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#2378 – Charlie Sheen Podcast Episode Description
Charlie Sheen is an actor best known for his leading roles in films such as “Platoon,” “Wall Street,” “Major League,” and “Rooftop Killer,” and television shows including “Spin City” (for which he won a Golden Globe Award) and “Two and a Half Men.” His new book, “The Book of Sheen,” is available now. He is featured in the Netflix documentary, “AKA Charlie Sheen,” streaming now. Charlie has recently co-founded a new non-alcoholic beer brand called Wild AF, which will be available in October. Born Carlos Estevez, Sheen lives in Malibu, CA, where he grew up.www.charliesheenbook.com
www.netflix.com/title/82024990www.wildafbrewing.com
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#2378 – Charlie Sheen Podcast Episode Summary
Based on the provided context, the phrase “has joined the group” refers to someone becoming a member of a group, band, club, or team. Throughout the conversation, there are multiple references to joining various groups, inviting members, and welcoming new people. Specific examples include:
– “we joined the band”
– “He should’ve joined the…”
– “Join the team.”
– “Welcome to the club.”
– “add one more bestie.”
– “they’re in, they’re in.”
– “invite you to…”
These statements all indicate the act of someone joining or being added to a group or collective. However, the context does not specify exactly who “has joined the group” in a particular instance. The general meaning is clear: it signifies the addition of a new member to a group. If you are looking for a specific individual who joined a specific group, that information is not explicitly provided in the context.
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#2378 – Charlie Sheen Podcast Episode Transcript (Unedited)
Speaker: 0
00:01
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
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Speaker: 1
00:03
The Joe Rogan experience.
Speaker: 0
00:06
Showing my day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
Speaker: 2
00:13
Great to finally meet you, man.
Speaker: 1
00:14
It’s great to meet you. It’s a trip and and, you know, walking in, and I’m thinking, is there how is it possible that our paths didn’t cross Sai know. All those years? I mean, it’s it’s it’s conceivable we were in the same venue or the same building or at the same party or at least Probably.
Speaker: 2
00:32
Something. I kind of avoided parties. I I avoid basically everything. I avoided parties. I avoided, premieres. Any anything where there’s a red carpet, ai, even if I was in a movie, I wouldn’t go on the red carpet. I’d go in through the back door.
Speaker: 1
00:50
Seriously?
Speaker: 2
00:50
Yeah. I don’t like it. Wow. Wow. I don’t like all that that fucking look over here. Look over here. That is just Yeah. Too fake for me. It just whatever allergy I have to that flares, and I’m like, I’m going into the back door. Fuck this.
Speaker: 1
01:03
Yeah. No. I don’t I don’t blame you. Like it. I don’t blame you. They they stopped, showing me where the back door was because I I I support a similar entrance thing.
Speaker: 2
01:17
It’s just too weird.
Speaker: 1
01:18
But it’s that it’s look over here. Look over here. It’s that thing. Something happens in that moment. Yeah. And I think it’s like it’s it it brings you as close to possibly, sterilization as you can get without, you know, surgery.
Speaker: 2
01:32
I think it’s bad for you.
Speaker: 1
01:33
Yeah. I
Speaker: 2
01:34
think it’s I think it’s ai radiation.
Speaker: 1
01:36
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:36
Like, you could take a little bit of it, but, you know, you don’t wanna be working the X-ray machine your whole life.
Speaker: 1
01:41
No. No. And then there’s always that one lady who keeps calling you back to her.
Speaker: 2
01:44
Charlie. Charlie.
Speaker: 1
01:45
Right. Far left. Far left. Far left.
Speaker: 2
01:47
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:48
And you’ve looked at her, like, seven times already.
Speaker: 2
01:50
Mhmm. And
Speaker: 1
01:51
then I’m I’m out there thinking, if it took me this many takes to get a scene right, nobody would ever hire me.
Speaker: 2
01:57
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:58
You wouldn’t get past the first the first day.
Speaker: 2
02:00
Well, they wanna get a million pictures just to get that perfect one with just a little bit of side eye to you, just a little something. Right. Little purse of the lips. Little something. One
Speaker: 1
02:08
that kinda ai. To something.
Speaker: 2
02:10
Yeah. That’s the one.
Speaker: 1
02:11
Yeah. But then they chew which one do they always choose? The one that’s absolute dog shit.
Speaker: 2
02:16
Yeah. The one with your mouth open. Exactly. Exactly. Close. Yeah. Yeah. Sai I what I really don’t like is the people who like it. Not that I don’t like them, is that I don’t wanna ever see that in myself. And so when I’d be around them, I would just go, oh, I gotta get out of here.
Speaker: 1
02:33
Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
02:34
Right. Freaking out. The trappings.
Speaker: 1
02:36
The trappings. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, is there because it feels like, that system’s been in place for over a hundred years. Right? Is there another is there another way to do it?
Speaker: 2
02:49
Probably not. No? People like it. You know, photographers like it. The press likes it. It’s a big thing. There’s a lot of people. There’s a lot of lights flashing. It seems legit.
Speaker: 1
02:58
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. I just, I don’t I can never, feel relaxed when everybody’s yelling. Right. You know? It’s that’s just
Speaker: 2
03:07
Totally unnatural.
Speaker: 1
03:08
It’s completely unnatural.
Speaker: 2
03:10
The only way that would be happening in real life is if, like, you were on ai. You know? Like, you’re being paraded in front of a bunch of people. Hey,
Speaker: 1
03:17
Jim. There he
Speaker: 2
03:17
is. Look over here. You know? It’s odd.
Speaker: 1
03:21
It’s very odd. Yeah. It’s almost it’s a form of a purp walk, isn’t
Speaker: 2
03:25
it? A little bit of a purp walk Yeah. And just a a little bit of, a mental illness exhibition. Right. You know?
Speaker: 1
03:32
Yeah. I just had it for the first time, like, last it would have been last Thursday.
Speaker: 2
03:38
The first time ever?
Speaker: 1
03:39
No. For the first time in, like A lot. In, like, maybe over a decade, at the Netflix premiere for the yeah. Yeah. And it was, it was kinda cool, like, the first, you know, thirty four seconds. I was like, okay. I remember this. And then it was like, yeah. Sai I I fucking remember this. Wow. Damn.
Speaker: 1
03:59
And then I like, I’m I’m in the just right ai the sun just beating right on my on my floor, and it’s just I could feel myself start to sweat. Now I’m questioning the whole outfit, you know, the underwear choice, all of it. It’s just, like, every decision I made leading up to that was completely wrong. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
04:17
And and it’s all being meh. You know?
Speaker: 2
04:20
It’s so odd. Yeah. What’s really funny at the when Ai when you first walked into the studio, you brought up a tweet that I had sent in 02/2011. Sai think this is when you were going crazy.
Speaker: 1
04:33
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
04:34
And, I think this is also when my friend Russell Peters was doing those tours with you.
Speaker: 1
04:38
Oh, that’s right.
Speaker: 2
04:39
I said, I need to get Charlie Sheen on my podcast. I know it’s a long shot. What a boy could dream. Everybody knows him. Help me hook it up. Well, here we are fourteen years later.
Speaker: 1
04:47
You know, it takes what it takes. Right?
Speaker: 2
04:49
Yeah. It’s funny because back then, I don’t think I had no guests. I think I had Anthony Bourdain was the only, like, real guest that I had had by the time. Yeah. He was 2,011 as well.
Speaker: 1
04:59
And and how many shows had you done by then?
Speaker: 2
05:01
Not that many by then. I don’t know.
Speaker: 1
05:03
So were you just doing solo shows? Just ai covering topics?
Speaker: 2
05:05
I would do it mostly with my ai, mostly with other comics. Okay. We would just sit and talk shit
Speaker: 1
05:11
and then eventually Your house?
Speaker: 2
05:12
Or Yeah. It was in my house back then.
Speaker: 1
05:14
Okay. Sai it looked nothing like ai?
Speaker: 2
05:16
No. No. No. It saloni had to get out. It it’s ai Sai had too many weirdos that I had to bring by my house, and I have young kids at the time. They’re really young. I was ai, this is just too strange. Bring these weirdos Yeah. Sure. By my house and, you know, it was just too odd.
Speaker: 2
05:30
I was like, maybe some people shouldn’t know exactly where I Right. I sleep.
Speaker: 1
05:34
Right. Right. Yeah. And it’s interesting because driving here, Ai was buried in my phone just, you know, for for the right reasons. So I have no idea where we are. Good. So it was kinda like a the version of being blindfolded with a with a sack over my head. You know?
Speaker: 2
05:48
Yeah. That’s probably how we should do it.
Speaker: 1
05:52
Can you imagine then, like, I’m the guy they’re blaming for introducing this?
Speaker: 2
05:56
Just put everybody in a blindfold and put them in the back of an SUV ai drive them to an undisclosed location.
Speaker: 1
06:01
And make the guy drive a few circles around in, like, some, you know, neighborhood right over there. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
06:05
Yeah. Yeah. But we did it. We’re here. That those things that you did with Russell Peters were so fascinating. It was the whole thing was so fascinating. I watched the Netflix thing. I watched the first episode. And the the the whole experience of watching the guy from Platoon, the guy that everybody knows is is like this gigantic super cool movie star, hot shah, all these different things.
Speaker: 2
06:32
To watch you just not just go off the rails with drugs, but, like, be super open about it. You’re ai the first guy super open about it, you know. And everybody just embraced it. Instead of it being ai, oh, Charlie Sheen’s doing drugs. That’s so sad. It was like, we love him.
Speaker: 1
06:52
Keep going.
Speaker: 2
06:53
It was kind of crazy. Keep going. All the tiger blood stuff and winning. Everybody was saying winning all the ai. And it it what was that like for you? Was that ai was it the worst kind of reinforcement? Or what or did it let you like, were you surprised by it?
Speaker: 1
07:10
That’s a great way to describe it. It was it it is yeah. I the worst kind of reinforcement. Yeah. It was ai, unintentionally or otherwise celebrating the the the the the a guy’s demise.
Speaker: 2
07:24
Right.
Speaker: 1
07:25
You know? And and and Ai guess the the the train wreck was so spectacular that there was such a spectacle that they couldn’t turn away, but they were also being invited in to to follow it down the tracks. Yeah. You know? And and somebody asked me about it, and and and Ai, you know, I don’t know if I was the conductor, if I was riding a caboose, or both simultaneously.
Speaker: 1
07:47
It was a trip because thinking back on it, it’s you know, some of it just kind of exists in in it just Polaroid snapshots that kinda drift past through the mist. You know? Mhmm. Other other moments are in high def, but kinda seen through a tunnel vision.
Speaker: 2
08:04
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
08:05
Like and and and it’s it was I there was an energy or it sai there was an energy I tapped into that felt like I was playing a role, but I couldn’t figure out if, you know, what the move what the plot was, who my costars were, where somebody, you know, somebody show up with the, like, a page one rewrite.
Speaker: 2
08:26
Right.
Speaker: 1
08:27
That’s what we fucking need. You know? Yeah. And it and it got away from meh. And and had it not been encouraged, I think it could have been curtailed. It could have been shut down a lot sooner. Right.
Speaker: 2
08:40
I mean, you you become kind of captured to the image.
Speaker: 1
08:43
Yes. Yeah. And there was something that and just recently, something I stumbled onto, it’s, I was I was in in some way, I was being a bully. It had a bullying kind of energy about it, you know, and I’ve never been that guy.
Speaker: 2
09:01
How so? How so are you bullying?
Speaker: 1
09:03
The way I was attacking people and the way I was challenging people. I was a tough guy on the block and had all these soldiers. I had this called cadre behind meh, and it was like, you know, inviting people into the ring. I’ve never been in the ring. What are we doing? You know?
Speaker: 2
09:16
You’re on cocaine.
Speaker: 1
09:18
That’s my
Speaker: 2
09:19
It’s total cocaine behavior.
Speaker: 1
09:21
Among other things. Yeah. And and I think, there was a whole testosterone component as well that was, out of hand just out of control because there’s you know, what do they meh? Like, a quarter sai dollop and, like, every other day? And no. I I there’s a line in the book where I say I was I was slathering that that shit on like a fucking Ponds commercial.
Speaker: 2
09:42
Oh, so you’re using the cream? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
09:44
Yeah. Yeah. Which is hard to measure.
Speaker: 2
09:47
It’s not just hard to measure. It gets on other people. Oh. I read the story about this guy who is on TRT cream, and his child started, like, showing signs of, premature development.
Speaker: 3
10:00
Oh.
Speaker: 2
10:00
And they realized that this kid’s testosterone level was through the roof because it’s through the dermis. Right? It’s through the skin. So he’s getting it on his arya, and then he’s hugging his child and the kid is getting juiced.
Speaker: 1
10:13
Like, what were the kid’s numbers? Do we know? We don’t know. Like in the 70 I don’t think they released that,
Speaker: 2
10:17
but they they said that it probably permanently affected the kid’s development. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. Because this kid is, like, experiencing puberty at three. You know, you’re getting bombarded with testosterone
Speaker: 1
10:30
Sure.
Speaker: 2
10:30
While your dad is holding you.
Speaker: 1
10:31
Insane. Insane. Is that part of the reason they recommend, like, an inner thigh application?
Speaker: 2
10:38
I guess then the only person who would get it is the person you’re having sex with.
Speaker: 1
10:40
Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Or or your horse.
Speaker: 2
10:44
Right. Yeah. Or your horse. It’s ai good for the horse. Right. So there was testosterone and cocaine together at the same time. That’s that sounds like a combination of hubris.
Speaker: 1
10:55
And a lot of rage.
Speaker: 2
10:55
And a lot of rage.
Speaker: 1
10:56
Lot of rage. But the rage, I think, it’s it’s interesting because when you finally get some distance from something, you start to realize that that it wasn’t really so much about what you said it was about in the moment. Mhmm. And I and I’m, you know, really realizing it was wasn’t about the job, wasn’t about junk. It was it was about all the stuff in my personal life.
Speaker: 1
11:15
You know? It was about ai to just be be a certain guy at work, be a certain guy at home, and then just never having the time to be a certain guy with me. And I just I just couldn’t I couldn’t find any place to to find ai refuge or solace or any type of just a moment to breathe to just to decompress.
Speaker: 1
11:35
You know? That’s so important. Yeah. And I there was a it’s not in the book because I can’t really I don’t remember it well enough to put it in the book, and that was kinda how I decided what’s in there and what’s not. Right? Or if something just isn’t true, it’s not in the book.
Speaker: 1
11:51
And so, but it it, you know, I was I was I was trying to just kind of, you know, ai, you know, I I I Ai went through two divorces and and had four children during during that run of eight years. You know? And sai,
Speaker: 2
12:13
That’s crazy.
Speaker: 1
12:13
It’s insane. Yeah. And and they both you know, they they fell apart for for for married reasons and whatever. And and but did did there there wasn’t time to heal the last one before the next one
Speaker: 2
12:27
Right.
Speaker: 1
12:27
Kicked off. And but that’s all on me. You know what I’m saying? That’s all on me making those decisions. Yeah. That’s one of the three lines in the book is that it, like, really comes down to really being all about choices. You know? But then yeah. And and and and but it it’s just to for for it to be just talking about the bullying stuff, you know, for it to be so so directed vatsal guy who let’s like if you really break it down, what did he really do to me?
Speaker: 1
13:00
He created this environment with a dream character in a in an in a in an amazing shah, or so people tell me. Right? That that that was the, you know, the toast of the town. Right? And and all he asked ram me was to just, like, you know, just show up, be responsible, know your lines, hit your marks, do your fucking job. You know?
Speaker: 1
13:23
That the the the those were the only demands. Essentially, the stuff I told him before I took the job that I was going to do.
Speaker: 2
13:34
So and
Speaker: 1
13:34
then I turned it into that. You know? It it’s really difficult to really look back on that and figure out why it got that far, how it got that far.
Speaker: 2
13:44
Ai can help you out.
Speaker: 1
13:45
Okay.
Speaker: 2
13:46
Testosterone and cocaine.
Speaker: 1
13:47
Testosterone and cocaine. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
13:49
They don’t have you Yeah. Having all kinds of conversations with people in your head that’ll tell you exactly what’s what you’re doing is correct.
Speaker: 1
13:56
Right. So Sai lost my Did you ever talk
Speaker: 2
13:57
to Chuck? Did you ever, like, Chuck Gloria? I’m, like, sorry.
Speaker: 1
14:00
Yeah. No. Sai was Yeah. Yeah. No. That was I was really grateful we were able to do that.
Speaker: 2
14:04
Oh, that’s nice.
Speaker: 1
14:04
Yeah. I was carrying that around for too long. Yeah. He hired me for a show he had a few years ago called Bookie with Sebastian Maniscalco. Right?
Speaker: 2
14:12
Oh, yeah. That’s right. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
14:13
So I came in and did I played myself, did a few scenes, did a cameo, you know, did some fun stuff, and just back on a set with Chuck. And and it was like it was it just felt like it like it like it like it did in the in the early part.
Speaker: 2
14:26
Oh, that’s good on him for not holding a grudge too.
Speaker: 1
14:29
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
14:29
That’s that’s awesome.
Speaker: 1
14:30
Sorry. I lost that thought earlier. I was
Speaker: 2
14:32
like, where the
Speaker: 1
14:33
hell was Ai going?
Speaker: 2
14:33
Well, it’s a it’s a complicated thing to think about. Like, why did I go off the rails? You know, it’s ai and it’s very reasonable. Here’s the thing. I don’t think anybody but Charlie Sheen knows what it’s like to be Charlie Sheen. And in my estimation, there are a scant few people that have become massive superstars at a young age Right. And came through it sane. I don’t know anybody.
Speaker: 2
15:04
Everybody we meh, I know people that have have regained equilibrium and got their footing back, and now they’re on the right track and but no one gets through without a hiccup. It’s everyone kind of goes crazy because you’re living in this completely alien world that no one can help you navigate.
Speaker: 1
15:21
Even if you’ve watched the the people closest to you go Your dad. Go through it Yeah. Your most of your life and, like, just, like, right over there. Yes. Like, in the in the next room.
Speaker: 2
15:32
Right. Right.
Speaker: 1
15:32
You know? Or in the same room.
Speaker: 2
15:34
Right. And a bunch of your friends. Yes. It doesn’t matter. It
Speaker: 1
15:37
doesn’t matter.
Speaker: 2
15:37
It doesn’t matter. Bananas. It doesn’t matter. It’s still an alien world that you live in, that no one that you run into during the day except the people like that can understand.
Speaker: 1
15:46
Right.
Speaker: 0
15:46
Which is,
Speaker: 2
15:46
like, people always, like, why do celebrities just hang out with each other? Well, because to them, they’re the only people that are normal.
Speaker: 1
15:52
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
15:52
They’re the only people that, like, I get it. I can’t go to the supermarket either. I get it. I yeah. I get fucking TMZ’d at the airport as well.
Speaker: 1
15:59
Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
16:00
It’s like it’s normal for them. Because everybody else is ai, woah, it’s Charlie Sheen. And they’re just captivated. Like, you kind of need to be around people that understand what that life is like. But the problem is they’re all going crazy too.
Speaker: 1
16:14
Right. Yeah. Yeah. It’s not, I mean, it’s it’s a it’s a it’s a great support group, to a degree. You know what I’m saying? I think you can rely on them for the things that you have in common Right. But maybe take the more complicated shit just just right across the street, you know, to yeah. To the experts?
Speaker: 2
16:36
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can’t rely on them for everything. No. Because they’re going through it too.
Speaker: 1
16:41
Can I just get a tissue? Do you want Yeah.
Speaker: 2
16:43
Sure. Sure. Sure. Jimmy, you got a box?
Speaker: 1
16:48
Awesome. Thank you. Sorry. I’m just
Speaker: 2
16:51
No worries. Getting sweaty. Is it hot in here? We can turn the AC on.
Speaker: 1
16:56
No. I’ll tell you exactly what happened. I got I lost that thought, and then I tried to cover it. And I realized this is he’s not buying this, and then I started sweating. And I started fucking sweating. So I’m just gonna Losing
Speaker: 2
17:05
the it’s normal, man. Just say you lost your thought. It’s all good. Yeah. It happens all the time. It happens to me too.
Speaker: 1
17:12
Why is that, though? Is our brain already trying to figure out the next thing that’s gonna attach to it, and by doing so, it took that the main thing and just dismissed it? Perhaps. Okay.
Speaker: 2
17:22
It’s also brains are just not that good. You know? They’re they’re pretty good compared to chimpanzees and dogs and stuff like that. But, you know, they have a lot of issues.
Speaker: 1
17:31
Okay. Just
Speaker: 2
17:32
like what you’re talking about your memories. Like, my my memories of my whole life are like a series of blurry snapshots that I can go, oh, yeah. Then we went there. Oh, yeah. That happened. Right. Oh, yeah. Right. There’s very few memories that I have that are like rock solid memories.
Speaker: 1
17:47
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Ai totally get that. And there’s a little thing in the book where I talk about memories are tricky.
Speaker: 2
17:53
Mhmm. And
Speaker: 1
17:53
is it the is it a story someone told me? Is it is it me in that moment? Or is it a is it a, you know, a a creased photo I saw on an old album in the seventies or eighties?
Speaker: 2
18:06
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
18:06
Is it was the memory given to me, or or did I did I create it? Right.
Speaker: 2
18:12
Yeah. And there’s also the the real possibility that you have false memories, and people do that all the time. And they’ve they’ve even shown that they can introduce memories into people’s ai. And and then with enough sort of, encouragement Uh-huh. Or revisiting it, that person will accept it as a a pure memory.
Speaker: 1
18:31
Did it actually happen to them?
Speaker: 2
18:32
Yeah. And they’ll they’ll talk about it, like, outside of that, and they’ll have no knowledge that it was a false memory.
Speaker: 1
18:38
Wow.
Speaker: 2
18:39
Yeah. Because it’s just not a good system. It’s a system designed to keep you away from scary things. Like, there’s the wolf. Oh, get away from the wolf. You know, wolves are bad. I ai. I remember wolves are bad. That’s the spider that’s poison. Get away from that spider. That spider is poison.
Speaker: 2
18:53
But, like, day to day, everyday normal shit, it’s ai, how much of a memory does it really need to keep? It’s just your brain is just not that good.
Speaker: 1
19:02
And then and then even and and then sai do certain do, certain memories then get overlaid with, a a a newer version of that? Okay.
Speaker: 2
19:13
Yeah. They get narratives.
Speaker: 1
19:15
They get narratives.
Speaker: 2
19:15
Then you and you start repeating the meh, and your memory becomes of you repeating the memory. Wow. So it’s ai you don’t really have the memory anymore. You have you know how to say it.
Speaker: 1
19:25
Okay. Didn’t that happen with, with the that one Kosinski witness?
Speaker: 2
19:31
Did it? With the Unabomber witness? Yes. Interesting.
Speaker: 1
19:34
Yeah. Because that’s why the first, composite that was put out really, ultimately wound up looking nothing like the actual guy.
Speaker: 2
19:44
Oh, interesting.
Speaker: 1
19:45
Yeah. There was a thing that yeah. There was a thing where her memory was corrupted by a different description from somebody else.
Speaker: 2
19:55
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20:20
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Speaker: 2
21:05
Yeah. That’s why eyewitness accounts of, like, murders and chaos, they’re really bad.
Speaker: 1
21:10
Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
21:10
They’re really bad. Very unreliable.
Speaker: 1
21:12
There’s some really, really awful percentage about Mhmm. When even when they wind up in a in a courtroom.
Speaker: 2
21:19
Yeah. Ai, the
Speaker: 1
21:19
like, the determining, you you like, the final nail Mhmm. From the person, that ai, that it’s, like, sometimes it’s as high as, like, 60%
Speaker: 2
21:29
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
21:29
That they’re just wrong.
Speaker: 2
21:31
Yeah. And then they’ll convince themselves that they’re right because they’ve already said it. So then the ego gets involved. And then, you know, it’s just traumatic events leave you you’re in a high state of anxiety, and you’re not thinking clearly.
Speaker: 1
21:43
Right.
Speaker: 2
21:43
You’re freaked out. And, you you don’t like, when when they have events, like like, say, like, 09:11, if you were anywhere near that and you saw, like, people jump off the buildings and and fall to their deaths or like, your memories of that are probably really clear because it was fucking crazy.
Speaker: 1
22:04
Right. Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
22:05
But your memories of people that you might have saw that were running away ram maybe you saw a guy in a van and you looked fishy or maybe this or maybe that. It’s ai and then a few days go by and you’re you probably haven’t slept ai. You’re all freaked out.
Speaker: 1
22:19
Right.
Speaker: 2
22:19
That your memory is probably a mess. It’s probably filled with the news now and then there’s other people’s eyewitness accounts and and, you know, you don’t know what the fuck happened.
Speaker: 1
22:28
Right.
Speaker: 2
22:28
You you you know, you obviously sai someone ai, see someone jump off a building, you don’t remember that. But there’s some stuff that is just our you know, this is one of the scariest things about transhumanism is that it’s really appealing in the idea that it they give you a little hard drive in your brain.
Speaker: 2
22:44
And now ram now on, every time you want a memory, you can go just like, you know, you look on your phone, like ai iPhone on this day in 02/2017, you’re like, oh, look at us. Oh, that’s cool. You’re gonna be able to do that in your brain, you know. And the way that we’re gonna buy into it is because our memory sucks.
Speaker: 2
23:01
Because it’s
Speaker: 1
23:02
just That’s how they’re gonna sell it to us. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
23:05
Do you mean do you remember your phone number when you were a kid?
Speaker: 1
23:09
No. But I remember my address because it rhymed. That’s nice. Yeah. It was 7212 Birdview Avenue, Malibu.
Speaker: 2
23:15
Well, you used to remember your phone number. What happened? It goes away because your memory sucks.
Speaker: 1
23:19
Right. I I I I know my parents’ number because they still have a landline.
Speaker: 2
23:23
Oh, they’re still rocking the landline. Yeah. They are.
Speaker: 1
23:26
Yeah. And they have an answering machine. Woah. Yeah. But during dinner, they haven’t really turned it down. People start
Speaker: 2
23:33
talking in the background?
Speaker: 1
23:34
Yeah. Yeah. It’s just part of it. It’s part of it. It’s part
Speaker: 2
23:38
of it. Part of
Speaker: 1
23:38
the experience.
Speaker: 2
23:39
Yeah. They’re rocking a landline with an answering machine in 2025. That is Yeah. It’s probably the way to do it. I used to love the answering machine. When you come home, the light would be flashing. Like, someone likes me.
Speaker: 1
23:50
Right. Somebody called. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
23:52
It was cool. It was ai you had a dog coming home to wait, like, to to visit you when you came home. Like, oh, look.
Speaker: 1
23:58
It’s like in Deuce Bigelow when it’s ai he’s at his lowest point, and the thing in the light is just never blinking.
Speaker: 2
24:04
Right. I forgot
Speaker: 4
24:05
about that.
Speaker: 1
24:05
You have no no new messages.
Speaker: 2
24:07
Yeah. That was a wild time where you could get phone calls. There’s other thing is, like, you got famous before the Internet too, which is a different world. It’s a different world because there’s not that many of you. There’s way less famous people. There’s way more famous people now. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
24:23
You got famous, like, super duper famous at 21 years old with no Internet.
Speaker: 1
24:29
Trip out.
Speaker: 2
24:30
Yeah. I know. How does anybody expect you to come out normal? Jesus Christ.
Speaker: 1
24:36
And and it’s and you try you can’t really even explain to someone that that that shah wasn’t around during all that. You can’t really explain what it felt like because they they look at it as the things that were missing, and and there there wasn’t anything missing.
Speaker: 2
24:51
Right.
Speaker: 1
24:51
Right. It was about having to really be engaged in everything you were doing. You know, you had to show up to to to to, you know, to gain to to to get a ai, you had to enter the building.
Speaker: 2
25:05
Right. Right.
Speaker: 1
25:06
Right. You had to go to a on a talk show. You had to attend a junket. You you know what I’m saying? And you couldn’t and nobody knew nobody knew what the behind the scenes of your movie looked like until, you know, years later on the DVD feature or or the VHS feature
Speaker: 2
25:21
Right.
Speaker: 1
25:22
That they finally saw some of that stuff. Yeah. It wasn’t it wasn’t all all access twenty four seven, three sixty five. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
25:31
And for some people, they can’t leave it alone. They they have to live stream during the day. They’re live streaming from their trailer. They’re live streaming on in their car on the way home. They’re ai
Speaker: 1
25:40
Yeah. What is that about?
Speaker: 2
25:41
They’re nuts. They’re just locked into this weird new world that we’re living in.
Speaker: 1
25:46
But is it I mean, is it because there’s genuinely people that are tuning in with enthusiasm that are looking forward to that livestream in the car ride home or because the person or or is it a combination?
Speaker: 2
26:00
I think it’s those things, and it’s also that thing that you said that you did never get, they’re scared of. You didn’t ever get alone time. Just just time to decompress and think. Just be by yourself. No phone, no TV. Just fucking sit on the couch and just, like, catch catch your breath. Right.
Speaker: 2
26:17
And they don’t want that. That’s they’re scared of that. I like So they’re just constantly engaged with something.
Speaker: 1
26:22
I like entire days of that.
Speaker: 2
26:24
Oh, that’s nice.
Speaker: 1
26:24
Alone on the couch. Yeah. Watching TV. That’s nice.
Speaker: 2
26:28
It’s nice to just shut off. Right? It really is. It’s, all work, no play. Not good.
Speaker: 1
26:35
Not good at all. Not good.
Speaker: 2
26:36
Bad for you. And then bad for your work too, because it makes you just kind of it gets dreary. You don’t you don’t have the same enthusiasm for it anymore. You know? It’s ai you need discipline, but you also need enthusiasm.
Speaker: 1
26:50
You know what I was gonna say earlier? Thanks. Okay. Ai. The memory just, you know, dropped another, token in the in the in the slot, is that, now now it’s you know, it doesn’t even connect.
Speaker: 2
27:05
It doesn’t? Let’s find out.
Speaker: 1
27:08
Well, no. That that Ai I actually forgot it again. How about that? Is that fucking nuts?
Speaker: 2
27:14
It’s normal. It’s normal. When you, when you first got platoon, did you have any idea, like, what the fuck was gonna happen?
Speaker: 1
27:23
I didn’t. I didn’t.
Speaker: 2
27:25
Is that for for people today to to understand how big that movie was, because it was it was one of the very first realistic war movies. And Ai think very importantly, it was done by Oliver Stone, who was actually a veteran of the Vietnam War. You remember what you meh what you wrote down?
Speaker: 1
27:43
What you, just that that piece. Yeah. I’m not I’m not gonna I’m not gonna forget it again. Okay. Pardon. Sorry.
Speaker: 2
27:49
But that it was it was a different kind of war movie, you know.
Speaker: 1
27:53
Yeah. It,
Speaker: 2
27:54
Much in the lines of your
Speaker: 1
27:56
dad’s movie. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
27:57
You know? And that that was a very different kind of war movie as well.
Speaker: 1
28:00
Yeah. Apocalypse ram
Speaker: 2
28:02
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
28:02
Here, platoon, you know, boots on the ground. Mhmm. The script didn’t read like it was going to be a masterpiece. The the script read, like a like a kind of like a docudrama sort of movie of the week. It didn’t it didn’t read that script and say, oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. This is the one. People are gonna really wow. They’re gonna worship this thing.
Speaker: 1
28:32
It didn’t the dialogue was very clipped and very, very specific, it it you kinda never really knew where you were in the script, in the scene descriptions. You know? It it the script was so lean. I think it was, like, barely a 100 pages. Really? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
28:53
So but Ai I I didn’t realize sort of, what what we were doing until we were actually doing it. Usually, I can read a scene and get a sense of, you know, what my responsibilities are gonna be or how we’re gonna break it down or ram least, you know, how how I’m gonna see it on the screen.
Speaker: 1
29:15
And I couldn’t I couldn’t do that with Platoon because all the terrain, all the scenes, everything ai felt very similar. You know? Really? Yeah. And the original title was The Platoon. You think it’s as big a hit if he keeps the the?
Speaker: 2
29:32
Yeah. I don’t think it matters. It’s a great movie. Thank you.
Speaker: 1
29:36
Thank you.
Speaker: 2
29:36
Great movie. It doesn’t matter. Matter.
Speaker: 1
29:37
But we started to feel it as as we got deeper into it. And and and Oliver did something brilliant where he he decided to film it in continuity. Like, from page one, day one, all the way to the final day was the final page. And that and that gave us a chance to, like, when something was finished, you were done with it.
Speaker: 1
29:57
And and you didn’t have to know how you were gonna react or how you already reacted to something that hadn’t happened yet. Right. And when people died in the movie, they got sent home. They were just like, the next day, they were just gone. I guess he wanted us to feel that sense of just someone, yeah, gone, that loss, that that, you know, sadness.
Speaker: 2
30:18
You know?
Speaker: 1
30:19
Now I’m not saying that I I would know how that felt in the real thing, but we bonded really, you know, pretty pretty yeah. We were bonded in a way that, because we we were the only people that we had in the middle of that country, in the middle that jungle, in the middle of that movie.
Speaker: 1
30:36
So you really missed somebody when they were suddenly gone.
Speaker: 2
30:39
I would love to ask I mean, I’ve had Oliver on a couple times, but I would hope to ask him what it’s like to make a movie about a war that he was starring in and, like, what kind of bizarre mental conflicts.
Speaker: 1
30:51
Yeah. Did did he didn’t get into any of that stuff in The
Speaker: 2
30:53
United States? Really? I mean, he talked a little bit about his experience in Vietnam, but I don’t think we really talked about did we ever we talk about the making of Platoon? We got so heavy into the JFK assassination. We hardly covered anything else.
Speaker: 1
31:08
Oh, got it.
Speaker: 2
31:09
Especially the last time he was on. The last time he was on was when they were doing that Showtime JFK meh. It was a Showtime thing. Right? Wasn’t it?
Speaker: 1
31:18
I think it was. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
31:19
Where there was a multi part piece that he put together.
Speaker: 1
31:22
Ai saw it. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
31:23
His recall is insane. It’s insane. It is. You have a conversation with him. He’s pulling up dates. He’s got no I mean, how old is Oliver at this point in time?
Speaker: 1
31:34
Upper seventies? I just turned 60. So if he was
Speaker: 2
31:38
78.
Speaker: 1
31:39
He’s 78
Speaker: 2
31:40
years old. Okay. Rock solid memory. I mean, rock solid. Wow. The dude was just pulling up dates and names, and Saloni Dulles did this and Wow. Harry Ann. Well, it was just ai the the entire Warren Commission report. He’s ai sai different passages in it. It’s bananas.
Speaker: 1
31:57
That’s deep. Yeah. Wow. Has he landed on, like, what can he can he point to? Or or is it is it sana factors?
Speaker: 2
32:05
Can point to, but there’s a lot of people that wanted him dead. And for sure, there was a lot of fuckery going on with the Warren Commission. For sure. Right.
Speaker: 1
32:13
Right.
Speaker: 2
32:14
There’s a lot of nonsense with the autopsies. There’s a lot of nonsense with the single bullet going through both him and Connolly, and leaving more bullet fragments in Connolly’s wrist than that magic bullet was missing, the one they found. It’s like bullshit. Right. Right. The story’s filled with bullshit. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
32:30
And no one really knew how much bullshit it was until, they had that video that they played of the Zapruder film on the Geraldo Rivera shah. Yeah. When Dick Gregory came on and who was a comedian, which was pretty wild, came on and had the footage of the Kennedy assassination.
Speaker: 2
32:47
Everybody sees Kennedy’s head go back into the left and you
Speaker: 1
32:50
Right.
Speaker: 2
32:51
What what happened there?
Speaker: 1
32:53
And you immediately ai just simple common physics to it. Yeah. You know? Especially anybody who’s who’s ever fired a weapon.
Speaker: 2
33:01
Also, it clearly looks like he got shot in the chest too, like, when he grabs his neck. Right. Ai clearly looks like he got shot right there.
Speaker: 1
33:08
And there’s always that talk about doing a trach. You did a trach.
Speaker: 2
33:11
On But, you know, there’s two different autopsies. Right. Because the autopsy in Dallas, it says it’s an entry wound. And then there’s the autopsy in Bethesda, Maryland that says it’s a tracheotomy.
Speaker: 1
33:19
Interesting.
Speaker: 2
33:20
Yeah. Two different autopsies.
Speaker: 1
33:21
Make up your mind.
Speaker: 2
33:22
Yeah. And it also looks like by the time they got to Bethesda, they kinda glued his head back together again or at least put the pieces back to take a photo of it. It’s ai more was missing from what they were talking about in Dallas than the Bethesda.
Speaker: 1
33:36
That’s the shot where the gloved hand is like looks like it’s pointing. Yes.
Speaker: 2
33:39
Yeah. There’s a great book called Best Evidence by David Lifton, and he was an accountant. And they he had some sort of assignment involving the Warren Commission Report. And so he decided to do is read the entire thing. And so in the reading of the entire thing, he finds so many contradictions, so many things that don’t make any sense that he starts becoming obsessed.
Speaker: 2
34:00
And then he finds out how many people who are witnesses to the assassination wind up dying mysteriously.
Speaker: 1
34:05
Right. Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
34:06
Off the charts.
Speaker: 1
34:07
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
34:08
Off the charts.
Speaker: 1
34:08
Ai, ninety five percent of them.
Speaker: 2
34:10
All those people that were hanging around, like, a giant ton of them Right. Died in car accidents. Sure. It’s weird fucking Who
Speaker: 1
34:17
is the guy in the train tower? A guy named Bowers. Right?
Speaker: 2
34:21
Who is Bowers?
Speaker: 1
34:22
He was the guy that saw Badgeman. He saw people behind the knoll. He saw the exchange of the rifle. He saw all ai of shit. He died, I think he had a heart attack on a train track and then Of course. Also got hit by the train. I could be wrong, but it was one of those type of things.
Speaker: 2
34:40
But, of course. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
34:41
And then but, wasn’t it what was the who who’s the guy, who’s standing at the when the curb explodes, like, near the underpass?
Speaker: 2
34:48
Oh, yeah. That’s the guy that’s the reason why they had had to come up with the magic bullet theory.
Speaker: 1
34:51
Is that Teague? No. What’s his name? Ai don’t remember.
Speaker: 2
34:54
Did he die weird? Probably. I don’t know if he
Speaker: 1
34:56
died weird,
Speaker: 2
34:57
but he was hit with a ricochet.
Speaker: 1
34:58
Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
34:59
Right. They knew that the overpass that’s why they had That adds a bullet. Yes. They had to add that. And then, okay, how do we fix this?
Speaker: 1
35:05
Right.
Speaker: 2
35:06
What about We said only one guy did it. It’s only three shots. So how do we come up with a a reasonable excuse, and they came up with a magic bullet?
Speaker: 1
35:13
Yeah. Yeah. I I I and I think the, the the architect of that was was Speak.
Speaker: 2
35:20
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Speaker: 2
36:54
They just bullshitted people. But back then, you can get away with that.
Speaker: 1
36:57
Right.
Speaker: 2
36:58
You know? It was pretty easy to just bullshit people.
Speaker: 1
37:00
And you see all the additional cameras, like Babushka lady, for instance. Right? And and all that stuff just confiscated and never yeah.
Speaker: 2
37:10
Well, they had this Zapruder film for a long time. I think Time Life had it, and then somehow or another Dick Gregory got it.
Speaker: 1
37:17
Was it ever released with missing frames? Wasn’t there the jump cut when he goes behind the sign and then it jumps? Because they didn’t they take out the the fatal head hit at some point and then tried to sell that?
Speaker: 2
37:33
Perhaps. They probably did at one point in time. But now, obviously, you could see the whole thing. And then there’s also been AI enhanced. I don’t know if you’ve seen the AI enhanced one.
Speaker: 1
37:44
I haven’t. No. It’s grizzly. It’s even more gruesome.
Speaker: 2
37:47
It’s gruesome. Yeah. I mean, I Sai think he was shot from multiple angles simultaneously. That’s what I think. I think he was shot both from the back and from the front. And I think Lee Harvey Oswald, if he wasn’t involved, he certainly wasn’t innocent. He he was probably the guy that they were gonna frame it on.
Speaker: 1
38:03
Right.
Speaker: 2
38:04
But I think he was in on the whole thing. Anyway, I think he killed a cop afterwards as well. Tippett? No. Yeah. Tippett.
Speaker: 1
38:10
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever read that thing about, because, Tippett’s nickname back at the precinct was JFK. Don’t ever read this thing? Then they show the side by side of how much they really look like each other. Oh, really? So they’re saying he was the body they used for the transfer when they flew with the empty coffin, you know, all that stuff about yeah.
Speaker: 1
38:29
It’s I mean, it is so sai many just, you know, warrants to travel down Yeah. And there’s so many angles to explore.
Speaker: 2
38:39
There’s too many. There’s so many rabbit holes to go down.
Speaker: 1
38:42
We were introduced to it as kids because dad played both Kennedys. So we were seeing documentaries at, like you know, I would have been 10 or 11. Amelia was 13 or 14. And so we’ve been involved in this thing for a lot longer than we should have been. Wow. Yeah. We had access to this stuff.
Speaker: 1
39:01
And so,
Speaker: 2
39:02
It was just nuts that no one was brought to justice, and we’d know for sure more people were involved than Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald. There was more people involved, and no one was brought to justice, and they got away with it. We don’t wanna think that they meh away with things like killing the president, but they did.
Speaker: 1
39:19
In broad daylight.
Speaker: 2
39:19
Yeah. Yeah. And blaming it on a lone gunman, a lone nut.
Speaker: 1
39:23
Yeah. Yeah. Who who they already had a full description and and and rapture and rundown and everything about. Everything about
Speaker: 2
39:30
they printed articles about them before it was even over. Yeah. And then the Jack Ruby thing or And then the Jack Ruby thing, or Jack Ruby goes completely insane in jail after he’s visited by Jollie West, who is the head of MK Ultra Yeah. Who is, like, routinely dosing people with acid. Yeah. He cooked jolly he got it. Jolli West cooked Jack Ruby’s brain in jail and just left him insane.
Speaker: 1
39:53
He’s the guy from, what’s the book that it’s Chaos. From Chaos. Yeah. I actually read Chaos before it got all the attention. Really? Yeah. A friend of mine gave it to meh, and I was and I alright. I’ll I’ll I’ll read a couple pages, and I was like, oh. Yeah. Oh, okay.
Speaker: 2
40:09
This is good. This is yeah. This is one of the best books.
Speaker: 1
40:11
Different take.
Speaker: 2
40:12
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
40:13
But I’m curious how you felt about the documentary they did about it.
Speaker: 2
40:18
I didn’t watch it. Okay. I I thought it was gonna be too quick. Ninety minutes, I didn’t think was, like, enough time. It’s only ninety minutes. Right?
Speaker: 1
40:25
I thought it was the first episode. Oh, you just didn’t get a lot. Sort of like a data gathering thing that you usually do with the first episode and kinda just seeing where the what the director’s doing and what ai of stuff they’re laying out early.
Speaker: 2
40:37
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
40:38
So and then when it ended and I didn’t see that second episode with the timer. Right?
Speaker: 2
40:43
Uh-huh.
Speaker: 1
40:44
And I was oh, that’s and I thought it was a complete, I thought it radically underserved the book.
Speaker: 2
40:51
Yeah. Maybe they could try again. They need to that needs to be, like, an eight part two hour a piece series.
Speaker: 1
40:59
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker: 2
41:00
Yeah. Because it’s so nuts. The story is so nuts. Yeah. Just the provable vatsal facts are so nuts Yeah. That very likely Charles Manson was a CIA asset. Very ai, they had groomed him when he was in prison and taught him mind control techniques when people were high on acid, taught him how to be sober but pretend he’s on acid, and how to interact with these people that are on acid and shape their mind and even get them to commit murder.
Speaker: 2
41:27
All of which is fact.
Speaker: 1
41:30
Yeah. No. It’s it’s it’s it’s it’s I would say it’s insane, but so much of it is I don’t wanna say provable, but but but has enough supporting evidence to make a compelling case. And I love that the guy starts out just like a, you you you know, just a ai of a normal celebrity assignment for Premier Magazine. Right? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
41:54
I’ve been on that magazine. I had that cover twice. My story didn’t wind up like that.
Speaker: 2
42:00
I think that it was a story for a magazine, and it was just about the anniversary of the murders.
Speaker: 1
42:04
Exactly. That’s it. That’s what it was. Yeah. You know, just give us
Speaker: 2
42:07
peace, you know, so people go, wow. Crazy. Twenty five years later. Wow.
Speaker: 1
42:11
Right. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
42:12
And then he gets obsessed, and he starts realizing, well, this guy was full of shit, and that guy was corrupted. Oh my god. Look at this. And hold on. Who’s Jolly West? You know? Like, what’s MK Ultra? This is real. Freedom of Information Act. Meh the documents. Oh ai god. Operation Midnight Climax.
Speaker: 2
42:28
The the government was running whore houses. They were running whore houses and using two way mirrors and dosing johns and filming them. And this has to do with Manson? Like, what what the fuck was going on? Yeah.
Speaker: 2
42:40
And then you realize that it was all a a a psyop to try to demonize the speak, love, and stop war movement. And that what they really sana to do is stop the anti war movement and do something to curb the cultural change that was happening. And so their strategy was to turn hippies into murderers.
Speaker: 1
43:03
It it it it ai works.
Speaker: 2
43:06
It kinda works.
Speaker: 1
43:06
Yeah. It kinda works. Yeah. I mean, it’s a long way to go, but it, I think it had the effect they were looking for.
Speaker: 2
43:13
Imagine if they didn’t do that. Like, what kind of cultural change would have taken place? Because if you think about what what happened between 1950 and 1960, it’s like the world becomes a different place in ten years. Between 1960 and 1970, he’s like, what? This world is crazy. The music is crazy. The culture is crazy. The movies are nuts. Everything is wild. It’s very psychedelic.
Speaker: 2
43:36
And then Nixon comes along in 1970, passes this sweeping Schedule one Act, makes all mushrooms and LSD, makes everything illegal, all to stop the civil wars the civil civil rights movement and the anti ram movement at the same time when they’re doing this Vatsal stuff. So it was a concerted effort across the board to stop the anti war movement and to stop the civil rights movement. They were ai, we’re losing control and power.
Speaker: 2
44:04
And so, I mean, it was an evil thing to do, but you kinda gotta give them credit because it’s pretty brilliant. Like, they they actually pulled it off. You think of serial killer, you think of Bryden. You think of the family. Oh ai god. These hippies are murderous. Right.
Speaker: 2
44:18
Ai bunch of murderous freaks on drugs, cutting women’s babies out of their stomachs and writing pig on the wall. Like, this is nuts.
Speaker: 1
44:27
Yeah. And they and they and they brought the Beatles into it.
Speaker: 2
44:29
And our own goddamn government engineered it. They engineered they stopped what was probably one of the most beautiful cultural shifts in this country’s history.
Speaker: 1
44:42
That would have organically still kept evolving into the things that would have would have blossomed out of it and Yes.
Speaker: 2
44:48
Yeah. Yeah. We probably would have rethought government. We probably would have, like, rethought the type of people that we want as leaders. We’d have rethought our involvement in foreign wars. There’d been no support for it. We would have rethought what psychedelic drugs can do for you versus, the bad aspects of them. We would have rethought everything.
Speaker: 2
45:08
We would re re we would the music would have been a lot better. Music took a big dip.
Speaker: 1
45:14
Yeah. It did.
Speaker: 2
45:15
Music took a big dip after they got rid of the drugs that were good and brought in the coke.
Speaker: 1
45:19
But people do point to the death of the sixties, occurred up at Cielo Drive.
Speaker: 2
45:25
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. It was effective. Yeah. I mean, that that completely demonized any peace, love, and, you know, any of that kind of movement. Those people became a real problem now because you’re now connected to Mansa. It
Speaker: 1
45:39
was instantly zero tolerance. Mhmm. Ai, overnight.
Speaker: 2
45:41
Kind of nuts. Yeah. Kind of nuts that it it was really all engineered by the government. You know, it’s really that in vatsal, in and of itself is a a terrible crime that they they sort of engineered society to their benefit so that they could maintain control. And the way they did it is by getting a a horrible con who had been in and out of jail his whole life and teaching him how to run a cult.
Speaker: 2
46:09
Right.
Speaker: 1
46:10
Right. A murderous cult. And setting up at a free clinic
Speaker: 2
46:14
Yeah. In the Haight, where my wife’s mom went. Oh. Yes.
Speaker: 1
46:18
Oh, ai.
Speaker: 2
46:19
Wife’s mom was a hippie.
Speaker: 1
46:20
You have a connection to this.
Speaker: 2
46:21
Yes. That’s amazing. My wife’s mom went she she was a hippie in Haight Ashbury, and she went to the Haight Ashbury free clinic.
Speaker: 1
46:27
Treated at that clinic?
Speaker: 2
46:28
Yes. Wow. You know, that clinic didn’t shut down until after Tom O’Neil’s book came out. That clinic would have been running for over fifty years.
Speaker: 1
46:36
So it ran tyler, like, 2022? Yeah. Wow.
Speaker: 2
46:39
When did it close? It closed shortly after that book came out.
Speaker: 1
46:42
Ai I
Speaker: 2
46:43
was like,
Speaker: 0
46:43
hey, we’re good.
Speaker: 1
46:44
Let’s get
Speaker: 2
46:44
out of here.
Speaker: 1
46:46
I could’ve gone there while I was reading the book? Yes. The CIA was running Not for any treatment. Yeah. Clinic. What a trip.
Speaker: 2
46:52
That is so nuts. And that clinic also connected to Jolly West. That clinic also connected to all sorts of other marijuana experience. San Francisco is where they were doing Operation Midnight Climax. That’s where they had a brothel. These are the people that are supposed to be, like, protect and serve.
Speaker: 2
47:13
Look out for your best interests. Right. Right. Yeah. These motherfuckers are creating Manson and, completely shifting society and turning people into whatever the fuck we became in the seventies and the eighties. Yeah.
Speaker: 4
47:26
The book came out 06/25/2019. Yeah. And the clinic closed July 2019.
Speaker: 2
47:35
Seriously? Yeah. Twenty months later. Like, fuck. We’re we got busted.
Speaker: 1
47:40
That dude read the foreword and was like, guys, we got a problem.
Speaker: 2
47:43
Yeah. They that’s probably how long it took them just to clear the building out Yeah. Exactly. And try to figure out whether they’re gonna kill Tom O’Neil. Right. Right. Sai he been
Speaker: 1
47:50
on the show? Yes.
Speaker: 2
47:51
Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
47:52
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
47:53
He’s What’s he like? Is he He’s great. He’s great. He’s ai my good friend, Greg Fitzsimmons. He was his neighbor in New York Okay.
Speaker: 1
48:00
When
Speaker: 2
48:01
he first started working on this. And then he became his neighbor also in Venice. Like, he’s been his neighbor for, like, twenty years. So Greg’s followed him from this entire journey. And Greg had been telling me about it for years. I’m like, when is your friend gonna get that fucking book done?
Speaker: 2
48:15
And then finally, he says tells me the whole story, how it took so long, why he’s like, you gotta have him on. The book is insane. I’m like, let’s go.
Speaker: 1
48:23
Wow.
Speaker: 2
48:24
So we had him on, and it was first of all, I listened to the book first before I had him on. I listened to the audio version. I was like, this is
Speaker: 1
48:31
nuts. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
48:32
This is nuts. Yeah. If this is all true, this is fucking insane. And it’s all true. So they really did engineer a a murderous cult of of hippies.
Speaker: 1
48:46
And and almost used, the clinic, as a as a casting couch, as as an audition process for which girls they thought would be the the most,
Speaker: 2
48:55
moldable Yep.
Speaker: 1
48:56
Vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
49:00
Crazy. The CIA was doing that.
Speaker: 1
49:05
It’s just I thought they were supposed to just operate on foreign soil.
Speaker: 2
49:08
I know they were. But, you know, sometimes things get messy. But it’s ai they you you talk to, like, your average boomer who just watches, cable news and reads the newspaper. They’re they never believed us in a million years.
Speaker: 1
49:20
And they’ll hear us talking about it thinking, come on, guys.
Speaker: 2
49:23
Oh, you’re out of your mind.
Speaker: 1
49:24
And but they but they but they also will never read the book.
Speaker: 2
49:27
No. Never read the book. And then when things get proven, they never apologize.
Speaker: 1
49:32
Imagine that.
Speaker: 2
49:33
Never apologize for your baseless conspiracy theories that all turned out to be true. Yeah. Because, you know, conspiracies are fucking real. Okay? This this conspiracy theory pejorative that they really started foisting on the American public during the Kennedy assassination was for that very reason. They wanted to make it ridiculous.
Speaker: 1
49:51
Is that shah sana that’s where the term was coined.
Speaker: 2
49:53
That’s where the term became popularized. Apparently, the term existed before that. We we we researched this. Right? Didn’t we, Google the original term of conspiracy theorist? It’s quite a bit earlier, but it was never ai a thing in the public zeitgeist.
Speaker: 1
50:07
Right.
Speaker: 2
50:07
It became a thing during the Kennedy assassination because a lot of people were questioning it because it looked weird. You know, everything even the people that hadn’t seen the Zapruder film, everything just seemed off. It seemed off. And there was rumblings amongst people that were there that there the big one was the shots from the grassy knoll. Many people talked about gunshots.
Speaker: 1
50:26
And that one photo where there’s, like Mhmm. 15 people pointing to the same spot.
Speaker: 2
50:30
You see smoke
Speaker: 1
50:31
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
50:32
Here where the the bushes arya, and it’s not a good photo, but it’s good enough. Right. Then you go, it’s just too it was too uniform. You know, people were they all were pointing. We heard shots from back there. There is a thing that does happen, especially if you look at Dealey Plaza.
Speaker: 2
50:49
Have you ever driven through?
Speaker: 1
50:50
I have. Yeah. I’ve I’ve I’ve I’ve walked the whole It’s weird. Crime scene. Yeah. It’s weird to be there.
Speaker: 2
50:55
First of
Speaker: 1
50:56
all, it’s so little. It’s you can’t believe how close everything is.
Speaker: 2
50:59
It’s real little.
Speaker: 1
51:00
And that they but that they sent him into that tight turn and put him into that In a convertible. Pickle jar.
Speaker: 2
51:06
I mean Yeah. Completely planned.
Speaker: 1
51:08
And you watch the motorcycle cubs drop back.
Speaker: 2
51:11
Uh-huh. Just
Speaker: 1
51:11
drop back. Which is not? There’s something I read. Did you ever read, the man who killed Kennedy? Mm-mm. I think it’s, Jim Mars. Do you remember Jim Mars?
Speaker: 2
51:20
Yes. I did not.
Speaker: 1
51:20
Did you ever have him on?
Speaker: 2
51:21
No. I didn’t.
Speaker: 1
51:22
Okay. He’s he’s
Speaker: 2
51:23
Did he pass?
Speaker: 1
51:24
I think so.
Speaker: 2
51:24
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
51:25
Yeah. He wrote Ai, which, was in it all about remote viewing. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. He’s a trip. He was deep into everything.
Speaker: 2
51:33
I go back and forth on that remote viewing side.
Speaker: 1
51:35
Ai do too. Sai do too. But, there’s something in one of his books, and I’ve never been able to find it anywhere else. It’s almost like this little detail was scrubbed from the Internet that the the Morse code signal for victory, right after the failed headshot went out over every Dallas police radio.
Speaker: 2
51:58
Woah.
Speaker: 1
51:58
Have you ever heard that? No. Okay. I read that. This is Oh my god. Disclaimer. I’m not coming up with this. This is not my original data. But, yeah, when I read that, that was that was just that was creepy.
Speaker: 2
52:13
That’s crazy.
Speaker: 1
52:13
And I don’t know that he would have just added that for color. That’s not something you just throw out there.
Speaker: 2
52:21
Yeah. That’s that’s a weird thing to add. Victory. Well, a lot of people hated Kennedy back then. It’s hard for us to reconcile now, today, because we think of him as, like, one of our greatest presidents. Of course, because he got murdered. We always love him after they get shot. Sure. But when he was alive, this this was, like, half the country fucking hated him.
Speaker: 2
52:43
And then there was the Bay of Pigs disaster where we lost a lot of people because Kennedy didn’t give him air support. Right. He wasn’t told about the invasion until, like, like, last moment, and ai air support was crucial Sure. To its success. He denied air support.
Speaker: 2
52:56
A bunch of people died that weren’t going to die.
Speaker: 1
52:58
Right.
Speaker: 2
52:58
And so those guys on the ground ai friend Evan has a theory. My friend Evan who owns Black Rifle Coffee, who was a ranger himself.
Speaker: 1
53:06
I’ve met him.
Speaker: 2
53:07
He’s the best. I love him.
Speaker: 1
53:08
Good dude.
Speaker: 2
53:09
I love him to death. But he said, like, those guys, those are hard nosed killers. And if they think that they lost their brothers because this fucking piece of shit didn’t give them the air support that they deserve, it was Kennedy’s ai, and you tell tyler that you want to get that guy killed, like, oh, fucking sign me up.
Speaker: 2
53:28
Those guys would do it.
Speaker: 1
53:29
Interesting. He’s ai,
Speaker: 2
53:30
those would be the type of guys you would have do something like that, and they would probably tell you this would be a perfect place to do it.
Speaker: 1
53:36
Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
53:36
Tight little turn. Yeah. Anybody who says, by the way because conspiracies get everybody gets binary on this one way or another. I believe this or I believe that. Anybody sai that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn’t make that shot has never shot a rifle. You’re full of shit. If it the rifle’s on, it was not that far.
Speaker: 2
53:53
I’m not saying he could do it a 100 times out of a 100.
Speaker: 1
53:56
Right.
Speaker: 2
53:56
But the possibility of him having that rifle ready, he’s got a scope, he’s got a rest. The the the car comes into view, you roll the ai onto his back, you squeeze off around, squeeze off around, and you get a headshot in there. That’s a 100% possible.
Speaker: 1
54:13
Sure.
Speaker: 2
54:13
I just don’t buy it.
Speaker: 1
54:14
Right.
Speaker: 2
54:15
I don’t buy I don’t I don’t think he acted alone. If he did do it, he might have done it. He might have shot at him. He might have even hit him once. There was other people. There was he was the patsy, and I think when he said, I’m just a patsy.
Speaker: 1
54:27
Right. Right. The
Speaker: 2
54:27
way he said it was not like a guy who murdered somebody. The way he said it was like, I can’t believe they set me up.
Speaker: 1
54:33
Exactly. Like Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
54:35
I think he was in on a bunch of it.
Speaker: 1
54:37
Sure.
Speaker: 2
54:37
I just don’t think he pulled the trigger. Right. Or if he did pull the trigger, he was one of many people that pulled the trigger. That’s what I think.
Speaker: 1
54:44
Yeah. But there was a
Speaker: 2
54:45
lot of other people saying, oh, he couldn’t have made those shots because the rifle scope was off. That’s you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about because I could get your rifle scope to be off in five seconds. Okay? If your rifle scope’s perfect because it zeroed in, bang. I drop it on the ground. Try it again. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
55:00
It’ll be off by sai inches at
Speaker: 1
55:02
200 yards. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
55:03
You’re gonna lose that thing. It’s Yeah. They’re fragile. They’re they require micro adjustments with little Saloni wrenches and hex keys and shah.
Speaker: 1
55:10
Right. Right. Right. People, they
Speaker: 2
55:12
don’t torque them too much. You get it dialed in perfect.
Speaker: 1
55:15
37 rifle.
Speaker: 2
55:17
On a rifle from 1963.
Speaker: 1
55:19
From the back of a magazine.
Speaker: 2
55:20
Yeah. Of course, that thing can get knocked off easy. Right. Like, almost instantly, you can knock that thing off.
Speaker: 1
55:26
There is a thing about the tree, though.
Speaker: 2
55:28
What about the tree?
Speaker: 1
55:29
That he had to shoot through a tree because what they’ve done and a lot of the reenactments, yeah, you know, supporting that he was the lone gunman. Uh-huh. They they did, cut out part of the tree that Kennedy’s behind.
Speaker: 2
55:42
They cut it out for the reenactment?
Speaker: 1
55:44
Yeah. Sai yeah. So he would have a clear field of view.
Speaker: 2
55:47
But he had a clear view field of view for at least a brief amount of time.
Speaker: 1
55:51
Sure.
Speaker: 2
55:51
And that’s all you need. That’s all you need if you were good and if you practice. And I’m assuming that if you’re gonna go shoot the president, you’ll probably get used to firing off a few rounds. You’ll probably set up a arya. So you’re not gonna just hope that your accuracy is still there from
Speaker: 1
56:04
On three years ago. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
56:05
Yeah. You’re gonna practice. Yeah. So if you’re gonna practice, you’re gonna be even quicker at racking a new round. Sure. He could have done it. I just don’t buy it. It just none of the evidence seems to point in that direction, including all the evidence that they try to fabricate.
Speaker: 2
56:20
Like, the magic bullet one is nuts. Anybody who’s ever shot anything with a bullet who looks at that and believes that went through two people and broke bones. Yeah. That looks like it shot got shot into a swimming pool. Yeah. It doesn’t look like it ever hit anything.
Speaker: 1
56:34
No. And and Ai had people, like, you you know, debate me and taking the side of the magic bullet.
Speaker: 2
56:40
They’re not they’re And they’re,
Speaker: 1
56:41
like, look me right in the eyes and do and believe it. And I’m just like, okay. Well, cool. This is where we have to just
Speaker: 2
56:50
They’re out of their mind.
Speaker: 1
56:51
Yeah. We have to walk away.
Speaker: 2
56:52
They’re out of their mind. It did they don’t know. I could show them, like, let’s go let’s go take a bone from a cow. Let’s set up a bone from a cow, and I’ll shoot it at a 100 yards.
Speaker: 1
57:03
One bone?
Speaker: 2
57:03
Yeah. Just one. Just one bone. And let’s take a look at that bullet.
Speaker: 1
57:06
Right. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
57:07
It’s not gonna look anything like that.
Speaker: 1
57:09
No. It’s
Speaker: 2
57:09
gonna be all fucked up. And there’s the fragments. There’s missing fragments from the bullet that are in Connolly’s wrist that are more fragments that are missing from the actual bullet. They’re attributing to the wound.
Speaker: 1
57:22
You can’t. It’s just yeah.
Speaker: 2
57:25
But they did it. That’s what’s nuts. Meh should see here and talk about it till the cows come home. Do you
Speaker: 1
57:29
know about the palm print, though? No. Oh, that, that they linked the rifle to Oswald because of a palm print on
Speaker: 2
57:36
on the stock. When it they went visit him in the morgue.
Speaker: 1
57:39
Yeah. They didn’t get it till after the autopsy. Yeah. It wasn’t there, and then, surprise.
Speaker: 2
57:46
How convenient. Yeah. Yeah. And also, like, says who? Says who? His fingerprint was on it. You could just say that back then. 1963.
Speaker: 1
57:56
Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
57:56
We found a fingerprint. Oswald doesn’t have a lawyer. No one’s representing him. He’s dead. Yeah. You know, no one’s gonna sai, my client is innocent. He’s fucking dead. Yeah. Okay? Pin it on him. Nobody gives a shah. And everybody just mourned the fact that the president was dead.
Speaker: 2
58:11
And then, you know, all of a bryden, you got Lyndon Johnson full steam ahead with Vietnam War.
Speaker: 1
58:20
Yeah. It’s nuts. Yeah. If you usually look what look at what happens after
Speaker: 2
58:24
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
58:24
The major event, it, like, it’s
Speaker: 2
58:26
Things got very different. Yeah. They got very different.
Speaker: 1
58:29
That’s when you really start to see, ai, okay.
Speaker: 2
58:32
Yeah. Kennedy was trying to be a real president, and they were, ai, none of that.
Speaker: 1
58:37
Yeah. It was the Federal Reserve. It was Vietnam. It was, like, all these big, like, really important things.
Speaker: 2
58:41
Big things
Speaker: 1
58:42
that he wanted to get us out.
Speaker: 2
58:43
He wanted to kill the CIA. He wanted to do a lot of things.
Speaker: 1
58:46
Yeah. And
Speaker: 2
58:47
they were ai, not today, sir. Then that’s the the real argument is ai we haven’t really had a president since Kennedy. Everything after that has been the the presidents are more of a a speaker.
Speaker: 1
58:59
Interesting.
Speaker: 2
59:00
And the the ai machine behind it continues to run exactly as it always has.
Speaker: 1
59:06
Yeah. I mean, and and, just from where I sit, there’s there’s not a lot you can do about it.
Speaker: 2
59:12
There’s nothing you can do about it. You can talk. But look, if they haven’t done anything about the Kennedy assassination, you can’t do shit. No. You you you could put pressure on people and you, you definitely can hurt their chances of getting reelected if people find out that that they’re very disappointed in you for Sure.
Speaker: 2
59:29
Not supporting this or not telling us about that or lying about this or you were involved in that. Yeah. But other than that, like, there’s not much not much you can do.
Speaker: 1
59:39
Yeah. And that’s why I don’t really weigh in anymore.
Speaker: 2
59:41
Good. It’s probably smart. So, you know, I’m just it’s it feels like
Speaker: 1
59:46
I Ai don’t know. It’s wasted energy.
Speaker: 2
59:48
It definitely is a lot of that. But it’s also like a show. You know. You could watch the show. Hey. Have you heard the watched the latest episode of the Epstein Ai? Like, what’s going on? Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
59:58
It turns into a It’s a
Speaker: 2
59:58
ai like a show.
Speaker: 1
59:59
Turns into a parlor game also, you know. Right? That’s that’s how my dad described the OJKs. And so this is ai the greatest parlor game ever. Right. You know?
Speaker: 2
01:00:09
Boy, I remember watching that verdict on TV live in my apartment with this girl I was dating. She was a really sweet girl, and she couldn’t believe that he was innocent. Yeah. And she didn’t understand it. She was so confused.
Speaker: 1
01:00:23
Yeah. I didn’t lie. I didn’t lie. She was ai,
Speaker: 2
01:00:25
no. Yeah. No. How? She skips she kept, like, putting her hands on her face. No. No.
Speaker: 1
01:00:32
It it it completely torqued her her whole reality. Yeah. Yeah. I was on a on a mountaintop in Mexico doing a a kind ai a, you know, low rent sci fi film called The Arrival.
Speaker: 2
01:00:48
I love that movie.
Speaker: 1
01:00:49
Oh, okay.
Speaker: 2
01:00:49
Don’t say that was a low rent rev movie. I love that movie. Thank you. You know who turned me on to that movie? Dave Foley. Dave Foley is a good friend of mine from, news radio.
Speaker: 1
01:00:57
Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:00:57
When we were on news radio together, he fucking loved that movie. He goes, this is a so underrated sci fi movie. I’m like, okay. Cool. Wow. And I checked it out. It was great.
Speaker: 1
01:01:06
I love it. Thank you. It was it was the first, film that actually incorporated a mashup of puppets and CGI at the same time. Yeah. Because it at that point, it was either one or the other, and and the other hadn’t fully really arrived yet.
Speaker: 2
01:01:23
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:01:23
You know? Yeah. So that was kinda cool. But, no, we were, I was so hoping for the day off to be back at the hotel because everybody knew the night before that the that the verdict was coming. Ai? So we had to shoot this scene, and and there was a there was a prop meh. And he had the only this is 95. Right?
Speaker: 1
01:01:43
He had the only, cell phone, and it had, like, half a bar. And it’s and then it’s starting to rain, and he’s got his ear, and his his buddies got his phone in LA up to the TV when they’re about to read the verdict. Wow. So we all gather around the prop man, and we’re watching him. And he’s kinda leaning to keep the signal, to keep it to kinda keep, you know, connected.
Speaker: 1
01:02:05
And then we can see when he hears it. He he slumps a little bit. Right? Takes the phone from his ear and slams it into the mud and screams, that motherfucker got away with murder. Wow. Voice, like, echoed through the mist. It was gnarly.
Speaker: 1
01:02:26
That’s a wild scene. That’s how I learned about the OJ verdict. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Dave Anderson was there with me. He’s a buddy I grew up with.
Speaker: 1
01:02:36
He’s in the book. He’s a he’s a he’s a two time Oscar winning, FX makeup arya, you know. And sai, yeah, if you ever run across Dave the Rave, Anderson, ask him about the OJ verdict.
Speaker: 2
01:02:47
That’s a crate just a crazy scene. Imagine a guy reacting like that.
Speaker: 1
01:02:52
He was our only connection to it. Yeah. You know, and everybody was so invested in this thing. And and it was really hard to go. And that was, ai, do you remember ai of day that might have happened? Kinda late morning sort of, or was it in the afternoon? Remember.
Speaker: 2
01:03:06
I don’t remember at all.
Speaker: 1
01:03:08
We still had a a pretty sizable day to shoot.
Speaker: 2
01:03:11
Oh. And
Speaker: 1
01:03:11
it was really hard to regain focus. Yeah. Because there there there was a, there there was a giant just there was, like, a murmur in the universe at that point. You know? Yeah. Like, something it felt like something had been taken from us.
Speaker: 2
01:03:29
You know? Yeah. Yeah. Meh. Civility. Did you
Speaker: 1
01:03:32
see the last, or the most recent, OJ documentary? No. It’s it’s Murder, Mayhem, and Blood. I think it’s got three
Speaker: 2
01:03:47
Murder, Mayhem, and Blood?
Speaker: 1
01:03:49
The Sunshine. Murder, Mayhem, and Lies. Something I’m probably way off with that title.
Speaker: 4
01:03:58
American Manhunt?
Speaker: 1
01:04:00
No. No. It’s actually it’s
Speaker: 2
01:04:02
it’s actually the latest OJ documentary? Well, I
Speaker: 1
01:04:05
guess Manhunt will be the latest. Yeah.
Speaker: 4
01:04:06
I can
Speaker: 1
01:04:07
This yeah. This is the one that that was before vatsal, and and it’s it’s broken down at the crime scene by, two, like, expert veteran, recreationists. Yeah. It’s it’s it’s a trip. Do you do you do you watch any OJ stuff that that comes out? No?
Speaker: 2
01:04:25
No. I try not to.
Speaker: 1
01:04:27
Yeah. Because
Speaker: 2
01:04:28
It’s just too weird.
Speaker: 1
01:04:29
I okay. It’s Do you think there was something else there?
Speaker: 2
01:04:32
Or No. Ai think he killed his wife. Yeah. And he killed Ron Goldman, and he got away with it. Yeah. And it’s just nuts. It’s just, you know, it’s weird. You watch him on, like, Naked Gun, and you’re ai, that guy? Yeah. That guy murdered his wife with a ai? Like, what? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:04:47
And then
Speaker: 2
01:04:47
he got away with it, and he was just golfing. Yeah. It was
Speaker: 1
01:04:51
a follow-up part that didn’t really support anything about what he had claimed.
Speaker: 2
01:04:56
Ram remember when he was a rapper? Do you remember the Juice is Loose? You remember that?
Speaker: 1
01:05:01
Oh, gosh. I think I think I just will I willed that one out of my He
Speaker: 2
01:05:05
had like a like a like a king’s robe on and, like, there’s a bunch of hot ladies around them.
Speaker: 1
01:05:11
Okay. It’s coming back to me.
Speaker: 2
01:05:12
Yeah. He made a rap song. Wow. Wow. Yeah. He was, like, embracing the heel role at one point in time after the the guilty verdict or the not guilty verdict.
Speaker: 1
01:05:22
Right. Right. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:05:23
And so he he got into, like, rap.
Speaker: 1
01:05:29
But, I mean, probably just just for just just for monetary ram.
Speaker: 2
01:05:32
I would imagine. Let me let’s play it. Play the juices loose. It’s so bad. Oh
Speaker: 1
01:05:37
my god.
Speaker: 2
01:05:38
It’s it’s is it off of YouTube? That would be hilarious.
Speaker: 4
01:05:41
Part he had a it was part of a TV show. He had I saw another clip recently.
Speaker: 2
01:05:44
Oh, that’s right.
Speaker: 4
01:05:45
He has, like, a prank show. He was trying to prank people. It’s like probably pre,
Speaker: 2
01:05:49
Jackass? Yeah. But I’m trying to think
Speaker: 4
01:05:51
of ai thing they had on MTV that they did with all the celebrities. Couldn’t take
Speaker: 1
01:05:56
them. Oh, punk punk.
Speaker: 4
01:05:57
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:05:58
Got it.
Speaker: 2
01:05:59
OJ was doing that? No. But he Everybody would just run away screaming. People meh. He did it to
Speaker: 4
01:06:03
a lady, like, walked up to her hotel room with a knife.
Speaker: 2
01:06:06
Oh, my God. That was one of his scenes? Yeah. Jesus Christ.
Speaker: 4
01:06:11
You Got Juice is what it was called. You Got Juice.
Speaker: 1
01:06:13
You Got Juice. Damn.
Speaker: 2
01:06:15
But I
Speaker: 4
01:06:15
don’t I’m trying to find this. Also, the music video had a
Speaker: 2
01:06:19
bunch of, that was Naked Ladies?
Speaker: 4
01:06:20
Yeah. It was aired on, like, pay per view. Oh. It’s the Spice Channel or something like ai.
Speaker: 2
01:06:25
That. Speak remember the Spice Channel? Yeah. But that whole thing going from that verdict to ai and going back to work.
Speaker: 4
01:06:37
There’s a picture. Something video
Speaker: 1
01:06:39
Oh, my.
Speaker: 2
01:06:40
Yeah. Look at that. The musical. Look at that. I remember one time meh were, filming news radio. I was in the middle of that North Hollywood shootout. Do you remember that?
Speaker: 1
01:06:48
I do. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:06:48
And we’re watching it live on TV Yeah. While trying to do a sitcom. Sana we’re like, we probably should take some time off here. There’s a fucking war going on in the middle of North Hollywood. Wow.
Speaker: 1
01:06:59
Yeah. That was I think that involved a
Speaker: 2
01:07:00
lot of cocaine and steroids too. Ram the from the brothers? From the ai?
Speaker: 1
01:07:05
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:07:05
I know they were definitely on steroids. Yeah. But I think they were there was probably some Or meth.
Speaker: 1
01:07:10
Something like that. I think meth would have kept them there for a lot longer. Yeah. For people
Speaker: 2
01:07:15
who don’t know the story, these guys, did they they rob a bank? Is that what they did?
Speaker: 1
01:07:20
Yeah. But waited.
Speaker: 2
01:07:21
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:07:21
Like, could have driven away. Could have left with all the all all all the dough.
Speaker: 2
01:07:26
And they decided to get in a shootout with the cops Yeah. And killed cops. Right? Yes. I mean and they got killed, but a bunch of cops got hit. And the cops were, like, horribly outgunned.
Speaker: 1
01:07:37
Oh, yeah. Those cops had
Speaker: 2
01:07:38
their nine millimeter pistols, and these guys have fucking machine guns and bulletproof vests.
Speaker: 1
01:07:42
Yeah. Kevlar helmets and face masks.
Speaker: 2
01:07:45
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:07:46
Yeah. Now do you support that when the dude finally kills himself that it was a simultaneous sniper shot at the same time?
Speaker: 2
01:07:55
I never even looked into that. Is that one of the conspiracies?
Speaker: 1
01:07:57
Well, it’s just it’s yeah. That’s one thing that they claim.
Speaker: 2
01:08:01
That he got shot and shot himself at the exact same time?
Speaker: 1
01:08:05
The exact same
Speaker: 2
01:08:07
time. It’s possible.
Speaker: 1
01:08:07
But why would they like, what does that serve? Like, what does that
Speaker: 2
01:08:11
Maybe they were already gonna shoot him, and he shot himself. And they didn’t think he was gonna shoot himself, and they pulled the trigger right when he did.
Speaker: 1
01:08:18
Got it.
Speaker: 2
01:08:18
That’s what I would guess, if that’s the case.
Speaker: 1
01:08:20
But it’s not like they have to be let off the hook because at that point, that dude has to be put down.
Speaker: 2
01:08:24
Yeah. I mean, one of the guys had already been shot and he was shot in the leg and they didn’t get him any medical help. They knew he was gonna bleed out. You know, I think I think that was the case. I think he got shot in his femoral artery.
Speaker: 4
01:08:36
Yeah. The fur the first guy it says he died by this is from Wikipedia. He died by suicide via gunshot to the head from his handgun ai being hit by rifle fire from LAPD officers with one round striking and severing his spine.
Speaker: 2
01:08:48
Woah.
Speaker: 4
01:08:50
The other guy got shot 20 over 29 times and died from blood loss.
Speaker: 1
01:08:54
Wow. But you I mean, what are the odds that the Crazy. That the thing with the Yeah. It’s kinda like
Speaker: 2
01:09:01
It sounds like there were a lot of bullets were flying in his direction.
Speaker: 4
01:09:05
Every 2,000 rounds were found. Jesus.
Speaker: 1
01:09:08
3,000. Ai, what does that weigh? Ai, if you’re carding that around and you’ve got a whole duffle of cash
Speaker: 2
01:09:16
Yeah. You must have a heavy trunk. Yeah. Yeah. That is bananas.
Speaker: 4
01:09:20
Half was the police, but
Speaker: 2
01:09:22
wow. Still Imagine being in that that neighborhood. They
Speaker: 4
01:09:28
ai I think that’s where I moved
Speaker: 2
01:09:29
my thousand rounds are flying in both directions.
Speaker: 1
01:09:32
Well, the cops, like, went to a gun store. Right? Didn’t they?
Speaker: 2
01:09:35
I think they did.
Speaker: 1
01:09:36
Like, right when it arya, and they were like, whatever you got. You know, give us your your biggest bore ai, you know, whatever you got. We’ll take it. Yeah. How much ammo you got?
Speaker: 2
01:09:45
I mean, how long did that go on for?
Speaker: 4
01:09:48
About an hour. Wow. They had homemade body armor. SWAT team wasn’t ready for that. They had to commandeer an armored vehicle to evacuate wounded people. Wow. Yeah. Then they, that’s that’s kinda sparked the debate for police to get more power. Jeez.
Speaker: 1
01:10:06
Yeah. That was a that was kind of a that was a turning point moment.
Speaker: 2
01:10:08
Yeah. And if you’re a real conspiracy theorist, then you say, oh, MK Ultra tricked those guys into doing that sai that the cops can get better guns.
Speaker: 1
01:10:15
Militarized ai yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:10:17
Well, this is the problem with conspiracies. People would try attribute them to everything. Right. Really get down the rabbit hole. Everything’s a conspiracy.
Speaker: 1
01:10:25
Yeah. But then when they do that, they kind of, they they they they harm the credibility of the ones that that can really be, you know, considered for for, you you know, for for the for how we know them to be, you know, after after all the extensive research.
Speaker: 2
01:10:47
Yeah. No doubt. Yeah. There’s real ones. But I think that’s also part of the thing reason why, you know, some really silly conspiracy theories get pushed. I think they get pushed by bots, and I think they get pushed by paid accounts.
Speaker: 1
01:11:00
To to water down the real ones. Yeah. To make Yeah. Make
Speaker: 2
01:11:03
them look stupid and they’re, like, attach them attach a really stupid conspiracy to one that’s legitimate.
Speaker: 1
01:11:08
Right. And
Speaker: 2
01:11:08
then it discredits the legitimate one.
Speaker: 1
01:11:10
Yeah. It’s almost ai, you know, not to introduce this, but just from afar, it’s almost ai, a lot of the QAnon stuff kind of had that Mhmm. Fact just Yeah. You know? I didn’t dig deep into that and don’t you know? And only know just the just the basic, you you you you know, talking points about it. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:11:30
But, but one thing I did see that was felt like a a a constant was that there was always, ai they’d meh something that was just completely screwy, it was followed up with the ones that that that we believe to be real. Right. You know, they’re they’re just ai this big just this kinda just put them all on the same.
Speaker: 2
01:11:51
Yeah. A stew of good stuff and bullshit.
Speaker: 1
01:11:54
Exactly. Yeah. And just just stirred that cauldron. You know?
Speaker: 2
01:11:57
Yeah. That’s a very convenient way to bury truth. The QAnon documentary on HBO was great. Enter the Fire, that was called.
Speaker: 4
01:12:06
Yeah. Into I
Speaker: 1
01:12:09
ai, I didn’t see it.
Speaker: 4
01:12:10
Into the Storm.
Speaker: 2
01:12:12
Into the Storm.
Speaker: 1
01:12:12
Oh, okay.
Speaker: 2
01:12:13
It’s really good.
Speaker: 1
01:12:13
Is it? Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:12:14
It’s a multi part thing on all the people that were involved in four chan and the creation of QAnon. Okay. Who they think the original guy was, and they think another guy took it over after a while and took over the account.
Speaker: 1
01:12:27
Got it.
Speaker: 2
01:12:27
And it seems like they were just ai of fucking around at first. But it’s not definitive. Like, he’s got some really good evidence that points in that direction, but it’s it’s just hard to know. And, you know, everyone always thought that it was someone inside the White House. There was some, like, secret person inside the White House.
Speaker: 2
01:12:45
It doesn’t seem like this documentary believes that. The ai made this documentary, he pins it on one guy in particular that’s a a tech nerd that seems to have all of the attributes of someone who could pull off a a QAnon type deal.
Speaker: 1
01:13:01
Checks every box?
Speaker: 2
01:13:01
Yeah. Check every super smart, you know, Internet shit poster, you know, running 4chan, you know, and, like, that’s the whole thing over there. It’s ai meh people to do stuff that’s stupid.
Speaker: 1
01:13:13
Right.
Speaker: 2
01:13:13
Like, they got women to freebleed. They they arya pushing this idea that you, you know, it’s, the patriarchy is making you wear a tampon, and you should just your menstrual cycle should just flow in your pants, and who cares? And this is ai a a sign of your strong femininity. It was just them being crazy, and then a bunch of women just adopted it. How? Not for long.
Speaker: 1
01:13:35
Obviously, it’s gross.
Speaker: 2
01:13:36
They were like, this is stupid. We could probably last a couple weeks, but but a bunch of women How? But it’s that’s people are really susceptible. You could get people to do that. Not everybody.
Speaker: 1
01:13:46
Right.
Speaker: 2
01:13:46
But it’s just like the Haight Ashbury free clinic thing. Not everybody’s gonna join your call.
Speaker: 1
01:13:50
Right.
Speaker: 2
01:13:50
But if you open up a free clinic, you’re gonna get enough, you know, lost children that come in through your doors.
Speaker: 1
01:13:57
Well, they’re gonna need your legit services Yeah. To start with. Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker: 2
01:14:02
Exactly. Yeah. You gotta sort it out. Right.
Speaker: 1
01:14:06
Right. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:14:07
It’s just nuts that that that’s our government. That’s our our daddies. Our our government daddies. The people that we’re supposed to be looking to to help us lead a prosperous life and secure our standing in the world Sure. And make sure we’ve grow financially, and these motherfuckers did all that.
Speaker: 1
01:14:26
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, ultimate power. Right?
Speaker: 2
01:14:31
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In any form. Well, they’re bringing it back to stardom. Like, that’s a weird power to get somebody. It’s a especially when you’re 21 years old. Stardom. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:14:44
It’s a
Speaker: 2
01:14:44
weird power. Weird amount of freedom. Weird amount of, like, people expecting you to be kinda wild.
Speaker: 1
01:14:50
Sure. Yeah. And, again, that thing you talked about where you watch it happen to others and then suddenly it’s it’s it’s you, it’s, it’s it’s it’s a lot more it’s a lot more intoxicating. And then I would always think, okay. So why why how were they able to control it? Why didn’t why didn’t I see them enjoying it at this level?
Speaker: 1
01:15:18
And it wasn’t about, I’m gonna show them the way they should have been doing it. It was just about, hey, guys. Okay. Cool. No.
Speaker: 1
01:15:25
It’s it’s it it it it ai made its way over here, and and it it it can go to 11, you know, and and and not burn the whole house down, you know, when it was still fun, when it was still creative and and and productive on some level. You know? Because it wasn’t about, it was still having to show up, and it was still, you you know, carving out enough time for the party, but also reserving enough, you you know, energy for the job.
Speaker: 1
01:15:58
Right.
Speaker: 2
01:15:58
You know? That’s the balance.
Speaker: 1
01:15:59
That’s the balance.
Speaker: 2
01:16:00
And some people pull it off. Some people, they’re really disciplined, and they pull off the work, and then they pull off the partying.
Speaker: 1
01:16:07
Right. Right. And I I was able to maintain that for for a long ai, you know. And even when it flamed out, like those early rehabs, and and there was always, like, there was a job, like, the day I got out.
Speaker: 2
01:16:20
Wow.
Speaker: 1
01:16:21
You know, scripts showing up in rehab, and it’s ai they’re just they’re just they they want you to get they want you to get well. K? They want you to get better. But, you know, as soon as you’re out of here, you know, we got we got some good stuff for you to look at.
Speaker: 2
01:16:33
There’s also, unfortunately, a romantic notion of a guy getting out of rehab.
Speaker: 1
01:16:38
Interesting. Right? Interesting.
Speaker: 2
01:16:40
How many cop shows start with a guy who’s down on dumps, putting a pizza in a blender for breakfast? Exactly. You know what I mean? Like, really, like, at his lowest of low points
Speaker: 1
01:16:51
Right.
Speaker: 2
01:16:51
Drinking, and then maybe his daughter ai, and he throws the bottles into the trash can. He’s ai, I’m done. And now he’s back. And there’s a romantic thing of getting your shit together.
Speaker: 1
01:17:01
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like Charlie’s back.
Speaker: 2
01:17:03
Better than ever. Yeah. You know?
Speaker: 1
01:17:05
Yeah. And it’s, it’s, you know, everybody’s rooting for you again.
Speaker: 2
01:17:09
Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:17:10
And they and they and they’re expecting the the the guy to deliver
Speaker: 2
01:17:14
Yeah. With passion now. With real life experience. He was a drug addict.
Speaker: 1
01:17:18
Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:17:19
Look at Robert Downey Junior now.
Speaker: 1
01:17:20
Right.
Speaker: 2
01:17:21
Yeah. Sai mean, people love that. They love that.
Speaker: 1
01:17:24
But the same thing was happening to Downey when when he when when he was in rehab or maybe when he was even in the pen when they, what people were bringing him I I think he was I think they brought him Ally McBeal when he was still in jail. Oh. And I don’t think I think he still got high after that. You know? And my dad would always be, like, yelling at the television.
Speaker: 1
01:17:44
It’s ai, stop rewarding his this behavior. Stop rewarding it. Let him let him let him sit in those consequences. Not out of judgment ai out of punishment or, you know, just out of love, you know.
Speaker: 2
01:17:57
To help him get his shit together. Yeah. If you keep letting them fuck up over and over again, they’ll continue to fuck up. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:18:04
But if there’s always a carrot the day you walk out, you know, something to something to chase and and and and a soft landing. Yeah. You know? That’s what was really interesting about this, you know, this this this, this decades decade long time out that I got that I got put into, you know, which, you know, at some point, the the punishment has to just sort of fit the crime.
Speaker: 1
01:18:28
Right? And, yeah, it was it was it it felt like it had it it was a little bit longer than it than it should have been. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t remember any murder charges. You know?
Speaker: 1
01:18:40
But at the same time, there’s not a chance that I that I could have done the the two projects that I’ve that, wow, the book came out yesterday and the doc comes out today. You know? Ai I couldn’t have done either unless I had the kind of perspective and distance from all of that that I that I was able to to to meh, to find.
Speaker: 1
01:19:05
You know?
Speaker: 2
01:19:06
You’ve been sober for how long? Seven years?
Speaker: 1
01:19:08
Coming up on eight. Eight years.
Speaker: 2
01:19:10
Yeah. Ai be
Speaker: 1
01:19:11
eight in December.
Speaker: 2
01:19:12
That probably helped a lot to be away from everything to to free you to achieve that.
Speaker: 1
01:19:17
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was still doing things to, you you you know, just kinda stay in the mix a little bit. And, you you know, I do sai. I do speaking engagements, do stuff like that. But it was also, like, it’s like as soon as I quit drinking, all my kids started showing up again.
Speaker: 2
01:19:34
And,
Speaker: 1
01:19:34
you know, Sam and Lola were living there, and then they’d they’d they’d cycle back with Denise. And then Bob and Max would show up, and then they’d Brooke would come back and, like, okay. So he he’s gonna be here, and then Lola would show back up. So my house was kinda like
Speaker: 2
01:19:48
it’s kinda
Speaker: 1
01:19:48
like this it was like a clubhouse. You know? And I write in the book that my that that that my vacancy sign, you know, for for for those children, always always hangs facing out. You know? So it was, you know, being being called to a to a to a much more responsible and complicated, set of responsibilities and and and order, you know, and just having to do stuff that they’d they didn’t care about, you know, ai of a show or response to a movie or any, like, popularity or or Ai, you you you you know, stuff.
Speaker: 1
01:20:25
They they were just, like, you know, with the basic needs and getting to school and help with this. And so so it was really cool to, like, suddenly just be that that’s the only stuff that that that that mattered to the people that matter the most. Mhmm. And so and and yeah. But you’re ai.
Speaker: 1
01:20:45
That that none of that could’ve happened if I was away on location or having to be at a studio
Speaker: 2
01:20:51
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:20:52
Every speak. Or
Speaker: 2
01:20:52
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:20:53
But, yeah. I think it’s I it was about the time that it that it created. You know? So, and and it it’s interesting that that I’m not I’m not, like, I’m not looking at this as a as ai a comeback. You know? K. It’s a it’s a it’s a I think it’s a reset. I think it’s a reset. You know?
Speaker: 1
01:21:14
And and I didn’t I didn’t, I didn’t rely on anything that I’ve done before. Never written a book. Never done a documentary, you know. But to come back with two projects that, everybody seems to be really excited about The
Speaker: 2
01:21:30
documentary is very entertaining.
Speaker: 1
01:21:32
Awesome. Thank
Speaker: 2
01:21:32
you. It’s very entertaining. It’s it’s it’s really well done with the ways put together and it’s just so the stories are fucking bananas.
Speaker: 1
01:21:40
It’s just sai
Speaker: 2
01:21:42
it’s so bananas. It’s the the whole thing was just so nuts. But, you know, like I said, everybody loves a story of someone getting their shit together. And, that’s a great accomplishment of being sober for almost eight years. It really is.
Speaker: 1
01:21:55
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it’s, people are gonna yell at me because of how I I deal with that with the AA in the book, and that’s fine. I just speak to my personal experiences. I’m not I’m not How
Speaker: 2
01:22:06
do you deal with it?
Speaker: 1
01:22:08
That I I I tried it for a long time. I I for a combined 21, and just decided that that I had to give this give this a go on my own.
Speaker: 2
01:22:19
So you just do it completely on your own? You don’t have any, person do you call or any
Speaker: 1
01:22:27
No. I mean, there’s people that that are sober that I still talk to and receive. You
Speaker: 2
01:22:32
don’t have a sponsor or
Speaker: 1
01:22:33
something like that. No. I don’t. No. No.
Speaker: 2
01:22:37
I don’t does help some people.
Speaker: 1
01:22:38
Of course. And that’s why I don’t wanna say that it’s I I’m not recommending that this is another
Speaker: 2
01:22:46
Right. You’re just saying your truth. This is how you do it.
Speaker: 4
01:22:48
I had
Speaker: 2
01:22:48
a very good friend who was a alcoholic who quit one day. He crashed his car, ran from the cops on foot, got arrested, and then he’s like, what am I doing with my life? I’m done. He quit.
Speaker: 1
01:22:59
Ai, that day.
Speaker: 2
01:23:00
Shah there. Yeah. Never had a drink again. I knew him for twenty years now.
Speaker: 1
01:23:04
It happens. It can happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I but I I think that I that I do have the experience of all all of that time in and around the ram. You know? And and and that’s not to say that I don’t still remember a couple of nuggets, a couple of things that still stuck with me that I still thought you still see as valuable.
Speaker: 1
01:23:23
Right. You know? But, it’s there there’s there’s a line in the book that it’s it’s it’s it’s hard to ask for help when when somebody else has raised your hand for you. You know? Interventions, you’re ai into a thing.
Speaker: 2
01:23:39
Right. You’re told to do ai, and
Speaker: 1
01:23:40
you’re just all you’re doing is just counting the days.
Speaker: 2
01:23:42
Yeah. That’s the part of the documentary too when they the first intervention when you got brought into a room and everybody’s sitting there waiting for you. You thought it was a party.
Speaker: 1
01:23:50
Well, yeah. I mean, that’s a little suspicious because it’s 9AM. Why is dad having a 9AM birthday party?
Speaker: 2
01:23:56
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:23:56
Unless we’re going to Magic Mountain. Right? That’s usually the time you leave.
Speaker: 2
01:24:01
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:24:01
That’s usually for a seven year old. Right?
Speaker: 2
01:24:03
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:24:05
Yeah. No. That would that was wild. That is something that I can still see as it happened on the day. Really? Turning that corner in the hallway into my parents’ living room and,
Speaker: 2
01:24:16
like
Speaker: 1
01:24:17
and my brain is still trying to turn it into a birthday party. My brain I insisted that that’s what we’re there for. You know? That’s funny. And it just when it starts to dawn on you like, have you ever taken a sip of something that was in the wrong bottle
Speaker: 0
01:24:32
Mhmm. But your
Speaker: 1
01:24:33
brain saw the label
Speaker: 2
01:24:34
Uh-huh.
Speaker: 1
01:24:34
And so your it takes your body Like a half a second. To catch up to that’s not those don’t match.
Speaker: 2
01:24:40
Uh-huh.
Speaker: 1
01:24:40
Those don’t match. Yeah. Yeah. I have a story about that, but I probably shouldn’t tell it on either. But, yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:24:49
And then ram didn’t work. It didn’t work that way. You had to do it on your own.
Speaker: 1
01:24:52
It it worked for a year. It worked for a year. But then, like, as is in in the dock, I’m at I’m at, you know, Cage’s house, and I I on on the anniversary, on the one year, I find that beer in his fridge. I’m like, well, that’s there for a reason.
Speaker: 2
01:25:09
Yeah. You
Speaker: 1
01:25:09
know? It’s just caused us it’s caused us to celebrate. That’s not an accident. Yeah. And just didn’t even think twice.
Speaker: 2
01:25:17
Wow.
Speaker: 1
01:25:17
Just was like, ai. Boom.
Speaker: 2
01:25:20
And now we’re off to the races. We’re off to the races. Yeah. Wow. How did you get sober this time?
Speaker: 1
01:25:27
I, I’d I’d gotten off the drugs. Gotten off the dope. But you when I say dope, that’s always Coke. Never heroin. He’s never never a heroin guy. I’d I’d been off that, jeez, probably over ten years. You know? And so I mean, more than ten years, like, sitting here today. So I had I hadn’t I hadn’t fucked around with any of that shit for a few years. Ai was just I was I just committed to drinking. You know?
Speaker: 1
01:25:55
And then found that to be, like, the most unmanageable drug, that that I’ve ever tried to navigate. Drinking. You know, drinking. Yeah. Drinking.
Speaker: 2
01:26:09
More than cocaine.
Speaker: 1
01:26:10
Yeah. Because there’s never a time when you can’t get it. You know? And and when I had made the decision that I okay. I’m just going to drink, I I treated it like like I did drugs. You know? Yeah. But it it’s it’s it’s it’s really it’s kind of it it’s it’s very accepted, and it’s it’s it’s it’s very socially ingrained. You know?
Speaker: 1
01:26:35
It’s like it’s it’s a It’s normal. Yeah. It’s always Miller Ai. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:26:38
You wanna smoke a joint some in front of someone that might be like, hey.
Speaker: 1
01:26:41
What do you what’s going on here? Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:26:43
You wanna have a drink in front of someone, completely normal. Everyone does
Speaker: 1
01:26:46
it. Sure. Yeah. But sai, I I knew the way my body was starting to react and that the way I was starting to feel and and and just it it just I I I couldn’t feel it how I used to even at, like, really, like, powerful doses. You know? I just couldn’t and that that that got depressing. That that wasn’t ai, I’ll just drink twice as much now. That was ai, damn.
Speaker: 1
01:27:16
The thing I relied on is now just, like, told me Yeah. Yeah. We’re it’s no.
Speaker: 2
01:27:22
You’re too much of a tolerance now.
Speaker: 1
01:27:23
Our relationship is now different. Yeah. Yeah. And so there was a day, and it’s it’s it’s in the book, and and I I, you know, I was a morning drinker. I Ai loved, you know, spiking my coffee. That’s ai for me, it was like the best time to drink. I mean, you’re not gonna get shit done the rest of the day, but that’s when I felt it. That’s when I just don’t feel it was in the morning.
Speaker: 1
01:27:48
You know? So I’m on, like, my third McAllen coffee or whatever, and my daughter, Sam, like, calls from she she’s at the house and calls and says, hey. What time are we leaving? Like, to to go where? She had a hair appointment, and it was a Sunday, I think, or a Saturday.
Speaker: 1
01:28:06
And I’ve never ever mixed, the cups and the wheel ever. I’ve never had a DUI. How about that?
Speaker: 2
01:28:16
That’s awesome.
Speaker: 1
01:28:17
That’s pretty good. Right? That’s very good. I just Ai just decided, like, a long time ago, like, when I was, like, 17 that that ram never gonna happen.
Speaker: 2
01:28:25
Good for you.
Speaker: 1
01:28:26
And I was living in a limo back then. There was, you know, the occasional cab. But these days these days to get busted for drinking and driving with the available transportation
Speaker: 2
01:28:39
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:28:39
It is literally 15 choices in your hand. Right. It’s there’s no excuse.
Speaker: 2
01:28:44
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:28:44
And so I call Ai call Tony. I said, Tony, well, you know, I can’t drive. You gotta help me get Sam to this thing. And and so he was like, I’ll be ai there in twenty minutes. We got her to the appointment. It went great. And there was there was a moment in the car driving back.
Speaker: 1
01:29:01
And and, I I I describe it in the book, you know, and I I could see her in two mirrors, the visor and and the side view. And she was just kinda sitting back there. And I I’m not saying that I know exactly what she was thinking, but I could feel what I what I’m pretty sure she was.
Speaker: 1
01:29:19
And it was just this thing about, you know, why it’s yeah. It’s cool that dad did this, but why why isn’t dad driving again? Right. You know, why why is there always Disappointment. Yeah. And it’s not nothing with Tony. You you ai?
Speaker: 1
01:29:34
He’s been around forever and and, you know, and and and it was so we got we got back from that, and and and I and it was there was something that I couldn’t shake. It was something that stayed with meh, just the images of her, this little 13 year old kid in the back speak. And her dad can’t even take her to, like, a to get just a basic, just ai up the highway to a hair appointment.
Speaker: 1
01:29:58
Like, that that got that was complicated. You know? Yeah. And I was like, what am I doing? And then I I just sat inside I sat inside of that for a while because it didn’t feel good. And I and I thought, okay.
Speaker: 1
01:30:13
What can I do to not to stop feeling like this? The math is pretty simple at that point. You know? Yeah. And, you know, I wasn’t doing gonna do rehab.
Speaker: 1
01:30:22
I wasn’t gonna do a big dramatic, you you know, ai, turnaround or I was just gonna just make a decision and stick to it. Mhmm. And, you know, I took a few Valium, drank a few beers, and then the next day, just woke up and said I’m done and didn’t care. I didn’t I made a decision. I wasn’t gonna care how I felt physically. I was just gonna, like, just Grit and bear it. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:30:50
How long
Speaker: 2
01:30:51
did it take before you felt okay?
Speaker: 1
01:30:52
About three days. Mhmm. The story I had written that was gonna be a month was just, like, that that that that was fake. And it was and so and then it just coincidentally, it happened to be my oldest daughter, Cassandra’s birthday when I quit, December 12. You know? It was just like, okay. That’s all aligned. And then, then something else happened after that Because everybody’s gonna get a little squirrelly.
Speaker: 1
01:31:22
Like, you can push the problem with a guy like me is that and people like me is you’re able to put things back together really quickly.
Speaker: 2
01:31:33
Ai? Right.
Speaker: 1
01:31:34
And and kind of just kinda reassemble the pieces.
Speaker: 2
01:31:37
So you’re not as scared to go off the rails.
Speaker: 1
01:31:39
Right. Right. Right. And, and so then I got a call. This is the post you know, already had HIV for for several years at this point. I get a call that there’s a new medicine. Right? This is about a month after the sai thing. Right? And they’re like, look.
Speaker: 1
01:31:57
We want you to try this thing because it’s it’s it’s a much smaller cocktail. It’s much less toxicity and and no very few side effects. We think you’re gonna do great on it. Right? They said, but you can’t drink on it. The other one, you could drink your fucking face off.
Speaker: 1
01:32:14
Like like, you could you could drink like a pirate on the other one, which they shouldn’t have told me that you can. You know? And so, so I said, okay. Great. So I tried that one, and it was, you know, it was working great. But they said, okay.
Speaker: 1
01:32:30
And if you can just stay off the booze, it’s gonna keep working the light light light like it is. You know? So then this other thing showed up in addition to that, like, just in in concert with it. So now I had a couple things going on. You know, let’s keep this thing, this this, evil stowaway is what I like to call it. Let’s keep that thing in the you know, at bay Uh-huh.
Speaker: 1
01:32:57
And and let’s, you you you know, re re rebuild every relationship that matters in your life, you know, while you’re still here.
Speaker: 2
01:33:04
Did you have a revelation after a while after you were sober for a while where where you stop and think, like, why was I getting so fucked up? Like, what was I what was I trying to avoid? Or what was I trying to enhance? Or what what was the purpose? Like, what was I what what bothered me so much that I couldn’t be sober?
Speaker: 1
01:33:25
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Ai think yeah. It it I I think it was more a void earlier, like, earlier in ai, like, avoid the pressures of fame, avoid the fears of of commitment or relationship or or being, exposed as a fucking fraud at some point. You know? I think that was earlier. And I think enhance came later that that, trying to just make situations just feel more exciting or cooler or or Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:34:03
More, you you know, sexier or you know what I’m saying? Ai, like yeah. But it’s interesting that that you presented both sides of that. You know, avoid enhance.
Speaker: 2
01:34:13
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:34:14
Yeah. I I I I relate to both. You know?
Speaker: 2
01:34:19
Yeah. I think that’s a good thing to tell people too because, everybody wants to hear the drugs like, Bill Hicks had a great joke about nobody ever hears, great drug stories.
Speaker: 1
01:34:29
Right.
Speaker: 2
01:34:30
You know, you only hear the bad ones, you know. And it is true. But the reason why people do it is because it’s fun. Like, it can ruin your life, but it’s also really fun. That’s why people do it. Sure. This is the it’s important for people to know because you don’t want them to think you’re lying to them, you know.
Speaker: 2
01:34:49
And for them to hear you sober and happy and go, okay, that’s possible. You can get there because this guy is admitting what getting high was. You know, like, there’s a there’s a scene in the documentary where you’re talking about the first time you smoked ram, where this girl’s giving you a blowjob while you’re smoking ram, and it was, like, the greatest feeling of all ai?
Speaker: 2
01:35:10
Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, I think that’s important to say.
Speaker: 1
01:35:14
That hasn’t been topped. I I probably shouldn’t say that. I don’t care. I don’t care.
Speaker: 2
01:35:22
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:35:23
That hasn’t been topped.
Speaker: 2
01:35:24
Have you ever heard Hunter Biden talk about crack?
Speaker: 1
01:35:27
I haven’t. No.
Speaker: 2
01:35:28
He was on that Channel five shah, and, he gives this ode to crack that made me wanna immediately go smoke crack.
Speaker: 1
01:35:36
Seriously?
Speaker: 2
01:35:37
Yeah. Because Hunter Biden is a very smart guy. I don’t think people think of him that way because of the laptop thing, but he’s very intelligent. Right. And, very articulate. So when he’s explaining, like, the effects of crack and how different it is and how incredible it is and the euphoria of it, and it’s ai it’s literally saying that he’s, like, getting the itch while he is sitting there sober
Speaker: 1
01:36:01
Chalking, describing it.
Speaker: 2
01:36:02
Working on his sobriety, trying to keep it together. Interesting. After all, publicly shamed Right. For being out of control and saloni talking about crack like a lover that you lost in a a drowning accident. Wow. It’s it’s crazy.
Speaker: 1
01:36:19
I get that. Ai get that. Yeah. That makes sense.
Speaker: 2
01:36:22
I bet you do.
Speaker: 1
01:36:23
There’s a moment in the doc Yeah. Where I tell this the Sandy story. Yeah. And I say, wow. That one actually got me kinda ai. I could feel that. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:36:34
That’s the problem. The problem is it’s great.
Speaker: 1
01:36:36
The problem. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:36:37
Yeah. The problem is
Speaker: 1
01:36:39
Did you ai and no. You don’t have to did did you ever try it
Speaker: 2
01:36:41
or no? No. I never even did Coke.
Speaker: 1
01:36:43
Oh, you never oh. Nope. Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:36:45
No. When I was in high school, I have a good buddy of mine and his cousin was selling Coke.
Speaker: 1
01:36:49
Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:36:50
And his cousin who was super normal, I knew him forever, great guy, Super cool guy. All of a sudden, he became weird and pale and lost all this weight, and it was like he got bit by a vampire. And him and his girlfriend were selling coke, and they would just watch TV and do coke. Wow.
Speaker: 2
01:37:08
And they had like this attic apartment, and it was ai he had gotten bit by a vampire. That’s how it felt like to me. I was like, he just lost his whole life to coke. Wow. And then I saw some other kids that had coke problems around me where they were just dying to get coke. And I was like, this is a bad drug.
Speaker: 2
01:37:26
And back then, I think it was actually coke, you know. I don’t even
Speaker: 1
01:37:31
know if they’re ate ai 80% of it. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:37:33
In the nineteen eighties, I don’t know if they’re cutting it with anything, but I made a decision at one point in time ai my life. No. I don’t sana have nothing to do with that one. That one seems to rob people’s lives.
Speaker: 1
01:37:44
Wow. And you just stuck to that.
Speaker: 2
01:37:45
Yeah. It just seemed to me ai that one can make you a loser.
Speaker: 1
01:37:48
And then did you roll in circles over the years where it was prevalent?
Speaker: 2
01:37:51
Or or Yeah. I knew some people that get did Coke.
Speaker: 1
01:37:55
Never worked out well.
Speaker: 2
01:37:57
I didn’t know anybody who did Coke who, like, kept their life together. Everybody who did Coke was, like, barely together, barely hanging on, always off the rails.
Speaker: 1
01:38:05
Sai. Ai think there’s, like, one guy.
Speaker: 2
01:38:08
One guy out there, some superhero. He keeps it together.
Speaker: 1
01:38:11
Maintained it all those years was was Jack Nicholson.
Speaker: 2
01:38:14
Oh, yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:38:14
I think he I think he’s, like, the only guy. Right. I mean, do we know of anybody else?
Speaker: 2
01:38:19
Well, they might ai be public about it.
Speaker: 1
01:38:21
Right.
Speaker: 2
01:38:22
You know?
Speaker: 1
01:38:22
But what about the rumors that that that Jack always traveled with, like, a doctor?
Speaker: 2
01:38:27
Have you
Speaker: 1
01:38:27
heard this shit? Have you heard these stories?
Speaker: 2
01:38:30
No. No? No. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:38:32
That he’s had a doctor that that that carried his coke or distributed
Speaker: 2
01:38:36
That’s amazing.
Speaker: 1
01:38:37
And only gave him just just what he needed. Oh. Yeah. No. I don’t know. I mean, these
Speaker: 2
01:38:42
are these shah right there.
Speaker: 1
01:38:43
Exactly. You
Speaker: 2
01:38:44
get a doctor with a fucking leather satchel to carry your coke around?
Speaker: 1
01:38:48
Yeah. And it’s just he’s just close to
Speaker: 2
01:38:49
I’d make him wear a stethoscope everywhere you go, bro.
Speaker: 1
01:38:52
Has to. You need
Speaker: 2
01:38:53
to have a stethoscope on. Everybody’s gotta know you’re legit. Yeah. But that’s, like, that’s one
Speaker: 1
01:38:58
of the great, like, eighties rumors about Jack. That’s so
Speaker: 2
01:39:00
funny. Ai never heard
Speaker: 1
01:39:01
that rumor. Some guy.
Speaker: 2
01:39:03
That makes sense.
Speaker: 1
01:39:03
But then you’d be around Jack. I was only around him a few tyler, but then then, you know, it was cool as hell. And you’re always kinda looking like, alright. Who’s the bag man? Who’s this guy? Right. Right. Right. Where is he? You know? Or who’s the bag man for that night?
Speaker: 1
01:39:16
You know? Yeah. Like, was it a team of doctors that rotated?
Speaker: 2
01:39:19
Dangerfield party till the end. He, he
Speaker: 1
01:39:23
Yeah. He did.
Speaker: 2
01:39:23
He kept that trailer rolling.
Speaker: 1
01:39:24
Yeah. He did. Yeah. Down down
Speaker: 2
01:39:26
down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down.
Speaker: 1
01:39:27
We lived in we lived in the same building for a while.
Speaker: 2
01:39:30
You in Dangerfield? No way.
Speaker: 1
01:39:32
It’s that building in the book called the Wilshire On Wilshire. Oh, wow. Ai. I maybe saw him twice. I got in the elevator with him one ai, and and we’d we’d seen each other out but never really had, like, an elevator moment,
Speaker: 2
01:39:46
you know.
Speaker: 1
01:39:47
And he goes, hey, kid. How you doing? You look great.
Speaker: 2
01:39:49
And he’s ai, yes. He goes, hey. What? He goes Look at that. Yeah. That’s ai with Kennison. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker: 1
01:39:56
But in the elevator
Speaker: 2
01:39:59
Look at Rod. He looks funny just in his photo. Yeah. Just in the photo, you start laughing.
Speaker: 1
01:40:04
Doing nothing.
Speaker: 2
01:40:05
He was so good, dude.
Speaker: 1
01:40:07
I I can’t tell you what happened that night. I don’t know where we were, but it looks like the jacket is definitely at circa 8990. The, that looks like a backstage something that’s on my jacket. Right?
Speaker: 2
01:40:21
Yeah. Probably at a Poison concert or something.
Speaker: 1
01:40:24
Perhaps. So So we’re in the elementary. He says, hey. What are you what are you? Puerto Rican?
Speaker: 2
01:40:30
Right?
Speaker: 1
01:40:30
And I and I said, no. I’m I’m I’m Spanish Irish. And he says, you don’t know whether to start a parade or start a war. And it’s ai doors open, and he he just walks out. He just had that on standby or or built it in the moment.
Speaker: 2
01:40:45
He probably built it in the moment. Yeah. Yeah. And
Speaker: 1
01:40:47
I was just like so I can’t really ever describe my heritage without hearing his voice, you know. Start a parade or start a war.
Speaker: 2
01:40:56
That’s funny.
Speaker: 1
01:40:56
And I’m just ai, wow. Just left me with that gold, you know.
Speaker: 2
01:41:00
We have his handwritten notes at our our comedy club in the video. Oh, yeah. For one of his ai show appearances, we have his handwritten notes ram to all the stuff he’s gonna talk about.
Speaker: 1
01:41:09
Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:41:09
It’s pretty cool.
Speaker: 1
01:41:10
Wow. And and and would he would he stick to Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker: 2
01:41:14
It’s ai his jokes and he had, like, the punch lines, ai, accented bold letters.
Speaker: 1
01:41:18
Oh, seriously?
Speaker: 2
01:41:19
Speak. Ai wrote it all out darker. So he
Speaker: 1
01:41:21
was he was, like, super organized.
Speaker: 2
01:41:22
Yeah. Super organized. Damn. Well, he he stopped doing stand up for a long time and he was selling aluminum siding. And then he made it again when he was much older in life. He came back and Wow. The thing that happened was from the time he stopped doing stand up to when he went back to having a regular job, he never stopped writing jokes.
Speaker: 2
01:41:39
Ai, his brain just worked that way. So he was just always writing jokes. Sai when he came back
Speaker: 1
01:41:44
Sitting on a treasure trove.
Speaker: 2
01:41:45
Yeah. Wow. Yes. And he just fucking stormed the gates. When he came back, everybody’s like, where’s this guy been?
Speaker: 1
01:41:51
That’s amazing.
Speaker: 2
01:41:52
Yeah. Wow. And then he became huge. Back to School and the Roddy Dangerfield HBO comedy specials and
Speaker: 1
01:41:59
He’s epic. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:42:00
Oh, he’s one of the all time So he
Speaker: 1
01:42:01
came back as do do doing stand ai.
Speaker: 2
01:42:03
I think he was in his forties. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:42:06
Got got some heat again. Uh-huh. And that that activated the films?
Speaker: 2
01:42:09
Yeah. Well, the stand up, he didn’t have any heat before. But when he quit, you know, he was just, like, kind of, like, getting ai, doing alright, and got a job. Quit. Wow. I think he might have quit for ten years. Wow. Yeah. And then the whole time he’s writing and then he’s like, fuck it.
Speaker: 2
01:42:25
I gotta do this and then got back into comedy.
Speaker: 1
01:42:28
Wow. I
Speaker: 2
01:42:28
hope I’m not fucking that story up, but I think I’m I think I’m accurate with that. See if you can find it. Make sure that’s true. I’m 90% sure that’s true. But I know that he didn’t make it until he was in his forties. And, I told this the other day, but I’ll tell it again. I used to work at Great Woods Center for the Performing Arts in Mansfield, Massachusetts.
Speaker: 2
01:42:46
I was security guy there.
Speaker: 1
01:42:48
Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:42:48
And, I was backstage or by the by the outside of the backstage, and Ron De Dangerfield would go on stage completely naked with a bathrobe on. That’s what he would wear. And he was wearing a bathrobe backstage with slippers and just walking around. I was like, this guy’s wild. Wow.
Speaker: 2
01:43:06
And they’re ai, he goes on stage like that. I’m like, shut the fuck up.
Speaker: 1
01:43:09
Was it partially closed at least, or it was just wild?
Speaker: 2
01:43:12
It was closed. Oh, okay. He wouldn’t let everybody see his dick. Got it. But if you went in the green room, you were seeing his dick.
Speaker: 1
01:43:16
Because he’s now
Speaker: 2
01:43:17
you just sit there, his dick
Speaker: 1
01:43:18
would be hanging out. He
Speaker: 2
01:43:19
didn’t care. Ai struggled financially for nine years, one port forming as a singing waiter until he was fired before taking a job selling aluminum siding in the mid fifties to support his wife and family. He later quipped, so in the nineteen sixties, he started reviving his career. Oh, damn. Yeah. So somewhere close to ten years.
Speaker: 2
01:43:39
Still working as a salesman by day, he returned to the stage performing at hotels in the Catskills Mountains, but still finding minimal success. He fell into debt, about $20,000 ai his own estimate, could get booked. Dangerfield came to realize what he lacked was an image, a well defined on stage persona that the audience could relate to, one that would distinguish him from other comics.
Speaker: 2
01:43:59
After being shunned by some premier comedy venues, he returned home where he began developing a character for whom nothing goes right. Isn’t that crazy? Wow. Wow. Damn.
Speaker: 2
01:44:10
Oh, look at this. During Roy’s comeback bid who’s Roy?
Speaker: 4
01:44:15
He was that he said that. When he was 19, he was Jack Roy.
Speaker: 2
01:44:19
Oh. So he had to change his name.
Speaker: 4
01:44:21
He had
Speaker: 2
01:44:21
to become Rodney Dangerfield. Oh. People ai him.
Speaker: 1
01:44:24
Wow. Wanna use that checking in at hotels from now on.
Speaker: 2
01:44:28
Wanting to distinguish himself from ai patrons who might have remembered him from the nineteen forties, Roy asked club owner George McFadden to change his name. He came up with Rodney Dangerfield. Wow. He didn’t want people to remember him as Jack Roy from back in the day. He didn’t like his old act. Wow. Wow.
Speaker: 2
01:44:47
He said, I don’t know where it came from. McFadden may have taken it from the Jack Benny program on NBC Radio, which first used Rodney Dangerfield as a character’s name in 1941. Ricky Nelson also used the suit used the pseudonym pseudonym in a 1962 episode of The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet. Wow. That’s crazy. Wow. That’s when he popped again.
Speaker: 2
01:45:15
That’s amazing. That’s nuts.
Speaker: 1
01:45:16
Wow. Go get him. Yeah. Maybe he didn’t know whether to start a parade or start a
Speaker: 2
01:45:22
war. Yeah. He was a fun guy. I knew a lot of people who knew him. I didn’t get a chance to meet him. I I saw him once at the laugh factor. I ran into him. I sai, hi, but that was it. I never really got a chance to talk.
Speaker: 1
01:45:32
Sai you did have have a moment?
Speaker: 2
01:45:34
Yeah. A moment. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:45:36
Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:45:36
It was he was, just leaving the stage. He was ai.
Speaker: 1
01:45:40
Oh, thank you.
Speaker: 2
01:45:41
And he had some Thank you. Hot milk with him.
Speaker: 1
01:45:44
Awesome. Thank you. I was
Speaker: 2
01:45:45
like, you go, Rodney.
Speaker: 1
01:45:47
Why not? Why not?
Speaker: 2
01:45:50
I think it was probably his wife. He’s his wife is, who donated us these, these, handwritten notes and also the photograph of them too. It’s pretty cool. It’s just there’s a few guys like that that, you know, without them, you you always wonder, like, where would comedy be? Like, where would it ever turn up?
Speaker: 2
01:46:09
Like, so many people, ai, Pryor and him and Lenny Bryden. So many people that just, like, changed everything.
Speaker: 1
01:46:17
Carlin?
Speaker: 2
01:46:18
Carlin. Yeah. Yeah. Sai many people just chain Kinison.
Speaker: 1
01:46:21
Sure.
Speaker: 2
01:46:21
They just changed the whole thing. But Dangerfield was one of the rare ones that introduced new comics to people. Ai, those that’s where everybody found out about Kinison. Sai everybody found out about Dice Clay, Don Herrera
Speaker: 1
01:46:34
Right.
Speaker: 2
01:46:35
Lenny Clark. All these guys, Robert Chimel, they all started out on the Rodney Dangerfield HBO comedy specials.
Speaker: 1
01:46:41
Wow. Yeah. So he he would have, like He would,
Speaker: 2
01:46:44
like, have his favorite comedians. Oh. He would just have, like, a show where he would, like, introduce his favorite comedians.
Speaker: 1
01:46:50
But he’d have to scout them at the clubs? Yep.
Speaker: 2
01:46:52
He would go see them.
Speaker: 1
01:46:53
So he’d just go out.
Speaker: 2
01:46:54
And he had his own club in New York City. Okay. Fields.
Speaker: 1
01:46:57
Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:46:57
Yeah. Wow. But he was, you know, he was interested in promoting comedy too. You know? He’s just a fucking amazing guy. That’s such a cool moment you had with him.
Speaker: 1
01:47:10
I can still I can see it. I mean, it’s ai it’s there’s nothing tricky about that meh. You know?
Speaker: 2
01:47:15
What was it like being with your dad while he’s filming Apocalypse Now?
Speaker: 1
01:47:20
It it was it was a lot of that in the book. How old was you? I was I was I went there as a 10 year old. Wow. Ai. I had my eleventh birthday there. It’s been a combined total of eight or nine months there, and that that was going back and forth. You know? It was, it was just it was it wasn’t just another country. It was another planet. You know?
Speaker: 1
01:47:46
We’d seen, you know, different parts of the world traveling with him, you know, Mexico, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, places like that. You know? But then you get to The Philippines, and it was just you just got a sense that, wow, this is all going on at the same time that we’ve been in Malibu, like
Speaker: 2
01:48:11
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:48:12
Kinda, you know, having fun and and just doing cool shah. And the the and sai you visit a place like that and meh in the middle of it and and and engage in in in this entirely just this this just a new it’s such a surreal reality. And then, oh, wait a minute. They’re here to make a movie, and it’s about a film that, it’s it’s it’s about a it’s a film about a war that that end barely ended, like, a year ago.
Speaker: 1
01:48:41
Right? Yeah. Fourteen months ago. When did Saigon fall? Is it ’75? Ai?
Speaker: 2
01:48:47
I think so.
Speaker: 1
01:48:48
Yeah. And they’re and Ai mean, it was, like, right at the tail end of it. And sai, yeah, it was, we, you know, we were able to do enough stuff, like, recreationally, you know, that there there was a lake, and you could water sai. You could fish. You could do those ai of things if you didn’t wanna go to the set with dad.
Speaker: 1
01:49:10
But once you went and saw the set where dad was, you didn’t give a fuck about water sports or fish or anything because what what what what they built and and what they were trying to create was, was was mind blowing. Because, you know, Coppola built Kurtz’s compound out of practical materials. It wasn’t like, you know, like, like, plaster covered, chicken wire rebar.
Speaker: 1
01:49:38
These were, like, you know, two ton boulders
Speaker: 2
01:49:42
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:49:42
They brought in and started stacking in the jungle, way and and, you know, and then a lot of it would start sinking. Couldn’t build a foundation in a riverbank. Right? Right. But then just a mix of people and the talent and Dennis Hopper and Brando and Duvall and and it just it was every day felt, completely unique.
Speaker: 1
01:50:07
You there there was not there was no you you’d go to the sai, and you were going to see something completely different than what you saw the day before. It was it was wild. Wow. Yeah. And and I I gravitated towards this gentleman named Fred Blau, who I mentioned in the book.
Speaker: 1
01:50:26
He was the he was the key makeup artist, you know, FX guy. And so he was building all the prosthetics for all the carnage you see in the movie. You know? Sai I’d walk into his shah, and there’s the arms and legs and heads and but I knew it was all fake. You know? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:50:42
As a 10 year old, when you start seeing how it’s made and and, you know, so so gore, I think I write in the book, was never gore in movies was never emotional. It it was it was technical. You know? And but but but still kept me really curious about about how it was done and and just the the the the the artisans behind it that that could create those effects.
Speaker: 2
01:51:08
How long were you over there for?
Speaker: 1
01:51:10
Vatsal of eight months. Wow. Maybe nine. Yeah. And it was it was three years old? Yeah. It was three at first and then maybe four at first, and then we went back. And then dad has a heart attack, and then we went back and stayed for, like, another four four months. Yeah. So, yeah, ai was and and people say, so, you know, growing up on sets, you must have, like, dreamed about being an actor. I’m like, yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:51:36
Until I got to the set that almost killed my dad. You know? That’s not a job. You’re just gonna, like, wrap your arms around and say, when can I start? You know? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:51:46
But it also, it it it just the scope of the filmmaking was really ai, and and, you know, I Ai didn’t really understand it as a 10 or 11 year old. But I knew I I I knew there was something about it that that that that required a a much, you know, closer look. And and I had a very keen interest in in just, you know, what it what it what what what what would it take to to, like, build this the, you know, this reality, this fake reality.
Speaker: 1
01:52:22
Oh, but wait. The subject is based in reality, but everything else around it is fake.
Speaker: 2
01:52:29
So That’s a very strange experience for a ten year old
Speaker: 1
01:52:32
It is. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:52:33
On such a grand scale Exactly. When it becomes what Apocalypse Now became.
Speaker: 1
01:52:38
Right.
Speaker: 2
01:52:38
Because it was ai a culturally defining moment. Yeah. I mean, it would and it it’s a movie that it kind of eclipses all other war movies.
Speaker: 1
01:52:50
It does.
Speaker: 2
01:52:50
It really does.
Speaker: 1
01:52:51
It does. Yeah. I don’t I don’t think there’s been a film like it, before or since. I think,
Speaker: 2
01:52:59
No. It’s a true masterpiece.
Speaker: 1
01:53:01
It really is. Yeah. And and and there’s no computers. There’s nothing generated. It’s all had to be there on the day. And when you watch that, the the, you know, when when when when Kilgore takes the beachhead, that chopper assault, I mean, when you look at the just what they had what they committed to Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:53:22
To bring that to the screen is just it’s impossible. And then you you you see some of the documentary stuff about he was ai, those were on loan from the Philippine arya. And then, like, midday, they had to go fight the rebels somewhere else, and they told Francis, we gotta leave now with the choppers.
Speaker: 1
01:53:39
And he’s like, I have 18 cameras set up. The whole the river is filled with bombs. Where are you going? We’ll see you tomorrow. Wow. Stuff like that.
Speaker: 2
01:53:48
Yeah. Wow.
Speaker: 1
01:53:50
Pretty wild.
Speaker: 2
01:53:52
Yeah. But that must have, like for you, like, to eventually become an actor in Platoon, that had to be kind of surreal.
Speaker: 1
01:54:01
How does that happen? Right. How does that happen?
Speaker: 2
01:54:04
How does that happen eleven years later?
Speaker: 1
01:54:05
Yeah. Yeah. Or or ten. Yeah. Yeah. Because I did I did Platoon at 20. Right. Yeah. So how do I go back to the same country
Speaker: 2
01:54:14
10 later.
Speaker: 1
01:54:15
Just ten years later with the same subject. Right? Right. Narrate the fucking thing, and then then it it it it’s elevated to be on par with the one Yeah. Vatsal that how does that
Speaker: 2
01:54:31
only films that gets mentioned in the same breath is Ai Now when
Speaker: 1
01:54:35
it comes
Speaker: 2
01:54:35
to war films.
Speaker: 1
01:54:36
Yeah. Yeah. I’m a much bigger fan of Apocalypse than Platoon, and that is primarily about just the the scope and the complication and and just what the, you know, difficulty factor. Yeah. Difficulty factor. It took forever. It took forever. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:54:57
How many years did it take? It was, like, eight or nine years. Right?
Speaker: 1
01:55:02
It I I don’t know when, Francis conceived it. It came out in ’79. I think it did it come out in August ’79?
Speaker: 2
01:55:14
How many let’s just Google how many years it
Speaker: 1
01:55:16
August.
Speaker: 2
01:55:17
How many years did it take to make Apocalypse Now? Because I think it went way over budget.
Speaker: 1
01:55:22
Oh, it did? Oh, yeah. And by today’s standards, that’s ai, you know, that’s ai a Fox Searchlight budget.
Speaker: 2
01:55:30
Right. You know? And Laurence Fishburne was like, what? How old was he? He
Speaker: 1
01:55:34
started the film at 14. But I wonder
Speaker: 4
01:55:37
if he started March ’76.
Speaker: 2
01:55:41
And it came out in ’79?
Speaker: 4
01:55:43
Originally due to be released, on Coppola’s 30 birthday of April. So it took two extra years. Wow.
Speaker: 1
01:55:51
And imagine So when
Speaker: 2
01:55:52
was when did the the project start?
Speaker: 4
01:55:55
I mean, the varying times of discussions. Casting started February is when Steve McQueen dropped out. So the So
Speaker: 2
01:56:03
it’s not as many years sai I thought it was.
Speaker: 1
01:56:04
They shot with Harvey Keitel for a few weeks as Willard.
Speaker: 2
01:56:10
Did you know that? No.
Speaker: 1
01:56:11
Yeah. Yeah. And, then Francis it’s just ai he he’d made the wrong choice. Ai was doing it, you know, whatever he could, but Francis just sai it differently and had met dad during the Godfather auditions and said, let me meet with Marty.
Speaker: 2
01:56:30
Wow.
Speaker: 1
01:56:31
You can tell people, that don’t really know my dad that well call him Marty. I run into people on the street, and they’re like, hey. Give give Marty my best. And I’m like, who the fuck is Marty? People call him Martin. No. They know him better. You know?
Speaker: 2
01:56:49
Well, people that pretend to know someone always like to throw a y on the end of it. Makes it look
Speaker: 1
01:56:53
just tight. Interesting.
Speaker: 2
01:56:54
You know?
Speaker: 1
01:56:55
Yeah. So I would be like, Chuckie.
Speaker: 2
01:56:59
You you’re still Charlie.
Speaker: 1
01:57:00
Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
01:57:01
But I would be like Joey.
Speaker: 1
01:57:02
Joey? My god. I could never think of you as a Joey. Yeah. No. But but imagine this with Apocalypse, that, so I spend that much time. There’s all that shit that happened. I even brought home, like, props and things, you know, and severed hands and Ifigau jewelry and all this cool shit. Right?
Speaker: 1
01:57:18
And all these great stories, and then didn’t have anything tangible to back any of it. I mean, mom took a lot of photos, but, like, nobody could go to the theater
Speaker: 2
01:57:27
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:57:27
And then sai, oh, yeah. Charlie talked about that. Oh, yeah. He ai he was there that day.
Speaker: 2
01:57:32
Right. Then
Speaker: 1
01:57:32
we had to wait. And when you’re that age, you know, waiting two or three is like waiting a decade. Right? Mhmm. So that was that was kind of a trip. But when I saw it at the Ceramic Dom in 70 millimeter, you know, and it’s like, man, when those choppers when you hear them, when you hear just they’re they’re they’re they’re all around you, they’re they’re they’re a film will never open like that again and have that kind of an impact.
Speaker: 1
01:58:00
Did I mean, were did you see it at the Dome when you first saw it?
Speaker: 2
01:58:04
No. No. I don’t remember where I first saw it. First saw it, I think, on a regular TV at home.
Speaker: 1
01:58:09
Oh, shit. Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:58:10
You know, because I was too little to watch it in ’79. Is that what it was? Yeah. Maybe I saw it when it came out on HBO or something like that for the first time. When I really got into it was when I got a home theater, and I got surround sound, and I got Apocalypse Redo. The Apocalypse Now Redo, the the, like, the new newly mastered one.
Speaker: 2
01:58:33
Got
Speaker: 1
01:58:33
it. Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:58:34
It’s fucking sensational. So you
Speaker: 1
01:58:36
have you finally had that experience. Yeah. God. It’s
Speaker: 2
01:58:39
so good. I was like, this movie is wild. It’s so well done, and it’s just so epic. Like, for you to have been there live while they’re putting that together and then to see it all piece together and I mean, that had to be an insane experience.
Speaker: 1
01:58:57
Well and and and a lot of it was a surprise seeing it on the screen because ai I talk about in the book, not so much in the doc, it was hard to get close to the action on Apocalypse because the way the sets were constructed, because of the way, you know, Francis had everything lit. It was super claustrophobic, like, in, you know, Curtis’ Temple And Compound and places like that. And and, it was also fucking dangerous to be on that set. Right.
Speaker: 1
01:59:22
You know what I’m saying? Snakes and shit and Yeah. Ai just, like, a lot of weird people. You know what I mean? And so, yeah, Francis was just ai, come one, come all. You know? Wow. But, but yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:59:37
So then it’s like I wasn’t there for any any of the chopper assault. I I was I could see Hopper at a distance in that outfit with those cameras walking with dad. I couldn’t hear what he was saying. So to then see that scene where, you know, dad first steps off the boat at the compound and hoppers an incredible monologue. Yeah. You know? You got the cigarettes.
Speaker: 1
01:59:58
That’s what I’ve been dreaming about. And it’s just ai so to have that that kind of that that to have been there that long and still be a completely fresh cinematic experience was a trip.
Speaker: 2
02:00:12
Did you ever get imposter syndrome, like, when you were doing platoon? Did you ever meh, like, how the fuck am I here? Because it’s so quick between you being 10
Speaker: 1
02:00:23
Right.
Speaker: 2
02:00:23
Being in the jungle while they’re filming Apocalypse Now to you starring in Platoon. Had you settled into that, or were you ever, like, how the fuck do I deserve this? One of the things that Jon Cryer says in the meh, The New York Right.
Speaker: 1
02:00:37
Right. Right. It’s it’s He he ai be around his own. It’s very insightful.
Speaker: 2
02:00:41
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:00:41
It’s very insightful.
Speaker: 2
02:00:42
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:00:43
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:00:43
He said that you probably feel like you don’t deserve all this, so you Sure. Fuck it all up.
Speaker: 1
02:00:48
Sure. He’s not wrong. He’s not wrong. But and then I I had a comment, some interview the other day, and I said, well, what the fuck, John? You kinda, like, laid that on me, like, you know, a couple decades sooner, man. Great advice. However A little late. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:01:11
But you
Speaker: 2
02:01:11
can’t tell anybody that. They have to kinda figure it out.
Speaker: 1
02:01:13
They do. But the thing about Platoon and when it happened, the good news is that I had done enough film work, you know, not not ai super memorable films except maybe, parts of Red Ai, I think are pretty meh, just, you know, what the film kind of Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
02:01:30
Was, you
Speaker: 1
02:01:31
know, what it stood for, what it was about. I think parts of Bueller were ai meh. Versus Bueller. Right? Sure. But, but yeah. So so it was sai was just sort of getting, more comfortable in front of a camera, more comfortable sort of, you know, being able to think on film and actually, you know, breathe on film.
Speaker: 2
02:01:54
Mhmm. I
Speaker: 1
02:01:54
know that sounds kinda like actor schmacktery, but it’s actually a thing. Because you’re talking about controlling your breath in every other area of life. Sure. Right? And it’s the same is true as an actor.
Speaker: 2
02:02:07
Yeah. For sure.
Speaker: 1
02:02:08
Even doing the show, even doing two and a half for that first scene, I was I was usually off I was usually, like, about to make an entrance from somewhere, and I’d be back there and chain smoking. I’m, you know, Marlboro Reds and just trying to figure out the first scene. But then when you’d hear the you’d hear the you’d hear the stage go ai, right, somebody else, you know, speak, sound, arya.
Speaker: 1
02:02:28
And then if I could get that last breath to go to the bottom, I knew this first take was gonna be awesome. When the breath stopped about, like, at the sternum, I was fucked.
Speaker: 2
02:02:43
Shallow breath.
Speaker: 1
02:02:44
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:02:44
Yeah. Because then
Speaker: 1
02:02:45
you can’t then you’re and then the thing, and then yeah. And then that first take is just a pancake.
Speaker: 2
02:02:49
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:02:49
Which sucks because that’s the first time the audience is gonna see it. Right. We kinda want that one to be you know, if there’s a if there’s a cute girl in the crowd, that’s the one you want her watching.
Speaker: 2
02:02:59
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:03:00
Not the second one where she’s already heard the fucking jokes ai now you’re just doing whatever. You know?
Speaker: 2
02:03:04
Right. Now you’re like, oh, this show sucks.
Speaker: 1
02:03:06
Exactly.
Speaker: 2
02:03:08
Yeah. Yeah. The live performance thing is weird because they don’t really do it anymore. I mean, I don’t think there’s very many shows that still do that kind of a sitcom in front of a live audience with multiple cameras.
Speaker: 1
02:03:17
There’s very few. I, I think Tim Allen show still does.
Speaker: 2
02:03:21
What what is that on? Is that on Fox?
Speaker: 1
02:03:24
I think it’s ABC. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:03:28
So he still does a traditional
Speaker: 1
02:03:30
Yeah. Ai
Speaker: 2
02:03:31
camera Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:03:31
Because a Ai Yeah. A guy worked with, a friend of mine, ai on that writing staff.
Speaker: 2
02:03:35
God, they used to be all over the television.
Speaker: 1
02:03:36
I know. There
Speaker: 2
02:03:37
used to be tons of them.
Speaker: 1
02:03:39
Oh, I think Chuck’s new show on Netflix, It’s called, Leanne Lorraine? Shit.
Speaker: 4
02:03:50
Leanne?
Speaker: 1
02:03:50
Leanne. Yeah. I think that that’s a live audience. You know?
Speaker: 2
02:03:55
Okay. So they’re still doing some of a
Speaker: 1
02:03:57
lot more.
Speaker: 2
02:03:58
Yeah. They’re fun. It’s fun when when it works. You know? Yeah. It’s ai it’s it’s a missing genre in today’s culture.
Speaker: 1
02:04:05
You’re right. You should
Speaker: 2
02:04:06
be most of what was on late at night Exactly. At ai. When you’re right. When you got done having dinner, you sai down and watch Friends, or you would sit down and watch Ai, or Two and a Half Meh, or,
Speaker: 1
02:04:17
you know comfort view. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
Speaker: 2
02:04:21
Yeah. We, my family binge watched Big Bang Theory. I never watched it when it was on the air. We binge watched it.
Speaker: 1
02:04:27
Seriously? It’s
Speaker: 2
02:04:28
a good fucking show.
Speaker: 1
02:04:29
Yeah. They were It’s a funny show.
Speaker: 2
02:04:30
I dismissed it. I was like, ah, it’s a corny sitcom. Bullshit. It’s a good show.
Speaker: 1
02:04:35
Right on.
Speaker: 2
02:04:36
Solid show.
Speaker: 1
02:04:36
Right on. Yeah. That kid kid that that young man Yeah. Jim, right, had some of the most complicated dialogue that anybody’s ever been saddled with ever.
Speaker: 2
02:04:47
Yeah. He’s the first autistic star of an action show or of a sitcom.
Speaker: 1
02:04:51
There you go.
Speaker: 2
02:04:51
Yeah. Yeah. Where where you’re kind of celebrating his, emotional disconnection.
Speaker: 1
02:04:56
Yeah. But delivering it like like Rain Meh, you know, and just with laser laser precision. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:05:03
It’s a really well written show. It’s very funny. That guy Chuck Lorre’s had how many fucking hits? That guy’s had a ton of hits.
Speaker: 1
02:05:12
Yeah. Maybe more than anybody. Probably.
Speaker: 2
02:05:14
The sitcom world? Probably.
Speaker: 1
02:05:15
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They Glad you
Speaker: 2
02:05:19
guys are friends again.
Speaker: 1
02:05:20
Yeah. So am I. So am I. No. That that sucked having that out there.
Speaker: 2
02:05:25
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:05:26
You know? You know, I did finally actually remember that fucking thing, and I’m not gonna I’m not gonna Oh,
Speaker: 2
02:05:31
okay.
Speaker: 1
02:05:31
What is that? It’s the other component to that freaking tour, to that meltdown, to that thing. There was a moment when I was only in rehab for, like, I don’t know, three weeks or a month. It wasn’t ai one of those extended stays. It was just like a Right. You know, just like a
Speaker: 2
02:05:47
Quick little
Speaker: 1
02:05:47
A quick little Little ai. Yeah. Like a spin ai, whatever they call it. And I got the call. We wanna we wanna renegotiate the ai contract for season eight and ai. You know? And I I was on the phone. I said, I I don’t I don’t think saloni they’re like, what? You don’t think you’re gonna get paid? I’m like, no.
Speaker: 1
02:06:04
I don’t I don’t think I don’t think I don’t think we should do it. I’m not I I think seven is ai, you know, Mantle War seven, some other cool sevens. You know? And Sai I don’t think I think seven is, like, plenty. I think we’ve I think we’ve told all the stories that we can mine from that from that Malibu house on the beach with those people. And they’re ai, no.
Speaker: 1
02:06:25
No. You don’t understand, man. This is when ai all like, this is when it turns into, like, a legacy play for your fucking kids and their kids and that. Oh. And then the part they always leave out is in in our cut. Yeah. And our fucking cut.
Speaker: 2
02:06:35
Yeah. That’s the big part.
Speaker: 1
02:06:36
Yeah. And I
Speaker: 2
02:06:37
on the phone.
Speaker: 1
02:06:38
Yeah. And I sat on the phone. And Mark and I have talked about that. I talked to me on Mark Berg, my manager. Sana I sai, Mark, if I go back there, man, it’s gonna go really fucking bad. I just know it. He’s like, well, you’re you’re you’re projecting that. I said, I’m not projecting shit, man. I’m just I’m just smart enough to know how I feel about it now.
Speaker: 1
02:06:59
Ai got a little bit of clarity in this month. I’m in the thing. I said if I if I go back there, Ai just I got a I got a bad feeling, Mark.
Speaker: 2
02:07:08
Why going back to work would send you off the rails?
Speaker: 1
02:07:12
Just that I had run up against the thing that I I had lost passion for the show. I had lost passion for the process.
Speaker: 2
02:07:18
Okay. So that if you went and just did it just for the money, you would find some ways to stimulate yourself.
Speaker: 1
02:07:24
Exactly. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:07:25
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:07:25
Yeah. Then then I would have to do something, to enhance.
Speaker: 2
02:07:30
I said that about a lot of guys that got caught on shows that sucked. I knew a lot of guys who got caught on shows where they were getting paid, but they did not like the shah. And it was a, like, a bad sitcom. Right. And those guys all went crazy. Those guys all started doing a lot of drugs or they started spending too much money or something. They did something to distract themselves Right.
Speaker: 2
02:07:54
Because they did not like what they were doing, and they they didn’t feel satisfied.
Speaker: 1
02:07:58
Right.
Speaker: 2
02:07:59
Yeah. But they were getting so much money. Right. They said, like, what am I gonna do? I’m getting a $100,000 a week. I’m ai, oh, god.
Speaker: 1
02:08:05
Yeah. What do you mean
Speaker: 2
02:08:05
to do? You can’t ai it.
Speaker: 1
02:08:06
Sai was making 54,000 an hour. That’s pretaxes. So was I And
Speaker: 2
02:08:13
you said no to season eight and ai. I’d be like, do I have to wear a dress? Right? Well, I’ll I’ll work Like, what do I have to do?
Speaker: 1
02:08:20
Let’s go. Dangerfield’s ram at that point.
Speaker: 2
02:08:22
Let’s go.
Speaker: 1
02:08:23
No. But, no. That that was after I I got to ai of crowbarred into it. You know? Why not crowbarred? I ai to ultimately say yes. I gotta own that. You know? Yeah. But, it was just I was just the wrong guy in that moment, in that pocket of time to, like, give that much fucking money to, man. Right. You know?
Speaker: 1
02:08:44
Right.
Speaker: 2
02:08:45
Right. Right.
Speaker: 1
02:08:45
And, like, I’d buy a bunch of cars and then invite a bunch of girls over and then just say speak one.
Speaker: 2
02:08:51
And then you did that other thing where you had that other show after that that you got paid, like, a ton of money in advance for. Right?
Speaker: 1
02:09:00
You’re talking about Anger Management?
Speaker: 2
02:09:01
Yes.
Speaker: 1
02:09:03
No. Supposed to get a it was it was it was called a ten ninety.
Speaker: 2
02:09:08
Yeah. It was, like, how they how they meh.
Speaker: 1
02:09:11
How they suck you into that is to say, look. You’re not gonna get a ton on the on on the front side, but you’re gonna be, you you know, you’re gonna own a third of the shah. We ai, like, 40 to 37, 38% of the show in perpetuity. So we’re gonna do a 100 episodes, and it’s the, South Park, model.
Speaker: 1
02:09:29
That was the first ten ninety that really just blew it up, and everybody got fucking rich. So you do these 10 episodes. You do a 10 episode pilot. And then if you hit if if the average number of those 10 episodes comes in at, like, I don’t know, at, like, a, like, a, above a four or, like, a five one or something that is ai a share.
Speaker: 1
02:09:51
Right?
Speaker: 2
02:09:51
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:09:52
Then it activates the next 90. And so then you’re doing those 90 to have a a sellable, of of of syndication package that will just go all over the world and and, you know, do what what syndicated sitcoms do. And so you’ve done it. You you know? And, you you know, when you say not a lot on on the front side, you’re still, you know, still getting a buck 50 an app. You know?
Speaker: 1
02:10:18
200 and that’s pretty good money. Right? But it’s not but you kinda you kinda eat it on that side knowing that it’s an investment for Right. The other thing to to pay gangbusters.
Speaker: 2
02:10:29
So you did you guys you did the 10 episodes, and then you got to do all of them.
Speaker: 1
02:10:33
Yes.
Speaker: 2
02:10:34
So you sana do in a 100?
Speaker: 1
02:10:36
Yes.
Speaker: 2
02:10:36
But you did them in a shorter pound a short period of time. Right?
Speaker: 1
02:10:38
Two and a half years. That’s crazy. I know. Yeah. I was Ai was not ready to go back to work. Yeah. And that’s the thing I talk about in the book. The only reason I did was I wanted to show those guys across town that I was terrible again.
Speaker: 2
02:10:50
You know? Right. Right. Right.
Speaker: 1
02:10:52
And that is not that is not any way to any mindset to, like, lead the troops.
Speaker: 2
02:10:55
You know? That was
Speaker: 1
02:10:58
and it you know, again, it started pretty cool. I did the 10. I was great. You know? Doing some pretty good work, and the shows were smart and funny. And and then we got into that 90, and it was about it was about 20. No. What am I saying? It’s ai, like, like, nine or 11 into it.
Speaker: 1
02:11:18
I arya feeling exactly the same shit that I felt
Speaker: 2
02:11:24
On two and a half hours.
Speaker: 1
02:11:25
Going past that point. I knew my enthusiasm and passion had had a had an expiration date.
Speaker: 2
02:11:31
Oh, you couldn’t manufacture it?
Speaker: 1
02:11:34
I I tried, but I couldn’t I didn’t, I didn’t like the show enough.
Speaker: 2
02:11:39
You
Speaker: 1
02:11:39
know? I love the people I was working with, you know, from the from the ai, the crew, the actors. They were terrific.
Speaker: 2
02:11:44
You didn’t like the final product?
Speaker: 1
02:11:45
I didn’t yeah. And I didn’t I stopped caring. Mhmm. But I still, you know, had enough dough to keep the lifestyle and all that other fun shit going on and just stayed way too fucking high to really engage in this thing. I mean, I was doing this thing, Joe, where I would I was partying, you know, hitting the fucking pipe, either girls or porn or both or who you know, whoever showed up.
Speaker: 1
02:12:12
Yeah. Fucking yeah. Hey. Come on in. Come on in. There’s plenty to go around. And then, there’s this thing.
Speaker: 1
02:12:20
I think I I felt like I was time traveling from, like, 1AM to, like, seven. It felt like eleven Ai don’t know, fifteen minutes. Whereas, you know, nine to midnight felt normal. Wow. We plan on time to do everything.
Speaker: 1
02:12:35
And then, like, the the the hours I really needed to, like, you know, settle in and enjoy, those just vanished.
Speaker: 2
02:12:41
And then you’re back to work?
Speaker: 1
02:12:42
No. I got someone banging on my fucking door. Dude, you’re late. What the fuck? And I’m still fucking sideways.
Speaker: 2
02:12:48
Wow.
Speaker: 1
02:12:49
So Ai pop a couple shah or, like, half a Xanax or something, and I said, oh, I just need And I would literally do this thing. It was a fifteen minute, twenty minute nap where I would just hit the pillow. Ai try to meditate with a body just vibrating from crack all ai, trying to meditate. At that point, I’m trying to fucking time travel. I’m trying to levitate. Right?
Speaker: 1
02:13:11
And but I could feel, okay, I’ve I’ve generated some calmness. Ai and then I would hit the shower, and I would I’d be in the shower, and I’d say, okay. I only have to navigate from this shower to the next shower, and that’s about eleven, maybe twelve hours. It was shower to shower.
Speaker: 1
02:13:30
Remember that commercial, like, in the seventies? Wasn’t there a fucking, like, a deodorant or
Speaker: 2
02:13:35
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:13:35
Something shower to shower. Shower to shower.
Speaker: 2
02:13:37
Yeah. Like, it lasted from one shower
Speaker: 1
02:13:39
to the next. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:13:40
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:13:40
So I’m trying to last from one shower to the next, man. No shit. And then but I’d get to work and then have that midday drop off. And I wasn’t hitting the pipe at work, but I needed to keep some some fuel in the engine. So I’d be you know, I start drinking. And then, man, people look at sitcoms ai, oh, they’re out there having a fun time. Man, it is super fucking complicated. Well, you’ve done them. Yeah. Right?
Speaker: 1
02:14:05
It’s like an it’s like a dance, isn’t it?
Speaker: 2
02:14:07
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:14:08
It’s like a, it’s like a choreographed thing. And so it is hard enough to do and to do well completely focused and and and with all your shit intact. Right? You start getting over here and trying to be that specific just with marks, with jokes, with timing, with other people.
Speaker: 1
02:14:29
And then a lot of my energy is going to ai to disguise, like, the condition I’m really in, you know, and trying to make excuses.
Speaker: 2
02:14:39
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:14:39
Oh, I had a med mix up today. Med med mix up. I’m on two pills or the same fucking thing at the same time every day. There’s no med mix up. You know? Right. It’s like, what are we doing? And so, yeah, and then that turns into that thing where you just then they start getting ai, and I would just be like, oh, just sorry for the overtime.
Speaker: 1
02:15:00
I’ll just pay for it. And, you know, they should they should have not taken the money. They should have said we’re shutting down. You need to fucking go go go get well or go get just a little better than what you’re showing up as. And so that show kind of never really had a chance to be anything really anything speak, you know, because I didn’t I didn’t I didn’t really care about it.
Speaker: 1
02:15:23
And the thing that sucks about that, looking back, it’s ai, think about all the energy and the hard work that all those other people put into it and committed to it because I said yes. Right. You know?
Speaker: 2
02:15:36
And there’s also there’s a bunch of people that were rooting for you because they they saw what happened with Two and a Half Meh. It was big Right. Public disaster. You leave. Is his career ruined? Oh, no. Look. He’s got another show. Oh, Charlie’s back.
Speaker: 1
02:15:50
But did anybody even sai, okay. So hold on. What did he do between that that that you know, after that last swan dive into the volcano that we all watched, and then he’s on the he’s back he’s on another shah. Like, what did he do between then and there?
Speaker: 2
02:16:07
Well, the narrative on you was, as an outsider, was that you’re one of the rare guys who could party like that, but still pull it off and have a career.
Speaker: 1
02:16:16
Right.
Speaker: 2
02:16:17
And I think your ex wife had said that, that she never worried about you. You would always land on your feet. Because you were very talented. And you were also very loved, you know.
Speaker: 1
02:16:27
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker: 2
02:16:28
Which is one of the reasons why people embraced you when you were talking about how much crack you were doing. You know, when you were saying all that, people there was they weren’t mad at you. They’re like, he’s fucking partying, you know. It was it was a very odd time where so many people who don’t admit that they party, you know, because of their job or because of whatever.
Speaker: 1
02:16:48
Right. Ai
Speaker: 2
02:16:48
know, they try to like keep it hot, you know, hidden under under wraps.
Speaker: 1
02:16:52
Right.
Speaker: 2
02:16:52
And you were doing a live interview with this lady, and you’re you’re talking to her about smoking rocks, and and she was flabbergasted, like you could tell. Yeah. She did not expect that ai of candor.
Speaker: 1
02:17:06
Right.
Speaker: 2
02:17:06
With discussion of, illicit drugs.
Speaker: 1
02:17:09
Right.
Speaker: 2
02:17:09
It was just like nobody ever done that before.
Speaker: 1
02:17:12
Well, she asked. I mean Right.
Speaker: 2
02:17:14
But nobody ever embraced it Right. The way you did. Right. Right? Everybody else is like, well, you know, it’s a terrible time in my life. I was I got so low I was doing crack cocaine.
Speaker: 1
02:17:24
Right. Right. Right. It comes from a place of shame.
Speaker: 2
02:17:26
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you didn’t have any ai.
Speaker: 1
02:17:28
It didn’t. No. Because I’d watched something, like, a couple days before I sat down with Andrea Canning, and it was this old interview with Charlie Gibson on on, some special they did for ABC. Right? I don’t even think it wasn’t a GMA piece. It was ai a more in-depth Mhmm. One of those ai they do. You know?
Speaker: 1
02:17:45
And it was me coming out of rehab. And I I remember watching myself and just being such a I was like, that guy’s a fucking sissy, man. That guy’s a fucking pussy. What’s wrong with him? Look at him. All that shah, all that embarrassment. Like, no. No. No. We’re not doing that anymore.
Speaker: 1
02:17:59
So that that got locked in. Oh. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:18:01
Because I
Speaker: 1
02:18:02
I remember how I I’ve just I remember how I felt watching me doing it their way.
Speaker: 2
02:18:07
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:18:07
I was like, no. No. No. And then, you know, I got all I got the brain full of, you know, fucking nuclear crazy cream that I’m on fucking yeah. Just covering myself in. And, and that’s with two k’s. That’s ai the donuts. Right? Right. And yeah, man. And and and you know where the material came ram. Right?
Speaker: 1
02:18:30
The those slogans and all that stuff? No. Was Brian Wilson.
Speaker: 2
02:18:34
From the Beach Boys?
Speaker: 1
02:18:35
No. The Brian Wilson pitcher for the Ai. The guy they called the beard. Oh. Yeah. I was on the phone with him, like, the day a couple days before that because Tony and I Tony Todd and I were watching, baseball ai. And I was like, wow. This guy looks this guy’s a fucking trip. Tony, get him on the phone. Right? The next day, I’m on the phone with him.
Speaker: 1
02:18:53
I think he was just trying to give me a pep talk. He was like, hey, man. Just know that guys like us, you know, we’re not we’re not we’re not we’re not like everybody else. You know, we’re we’re we’re we’re different, man. We got we got, you know, we got tiger blood running through our veins. We got fucking Adonis DNA.
Speaker: 1
02:19:07
We got, you you you you know, we’re we’re we we we don’t know how to lose, man, because we’re always fucking winning. Right? So I hear all this. And he’s probably thinking, cool, man. I just kind of inspired him maybe just to get to the next moment. You know? That stuff went in there, meh.
Speaker: 1
02:19:22
And it stayed on a fucking loop. And I sat down, and the interview doesn’t start like that, which is a trip. I’m trying to keep it together. I’m trying to give her the stuff she needs to, like, maybe I don’t even know. What was the thrust of that story?
Speaker: 1
02:19:38
Being fired or some shit or
Speaker: 2
02:19:40
I don’t remember.
Speaker: 1
02:19:41
So but there’s a moment that’s not on film. And Andrea can’t deny this. She makes a crack about these two girlfriends that I’m living with. Right? And and expects me to just, like, like, let it just just, you know, brush it off Uh-huh. And then answer her next question. And I said, hold on a second. I said, that was really rude. She’s like, which part? I’m like, what what you just how you just addressed them?
Speaker: 1
02:20:11
You owe them an apology. And she was like, okay. Ai paraphrasing some of this. Right? But then this is kinda this is the tone of it.
Speaker: 1
02:20:20
And so she How did she address them? They’re they’re it it I I felt that they were dismissed as just, like, porn porn checks. You know? Mhmm. Because one was a porn check. The other was not. It’s called Natty.
Speaker: 1
02:20:36
So she kinda got rolled into that
Speaker: 2
02:20:38
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:20:40
Unfairly. You know? And so so then they you know, she Andrea’s like, oh my god. Okay. You know, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean anything by that. You know? But I’m over here, you know, with the thing, and and I’m not I’m not letting it go. I I I asked you to apologize. We should have been past it. Now I’m stewing. Oh. Right? Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:21:02
And sai you’re wrapped up now.
Speaker: 1
02:21:04
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s when it turned into and then I start hearing Bryden stuff, and I’m like, I don’t know, man. I have fucking tire bryden.
Speaker: 2
02:21:13
And and then it all just and then it it got away from me, and I and I couldn’t pull it back.
Speaker: 1
02:21:19
Wow. I couldn’t pull it back. And then everybody’s like, okay. Well, that was different. I mean, it’s kind of fucking interesting and unique and whatever, man. Well, well, let’s just let’s meh let’s, you know, let’s just have a quiet night, and and and and and we’ll see how that plays out. You know?
Speaker: 1
02:21:34
And I wake up into a world of not not the world I said goodnight to six hours earlier. And they my friends are banging on the door. People are, you know, sending me, you know, videos and stuff. And he’s like, dude, the fucking the world’s on fire with your shit, man. I’m like, alright.
Speaker: 1
02:21:54
What does that mean? And there’s, like, there’s folk songs and rap songs. People, like, marching in the streets, and there’s already t shirts, and there’s this it’s just it has just gone. It exploded. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:22:07
And so it’s not like I could jump on my roof with a bullhorn sana say, alright, everybody. Okay. Let’s just, you know
Speaker: 2
02:22:14
You have seen fighters were saying they had tiger blood. They were joking around about it.
Speaker: 1
02:22:18
See? Yeah. I mean, it got it got It got away from you. It penetrated me. Yeah. Yeah. It achieved penetration.
Speaker: 2
02:22:28
Well, then no one had ever done an interview like that before.
Speaker: 1
02:22:31
I didn’t I didn’t I yeah. I I I wasn’t thinking about that in the moment. I was just fucking pissed, and I wasn’t gonna be sissy Charles
Speaker: 2
02:22:42
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:22:43
From the nineties, you know. Right. It was ai this whole convergence of all these elements and all these emotions and all these feelings and and also the, you know, resentment I had in myself, you know, and just ai, alright. I’m just gonna pick some targets.
Speaker: 2
02:22:58
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:22:59
And and and and, you know, would have been nice had it been sort of, if Ai could’ve just sort of been herded, just kind of, you know, away from it. You know? Have you ever thought of
Speaker: 2
02:23:15
what your life would be like if you didn’t do that interview?
Speaker: 1
02:23:18
I I’ve started to. No. I’ve started I’ve started to try to walk into that village. Right? But as soon as I take a look around, none of it really makes sense because it it’s it did I I I can’t really imagine it. You know? What what do you think it would I mean, what would it it’s it’s hard to kinda even put those pieces together.
Speaker: 2
02:23:42
I wonder if you had ever would have gotten sober.
Speaker: 1
02:23:46
Interesting.
Speaker: 2
02:23:47
You meh
Speaker: 1
02:23:47
Ai mean today’s sober sober.
Speaker: 2
02:23:49
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:23:49
Today’s sober sober.
Speaker: 2
02:23:51
You you might have had to have that complete chaos, tailspin, free fall, crash Right. Publicly Right. To just eventually, like, gather your shit together and go, okay.
Speaker: 1
02:24:04
Right.
Speaker: 2
02:24:05
Alright. Time to learn and grow.
Speaker: 1
02:24:07
Right.
Speaker: 2
02:24:08
Obviously, that wasn’t smart. Let’s do it differently. Right. Let’s get it together and step by step, day by day, and look, here you arya. Almost nine years later.
Speaker: 1
02:24:18
Almost nine years later. Or eight years later. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:24:20
That’s, you you always wonder, like, maybe you have to have. That was your rock bottom moment, and it was public, you know. It’s like a the whole world got
Speaker: 1
02:24:30
to see it. It’s like a full cleanse.
Speaker: 2
02:24:32
Yeah. Wow. Just a purging of all of it. And, you know, and still you have to battle with the this reinforcement because now everybody is loving the fact that, you know, you’re winning and that, you know, you’re talking about how much crack you smoke and how crazy it is and you got all these hot girls and everybody’s like, he’s winning.
Speaker: 2
02:24:53
He’s winning. And so now there’s no incentive at all to get healthy.
Speaker: 1
02:24:57
Right.
Speaker: 2
02:24:58
Which is kinda nuts. And not only that, financially, you’re kind of it kind of helps you to be, like, a little off the rails. And so you’re kinda known for that, you know. Ai, and then you have this big tour, and everybody’s coming out to see you.
Speaker: 1
02:25:12
Right. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:25:12
You know, which was crazy for you to do. Like, the first one where you did it without comedians was just bananas.
Speaker: 1
02:25:19
Yeah. I went it was it was a complete train wreck. Yeah. It was a disaster.
Speaker: 2
02:25:24
But you guys pulled it together, and that was, like, kind of the story of, like, your career when things have fallen apart. People want you to pull it together. Right. So even though you had that disaster show and everybody knew it was a
Speaker: 1
02:25:36
disaster show In Detroit.
Speaker: 2
02:25:37
People were still coming out to see the other ones.
Speaker: 1
02:25:39
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. I, I had an, the, option, after the Detroit massacre, of flying, to Chicago or taking the bus, the tour bus. Right? And I said, I need I need those seven or eight hours on the bus. And they’re like, why? I said, because I’m gonna rewrite the entire show.
Speaker: 1
02:26:00
And I think, I think Natty was on that trip. I think maybe Rick. I know Shady was on. Anyway, and I just I just, there was a place you know, ram in the back, and I just kinda barricaded myself with a pad of paper and a pen and just went to town and just sort of started trying to reshape it.
Speaker: 1
02:26:17
And when I got to Chicago, they were expecting all this all the special effects we needed from shah, you know, all that garbage. I said, we traveled with none of it. I said, here’s the new show. They’re like, you sure about this? I’m like, just trust me.
Speaker: 1
02:26:30
And that and, unfortunately, that’s the night where it got applauded and kept the train on the tracks. Mhmm. Boy, Chicago. You know?
Speaker: 2
02:26:40
But
Speaker: 1
02:26:40
isn’t that weird to have the wherewithal, like, in the middle of all vatsal, at least still had enough enough something, enough of that thing to to to to just you know, maybe that’s just pride at that point.
Speaker: 2
02:26:52
Certainly, it was also that’s the impact of public humiliation. Like
Speaker: 1
02:26:57
Thank you.
Speaker: 2
02:26:58
Yeah. Enough. How about that? Ai to get this fucking that. Get this thing back on track.
Speaker: 1
02:27:03
Yeah. And it it was it was just it was the curtain comes up and there’s two chairs. And I have a moderator, and it’s just a conversation. Imagine that. Yeah. It didn’t reinvent anything.
Speaker: 2
02:27:15
No.
Speaker: 1
02:27:15
You know? So and I oh oh, I wrote a letter is what it was. Dear Chicago. And it’s ai this whole thing, you know, including them. And and yeah. So I got them. I kinda got them back on my side, and then we sat down.
Speaker: 2
02:27:30
Yeah. When people ai also you were figuring this tour thing out on the fly.
Speaker: 1
02:27:36
Yeah. Yeah. It it it it was essentially, it was 21 cities in, like, twenty four days with no act. That’s what it was, man.
Speaker: 2
02:27:48
So who do you I know you had Jeff Ross on
Speaker: 1
02:27:50
some Jeff Ross. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:27:52
Who’s great at that Yeah. Master at Off the Cut. Wow.
Speaker: 1
02:27:55
He showed up and really
Speaker: 2
02:27:56
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just put he put Perfect guy for that.
Speaker: 1
02:27:59
Put a shape on it.
Speaker: 2
02:28:00
Yes. And then you had Russell on some of them too. Right? Yes. Who’s also a master at off the cuff.
Speaker: 1
02:28:05
Yes. And he and he, he was so relieved that that the two chairs had shown up because that’s when he joined us in Canada. Yeah. No. He was terrific.
Speaker: 2
02:28:17
Yeah. Russell’s awesome.
Speaker: 1
02:28:18
Yeah. You know, the first night sitting with him, some dude like, what’s, like, the Canadian version of, like, a a quarter? Sai ai their dollar? A loony. Okay. But that’s a dollar?
Speaker: 2
02:28:30
I think so.
Speaker: 1
02:28:30
Okay. Is that the heavy one?
Speaker: 2
02:28:32
Yeah. Someone threw it at him?
Speaker: 1
02:28:34
No. At me. Oh. Like, we’re in the chair for maybe five minutes, and I get from the balcony, I get hit with one right here. Oh. And it just it was ai getting punched by, like, someone with a skinny metal hand. You know? And, and I just had to Ai had to kinda pause into vatsal, and and they they they got the guy thrown out. But I just thought, wow.
Speaker: 1
02:28:58
I could’ve lost an eye. Yeah. Russell could’ve lost an eye. And it was just ai, wow. Alright.
Speaker: 2
02:29:04
Also, pretty good
Speaker: 1
02:29:05
shot. Really good shot.
Speaker: 2
02:29:07
Guy throws a loony from the balcony and hits it in the head. That’s
Speaker: 1
02:29:09
Yeah. That’s
Speaker: 2
02:29:10
That’s impressive.
Speaker: 1
02:29:11
It is.
Speaker: 2
02:29:11
Because that’s not an aerodynamic thing.
Speaker: 1
02:29:13
It’s not. You know? No. Ai are you throwing that? You have to ai factor in Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:29:17
It’s a lot of flipping in the air.
Speaker: 1
02:29:19
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s kinda like a boomerang
Speaker: 2
02:29:21
or something. It’s a Frisbee. It’s a Frisbee. Little tiny Frisbee.
Speaker: 1
02:29:24
Yeah. Sai, anyway, so that’s there were just moments like that that that Ai, I guess, just little cosmic reminders that not everybody was on my side. Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
02:29:33
Yeah. Yeah. Which is important too.
Speaker: 1
02:29:37
Hey. Can I hit the bathroom ram
Speaker: 2
02:29:39
quick? Yeah? We sana actually wrap it up. We’re getting close.
Speaker: 1
02:29:41
Okay. You
Speaker: 2
02:29:42
wanna wrap it up?
Speaker: 1
02:29:44
Can we just touch on a couple things before we do? Absolutely.
Speaker: 2
02:29:46
Is there a state speak, and we’ll come back. Okay. Cool. Should we bring this up? I guess we have to. Sai this just happened. We just found out that Charlie Kirk got shot.
Speaker: 1
02:29:57
It’s fucking awful.
Speaker: 2
02:29:59
And is he dead?
Speaker: 4
02:30:01
No. I don’t think so.
Speaker: 1
02:30:03
That’s what was just One
Speaker: 2
02:30:04
of the guys out there just said
Speaker: 1
02:30:05
Oh, confirmed. It’s dead. In the lobby was just
Speaker: 4
02:30:08
I was looking I’ve been looking. I haven’t seen anything that said confirmed. Woah.
Speaker: 1
02:30:17
Murder for having a different opinion from somebody else. Yeah. Different ideology from somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. Beliefs that didn’t align.
Speaker: 4
02:30:28
Meh. I’m sorry.
Speaker: 1
02:30:30
Yep. Rest in peace. Fuck. News. Jesus. 27 years old, maybe? 30?
Speaker: 2
02:30:37
Even have a a suspect?
Speaker: 4
02:30:40
I don’t know. Well, that’s why I don’t I don’t I’m literally trying to check it all on Twitter, and it’s all
Speaker: 1
02:30:46
Fuck. Fuck. Nobody deserves he doesn’t deserve that. Nobody deserves that.
Speaker: 2
02:30:52
So so were you saying that MSNBC had a crazy take on it? Mhmm. What was their take?
Speaker: 4
02:30:59
Matt, I I’m literally just reading Twitter, so I didn’t see the video. I just saw people talking about tweets of it. I’ll pull it up, though.
Speaker: 2
02:31:11
Fuck.
Speaker: 4
02:31:13
And even now, they could have taken it down.
Speaker: 2
02:31:17
It was a tweet or a video? I don’t
Speaker: 4
02:31:19
I’d so I don’t I don’t you know, doing the show while I’m trying to figure out
Speaker: 2
02:31:22
Right. No. I understand.
Speaker: 4
02:31:24
I think they were live on the air, and people clicked the what they were talking about. It’s not a tweet. It’s not on their Twitter account or anything.
Speaker: 2
02:31:31
So it’s someone’s hot take?
Speaker: 4
02:31:35
In the live in the moment.
Speaker: 2
02:31:37
Yeah. That’s a crazy take. Crazy take is that what was the take that they deserved to?
Speaker: 4
02:31:43
Ai I that’s why I didn’t sana pair it.
Speaker: 2
02:31:45
Right.
Speaker: 4
02:31:51
Dave Portnoy reposted this.
Speaker: 2
02:31:52
You found it? Alright. Here. Put it it’s only ten seconds.
Speaker: 1
02:31:55
Which a shooting like this happens?
Speaker: 2
02:31:57
You can put the headphones on. You can hear it.
Speaker: 0
02:31:59
Again, ai what you just emphasized. We don’t know any of the full details of this that we don’t know if this was the supporter shooting their gun off in celebration or sai. We have no ai, but
Speaker: 4
02:32:08
That’s what that’s what the crazy thing was.
Speaker: 2
02:32:10
Oh, that’s it. Yeah. That if it
Speaker: 4
02:32:12
was a supporter shooting their gun off in celebration.
Speaker: 2
02:32:15
What? Someone shot their gun off in celebration and killed him.
Speaker: 1
02:32:19
Yeah. You you shoot celebration guns in the air. Oh, god. Just,
Speaker: 2
02:32:24
What a crazy take. Like, it might not have been someone assassinating someone for the wrong opinion. Fuck.
Speaker: 1
02:32:33
Ai does something like that have to be spun?
Speaker: 2
02:32:36
Their ideology.
Speaker: 1
02:32:37
No. I know what I’m saying. It’s like I mean, they wanna try to
Speaker: 2
02:32:39
pin it on a Trump supporter with arya crazy Trump supporter with a gun Right. Going wacky. Of course. We don’t know if it was a supporter shooting off a gun in celebration because, you know, they do.
Speaker: 1
02:32:49
Right. Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
02:32:50
A lot of folks are just Of course. Constantly out there shooting off guns at large gatherings in celebration.
Speaker: 1
02:32:55
Yeah. Fourth of July, ai can’t leave your house.
Speaker: 2
02:32:57
What the fuck?
Speaker: 1
02:32:58
No. That is, that that that’s a wow.
Speaker: 2
02:33:02
There’s gonna be a lot of people celebrating this. It’s so scary. It’s so dangerous to to to to celebrate or to in any way encourage this kind of behavior from human beings. He’s not a violent guy who’s talking talking to people on college campuses. Wasn’t even particularly rude. He’s tried to be pretty reasonable with people.
Speaker: 1
02:33:26
Everything I saw seemed reasonable. He’s a very
Speaker: 2
02:33:28
intelligent guy.
Speaker: 1
02:33:29
Yeah. You
Speaker: 2
02:33:30
know, whether you agree with him or don’t. And there’s a lot of stuff that I didn’t agree with him on. That’s fine. You’re you’re allowed to disagree with people without celebrating the fact they got shot.
Speaker: 1
02:33:39
But you can’t disrespect his passion.
Speaker: 2
02:33:41
Yeah. Well, what you’re supposed to do with a guy like that, if you’re opposing him, is debate him. Right. Have a conversation where your your argument is more compelling than his.
Speaker: 1
02:33:50
Sure.
Speaker: 2
02:33:51
That’s what people should be celebrating, discourse. You know, we used to do that.
Speaker: 1
02:33:55
Do some homework and and bring it to the table.
Speaker: 2
02:33:58
Yeah. Yeah. It’s horrible. It’s horrible. This podcast has been a lot about violence, man.
Speaker: 1
02:34:05
It has, but not this kind. No. I I’m I’m sorry. Not not, something is is so in the moment right now
Speaker: 2
02:34:14
from
Speaker: 1
02:34:14
someone that that that this currently current
Speaker: 2
02:34:18
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:34:18
That that that we see and and are are are, you know, aware of daily. Mhmm. Right?
Speaker: 2
02:34:27
Yeah. I mean, he’s one of those young influencers. Right? This time from the right who is, all over social media, always doing these various shows and debating people and talk to people and giving speeches and Sure. Yeah. No one deserves this, folks. No one that has different opinions. No one deserves that. No. This is horrible. No.
Speaker: 2
02:34:54
But I know people are gonna celebrate it because this is a fucked up time, and people have really fallen into this trap of us against them.
Speaker: 1
02:35:04
But it’s also gonna make people not wanna be as courageous or not wanna be as as as as as forthright with with the things they believe. It’s gonna it’s gonna put people on guard.
Speaker: 2
02:35:13
It could. It it also could
Speaker: 1
02:35:15
It could do the opposite. Yeah. I I I get that, but there’s also going to be that sort of ingrained thing now.
Speaker: 2
02:35:22
Mhmm. You’re correct. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:35:24
And, you you know, and you just go you know, going through the whole New York thing, I just you know, sometimes you’re you you know, there’s a there’s a crowd, and it’s all love. It’s all love, and all they want is, you know, is is your signature or a photo or this and that.
Speaker: 1
02:35:38
But there’s so much of those moments where you’re spent looking down. Mhmm. You’re looking down the entire time.
Speaker: 2
02:35:44
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:35:45
And I I don’t think anybody wants to shoot me. I don’t I don’t think that that’s kind of out in the world. Right? No. But it just it’s it’s the type of shit that just lives in in in the back of one’s mind. Yeah. Because how could it not?
Speaker: 2
02:35:58
How could it not? And then
Speaker: 1
02:36:00
and then the thing like today, and you’re like, okay. That that’s why it’s in it’s it’s in it’s in the back of our minds. Yeah. You know?
Speaker: 2
02:36:08
Well, it’s you know, when we’re talking about assassinations earlier, whether it’s Kennedy or RFK or, you know, you think of him in the past. You think of him, like, you don’t when something happens in the the current, like, right now with this one with Charlie Kirk, it doesn’t seem real. No.
Speaker: 2
02:36:26
It seems very surreal.
Speaker: 1
02:36:27
It does. It does.
Speaker: 2
02:36:28
It seems like It does. It’s gonna take a long time before we reference this as some something that happened. Ai, he oh, meh he got shot and killed. Oh, yeah. Like, right now, it’s just doesn’t seem real. It seems, it seems so crazy that just it’s not registering.
Speaker: 1
02:36:45
It’s not. No. Is is is he is he a friend?
Speaker: 2
02:36:52
No. I met him once. Okay. I met him once at a gun range of all places. Wow. Wow. Yeah. He was a nice guy, when I met him. Wow. It’s a fucked up time. People are so divided in this country. So ai, and there’s so many people that love it. They love that we’re ai, and they profit off that division, and they stoke the ai. And and they do it for their own profit, and it’s so fucking gross.
Speaker: 2
02:37:24
It’s so gross. And to encourage this kind of thing is really one of the most horrific things that you could do after someone dies horribly like this to celebrate.
Speaker: 1
02:37:41
It’s it’s it’s it’s it’s on it’s on It should be
Speaker: 2
02:37:43
a wake up call for everybody. Like, this is nuts. This is nuts.
Speaker: 1
02:37:47
No. It’s not it’s it’s unforgivable that that that to spend things like that. And because the people they’re never thinking about is is is that person’s family.
Speaker: 2
02:37:55
I think they just no. That’s just ai default with those. They gaslight you by default. Right. So immediately, they try to find some reason why the whatever the the thing is that’s in the news is someone else’s fault.
Speaker: 1
02:38:08
Right. Of course.
Speaker: 2
02:38:09
It’s just all gaslighting. And that’s what they’re paid to do. They’re paid propagandists masquerading as the news. So weird. Fuck.
Speaker: 1
02:38:19
No. This is a this is a it’s a it’s a dark day.
Speaker: 2
02:38:22
Yeah. It is. Well, one of the things two things is gonna happen. Either people are gonna realize how fucking insane this is, and we have to have a conversation about being able to have conversations.
Speaker: 1
02:38:36
Right.
Speaker: 2
02:38:37
Or it’s gonna get a lot worse. That’s what’s scary. Scary just could spark off some kind of a real violent conflict. You know? Ai guy had a lot of fans.
Speaker: 1
02:38:50
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:38:51
Love that guy.
Speaker: 1
02:38:52
Yeah. I know.
Speaker: 2
02:38:53
And if they find out that he got killed for something that they vehemently oppose in the first place, it could send people over the edge.
Speaker: 1
02:39:00
It could. It could. Yeah. There there there there’s always that flash point moment
Speaker: 2
02:39:05
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:39:05
In in in any, you know, in in in previous times like this.
Speaker: 2
02:39:10
Yep.
Speaker: 1
02:39:11
You know? Yep. It’s there’s always that tipping point moment.
Speaker: 2
02:39:14
Like like the Rodney King film.
Speaker: 1
02:39:16
Yep. Right?
Speaker: 2
02:39:17
Something just ai that’s it.
Speaker: 1
02:39:19
Yeah. You know, this also highlights, just a little bit of perspective, ai, how lucky Trump is was.
Speaker: 2
02:39:30
Oh, yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:39:31
You know? And it’s just ai Charlie didn’t get the benefit of a head turn or a couple a couple of microns or millimeters or you know? And it’s just like, wow. Wow. Who who who decides that? Yeah. What you know? That is just there’s sai thing.
Speaker: 2
02:39:49
Bananas. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:39:51
But they tyler about
Speaker: 2
02:39:52
clips his ear.
Speaker: 1
02:39:53
Yeah. Because he makes a reference to something. Yeah. And then it’s just yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:39:58
And then it clips his ear where if he didn’t turn his head, he’d be dead. And it would have been on live on CNN.
Speaker: 1
02:40:06
How do we know more about an assassination
Speaker: 2
02:40:10
From 1963?
Speaker: 1
02:40:12
Yeah. Than we do from January. Yeah. Eight months ago.
Speaker: 2
02:40:15
That story is fucked. There’s a lot of weird stuff with that story. There’s a cell phone that was traveling because of metadata. You know, cell phone was traveling from offices, outside of the offices of the FBI in that arya, all the way to this guy multiple times.
Speaker: 1
02:40:30
Imagine that.
Speaker: 2
02:40:31
He was, 20 years old. His apartment was professionally scrubbed. There was no silverware in it. There he had no social media presence. He, you know, was regularly training with, like, military guys. He was regularly training in shooting. Like, one guy had remembered him from a range.
Speaker: 1
02:40:49
Right. Right.
Speaker: 2
02:40:50
Like, what? He was in a BlackRock commercial Interesting. Two years before.
Speaker: 1
02:40:54
Right. Like, what? His his his chosen rooftop is just ai between the two quadrants that they’re assigned to cover.
Speaker: 2
02:41:02
Not only that.
Speaker: 1
02:41:03
It’s just a it’s just a blind spot.
Speaker: 2
02:41:04
The the excuse for why they didn’t have officers on that rooftop was it was too sloped. The slope was too steep, which made zero sense. Wow. Because he climbed up it. He was fine.
Speaker: 1
02:41:15
Yeah. He
Speaker: 2
02:41:15
did. What the fuck are are you talking about? It didn’t make any sense. Not only that, the the one where the snipers were perched had a steeper slope. Made no sense. No. It was fucking nuts. They found that guy walking around the, the the grounds a half an hour before the event with a fucking rangefinder.
Speaker: 1
02:41:32
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If if if you’re not if you’re not on a golf course
Speaker: 2
02:41:39
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:41:40
With a rangefinder
Speaker: 2
02:41:41
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:41:41
Then you you you know
Speaker: 2
02:41:43
You’re really gonna shoot something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s what they’re for.
Speaker: 1
02:41:48
But it’s just man, it’s, it it it it sucks that that to say things like, you know, the the the these are the times we we currently inhabit, you know, and and that that there’s nothing that is an absolutely factual statement. Yeah. And it sucks to have to, you you know, to to to exist in in inside of that. Yeah. You know?
Speaker: 2
02:42:15
Yeah. It’s very strange,
Speaker: 1
02:42:16
man. It’s very strange. Very strange. Very strange.
Speaker: 2
02:42:19
It’s very strange and, you know, we’ve talked about it a bunch of times, but it bears repeating. I think a lot of it is highlighted by bots. A lot of it is, people are being inflamed online by people that aren’t even real accounts.
Speaker: 1
02:42:33
Interesting. Sai, I I don’t I I don’t study any of that.
Speaker: 2
02:42:36
Oh, there’s a lot of that going on. Wow. I think it’s a giant percentage of all online discourse where people are hating and saying mean things about people’s political beliefs or anti Israel things or anti Palestine things or whatever. I Ai just think a giant ton of that is foreign foreign governments who are running these bot farms. Wow. And it’s been proven. They they know for a fact.
Speaker: 2
02:42:59
Ai actually got caught recently. What was this? The chat GPT thing. They were using chat they were using OpenAI software.
Speaker: 4
02:43:07
ChatGPT blocked a bunch of accounts ram multiple countries that had suspicious activity.
Speaker: 2
02:43:13
Yeah. And they were commenting on, like, blocking of USAID money and a bunch of different, like, political subjects. And what but what they’re basically doing is just getting people to fight. Just that’s what they want. They want constant fighting, constant in like, ai have to take action.
Speaker: 2
02:43:29
We have to, you know, this is constantly stoking the flames.
Speaker: 1
02:43:33
Right. Right. Right. Wow.
Speaker: 2
02:43:33
So it’s not even organic. Some of it’s organic for sure, but a lot of it is being enhanced by foreign governments for sure. And probably some of it by our own government. What they did with the with the the Manson family, you think they stopped there? You think some of that kind of stuff isn’t going on right now that we don’t know about right now because there hasn’t been a Tom O’Neil to write a book about it?
Speaker: 1
02:43:54
Sure. Sure. And then and then we also never know which stuff was the beta test for the, you know, for that for that, you know, specific type of program or that specific type of op to be rolled out. Yep. And, like, where you know, okay. Let’s let’s let’s sai.
Speaker: 2
02:44:10
How did we react to this? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:44:11
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, hell. Yeah. That worked like a charm. Okay. Activate more of those. You know? Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:44:21
Jesus.
Speaker: 1
02:44:24
How do we how do we wrap this up on a positive note?
Speaker: 2
02:44:26
I don’t think we can. No. I think it is what it is.
Speaker: 1
02:44:29
It is what it is. I think we just have to deal with that.
Speaker: 2
02:44:31
Yeah. Well, listen, man. It was great to finally actually meet you.
Speaker: 1
02:44:35
This was amazing.
Speaker: 2
02:44:35
It’s a lot of fun. Thank you. I really enjoyed talking to you.
Speaker: 1
02:44:37
Yeah. No. I I I think you’ll notice now. I I I always need a few minutes to get warmed up. Yeah. Get settled in. No. You seem
Speaker: 2
02:44:44
cool right off off the bat, man.
Speaker: 1
02:44:45
No. Thank you.
Speaker: 2
02:44:46
Thank you. Stories today, Jesus.
Speaker: 1
02:44:47
Thank you. Ai just my sometimes my bryden, like we talked about Yeah. You know, it wants to go somewhere else when I was trying to
Speaker: 2
02:44:53
It’s amazing your brain works as good as it does considering all the things you’ve done to
Speaker: 1
02:44:57
it. Oh, that’s awesome. Thank
Speaker: 2
02:44:58
you. If you
Speaker: 1
02:44:59
think about it. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. There’s that
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02:45:01
part. Yeah. There’s
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02:45:02
that part. That part. Because people are like, you know, hey, man. You should get some laser work on your face. I’m like, dude, I’m lucky this thing is still
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02:45:11
fucking attached.
Speaker: 1
02:45:11
Yeah. So go fuck yourself.
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02:45:13
You actually look way better than you’ve looked vatsal long time.
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02:45:16
Oh, right on. Thank you.
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02:45:17
The sobriety suits you. Thank you. You look you look really healthy.
Speaker: 1
02:45:20
You know, I took a page out of your book, a very specific page, and Ai and if if even if it’s a ram, it worked. I use a sauna blanket. Right? This thing called Higher Dose, and I’m not sponsored by them. I just bought one and I fucking love it. I use it at home, and then I hear, hey, man. Fucking Joe travels with his. Right?
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02:45:40
I have one of those sauna blankets. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:45:41
But do you travel with it?
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02:45:42
I do if I know that there’s not gonna be a sauna.
Speaker: 1
02:45:45
Okay. Okay. So I was like A
Speaker: 2
02:45:47
lot of times I’ll just try to find a place that has a sauna.
Speaker: 1
02:45:49
Okay. Yeah. I was like, well, fuck it if he’s traveling with him.
Speaker: 2
02:45:52
He definitely can, though. It’s good. They’re great.
Speaker: 1
02:45:54
I’m gonna travel with mine. Yeah. So So I’ve had it on this trip. I I’ve traveled with it. It’s a pain in the ass. I’m lugging this rolling duffel and shit. Who cares? But so so thank you.
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02:46:04
It’s worth it, though.
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02:46:05
Thank you for the idea. Yeah.
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02:46:06
Those are great because those sauna blankets are great because they’re portable, and you could always just get it in.
Speaker: 1
02:46:12
Right. Right.
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02:46:13
I really genuinely prefer a real sauna if you have one because I like to stretch out in the sauna. Sure. It’s it’s the best time ever to stretch.
Speaker: 1
02:46:21
But as far as time with with the with the portable blanket Mhmm. Is like sai I tell people it’s like a Bikram class without all the yelling and pain. Right?
Speaker: 2
02:46:34
A little bit.
Speaker: 1
02:46:35
Well, do you do do you get drenched in that thing? Oh, sure.
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02:46:37
That’s that’s a lot of what Bikram is, you know. A lot of his heat shock therapy.
Speaker: 1
02:46:41
Right.
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02:46:41
You know, it’s also the yoga and the ai, which are great. And Sure. Also the fact that you’re more pliable when you’re really warm and heated up like that, which really helps. But a lot of what they’re there there was actually a study that they were doing at Harvard. I don’t know if they completed it.
Speaker: 2
02:46:56
But, they were doing it a couple years back about, the benefits of hot yoga and whether they’re comparable to the medical the known medical benefits of sauna, which are pretty pretty well documented.
Speaker: 1
02:47:09
And and what what what was the conclusion?
Speaker: 2
02:47:12
They I don’t know. I I have to think it’s gotta be similar because I’ve been in both. You know, I’ve been in a lot of hot saunas, and I’ve done a lot of hot yoga. And that you because of the exercise, I think you reach very similar body temperatures.
Speaker: 1
02:47:26
Got it.
Speaker: 2
02:47:26
And you your heart rate jacks up because you’re so you’re so hot. Sure. You’re you’re, you know, you could barely cool yourself off with a glass of water when they let you have sai sip. Right. In between things, you’re allowed to take a sip of water. Yeah. But it’s, it’s real similar. And it’s ninety minutes, you know, which is fucking brutal. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:47:43
You can get through a real good Bikram hot yoga class at the end of that, man. You’re you’re
Speaker: 1
02:47:49
you’re yeah. You’re you’re you’re gonna have a you you you have a different day in front of you.
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02:47:53
A 100%.
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02:47:54
Yeah. I started
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02:47:55
did that every day. It was ai how everyone started their day. Yeah. The world would be so much more peaceful.
Speaker: 1
02:48:00
Yeah. Yeah. I know. You’re right. It really would. Yeah. It really would.
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02:48:04
It’d be a much, much, much better place. And you don’t have to fucking do anything hard in the gym. You don’t have to lift weights. You don’t have to punch the bag. All those things are great, but Yeah. Just do a hot yoga class for ninety minutes Yep. Every day. You you will live in a different world.
Speaker: 1
02:48:20
Yep. 13 up, 13 down. Right? Yeah. You’ll Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:48:23
You will live in a world of kindness and sweet people and hello, friend.
Speaker: 1
02:48:28
Right. Because you’ve already you’ve already put yourself through something that nobody else can deliver the rest of the day. Yeah. They can’t deliver that kind of pain you just inflicted on yourself.
Speaker: 2
02:48:39
And it’s a constant battle to see if you can use a 100 effort.
Speaker: 1
02:48:43
Exactly. You’re constantly battling. Can I hold this pose for fifteen more seconds?
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02:48:49
Yeah. Yeah.
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02:48:50
And and there’s no cheap zone. Exactly. There’s no you can’t Ai. And if you because
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02:48:55
you’re always doing it a 100% of what you can do.
Speaker: 1
02:48:57
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. No. I I was I I was Sai was going to his his studio on on, like, Rexford in the early eighties.
Speaker: 2
02:49:07
Oh, wow.
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02:49:08
Yeah, man. We were with that original crew.
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02:49:10
Wow.
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02:49:11
Yeah. There’s one thing that was really cool. Kareem was in there.
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02:49:15
Kareem was in there. Kareem was in there.
Speaker: 1
02:49:15
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:49:16
Wow.
Speaker: 1
02:49:16
And, you know, the a lot of the stuff with the arms above the head. Mhmm. He he can only go about here because the ceiling yeah. Ai would come in late ai, and Kareem would already be in there. And so his shoes would be, like, next to his locker. So I would put meh, still wearing my shoes inside his shoes just because I I had just had to. I mean, it’s cool as fuck. It’s Kareem. Right?
Speaker: 1
02:49:38
And so but then Quincy Jones is also in there. Right? And so, the mirror, you could see the front desk where you check-in behind you. Like, you could see it, but it was behind us. We’re all facing forward. And for about a six month period, you know, Quincy’s in a little Speedos.
Speaker: 1
02:49:56
He’s given, you know, he’s given it his all. He’d be in the middle of, like, the standing bow or the freaking head to knee or something ai a triangle or something really complicated, and he’d stop. And he’d leave the class, but you’d see him going to the desk and writing shit down, fucking sweating in his Speedo. Right? And he’s writing shit down.
Speaker: 1
02:50:14
He’s sweating all over the paper. And he’d come back and try to, you know, resume what what he was doing. And then this went on for a while, and we came to find out later. Guess what he was working on? If you think about the year, if you think about, like, what that how his mind was being expanded. Right? He was producing Thriller. Woah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:50:37
And he’s getting inspired during the yoga during the Bikram yoga. So we’re kinda watching in the mirror the the the best I think the largest selling album ever, perhaps. Right? Probably.
Speaker: 2
02:50:51
Yeah. Yeah. Being It’s gotta be up there.
Speaker: 1
02:50:53
Being built behind us. Wow. Kind of a trip. Right? Wow. Yeah. Wow. Love that.
Speaker: 2
02:50:58
That shows you how hyper dialed in he is. Yeah. Even in the middle of a yoga class, he’s gotta run out. He’s probably thinking about it with every pose. Exactly.
Speaker: 1
02:51:06
Yeah. Or or some Meh just how
Speaker: 2
02:51:08
to write it down.
Speaker: 1
02:51:08
How to write it down. Wow. How to write it down.
Speaker: 2
02:51:10
Because most people aren’t allowed to leave the class. But Quincy Jones has to write some shit down for Thriller. You gotta let him leave. Yeah.
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02:51:16
Yeah. He gets that pass, doesn’t he?
Speaker: 2
02:51:19
He gets the pass. Yeah. He gets the pass. Ai, brother. This is so much
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02:51:24
It was an absolute pleasure.
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02:51:25
Thank you. It was an honor. Thank you.
Speaker: 1
02:51:26
Thank you for being here. Yeah.
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02:51:27
Best of luck for you and everything.
Speaker: 1
02:51:29
Thank you. Thank you. Alright. Right on.
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02:51:34
Bye, everybody.