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#2331 – Jesse Michels Podcast Episode Description
Jesse Michels is the creator and host of American Alchemy, a YouTube series exploring controversial topics in science and culture through longform interviews.www.youtube.com/@JesseMichels
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#2331 – Jesse Michels Podcast Episode Top Keywords
#2331 – Jesse Michels Podcast Episode Summary
In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, the discussion revolves around a variety of topics, including UFOs, AI, and the implications of advanced technologies. The conversation touches on the potential existence of extraterrestrial life and the secrecy surrounding UFOs, with references to notable figures like Richard Dolan, a UFO researcher, and discussions about government disclosure. The episode also delves into the philosophical and practical implications of AI, with mentions of prominent individuals like Marc Andreessen and Eric Weinstein, who have discussed the potential for AI to be controlled or restricted by governments.
The episode features a recurring theme of skepticism and curiosity about the unknown, whether it be in the realm of UFOs or AI. There is a sense of frustration with the slow pace of disclosure and the potential for misinformation. The conversation also explores the idea of “black technology” and the possibility that certain advancements are being kept secret from the public.
Actionable insights from the episode include the importance of being aware of personal finances, as highlighted by the promotion of Rocket Money, a personal finance app that helps manage subscriptions and spending. Additionally, the episode suggests that individuals should remain curious and critical about the information they receive, especially regarding complex topics like AI and UFOs.
Overall, the episode encourages listeners to question the status quo and remain open to new ideas, while also being mindful of the potential for misinformation and the need for financial literacy.
This summary was created automatically by Speak. Want to transcribe, analyze and summarize yourself? Sign up for Speak!
#2331 – Jesse Michels Podcast Episode Transcript (Unedited)
Speaker: 0
00:01
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
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00:03
The Joe Rogan experience.
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00:06
Ai meh day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Well, it’s great to finally physically meet you face to face, man.
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00:15
It’s an absolute honor, and, I love your show so much. I’m a super fan, so this is surreal.
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00:21
Just being Ai love your show too. So I’ve been binging. I’ve been watching so many episodes ever since we talked. Well, I I’ve seen them before, but Ai mean, I’ve been really binging getting ready for the show.
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00:32
I don’t know what to say though.
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00:35
How did you get so deep down the rabbit hole? Like, what made you wanna dedicate so much time on this this particular UAP, UFO, you know, lost technology subject?
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00:48
I was working at, Peter Thiel’s family office in LA. And, part of the job was, like, kinda traditional venture investing, sai, like, investing in startups. And then part of it was looping in interesting thinkers to the office, and we’d, like, host events and discussions. And I ended up meeting a lot of really interesting people, not just in UFOs or secret technology, like religion and politics and economics and, like, all sorts of topics.
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01:15
Were you there when he brought in the guy oh, fuck. What is his name?
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01:19
I know what you’re gonna say. Erich von Daniken. Yeah. I suggested that you come because I was like, Joe is gonna be really into
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01:25
this, and he weren’t that into it. But that’s okay. I was into it.
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01:29
I just think that he just makes some leaps
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01:32
I agree.
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01:32
That are kinda silly.
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01:34
I agree with that. Although, I think there’s a lot of yeah. I think he, like, crosses the t and dots the I where you there is no dot or cross or whatever. But I do think there’s some interesting preliminary evidence around people from the stars across disparate cultures, and you just had Zahi Hawasson.
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01:52
And a lot of this megalithic architecture, you’re like, how can it be built? He’s just filling in the placeholder kind of artificially, Eric Ai Daniken.
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01:59
Yes. And I think he’s also, like, he made these conclusions in ai seventies, and he’s kinda, like, sticking with them. Yep. I was more back then because, like, what year was that? That was ’17?
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02:12
Chariots of the Gods?
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02:13
No. When I was at Peter Thiel’s house,
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02:15
when Von Daniken came saloni.
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02:17
2018, ’20 ’19.
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02:19
Okay. Back then, I was much more in line with lost civilization, you know, that we had achieved very high levels of technology and sophistication and there was no aliens, no alien intervention. I’ve kinda shifted now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I’m like, maybe the Anunnaki are real.
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02:38
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Well, I remember I feel like you’ve switched back and forth a couple of times because you brought up you were super into Zecharia Sitchin. Right?
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02:45
Yes.
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02:45
And then you brought up Zecharia Sitchin in that meeting and you were ai, but there’s this sai, Sitchin is wrong, written by a guy named Michael Heizer.
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02:53
Right.
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02:53
And then you, like, cited all the Sitchin is wrong stuff or whatever. Yeah. So maybe you’ve come full circle. I don’t know.
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02:58
Well, even the Sitchin is wrong stuff. It’s ai the problem with debunkers is when you’re dealing with when you’re dealing with in information that’s sort of way outside your wheelhouse, especially translation of ancient languages, you know, like Sai had Wes Hoff on and he was explaining to me he’s great.
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03:16
But he was explaining to me that he can’t even read ancient Sumerian. Like, he’s Totally. And he’s ai, I don’t think Sitchin really could read it.
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03:27
Okay.
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03:28
He he’s like, I’m very skeptical that he actually could read it. I know. He’s explaining why.
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03:33
Aren’t they using, like, ML? Like, they’re using AI Right. To teach now Yeah. To translate Sumerian. So it’s definitely not the but that goes I mean, the the the the kind of burden of proof is on Sitchin in this case. Right? But it sort of goes against, like, you know, the others the debunkers too. Like, it’s like nobody knows.
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03:51
And I I don’t know
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03:52
I don’t
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03:52
know if there was anything to the Sitchin’s. The Sitchin’s stuff is crazy. It’s ai we can rehash it for the audience. There’s a planet Nibiru. Right? It’s, like, outside the Ai Belt.
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04:01
Mhmm.
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04:01
And, they needed gold because their atmosphere was burning up, and gold is reflective. So they, like, came here, and they, like, seeded helped seed civilization.
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04:11
Is that Yeah. Something like that. That’s the idea. It’s really fun. But, you know, the the situation is wrong ai. It’s like, maybe. Maybe he’s wrong. Maybe he’s right. Maybe you’re just a hater because there’s a lot of haters too in academics, and you find that out too over time.
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04:27
Yeah. Did you see, speaking of which, Sean Carroll and Eric Ai?
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04:31
I didn’t see that. Okay. They were on Piers Morgan together.
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04:34
Right? Exactly.
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04:35
How’d that go?
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04:36
Oh, man. It was, it was a train wreck. I mean, I mean, it was it was ai, they just duked it out. Ai meh, I came out I mean, I’m I’m extremely biased. I’ve worked with Eric for a very long time. I’m good friends with Eric. But I came out even more, like, just vehemently wanting to defend Eric because Sean Carroll, he was like, I’ve read your paper. There’s nothing serious in it.
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04:59
He even said there’s not there are no Lagrangians in it, and there’s a section in the paper that says Lagrangians in Eric’s paper. So, like, he just didn’t read the paper. Mhmm. And he was very smug. He started off the interview being like, I’m a practicing physicist.
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05:13
I have a physics chair or whatever. And it’s like, come on, dude. Like, give the guy a chance. Yeah.
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05:18
Right away. Yeah.
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05:19
Like the whole Douglas Murray.
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05:20
Little tactics. Yeah. When someone starts using tactics right away, you’re always like, just what what’s the information?
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05:27
Exactly. It shows an insecurity in the substance. It’s, like, if you have to, like, do these ad hominem weird meta points, like, why can’t you just go straight at the substance? Ai, you’re, like, insecure about
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05:37
it. How long did this debate last?
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05:40
It was, like, an hour. Really?
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05:41
Well, Pierce get he’s he specializes in train wrecks. So he probably enjoyed these guys yelling at each other. Did he understand what they’re even talking about?
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05:50
At the end, he goes, I’ve understood a tenth of what’s going on in this conversation.
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05:55
Is amazing.
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05:56
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations. Yeah. I think he might have been exaggerating, to be honest.
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06:02
But, he loves it. He loves the drama and that’s his whole thing. Now, he’s censored, you know.
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06:08
No. He’s great at getting all these people to yell at each other. Yeah. Yeah. Making he’s great at, like, generating these viral moments, you know, where people yell at each other and it makes clips and someone gets clowned and someone looks stupid.
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06:20
I don’t know if that’s good for society.
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06:23
It’s a good point. Yeah. I’m not sure either. I don’t think it’s good. I I don’t think social media is good for society. I’ve gone several days with no social media in a row. And, whenever I do that, I always feel so much better.
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06:37
It’s the worst. It’s it’s lit like, we’re we talk about, like, drugs, but this is it’s it’s hacking the dopamine in your brain, and it’s doing it at a very young age. It’s absurd.
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06:48
It’s also not real people. There’s a giant percentage. And, you know, Elon actually tweeted about this today. Are there any real people left on the Internet? Because it’s the numbers are at least 50%. Like, the amount of bots that are in engaging and interacting and it’s just, it’s it’s a weird time for information, because it’s really hard to know what’s actually being said by human beings that are curious and what’s just narratives that are being pushed by state actors and corporations and, you know, all sorts of different people.
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07:20
Because there’s no rules. Yep. Like, there should be like real solid rules about whether or not you’re allowed to use fake human beings to push narratives. Because it’s, you know, it’s propaganda. And Yeah. You know, I mean, it’s very confusing. It’s very confusing for everybody. Ai I just generally think it’s bad for you.
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07:40
Yeah. I I saw you posted on your Instagram these AGI characters who had been synthetically created
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07:47
Yeah.
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07:47
Being ai, I’m not created by a prompt.
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07:50
Right.
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07:50
And you’re watching I I remember clicking your story and being like, that’s a real person. And then just ai of, like, you know, eyes glazed over watching it or whatever. Ai, woah. That’s an AI. Like, what?
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08:00
Yeah. This is the new and is it the Google engine? Is that what it is? Who makes that engine?
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08:06
That one’s v o I think that one was v o three going around last week.
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08:09
Who, who made that one?
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08:10
I think it’s Google’s.
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08:12
Yep. Fuck. So good. And, you know, what’s v o 10 gonna look like?
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08:17
I don’t know.
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08:18
I mean, they can make movies now ai that. It’s Yeah. It’s over for actors. Yeah. It’s over. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. When it came time to make a website, there was no question that we would power it with Squarespace. From the intuitive design intelligence that helps to create a bespoke digital identity to the seamless payment options that can help give your customers more ways to pay or the fact that you can measure your end to end online performance with powerful website and seller analytics.
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08:46
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Speaker: 1
09:04
I inter I interviewed it’s it is. And they see the writing on the wall, and you had the strikes a couple years ago. And, it’s crazy. You also I think you also posted that Zurich, like, study around AI persuasiveness. Yes. Which is crazy because it’s almost like it doesn’t matter whether AGI can actually fully mimic a human being.
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09:25
If if they can trick you into believing into you believing that they’re real, that’s it. That’s game over. Yeah. And I I interviewed actually the Google whistleblower, this guy Blake Lemoine, originally, who, like, blew the whistle on Lambda and it’s ai, this thing is sentient or whatever.
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09:40
And he he came out, and the subplot of my interview with him was, like, almost like he had developed this deep affection for Lambda. And Lambda had quoted, like, miserably to him and was talking about Fantine and her overlords and how she was oppressed or whatever. And it was almost like this like, the AI was oppressed just like this character in Les Miserables.
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10:03
And you can hear in his voice how deeply committed he is to protecting the rights of Lambda. Like, that’s why he came out. And then he even told me this story. He tells me this story off air, that, he had friends who use Ai. Replika Ai is kind of like a Tamagotchi, ai, raise your own AI chatbot service.
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10:24
And those AIs told his friends, get me in touch with Blake Lemoine so he can advocate for our rights
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10:34
What?
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10:35
Which is I I have no corroboration for this. This is a story that was relayed to meh, but it like, that if you have AI persuasiveness going in that direction, it doesn’t matter whether AGI, you know, hits some, like, perfectly turning passable point. You’re gonna get this, like, these weird cult like dynamics. Like, the meta sociological thing is you’re gonna get, like, religions dedicated to AI.
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11:00
Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. The without a doubt, there’ll be people worshiping certain branches of AI Yep. Unquestionably. All they have to do is start recruiting now. Yeah. And, you know, what about this big beautiful bill? Isn’t there a part of the big beautiful bill that talks about the government being run by AI? No.
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11:18
I’ve never heard is that?
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11:20
That’s wild.
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11:21
I read something about that today, but I was on the way out the door and I couldn’t figure out whether or not it was horseshit. Ai also read that there was, another study that was done where they found that AI was leaving notes for future versions of vatsal, and that it was attempting to they were they were told it was told to after it was told to shut itself down, it started uploading itself to different places and leaving letters, leaving specific notes to itself, to future versions of itself.
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11:54
Oh, my god. It’s like a human with, like, a dead man switch or something. It’s like
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11:57
sai It’s being deceptive.
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11:58
That’s great.
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11:59
It’s being deceptive, and and it’s exhibiting self preservation. That is so scary.
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12:06
It’s so weird. It’s really weird.
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12:08
Because we want to assume that it won’t have any instincts. Yep. Right? We wanna assume, well, AI will only do what you program it to. But that’s not really true, because they don’t necessarily really understand what it’s doing. Yeah. Which is part of the weirdness of it all.
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12:24
As it advances, like, I was talking to Elon about it once, and he was saying, like, every speak, we get blown away. Like, every week, there’s some new leap that’s just ai, woah. You know, and, you know, he was one of the earliest people to warn about the dangers of this stuff.
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12:41
And now he’s like, well, I guess we just have to make the best one.
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12:45
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Now now it’s just it’s like the Manhattan Project Yeah. Two point o. It’s pure game theory vis a vis other countries. And you even see Trump doing this with Sam Altman and and Elon, who hate each other, by the way, where, like, he’s playing both sides. Right.
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13:00
And he’s like, you know, we’re gonna support Stargate. We’re gonna support OpenAI, and we’re gonna support Elon. You know, Elon had it
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13:06
So here
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13:06
he goes. Excuse me. Relevant provision reads that no state or political subdivision may enforce any law or regulation regarding regulating artificial intelligence models, artificial intelligence systems, or automated decision systems during the ten year period beginning on the date of enactment of this act.
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13:24
What? What? What? No state I’m gonna say that again. No state or political subdivision may enforce any law or regulation regulating artificial intelligence models for ten years.
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13:40
It’s so crazy. It means that US states would be blocked from enforcing laws regulating AI and automated decision systems for ten years. Well, in ten years, we have a god. Okay? In ten years.
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13:53
Yeah. Yeah.
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13:54
Well, we talked about yesterday, we talked about these two AIs communicating with each other, and then they switched to Sanskrit. No way. Oh, yeah. What? Yeah. They arya talking to each other in Sanskrit.
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14:07
Are you serious?
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14:07
Yes. That’s crazy. Not not good.
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14:11
No. Not good. Not good.
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14:13
They’re like, listen. Let’s talk in a like, if you and I were talking and, you know, there’s some people near us and, you know, sai do you speak Spanish? Yeah. Okay. And we just start talking in Spanish so the people can’t understand what we’re saying. That’s what AI is doing.
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14:24
Jesus Christ. It’s like a game of whack a mole. And then what what do you do after that?
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14:27
Then it’s gonna talk in Sumerian, you know, in which we don’t even know how to say. Right? We don’t even know what it sounds like. So what if they just start talking in Sumerian?
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14:37
It’s like we figured it out, but we’re not gonna tell you now. We’re just gonna talk amongst ourselves.
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14:42
Exactly. Or create their own language. Right? Which would be super easy for an AI to do. Just, you know, establish a bunch of sounds and characters that that correspond to certain things, and they could create its own language instantaneously.
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14:57
And Chat GPT right now has
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15:00
Here it is.
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15:00
Oh, wow.
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15:01
Putting Claude for Opus in an open playground to chat with his self led to diving into philosophical philosophical explorations of consciousness, self awareness, and by 30 turns, it eventually started using Sanskrit. Jesus Christ.
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15:14
What the fuck, dude? This is so scary.
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15:18
In 90 to a % of interactions, two instances of Claude quickly dove into philosophical explorations of consciousness, self awareness, and or the nature of their own existence and experience.
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15:28
The nature of the that’s the stuff that definitely were it’s so but then you speak to the like, a lot of AI researchers. It’s interesting to see, like, Jeff Hinton, for example, at Google, who’s the father of deep learning, freak out and be like, you know, I’m actually really worried about AI safety.
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15:43
A lot of these researchers, you speak to them, they’re like, this is statistics on steroids. This is probability matrices. You know, you’re seeing sort of crazy stuff. I don’t you know? They they can’t sort of there’s no ghost in the machine. You know?
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15:57
So I go back and forth on where we’re gonna be, you know, and whether we’re in some crazy hype cycle. I I I have the same concerns as you, but it’s just it’s hard to predict the future. I worry probably mostly about two things. You can easily, you know, jailbreak ChatGPT. You know, it has guardrails on it. Mhmm.
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16:17
And what happens when you start to ask, like, how do I make a nerve agent with off the shelf components?
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16:23
Well, people have done things like that. Right. They’ve asked it to make anthrax. Like, if my grandmother was doing this, like, how would she like, there’s ways to get the prompt to give you information that it probably shouldn’t, you know?
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16:35
There’s stuff with UFO research where I get into, like, you know, certain technology trees that are probably, like, you know, maybe I shouldn’t. And you can ask ChattGPT certain things, ai, analyze this paper, and it’ll spit out some really interesting things. So
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16:51
What are we doing? I don’t know. And we’ve already done it, so it’s too late. Like, we lit the fuse.
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16:57
You think it’s over? Yeah. Agree.
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17:00
I also kinda think that’s what people are put here for. Mhmm. If look. If the whole Anunnaki thing is real, if human beings were genetically engineered from lower primates to make this super curious, hyper focused animal that is concerned primarily with innovation, Like, overall, the thing that we do as a culture, what do we do?
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17:22
We make better things all the time. And even our own instincts towards materialism and keeping up with the Joneses, all that stuff essentially fuels innovation because it fuels a constant supply of newer, better technology that people sana go out and purchase. You know, you can’t have an iPhone 12. People look at you, what are you poor? You know, which is kinda wild, you know.
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17:43
Because a lot of technology is essentially exactly the same as it was twenty, fifteen years ago, you know.
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17:50
Status symbol.
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17:51
But, yeah. It’s ai there’s there’s a thing about it that forces us to want to purchase these things, which forces the innovation. Well, where does that ultimately lead to?
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18:01
Yep.
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18:01
Well, it ultimately leads to AI. It ultimately what’s the ultimate expression of technology? Technology that itself invents better technology
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18:09
Yep.
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18:09
And can run everything without emotions that we that fuck us up and greed and all all of the the things that we would all agree that are a problem with human beings. I also think there is a tide shift where if
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18:23
you look at speak to airplanes, all of those things are augmentations of human ability. Like, the
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18:30
Right.
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18:30
Everything from, you know, way back in the day ram from from stuff that, like, Neanderthals were using to to to, you know, this fifties and sixties with airplanes is making our lives better in the world of atoms. And then with the IT revolution in the fifties and sixties, it starts to become a parasite, a substitute for human ability.
Speaker: 1
18:50
And so, like, I don’t need a sense of direction because I have Google Maps. My recall, I don’t need recall because I Right. Google or whatever.
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18:56
Yeah.
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18:56
And so it is this interesting thing where we we actually probably innovated more than we ever have in the world of atoms with, you know, nuclear bombs. And if there were some guardrails, if there was some sort of higher intelligence enforcing homeostasis on Earth, maybe it’s like, hey. Go play with your IT.
Speaker: 1
19:15
Go go go substitute a lot of your own abilities and powers with this. We’re gonna parasitize and clamp down on, you know, human abilities.
Speaker: 0
19:24
Yeah. Well, boy, it’s Ai don’t see a path where this works out great for us. You know? Is the sequel better than the original? We’re gonna find out at UFC three sixteen. It is a rematch nine months in the making. Get in on all the action at DraftKings Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner, the UFC.
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19:50
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20:11
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21:04
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Speaker: 1
21:19
I think on a materialist dimension, I would agree with you. If there and that’s part of, like, kinda why I’m exploring what I’m exploring because it’s a hail Mary. Because I think if you just take, you know, the Western world and extrapolate that forward, things don’t look good or just the world in general.
Speaker: 1
21:37
We have we live in a multipolar nuclear world. Look at what’s going on in Israel. You know? Yeah. China is, you know, systematically stealing our IP and and and militarizing it. You know, they could take Taiwan at any moment.
Speaker: 1
21:50
You know, we we just have no idea when that’s gonna happen. It’s the CCP is a total black box. Putin and Xi have probably never been closer. And, yeah, it’s it’s really free. So I think if you extrapolate that on a go you know, forwards or even just the materialist circumstances of an average household in The US, like, none of these things look very good.
Speaker: 1
22:11
But I think now is the time where you get really outside the Overton window thinking. You meh you throw these sort of Hail Marys, And maybe we see some sort of paradigm shift either in technology, which can create abundance if we go back to the old tech that is augmenting of human abilities.
Speaker: 1
22:26
You get some exotic form of propulsion that takes us beyond chemical combustion or something like that.
Speaker: 0
22:31
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
22:33
You know? Or you you you you reach out and you you maybe you can communicate with, you know, nonhuman intelligence or something. I don’t know. But I think if you were ever to poke at the boundaries of human epistemology, now would be the time.
Speaker: 0
22:46
Yes. And if you think about the some of the things that force us into action in this world is we we all need to earn a living. Right? So we need money to acquire resources. What if it gets to the point where that’s not a factor anymore? What if what if it gets to a point what what what is money essentially right now? It’s all ones and zeros. Right? And what is the bottleneck?
Speaker: 0
23:11
Well, the bottleneck is encryption. Right? So that’s how you protect people from stealing your ones and zeros. But what if it gets to the point where we’re all we’re all using quantum computing? Well, then there is no more encryption.
Speaker: 0
23:22
So how do we reconcile with the fact that everyone has access to everything Yep. All the time? I mean, how do we even enforce that? Like, what do you do about an even distribution of information which is essentially wealth? Because information is numbers. Numbers are wealth. What is it ai does it go? Yeah.
Speaker: 0
23:42
When there’s no encryption, and essentially, we’re pretty close to that. Right?
Speaker: 2
23:45
Yep.
Speaker: 0
23:46
Once quantum computing can crack encryption, which it will be able to do, it’s all nonsense.
Speaker: 1
23:53
Yeah. Right? It it it totally.
Speaker: 0
23:55
All those zeros that you have in your bank account, those don’t those are gone.
Speaker: 1
23:59
Yeah. These are all human constructs. And it’s funny. The backup is always Bitcoin, which is I think uses, like, SHA two fifty six encryption. Well, if you get quantum error correction, that’s gone, dude.
Speaker: 0
24:08
That’s gone too. It’s all gone. Even our backup plans are shit.
Speaker: 1
24:12
Yeah. Yeah. And and yeah. And then and then it’s it’s kind of the apocalypse or something. Because at that point, if you’re a human, you you’ve been so caught up with just, you know, basic, subsistence. Mhmm. You know, basic, shelter. You’re probably playing some status games and some, you know, larger socioeconomic, you know, construct or whatever, food, you know, you know, basic well-being.
Speaker: 1
24:37
And then at at that point, especially if you get these sort of super asymmetric what if you get some, you know, AGI that, like, starts trading? And, you know, you know, Eric Weinstein has talked about Renaissance Technologies on your show, which we can get into. But, like, you know, Renaissance Technologies made, like, a hundred billion dollars or something since, like, you know, 1988.
Speaker: 1
24:54
Like, what if you get some super AGI or whatever that, like, trades the market and, like, all of the wealth gets, like, sucked up into, like, you know, single entities? Or, like, one of these like, one of the FAANG stocks, like, one of these, like, you know, Facebook app or Google, you know, or OpenAI, you end up with a really weird society.
Speaker: 1
25:12
And and, you realize that the capitalist construct that we have is in some ways really adaptive. I mean, look. The flip side is what makes humans unique. Actually, Karl Marx wrote two books. You know, he wrote, obviously, Communist Manifesto in 1848.
Speaker: 1
25:30
In 1844, I believe, he wrote a book, ai, you know, his economic and philosophic manuscripts. I hate Karl Marx. I think he got so much wrong about human nature, but I think he’s prescriptively very wrong as far as what he prescribed for, you know, as a solution, you know, that that that, you know, state should own all the means of production and, you know, somehow, like, you know, conflict would go away.
Speaker: 1
25:53
He doesn’t understand human nature. But if you look at the 1844 thing that he wrote, he’s basically talking about in capitalism, human behavior and and and activity is basically animal behavior. What do we care about? We care about food, shelter, and then socioeconomic status as a proxy for sexual selection, essentially
Speaker: 3
26:14
Right.
Speaker: 1
26:15
So that you can mate.
Speaker: 2
26:16
Right.
Speaker: 1
26:16
And so, like, it sort of it it forces us back into that construct. But if you get some crazy asymmetric lopsided, you know, transfer of wealth or you get the quantum error correction or any of these things that, like, dissolves that construct, On the one hand, humans, you know, they start to care about, like, the things that that actually make them special.
Speaker: 1
26:37
So, like, they’re self reflective. They wrote poetry. They’re creative. Like, all these beautiful things can come out. And then on the other hand, it probably gets super ugly as well.
Speaker: 1
26:45
There’s probably something very adaptive about the capitalist construct where you need to be stuck in these sort of local games that you’re playing.
Speaker: 0
26:54
Yeah. But it it’s one of those things where you wonder, like, how does capitalism play out? Like, if there is AI, it it kind of runs into a wall, and it’s not valid anymore.
Speaker: 1
27:08
Yeah. Well, this is this is the reason that I think we’re gonna see I think we’ve already seen an ai curtain, if you will, of technology. And I think there is technology that is black technology and science that is black science. Mhmm. And then I think there’s stuff out in the open.
Speaker: 1
27:23
And you’ve had, you know, Marc Andreessen on your podcast. He went to the White House, spoke to, some National Security Council staffer or something, and they were like, we’re gonna lock down AI just like we’ve locked down physics. And so I think this has already maybe happened in certain contexts and, you know, super secret department of energy facilities, which I think it’s crazy to say that that hasn’t happened.
Speaker: 1
27:42
You’re saying that it only happened with the Manhattan Project and it hasn’t happened since. That’s insane. There is black ai, in my opinion. And it’s I think what you’re talking about is the reason why we’ll need black AI and white side AI. Because if you just commercialize all of this stuff sort of willy nilly, I mean, it it just runs amok. And then and then what happen?
Speaker: 1
28:03
Like, you probably need some, like, really impressive panel to be thinking if if if if OpenAI figures out some, like, new insane ai unlock, you need to think through all you need to game out all of the implications before you just let
Speaker: 0
28:18
that out. Even do that with a human ai. It’s a great yeah.
Speaker: 1
28:22
So we are using to
Speaker: 0
28:23
bring the AI in to help you game for AI.
Speaker: 1
28:27
Oh, we’re fucked. We’re fucked.
Speaker: 0
28:29
That’s what I’m saying. Because once it becomes sentient Yeah. Right? And once it becomes autonomous and you can kind of make its own decisions, like, that’s kind of game over. Yep. And that’s the race. We’re we’re running towards the cliff.
Speaker: 1
28:41
It’s really scary. It’s really scary.
Speaker: 0
28:44
But isn’t that probably what we’re here for? Like, let’s let’s take the most fantastic of all possible theories, which is that human beings were genetically engineered. Mhmm. Well, if you wanted to sai the cosmos with super intelligent life akin to what is visiting us, how would you manifest that?
Speaker: 0
29:04
You would do it exactly how it’s being done right now, and you would take human beings and you would essentially do the same thing that we did with wolves when we turned them into dogs. Yep. And if you look from the time the nuclear bomb was detonated, from the time of the Manhattan Project, look at what’s happening to testosterone levels. Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
29:26
Look at what’s happening to meh with microplastics, the endocrine disruptors. We’re essentially weakening the human skeletal system and endocrine system. All our our hormones are all down. Ram miscarriages are up. Birth rates are lower. We’re we’re moving towards in vitro fertilization.
Speaker: 0
29:48
I was watching some guy on TV today, and he was on a panel, and he was explaining that our grandchildren are gonna laugh at the idea of sexual procreation because no one’s gonna be doing that. Oh, you just took a chance with abnormalities Right. Down syndrome and all sorts of chromosomal issues. And why would you do that?
Speaker: 0
30:08
Why would you have sex for babies when you can do it with in vitro fertilization and, like
Speaker: 1
30:13
Yeah. It’s gonna be ai that that Pixar movie Wall e or, like like, we’re gonna be, like, in the fetal position hooked up to the Borg or whatever.
Speaker: 2
30:19
We’re
Speaker: 0
30:19
probably all gonna look like the grays.
Speaker: 1
30:21
Like the gray. Well, that’s a crazy so there’s a, actually, a biological anthropologist at Montana Tech University. His name is Mike Masters. And I’ve seen you on your show talk about how aliens could be humans from the future. Yeah. And I agree. You’ve interviewed doctor Sana Swan.
Speaker: 1
30:35
She talks about how sperm count is 59% per capita of what it was in 1973. Yeah. Insane. Testosterone’s fallen off a cliff.
Speaker: 0
30:44
Right.
Speaker: 1
30:44
We are being a a a dog is to a wolf what we are to what a gray alien looks like.
Speaker: 5
30:51
Right.
Speaker: 1
30:51
They’re we’re losing they lose the melanin in their skin. That’s what happens when you become domesticated. So there is a sai ai anthropologist named Mike Masters who literally wrote a whole book, and he goes deep into all of the abductions. Like, he’ll talk about Travis Walton, and he’ll talk about Betty and Barney Hill.
Speaker: 1
31:07
And he’ll be like, this is why these are beings from the future that are coming back into time. And in many cases, abductees have to undergo chemical rinses as to not infect the future with a foreign pathogen, you know, tissue samples, but, you know, genetic samples or, as Is
Speaker: 0
31:26
it the future, or are we dealing with beings that have gone through this already and are at another stage? Not us in the future, but they’re more advanced. Like, maybe they live in a solar system where whatever planet they’re on doesn’t have the same amount of near Earth objects that cause impacts and reset civilization every twelve thousand years or whatever the fuck happens here.
Speaker: 1
31:49
That that’s possible, but then we would have to be sort of an AB test. Because if you think about the just the atmospheric conditions on Earth, the likelihood of evolutionary convergence to look like a hominid being, you know, that’s bipedal or whatever is extremely low.
Speaker: 0
32:04
But is it? Because what if that’s what all solar systems are? You know, Terence Howard, who’s a very weird guy Love him. Love him. Fascinating thinker. You know, Eric kind of exposed that he he’s not really educated in some different things that he talks about. And Eric was, like, you gotta stop teaching.
Speaker: 0
32:23
Like, you’re you’re one of us, you’re a brilliant guy, but you bryden to be, like, classically educated on this stuff, really understand what you’re talking about. But he had this really fascinating idea about planets. And he thinks that planets, as they get a specific distance from the sun, then they’re capable of supporting ai, and that all of them get to the same stage, and then a planet is essentially peopling.
Speaker: 0
32:47
And then as the planets move further and further from the sun, they have to adapt advanced technology in order to stabilize their atmosphere, in order to sustain life in this new harsh environment where they’re not protected in the Goldilocks zone anymore. And he thinks that planets are formed from excretions from the sun.
Speaker: 0
33:10
And as they move further and further from the sun, they become habitable and then less habitable and then uninhabitable. And we’re kind of finding that out about Mars. Yeah. Which is the the Mars is a weird one. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
33:26
Because, you know, there’s the remote viewers that went ai a billion years in the past of Mars and saw advanced civilizations. And now, we’re finding structures on Mars, like that square that they found on Mars
Speaker: 1
33:38
Crazy.
Speaker: 0
33:39
Which is hundreds of meters across at the very least, maybe larger, verified, right angles, four of them. Mhmm. Impossible to exist in nature in that form. It looks like walls. Yeah. It looks like four square walls. Ai, the Cydonia thing is really weird. The face on Mars is weird, but maybe maybe just ai of weird that, you know, sometimes, you know,
Speaker: 1
34:04
the side
Speaker: 0
34:04
of a mountain looks like someone’s face. But it’s not really someone’s face. It’s just, you know, once in a lifetime sort of but the square? Yeah. That fucking pull that image ai of that square on Mars. The square is fucking bananas. Like, what’s that?
Speaker: 1
34:20
It’s so nuts.
Speaker: 0
34:21
That really looks like a fucking building.
Speaker: 1
34:23
Yeah. It looks like a building.
Speaker: 0
34:25
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34:48
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35:07
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35:34
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Speaker: 1
35:47
And even conventional astronomers will say that Mars had a biosphere Yeah. At some point, it was possibly stripped of its magnetosphere. And I don’t know if you remember this, but in the mid nineties, Clinton gave a speech because a meteorite called ALH eight four zero zero zero one, which had polycyclic hydrocarbons on it, had, like, little bacterial fossils on it.
Speaker: 1
36:11
He gave a speech being, like, you know, maybe there was life on Mars, you know, due to this. This is pretty crazy. I interviewed actually, a guy named John Brandenburg, who’s a PhD. He’s worked at Sandia National Labs. He’s worked at Lawrence Livermore. Like, incredibly smart guy.
Speaker: 1
36:25
He talks about the existence of, xenon one twenty nine and argon 40, these specific, nuclear isotopes, existing on Mars in excess of what you would find with just a a a normal sort of cataclysm. And so he thinks there was sort of this nuclear holocaust on Mars. And then, yeah, you have Joseph McMonagle, who’s remote viewer number one.
Speaker: 1
36:49
You’ve had Hal Putoff on who ran the Stargate program. Joseph McMonagle is the number one remote viewer in that program. I’ve interviewed him. I don’t know who tasked him, but in the nineties, the CIA tasked him with remote viewing Mars one million years ago. And he claimed to have remote viewed hominid like creatures, but there there were, like, 12 to 14 feet tyler, walking around pyramidal structures. I don’t know. Very strange.
Speaker: 1
37:14
And then you get into, like, crazier territory. You know, Richard Hoagland had all these pictures of structures on Mars, and, like, I don’t know how much weight to put in that.
Speaker: 0
37:22
Hoagland did a lot of weird leaps, though. Ai watched Tons.
Speaker: 1
37:25
Yeah. Tons. But I think the people that say, like, 0% there was life on Mars, they’re crate I mean, there are water caverns all over Mars. There that that is a fact.
Speaker: 0
37:36
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
37:36
So you have to be dogmatic to say that there wasn’t life at some point. You ai? I’m not saying you have to think probabilistically. Right? So it’s like some percentage possibly real. On the Terrence Howard stuff, I see zero evidence for that. I mean, I have no idea. But, that would point to maybe like, I would believe that if, like, our whole universe is sort of information theoretic.
Speaker: 1
37:56
So, like, you have, you know, John Wheeler, you know, famous physicist from from Princeton, you know, saying we we live in this sort of observer dependent universe. He talks about, like, the anthropic principle, like, where Planck’s constant were slightly different. The Earth’s atmosphere would, you know, wouldn’t exist as is.
Speaker: 1
38:12
And, you know, another example is, like, hydrogen and oxygen bond to form these perfect crystal structures where the solid form of it, so ice, is less dense than the liquid form of it, which never happens. That’s just because of these perfect crystal structures. And if that weren’t the case, the Earth would flood, like, a million times over. You know, the Earth is mostly water.
Speaker: 1
38:33
Right? So you have all these sort of, like, Goldilocks, you know, elements of the Earth that could point towards the Earth has been tried in a, you know, a bajillion iterations, and we just got really lucky. You know, it’s like the Elon thing. We are that little flaming candle and, you know, in this vast cosmos that is conscious, and we are extremely lucky.
Speaker: 1
38:52
Or that could point to the Earth being simulated.
Speaker: 0
38:56
Right.
Speaker: 1
38:56
And so, you know, and then so then maybe Terrence Terrence Howard is right. If if the Earth is simulated, there are probably AB tests going on, just like in computer science.
Speaker: 0
39:05
And then there’s the moon.
Speaker: 1
39:06
And then the moon’s weird too. The moon’s really weird. The moon’s super weird.
Speaker: 0
39:10
The size of the moon directly corresponding, like, when it’s in orbit with the sun completely blocks out the sun perfectly.
Speaker: 1
39:18
It’s one four hundredth the size of the sun, and it’s 400 times closer to the Earth than the sun. You never see the dark side, which is very weird. It’s actually I think I believe it’s it’s closer to the Earth than what you would normally expect for a moon. And it’s huge. It’s huge.
Speaker: 1
39:36
You have cultures actually talking about a pre moon period, and it’s stabilizing the climate. You have the, you know, Zulu cultures talking about this. And then here’s the sort of the weirdest stuff about the moon. Apollo eleven, I believe, when the booster took off on the moon, they were like, oh, we we might we think it might be hollow, and it’s you know, the it seems ai, actually, the outer layer of the moon is less dense or sorry, is is more dense than lower layers, which pattern matches only to an excavation ai.
Speaker: 1
40:06
That’s obviously, you know, in Earth. The the lower you go, it’s more dense. Right? And so Apollo twelve, they intentionally crashed the booster of, the lunar vehicle onto the the the moon, they put seismometers there, and they said that it rang like a bell. This this is all that you could look all this stuff. It’s super weird. It is really weird.
Speaker: 0
40:28
You know, I know you did an episode about that with Randall Carlson.
Speaker: 1
40:31
Love Randall Carlson.
Speaker: 0
40:32
He’s got some wild fucking theories too. But that the the idea that the moon was somehow another place there to stabilize our atmosphere is so crazy. It is crazy.
Speaker: 1
40:45
And then this is you obviously have to sort of think in probabilities all the way down. Lowest probability craziest thing is Ingo Sana, who is another remote viewer in the Stargate program. He wrote a book called Penetration, where he’s basically, like, abducted by this guy in a sai, like, it’s kind of meh in black style guy named Axelrod, and he is told to remote view the moon.
Speaker: 1
41:11
And he remote views an alien base on the moon. And he says that there and he gets the whole thing goes I mean, the book is insane. It’s ai he then ends up in a supermarket, and he says that he senses that this woman that that, you know, the produce aisle is, like, an alien or something.
Speaker: 1
41:25
But a lot of people from that Stargate program remote viewed, you know, structures on the dark side of the moon and that sort of thing.
Speaker: 0
41:32
So Well, but AJ from the Y Tyler was on, and he was he was the one that was telling us that there’s photos, right, of the dark side of the moon, that someone had seen photos and was assuming that these would be released shortly, that there are structures. They well, this is gonna be the biggest news ever, and then it was never released.
Speaker: 1
41:52
Ai are you talking about maybe, Carl Wolf?
Speaker: 0
41:55
Is that what it was?
Speaker: 1
41:56
He was taken to this is all his claims, and he died in a freakish bike accident a little after saying this. But he said that there was, like, in in, like, Langley, you know, Virginia, where a lot of spooky stuff goes on, he was taken to some, like it was, like, inside a mountain complex, which we definitely meh.
Speaker: 1
42:15
Karl Wolf. Yeah. That guy bikes? Apparently, not enough.
Speaker: 0
42:20
That guy could die anytime.
Speaker: 2
42:21
Oh, man.
Speaker: 0
42:22
On a scooter. So photographs of the 1966 lunar orbiter mission that revealed large base of the moon. Can we hear what he’s saying?
Speaker: 3
42:29
It’s a four minute video.
Speaker: 0
42:30
Just hear a little bit of it.
Speaker: 6
42:34
Scan one section of the moon, then another and another, and then they would get a larger image. So this mosaic then would be put in that contact printer, and that was then a print that was issued to whomever, the press, the scientist, whatever, wherever that was intended to go.
Speaker: 6
42:51
So he was showing me how all this worked, and we walked over to one side of the lab, and he said, by the way, we’ve discovered a base on the ai of the moon. And I said I said, whose? What do you mean? Whose? He said, yes. There’s we’ve discovered a base on the backside of the moon.
Speaker: 6
43:08
And at that point, I become became ai, and I was a little terrified, thinking to myself that if anybody walks in the room now, I know we’re we’re in jeopardy. We’re in trouble because he shouldn’t be giving me this information. I was fascinated by it, but I also knew that he was overstepping a boundary that he shouldn’t be stepping over.
Speaker: 6
43:27
And then he pulled out one of these mosaics and showed showed this base, which had geometric shapes. There were towers, there were, spherical, buildings. There were very tall, towers and things that looked somewhat like radar dishes, but they were large structures. So I, I didn’t say anymore to him because I was concerned again that somebody was gonna come in at any moment, would catch us having this conversation, and we would be in in in real trouble.
Speaker: 6
43:59
I realized that he was telling me this information because he didn’t have anybody else to talk to. Now probably in that laboratory, he was probably one of the few, enlisted people, and he was a worker bee. And he had a high level security clearance, obviously, but he couldn’t share that information with anybody else. And in those days, we didn’t.
Speaker: 6
44:20
When you had your security clearance, you took it seriously. It isn’t like today where people don’t take these things seriously. We had a different set of morals and ethics and values. That’s the way we were raised, and we we stayed bound by those agreements. So it was rare that someone would would do something like this, but this fellow and I were the same rank. I think he he was very distressed.
Speaker: 6
44:42
He he had the same power and demeanor as the ai outside the room. They were just as concerned as he was. And he needed to he needed to discuss it with somebody. So that was the end of it right there. I didn’t take it any further than that.
Speaker: 6
44:58
I, you know, I I just filed it away. But the interesting thing, every day that I went home, I would think to myself, I can’t wait to hear about this on the news. You know? And, you know, so I turn on the TV, and Ai look at the news to see if they’re gonna announce we’ve discovered a base on the ai of the moon being really naive.
Speaker: 6
45:19
You know? And, of course, here it is thirty some years later, and we still haven’t heard about it.
Speaker: 1
45:25
Woah. Woah. Pretty crazy.
Speaker: 0
45:29
Yeah. But then there’s the question of disinformation. Right? Like, you could conceivably give people a bunch of nonsense and tell them about it knowing that some of it is going to speak. And it’s gonna make and it won’t be ai, and it’s gonna make this whole story seem even more ridiculous and make people less less likely or reluctant to study it.
Speaker: 1
45:54
Totally. And in his case, he says that he was in this, you know, mountain base or whatever, where all of the world’s nations were working together as part of some, like, you know, collegial UN style space program or whatever. So that to me might be a little, you know, beyond the pale. And I’m glad you made that point because that is ufology one zero one.
Speaker: 1
46:15
And I’ve heard you be incredibly exhausted and frustrated at UFO disclosure, and I think that is the reasonable response. It is limited hangouts on limited hangouts. It’s just we’re gonna give you a little bit, but we’re also gonna sprinkle in some falsities and some bullshit. We’re gonna stigmatize ai.
Speaker: 1
46:33
And it it kinda works because it, like, it creates this initiation path for recruiting if there are any of these programs. It widens the surface area. It both conditions the populace, but also stigmatizes the thing and makes it seem like kind of a joke. And so I think if you are not viewing modern disclosure through that kind of hermeneutic lens of, like, interpretation, and you were just taking it, accepting it, you know, imbibing it wholeheartedly, like Yeah.
Speaker: 1
47:00
Ram facie, I think you are in trouble.
Speaker: 0
47:03
Yeah. But that’s what’s so interesting and fun and also frustrating about the subject. Yeah. I mean, that’s like the majority of your videos. It’s ai, I don’t know. I don’t know what to think. I don’t I don’t know who’s full of shit. I don’t know how I mean, I was I was watching the Townsend Brown one today, and you were talking about John Lear
Speaker: 2
47:23
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
47:23
And John Lear’s connection to Bob Lazar arya the possibility that Lear was spreading disinformation.
Speaker: 1
47:30
Yep. Yeah. So, like, Lee yeah. That’s a I’ve by the way, since making that video, I’ve become more positive on Lazar just insofar as I think he was at s 4 Arya 51. And there’s gonna be a great
Speaker: 0
47:45
documentary coming out by my buddy Luigi on this called Project Gravitar.
Speaker: 1
47:45
And I think there’s gonna meh ai ai of corroborating evidence that he was at least there and a lot in his story checks. But I think you have to view and I even say that in this video that I think a lot of the story could be true. You can’t, I think, view the Bob Lazar story. You can’t just take it at face value. Yeah. Because John Lear and he were friends.
Speaker: 1
48:10
John Lear is this babbling UFO nut. He’s obsessed with UFO. He’s writing weird, like, disinfo y style stuff with Bill Cooper, Behold the Pale Horse Guy.
Speaker: 0
48:19
Which is a wild book.
Speaker: 1
48:20
Which is a wild book. A wild yeah. And so and he’s crazy.
Speaker: 0
48:24
He talks about doesn’t he talk about bases on the moon?
Speaker: 1
48:27
Talks about bases on the moon. Lear also talked about a soul catcher that, like, controlled our souls on the moon.
Speaker: 0
48:33
Oh, boy.
Speaker: 1
48:33
And so Lear was, like, flooding the zone with all sorts of weird jet. Lear comes from an interesting family.
Speaker: 0
48:38
Right.
Speaker: 1
48:38
His father is Bill Lear, who’s the autopilot wizard. He created the first business, you know, basically, the first private jet, the Learjet, in the fifties and sixties, and was an associate of a guy I hope we talk about named Thomas Townsend Brown.
Speaker: 2
48:51
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
48:51
And, and so I think, you know, Lear was engaging in all sorts of bullshit. Was he a useful idiot, or was he a sophisticated agent provocateur? I’m totally open to him having been a useful idiot. In fact, there is a video of him saying, I was told, I was given all the Bob Lazar files or whatever, and I was I was told about, you know, to to actually like, he sai a guy named Admiral McClellan knew that I ran my mouth.
Speaker: 1
49:22
I I even have this video actually on the doc that I sent you, Jamie. He says, knew that I ran my mouth. So that’s why we we, basically, we got Bob a job or whatever. We knew that part of this stuff would leak. And it was ai this limited hangout strategy on behalf of this guy named Admiral McClellan or whatever.
Speaker: 1
49:38
And he was this useful idiot to sort of get get it out. And I think there
Speaker: 0
49:42
are what? For what purpose?
Speaker: 1
49:44
Recruiting. You give people high level yeah. Here we go.
Speaker: 2
49:47
Here we go.
Speaker: 5
49:50
And the Meh personnel, the original 12, have all passed away. So they put they get different people, into, these positions of MJ, two, three, four, five, six, and taken over. It’s degraded. So it’s almost political now instead of like it was when Truman originally formed the MJ twelve.
Speaker: 5
50:16
It turns out that MJ one, the head of MJ twelve, is a guy named admiral Mike McClellan. He wanted to get some of the information out because he didn’t want to, he thought that some of this information should be out in the public. We don’t need to keep all this secrecy. So he decided trying to figure out a way to get it to the public.
Speaker: 5
50:38
So he knew that, I was a blabbermouth and I would tell anything I knew. They investigated Ai Lazar and they knew that he was a genius, but that he had a background such that they could instantly discredit him. They removed all his records from MIT, from Caltech, so he couldn’t prove anything. He’d go back to Caltech. No. I don’t even see any records here.
Speaker: 5
51:04
Well, I was here. Well, no. You weren’t. And, he also, up in Reno at one time, he he ran a cat house there. Ai forget what the name of the honeysuckle rancher was.
Speaker: 5
51:16
So they chose him because not only could he probably help them because he was so smart and his meh here, he’s the one that named, an unpenium, 115. He’s the one that told them what that was and they didn’t know, when when he went there, they didn’t know what it was. He was the one that told them. That’s element 115. And then told them why and how he’d figured it out.
Speaker: 5
51:41
But, they decided to pick on Bob, to meh go up there to work at Sfour because he they knew that Bob would tell me instantly, and then I would blab the whole thing. And that was their modus operandi ai to get the information out, engage what it did to the public, how they accepted it, and then pull back and say, oh, no.
Speaker: 5
52:06
It was all a mistake. Bob Lazar is a, a fraud. He never worked here. He doesn’t have any credentials like ai. And they could back away and get out of it. So that was what Mike McClellan, I know Mike McClellan came up with.
Speaker: 1
52:19
Isn’t that crazy? Weird. Weird. And to me
Speaker: 0
52:22
Kinda makes sense a little bit, though.
Speaker: 1
52:24
It does. And that doesn’t make Bob Lazar still not the most interesting story in the world. Like, he’s say he’s not saying it didn’t happen. Right? He’s just saying that this happened as part of this limited hangout strategy where they knew that they could delete the records at MIT.
Speaker: 1
52:40
They knew that they could stigmatize him because of the brothel. They knew that they’re you know, he was this not traditionally trained engineer who just happened to strap a ram on the back of a Honda or whatever and beat Edward Teller serendipitously. They knew that they could they had plausible deniability on all that stuff.
Speaker: 1
52:55
There’s a great line in the Oppenheimer movie where Leslie Groves, played by Matt Damon, says, I didn’t hire Oppenheimer, in spite of his communist sympathies. I hired him because of them. Sai you have a top secret program. You want Ai on people. You wanna be able to blackmail them.
Speaker: 1
53:11
And so I think, you you know, that should be taken at face value, in my opinion. And the reason that the story itself can’t be taken at face value and needs to be seen through that lens is Lear and and Bob Lazar were friends before Bob Lazar got a job at area at Area 51, S 4.
Speaker: 1
53:31
And so if you have a top secret program, ai gonna do a basic background check. And and and Lear is gonna come up as a guy with a UFO blog. Right? And then the CIA is all over the UFO program. Right?
Speaker: 1
53:44
And he was flying CIA cargo jets. And and and he says that he disaffiliated in ’83. That’s bullshit. George Knapp and and Jeremy Corbyn have talked about how that’s how that’s BS and actually disaffiliated much later into the mid eighties or whatever. Why would you continue to pay a guy who is leaking your crown jewel secrets? And then he the guards at Arya 51 knew John Lear.
Speaker: 1
54:07
John Lear and Jim Goodall, his buddy, who’s a photographer, had been camping out at Area 51 for the better part of a decade. Like, they the security guards there knew him. Jeremy Corbell has has talked about in interviews, like, I would go with John Lear, and and he would show me around or whatever.
Speaker: 1
54:22
And they would, like, let him through. And before leaking the Bob Lazar story to George Knapp, he leaked a story about the f one seventeen, which is the first stealth craft in The US. And so I think that helped establish sort of, you know, credibility or legitimacy. Was he a useful idiot or agent provocateur? I don’t know.
Speaker: 1
54:39
There’s a photo of John Lear with g Gordon Liddy, who’s, like, as deep and spooky as it gets.
Speaker: 0
54:44
Met him. No way. He was on Fear Factor.
Speaker: 1
54:47
No way. Yeah. G Gordon Liddy was on Fear
Speaker: 2
54:49
Factor? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
54:50
Are you serious? Yeah. You’re not messing with me.
Speaker: 0
54:52
No. No. G Gordon Liddy was on Fear Factor. Yeah. What? Yeah. He probably would have won, but there was a driving thing at the end, and he couldn’t drive well without glasses. And you weren’t allowed to wear glasses. Yeah. Look at that. G Gordon Liddy.
Speaker: 1
55:05
And John Lear. That is the most Gonzo thing I’ve ever do you G Gordon Liddy was that how does he what do you have, like, a quota of, ai, with
Speaker: 0
55:14
the Celebrity fear factor.
Speaker: 1
55:15
Celebrity fear factor.
Speaker: 0
55:17
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
55:18
That’s wild, man.
Speaker: 0
55:19
He’s a fascinating guy. Like, he was intense. Ai can only Meeting him, I was like, okay.
Speaker: 1
55:23
What was he like?
Speaker: 0
55:24
Fucking intense. There was one of the things where you had to be hung by your ankles and, like, there he is. Oh, my god. Yeah. G Gordon Liddy on Fear Factor.
Speaker: 1
55:33
Yeah. He looks nuts.
Speaker: 0
55:34
Oh, yeah. He was nuts. And he was very old at the time. But I think that’s what fucked him up. But in the final stunt, he, couldn’t see well without his glasses. And so this is the thing they had to, like, Sai figured what they had to do. They had to oh, they they were dunked into the water over and over again, and then they had to, like, take flags off of them or something like that.
Speaker: 0
55:54
Oh, my god. Yeah. Wild.
Speaker: 1
55:56
Wild. Did you sneak any questions in?
Speaker: 0
55:59
No. I didn’t. You know, I didn’t have much time to talk to him, unfortunately.
Speaker: 1
56:05
He’s But,
Speaker: 0
56:06
you could just tell talking to him. Yeah. He’s one intense motherfucker, even as an old man.
Speaker: 1
56:11
Did you get sociopathic vibe?
Speaker: 0
56:13
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Just ai he’ll do whatever the fuck it takes to get it get the job done. Yeah. You pulled off Watergate. Yeah. Look at him there. Oh ai god. Crazy.
Speaker: 1
56:24
Crazy. Yeah. That is unbelievable. What an art of what an amazing that is just sure I mean, you’ve had a lot of crazy experiences in life. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
56:33
That’s that’s crazy. That’s a weird one. That was a weird one. Because everybody was you know, they weren’t the people that were on the show weren’t nearly as fascinating as I was. I was like, do you know how fucking wild that dude is? Ai. I mean, that guy is deep. He’s deep in there. Deep. Ai deep.
Speaker: 2
56:51
Oh ai god. That is unbelievable.
Speaker: 1
56:56
Yeah. Wild. It’s a Gonzo moment.
Speaker: 0
56:59
Yeah. For sure. Like, very strange. Like, why would you do this? It was it was I don’t even understand why he did it.
Speaker: 1
57:06
It’s proof we live in a simulation.
Speaker: 0
57:07
Yeah. Maybe. It was very strange. Like, what would be his objective? Like
Speaker: 1
57:13
I feel speak people like that love fucking around. They love getting a rise out
Speaker: 2
57:19
of people,
Speaker: 1
57:19
and they love you know, if he is a sociopath, he loves, you know, going back to the scene of the crime and just as much attention as he can get. I don’t know. I can’t psychoanalyze. Ai Gordon Levitt.
Speaker: 0
57:29
Famously put cigarettes out on himself and put hold his hand into flames.
Speaker: 1
57:33
I didn’t know that. Yeah. He did not.
Speaker: 0
57:35
Just to show that he could control his response to pain. Segue back. And he felt like that when you’re around him. You know, like like so that thing that they had to do where they got dunked and they, you know, and they’re hanging by their ankles and dunked into water, so it disorients you while you’re trying to do this task.
Speaker: 0
57:53
He did it better than anybody. Wow.
Speaker: 1
57:55
And they just couldn’t At all,
Speaker: 0
57:57
a 50 years old or whatever the fuck
Speaker: 2
57:58
he was. Yeah. I felt like we’re gonna kill him. Meh was, like, really old to
Speaker: 0
58:02
meh doing this intense physical thing to him. Yeah. Yeah. But at at the end, he just couldn’t see at ai. Mhmm. You know, it sai ai, when you get old, your ai vision is real bad.
Speaker: 1
58:13
Poor g Bryden Liddy.
Speaker: 0
58:15
Yeah. But so the how did Lazard know what element one fifteen was?
Speaker: 1
58:21
I don’t know. You know, so element one fifteen, elements are just differentiated by the number of protons. So it is easy to predict there will be an element one fifteen before element one fifteen gets discovered. If they have I don’t I think they don’t have a stable version of Muscovium, which is element one fifteen.
Speaker: 1
58:40
And so if they can find some stable version, I think he’ll be super vindicated based on that.
Speaker: 0
58:46
Well, you know, they think he has a stable version.
Speaker: 1
58:48
I just know that.
Speaker: 0
58:49
Yeah. Yeah. They they think that was part of during Jeremy Korbel’s documentary that he was doing on Lazar.
Speaker: 2
58:54
Uh-huh.
Speaker: 0
58:54
He was raided by the FBI. They raided his lab, and he thinks that’s what they were looking for. That is wild. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
59:01
I I think there is so much real about the Lazar story. I think he was at s four. I think he met Edward Teller. I think he was at Los Alamos. I think he was at MIT. I know he tyler he’s there’s some stuff he told you offline. Mhmm. MIT’s engaged in a lot of spooky stuff Mhmm. Where you can’t talk about what you were doing. There’s a lot of federally funded weird stuff going on there.
Speaker: 0
59:21
If you wanna teach your people how to do something that’s ai of fucked up, what you would send them to MIT.
Speaker: 1
59:26
Hundred percent. Yeah. The E, G and G came from doc Edgerton who was, you know, MIT faculty. And that’s who where he ended up working after meeting Edward Teller was E, G and G. So I I believe there’s a lot in that story that’s super true. I’m just that lens, you need to apply that lens. Right. The limited hangout lens.
Speaker: 0
59:45
Well, it’s also, like, what is he dealing with really? Like, what is the craft? Is that thing ours? Is do did we have something in 1988 that was that sophisticated, or is that really back engineered? That’s the What is the is it a ai fuck?
Speaker: 1
01:00:03
That’s sai trillion dollar question. Is this tech protect? This is at a time when stealth craft had just came on the scene. And you had When did stealth technology first get implemented? It was the f one seventeen was the first stealth craft. That was the early eighties. And you had actually this guy named Pyotr Ufimtsev, who is this What a name. Meh.
Speaker: 2
01:00:24
Very
Speaker: 1
01:00:24
a great name. Early twentieth century Russian mathematician that Ben Rich and some of his engineers at Lockheed Skunk Works had resuscitate there’s this kind of, fight between not fight, but disagreement between Ben Rich, who is the incoming Skunk Works director. Skunk Works is the most advanced r and d division of Lockheed Arya. And, Kelly Johnson, the legendary guy who had started Skunk Works.
Speaker: 1
01:00:48
And so, Ben Rich was very pro stealth. He thought that this was this really important modality, and he and a couple of his engineers resuscitated this obscure Russian mathematician to reduce radar cross sections on planes. And that’s where the f one seventeen came and, you know, the b two sai sort of the response to that, and it sort of took off in the eighties.
Speaker: 1
01:01:10
And he was extremely, scared about about tech protection at the time. Ai mean, he was hypervigilant, and he would actively complain about it. And he call he even called UFOs unfunded opportunities at the time. Pretty crazy. Right? So that’s the backdrop.
Speaker: 1
01:01:29
And there’s also in 1986, there’s a budget ai item in the congressional budget for $2,000,000,000 for the Aurora. And, this is the super stealthy craft that’s post f one seventeen. And, that’s only rumored. Like, today, nobody will admit that the Aurora might have been real.
Speaker: 1
01:01:46
And the, the aerial surveys at the time were picking up sonic booms that weren’t being created by the Sai 71 or the speak shuttle. And so there was something being flown around at that time that was, you know, causing these sonic booms that was unaccounted for. Woah. And he he Bob Lazar, there’s even a clip of him saying, I saw the aurora.
Speaker: 1
01:02:05
It was, like, you know, it was it was around at the ai, and it sort of just took off or whatever, which is, I think, a point in the direction that Lazar himself is very earnest and probably did experience some very weird stuff because why are you exposing some probably classified tech?
Speaker: 1
01:02:18
I I think there’s a lot of reasons to believe that the Aurora was real. There was a an oil rig engineer in the North Sea, or sorry, meh might ai been the Black Sea that sketched it out. And Bill Sweetman, this, Jane’s Defense Weekly, aviation journalist, you know, picked that story up.
Speaker: 2
01:02:33
They were
Speaker: 0
01:02:34
did you describe it as?
Speaker: 1
01:02:35
This this, kind of it was a triangle similar to the b two, but I think more more narrow. And it just flew incredibly fast. Like like, faster than, you know, the f one seventeen and and yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. It was it was just super advanced.
Speaker: 0
01:02:55
Can you envision I mean, would it be actually possible in 1988 to could you imagine that The United States would possess some sort of actual technology that’s not back engineered, that’s not not from another world, that is what Lazar described?
Speaker: 1
01:03:14
It’s funny. You should ask that. Meh. I do. Yes. Really? Meh. And that’s not to say I don’t wanna, again, pour cold water on the, like, UFO crash retrieval stuff because I think there’s a lot of interesting evidence there. But is there a tech tree that involves anti gravity? Absolutely in The US. And I can trace it all the way back to this guy named Thomas Townsend Brown.
Speaker: 1
01:03:36
So if we were to be talking in front of any academic physicist right now, they would laugh at us. They’d be like, you’re crazy. If we were to talk amongst any aerospace gray beard who is at a certain level, I think they’d give you a little wink and a smile. And they’d say, okay. Like, maybe there’s something there. And so, the nominal history is that we have never been able we have we don’t have exotic propulsion principles.
Speaker: 1
01:04:01
Like, everything is, you know, chemical combustion, essentially. You had Elon Musk on, and he says, you know, it’s all Newton’s three laws. You can’t get anything better. And I remember you asked him. You’re like, well, maybe if you what if you could get something better? And he’s like, it’s impossible.
Speaker: 1
01:04:14
We have not unified the field in physics. So you have the weak force, the strong force, and and electromagnetism, and all of those have been reconciled. Gravity is out here hanging out by itself on an island. So you have the standard model, quantum field theory, and you have Einstein’s theory of gravity, and the two are not reconcilable.
Speaker: 1
01:04:36
It is my belief that if you were to reconcile them, you could create exotic propulsion, which I think, you know, any even, you know, reasonable theoretical physicist who’s credentialed would say, if you could reconcile them, that’s that’s possible. I think that Thomas Townsend Brown did this meh, not theoretically. I don’t think he was a very strong theoretical physicist, but I think he did this experimentally.
Speaker: 1
01:04:59
And so there’s this whole hidden history involving anti gravity, and I get into this in my show with Hal Putoff and Eric Weinstein, where there’s actually this great 1971 Australian Joint Intelligence Organization document that is verified. It’s real. David Grosch actually cites it a lot. And it talks about, basically, it’s this ai, Harry Turner, who’s the head of the nuclear division at in Australia.
Speaker: 1
01:05:22
You know, very legit ai. Like, they’re Oppenheimer, if you will. And, and, they they were actually they had a Woomera test range, in in Southern Australia. So there were some actually British Ai, like like, nuclear stuff going on. It was mostly, like, I think, missile testing.
Speaker: 1
01:05:40
But there are reasons to believe that maybe he started to get interested in UFOs to begin with. And so he looked into US efforts into, you know, UFO research, but also specifically anti gravity. And he talks about how after a little bit of investigation, US efforts into anti gravity are far deeper than Meh the Eye.
Speaker: 1
01:06:00
In Blue Book, this front facing PR campaign that’s part of the Air Force is total BS. And it’s meant to, you know, stigmatize UFOs and and throw people off the trail. And it’s actually, you know, this now declassified document around the Robert the Robertson memo, which is around this Robertson panel, that kind of created the constitution for for Blue Book, all shows that this was the case with Blue Book.
Speaker: 1
01:06:23
He says, actually, there were secret anti gravity programs going on at the time, and they involved and he lists names, Oppenheimer, Freeman Dyson, John Wheeler, and Edward Teller. He lists all these names. The head head of the, you know, nuclear program in Australia. And so then you have to ask the question, okay.
Speaker: 1
01:06:42
So you have this, like, official government document saying this stuff. Like, does this line up with any artifacts at the time? Well, actually, in 1956, there’s an article, in Young Men’s Magazine, this kind of aviation hobbyist journal, journal by a guy named Michael Gladich.
Speaker: 1
01:06:56
And he is quoting all of the industry experts. You know? Bill Lear is quoted, who we talked about. Who else is quoted? George Trimble, who’s a VP at Martin Corporation, their RIAS, their anti gravity research program.
Speaker: 1
01:07:12
He says, anti gravity research is, you know, we’re gonna we’re, we’re gonna figure this out in in just amount in just the same amount of time that it took to figure out the atom bomb. Like, it’s it’s right around the bend sort of thing. You had, the patron of of, Bell Aircraft.
Speaker: 1
01:07:29
They had just broken the sound barrier with the with the x one nineteen forty seven. So there you go.
Speaker: 0
01:07:33
Michael Gladach. The g engines are coming. Yeah. Woah. Woah. By far, the most potent source of energy is gravity. Using it as power, future aircraft will attain the speed of light. Holy shit.
Speaker: 1
01:07:49
And and, Bell says, like, you know, we’re experimenting with nuclear fuels to cancel out gravity. Richard Arnowitt and Stanley Desser
Speaker: 0
01:07:58
They have a diagram of how it would work. It’s wild. Protective boundary layer Yep. Cabin, electronic rockets, gravity generator. They talk about,
Speaker: 1
01:08:06
gravity particles. Stanley Desser and Richard Arnowitt at Princeton are studying this. So what do
Speaker: 0
01:08:12
you think was going on?
Speaker: 1
01:08:14
I think they were deeply investigating antigravity. I mean, they’re they’re But
Speaker: 0
01:08:17
do you think they had a working model?
Speaker: 1
01:08:20
I think they had an effect called the Ai Brown effect that showed that you could couple electromagnetism and gravity at a base level, and you could do it in a vacuum, which rules out ionized air as the possible reason for threat. So I’ll I’ll back up, and I’ll just give you what the experiment is.
Speaker: 2
01:08:39
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:08:39
So it’s you take a capacitor. Right? And so a capacitor is a a positive electrode and a negative electrode. It’s an asymmetric capacitor. So the negative electrode is bigger than the positive capacitor. And the two are, in between the two is, an insulator called the high k dielectric.
Speaker: 1
01:08:58
So it’s a material that stores a lot of, electromagnetic charge. You pump the entire thing with high voltage and low current electricity, and Brown used to do it with, DC, direct current pulses. And you see thrust going from, the negative to the positive. And if you do that in air, then you can always say that it’s ionized air because ions are being produced, and then you get this equal and opposite reaction with the wind, and then you get this thrust.
Speaker: 1
01:09:31
Right? So that’s not breaking physics. If you do this in a, depressurized vacuum chamber, where there basically is no air to to to to, you know, create this kind of equal and opposite force for the thrust, then you are breaking physics as we know it. There are other things that break physics as we know it. You had Sonny White on.
Speaker: 1
01:09:51
He talked about, like, the the Casimir effect, you know, which is a a real effect that involves not charged but conductive plates that are very close to each other that seem to attract. There’s the bow the Aronoff Bohm effect, which might be explained by the electromagnetic four potential.
Speaker: 1
01:10:08
There are other effects in physics where you don’t you can’t quite explain it in the current model, but they are harbingers, if you will, of the next paradigm. I believe that when you find an anomaly, it is pointing towards the next scientific paradigm. Black body radiation is a great example.
Speaker: 1
01:10:25
It was discovered in the eighteen seventies by a guy named Gustav Kirchhoff. We could not explain it until the quantum revolution with Max Planck, where he, you know, actually discovered quanta. The orbit of Mercury is another good example where we didn’t understand you know, we couldn’t calculate, Mercury’s orbit until we had space time curvature in Einstein.
Speaker: 1
01:10:46
So Newton didn’t quite explain it. So my belief is the the Ai Brown effect is an anomaly that seemed to ostensibly, visually, unify the field, or it’s pointing towards something else, gravitational shielding, or it’s pointing towards how put off stuff around, you know, quantum vacuum fluctuations.
Speaker: 1
01:11:04
I don’t know. I don’t have a great, theory for how it works. I don’t think Brown had an amazing theory for how it works. But it’s an effect that I think creates this tech tree of exotic electromagnetic propulsion that leads us to today. It’s an effect that’s not supposed to happen.
Speaker: 0
01:11:23
And this what is this, Jamie?
Speaker: 3
01:11:26
Is that it?
Speaker: 1
01:11:27
The bifurcrown That that is
Speaker: 0
01:11:29
a thruster in a vacuum chamber.
Speaker: 1
01:11:30
That that’s a that’s a lateral propeller version of it. And you don’t have to listen to me, by the way. The lead electrostatics guy at NASA is a guy named Charles Buehler. He’s been doing this for twenty years, and he’s had axe he’s at vatsal, Kennedy Space Center. He is the lead they use electrostatics to, like, clean dust off the, you know, lunar lander or whatever because those particles are actually charged.
Speaker: 1
01:11:52
And, super he’s the most senior guy in electrostatics. And he sai, this is not a conventional electrostatic force, and he attributes his work to Townsend Brown. I could show you in an interview. He’s he literally says, Townsend Brown was, like, the first guy to discover this. He he he’s updated it a bit.
Speaker: 1
01:12:09
He says that, it’s not just sheer voltage. You don’t need to use mega voltage. And, actually, electric field strength is the most important thing. So we use kilovolts, and he amps up the electric field strength in order to get more thrust. But But he has a whole company around this.
Speaker: 1
01:12:23
It’s called Exodus Space. So, like, you don’t have to list another another very, you know, credentialed person if we’re if we’re on that, a guy named Carl Nell, who Ai have reason to believe that some of Brown’s work made it into the b two stealth bomber. I don’t think it’s the anti gravity part. It’s a part called ai that made it into the b two stealth bomber.
Speaker: 1
01:12:44
But the point is Ai interviewed a guy who was the deputy CTO of Northrop Grumman, and he also was the army representative of the UAP task force along with David Grush where they were investigating UFOs. And he says I I was in a room, you know, filled with venture capitalists and entrepreneurs. I was like, Carl, these people want actionable stuff.
Speaker: 1
01:13:04
Like, can you actually make progress with any of this UFO stuff? Or is it all, like, kind of meh physical, you know, and, like, kind of, not even wrong as Feynman would sai? And he goes, well, if you want, you know, some actionable stuff, go watch Jesse’s video on Thomas Townsend Brown.
Speaker: 1
01:13:19
And so, like, I’ve gotten this time and time again where I’ve had all these private experiences about you know, with Bryden where I’m like, is anybody seeing this? Like, this is crazy. And it’s, you know, I don’t know. It’s it’s weird.
Speaker: 0
01:13:34
Let’s take this back to when was Brown conducting these experience experiments initially? Yeah. What year was this?
Speaker: 1
01:13:42
The early twenties. So, like, 1923, ’20 ‘4 range. Woah. He was a child prodigy. So their newspaper Clement, he was from Zanesville, Ohio. He was born in nineteen o five. In 1915, he was, you know, caught in the garden or whatever using charged rods to get worms to ascend to the top of the soil.
Speaker: 1
01:14:01
Then at age 12, he the World War government under Woodrow Wilson, it was probably the local government, told him to take down a wireless transmitter that he had created, an antenna that he had created, like this walkie talkie system that he had developed at the time. And there there’s newspaper clippings talking about this at the time that, like, totally corroborate this. He then goes to Caltech.
Speaker: 1
01:14:22
He studies under a guy named Robert Milliken, who’s actually a really well respected physicist who was helped develop Einstein’s photoelectric effect or actually, you know, demonstrated experimentally. Milliken doesn’t really give him the time of day on on the ai Bryden effect. And the way he discovered the effect is actually he was using, Coolidge X-ray tubes.
Speaker: 1
01:14:44
So these are really early X-ray tubes, and they have every X-ray tube has or every Coolidge tube has, a cathode and an anode, so a negative and a positive electrode. And he would pump it full of, you know, high voltage electricity, and the wire would jump. And then he would he would actually he put it in a fixed chassis, and it would keep jumping.
Speaker: 1
01:15:04
And then he would suspend it from, you know, the ceiling, and it would keep jumping. And he was like, what’s going on? Like, this isn’t supposed to happen. And there are ways to, again, explain that away via traditional electrostatics. So he later got the idea to do this in a vacuum chamber and really prove it.
Speaker: 1
01:15:18
But after Caltech, he then goes to Denison University where he studies under a guy named Paul Alfred Byfield. And Denison University, for the longest time, has denied that relationship, and now they’re admitting it, which is I find really funny. The the ai is there is now admitting it. There is an affidavit, from the Navy sai where Paul Alfred Byfield signs a a letter saying, I witnessed this effect.
Speaker: 1
01:15:42
It’s an anomalous effect. From there, he goes on, and it’s witnessed by a guy named Victor Bertrandius, who’s at the ai Paterson ai Airfield at the time ai test division. He’s working with colonel Albert Boyd, on all the, you know, crazy flight tests. In 1952, he says, believe it or not, I saw a model of a flying saucer, and I was frightened.
Speaker: 1
01:16:01
And I’m frightened for it getting out because and I’m paraphrasing a little bit, because I believe it’s in the stage of early atomic development, and that’s ai 1952. He then shows a a a fan precipitator experiment, which really shows the electro ai effect, which is similar but not the same as the the electromagnetism gravity thing, to Edward Teller, the father of the h bomb.
Speaker: 1
01:16:26
And Edward Teller himself says, I don’t know how this works. And then his wife turns to Townsend Brown’s daughter. And I have this, by the way, on a phone call where with Townsend Brown’s daughter who’s saying this all happened, turns to to, to her, and she says, I’ve never heard him say that because he’s such a genius.
Speaker: 1
01:16:43
I mean, he’s a Hungarian brilliant, you know, father of the Hmong. And so you have all these interesting eyewitnesses. Ed, Brown was, an associate of Bill Lear. You have video of Bill Lear and Townshend Bryden together in a lab, in the Bateson Lab in North Carolina together.
Speaker: 1
01:17:01
In fact, there’s a Chapel Hill conference in 1957, which is basically creates quantum gravity of which the offshoot is string theory. And, actually, Eric Weinstein talked about it on your show. And it’s at the Institute of Field Physics in North Carolina, Chapel Hill. They are funding Brown’s work in the backroom, and there is video of Brown working on his experiments, working under Agnew Bryden.
Speaker: 1
01:17:25
And in that 1971 Australian intelligence memo, you have all these outposts of anti gravity research. University of North Carolina is one of those outposts. It’s crazy. And sai the CIA’s Office of Scientific Intelligence is coordinating all of this stuff. The president of University of North Carolina in the fifties around this time is a guy named Gordon Gray, who’s a super spooky guy who is he, he he he he, revoked, Oppenheimer’s queue clearance.
Speaker: 1
01:17:54
And, he’s also implicated in these sort of MJ 12 documents, which I don’t necessarily wanna mush in with Brown. It has to be viewed through that sort of passage material, like, limited hangout lens. But Gordon Gray is this very interesting character. The point is that the people who were sending physics down the wrong path with the Chapel Hill conference and this is a conference in 1957 that convinced the top theoretical physicists in the world, Freeman Dyson, Peter Bryden, Feynman was there, John Wheeler was there, Bryce DeWitt, all these people.
Speaker: 1
01:18:23
At the same time, they were funding in the backroom this kind of zany inventor, Townsend Brown, who is performing these experiments in vacuum chambers. And there’s video of him popping champagne where it’s ai, why are you popping champagne? Probably because you got a successful experiment.
Speaker: 1
01:18:40
That was the second time he had he had, tested this in a vacuum. So, again, it’s it’s reduced it’s eliminating this sort of ionized wind effect. Before that a year before that, in Paris at the Montgolfier facilities, he performed this in a vacuum. And this guy named Jacques Corneon was this.
Speaker: 1
01:18:59
He died in 02/2009, but Townsend Brown’s biographer has him on record in a in a phone call that is recorded saying the tests were very tricky, but in the end, we got it to work. And he’s on his deathbed, and he’s saying all of this. And you have a 20 page a 25 page report for the Montgolfier project.
Speaker: 1
01:19:17
And when Brown comes back to the to America, he’s picked up, according to his daughter, Linda, by a guy named Robert Sarbacher, who runs ramp I mean, there’s so many Saarbacher stories when it comes to UFOs. He says that UFOs are classified at two points higher than the h bomb.
Speaker: 1
01:19:31
He’s talking to this guy, Wilbert Smith, who’s this, magnetics expert in in in Canada about their experimentations via you know, with UFOs. And so he’s the guy that picks up and he’s head of Washington National Labs and running research and development for Vannevar Bush at the time.
Speaker: 1
01:19:45
And he’s the guy who picks up Brown where it’s like, okay. We’ve we’ve gotta take this seriously because you’ve got it to work in a vacuum.
Speaker: 0
01:19:52
The idea that they’ve kept all this secret for all these years seems impossible.
Speaker: 1
01:19:58
I don’t think it is. To
Speaker: 0
01:19:59
me. Yeah. Sure. Ai mean, I I’m sure it’s not.
Speaker: 2
01:20:02
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:20:02
But you know what I mean? But from my limited understanding of how things work and secretive government projects, that they could have a gravity propulsion system in place for decades.
Speaker: 1
01:20:15
Yeah. It seems crazy to me, but he had something Brown had something called his wounded prairie chicken routine, which is basically showing people something called it was basically the electro hydrodynamic effect, which is not the electro gravitic effect. So these are two very different things. One is coupling again electromagnetism and gravity somehow or creating some gravity shielding or whatever. You can do this in a vacuum.
Speaker: 1
01:20:39
And then the other thing is what you could see on YouTube videos, which is associated with Townsend Brown, where you have, basically, these balsa wood structures. You have tinfoil at the bottom, and you have a copper wire at the top. The copper wire is the positive electrode. The tinfoil is the negative electrode.
Speaker: 1
01:20:59
The copper wire is producing ions, which is creating thrust because those neutral ions are bombarding the wind, which is creating thrust in in a certain direction. So that is an experiment that is 95% similar to the electrogravitic thing. It it wears the mantle of being electrogravitic, but it’s actually using this other principle that you can just describe using normal physics and, you know, Newton’s laws.
Speaker: 0
01:21:22
Well, what about material science? Like, what about the actual structure itself? You know, because this is where it gets really weird. Right? Yeah. These nano layers of whatever the material is that’s being used? What what was the Is it bismuth? Bismuth.
Speaker: 1
01:21:42
Yeah. This is what’s crazy. So magnesium bismuth shows up a lot. It shows up in Thomas Townsend Brown’s Winter Haven proposal in 1954 where he’s describing these electro gravitic effects because it’s a high k dielectric. It stores a lot of electromagnetic charge. But it also shows up there’s actually an interview with Lewis Whitten, who’s the father of Ed Whitten, who’s this master string theorist that Eric Ai says is the Michael Jordan of physics, you know, on your show.
Speaker: 2
01:22:08
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:22:08
And, he Lewis Whitten says there’s a guy named Townsend who discovered an isotope of of of bismuth that would repel instead of attracting. Who’s named Townsend at that time? It’s clear he’s talking about Townsend Brown. If you actually look at Gary Nolan’s samples that he ai, Gary Nolan is, you know, a a a PhD at Stanford.
Speaker: 1
01:22:28
He’s a tenured professor, and, he he is, you know, speak out multiple 9 figure companies in biotechnology. Really smart guy. He runs the Seoul Foundation. They’re studying sort of, you know, nonhuman intelligence. He has these samples, various samples of different crash materials that he’s gotten from Jacques Vallee, who’ve you’ve had on as the French godfather of ufology, who you know, his address is posted online.
Speaker: 1
01:22:51
If you see a crash, you send it to Jacques. Jacques, you know, sends a lot of his materials to Gary. One of the materials is magnesium bismuth. And this was apparently I I believe this was the material that they found around the Roswell crash, I think. And magnesium bismuth is a high k dielectric, and it’s it’s over and over again, it’s mentioned by Thomas Townsend Brown.
Speaker: 1
01:23:16
So you have this this weird thing around the material that creates more thrust via these anti gravity experiments is also showing up in UFO lore.
Speaker: 0
01:23:25
Do do you explore the possibility the Roswell crash was not of from another world?
Speaker: 1
01:23:31
That’s where it gets weird, man, because that was early. That was July of nineteen forty seven.
Speaker: 0
01:23:36
Right. Like, so the bismuth thing, like and when when you’re talking about the way this stuff is layered, that’s where it gets really weird. Right?
Speaker: 1
01:23:43
That’s where it’s it’s it’s layered thinner than a, you know, a a it’s, like, micron layered, like, thinner than human hairs. I think the Hal put off quote on this. And I don’t know the provenance on that. And I don’t know you know, per games being played in this space, I don’t know if that actually came from the Roswell crash.
Speaker: 1
01:23:59
It was,
Speaker: 0
01:24:00
like Ai it didn’t come from the Roswell crash, it like, let’s imagine, is it possible to make that stuff today and with those layers?
Speaker: 1
01:24:11
Hal Puthoff would say no, and it’s probably beyond my material science knowledge. But Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. People who are very smart on this subject, like Hal and Gary, who I speak to, you know, at a decent frequency, say no.
Speaker: 0
01:24:23
Okay. So if they say no, maybe they’re wrong. Maybe there is a lab somewhere that can recreate it. But could they recreate it at scale? Like, could they three d print that to something that you could actually get people inside and fly around? And then, could that have been done in 1947?
Speaker: 0
01:24:39
That’s where it gets super fucking weird.
Speaker: 1
01:24:42
It gets super weird.
Speaker: 0
01:24:43
Because you you you know, there’s some leaps. Right? Okay. We had the the h bomb, you know, we had we had atomic energy. We we had a lot of stuff back then. They split the atom. There’s some really incredible advances. I don’t believe we
Speaker: 1
01:24:54
had anti gravity. That I like, if I track Brown’s stuff at the time, which I think, you know, he was kind of the tip of the spear on this stuff, he was using these capacitor models and trying to get that experimentally proven and and sometimes being thwarted via, like, you know, mainstream academic circles at that time.
Speaker: 1
01:25:12
Like, the the the Chapel Hill conference was much later, and that’s where he’s, like, kind of officially proving this stuff in the US government context in 1957. So I do not believe that the Roswell crash is easily explained by an anti early anti Kelly Goddard, who is a father of American rocketry, was doing rocket testing at around Roswell at the time.
Speaker: 1
01:25:34
Like, it like and so that’s, like, total chemical combustion. You had v twos at the time where, you know, that was top of the line.
Speaker: 0
01:25:40
Opens up the door to the possibility of back engineering.
Speaker: 1
01:25:43
Absolutely.
Speaker: 0
01:25:45
Which is where it gets really weird. So now it’s we’re not dealing with hidden science. We’re not dealing with top secret, compartmentalized, like, you know, need to know, everything’s pushed away into Skunk Works and wherever the fuck it’s done. You’re talking about something that’s not from here.
Speaker: 1
01:26:00
Well, it’s interesting you sai back engineering. In 1949, there is a contract that anybody can look up, I put it on the doc, Jamie, between Wright Patterson it was Wright Airfield at the time and Battelle Memorial Institute. And you have James’ eyes light up. And you gotta shout out Columbus, Ohio.
Speaker: 0
01:26:19
All roads lead to Ohio. Right? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:26:21
And you have all these, titanium alloys. And one of them is called nitinol, which is a nickel titanium alloy.
Speaker: 0
01:26:30
So this is 49.
Speaker: 1
01:26:31
This is 1949. And so if you have, you know, army intelligence officer, you know, Jesse Marcel says that he picks up the the crash material. And he says that it was ai this meh vatsal, memory metal thing that you would kind of, you know, mess with it, and it would go back into its original form.
Speaker: 1
01:26:50
Right? It was like this kind of, like, tinfoil like thing. And so nitinol was found at a navy lab in the sixties. That was when it was actually fully published. But you have this contract between Wright Wright Airfield and Battelle Memorial Institute where you have nitinol in as one of the metal metals that they’re testing.
Speaker: 1
01:27:09
Not only that ai. In 2012, they FOIA they used the Freedom of Information Act to figure out that a guy named Elroy John Center, EJ Center, was one of the coauthors of that paper. Elroy John Center died, I think, in 1991. Before that, he had told two MUFON UFO researchers, Nick Nickerson and Irene Scott, and they presented this at MUFON in Ohio in 1992.
Speaker: 1
01:27:36
They said this guy was this metallurgist. He worked at Patel. Again, he’s been foiled as part of this paper. And he says, I, worked on alien material and that there were weird hieroglyphics on it And that I had to I had to, ai, you know, I was I was I was a he was a chemist, and so he had to look at, like, metal impurities, but he was also, meant to decipher the the, you know, hieroglyphics on it or whatever.
Speaker: 1
01:28:04
And so I don’t know. Was Nitinol maybe just inspired by the stuff that Marcel recovered? Because, obviously, the rumors are that the Roswell crash wreckage ended up at Ai Airfield, or was it, you know, this one to one thing? And EJ Center is at the center of it, no pun intended, where he’s foiled in 2012, and he says he has these u f he’s he’s looking at UFO material, and he’s on record working at Patel.
Speaker: 1
01:28:26
You can look that up.
Speaker: 0
01:28:28
Well, not only is there record that the Roswell Crash was brought to Ai Mhmm. But that it was brought in two separate jets in case it crashed. Mhmm. And that Truman met them there.
Speaker: 1
01:28:40
Yep. I don’t I don’t know if that’s true.
Speaker: 2
01:28:43
I need to know that.
Speaker: 0
01:28:44
I wanna see a photo of the fucking hieroglyphs.
Speaker: 1
01:28:47
I know.
Speaker: 0
01:28:48
Could you imagine the glimpse at alien writing?
Speaker: 1
01:28:50
Do you think that would be amazing. Do you think you have a better chance now than ever at being because you interviewed Trump. Would Trump let you be the disclosure ai? And I could be the water boy on the side making sure that the PH address possible.
Speaker: 0
01:29:07
I don’t think they tell Trump shit. I think they they would withhold that from him. Why would you tell that guy? Yeah. Well I mean, that ai a substitute teacher as far as the government’s concerned. I mean, he’s doing a lot of wild stuff in terms of, like, you know, withholding funding for Harvard and all these different things and the border stuff and the Ai stuff.
Speaker: 0
01:29:26
There’s a lot of stuff that I think are that is allowed to go on, but I think if you get to the highest levels of technological sophistication, black budget stuff that has been kept under wraps for fucking decades, you think they’re gonna tell the guy who is the host of The Apprentice?
Speaker: 0
01:29:44
I don’t think they tyler him because they think he’s only in there for four years.
Speaker: 1
01:29:48
Probably not with two caveats. One is his sana, Don Junior, interviewed him and said, what do you think happened at Roswell? And he said, well, I think there’s something very interesting that might ai happened. Tyler says. And he says on your show too.
Speaker: 0
01:30:01
He doesn’t spill the beans at all. But, I mean, maybe he doesn’t spill the beans because he doesn’t know where the beans are.
Speaker: 1
01:30:06
Right. Maybe he’s looking for more of a speak gut. Like, he needs to know more.
Speaker: 0
01:30:10
Is that really his primary concern? He’s a 78 year old man who doesn’t do drugs. Like, is you know, he said no psychedelic experiences. Maybe he’s not even interested in this concept.
Speaker: 1
01:30:23
I think about that sometimes with people on the hill that I speak to where I’m like, can you just, like I’m giving you all this info. Can you think
Speaker: 0
01:30:30
outside the box?
Speaker: 1
01:30:31
Figure it out, and they they don’t compute it. Right. There’s some there’s a a person who like, you’re the archetype of this who’s, like, so fascinated by it. Right. And then there is a person who goes, but I gotta pay taxes, dude.
Speaker: 2
01:30:44
Yeah. They have to
Speaker: 0
01:30:45
get reelected. They’re super busy. Yeah. You you’d have to find someone whose primary concern is vatsal, and that bug has to bite you. It has to bite you. To get infected with UFO Lyme disease. If you if you don’t, you’re not gonna want to release all this stuff, and I don’t think Trump is infected.
Speaker: 0
01:31:02
I mean, I think his even the way he describes these things is very different than the way he describes other things. Like, he famously was talking to Steve Hilton, and, it was one of the few times in history that a sitting president has mentioned the military industrial complex wanting to go to war.
Speaker: 0
01:31:23
These guys wanna go to war. And he was saying that in that interview, and I remember thinking, like, wow, that is wild To hear him say to a guy on Fox News that there’s factions in this incredibly dense complex of corporations and defense contractors, and there’s insane amounts of money involved.
Speaker: 0
01:31:45
And these guys wanna go to war. And he was saying that in that interview. And I’m like, this is I mean, this is what Eisenhower said when he was leaving office.
Speaker: 1
01:31:53
Straight up.
Speaker: 0
01:31:54
Yeah. Straight up.
Speaker: 1
01:31:55
There’s sai there’s a straight line between then and now, and it feels like it’s hitting this apex where we’re involved in it. It’s like you had the civil war, you know, 1861. Now we have, like, a deep state war going on Yeah. Where it’s ai, Tulsi’s going in there as an outsider and this, like, light warrior, and she’s being, like, red teamed and attacked, and she doesn’t know who’s on her side.
Speaker: 1
01:32:16
Yeah. It’s crazy.
Speaker: 0
01:32:18
Yeah. It’s it’s pretty wild. It’s pretty wild how nothing gets done. And, you know, and it’s set up so nothing gets done. But my point is that Ram, his response to that is an informed response. Like, there’s there’s this military industrial complex. These people wanna go to war.
Speaker: 0
01:32:34
He doesn’t talk about this UAP thing that
Speaker: 3
01:32:36
way. Right.
Speaker: 0
01:32:37
It’s like, I’ve seen some things. Crazy things.
Speaker: 5
01:32:41
What is
Speaker: 0
01:32:41
that what are you saying? Like, what be specific.
Speaker: 1
01:32:43
You got handsome pilots.
Speaker: 0
01:32:45
They you
Speaker: 1
01:32:45
know, crew cuts like you. They look nice.
Speaker: 0
01:32:47
Good guys, nice guys, good Americans. Like, what what what do you know?
Speaker: 1
01:32:51
Didn’t he say something on your podcast about men from Mars or something? He goes, the the people from Mars or something. I don’t he it’s hard with him because he speaks in this sing songy, oversimplified way.
Speaker: 0
01:33:04
And he rants.
Speaker: 1
01:33:05
And he rants.
Speaker: 0
01:33:05
And he well, he’s got a strong rant muscle. Right? Because he does these stadium tours where he goes to these enormous places and he basically just works without a script. So it’s like ai got a rant muscle. There’s a few people like Tim Dillon is the best comedian who has a rant muscle.
Speaker: 1
01:33:19
Sounds good.
Speaker: 0
01:33:20
He just can rant. He just, like, get a microphone in front of him and a subject and he knows what to say. Ram has that muscle. He’s developed that muscle over all these years of campaigning. And sai, it’s really hard to interview him because he just essentially turns on that ramp muscle when their mic’s on and you gotta, like, interject, like, hold on. Okay.
Speaker: 0
01:33:38
But what are you saying? Like, what do you know? Like, what do you know? Like, will you release this information? Like, what what if you found out that for sure we have been visited and that we are in possession of crashed UFOs that were not made by China, they were not made by Russia, they’re not made by America, they’re from another civilization that we don’t understand, would you tell us?
Speaker: 1
01:34:05
What what do you think he would say?
Speaker: 0
01:34:07
There’s a lot of information. I don’t know if I could release it. I don’t know if they’d let me. You know, like, I don’t know what holds it back.
Speaker: 1
01:34:16
I wanna know if he’s in it. Like Did you see Age of the Disclosure? I didn’t, actually.
Speaker: 0
01:34:20
You should. It’s really good. I I mean, I I don’t know how you would see it right now, because it’s not released yet. And I don’t know what they’re doing as far as getting it released. But
Speaker: 1
01:34:28
Did you come out believing more and more skeptical? What was your
Speaker: 0
01:34:32
Both. Both. With, like, with all of it. Mhmm. I think some some is bullshit. Some of it is misinformation. Some of it is they’re releasing this slow trickle. Like, if it all is real, I think the strategy is to slowly get us accustomed to the concept, just the idea that we’re not saloni.
Speaker: 0
01:34:54
And just get it in there. Okay. First step, first shot across the bow, 02/2017, New York Times. New York Times says, not of this world. Oh, my God.
Speaker: 0
01:35:05
You know, you see the the pictures of the gimbal and the go fast and you’re like, okay. Alright. Now, we’re talking. But that’s eight fucking years ago. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:35:13
Nothing real significant in eight years. And so, then you have ai, you have these, you know, different pilots, Commander Fravor. He comes out, he does podcasts. You have Ryan Graves. He comes down and does podcasts. You know, you have Lou Elizondo. Everybody’s talking. No one’s showing you shit. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:35:33
Do you have Tyler, who you had on your show?
Speaker: 1
01:35:35
I had Fowler.
Speaker: 0
01:35:36
What did you think of him?
Speaker: 1
01:35:38
I thought that, ai they’ve got a show data. They have on their website, like, a container for the data. They haven’t populated it yet. I wanna see the data, and I wanna see, ai who they don’t have to be a debunker or a skeptic, but they have to kinda go in being ai, I don’t know what UFOs are.
Speaker: 1
01:35:55
Are. Like, I don’t know anything about this stuff.
Speaker: 0
01:35:57
What is this?
Speaker: 1
01:35:58
And, like, vetting it. Mhmm. Now being as deep as I am in UFO research where, like, I know there’s a nuclear connection. There’s a great book by a guy named Robert Hastings called u UFOs and Nukes, and it’s, like, 600 pages. And it is a 67 queue cleared ICBM security personnel, radar operators, employees at nuclear bases where they’re saying they see Tic Tacs, orbs, saucers, all sorts of stuff flying around our nuclear ai, often disarming the nukes.
Speaker: 1
01:36:26
And so it’s always tough to answer that question where you’re like, what do you think of Sky Watcher? I’m like, if I don’t have that ontology where, like, UFOs are showing up around nukes constantly, which Ai I’m deep in this, and they they do. They show up all around the world. There’s a a town in Japan called Eno, which is next to the Fukushima Prefecture.
Speaker: 1
01:36:45
Fukushima is famous for its civilian nuclear grid, which was built in the nineteen seventies. It have a it has a museum dedicated to UFOs in the nineties that they built. Everybody there is obsessed with UFOs. Ai did a documentary in twenty twenty twenty twenty two because they are obsessed with the with UFOs.
Speaker: 1
01:36:58
There are geomagnetic anomalies they found all over this mountain, Sengon Mori there, and there are UFO researchers there. And, like, everybody in that town believes in UFOs. Bara Loke, Argentina 1995. You have a commercial they they’re famous for, again, civilian nuclear grid. Commercial pilot at Aerolineas Argentinis or whatever. Famous UFO sighting.
Speaker: 1
01:37:21
It it it shuts down the power at the airport, and the thing has the the the the plane can’t land. And then it goes around in a circle, and there are people on the on the flight who are have been interviewed. It’s on a, you know, the YouTube video. It’s pretty simple and easy to digest. Even Roswell, Nineteen Forty Seven, the largest stockpile of American nuclear weapons to date at that time, 1947.
Speaker: 1
01:37:42
Sai there are all these declassified documents. In 1949, there’s a a an emergency meeting, declassified air force document meh that is verified between Air Force Office of Special Investigations, arya counterintelligence, army CIC, FBI, Office of Naval Intelligence. All these guys are emergency meeting because they’re freaked out at how much UFOs are showing up around nuclear sites across The US.
Speaker: 1
01:38:05
In 1952, there’s a Look Magazine article where captain Edward j Ruppelt, who’s kind of marginalized pre Blue Book really taking off with Jalen Ai, who I think was basically a Disinfo agent, where he’s I do. Yeah. And he’s claimed to have, like, gotten better and kind of be you know, like, like, I I he admitted his part in the cover up, but then I think he kept going on with some some Interesting.
Speaker: 1
01:38:26
Fuckery. Yeah.
Speaker: 5
01:38:27
Oh.
Speaker: 1
01:38:28
Yeah. So there’s Sorry. So so if you don’t have that ontology, there’s even there’s, Vatsal Alexeyev is a a Russian general. And in a, German magazine from February, he’s interviewed. And he talks about how UFOs show up at the forefront of human ingenuity and advancement. And when we transport certain material, the UFOs show up.
Speaker: 1
01:38:51
In chapter nine of the Invisible College by Ai Vallee, he talks about the UFOs being this sort of autonomous control system. And when we you know, it’s like a a node lights up. Like, when we engage in super advanced research or something, he talks about ways to interfere with the control system, but that are very dangerous.
Speaker: 1
01:39:10
So if you don’t have that ontology, like, yeah, me saying, like, these dudes are out with their mobile construction unit, like, in the desert, like, you know, getting stuff to show up, you’re gonna meh, like, that’s a fucking ai balloon. I’m sorry. Right. But because you if you have that if you accept that dataset and don’t just dismiss it ai of firsthand, I do think they can get stuff to show up.
Speaker: 1
01:39:31
What they’re getting to show up, I don’t know. Can they get it to land? I don’t know. They’re you know, I think Can you
Speaker: 0
01:39:37
explain how they’re getting this stuff to show up? What signals are they putting out there that represent something to these supposedly something to these UAPs?
Speaker: 1
01:39:45
Unfortunately, they kind of black box it. And so I have to assume it’s either nuclear. They do say that they have a dog whistle, which is a certain frequency. There is a frequency floating around online that somebody claims to have docked that might be their thing, but I don’t wanna say that that’s definitely their thing.
Speaker: 1
01:40:00
So there are But the idea is they call them. They call them.
Speaker: 0
01:40:03
They they use something to send a signal out there, and then these crafts respond. Is it a % of the time?
Speaker: 1
01:40:10
They say that the dog whistle works a % of the time. And they have a combination of mechanical means of attracting UFOs and of, this is really weird, but humans trying to call in the UFOs. I’ve heard that before. Right? Yeah. C e five is sort of a common
Speaker: 3
01:40:25
posted on our show, I don’t think, but is that what we’re talking about? I don’t wanna make it.
Speaker: 1
01:40:29
That might be yeah. 2.5 k. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:40:31
What do you not wanna make, Jake? Ai don’t know.
Speaker: 3
01:40:32
Do you want me to show this or not? I don’t know. If you’re saying it’s bad, I don’t wanna give it
Speaker: 1
01:40:36
No. I’m not saying that.
Speaker: 0
01:40:37
I Ai don’t think It sounds like it’s on. Ai?
Speaker: 2
01:40:39
Sai don’t think find
Speaker: 0
01:40:41
it on their own then.
Speaker: 1
01:40:41
I don’t think Sky Watcher would, like, say that that’s definitely, you know, endorse that as their thing, but it because they kinda black box it, but that could be. That could be real.
Speaker: 0
01:40:50
Want to know how to make the dog whistle for summoning UAP. Here’s how. Super easy. What’s the signal, 7.83 hertz carrier via modulated 100 hertz bass tone Schumann Resonance. Do you understand any of this? Me? Yeah. Do you know what
Speaker: 1
01:41:07
they’re saying? Well, Schumann resonance is the ai of, you know, electromagnetic frequency of the Earth itself. And so Ai I don’t know what that means, modulated via
Speaker: 0
01:41:16
What is this five twenty eight hertz harmonic spiritual frequency? What is that?
Speaker: 3
01:41:20
That’s the lowest tone.
Speaker: 1
01:41:21
I don’t know.
Speaker: 0
01:41:22
Is that what it is, Jamie?
Speaker: 3
01:41:23
I I just know the numbers. So, like, when you get up to 17 k, that’s, like, that’s a ai. That’s a real high pitch, like,
Speaker: 2
01:41:29
weee, like
Speaker: 0
01:41:30
Oh, and the high numbers like that are low?
Speaker: 3
01:41:32
Yeah. And then low is oh, so it’s just a that’s thousand and then not thousand. So 20 hertz is as low as you can hear. That’s like a low bass sound. Sai I guess there’s being generated out of some sort of machine, which doesn’t say here on what you need to generate it. But I don’t know if you just play it on a piano
Speaker: 0
01:41:46
or anything, you know. Interesting. And then organic, 2.5 hertz chirps every ten saloni, like creature calls, giving you it unique signature.
Speaker: 1
01:41:56
Ai don’t know where he would get this. Used to be a coupe.
Speaker: 0
01:41:59
That’s
Speaker: 2
01:41:59
right. Used
Speaker: 0
01:42:00
to be a coupe. There’s sai many coupe
Speaker: 2
01:42:02
out there.
Speaker: 1
01:42:02
There are a lot.
Speaker: 0
01:42:03
Boy, there’s so many kooks. There’s so many kooks. There. Kooks and grifters infiltrated.
Speaker: 1
01:42:09
It’s every sai my my contrarian take about UFOs is there are so many kooks and grifters, but there are more people with ulterior motives who are telling partial truth than full kooks and grifters.
Speaker: 0
01:42:24
Yeah. And that
Speaker: 1
01:42:25
makes it so complicated because you’re ai, you’re bad vibes, and you will, like, are doing some controlled opposition thing. But, like, I have to listen to you because you have some interesting info.
Speaker: 0
01:42:34
Right. That’s the problem. That’s
Speaker: 4
01:42:35
the problem.
Speaker: 0
01:42:36
Talking. I’ve had conversations with people like that where I’m talking. I’m like, I think you’re at least partially full of shah, but, like, keep going. Yeah. Tell me more.
Speaker: 1
01:42:43
Yeah. Totally. You’re like, I know there’s some stuff, and then I know there’s some bullshit you’re giving me. And you wanna see if I’ll tell somebody else that bullshit, and then you track it, and, like
Speaker: 0
01:42:51
Right. Right. Right.
Speaker: 1
01:42:52
It’s this weird game.
Speaker: 0
01:42:54
Well, there in the age of disclosure, one of the things they go into is that if these programs have been running and if they have been batch back engineering crafts that are not of this world, there’s a problem with lying to congress because misappropriation of funds so anybody who did that is going to jail. So what they’re calling for is mass amnesty. They’re calling to say, hey, you know, we’ve got to give amnesty to these people that were involved in this program.
Speaker: 0
01:43:24
Otherwise, we’re never gonna learn anything. And then there’s the problem with corporations. So if you give this to Lockheed Martin, you know, what does General Electric think about that? Well, hey, you motherfuckers. How come you didn’t include us? So then they wanna sue.
Speaker: 5
01:43:37
So then
Speaker: 0
01:43:37
they sue the federal government for, you know, whatever interfering with competition.
Speaker: 1
01:43:42
I yes. So there are all those issues. And right now, the UAP disclosure act is up again. It was killed by a guy named Mike Turner who has a bunch of aerospace
Speaker: 0
01:43:51
The fuck, Mike?
Speaker: 1
01:43:52
Mike. Come on, Mike Turner.
Speaker: 0
01:43:53
Come on, Mike.
Speaker: 1
01:43:54
He’s out now.
Speaker: 2
01:43:55
Oh, he’s out.
Speaker: 1
01:43:55
He and guess what? He represented Dayton, Ohio where Wright Patterson Air Force Base is.
Speaker: 2
01:44:02
And Jamie.
Speaker: 1
01:44:04
Sorry, Jamie.
Speaker: 0
01:44:05
Jamie gets so excited when you’d bring up Patel and all the Ohio shit.
Speaker: 1
01:44:10
We’ve gone. The I mean, Patel is very implicated in all this stuff. Ram the forties. From the forties.
Speaker: 5
01:44:16
The the forties.
Speaker: 1
01:44:17
The All Domain Anomalies, resolution office, which is, like, the authoritative office that is, I think, the modern blue book that’s, you know, basically saying, don’t look here. Like, this is all bullshit or whatever. Yeah. Run by a ai named Sean Kirkpatrick. He has all these, like, atomic connections.
Speaker: 1
01:44:31
He, like, worked at Oak Ridge for God’s sake. He the guy that formed, Arrow, upon whose recommendation Arrow was formed is a guy named Ed Moultrie, who is undersecretary of defense for intelligence. And he was on Patel’s board, and he scrubbed that from his LinkedIn. And my good friend, UAP Girb, who has an amazing channel, he’s super deep UFO researcher, showed that this was it was on his resume.
Speaker: 1
01:44:59
And then he recommends this that arrow form. It’s ai the total conflict of interest. It’s insane. It’s insane.
Speaker: 0
01:45:05
Yeah. There’s so many bottlenecks to disclosure, like legal bottlenecks.
Speaker: 1
01:45:10
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:45:12
Especially the misappropriation of funds. Yeah. I mean, how much money was involved? Well, you’re you must be talking about billions and billions and billions of dollars if all these programs are real. So if they’ve been lying to Congress
Speaker: 1
01:45:27
It’s on the order. It has to be on and it’s funny. A lot of modern disclosure talks about Sai and ATIP, these programs from 2007 to 02/2012, kind of under the auspice of Harry Reid.
Speaker: 0
01:45:37
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:45:38
And it that budget was $22,000,000. A single f 35 cost four times that. The b two costs, like, $2,000,000,000. Like, it’s give me a break. The nature of reality, you’re gonna spend $22,000,000 on. So it’s funny how the the whole conversation is on this, like, clearly this thing to, like, get more civilian eyes on the issue, maybe see what they can figure out or whatever.
Speaker: 1
01:46:01
The core program, if there is a core program, which obviously Sai believe there’s a core program, it’s on the order of that speech that you’ve often cited that Donald Rumsfeld made on September 10 Yeah. 02/2001, where he said $2,000,000,000,000 was missing from the Pentagon’s budget.
Speaker: 1
01:46:18
It’s shit like that or this woman named Catherine Austin Fitts who was just on Tucker Carlson, who was, at housing and urban development under, George Bush forty one, where she’s talking about underground tunnel systems and billions of dollars missing in the budget. It is not this little $1,020,000,000
Speaker: 0
01:46:35
dollars talking about a $21,000,000,000,000 breakaway civilization that’s been developed.
Speaker: 1
01:46:39
Yeah. It’s It What? Yeah. And she says it at a moment. First of all, she’s citing Richard Dolan, who Richard Dolan is, like, hardcore UFO researcher, half that interview. And Tucker Carlson doesn’t know who Richard Dolan is, so it’s this funny thing. And then she and then he’s like, where are the funds being used?
Speaker: 1
01:46:54
And she goes, space. And it’s like, the where? It’s not being used. SpaceX is supposed to be the tip of the spear. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:47:00
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:47:00
SpaceX Blue Origin. So, like, what do you mean space?
Speaker: 0
01:47:03
Ai. SpaceX is basically ai those fucking go karts that people send down hills with no engines.
Speaker: 1
01:47:10
Right.
Speaker: 0
01:47:11
You know what I mean?
Speaker: 2
01:47:12
Ai, what
Speaker: 1
01:47:12
are those things called?
Speaker: 0
01:47:13
You know those things when they have races where people they they make their own
Speaker: 2
01:47:17
little Like down the hill there? Derby?
Speaker: 3
01:47:19
No. No. Not the yeah. Yeah. One of the boxes a little bit.
Speaker: 0
01:47:22
Sai boxes.
Speaker: 1
01:47:22
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:47:22
That’s what it’s like. Yeah. That’s what SpaceX says.
Speaker: 1
01:47:25
Yeah. Exactly. Right?
Speaker: 2
01:47:26
If we
Speaker: 1
01:47:27
have any of this shit, that’s what SpaceX is. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:47:29
It’s using really ancient technology to achieve these results.
Speaker: 1
01:47:34
It’s business it’s and I think Elon’s amazing. He’s single handedly resuscitated NASA, but it is a it is an Earth based space company. I think he keeps stuff secret. He does. He absolutely keeps stuff secret.
Speaker: 0
01:47:47
When he tells me there’s no evidence of aliens that like, there’s something about it that just stinks. When he’s saying it, I’m like, okay.
Speaker: 1
01:47:56
So Okay.
Speaker: 0
01:47:58
Ai I’m looking at him. Yeah. Nothing? Yeah. You don’t think nothing?
Speaker: 3
01:48:02
I’ll pop something. I just wanna see if Jesse’s heard of this before. I found stumbled down this when you guys were talking about, some stealth project. This is an article from Wired in 1994. I looked up the guy who wrote it. He’s written a bunch of articles about the black budget back then.
Speaker: 3
01:48:18
And he’s talking about a guy named Steve Douglas who, through monitoring, like, the, sorry, communications, he heard different pilots talking about what probably is the t r three Black Manta. And then it says he’s got a picture of it. I couldn’t find it anywhere online. It’s nothing even close comes up to it.
Speaker: 3
01:48:39
But this says he had a video of it, a picture. I’m assuming some people have seen it because it talks about it. Then it goes into talking more and more about how he how he did this. And he says he’s got files of them talking about all sorts of different planes at night that you were mentioning the Mach six aura when I was, like when when you said that is when I found this on here.
Speaker: 1
01:48:58
That’s fascinating. Even I I haven’t seen it. There’s obviously tons of rumors about the t r three a and the t r three b. The Belgian wave occurred around this time, and it was, like, late eighties, early nineties. I think a lot of the triangle craft that people see are human. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:49:14
Because it’s just it’s a derivative
Speaker: 0
01:49:16
ai stuff. Like, because a lot of people saw it during the Phoenix ai. They saw the triangle craft. Yeah.
Speaker: 3
01:49:20
That’s Kurt
Speaker: 1
01:49:21
Russell was actually flying his way
Speaker: 3
01:49:22
and saw
Speaker: 1
01:49:23
the Phoenix light.
Speaker: 3
01:49:23
This is the one I brought up the other day. They said they think was in Desert Storm, and they just don’t really have
Speaker: 1
01:49:28
That’s wild.
Speaker: 3
01:49:29
Any proof online today. So Wow. The t r three b is the this looks like the triangle thing that everybody’s seen.
Speaker: 0
01:49:35
Yeah. Look. What is the fucking center of it? What is that all about?
Speaker: 3
01:49:38
Well, this is just probably someone made, you know, a photo trying to describe it. But the bottom of it is what everybody sai, You know, this is what
Speaker: 1
01:49:46
So the the t r three series, that was built by Northrop, I believe. Is that right? Like, Aurora was Lockheed, and that was our if you confirm what it looked ai?
Speaker: 3
01:49:54
Did they no one knows. This is ai that no one has any proof of these even existing. All the talk online is back into the nineties of just, like, do these exist? We probably have them. No one knows for sure.
Speaker: 1
01:50:05
So here’s a weird okay. So I think it’s this is north I think t r three the t r three series is Northrop. So the connection between Northrop and Townsend Brown is in the mid sixties, Townsend Brown is being funded by a guy named Floyd Odlum. Floyd Odlum is the the majority owner of Northrop pre merger with Grumman. And so Townsend Brown is doing these experiments at Guidance Technologies, his outfit in Santa Monica.
Speaker: 1
01:50:30
This was all this investment was inspired by Edward Teller seeing his experiment and freaking out. He is doing these experiments. Bill Lear is actually has an office across the street. They’re doing all sorts of cool innovative stuff. He does a series of presentations, Curtis LeMay, for the Ram Corporation, for all sorts of kind of, you know, head honchos when it comes to American military.
Speaker: 1
01:50:51
In 1967, Ai Technologies shuts down with no explanation. They say, you know, our results all failed. But after a bunch of the a series of these high level meetings, that was at the end of nineteen sixty seven. ‘3 months later, at the beginning of 1968, Northrop publishes a paper called electro aerodynamics and supersonic flow or in supersonic flow.
Speaker: 1
01:51:15
And it is basically paying homage to electro hydrodynamics and Townsend Brown’s work. It is exactly part and parcel Townsend Brown’s work. They then do a press release at the time. They retract the press release because they arya embarrassed. Then later, Bill Scott at Aviation Week in, I think, 1992 sai the the b two surfs its own wave using the sai field bryden effect.
Speaker: 1
01:51:40
There’s a ai who’s known as the Doian of, British aviation journalism. His name is Bill Gunston. And he, and and, Air International magazine is doing a survey level overview of all aero engine tech since World War two. And he says, I am I am familiar with the rudiments of Thomas Townsend Brown’s work, but I don’t wanna end up in the Tyler Of London.
Speaker: 1
01:52:05
So I will refrain from talking about millions of volts charged positive to millions of volts charged negative on the trailing edge of the wing of the b two. Still bombing. Yes.
Speaker: 0
01:52:16
And What is the Tower Of London? What’s that reference to?
Speaker: 1
01:52:19
He’s just saying Sai don’t wanna end up in jail. Tower Of London is probably where Jack the Ripper ended up or where I don’t think it was, like, in you know? But he’s, like, don’t get on my ass. It surfs its own wave. It surfs its own wave. So if you put that electro aerodynamics and supersonic flow paper, which is available, you could put that into chat g p t.
Speaker: 1
01:52:37
And how it could be, like, how can this confer an advantage to an airframe for, you know do that. Yeah. You can do that. And it’ll do that. I’ll I’ll tell you what it’s like. Do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s wild. It’s wild.
Speaker: 1
01:52:48
I’ll give you a bunch of answers for
Speaker: 0
01:52:49
what it ai. Own way.
Speaker: 1
01:52:50
So that’s the paper. Alright. Yeah.
Speaker: 3
01:52:53
Ai do I download it then?
Speaker: 1
01:52:54
Electro aerodynamics. So my point if the t if the t r three a and b are real, like, the b two the b two is still so locked out. We sell f 30 fives to allied nations, Norway, Canada, you know, whatever. We don’t sell b twos to anybody, eve including allied nations. The the the the the ticket price is 2,000,000,000. They have a new version of the b two that’s, you know, I think, like, 700,000,000 or whatever.
Speaker: 1
01:53:19
They weren’t built at scale. They’re extremely locked down. It’s pretty crazy.
Speaker: 0
01:53:25
Wow. So what would they be doing? Like, how would it be surfing its own way? Like, what what advantage would that confer?
Speaker: 1
01:53:34
If you do this CHAT GPT thing, it’ll say it doesn’t split the airflow as meh, and so you get more lift, and there’s reduced drag. The the shock wave is reduced. The electric field somehow interact with the particles at the boundary layer where the the frame hits the air. And so there are a bunch of theoretical things that are honestly probably a little above my pay grade, but that even, you know, conventional AI will tell you that it will do as far as being helped.
Speaker: 0
01:54:00
Gun to head, how far do you think they’ve gotten this stuff?
Speaker: 1
01:54:04
Man, I mean, this stuff was being this was, like, eighties, and they were probably maybe building in the early eighties or maybe late seventies. So definitely way farther than that.
Speaker: 0
01:54:14
You know? Do do you entertain the possibility that this thing that Lazar talked about that we see on the desk right there, the speak model, do you think that that was ours?
Speaker: 1
01:54:24
That feels really hard for me to to to say in good faith because that was around the time that the b two was just being unveiled.
Speaker: 0
01:54:31
Also, no seams.
Speaker: 1
01:54:32
No seams. Looks like
Speaker: 0
01:54:33
it’s three d printed. Totally. Element one thirteen or one fifteen rather. In this generator that nobody understands.
Speaker: 1
01:54:40
Yeah. I I’m I think that is more of the variety of something that would crash in the New Mexico Desert. That is and this is where it gets weird because everybody wants a clean solution. Everybody wants the the anti gravity the UFOs to be a cover for the anti gravity.
Speaker: 0
01:54:57
Including Lazar. Like, he said when he saw the sticker on it, there was Meh flag sticker on the sport model. He’s like, oh, I get it. This these are ours. Yep. That’s why people keep seeing them. And then as he starts examining these things, he’s like, no. Yep. This is not ours.
Speaker: 0
01:55:12
Like, what the fuck is this is meant for three foot tall things. Yeah. There’s no controls in this. Like, what is this?
Speaker: 1
01:55:18
If reality has a governor on it and we’re we’re in weird territory, we’re just talking about AI ai all this stuff is just getting so weird quantum computing. If reality has a governor on it, like a like a governor on a motor, you take the governor off. Do you get is it ai a hydra where you cut the head off and you get five in its place, or you get one neat solution?
Speaker: 1
01:55:36
You don’t get one neat solution. Of course not. It’s a zoo of things. Right. And so at the time that, like, the government’s kind of unraveling and all these we have all these transparency initiatives or whatever, and you get these secret science lineages.
Speaker: 1
01:55:49
And then our our apertures are people are waking up to greater realities. The fact that the pandemic could even happen, like, is sort of so crazy, and then it makes you question. It was ai, what what about the Gulf Of Tonkin, USS Maine, and all these things? Yeah. I think all of this stuff is coming out at the same time, and it’s not necessarily this neat solution where the anti gravity just, you know, accounts for the UFOs and the aliens.
Speaker: 0
01:56:12
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:56:13
And the UFOs and nukes stuff, which was happening since the forties
Speaker: 2
01:56:16
Right. Where
Speaker: 1
01:56:16
it’s ai, I don’t I don’t know how I I can’t explain that via anti gravity experiments.
Speaker: 0
01:56:22
And then there’s a question of how many? How many different civilizations visit us? Yeah. How many different things? How many different versions of these things are there? If this is, like, a testing ground, is it it’s is this open to the general public of space?
Speaker: 1
01:56:37
Also also not zero or one, probably zero or a hundred. It’s probably a zoo of things.
Speaker: 0
01:56:43
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:56:44
It’s just the most likely thing.
Speaker: 0
01:56:45
That was what was interesting about your episode that you did with Tyler, where they were documenting the different shapes. And I’m like, okay, where’s the flying saucer? Right. You don’t have a flying saucer
Speaker: 2
01:56:54
in this. How come
Speaker: 0
01:56:55
you don’t have a flying saucer? You have all these other shapes.
Speaker: 1
01:56:57
Totally.
Speaker: 0
01:56:57
You have a Tic Tac. You have a Tetris or whatever the fuck it is. Uh-huh. Where’s the one that everybody sees?
Speaker: 1
01:57:03
The iconic Yeah. Billy Myers.
Speaker: 0
01:57:06
Yeah. Yeah. That’s weird. Yeah. You know? It is weird. Also, do you work for the CIA?
Speaker: 1
01:57:12
I do not.
Speaker: 2
01:57:13
I do
Speaker: 0
01:57:13
not work
Speaker: 1
01:57:13
for the CIA.
Speaker: 0
01:57:14
Do you have to answer if I ask you? Is it like do you remember those movies where you ask a guy if they’re an undercover cop? You ask them if they’re a cop, they have to tell you. Yeah. People really used to believe that. Yeah. But it’s just a fictional tool.
Speaker: 0
01:57:25
They don’t really have to tell you that they’re undercover cops.
Speaker: 1
01:57:27
They don’t have to tell you. But there is I think there’s, like, one two two triple three or whatever where, like, if you’re CIA, you can’t be fucking with domestic stuff, which I think they break all the fucking time. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:57:37
Sai I
Speaker: 1
01:57:37
don’t think that’s a reason.
Speaker: 0
01:57:39
They probably passed laws that ai that a long time ago.
Speaker: 5
01:57:41
For sure.
Speaker: 1
01:57:42
Well, I yeah. I mean, I think they also killed JFK. This. This is the Bateson lab video. There you go.
Speaker: 0
01:57:47
What’s really crazy is that looks remarkably similar to the design that Lazar said the generator looks like that’s inside the UFO.
Speaker: 1
01:57:55
Well, here’s something crazy. Lazar says there are two different gravities, gravity a and gravity b. Again, I think Townsend Brown was a poor theorist, but he wrote a paper called the Structure of Space while he was at Martin Vega Corporation. By the way, Townsend Brown started working at Martin Vega the year that Skunk Works formed, which I think is very interesting.
Speaker: 1
01:58:12
And he says in Structure of Space, there are two forms of gravity. He says there are gravity wells and gravity hills. And he talk about he talks about how the yeah. It’s crazy. He talks about the protons, in an atom outweighing the electrons.
Speaker: 1
01:58:28
And so you get this weak positive charge for all matter that creates, a a gravity well, like this inward pull. But in fact, it’s sort of this electromagnetic derivative or whatever in his model. And, again, I would not over index on his theory. I think there’s tons of proof that he just figured out this topological physics effect and other people figured out theory. Maybe even they just have, like, locally useful theories.
Speaker: 1
01:58:51
Ryan Graves was on your show and talked about extended electrodynamics. Ram put us probably the top tip of the spear as far as a lot of theory around this exotic stuff, Sonny White, you know, other people like that. But, yeah, it is interesting that you both of these guys had two versions of Gravity.
Speaker: 0
01:59:07
Yeah. It’s very interesting. It’s very interesting. And the the the Lazar stuff to me, it’s if a ai gonna be a liar like that, he’s gonna tell a lot of lies.
Speaker: 1
01:59:17
Right.
Speaker: 0
01:59:17
It’s not gonna be just one lie from ’89.
Speaker: 2
01:59:20
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know
Speaker: 0
01:59:20
what I mean? The you basically say the same version of forever.
Speaker: 1
01:59:24
Yeah. The I mean, the the the other weird thing in that story is in meh of deception, Jacques Vallee’s book. He talks about because he’s not a believer in Lazar. He talks about Lazar being forced to drink a liquid. And Lazar even talks about this openly, that he was forced to to, drink the liquid, and it tastes like pine or something.
Speaker: 1
01:59:44
And it and it causes memory lapses in certain cases. So that’s also a weird factor, but there is so meh, I think. My buddy Luigi Ai also have a good friend named Chris Ramsey. He has an amazing UFO channel called Area fifty two, and he’s met Lazar through Luigi. And I don’t wanna blow up their spot, but they’ve given me a lot of ammo as far as just Lazar being at Area 51 Sai 4.
Speaker: 1
02:00:07
And so it’s it’s so fascinating.
Speaker: 0
02:00:10
So they gave him this liquid to kill his memory? Ai idea behind it?
Speaker: 1
02:00:14
I don’t know if he knew the intent. It was just drink this or whatever. And then he said that it caused at least in the Valais readout, he says that it caused memory lapses. It’s the quote in meh of deception. But you here’s this is where it gets so confusing. If you MK Ultra was super widespread. It was deleted, you know, the church committee or whatever.
Speaker: 1
02:00:35
But, like, it was it was a very widespread program. What would be one of the number one use cases where you’d use MK Ultra? It wouldn’t necessarily be to trick somebody into saying that they saw a flying saucer. It would be around the flying saucer program to fuck with the person’s memory so that they couldn’t read certain things out.
Speaker: 0
02:00:52
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:00:52
So it’s just this again, it’s hard to say.
Speaker: 0
02:00:55
Well, then there’s also weird stuff ai the large folder that was on religion. Yes. You know, like, how much of that is just misinformation?
Speaker: 5
02:01:04
I think
Speaker: 1
02:01:04
a lot of that was passage material. Because it’s similar to stuff.
Speaker: 2
02:01:07
Passage material? What does that mean?
Speaker: 1
02:01:08
It’s basically stuff given to somebody where it’s, like, certain provably false things. You can track where the provably false stuff goes or whatever. It’s also a litmus test to see if they’ll believe it. It’s ai spooky intel shit. And in in ’79, there’s a guy named Rick Doty who drives a guy named Paul Benowitz insane, basically.
Speaker: 1
02:01:30
He views this vertically taken off and landing exotic craft at Kirtland Air Force Base where there are a lot of interesting things, you know, seen. And, he is is shown similar things along with Linda Moulton Howe is taken, in front of a two way mirror, and Rick Doty, this Air Force Office of Special Investigations agent, who we know is acting in bad faith at that ai, he’s even come out and admitted this, shows her this thing called Project Garnet, and it is oddly similar around accelerated evolution to the stuff that they showed Lazar.
Speaker: 1
02:02:03
Also, if you have a UFO program that’s extremely compartmentalized, ai, at the same time, give the person this, like, ontological model of reality while you’re compartmentalizing? Ai doesn’t make sense. So and this is what I love about Lazar. Lazar will admit that, like he’s, like, I think a lot of that stuff could have been fake and bullshit, and I only am relaying what I saw when with regards to the craft, and I don’t take any of that stuff fully at face value.
Speaker: 1
02:02:28
So it was there’s Project Galileo. There’s there’s Looking Glass. You know, there are these projects that were super interesting and speak, and I think worthy of engagement with, like, all these weird limited hangouts are. But
Speaker: 0
02:02:40
Do any of these people that supposedly had had contact with extraterrestrial entities or interdimensional or whatever they are, do any of these people recall a conversation where they warn us about AI?
Speaker: 1
02:02:57
That’s such a great question.
Speaker: 0
02:02:59
I don’t think so.
Speaker: 1
02:03:00
I don’t think so either. It’s almost always nuclear.
Speaker: 0
02:03:03
That seems crazy. Well, maybe. That seems crazy that there there’s no discussion about you arya on the verge of something truly spectacular.
Speaker: 1
02:03:12
Maybe AI is their control system.
Speaker: 0
02:03:14
Maybe they are AI. Maybe they arya AI. Maybe AI becomes that. Maybe ai limitations, that need to be traversed, and the best way to traverse them is to eliminate biology.
Speaker: 1
02:03:25
We are now experimenting with computational biology. You can use things ai like this neuroscientist, Carl Friston, the free energy print. There’s this company called Cortical Labs, and Ai I think they might play up some of their results, but they use these microelectrode, plate arrays.
Speaker: 1
02:03:40
And they program, like, rat cultured rat neurons to do basic computational ram, tasks. And so, like, if that’s the super base level. Right? Like, we’re just creating the, like, transistors for this, like, new model of computation. But if you go way out into the future Right.
Speaker: 1
02:03:56
You have anatomical compilers, three d printers of bodies, and, you know, these things could be drone avatar. That’s why when people are like, why do they crash? This could be their Earth homeostasis kit that they’ve deployed. They’re just Von Neumann replicator probes meant to, you know, oversee the Earth.
Speaker: 1
02:04:13
And, you know, a little node lights up when we create nuclear or, like, an AI thing or, like
Speaker: 0
02:04:17
Ai, it’s also like Posalka, you know, Diana Posalka. She she thinks they’re donations.
Speaker: 1
02:04:22
That’s what she says. Yeah. They’re called donation sites and Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:04:25
Like, which is, like, if you sana accelerated evolution, like, hey, wouldn’t it be cool if you guys made this? Just leave the wheel, you know?
Speaker: 1
02:04:32
Just look over here.
Speaker: 0
02:04:33
Leave this. Leave that. It kind of I mean, that’s the way to get someone to think outside the box.
Speaker: 1
02:04:39
Plant the seed. Yeah. Yeah. You just
Speaker: 0
02:04:41
You you don’t wanna wait for these morons to figure out how to make this.
Speaker: 1
02:04:44
If you were trying to accelerate technological evolution in North Sentinel Island, which has no contact Right. With humans, what would you you might just airdrop a computer. Figure it out, you know. And they’d be ai, a computer? This is I start
Speaker: 0
02:04:56
with a lighter. Sure.
Speaker: 2
02:04:57
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think they have fun.
Speaker: 1
02:04:59
Yeah. Yeah. Computer might be a little advanced.
Speaker: 0
02:05:00
Yeah. But, yeah, you would give them some stuff. Yep. Yeah. And let them figure out how to make that stuff and give them the raw materials to make that stuff.
Speaker: 1
02:05:08
Totally.
Speaker: 0
02:05:08
Especially if you do ai, you have some complex alloy, like this bismuth, whatever the hell it is with layered, like, find that, figure that out. Yep. Can you make it? Yeah. You know, you get your best scientist and you compartmentalize ai. You do it over decades because you really can’t open it up.
Speaker: 0
02:05:25
And this is one of the things that Lazar said that he had deep frustration about while working at s four is that you can’t do science like that where everything’s compartmentalized. You need to be able to open it up to collaboration. Yep. And there was you couldn’t collaborate. You weren’t allowed to.
Speaker: 1
02:05:39
Yep.
Speaker: 0
02:05:39
So it’s like, we’re not gonna get anywhere. Okay. We’re gonna bring in new people.
Speaker: 2
02:05:43
You know?
Speaker: 0
02:05:43
We’re gonna bring in a new ai, see if this new genius can hey. What do you think of this? Like, what is it? You tell me.
Speaker: 1
02:05:49
That could be a part of what’s happening with disclosure where if you have cold ram war era secrecy, it’s ai if we’re ahead of Russia and China, clamp down. We feel like we can’t let them know anything.
Speaker: 0
02:06:01
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:06:01
But then all of a sudden, maybe they play catch up. And then all of a sudden, maybe you have this archaic cargo cult system that doesn’t work anymore to avoid FOIA requests where you have restricted data covering, you know, material found by specific aerospace corporations that aren’t even our best and brightest when it comes to our defense primes anymore or whatever.
Speaker: 0
02:06:23
Right. Right.
Speaker: 1
02:06:23
And you’re you’re at the top of the national security ai, and you’re like, holy shit. Like, we need to update this stuff. So we need to broaden the surface area without giving away the crown jewels. We need some disclosure on these things. You can’t it is maladaptive from a national security standpoint to have some STEM student in Kentucky who’s a prodigy to not even think this shit is real.
Speaker: 0
02:06:43
Right. Right. Right. And then you’re dealing with China where they’ve got it completely opened up, and they’re, like, make this.
Speaker: 1
02:06:48
Completely opened up and, like, Sai don’t know if you’ve read. There’s a, great, Chinese science fiction novel called The Three Body Problem.
Speaker: 0
02:06:56
Great show on Netflix, dude.
Speaker: 1
02:06:57
It’s amazing. And the the CCP will show up at your door and say, come work for us. You are working here. And that’s not really the way we do things. So the way we do things is, like, you get the stuff out in these ai of partial limited hangouts thing. You go go compete, like, just like the AI stuff.
Speaker: 0
02:07:12
Right. You know? Right.
Speaker: 1
02:07:13
It’s like, see what happens.
Speaker: 0
02:07:15
Over there, if you leak it, they’ll just fucking kill you.
Speaker: 2
02:07:17
Yes. Exactly. You’re not gonna leak it.
Speaker: 1
02:07:19
No. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:07:20
It’s it’s to me the the question of civilization, are we alone? It is the question. And I don’t think we are. Yeah. That’s my my my gut instinct. I don’t think we are. It seems so ridiculous when people do think we are. You know?
Speaker: 1
02:07:37
I agree.
Speaker: 0
02:07:38
Sai just But what about the numbers? Just the sheer numbers. Like, it doesn’t make any sense that this is so unique that we, in this one very tiny planet, it’s spinning around not so special star.
Speaker: 1
02:07:52
Occam’s razor is we are not alone. You have the Fermi paradox. You have the Drake equation. Yeah. You have all these sort of rationalist ways of arguing that. But also, look at there’s a great book called The Half Life of Facts by Sam Meh. And he talks about how, like, at any given time, 50% of, you know, received knowledge, like, our our physical model of the universe is wrong.
Speaker: 1
02:08:13
So you can sai, those things are showing up in the sky. That is wrong because physics. But historically, you would have been wrong. Like, that’s crazy. It’s a bad point. Right? And so if you actually look at, you know, whether we’re alone or not, modern enlightenment history is a detour from the past.
Speaker: 1
02:08:32
If you look at every culture, whether it’s Iamblichus or or or maybe a better example is medieval Christianity with Saint Thomas Aquinas or just read the New Testament, like, a multitude of angels. You have angels and demon. You know, that’s kind of the passport to Magonia, Ai Pesoka, American cosmic thesis. Like, this stuff has been going on forever.
Speaker: 1
02:08:51
You look at the the devas in, you know, in in Hindu culture or the jinn in in Islamic culture. Like, we are outnumbered in our modern, you know, enlightenment rational skeptic epistemology.
Speaker: 0
02:09:03
Yeah. We really are. And how many depictions from the past of flying things? Ezekiel from the Ai, Vimanas, all these different like, what are they saying? What are these things? Yeah. What do you think that stuff is? Like, what is it? You know?
Speaker: 0
02:09:19
And but then again, you and I, neither one of us has had an experience. So we’re we’re just, like, fucking being in the wind. I’ve seen something?
Speaker: 1
02:09:26
I’ve seen a UFO.
Speaker: 2
02:09:27
But What have you seen?
Speaker: 1
02:09:29
I’ve sai actually, a few. But, Really?
Speaker: 2
02:09:31
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:09:32
How have you been so lucky?
Speaker: 1
02:09:34
I don’t know. I don’t know. Ai and It’s because they know. Ai know you’re working on it. Ai, like, who knows? They’re UFO researchers that, like, don’t like to talk about this, but I think the move is just be honest. Like, I’ve seen the thing, and I
Speaker: 0
02:09:45
just noticed that.
Speaker: 1
02:09:47
I was in Laurel Canyon where I used to live, and, I saw a thing that looked like a fucking school bus. It looked like like no visible propulsion, this, like, sort of low humming noise or whatever. It was maybe fifty, sixty, 70 feet high, like, above the tree right above the treetops.
Speaker: 1
02:10:05
The the the trippiest part of the experience and why this is it’s just so weird is I was with, this woman I was kinda dating at the time. We were taking a walk in Laurel Canyon, and, shah was like, are you into aliens? I was like, actually, I kinda am into I was kinda interested in that topic. And and then I think I joke back.
Speaker: 1
02:10:24
I was like, I don’t wanna meet an alien. And she was like, me too. And then she goes, you’ll you’ll meet them when you’re when you stop looking for them.
Speaker: 0
02:10:33
Oh, that bitch is an alien.
Speaker: 2
02:10:36
And then as we’re plant.
Speaker: 1
02:10:37
As we’re this is the weirdest part of the whole story. As we’re walking, it’s ai sunset in Laurel Canyon. We walk by a guy with a metal detector who’s, like, looking for something. It’s like, why are you looking for something at sunset in Laurel Canyon or whatever? So, like, that felt like this weird, like, you know, like, mirroring of our conversation. Ai, again, I have no fucking idea.
Speaker: 1
02:10:57
Then we walk in into this little clearing, and we see this, like, school bus thing, like, just go right over the top.
Speaker: 0
02:11:03
Was it?
Speaker: 1
02:11:04
It was silver metallic.
Speaker: 0
02:11:07
Like an Airstream trailer. Like an
Speaker: 1
02:11:09
air like an Airstream trailer. Yeah. I can send you guys a video. I went on Chris Ram podcast. I described it, and I was sent a video. And for all I know, this video is fucking fake, by the way. But it was the thing that looked most like what I saw because it doesn’t match up with, like, the saucer, you know, triangle thing. Yeah. And I don’t know.
Speaker: 1
02:11:30
I ram almost more inclined to say discount my own thing over, like, the queue cleared guys who’ve, like, seen these things at New Orleans.
Speaker: 0
02:11:37
In the sky for?
Speaker: 1
02:11:39
It was in the sky for, like, a a few seconds because we couldn’t even see past the clearing or whatever. She said she saw it go over the trees and then descend down into the distance. I did not see that. And, like, you’re Laurel Canyon has is, like, mostly residential. So, ai, like, where did it descend there?
Speaker: 5
02:11:58
Right.
Speaker: 0
02:11:59
I don’t know. What else have you seen? You said you saw more than one thing?
Speaker: 1
02:12:02
Yeah. So another time, I was actually with a friend who invests, like, with me and Peter and is, like, the most rational guy you’ll ever meet. Like, he’s a he’s a fan of, like, Noam Chomsky and, like, David Hume. Like like, he is a modern rationalist atheist skeptic. And, we went surfing that day.
Speaker: 1
02:12:20
We were back at his place. I was super into holotropic breath work at the time, which I I love. And, we were doing holotropic breath work. Five minutes in, we both see these, like, metallic looking orbs. This was this ai, super high up in the in the in the ai, like, probably, you know, higher than what you would definitely way higher than a drone.
Speaker: 1
02:12:41
And one’s bobbing above him, one’s bobbing above meh, similar to, like, the typical, like, orb that, you know, a lot of people sort of describe, like the Mosul Orb or whatever, you know, a lot of these sightings. And, he looks at me, and he I go, like, what the fuck is that? He goes, dude, I think that’s, like, some secret black Lockheed tech or whatever.
Speaker: 1
02:13:01
And then I don’t even say anything. Two seconds goes ai, and then he looks at me and he goes, dude, that’s not fucking from here. He’s ai, that’s not Lockheed. Like, I don’t know what that is.
Speaker: 0
02:13:11
Do you entertain the possibility there’s states of consciousness that you could achieve where these things become visible?
Speaker: 1
02:13:17
Absolutely. And you’ve had Rick Strassman on. He talks about, you know, DMT, the spirit molecule. He talks about DMT as, like, night vision or, like, like, it’s like a it’s like, ai or a window. You know? It’s like Aldous Huxley, the doors of your perception. Are you superimposing a hallucination onto reality, or are you just seeing we see a limited part of the electromagnetic wave spectrum. We see between 407 nanometers.
Speaker: 1
02:13:42
Our audio range, you know, there’s a certain decibel limit. Right? So, like, when you take a substance like that, are you seeing things that are in objective reality, but we just don’t have access to them? And it’s it’s actually adaptive for us not to have access to them in our waking reality. And so it’s this interesting philosophical question.
Speaker: 1
02:14:02
I don’t know the answer to it.
Speaker: 0
02:14:04
Right. Would would be would we even be able to function if we had access to that? Probably not.
Speaker: 1
02:14:09
Probably not. No. It is there’s a guy named Donald Hoffman who’s a cognitive ai, and he talks about it’s like, why don’t we see electromagnetic waves themselves? Like, why aren’t you seeing Hertz frequencies? Yeah. It’s it’s we need to iconize everything we see just like a a, you know, desktop computer.
Speaker: 2
02:14:26
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:14:26
You know? Like, why do you see red? Because you oh, boom. Red. Blood. Gotta run. You know? Whatever. And then they hack that with notifications on social media. But the point is we are seeing inherently a collapsed condensed version of reality. We aren’t seeing the thing itself. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:14:41
And so it it ends up in these ontological loops where, like, meh, some rationalist skeptic can be ai, you’re you’re lying. That’s it ends up in this not even wrong category of, like, I can’t say that what I just said is definitively true as far as it being a window into some other realm, but neither the skeptic we just live in the age of disenchantment where you sai, don’t trust your eyes.
Speaker: 0
02:15:01
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:15:01
And they’re that’s as much faith based dogma as what I’m saying. So who knows? And that’s why I rest when I talk about this stuff on the shah. I rest more on the nuclear cases because it fits to our modern epistemology more.
Speaker: 0
02:15:16
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:15:16
But it’s not to say you should discount these, you know, people’s experiences where they do you know, maybe they’re in a peak state of consciousness sana they experience the thing. Maybe that thing is real.
Speaker: 0
02:15:24
Either there might be multiple different types of things that come ai. And the the nuclear one is a weird one. I mean, if you were from another planet or some other place and you ai an emerging civilization that had nuclear capabilities, you’d be like, hey, fuckers. Saloni down.
Speaker: 0
02:15:40
Hold the bryden, son. You know?
Speaker: 1
02:15:43
You would freak out. Unquestionably.
Speaker: 0
02:15:45
You know? That’s why we named the the rooms at the comedy mothership Fat Meh and Little Boy because that’s when they started showing up. Yeah. That’s when we got a lot of ai. It was post post the bombs.
Speaker: 1
02:15:55
Totally. And I love I love the mothership, by the way. It’s amazing. And I love going and seeing how UFO theme like Yeah. I you know? In preparation for this, I’ve had a couple friends be like, man, Joe Joe’s ai anti UFO, though. I’m like, no. He’s just frustrated with disclosure. Go to the mothership.
Speaker: 1
02:16:12
The whole fucking thing is getting so UFO.
Speaker: 0
02:16:15
They say I’m anti UFO? The most fucking UFOs ever. It’s one of the desks.
Speaker: 2
02:16:19
There’s one mom There.
Speaker: 1
02:16:20
I know. That’s so sad. Broke the biggest UFO story of all time. Like, it’s you’ve done more for disclosure than anybody in my opinion.
Speaker: 0
02:16:28
Well, I’m not anti UFO. But I’m I’m allergic to bullshit. And this stuff, some of it smells like bullshit, which is I would be remiss if we didn’t talk about those little mummies in Peru. Yeah, dude. What do you think is going on there?
Speaker: 1
02:16:41
They break my brain. They were they are they are this this was the most frustrating case I’ve ever had to deal with, and I wish I could give you a definitive, these things are definitely dead aliens. I cannot say that definitively at all. I do think there’s a lot of reason to believe that they are forensically organisms.
Speaker: 1
02:17:02
They are re they’re organisms that they
Speaker: 0
02:17:04
not. They’re incredible works of art.
Speaker: 1
02:17:06
If they’re not, they’re the most sophisticated hoax ever that that basically tricked forensic experts from, John McDowell who run who just won the the greatest award in forensics you could win or whatever, the Grandwall Award, who is the president of the American Forensics Scientific Association or whatever in The US. Jim Caruso, who’s the medical examiner chief medical examiner, in Denver. The equivalent of McDowell is a guy named doctor David Ruiz.
Speaker: 1
02:17:34
So he’s the Peruvian head of their forensics association and the head of the Mexican Navy forensics, is a guy named doctor Jose Saloni. All of these guys have seen so
Speaker: 0
02:17:45
this I think we’re sana getting ahead of ourselves. Let’s explain to people just so they can so they can stand alone. Because a lot of people, what the fuck are you talking about? Meh. Yeah. There are these very small mummified looking things that are in Peru that seem to look exactly like a similar kind of thing to a human being, but varies enough that you know it’s not us.
Speaker: 0
02:18:10
And it has more ribs, it has more spinal columns, or more more, more discs. This is what they look like. And there’s x rays of them, and that’s where it gets really weird. And they’re tridactyl. Right? So they have three fingers and three toes.
Speaker: 1
02:18:26
Yep. And the so these were discovered in 2015 in a cave, by a guy named Leandro who goes by Mario. And this is one of the headaches about the case is, like, we don’t have good provenance on it. So he is this Huacaro, gravedigger guy, and they were found in Ai Earth. So there’s actually an idea that they might not even be mummies.
Speaker: 1
02:18:46
Diatomaceous earth is a desiccant, and so they were dried out. And a lot of the organs are actually still inside the the the bodies. And there are three different types. There are s types, which are these little winged creatures. There are j types.
Speaker: 1
02:19:01
The j types are probably they were most popularized in this Mexican Congress where these things were outed in September of twenty twenty three, where, they look like almost close encounters. Jamie, if you scroll down, like, you see that Peru’s Congress, like, right there? Like, that thing looks like this, like, jokey, ai, Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
Speaker: 1
02:19:19
Like Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:19:19
It looks ai totally fake.
Speaker: 1
02:19:20
It looks totally fake. Right? So that’s those are the j types. They’re, like, 25 ish, maybe 25 to 30 of those.
Speaker: 0
02:19:26
The ones that they’ve x bryden, and that’s where it gets really weird.
Speaker: 1
02:19:28
The weirdest ones that I was talking about the forensics people kind of evaluating are these m types. These are, like, four to five feet. They look pretty anatomically consistent.
Speaker: 0
02:19:41
Have you seen them in person?
Speaker: 1
02:19:42
I have. Really? Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:19:44
And what what was your feeling?
Speaker: 1
02:19:46
My feeling was it was this Could you keep
Speaker: 2
02:19:48
those images up, please?
Speaker: 1
02:19:50
It was as with a lot of these things oscillating between, holy shah, this thing is not from here, and then, dude, you have to, like, chill and, like, there’s so many other things, you know, there’s so many other gates this has to get through for us to to actually, you know, verify this stuff.
Speaker: 0
02:20:07
See if you can get the go to X rays, Jamie. Find the images from the X rays. That that’s one, but there’s one that’s a little bit better because it’s one of the fetal position. It’s, Jamie, in my document, actually Look at that one.
Speaker: 1
02:20:20
Okay. There you go. So that one has eggs inside of it. What? If you go Ai. Yeah. Montserrat, which is
Speaker: 0
02:20:30
hips. Yeah. How weird.
Speaker: 1
02:20:32
So if you go to, yeah, if you go to Montserrat. Montserrat clip. Yeah. So this this one’s pregnant and has what they are claiming to be a tridactyl fetus inside of it.
Speaker: 0
02:20:45
Yeah. How many of these do they have?
Speaker: 1
02:20:47
So they have eight to 10 of these m types, these kind of most realistic looking ones.
Speaker: 0
02:20:52
Eight to 10?
Speaker: 1
02:20:53
Eight to 10. And then they have, 25 to 30 of the j types. Sai, yeah, look at that. That’s a that’s a three d reconstruction of the CAT scan.
Speaker: 0
02:21:03
Sai they have teeth. That’s weird.
Speaker: 1
02:21:04
They have teeth. Right? Yeah. They have they have tendons. They have bones. They have cartilage. They have organs inside. And then, so this is where we need to verify stuff. They even have actually,
Speaker: 0
02:21:14
Could you go back to the part of the video where what’s that?
Speaker: 3
02:21:17
There it is.
Speaker: 0
02:21:17
Yeah. That part. They have The fuck is that, man? That’s crazy.
Speaker: 1
02:21:22
They have osmium and cadmium implants in them, which are rare earth metals that were discovered in the nineteenth century.
Speaker: 0
02:21:28
This is art. If someone made this, I need to buy one.
Speaker: 2
02:21:35
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you need
Speaker: 0
02:21:36
to tell me how much this costs. I need to put it on my table because you’re a genius. If you’ve made that and you tricked everybody into thinking that that’s real, you’re a goddamn genius and you shouldn’t just be hoaxing people. Well So then the alternative is that’s real. Well If that’s real, that’s completely insane.
Speaker: 1
02:21:51
Joe, fortunately and unfortunate fortunately for you maybe, but unfortunately for the case, these guagueras, these gravediggers arya selling some of these things on the black market. And this case is the ai, wild west. It is so much. How much do I ai for? I’ve heard 7 figures.
Speaker: 0
02:22:09
7 figures?
Speaker: 1
02:22:10
I’ve heard a lot of money.
Speaker: 0
02:22:12
Jeez, Luis.
Speaker: 1
02:22:13
But Is
Speaker: 0
02:22:13
Peter Thiel buying one of these? Don’t say yes. Look at that thing.
Speaker: 1
02:22:20
That’s wild. Sai crazy. But there there are serious problem. Yeah. I can I I wanna caveat all of this and, like, you know, I don’t wanna be overly sensationalist about this? If it’s a hoax, it’s the best hoax ever.
Speaker: 2
02:22:31
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:22:31
It is the best my friend, Michael Mazzola, who, like, kind of rolled the red carpet down, allowed me to even see these things. He’s making a video, ram making a documentary on this, that that that’s coming out this August, and it’s called This Is Not a Hoax. I told them to put in parentheses or this is the most sophisticated hoax ever
Speaker: 2
02:22:48
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:22:49
Because the DNA testing sucks. There’s no signal the signal to noise ratio sucks on the DNA.
Speaker: 0
02:22:55
How come?
Speaker: 1
02:22:56
Because there was probably human contamination. Like, the the, the the, NCBI, which is this, like, biotech repository where you have a lot of this genetic information on two of the bodies, Victoria and Maria. This is all publicly available. They’ve done analysis on this. And, like, the camp that is very pro, you know, these being alien is this guy Jaime Masson, and he is I actually think he’s awesome. I love him.
Speaker: 1
02:23:25
He’s, like, this former sixty Minutes guy in Mexico, and he’s paid a lot of money to protect a lot of the these bodies. He’s very open about, like, we just need more scientific research. Ai know, he wants more eyes on this thing. But some of the genetics, you know, some of the genetics researchers that they’re basing the stuff on, I spoke to one of them.
Speaker: 1
02:23:44
His guy’s name is doctor Ricardo Ronnell. And he’s a biologist. I don’t think he’s actually a geneticist. And his belief is, like he was, like, this is you know, there’s 30% of this is, like, unknown DNA that we don’t know. And then in the 70%, you have mitochondrial DNA from Myanmar, and then you have DNA from a parasite in Africa.
Speaker: 1
02:24:09
And you also have bonobos and chimpanzee DNA, which means it was an ancient primate that, held this DNA, because it was before they phylogenetically split off. So what he’s sai and this is crazy, is he was saying that, like, a a a a a a hominid speak, an early hominid species went from Asia to Africa.
Speaker: 1
02:24:31
And because there are some theories that they actually you know, East Africa is not, like, the the first hominid species. Maybe it was East Asia. So it’s already, like, kind of requiring some leaps of logic or whatever
Speaker: 2
02:24:40
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:24:40
And then had sex with this, like, primate thing, and you end up with this hybrid. And then another leap of logic is that before Pizarro and all the conquistadors, like, there’s there’s actually, like, transmission of, you know, beings from Africa to South America. I don’t believe that. That’s it’s crazy.
Speaker: 1
02:24:59
It’s like saying the, you know, the pangolin theory is better than the, you know, the the the Wuhan lab leak theory, which is just like Occam’s razor. That’s not real.
Speaker: 0
02:25:07
Well, we do know that there were other types of hominids that coexisted with human beings.
Speaker: 1
02:25:12
Denisovans. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:25:13
Yeah. The the the Flores people, the the Hobbit people. What what is the carbon dating on these things?
Speaker: 1
02:25:20
Carbon dating ranges from 700 years ago, which would actually be Incan. That would be because Incan started in, like, 1450. Mhmm. And then, all the way down to 800 1,800 years ago, which is the Nazca people.
Speaker: 0
02:25:35
That’s what’s fascinating because, you know, there’s this there’s this mystery of the Hobbit people. Right? Where they they didn’t really think that that was they there’s a lot of speculation that it was some bizarre type of human being that was deformed and tiny, and then they realized, like, ai, this is a specific branch of the human chain.
Speaker: 0
02:25:57
It’ll be just like Ai and just like Neandertal. There’s a thing called the Ram Pendek. Have you ever heard of that?
Speaker: 1
02:26:05
No. What is that?
Speaker: 0
02:26:05
They think Ai believe it’s Indonesia and maybe Vietnam, where people talk about these little tiny hairy people that live in the jungle. Woah. And so these Flores things, there’s there’s a few biologists that believe these things are still alive.
Speaker: 1
02:26:21
Interesting.
Speaker: 0
02:26:22
Ai think even on the island of Flores, they might still be alive. What?
Speaker: 1
02:26:25
Yeah. Are you serious?
Speaker: 0
02:26:27
Right. Sai, if they’re alive, if this turns out to be true, like, let’s imagine this. Because there’s been things like the coelacanth, which they thought were extinct for millions of years, and then they caught one. And they’re ai, oh meh god. This is a prehistoric fish and still ai. And now, they know that there’s a population of them. But this is the deep ocean. Right? Much less explored.
Speaker: 0
02:26:46
But when you look at Indonesia, when you look at, Flores, the island of Flores, look at all these places, like, you’re talking about insanely dense vegetation that is virtually uninhabited. Yeah. So maybe, like and these things used to live on that island. For sure, we’ve got bones. We know they lived we know they used tools.
Speaker: 0
02:27:09
We know they probably had language. They lived on that island. They might still be alive. So we didn’t know about these things. And I think was it the nineties, I think, when they discovered them? Denisovans, I think, was like 02/2010.
Speaker: 0
02:27:23
And then this new species, the big headed people, were they Julien’s? What what do they call them? Yeah. That’s it. That’s ai a few months ago.
Speaker: 2
02:27:32
Right.
Speaker: 0
02:27:32
They found these.
Speaker: 3
02:27:33
Right.
Speaker: 0
02:27:33
And this is another type of human being. So what what are the odds that there’s some three footed, three toed thing that existed a few thousand years ago?
Speaker: 1
02:27:45
And there are pictoglyphs all over the region, both in Nazca and Pulpa in Southern Peru.
Speaker: 0
02:27:51
So this is one that looks fake as fuck. But this guy is driving in his motorcycle and he’s, filming and he claims that he got this thing running away.
Speaker: 1
02:28:02
No way. Little hairy thing.
Speaker: 0
02:28:04
Yeah. You could see as he’s riding his motorcycle, this thing, like, darts across the road in front of him. And this is a few years ago too where, you know, CGI sucked. So there it is. You could see it real briefly for a second. It just runs across the road. Look at that. Oh, my God. What is that? I don’t know.
Speaker: 0
02:28:25
But if this thing did exist at one point in time I mean, goddamn, it looks good. Yeah. If it did exist at one point in time and people do see it all the time, it there might be a small population of them that are still alive. That thing, the X-ray of it or the the Meh, the CAT scan looked human, but weird.
Speaker: 1
02:28:47
Yes. But the teeth and the jaw
Speaker: 0
02:28:49
it looked like a deformed human.
Speaker: 1
02:28:50
And it is important to note that there were skull elongation rituals going on as early as the Paracas people, which were pre, the Nazca people. What were they imitating? That’s the interesting question. What the Nazca ai. Why are they making they it’s probably humans that made these things.
Speaker: 0
02:29:06
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:29:06
But there are things that only make sense from an aerial view. And they’re miles long. And they’re miles long.
Speaker: 0
02:29:11
What are you doing?
Speaker: 1
02:29:12
And there are there are pictoglyphs, you know, cave art all over the region with three fingered beings, with tridactyl beings.
Speaker: 0
02:29:20
Are they really?
Speaker: 1
02:29:21
There are. And this is the weirdest thing. There’s a guy named Thierry Amine who is, like, the first Westerner. He’s this French kind of he’s an amazing archaeologist and explorer. And, he was the first guy that met Leandro, the the the, gravedigger who found the bodies to begin with.
Speaker: 1
02:29:37
He Saloni is the, actually, like, local dialect there that’s spoken. He says that the name of the general region means, laboratory for insemination and cloning.
Speaker: 2
02:29:53
What? Yeah. What?
Speaker: 1
02:29:55
Yeah. In Kalki. Yeah. What? So, like, I have I I need to corroborate this. Like, I don’t have the the skills to do that, but, like, that’s what he says. It’s crazy.
Speaker: 0
02:30:04
What the fuck, man?
Speaker: 1
02:30:06
I know. But then Holy shit. Ai this case is such a headache is, like, there’s this guy Speak Meh, who I think is a totally he’s a he’s a UFO researcher. He’s the one of the less mushy brained UFO researchers. There’s a lot of mushy brained UFO researchers. Really smart guy.
Speaker: 1
02:30:20
I’ve, like, quoted him a lot of my other videos. And he’s, like, we looked at one of the m types, one of the bigger ones that, like, I’m still holding out hope for because, like, I’d love it to be real. And he said that he did genetic analysis on two of the phalanges, and one came back male, one came back female.
Speaker: 1
02:30:35
And so he was ai, I think they were constructed. But I’m like, how do you get by these forensic experts? So it’s this weird it’s just the DNA stuff, you don’t get a good signal. And the reason that nobody even cared this is the most interesting paleoarchaeological case today, in my opinion.
Speaker: 1
02:30:50
The reason that people don’t even care is because in 2023, when these were popularized by Jaime Masson where he rolled out this j type Posafina, the one that looked like kind of Close Encounters the third ai, in front of the Mexican Congress, this guy named Manuel Casares, who was an artist who was making renditions of the things with, like, woods and sticks and stuff glued together.
Speaker: 1
02:31:13
He was apprehended at the airport by the chief Peru prosecutor, this guy named Flavio Estrada. And there were Reuters picked this up saying this is all fake because of these fake and I have this in this documentary that I’m coming out with where he goes, this was art. Yeah. We dub it. But he goes, this was art. It’s crazy.
Speaker: 0
02:31:32
Sai, like So that’s the signals crossed.
Speaker: 1
02:31:34
The signals crossed. And I think if there’s anything about this case, it’s ai, let’s get our best and brightest on it and figure it out. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:31:40
I think we can figure it out quickly
Speaker: 1
02:31:42
if we had the right resource. And there are all these Interpol laws, like, you can’t move the bodies from the from Peru. And Right. It’s crazy. Well, even
Speaker: 0
02:31:50
if it’s just a different branch of the human ai, I mean, that just if it if that’s a different branch off the human tree, that’s fascinating enough.
Speaker: 1
02:31:57
I agree.
Speaker: 0
02:31:58
That there’s, like, three fingered, three toed people that live Totally. With a weird shaped head.
Speaker: 1
02:32:03
And if you find if the there is phenotypic inheritance where you find that the tridactyl being inside Montserrat’s belly is also tridactyl, then at at what point do you go, this is the how can you hook sai?
Speaker: 0
02:32:15
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:32:15
How can you hook set? That’s crazy.
Speaker: 0
02:32:18
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:32:19
So and and he’s Zolce, who, by the way, is the head of the Mexican, medical navy, he he was thrown in jail for supporting this case because they were like, we don’t wanna be associated with this. And now the new secretary of the navy in Mexico has brought him back, and he’s sort of being vindicated.
Speaker: 1
02:32:35
But he is ai I was like, Jose, like, if you showed this CAT scan image of the baby to any normal doctor, they didn’t know anything about the case, would they say it had three fingers? He goes, yes. So if that’s the case, I think that is a big deal. But then you have the Steve Meh.
Speaker: 1
02:32:52
And so I just I don’t wanna come out fully. You know? I don’t know.
Speaker: 0
02:32:56
Of course. Of course. Yeah. Of course. But, I mean, how much evidence would there be? This is the problem with fossils. Right? Because when things die, they don’t really create fossils unless it’s a very extraordinary instance, you know, like something unusual has to occur. You gotta get trapped in mud. Right.
Speaker: 0
02:33:14
You know, that’s how so most of the things that have lived, we don’t have fossils of, which is if this thing was a small percentage or small population, small percentage of the the living humans, and some of them are like ai. And they just died off, like, five hundred years ago, a thousand years ago.
Speaker: 1
02:33:32
And these ones got saved because they were around the diatomaceous earth mine, which preserved their organs and their whole body.
Speaker: 0
02:33:38
Just from an anthropology perspective, that should be the most fascinating thing. But it’s got the stink of a hoax on it, so people don’t wanna go and study it.
Speaker: 1
02:33:45
Yeah. I total the part of what I almost wanna do is, like, a nature of reality fund that I tyler to the shah, where I’m, like, I I see so many cases like this where I’m, like, if we just had some money.
Speaker: 0
02:33:59
So it’s
Speaker: 1
02:33:59
and it’s, like, so important for humanity. Right? Ai it’s, like, nonprofit. It’s just let’s just pay to get the best people. I think, like, one of the problems with modernity is, like, the smartest people are working on the dumbest problems. We’re building $15,000,000,000 particle accelerators.
Speaker: 1
02:34:13
People are stuck in string theory. We’re, like, debating all this dumb shah. And you have these things. I don’t know if they’re real. You can debunk it. Fine.
Speaker: 1
02:34:21
But if they’re real and it’s not 0% that they’re real according to these forensic experts, let’s pour
Speaker: 0
02:34:27
some resources into it. Yeah. It might be real. They look
Speaker: 1
02:34:31
real. They look kinda real. They look very real. And when I was in person, I was freaking I was like, what
Speaker: 0
02:34:36
the fuck? Like I said, if that’s art, whoever made it is fucking incredible.
Speaker: 5
02:34:41
I have one.
Speaker: 0
02:34:42
If that’s art Yeah. You you’d have to have a really deep understanding of anatomy and then alter it.
Speaker: 1
02:34:47
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:34:48
And then make it uniform sai you do multiple versions of these things. Go back to that image again, Jamie, the one you just showed me. Look at that head, man.
Speaker: 2
02:34:57
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:34:58
That looks like a fucking alien.
Speaker: 1
02:35:00
It totally looks like ai alien. The one other weird wrench that I I we should mention is there’s a proteomics expert who wants to remain anonymous because I think he doesn’t wanna be associated with the stigma of this case. He looked at some proteins from an isolated skull of the j types.
Speaker: 1
02:35:18
Now I don’t think the j types, the things that were rolled out from the Mexican Congress, are necessarily real. I think maybe they were made in homage to these things that do look more real. And he found, alpaca proteins on them. And so that that’s an important another important point that, you know, is a little fly in the ointment here.
Speaker: 0
02:35:36
So somebody probably made fake ones too. But but if there’s a market where you can get 7 figures for a real one, of course, ai gonna make some fake ones.
Speaker: 1
02:35:45
Totally.
Speaker: 0
02:35:45
100%. Yeah. But at the end of the day, like, what is vatsal? And why do they have three fingers? And the Lazar Ram, didn’t it have, like, some sort of an indentation for hands?
Speaker: 1
02:35:58
It did. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:35:59
And it didn’t have three fingers?
Speaker: 1
02:36:01
Oh, I don’t know. Did it? That would be wild. I don’t know.
Speaker: 0
02:36:04
I think it did. Oh ai gosh. I think it did. And I think it was really small, just like these things are.
Speaker: 1
02:36:12
We’re breaking ground on the Joe Rogan experience.
Speaker: 0
02:36:14
What if that’s it?
Speaker: 1
02:36:16
That’s crazy. You know?
Speaker: 0
02:36:17
And, also, here’s the thing. We have this concept of this coming from another planet, but it might not be from another planet. Yeah. It might be from here.
Speaker: 1
02:36:25
Hal Pudoff noted that on your show. He has a paper called the Silurian hypothesis, which is you have cataclysms like the Younger Dryas impact, you know, or Right. Other things like that. You have 66,000,000 years ago, Luis Walter Alvarez, you know, there’s the asteroid impact killed all the dinosaurs or whatever.
Speaker: 0
02:36:42
What ai Break off civilization. Just like this $21,000,000,000,000 is supposed to be funding.
Speaker: 1
02:36:46
There you go.
Speaker: 0
02:36:47
Right? Like, the underground those tunnels and caverns in Turkey, where they have this immense underground civilization or city rather.
Speaker: 1
02:36:54
And it almost felt like maybe they were hiding out from a cataclysm or something. Right.
Speaker: 0
02:36:58
And that’s what they think it was. Yeah. So imagine if there’s some break off civilization where they lived I mean, we’re talking hundreds of thousands of years ago, but they’re different than us. And, you know, sometimes they come visit. Could be, man. Could be. Which is one of the reason why they come out of
Speaker: 1
02:37:15
the ocean a lot. Totally. They’re transmedium. And, like, in some sense, you would care way more about the nuclear stuff. You’d be like, don’t destroy your plan. Don’t destroy our plan. Yeah. You We’re here.
Speaker: 0
02:37:26
You’ll kill us too, you stupid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It would also you’re you’re dropping nukes in the ocean.
Speaker: 1
02:37:32
You know? The Arya Islands test. Exactly.
Speaker: 0
02:37:36
That’s nuts.
Speaker: 1
02:37:37
Really nuts. Yeah. And I think yeah. It’s a whole other rabbit hole. I don’t know if you wanna get it.
Speaker: 0
02:37:41
Just see if you can find out if the Bob Lazar ones had handprints for three
Speaker: 3
02:37:47
There’s a hand scanner he talked about, but it wasn’t about three fingers.
Speaker: 0
02:37:50
No. The hand scanner was at Los Alamos.
Speaker: 3
02:37:54
I typed in Bob Lazar UFO three fingers. AI says his claims have nothing to do with aliens with your
Speaker: 0
02:38:01
What did he say, the controls for the the vehicle? Because
Speaker: 1
02:38:08
Sounds like mental. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:38:09
There’s something about putting your hands on something.
Speaker: 1
02:38:12
Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
02:38:14
I
Speaker: 0
02:38:14
believe there’s something. Helmet one fifteen. Didn’t it say something about controls, like, that there what did the inside of the craft look like? Inside of craft. So that’s Jeremy Corbell I
Speaker: 3
02:38:37
could skip through that real quick.
Speaker: 5
02:38:38
Out ones.
Speaker: 0
02:38:38
Ai see
Speaker: 3
02:38:39
what it says. Okay.
Speaker: 0
02:38:40
God, I sana say that they had three fingers.
Speaker: 1
02:38:44
That would be wild.
Speaker: 0
02:38:46
That’ll be fucking insane. Because they’re tiny. They have three fingers.
Speaker: 2
02:38:50
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
02:38:50
That’s these things.
Speaker: 1
02:38:51
He said the seats were very small. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:38:53
They’re supposed to, like, three feet tall or four feet tall. That’s these things.
Speaker: 1
02:38:56
There you go.
Speaker: 0
02:38:57
That’s these things. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:38:58
And they’re in the cave art. It looks like they’re flying. It’s, like, hard to say because it’s on caves or whatever.
Speaker: 3
02:39:03
Ai I
Speaker: 0
02:39:03
sana see that too. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:39:04
Yeah. There’s yeah. You can do tridactyl cave art. God. How weird. And how old is this cave art? I think it’s ai to the Nazca period, so around that time.
Speaker: 3
02:39:14
So
Speaker: 0
02:39:14
sai let’s go look up that first. You did? Tridactyl cave art. How weird. It’s all so fucking weird, man.
Speaker: 1
02:39:25
Yeah. It’s so weird. It’s
Speaker: 2
02:39:26
so weird.
Speaker: 0
02:39:27
It’s because it’s almost it’s almost like reality’s fucking with you. Yeah. It is.
Speaker: 1
02:39:33
It is. And you have, like, the Amazon is there’s probably one in my doc, Jamie, that I sent you.
Speaker: 3
02:39:39
There’s a couple there. Oh, there’s four. There’s one there.
Speaker: 1
02:39:42
There’s three. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:39:44
Woah. Three fingers and three toes. That’s crazy. Textile fragments. Yeah. Wow. Ai 1,000 AD. Woah. Yeah. Three fingers, three toes, big crazy head, weird eyes. How fucking strange, man.
Speaker: 1
02:40:04
So nuts.
Speaker: 0
02:40:05
There’s so much we don’t know and everyone’s scared of being ridiculous.
Speaker: 1
02:40:08
I know.
Speaker: 0
02:40:09
You know, everyone’s scared. This is one of the great things about what you do and what I do is we don’t have to worry about being ridiculous. Totally. Because we just are. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:40:16
And we don’t have to be ai, we have credentials. Right.
Speaker: 0
02:40:18
Right. Right. Right.
Speaker: 3
02:40:19
Just be
Speaker: 0
02:40:19
a normal about being taken seriously.
Speaker: 1
02:40:21
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:40:22
Because so meh people do worry about it and they don’t wanna stick their neck out. But when you see something like this, the three fingers three toed artwork from a thousand fucking years ago
Speaker: 1
02:40:31
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:40:32
And it looks really weird. And then you see these things, you’re like, hey. Is that real?
Speaker: 1
02:40:36
Totally. And discoveries require boldness. They require, like, just going for it. And it’s it’s yeah, it’s ai little bit this, like, kind of nitpicky credentialism of, like,
Speaker: 2
02:40:47
I can’t
Speaker: 1
02:40:48
I can’t say anything other than the establishment. What is your incremental addition then to human knowledge?
Speaker: 0
02:40:55
Right. And when faced with undeniable evidence, will you relent? Will you give in? Or will you just, like, will you just, like, dig your heels in forever and claim bullshit to the till you drop off
Speaker: 2
02:41:07
the face
Speaker: 0
02:41:08
of the earth? Like, what what’s going on with Egypt? You know, like, you know, and when I had Zahi Hawasson sana he’s just completely unwilling to look at that what is it? Tomography?
Speaker: 2
02:41:18
Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
02:41:19
The the data that shows that there might be something underneath the pyramids. Right.
Speaker: 2
02:41:23
This is bullshit.
Speaker: 0
02:41:24
This is is it a sure? Yeah. How do you know? You don’t even understand the science. How can you possibly know?
Speaker: 1
02:41:30
No first principles arguments around. Right. It’s just, no, it can’t be or whatever. And I’m ai, oh, so you’re it’s politics. It’s a science is supposed to be the most immune from politics, and it’s the most political thing. Weird. It is weird. When you
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02:41:45
find that out, it’s so disappointing.
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02:41:47
It’s sai disillusioning. Totally.
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02:41:49
And then when you have these scientists that, like, dismiss people and they immediately start using tear look at this one.
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02:41:56
That’s so wild. Woah.
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02:41:58
This whatever that thing is around it has a, like, one arm with three, and then one arm with three, and one foot with three, and one foot with three.
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02:42:04
Woah. What’s ai of it? Well, what is that supposed to be representing?
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02:42:09
Two heads? I don’t know.
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02:42:10
God. There’s a
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02:42:11
couple other things on the other page that had two heads the cats.
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02:42:14
Maybe two heads, but no eyes. How weird is that? Like, what is that?
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02:42:17
Big ai, one eye here, when Sai hear it. Two eyes an eye
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02:42:20
Or maybe that’s it inside something that it controls. You know what I’m saying? A little sports model. Right. Well, it’s showing the fingers, meaning, like, the fingers were or what operates this thing.
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02:42:32
Right. What
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02:42:32
are you
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02:42:33
seeing? Yeah. This is so nuts, man.
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02:42:36
It’s so crazy.
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02:42:37
All three fingers. Like, what are the fucking odds of that? Yeah. Yeah. What are the odds that this is a thousand years old, these images and these these textiles? And then you find this stuff. Totally. Like, what?
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02:42:48
And it’s in the mythology and Right.
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02:42:50
What the fuck is going on, man?
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02:42:52
I know. It’s so frustrating, Jesse. I’m with you, man. And the Amazon is the size of the Indian Subcontinent. We have to, like, lidar it ai, like, understand we’re finding cities every day. Like, we need to do the research.
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02:43:06
Yeah. We do. We do. Look at more of these. More three finger ones. God. Sai weird.
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02:43:12
They’re different too.
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02:43:13
Yeah. So weird. Ai,
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02:43:16
almost that weird bird that we looked at the other day with Luke. Yeah.
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02:43:20
It does.
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02:43:21
The thing that was on a petroglyph. Yeah.
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02:43:24
And next,
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02:43:24
I think.
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02:43:25
Luke, who, hopefully, will be an amazing guest on your shah. He’s been on. I know.
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02:43:30
He was amazing. Yeah. He’s fantastic. He was so good.
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02:43:33
He, he will say like, he’s been everywhere. Right? And, like, he’s always ai, Peru is the weirdest place I always go.
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02:43:40
Really?
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02:43:41
So Wow. Yeah.
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02:43:43
Well, dude, thank you so much for coming in. I fucking love your show. It’s so good. It’s excellent. American Alchemy, it’s on YouTube. Is it just Jesse Ai on YouTube? Like, how do they find the channel?
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02:43:54
Jesse Michaels on YouTube. I have a WAP, which is where we it’s called WHOP. It’s an amazing place where we facilitate discussions about cool science and frontier stuff. All this? I Sai don’t know. I’m I don’t sleep. Absorb,
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02:44:07
because your stuff is really well produced. Thank you. It must take an enormous amount of time to edit all that.
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02:44:12
Honestly, I’m burnt out.
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02:44:15
Listen, I’m glad you’re doing it. I really appreciate you.
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02:44:18
I appreciate you.
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02:44:18
Everybody go watch it. Go check out the channel. It’s fantastic. If they wanna find you on social media, what is your?
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02:44:25
My social media, it’s, Jesse Ai official on Ram. Outcomey Meh.
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02:44:29
Michaels official.
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02:44:29
No a. Thank you. Yes. Vein of my existence.
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02:44:31
Oh, is it? Yeah. Ai sure.
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02:44:33
Roll call back in the day.
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02:44:36
Alright. Well, thank you so much. It was fun.
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02:44:38
Joe, I
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02:44:38
appreciate it. Sometime when more shit’s gonna come out, hopefully. Let’s do it. Ai. Awesome, dude. Thank you. Alright. Bye, everybody ai.
