just gonna be an ex dispensary, but it also has to be some sort of counseling center, some sort of a ai trip. There’s gotta be, like, very clear ethics. You know, you’re gonna have, people that really know what they’re doing and just wanna help and don’t have any weird narcissistic intentions or anything else, Ai just wanna help people.
Speaker: 1
02:38:16
You’d have to have that too because there’s gonna be a lot of freaked out people. If you make mushrooms and acid and all these things legal, you can just go get it. Or arya you 18? Oh, go buy it. Like Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:38:28
I think there should be increased access.
Speaker: 1
02:38:31
I think so too.
Speaker: 0
02:38:31
You know, but
Speaker: 1
02:38:32
I’m I’m not opposed to I’m just saying the reality of the new interface. If we just have all of a bryden, these drugs are not just legal, but legal and available for adults to buy, then you’re gonna deal with a whole new set of problems that didn’t exist before. I’m not saying you shouldn’t deal with that problem. I think I think it’s inevitable. It’s probably gonna happen anyway.
Speaker: 1
02:38:53
But those problems will be uniquely inflated by everything being legal, because people are just gonna go out and go fucking crazy.
Speaker: 0
02:39:01
And why is that?
Speaker: 1
02:39:02
Because if you can go to the bar and you can just go buy acid, do you know how many people are gonna just go get acid? If you could go, like, to any corner liquor store and pick up a pound of mushrooms, like, if it’s just totally illegal. Because you can go to liquor store and get a case of beer. Right? You can get a case of whiskey. You can get, like, 24 bottles of whiskey.
Speaker: 1
02:39:21
That is death by whiskey. There’s no way you’re drinking that tonight. Sir, you can’t buy that many. They never tell you that. Ai, go ahead.
Speaker: 1
02:39:27
Sana wanna spend that money? So if you wanted to do that with mushrooms, and you could go to the liquor store and buy pounds of mushrooms. Well, the
Speaker: 0
02:39:36
you know, the I think with increased access, there’s increased, you know, mortality. There
Speaker: 1
02:39:41
will be. Yeah. Yeah. And there’s not just that. It’s like people that just, like, they ruin their brains. They’re not ready for it. They’re maybe they’re barely hanging on as it is, and then they have too many psychedelic trips. Now they’re really fucked up and
Speaker: 0
02:39:55
Well, you’ll That’s true too. You’ll never hear me advocate for the use of drugs.
Speaker: 1
02:40:00
Good for you.
Speaker: 0
02:40:00
Yeah. I’ve never said people should take drugs. I you know, I say people shouldn’t that they should.
Speaker: 1
02:40:06
How many people are on amphetamines right now?
Speaker: 0
02:40:09
Worst. A lot of people on amphetamines. Ai I’ve got an amphetamine story. Yeah. A friend gave me some Adderall one day. Well, I asked him for it.
Speaker: 1
02:40:22
I like how you came clean. You came clean right away with no prompting. That’s funny.
Speaker: 0
02:40:27
Yeah. He was he had taken it for ADHD. I said help. And I wrote this review. Well, you know, the there used to be a magazine called Shaman’s Ram, which we, which did a book review on the on the DMT book. And, he didn’t think it should be called the spirit ai spirit molecule, rather the dream molecule.
Speaker: 0
02:40:47
Ai I took umbrage, so after I, you know, took the Adderall, I wrote a 20 page letter. It was pretty self, you know, what’s the word, inflated. So yeah. And, you know, the next morning That’s hilarious. I you looked at it, and it was terrible. Yeah. So I I didn’t send it.
Speaker: 1
02:41:16
All my friends who have done I’ve never done Coke. But all my friends who do Coke that do stand up comedy say you can’t do stand up comedy on Coke. Yeah. They say you have no feeling. You don’t ai the you don’t connect with the audience. It’s like it’s like a just a barrier. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:41:30
You could kinda pull it off maybe, but you never really, like, lock in.
Speaker: 0
02:41:34
Yeah. So you’re not funny on it.
Speaker: 1
02:41:36
Yeah. You’re not funny on it. You’re you’re probably detached. You’re probably self obsessed, you know.
Speaker: 2
02:41:44
Yeah. It’s a
Speaker: 1
02:41:44
it’s a weird drive. I just
Speaker: 0
02:41:46
Well, it would be like you were talking to yourself
Speaker: 2
02:41:48
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
02:41:48
And you loved it.
Speaker: 1
02:41:49
You love the sound of your fucking voice. Ai think Adderall’s a lot like that too, though. It’s very similar. Yeah. There’s something similar to that.
Speaker: 0
02:41:58
Yeah. In my case, it was just writing. Just writing, writing, writing. I was feeling like, you know, Ai have a lot to say.
Speaker: 2
02:42:07
Yeah. Ai I’m
Speaker: 1
02:42:07
not even saying you shouldn’t do it, but journalists Ai know do it. I know a lot of journalists who love Adderall. They might not even say they love Adderall, but they fucking love Adderall. I know they do it all the time. And you can, you know, you could blame it on deadlines and, you know, having the right stories and really needing to push through because you don’t have enough time.
Speaker: 1
02:42:29
I I totally get it. And I’m not saying you shouldn’t do it, but it’s just fascinating how many people do it.
Speaker: 0
02:42:35
Yeah. It was the case with PK Dick. He was into amphetamines.
Speaker: 1
02:42:39
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
02:42:40
He died of a stroke.
Speaker: 1
02:42:42
Oh, yeah. I’m sure you’re gonna cook those veins. You’re gonna cook everything. If you’re doing amphetamines all the time, you’re cooking your bryden, son.
Speaker: 0
02:42:49
Do you like Speak Dick?
Speaker: 1
02:42:52
I haven’t read him since high school, you know.
Speaker: 0
02:42:55
Yeah. I went through a phase. Yeah. Well, I was talking about Saint Peter Snow. It’s written by a Viennese Jew mathematician guy named Perutz who did, Saint Peter Snow. And I read all of his books. There’s, like, eight. And, yeah, it’s fun to get to know someone. So once I started, thinking about Dick well, I watched the TV show, what’s it called?
Speaker: 0
02:43:20
The Meh ram the High Castle and got me interested in reading the novel
Speaker: 2
02:43:24
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
02:43:25
By Dick and, went through most of his work.
Speaker: 1
02:43:28
What was the movie they did based on one of his novels?
Speaker: 0
02:43:32
I love Dick or I love PK Dick.
Speaker: 1
02:43:35
There was a movie they did based on one of his novels. Do you remember which one it was?
Speaker: 0
02:43:38
Oh, quite a few. Right. There’s one movie
Speaker: 1
02:43:42
that ai reports. Blade Rockley. Total Recall. That’s right. Justin Sparrow. Total recall was his too?
Speaker: 0
02:43:48
Total total recall. Screamers. We can remember for it whole, we can remember for you we we can remember for you wholesale is the one that was, in vatsal recall.
Speaker: 1
02:44:06
Blade Runner was amazing. The original Blade Runner with Rutger Hauer?
Speaker: 0
02:44:11
This Oh
Speaker: 1
02:44:12
ai god.
Speaker: 0
02:44:13
Did you what about the, oh gosh. The one with Kina Reeves and Robert Downey Junior and the rotoscope?
Speaker: 1
02:44:21
Scanner Darkly.
Speaker: 0
02:44:21
Scanner Darkly through Oh, yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:44:23
Alex Jones is in that, isn’t he? Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:44:27
Meh. So that’s a novel. Wow. My dick. Very interesting.
Speaker: 2
02:44:32
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:44:32
Yeah. The guy with the skin or the suit that changed according to emotions.
Speaker: 1
02:44:39
Remember mood rings? No. Meh those?
Speaker: 0
02:44:43
I think that may have been
Speaker: 1
02:44:45
What happened when I was in high school.
Speaker: 0
02:44:47
Yeah. They
Speaker: 1
02:44:48
had mood rings. You were cool if you had a mood ring when I was in high school. So mood ring, apparently, depending upon your body temperature, would ai, you know, in different hues. Mhmm. You never heard of it?
Speaker: 0
02:45:00
Not really. I’m not Ai, see
Speaker: 1
02:45:01
if you can find mood rings.
Speaker: 0
02:45:02
Yeah. That may have been from the eighties or something.
Speaker: 1
02:45:05
Yeah. I’m old, dude. How old are you?
Speaker: 0
02:45:06
I I ai I was more serious by then.
Speaker: 1
02:45:08
How old do you know?
Speaker: 0
02:45:10
73.
Speaker: 1
02:45:10
Okay. You’re older than me, Don. I’m 58. So, you look great, by the way.
Speaker: 0
02:45:16
I love you.
Speaker: 1
02:45:16
You really do.
Speaker: 2
02:45:17
Yeah. Oh,
Speaker: 0
02:45:17
yeah. You
Speaker: 1
02:45:18
really do. You and you look so much better than you did when you were struggling. Sai it’s really nice to see you bounce back like that.
Speaker: 0
02:45:24
Oh, thanks.
Speaker: 1
02:45:24
This, mood rings became a nineteen seventy sensation. Here we go.
Speaker: 0
02:45:29
Seventies. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:45:30
Here we go. So, I went to high school in ’81, and they were still down with mood rings if you were in the right circles.
Speaker: 0
02:45:39
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:45:40
But, these goofy things, you would wear them and, they’d make your hand green, of course, because they’re made out of ram, ai, the metal was crap. But they have these weird rocks on them that would, change color. Sai if you ai, like, a a photo of one.
Speaker: 0
02:45:57
Oh, yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:45:58
I mean, I don’t know how to feel. But, like, a photo of one changing tyler. That’s not a photo. That’d be a video. I’m sorry. I mean, you know what I’m saying. Like, shah what it looks like. There’s a couple colors. I was trying to think about those. Yeah. It’s kinda kinda cool still.
Speaker: 1
02:46:13
Ai that a real is that a rock? What the fuck is that? What does that? That’s a good question. I don’t know.
Speaker: 1
02:46:17
What is a mood let’s find that out. What is a mood ring made out of? Locked in the bryden. What is it made out of? Is it ai a an a resin or something?
Speaker: 0
02:46:25
It might be some kind of plastic? Acrylic with Right.
Speaker: 2
02:46:29
Or is
Speaker: 1
02:46:30
it a actual rock? Yeah. Okay. So this dude came up with the mood ring? Okay. Okay. Who created the mood ring remains topic of some debate. Jewelry designer named Marvin Wernick says he invented the mood ring years before 1975, developing the idea after he saw a doctor use a thermochromic temperature measuring tape on a patient.
Speaker: 1
02:46:53
Sai he came up with the idea of a mood ring after the stress of working in Wall Street led him to explore biofeedback, a therapeutic technique where people improve their health by responding to signals from their own bodies. So what are the crystals made out of, bro?
Speaker: 0
02:47:08
Crystals. Tyler crystals.
Speaker: 1
02:47:10
What are they? What are the crystals made out? Oh, look how pretty. That’s pretty, isn’t it? Like a a dope ring that’s a mood ring. You know? That way, like, you could tell whether or not your significant other is upset at you. Like, let me look at your fingers. You’re lying.
Speaker: 0
02:47:29
Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, it’s a it’s it’s a, you know, form of, you know, global, you know, communication, The milk keeping secrets.
Speaker: 2
02:47:38
I
Speaker: 1
02:47:38
don’t think it really works. I think it’s only just Heat. It’s heat.
Speaker: 2
02:47:41
If you
Speaker: 1
02:47:41
go to the gym and you slip it on, you look like you’re, like, really angry.
Speaker: 0
02:47:46
Well, if if if your hands are cold.
Speaker: 1
02:47:48
Yeah. Exactly. It’s not gonna work. Yeah. So it’s just dumb. It’s just dumb, but people loved it when I was a kid.
Speaker: 0
02:47:54
Yeah. I think it kinda passed me by.
Speaker: 1
02:47:57
You got lucky. You you missed the dumb mood swing. I was in school. Mood ring swing. When you first this what’s interesting is when you first started those studies and you for and you published DMT, the spirit molecule, did that have an effect on people taking you seriously with all your other work?
Speaker: 1
02:48:19
Was it one of those things where you got labeled now you’re the crazy psychedelic guy who did that nutty study?
Speaker: 2
02:48:28
Or Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:48:29
Was there enough people that were ai, oh, this is great. Now you have a legitimate academic studying this in a federally approved way. This is actually good for everybody, and maybe this opens the door. It certainly opened up the door to the discussion. Like, after you put that book out and and ever and people who if you read that book, you’ll you’ll come to the conclusion that there’s something mighty going on below the surface of of human life in general that can be accessed in this very weird way.
Speaker: 0
02:48:59
Within a second or two.
Speaker: 1
02:49:00
It’s being Banana. I’ve never done it the way you guys did it, but it’s the regular way is bananas. And somehow or another, we’re depriving people of this.
Speaker: 0
02:49:11
Well, I mean, shouldn’t it be the front page news? Yeah. As you can give this drug regularly and and and everybody goes to the same place? Yeah. And it’s a very weird place? Well I think it ought to be on people’s well, it ought to be on people’s lips.
Speaker: 1
02:49:25
DMT stopped my fascination with UFOs because I was like it stopped it paused it, I should say. It paused it because I was like, no matter what a UFO looks like, it’s not as crazy as what I just saw. Like, no matter what, a u just an actual metal flying disc from another planet, I’d be like, yawn. Like, that’s nothing.
Speaker: 1
02:49:43
It’s nothing compared to what exists in a few seconds.
Speaker: 0
02:49:47
Yeah. And, well, would you say that you went to the same place? You you you went back there each ai? Was it the same place?
Speaker: 1
02:49:56
You could tell me. You tell me. I don’t know. I’ve done it differently, and I’ve done it differently with sound, with, Icaros, which is wild. Yeah. That was wild. That was, like, like, dancing things. That was really fascinating when you ai, like, oh, that’s why the music is made the way it’s made.
Speaker: 1
02:50:16
Like, the music is perfect for that.
Speaker: 0
02:50:18
Yeah. You get a lot It’s
Speaker: 1
02:50:19
perfect for the psychedelic trip.
Speaker: 0
02:50:21
I I think you get insight into music by seeing it. Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:50:24
100%. Ai I I think of music differently from that trip.
Speaker: 0
02:50:29
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:50:29
And then, you know, I think Ai I really wanna explore Kundalini yoga. I just have, like, put it off forever. Because I’ve had friends that have done DMT and also do Kundalini yoga, and they’ll tell you, dude, if you work hard enough, you can get to that place. Well, you can get to that place with on the natch completely in your own mind without taking any drug at all, where you could full on DMT trip.
Speaker: 1
02:50:56
And the guy the guy who told me this was very reliable and had experienced DMT. He was also a jujitsu black belt, like a solid guy. Like, I believed him. And he’s like, you can get there.
Speaker: 0
02:51:07
Yeah. Have you ever done or heard about that holotropic breath work?
Speaker: 1
02:51:10
Yes.
Speaker: 0
02:51:11
Yeah. It’s come to it’s Yeah. Ai done that and it it switched me into a very highly altered state.
Speaker: 1
02:51:17
Very highly altered state. It it it felt like, you know, as long
Speaker: 0
02:51:20
as we’re talking drugs, it it felt more like MDMA than it did DMT.
Speaker: 1
02:51:24
I’ve had some moments before I had, like, a big show or something. I just really wanted to relax where I’ll do deep breathing and stretching. Just deep breathing and stretching, and you get high as fuck. It just is weird natural high that happens, ai, you’ll alleviate tension in your body and your body rewards you for it with all this end endorphin rush and dopamine.
Speaker: 1
02:51:47
Ai? And you meh so friendly and so sweet. You just wanna hug everybody. You want everybody to be happy. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:51:53
Sai, like, it like, releases this like, you’re carrying around physical tension that manifests itself in the way you view the world.
Speaker: 0
02:52:01
Well, so
Speaker: 1
02:52:01
And you can get out of it on your own, which is nuts.
Speaker: 0
02:52:04
Yeah. So how do you think well, you know, what what do you think it means that sai built into our systems?
Speaker: 1
02:52:09
I think we need physical activity, and I think, we always have had physical activity. So it wasn’t ever a thing where you had to mandate physical activity. It’s ai we had to to stay alive. So because of that, there’s, like, the body functions in that way. It’s only strong if it’s forced to work.
Speaker: 1
02:52:26
It only has a good immune system if it’s exposed to a certain amount of different people and different bios. It it it it’s it’s a it becomes just like a muscle does when it gets sedentary. It atrophies. And your body act and so that’s the problem with, like, the human civilization. We get into cities. Everything be becomes easier. You’re sedentary most of the time.
Speaker: 1
02:52:50
The body decays, and you’re in a you’re in a state where you’re depressed all the time. You don’t know why. Well, it’s because your your body doesn’t it’s not designed to work like that. For tens of thousands of years, you had to be active. You had to be running around. You had to be carrying things. You had to be getting water. You had to be building things.
Speaker: 1
02:53:06
You had to be hunting things and fishing. You had to be moving because you had to stay ai, and then all of a sudden you’re not. And I think that’s one of the great dilemmas of mental health in this country that’s maybe dismissed by a lot of people. One of the great dilemmas is you’re sedentary.
Speaker: 0
02:53:22
Well, I I think there were some studies comparing Prozac way back when with with a routine of physical exercise and ai in antidepressant.
Speaker: 1
02:53:31
Sai there’s been recent ones with SSRIs that show that it’s more effective, more effective than SSRIs. Yeah. Because we’re not supposed to be sedentary, and nobody wants to be told what to do, and nobody wants to feel bad. I get it. But you you have to feel bad for yourself sai you could feel better later. You just have to get coached. That’s all it is. And don’t resist it.
Speaker: 1
02:53:52
What what Just just embrace it.
Speaker: 0
02:53:53
What about Ozepic though?
Speaker: 1
02:53:56
I I don’t think those things are bad in the right circumstances. I don’t think if you’re a guy and you need to lose 30 pounds, you get on that. Come on, man. You can do that. You can lose I’ll be your friend. I’ll fucking help you. Like, just stop eating sugar. Stop eating bread.
Speaker: 1
02:54:10
Get yourself on a workout schedule. We’re gonna say, I’m gonna get on the fucking bike in the morning. I’m gonna get on that stupid fucking I’m gonna do a Peloton workout every day Mhmm. For a month. You’ll lose 20 pounds that month.
Speaker: 0
02:54:24
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:54:24
You could do it. You just have to be focused. Right. But But if you’re five hundred pounds, if you’re if you’re if you’re morbidly obese, if you’re really addicted to food, you’ve got a real problem, I think it can help you get to a healthy path. That’s what I think it’s really the best for.
Speaker: 1
02:54:38
If you can help people get to a healthy path where they stop overeating, they can get it under control, they get new patterns, and then they start getting addicted to walking maybe, get addicted to feeling better, start being able to do things you couldn’t do before. There’s, like, hundreds of pages of Instagram people who, during COVID, where where they were obese, wind up losing a hundred, two hundred pounds.
Speaker: 1
02:55:00
Do you know who Jelly Roll is?
Speaker: 0
02:55:04
No. But I’ve seen some, you know, some stories, some pictures of people that were very, very, very heavy, 800.
Speaker: 1
02:55:11
Jelly Roll is an amazing musician, an incredible guy who, like, went to jail. He’s got face tattoos, but he’s the sweetest person that’s ever lived. He’s lost, like, 200 pounds in the last year or so. Is it a year and a half, two years? He looks amazing. Yeah. That’s right. Noah’s epic.
Speaker: 0
02:55:29
Noah’s epic.
Speaker: 1
02:55:30
Noah’s epic. Just doing it the right way, sai. But I just think the problem there’s always, like, some sort of a a trade off when it comes to what you do and don’t do. Look vatsal size he used to be and look what he looks like now. Isn’t that insane? Yeah. Isn’t that insane?
Speaker: 0
02:55:46
Amazing.
Speaker: 1
02:55:47
Well He’s the sweetest fucking guy of all time too.
Speaker: 0
02:55:50
Yeah. You know, so you could lose that weight. It’s it’s well, it’s it’s like depression and exercise.
Speaker: 1
02:55:54
But also he’s a wealthy star. Star. He has access to great food. He has a reason to believe his life is gonna be better. He’s got a great life already. Yeah. For most people himself.
Speaker: 0
02:56:04
Yeah. I I think for most people, like, actually developing a real exercise regimen would be way harder than just taking Prozac.
Speaker: 1
02:56:12
Yes. But that’s where a guy like that comes in play. We go, well, he can do it. I ai do it too. Like, what do you what do you have to do? You just have to start slow, keep moving, don’t stop, get get a schedule, put it together, make some progress, note the progress, get excited about progress, keep going.
Speaker: 1
02:56:28
But if Ozempic helps you, like, fucking, I’m for whatever helps you, man. You know, I’ve had a friend that was very close to suicide before he got on SSRIs. I’ll never say there’s no one should ever take SSRIs because I don’t know if he would have bounced back. But he did bounce back, and then he got himself off of them, and then he got healthy. And now he’s great.
Speaker: 1
02:56:47
And this is, you know, with a lot of medications. A lot of medications. A lot of them are they have just real benefits for him, and I think Ozempic is one of those. I think if you’re if you’re a morbid little obese person, one of the things that my friend, Brigham Buehler, who is the CEO of Ways to Well, and Ways2Well, is is also a a pharmacy.
Speaker: 1
02:57:08
They’re a compounding arya, so they make some peptides. And he said, you can make it so that it doesn’t have all the negative effects by making it for the actual size of the person. So you give them the exact dose and combining peptides that’s gonna prevent bone loss and muscle loss.
Speaker: 1
02:57:26
Like, it’s possible to healthily slow the process down, stop the overeating, get the inflammation in check, get the diet in check, but it’s gotta be done ai systemically. Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
02:57:39
And they
Speaker: 1
02:57:39
want you to do it with like a certain amount of exercise per week, and they want you to eat vegetables and meat and just healthy stuff only. Throw out all the bullshit, and let’s try to get this train back on track.
Speaker: 0
02:57:53
Yeah. It reminds me of that PK Dick story. Did you, what’s what was ai called? The three stigmata of Palmer Eldridge. It’s about competition between an in an extra stellar interstellar psychedelic versus a terrestrial ai, which company was going to be able to, you know, sell the psychedelic or the the world view of choice.
Speaker: 0
02:58:16
You know, the one that came from ram earth got people into into Perky Patty’s world where everybody was this big, and they all lived in this house together and did stuff, ai, when I went to the beach and had barbecues and things. You know, that was the terrestrial psychedelic that was competing against sai interstellar psychedelic, which was completely horrible. It was weird. It was ai you never stopped tripping.
Speaker: 1
02:58:47
Like Oh, no. Oh, no.
Speaker: 0
02:58:50
Yeah. And, you know, that was gradually spreading.
Speaker: 1
02:58:52
Oh, that well, I think that’s everybody’s fear when they do something. Like, oh my god. What if this never ends? What if this is my new reality? Like, oh my god. I’m done. I’m dead. Yeah. I’m gone.
Speaker: 0
02:59:02
It’s always been this way. It will always be this way. Yeah. That was my worst trip ever.
Speaker: 1
02:59:06
Right. And then for people with severe anxiety, some people just don’t bounce back well from something like vatsal. And that’s why never advocate drugs to to anybody.
Speaker: 0
02:59:14
I never have.
Speaker: 1
02:59:15
Yeah. I know you haven’t. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:59:16
Well, you
Speaker: 1
02:59:17
didn’t even wanna admit that you did them when we first started talking.
Speaker: 0
02:59:20
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:59:20
You didn’t even wanna admit you smoked pot.
Speaker: 0
02:59:22
Yeah. At this point, you know.
Speaker: 1
02:59:23
But I think you thought back then, like, to be taken seriously as a researcher.
Speaker: 2
02:59:27
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
02:59:28
Yeah. That’s true. But I’ve I’m, you know, less of a researcher now, so I don’t have that same kind of, you know, camouflage to wear.
Speaker: 1
02:59:36
Yes. Well, I’m glad. Because, ai, without you, the the understanding of what that experience is would would be greatly diminished in popular culture. I don’t think people would really understand what it is if it wasn’t for that book. And I know you shah to really stick your neck out to try to make something like that. Yeah. And it’s bizarre because it is a thing.
Speaker: 1
02:59:57
It’s a real thing. And you should know about real things. You should know about real things that have probably been in human use for thousands and thousands of years and hidden from you by Nixon.
Speaker: 0
03:00:11
Mhmm. Yeah. The thing I like so much about DMT is that it’s endogenous. It’s made in it’s it’s made in the brain. Yeah. Yeah. Do
Speaker: 1
03:00:20
you think it’s what we’re making when we’re dreaming?
Speaker: 0
03:00:22
It might be what we’re making right now. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. That’s, one idea is that it regulates consensus reality by maintaining itself at a certain concentration in the brain.
Speaker: 1
03:00:33
I buy that, but I buy a lot of things.
Speaker: 0
03:00:35
It it’s the matrix. It’s the endometrix. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you ai, I’m about the matrix or this red laser and DMT.
Speaker: 1
03:00:44
Oh, yeah.
Speaker: 0
03:00:44
Yeah. Tell
Speaker: 1
03:00:46
people about it because it’s nuts.
Speaker: 0
03:00:48
Yeah. I ai I don’t know much about it.
Speaker: 1
03:00:50
You haven’t done it?
Speaker: 0
03:00:51
No.
Speaker: 1
03:00:52
Sai, apparently, it’s a red laser. And if you’re tripping on DMT and you look down or below so you could either look from below it, look up, or from above it, look down. Right? Is that correct?
Speaker: 0
03:01:05
I didn’t know there was a directional
Speaker: 1
03:01:07
I think it’s a directional thing. I don’t think if it’s on the wall, you read it. I think you have to get above it and look down.
Speaker: 0
03:01:12
Okay. I don’t know.
Speaker: 1
03:01:13
I haven’t done it. Yeah. But I think that’s what they say.
Speaker: 0
03:01:16
And if you do that, you see code. Ai. Yeah. Like, let you know, like The Matrix. Yeah. Well, or Japanese.
Speaker: 1
03:01:22
If there’s anybody that you believe that life isn’t real,
Speaker: 2
03:01:24
it’s me.
Speaker: 0
03:01:25
Life isn’t real?
Speaker: 1
03:01:26
That it’s not real. Like, that that maybe there is some sort of magical quality to this experience. Some sort of, very difficult to grasp aspect of reality that we ignore that’s spiritual or mystical or there’s something going on outside of just normal physical reality.
Speaker: 0
03:01:51
Well, I think things wouldn’t be this way otherwise because certain things are encouraged and certain things are discouraged.
Speaker: 1
03:01:59
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
03:01:59
And, you know, cause and effect goes a certain way. It’s not neutral. Right. It, you know, it kind of, you know, pushes you in one direction. Mhmm. Yeah. So who created cause and effect? What are cause and effect causes? Ai. Yeah. Motivations.
Speaker: 1
03:02:14
What are what are angels and demons?
Speaker: 0
03:02:17
Yeah. Right?
Speaker: 1
03:02:18
What is where where evil where does evil come from? We know it’s real. Mhmm. Where does good come from? We know it’s real. It’s ai, everybody wants to be so smart that they dismiss the idea of angels and demons. It’s really fascinating because they’re really just a word for an actual force that creates a a damaging, terrifying, or wonderful, amazing effect, good and evil.
Speaker: 0
03:02:44
Right. Right? Angels and demons.
Speaker: 1
03:02:46
Yeah. Like, this the effect is real, and we both know that people are capable of either one. It’s one of the reasons why we love people, though, is because we love great people because we know that there’s terrible people. We love people that are warm and friendly and kind and sweet because we know that there’s people that are out there that are self serving and shitty and mean, you know, and that that’s we need one to appreciate the other, and that’s what’s so fucked up about being a person.
Speaker: 0
03:03:13
Yeah. Well, in, the text anyway, angels are intermediaries. You know, like, you know, God has nobody. Right? So how can God interact with the world? You know, so the angels are the inter intermediaries.
Speaker: 1
03:03:26
That makes sense.
Speaker: 0
03:03:27
Yeah. Like DMT in a way is the most spiritual of the physical.
Speaker: 1
03:03:31
What do you think about the people that try to connect UAPs with angels?
Speaker: 0
03:03:37
I don’t know. Have you
Speaker: 1
03:03:39
ever had a UAP, UFO I
Speaker: 0
03:03:41
don’t think so.
Speaker: 1
03:03:42
Alien experience?
Speaker: 0
03:03:42
No. Ai never no. Not really. What about you? No. I’m trying, bro. You’re trying how do you try?
Speaker: 1
03:03:50
I’m trying. I get on the rooftop. I got a flashlight. No. I I wish yeah. I wish I saw something. I wish I saw something that I was, like, 100%. There’s no way that’s ours.
Speaker: 0
03:04:00
Right.
Speaker: 1
03:04:00
It’d be cool.
Speaker: 0
03:04:01
Yeah. That’s never happened. But
Speaker: 1
03:04:04
and I don’t think they’re all lying. I don’t think that’s the case.
Speaker: 2
03:04:09
I don’t
Speaker: 1
03:04:09
think they’re all lying. There’s too many of them that that tell a story that it just doesn’t seem like bullshit. Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
03:04:16
Has has Whitley Ai been on your show?
Speaker: 1
03:04:19
No. He’s an odd one because he’s a fiction ai. You know? Not that I don’t believe him, but when a guy writes fantastical fiction for a living and then has a fantastical fictional experience that actually happens to him that becomes his his thing. Mhmm. It’s like Arsenio Hall said, things that make you go I’m not saying that it it didn’t actually happen to him because his his experience it would be ironic if it did because then nobody would believe him because he writes fiction.
Speaker: 1
03:04:49
Right? But his experiences mirror a lot of the experiences from the John Mack book, you know. Did you read that book, Abduction?
Speaker: 0
03:04:58
Yeah. I knew John Ai the day. Yeah. I liked him. Very smart guy.
Speaker: 1
03:05:02
Those, stories and that was back before the Internet really where there was any social media or anything like that back then. Those stories were oddly uniform.
Speaker: 0
03:05:15
Well, they were. And, you know, John Mack, the psychiatrist
Speaker: 2
03:05:18
from, you
Speaker: 0
03:05:19
know, from Harvard or Cambridge, yeah, we talked about the similarities between his, you know, subjects reports and our DMT volunteers, he thought we had, you know, come across a technology that would make contact, at least the experience of contact, you know, something that could be studied scientifically. Jeez.
Speaker: 1
03:05:45
Someone should reignite that idea right now.
Speaker: 0
03:05:48
Yeah. I’m surprised DMT is not in the news more.
Speaker: 1
03:05:51
Well, there was a study that they were doing in England. Correct?
Speaker: 0
03:05:55
Yeah. There’s a couple of groups.
Speaker: 1
03:05:56
Where they were doing a long term drip, not like yours. So yours was, like, one push. Sai think theirs is, like, a drip.
Speaker: 0
03:06:02
Yeah. Thirty minutes to sixty minutes.
Speaker: 1
03:06:03
Kooky like that. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
03:06:05
Yeah. And there’s a group in Switzerland. John Dean at UC San Diego is gonna start one. So there’s at least three around the world.
Speaker: 1
03:06:17
It’s a real place that you can go to, and that’s what’s nuts.
Speaker: 2
03:06:20
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
03:06:20
And for people that never experienced anything and they’re teetoddlers their whole life, it sounds crazy. I know it sounds crazy.
Speaker: 0
03:06:28
Yeah. Well, you know, what what do you think of the beings? Do you think the beings are are outside of us?
Speaker: 1
03:06:35
Do you think they’re disembodied souls
Speaker: 2
03:06:37
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
03:06:37
Or do you think they’re inside us all the time? Well, if they’re inside us all the time, then we’re everything. Then inside of us is just somehow connected to everything. It’s we’re not individuals at all. We we are everything. We’re all of us are everything. If if they are inside of us, and they may be inside of us.
Speaker: 1
03:06:54
It might might all it might be the idea of, like, a physical boundary is just nonsense. Like, who gives a fuck where it’s from? It’s all everywhere all the time. You just don’t have access to it right now.
Speaker: 2
03:07:04
You don’t have access to it in
Speaker: 1
03:07:04
your default state because your default default state because your default fundamental state is a primate, you know, but it’s in there. And, occasionally, you have access to it. You have access to it near death experiences. You have access to it holotropic breathing. But if you had access to it all the time, you wouldn’t be able to exist in this barbaric state that you live in.
Speaker: 0
03:07:26
Well, I think it has to do with the dose. I mean, if it’s really ai, if if their levels are really high in the in the brain and the mind. Yeah. You know, the, this could be just a DMT simulation. Ai not the first
Speaker: 1
03:07:39
one. Right.
Speaker: 0
03:07:39
Yeah. And and It could be. In in which case, there still is cause and effect.
Speaker: 1
03:07:43
Well, just imagine a world where this wasn’t reality, but then you got to experience this. It would be completely psychedelic. You’d be like, what is this fucking crazy world?
Speaker: 0
03:07:52
It’d be different. Yeah. It’s it’s the three d and the shadow people. Just Do
Speaker: 1
03:07:56
you know how weird it is sometimes if you just stand on a corner and watch people just walking and looking at their phones?
Speaker: 0
03:08:04
Yeah. Well, there’s a lot
Speaker: 1
03:08:06
of kidnapped and they don’t even know it.
Speaker: 0
03:08:08
Yeah. There’s a lot of that here. It’s Everywhere. Yeah. Everywhere. So Ai moved back to Albuquerque last year.
Speaker: 2
03:08:16
Oh, yeah?
Speaker: 0
03:08:16
Yeah. After fourteen years in Gallup was plenty. Nice. So it’s cool building ai. Sai do.
Speaker: 1
03:08:23
Nice.
Speaker: 0
03:08:23
Yeah. And we have a front lawn and a back lawn.
Speaker: 1
03:08:26
There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Albuquerque is home to some of the greatest mixed martial arts fighters ever. Yeah. Yeah. John Jones lives in Albuquerque.
Speaker: 0
03:08:34
Right.
Speaker: 1
03:08:34
Greatest of all time.
Speaker: 0
03:08:36
Yeah. I love Shout
Speaker: 1
03:08:37
out to Albuquerque. I Jackson Winkle, John in
Speaker: 0
03:08:39
the house. Yeah. I I love New Mexico. That’s great.
Speaker: 1
03:08:43
Well, it’s a crazy state with a rich history and beautiful landscape. Oh my god. I have a friend who, just got back from elk hunting there. He was raving about how gorgeous it was out there.
Speaker: 0
03:08:55
The sky is great. We have a pretty cool governor. Be before she was governor, she was the secretary of health.
Speaker: 1
03:09:02
Oh, cool.
Speaker: 0
03:09:03
You know, during during COVID. And sai, you know, she knows public health.
Speaker: 1
03:09:07
And she’s a nice lady. Yeah. You like her? Yeah. Beautiful. Thanks for being here, man. It was a lot of fun. It always is. It’s always great to see you. It’s been great to be your friend all
Speaker: 0
03:09:17
all these years. Oh, meh, Ben. It’s great
Speaker: 1
03:09:18
to see you healthy.
Speaker: 0
03:09:19
Yeah. It’s great. Yeah. Same. You ai, you know, pretty wonderful yourself. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Is my DMT in the Soul of Prophet’s Yeah.
Speaker: 1
03:09:29
It’s right here.
Speaker: 0
03:09:30
There it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It it it’s pretty old.
Speaker: 1
03:09:33
Hold that sucker up so people can buy it.
Speaker: 0
03:09:35
It came in I mean, it came out in 2014. Yeah. It’s, you know, what’s the Soul of Prophecy? Is it the visions or is the is it the message?
Speaker: 1
03:09:45
So, and then there’s the other books that are available. DMT, the spirit molecule, which is what got me into you in the first place. What a great cover too, that Alex Gray artwork.
Speaker: 0
03:09:53
Well, you know, his artwork is on the second book too. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
03:09:57
Yeah. Right. Right?
Speaker: 0
03:09:59
Yeah. That’s Alex Gray as well.
Speaker: 1
03:10:00
He’s amazing. Ai meh, that guy there’s no one ever ai captured the DMT state quite like him.
Speaker: 0
03:10:05
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
03:10:06
You know?
Speaker: 0
03:10:07
He’s pretty good.
Speaker: 1
03:10:08
And it’s just beautiful work, like, a stud like, and that crazy chapel of sacred mirrors that he has now
Speaker: 2
03:10:13
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
03:10:14
The three d printed, like, chapel.
Speaker: 0
03:10:17
Do you have any do you have any of his original art? No. No. Ai me. I’ve got the spirit molecule. Oh. It’s so cool.
Speaker: 1
03:10:24
That’s awesome.
Speaker: 0
03:10:24
It’s it’s in the hallway. Yeah. It’s good.
Speaker: 2
03:10:26
He’s been
Speaker: 1
03:10:26
a sweet guy, though. I’ve I’ve talked to him a few times. Alright. Thank you very much. Thanks for being here.
Speaker: 0
03:10:30
Hey, Jack.
Speaker: 1
03:10:31
Really appreciate you. Goodbye ai ai.