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#2328 – Luke Caverns Podcast Episode Description
Luke Caverns is an explorer-anthropologist and YouTuber. www.youtube.com/@LukeCaverns
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#2328 – Luke Caverns Podcast Episode Top Keywords
#2328 – Luke Caverns Podcast Episode Summary
In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, the conversation revolves around the exploration of ancient civilizations, the role of modern archaeology, and the impact of popular figures like Graham Hancock on public interest in history. The discussion highlights the tension between traditional academic approaches and independent researchers who challenge established narratives. A recurring theme is the democratization of knowledge through the internet, which allows for diverse perspectives and challenges the gatekeeping of information by academic institutions.
The episode features a guest who shares personal experiences and realizations about the importance of simple life pleasures, such as spending time with family, amidst a life filled with travel and exploration. This guest also discusses the influence of Graham Hancock’s work on their own career and interests, emphasizing the inspiration drawn from Hancock’s ability to engage a wide audience with his theories on lost civilizations.
Key insights include the importance of humility and openness in academic discourse, as well as the need for archaeologists to engage with the public in a more accessible and honest manner. The conversation also touches on the potential of ancient plant-based hallucinogens to offer spiritual insights, a topic that intersects with discussions on the limitations of current archaeological interpretations.
Overall, the episode advocates for a more inclusive approach to historical research, encouraging both professionals and amateurs to explore and question existing narratives. The overarching message is one of curiosity and the pursuit of knowledge beyond conventional boundaries, urging listeners to remain open-minded and critical of established authorities.
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#2328 – Luke Caverns Podcast Episode Transcript (Unedited)
Speaker: 0
00:01
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Showing my day Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
Speaker: 1
00:12
What’s up? How are you doing, man?
Speaker: 2
00:15
How How are you?
Speaker: 1
00:15
It’s great to meet you. It’s a
Speaker: 2
00:16
pleasure to meet you as well.
Speaker: 1
00:17
I really enjoyed you on the Jesse Ai podcast. So, I had to have you on.
Speaker: 2
00:21
Yeah. Well, thank you so much, man.
Speaker: 1
00:22
I love it when young people know so much about ancient history. Like, how did you get started in this?
Speaker: 2
00:29
Well, it’s it’s quite literally in my blood. Back in the late well, I should say the eighteen ai, my family, they were cattle rustlers, right here in the Hill Country. Actually, maybe a little bit further or quite quite a bit further west of San Antonio.
Speaker: 1
00:45
Damn. You come from a lot of criminals? Probably.
Speaker: 2
00:48
Yeah. There there’s a there’s a lot of there’s a lot of dark history in in here. And, so, they are they’re cattle rustlers that are out in Dryden, Texas, in Sanderson, Texas. And, I mean, right on the Rio Grande. And they were, that’s how they made their money. They were fascinated, kinda like everybody, with, with finding gold, with finding lost Spanish treasure, and and, you know, Native American artifacts.
Speaker: 2
01:12
So they’re living in this area called the Reagan Canyon and, Ai seen it all over the place. If you look on, I think, like, the Smithsonian did something on the top 10 forgotten places in The United States. It’s like the most remote areas of our country and somewhere in there is Reagan Canyon. And, so out there, they develop this fascination for looking for lost Spanish gold.
Speaker: 2
01:34
And, you know, there were bandits that would hide up in the hills, and they would sack Spanish caravans and drag the gold up into the hills to not get caught to hopefully come back for it tyler. And the the Spanish are out there mining for gold and everything. So my family gets caught up in one of the biggest mysteries of Texas history.
Speaker: 2
01:50
Ai, if you were to look up, if you were to go to some bookstore, there’s there’s a popular one called the Sana of Coronado. And it’s like this legacy of people looking for Spanish gold.
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01:58
Mhmm. And
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01:58
somewhere in there, my family will will be in there. And sai, this started in the eighteen nineties. And, there’s it’s this long saga of of, the gold being the treasure being dragged to San Antonio and all these people get killed and only one of these four Reagan brothers makes it out.
Speaker: 2
02:13
He gets involved in, in, oil drilling out in East Texas. And then, so ai family moved out to East Texas and then his son was born, which is my grandfather. And then, he continues this legacy of, of continuing his father’s oil company, but then he also begins gold mining in New Mexico.
Speaker: 2
02:31
And while he’s out in New Mexico, he hears these legends of these seven lost Spanish gold ai. And, because this local there was a local police officer who was like a treasure hunter and he knew who my grandfather was and the story behind our family. He sought them out and they went off looking together.
Speaker: 2
02:46
And and I don’t know how long it took them to find it, but he found the seven lost Spanish gold mines of New Mexico. And, and he opened up this, company called Three Bells Mining and Milling Company. And that was open for about eight years, and they opened up these they opened up these mines that go back to probably about the fifteen thirties.
Speaker: 2
03:06
Sai the Spaniards were up all the way in New Mexico in the fifteen thirties, and they were opening up Native American gold mines and expanding them. And so he found these gold mines that go hundreds of feet into the ground as this huge expansive, gold mining operation. Well, somebody dies after a smelter explodes and the company goes under. They lose everything. My family falls into poverty. My dad’s born during that ai.
Speaker: 2
03:31
And my dad didn’t really get to experience, like, all of that excitement. He had to spend his life climbing out of poverty. And, but he had this love for history. He had this, he had this love for for American history, really. And he instilled in me the importance of history growing up.
Speaker: 2
03:47
And that fascination of of exploration and, and kind of ancient American history, hearing those stories carried over into me during my childhood. And, and so Ai just I have always been fascinated by this. And, I guess, getting to where I am now, I I was halfway through my marketing degree in college.
Speaker: 2
04:06
And I’m, I’m sitting on my bed in my dorm room with my girlfriend at the time, who I’m married to now. And we watched the movie, The Lost City of Z, about Percy Fawcett. And something about that guy’s journey reminded me so much of my family. Ai reminded me of my dad, reminded me of my grandpa. And it changed something in meh.
Speaker: 2
04:23
Like, that day, I could not ignore I was probably 20 at the time. I could not ignore this love that I always had for ancient history. But, you know, archaeologists are poor. You know, they’re they’re it’s a extremely hard life and it’s really hard on on your family too. And I just knew I had to I had to create a life for myself where I could do what I loved because I had ai a 1.7 GPA in college and I was not going to to make it through my classes.
Speaker: 2
04:48
And sai, I changed. I got a degree in cultural anthropology. I wrote, like, we had a mock thesis statement. I wrote it on the Amazon and and the lost, lost civilizations and, you know, how they were wiped out from, from, Spanish influenza and, yes. That’s where I’m at today.
Speaker: 1
05:05
Wow. I I think everybody, when you start looking at the history of the human race and you start looking at the history of civilizations, everyone gets fascinated. Because we kinda ai woke up in this ai, you know. We didn’t choose to be born during this ai. We woke up in this timeline and we’re like, how did collectively we get here? And then you have this narrative of how collectively got we got here.
Speaker: 1
05:30
But then you see there’s holes in this narrative. Mhmm. And it’s real weird.
Speaker: 0
05:34
Yeah.
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05:35
And then you find out about asteroid impacts and super volcanoes and then there’s people like Zahi Hawass who are in charge of telling you what they know and this is the only answer and you’re ai, well, that guy’s not right.
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05:46
Yeah.
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05:47
And then you start, like, looking at guys like Graham Hancock. Why is everybody calling him a Nazi? Like, what the fuck? Yeah. And then you start getting deep into the weeds and this stuff and you’re like, ai. There’s a lot of resentment from the gatekeepers. There’s a lot of meh from the gatekeepers.
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05:58
There’s a lot of people that have been, they’ve been teaching a narrative and teaching in school and they don’t want anyone else teaching this stuff.
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06:08
Mhmm.
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06:08
They sana be the only people that can tell people Yeah. What the history of the human race is. And unfortunately for them, there’s too much other evidence. It’s too weird that the whole picture is not settled. It’s too strange, and they keep finding new things all the time that throw a monkey wrench into the gears of the ai of civilization. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
06:33
And so then, you know, you you find out about Egypt. And once Ai I mean, that was the big one for me. Once I found out about Egypt well, not found out about it, but you’re, like, really started exploring it, you know,
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06:44
post When you discovered every grain of sand
Speaker: 1
06:46
I discovered the doll. I was there. I dug the hole, when I,
Speaker: 2
06:54
That went about as well as I thought it would when he told me.
Speaker: 1
06:57
I was hoping it was gonna go a little better, honestly.
Speaker: 0
07:00
Well, he
Speaker: 2
07:00
had a great opportunity to, like, win over the popular audience and come in and make a really good impression, And he did exactly the opposite of it.
Speaker: 1
07:07
Well, I think there’s a bunch of problems there. Ego being one of them, but another one being a language barrier. Ai think so. And then, also years of battle. Like, if you’re in conflict with people about this very thing that we’re talking about for years and years and years, and these people that you’re in conflict with keep winning Yeah.
Speaker: 1
07:24
You know, like, I meh there was, an old documentary that was narrated by Charlton Heston.
Speaker: 0
07:30
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
07:30
He was the host of it. I don’t know if you ever saw this, The Mysteries of the Sphinx?
Speaker: 2
07:35
Yes. I’ve seen it I’ve seen it on YouTube. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
07:36
Yeah. Ai believe it was on television at the time. Mhmm. And, one of the the things in that was they were trying to talk about Robert Shah work with the water erosion around the temple of The
Speaker: 0
07:51
Sphinx.
Speaker: 1
07:51
And there was this very arrogant archaeologist. I don’t remember his name, but I never I remember he had a smackable face. He was just so arrogant. He’s like, where is the evidence Mhmm. Of this civilization that existed ten thousand years ago?
Speaker: 0
08:06
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
08:07
Well, now we have evidence. Now, like, sai, like Gobekli Tepe threw a giant monkey wrench into the gears of this narrative. And now, they’re forced to reckon with this, like, Zahe didn’t even know what Gobekli Tepe was, which was Yeah.
Speaker: 2
08:23
There was there was
Speaker: 1
08:24
a lot
Speaker: 2
08:24
there was a lot of things that he wasn’t familiar with, like Zeptepe Yes. Or the, it’s it’s either the Turin or the Turid King’s List, which, talks about the pre dynastic, like, semi mythological kings going back, you know, tens of thousands of years. Yes.
Speaker: 1
08:38
How do you Not know that.
Speaker: 2
08:40
You know, how was ai he the former head of the Ministry of Antiquities and Culture? How are you not familiar with this?
Speaker: 1
08:46
Right. Well, he just dismisses it Yeah. But aggressively
Speaker: 0
08:50
Yeah.
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08:50
Which is, like, there’s no way you know everything. Mhmm. There’s there’s no way. And then it was also the the data from the Italian scientists that were studying this tomography and this ability to look underground with satellite radar arya also dismissing that. But then I brought up a temple of Ai, but they looked into that. Like, you could see it. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
09:11
They have, ai, they they they showed where the chambers are. They it works. Mhmm. But this was only 50 feet in the ground. You know, like, okay. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
09:19
Pretty well.
Speaker: 1
09:20
Well, how do you know how work how deep that stuff goes? If it works 50 feet
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09:24
Yeah.
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09:24
Who’s to say it doesn’t work two kilometers
Speaker: 0
09:27
Yeah.
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09:27
Like they’re saying?
Speaker: 2
09:28
Yeah. Ai was having a, a conversation with, ai, my mentor, ai Ed Barnhart. He’s he’s a friend of, Graham. He was he was one of the, Graham’s guest experts on, season two of Ancient Apocalypse Yes. When he went to the Maya realm. He and I were talking this morning and he was like ai like, you know, it’s become a battle of, like, who has this right to talk about these things?
Speaker: 2
09:48
Right. Yes. Does does the fact that I have a degree in anthropology, that’s what gives me the right to have more of an opinion on somebody else. It that’s kind of what it what it’s become and it’s like and it’s like one side is accosting the other over their fascinations and their interests sana the fact that they’re able to make a living from the things that they’re fascinated about and talking about it.
Speaker: 2
10:09
Right. And, and it feels like academia has become bitter because, you know, being in the academic world, is a very rough and jaded place. Mhmm. And a lot of young ai archaeologists who existed, who maybe would have had an approach like me, but existed during this time where you could only have your pursuits if the university signed off on it.
Speaker: 2
10:35
Right?
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10:35
Right.
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10:35
But now, universities are ai ideologically captured and every little thing that you do has to be aligned with the university. And so all of your fascinating ideas that you have in your mid twenties, you know, to your mid thirties when you’re young and able to go off into the jungle and find something, they all get shut down by people who had their ideas shut down.
Speaker: 2
10:53
But now, it’s ai, it’s the Wild West where you can have somebody, like me or whoever put together an expedition and, you know, I legally cannot start digging up the ground and excavating things. But I can go and document things and survey things on my own, you know, with local permission, whatever.
Speaker: 2
11:08
But,
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11:09
can
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11:10
I legally dig things up in certain countries if you get permission? Or is
Speaker: 2
11:15
it Oh, well, I mean, yeah. If if I got if I got permission, but, I mean, you would be it would be next to impossible ram meh, for somebody like me to do that.
Speaker: 1
11:24
Ai would that be? What would be the hurdles?
Speaker: 2
11:26
Well, you would have the local universities there who also have their own, you know, high credentialed people who are gonna, you know, if I don’t come in with a PhD, I’m never gonna go get a PhD. But if I don’t come in with something like that, then I don’t have the experience.
Speaker: 2
11:38
I don’t have, you know, the authority to be able to do something like this. And they would never trust me to carry out, like, a good excavation.
Speaker: 1
11:45
Right. Not damage anything.
Speaker: 2
11:46
Yeah. Yeah. So they would never they would never trust that.
Speaker: 1
11:48
There’s there’s some reasonable some reasonable explanations for why.
Speaker: 2
11:53
Yeah. Yeah. Kind
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11:54
of. People have looted. Ai mean Yeah. Who knows how much of ancient Egypt is just gone. I mean, who knows?
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12:02
Oh, man.
Speaker: 1
12:03
So many wealthy people actually ate mummies.
Speaker: 2
12:05
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
12:05
You know, we
Speaker: 1
12:05
know about that. They they actually like, for people listening, I did you didn’t mishear me. They ate mummies. Uh-huh. They would bring them to these European aristocrats, would bring them to parties Mhmm. And people would consume the mummies Meh. Which is just ai, what were you guys drinking?
Speaker: 2
12:27
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
12:27
Yeah. It’s it’s ai gnarly, man. Diddy party where you guys have it over there where that was the idea.
Speaker: 2
12:31
It’s it’s gnarly, man. Yeah. So much of Egypt is is gone. And this is why I don’t think that, you know, ai, I love I love the the mystery of the ancient world and why I’m so baffled when people want to immediately shut anything down.
Speaker: 0
12:46
Yeah.
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12:47
Because of the amount of history that is lost to us is completely baffling. You know, Egypt has been getting looted, and we know for the last, let’s sai, three thousand years at least. Countries, foreign nations have been coming in and raiding Egypt and taking the artifacts out.
Speaker: 2
13:06
And so, you know, so much of the artifact, so much of the artifact record is lost. And I think that the real problem is the confidence with which somebody like Zahi speaks. Mhmm. It’s okay for you to have your your perspective in the way that you view the ancient world based on the data that’s been available to you.
Speaker: 2
13:24
It’s okay to have your opinions. But when you’re so confident about your opinions that you then begin to chastise other people, put them down for it, and then go the next the next mile and start making accusations of them being a racist and things like that. The Flint Dibble approach. That’s Yeah. Really not good.
Speaker: 1
13:41
Ai. It’s not good, but it’s ai that guy embodies what you don’t like about academia. You see him physically, he embodies it. Like, it’s like, that’s what it is. It’s these weak meh.
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13:51
Mhmm.
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13:51
These weird ai of bitchy speak men that decide that they’re in control of things and the way they shut people down is by casting the worst pejoratives on them. Especially, like, the the Graham Hancock stuff, calling him a racist. Like, what because he because he’s interested in Atlantis.
Speaker: 2
14:08
Ai I really did not like the letter that they wrote to Netflix to try to get season one taken down of Ancient Apocalypse. Disgusting. And, you know, they, sometimes they’ll rebuttal and say, oh, well, you know, I never blatantly called him a racist. Like, well, okay. Even if you didn’t blatantly do it, you insinuated it and you were okay with insinuating it.
Speaker: 2
14:26
And some of these people exist in a realm where in their little bubbles where they throw around the word racist Yes. All the ai. And then when they get to the wider world where the rest of us exist, they find out very quickly that none of we don’t throw that term around lightly and accuse people of these things.
Speaker: 2
14:42
And then, you know, at the end of the podcast, when he said, you asked, you know, things that ai of temperature came down and then Ai think maybe you asked something like, like, you know, well, what can people do to to help archaeology? And he was like, oh, well, you can donate to the SAA. Mhmm. But the SAA is the one that wrote the letter.
Speaker: 1
14:58
Right.
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14:58
And it’s like, oh, meh. That’s just, it’s it’s it’s, it’s not a good look.
Speaker: 1
15:03
Well, it’s a real problem with human beings, and ego when they have positions of power and authority, especially over something that is very esoteric. Mhmm. Something that is ai and also completely complex. Mhmm. Like, when you’re dealing with trying to sai hieroglyphs and trying to and then, you know, the fact that we know that the Ai of Alexandria was burned down, so who knows what was lost in that.
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15:30
Several different times, like, five different times.
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15:32
Gosh.
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15:33
Mhmm.
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15:33
Ai wonder who if any of that just got stolen out of there, and
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15:37
then they blamed it. I don’t ai how much
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15:38
of that sai the Vatican. The first time, Caesar is chasing his rival, Pompey, across the Meh. And Pompey flees to Alexandria. And, Alexandria was kind of in the basket of Rome. They the the Ptolemies, who arya the the Greek pharaohs in in Egypt. So the Greeks are controlling Egypt after Alexander comes in March. So Alexander ai. His best friend Ptolemy becomes pharaoh.
Speaker: 2
16:04
Sai, but the Ptolemies were very weak, not very good tyler. And so, Rome kind of does like what The US does, where they get pulled into conflicts, and then once they’re there and they conquer everything, they seize all the power, you know. And so, Rome had done this to, had done this to Egypt.
Speaker: 2
16:20
And so, they controlled Egypt, and they were pulling all of their, they were keeping the Ptolemies in power, the Roman soldiers were, and they were pulling all that grain into Egypt. And so, Caesar follows Pompey, chases him to to Alexandria and so that Caesar can’t or so that Pompey can’t flee, Caesar says, we’ll burn the docks.
Speaker: 2
16:40
Well, when you landed in Alexandria, you would land at this dock that went to, a road called Sana Road. So you had SoMa Road and Canopic Way and it was like the street corner. It must have been amazing to see in real ai. Like, think about this. You have the Ai of Alexandria. You all all this is all in one block. You have the Library of Alexandria.
Speaker: 2
16:57
You have the Museum, which is right next to it. Sai, both together, they make the world’s first university. And, I mean, you can just imagine, like, walking through those halls. Across the street from that is, Alexander’s mausoleum. So, his mausoleum, we think the emperor Hadrian, if you’ve heard of Hadrian before Mhmm. That he modeled his mausoleum on Alexander’s.
Speaker: 2
17:18
So we kind of have an idea of, like, what the mausoleum ram have looked like. You know, we have a marble statue of Alexander on top. So people arya walking by every day in the middle of this town and then across street from that is the palatial district where all the rich people live.
Speaker: 2
17:29
And then off by the bay, you would have had Cleopatra’s Palace. And so it’s this beautiful place, but when the boats come into the dock, you had to give up all the scrolls that you had because the Ptolemies are obsessed with obtaining the world’s knowledge and they want the originals.
Speaker: 2
17:41
They don’t want a copy. So what they would tell people is, you give us your writings, we’ll write down a copy and we’ll give you back your original. But what they would do is give back the copy and keep the original. And this is something called the ai wars. This is the whole thing.
Speaker: 2
17:56
So, but this one, it was connected to the docks. And so most of the buildings in Alexandria are made out of stone to prevent ai. But the interior of Alexandria’s library would have had all these wooden shelves that will cross where you’d stack all the scrolls in. So everything just maybe the actual structure of the building doesn’t burn down, but the entire interior of it burns up.
Speaker: 2
18:16
And so when, when Caesar sets fire to the docks to burn all Pompey ships, it crawls up the docks and burns the library down. Well, Augustus did the same thing what a decade and a half later. Augustus came and he seized Alexandria. And this is where this is when Cleopatra and Mark Antony ai. He seizes it. And then there are rebellions because the Alexandrians are very rebellious.
Speaker: 2
18:40
They don’t sana be ruled ai, ai the Romans. And, so there’s, I think it’s I think it’s Caracalla that, he was being made fun of by the Alexandrians. There was a theater in town. It’s actually the place where stand up comedy was invented in Alexandria. Yeah. So so Really?
Speaker: 2
18:58
And the butt of all the jokes was always the Roman emperor. So so you have people, like, talking shit about the Roman emperor standing up, you know, in the in the middle of Alexandria’s, theater. And so the Roman emperor was always the butt of the joke. Well, Caracalla, I believe it’s Caracalla.
Speaker: 2
19:13
He’s, one of the brothers in Gladiator two, the, the new Gladiator if you’ve seen it.
Speaker: 1
19:18
I haven’t seen it.
Speaker: 2
19:19
He’s he’s one of the brothers, but the movie doesn’t really depict the the actual emperors very accurately. But he gets tired of it. So he just comes down to Alexandria on like a royal visit and executes 25,000 people in the city of Alexandria and burns down parts of it. So he burned down the library for the third time. And then, there was another emperor named Aurelian, when a local Alexandrian declared himself the new Egyptian pharaoh.
Speaker: 2
19:45
I think he was a real Egyptian. He Egypt he he declared himself like the newest pharaoh and he he created this revolt. And then Aurelian had to come and put the revolt down and he burned down the library again. So this is we’re getting close to like March at this point. Now, in March, there was a there was a huge earthquake, that was off of the coast of Crete, I think, which is the most southern, Greek ai.
Speaker: 2
20:12
And it’s where the Minoans lived. I I believe it’s there or it’s off the coast of Cyprus. And so that earthquake ai like just, reverberates down to Egypt in this massive tsunami destroys the entire city of Alexandria. And it said it was so catastrophic that, I think it’s Pliny the Elder or Pliny the Younger comes down in a rescue mission from from Italy and he comes to Alexandria.
Speaker: 2
20:35
And he records that 50,000 people in the city are missing because of, you know, the the wave that gets pushed in and that all of the giant boats, these are giant giant gigantic boats in Alexandria’s harbor arya sitting on top of all the rooftops in the city. And it’s after this point that the location of Alexander’s body and the location of Alexandria’s library just completely go missing.
Speaker: 2
20:59
So so they’re both utterly destroyed, and most likely, all of the giant stones that were used to build the city were repurposed for, you know, other things. But, in one fail swoop, Alexandria’s library, the Museum, and Alexander’s Mausoleum completely disappear from the historical record.
Speaker: 1
21:16
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22:06
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Speaker: 3
22:29
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Speaker: 1
22:38
It just shows you how vulnerable knowledge is. Mhmm. I really think about that today because, obviously, we have a lot of books and most things that arya, like, most physics work, most work on archaeology, most work on history is is available in book form. But how much of what we have is on hard drives? And if there is a power outage, just a global worldwide powder power outage that lasted six months. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
23:09
We’re fucked. Like Yeah. We we don’t know anything
Speaker: 0
23:12
anymore. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
23:12
It’s it’s a small amount of time for an enormous cataclysmic disaster to completely erase tens of thousands of years of understanding of everything. Yeah. Everything. We we we would have no knowledge. One generation removed from electronics would have no knowledge of how to recreate it, what steps need to be taken, what what you have to build a chip plant?
Speaker: 1
23:36
Where where are they right now? They’re in Taiwan? What what the fuck are you talking about? How are we gonna do this? Hard drives?
Speaker: 0
23:41
That’s a
Speaker: 2
23:42
precarious place to
Speaker: 1
23:42
happen to be. Starting from scratch starting from scratch today, we would be very similar, I think, to probably what starting from scratch was post the great flood.
Speaker: 0
23:54
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
23:54
Post the great common impacts, all the Yeah. Younger ai impacts their stuff. Civilization, if that stuff is correct, if if there is, if Graham’s position and Randall Carlson’s position is that there was probably a much more advanced civilization than just hunter gatherers that lived Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
24:15
Ten thousand plus years ago. How many thousands of years would it take before we started calming down again? Well, it seems like it took about five, four or five thousand years before civilization emerges.
Speaker: 2
24:27
A really long time.
Speaker: 1
24:28
A really long time.
Speaker: 2
24:29
Ai I think about that with, like, foraging, you know? Mhmm. Ai was reading, yesterday, I was reading, Exploration Faucet. Have you ever read this before or listened to the audiobook? It it’s his it’s Percy’s Percy Faucet’s? Personal diary. Yeah. So you have, you have You can
Speaker: 1
24:43
there’s an audiobook of that?
Speaker: 2
24:44
Yeah. Yeah. It’s on Audible. Yeah. Dude, you’ll get wrapped up in it. You won’t be able to stop listening to it. You know, he just has these amazing experiences. And, ah, meh, he would be ai your best like your all time guest,
Speaker: 0
24:57
you know, if you could have him on.
Speaker: 2
24:58
Sure. But Ai I would
Speaker: 1
24:59
get a great accent too.
Speaker: 2
25:01
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And, and so, you listen to his audiobook and, the way he talks about meeting the indigenous people that live deep in the Amazon. You know, it would take him weeks to get to these little villages. And while he was out there, he would see ai the systematic mathematical structure with which they would set up these giant villages and how they would build these huge ai thatch wood, homes with foundations that are stones.
Speaker: 2
25:29
And these people were he said that they had, like, beautiful sai. They spoke elegantly. They sang songs. And he was like he’s like he’s like, this isn’t he’s like, these people in the Amazon are not primitive savages ai my colleagues at the the, Royal Geographic Society in London believe that they are.
Speaker: 2
25:47
These are people who are the fallen or are are the descendants of a fallen great civilization. He was ai, the way they interact with each other is so sophisticated and the way these people go.
Speaker: 1
25:56
They were the descendants of a fallen civilization and not the the people that were currently living in, the most modern version of the civilization?
Speaker: 2
26:09
I I don’t quite know. You know, there’s some things that are that are left out. Like, he has he has some before he started writing this, I think he always had these ideas in the back of his mind. Mhmm. And sai, you don’t really get the origin of why he initially started thinking this.
Speaker: 2
26:23
But, you know, while he’s exploring South America, he’s hearing all these stories of of, you know, semi contacted people. Ai, you have natives who still live the the native life, but they can speak Spanish. And he could speak a little bit of Spanish and communicate with these people.
Speaker: 2
26:38
So he would hear about, oh, yeah, you know, there’s this there’s this huge city of gold off, you know, off in the jungle, months traveled that way. And it’s the same kind of legend that all these Spaniards had heard. So it’s this idea of there’s, well, there was this civilization that used to be out there.
Speaker: 2
26:53
And sai, Percy thought that maybe it has something to do with Atlantis. And sai, that was part of his journey looking for it. And then, he, it’s actually his wife, Nina Fawcett, I believe. When she’s in a library in England, she finds a Portuguese document. I think it’s manuscript five one two.
Speaker: 2
27:13
Have you ever heard of this? No. I could have the name of it wrong, but I think it’s manuscript five one two. And in that, it’s these guys who are kind of like semi professional Portuguese explorers in this mid seventeen hundreds that are going around Brazil. And they find this huge stone city with statues that they thought looked like Greek gods in the middle of the Amazon.
Speaker: 2
27:36
And so, you know, the perception, ai, my perception looking back through it is like, well, I mean, yeah, these are Portuguese guys who come from Europe. So when they see something that’s native, their only lens to see it through is what they’ve grown up knowing, which is the Greek and Roman world.
Speaker: 2
27:48
So that’s how they communicate this idea. But they found this big stone city in the in the middle of, I think it’s I’m pretty sure it’s Brazil’s jungle. And so, this was completely forgotten until Percy’s wife found this. So, you know, when he first went down to the Amazon, he was only there on a mapping expedition on behalf of, on behalf of, Great Britain, which he was probably a spy.
Speaker: 2
28:10
I’m I’m guessing that that’s what was actually happening there because he was a spy when he was in the military. And I think what he was doing is on an official basis, he’s charting, the border around Brazil, with the Amazon River. But really, what he’s doing is collecting information sai that maybe Great Britain can have a colony there someday. But then the war Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
28:28
But then the war, disrupts all of that. And he has to go fight in World War one, which is funny because it’s the same thing the Nazis were doing in the nineteen thirties. But, anyways, so while he’s there on his first, while he’s there on his first expedition, he doesn’t initially I think, he’s interested in these ideas of ancient history, but it’s when he’s there and he’s off in the jungle, he’s finding all these artifacts on the ground and he was like ai like, you know, the way that the pottery there’s clay pottery and then there’s, you know, stone vessels and and ai, eating utensils that he was ai, really elegant little statues and things.
Speaker: 2
29:04
He found one that was made out of this ai sana black stone that he could never and it had this glow to it. And he could never, maybe not a glow, but ai, like if you shine the light on it, you can tell that it’s translucent in a way. Mhmm. I’ve seen stones like this in the Aztec realm. They have these scepters. They have these orb things on the top.
Speaker: 2
29:23
And if you shine a light on it, it’s like this otherworldly looking thing. I can only imagine if you’re on, like,
Speaker: 1
29:28
peyote. Stone?
Speaker: 2
29:29
I I don’t know. And it’s missing now. It’s lost. It it it went missing with him or somewhere in in his expeditions that doesn’t exist anymore. But there’s an illustration of it in exploration faucet that you could find. And so he thought, like, when he was seeing all this on his first expedition, he’s ai, wait.
Speaker: 2
29:44
These aren’t these primitive savages that all my colleagues that I don’t even like back home think these people are. This is a this is an advanced culture. There there’s something that’s lost here. And so, Percy didn’t know if it was a fallen civilization that lived in the Amazon or whether it was still out there somewhere.
Speaker: 2
30:01
And he was trying to find either the ruins of it or the living city. Right? So he didn’t really know if it was fallen or not. So that’s
Speaker: 1
30:08
It’s still interesting that he would think that way instead of this is the pinnacle of civilization in the Amazon, which is why they’re so advanced.
Speaker: 2
30:17
I’m not ai. It’s not like
Speaker: 1
30:18
a preconceived notion that he had that there was an advanced civilization and that it had fallen. Yeah. Yeah. If you’re looking at the way the people were living, the way he’s describing it, it sounds pretty advanced.
Speaker: 2
30:27
Sure. Sure. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
30:28
Why
Speaker: 1
30:28
wouldn’t you assume that these people had lived for thousands of years and eventually bryden to this current level?
Speaker: 2
30:34
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I don’t know.
Speaker: 0
30:36
I I don’t know. I don’t know.
Speaker: 1
30:37
That’s the problem with preconceived notions too.
Speaker: 2
30:39
Yeah. But I do know that that he had he had the utmost admiration and respect for these people. Like, he he was completely infatuated with their way of life and trying to, you know, what his goal was was to prove that the, that the ai the narrow minded perspective of the English aristocrats who thought that they were the pinnacle of civilization.
Speaker: 2
31:00
He was determined to prove them wrong. Mhmm. And so, he had a great admiration for these people. And he wanted to try to find like a like a big, big civilization, something with enough people that could rival, that could rival Europe. And where he went missing, was in the Maragrosso region of Brazil.
Speaker: 2
31:20
And, and the last place that they know that he was at was on 05/29/1925, and he wrote a letter to his wife from Dead Horse Camp. And he was like, it may be a while before you hear from me. It could be up to a year or two before you hear from me. I’m about to head into a very dense area and my trail runners who would, you know, go back and forth with his notes, they weren’t sana follow him out there because it’s too dangerous.
Speaker: 2
31:41
And, that was the last letter that he had written. And he was going he was heading off into what’s called the Zingo Region, which is, like the Zingo River. And it’s one of the most hostile regions in the Amazon, maybe even maybe even today. Teddy Roosevelt had trouble when when he went there.
Speaker: 2
31:58
But the Xingu region is where all of the major ai came out within the last ten years of of they found all the ruins of these giant cities. And there’s a city called Kiriguyu, I think. And, it had an estimated, population of about a million people, which is the size of Rome. Wow.
Speaker: 2
32:17
And, you know, when you look at the lidar images, you can’t get a perspective of how big they are. I I have access to a lidar database of the entire United States. And I’ve mapped all kinds of, huge, uncharted mound sites in Florida, all of the Southeast. I have hundreds of sites marked. And when you first look at them on a map, you’re like, oh, okay.
Speaker: 2
32:39
Like maybe that looks like it’s 50 feet long or something. No. They’ll be like 300 yards long, like these giant raised platforms in the in the middle of the forest here in The US. And if I had access to ai data like that where I ai measure it down in the Amazon, some of these things are miles long.
Speaker: 2
32:55
Like, raised platforms are a mile long. And they have and they have highways ai, you know, maybe we should pull up a, just an image of a ai sai from the Amazon. But you’ll you’ll see this, vatsal, city area. You’ll see step pyramids and raised platforms. Maybe this is where people lived or maybe this is where the market was.
Speaker: 2
33:14
And there will be a road that cuts straight through it. And you can see the road just goes off in the distance for miles and miles and miles. And sai, what they would do Here we go. Yeah. This is, so this is one of these sites in, this this is one of these sites.
Speaker: 2
33:27
I believe this is in Brazil ram maybe it’s in Northeast Bolivia.
Speaker: 1
33:30
And is all that area covered completely with jungle right now?
Speaker: 2
33:33
Completely covered in jungle. Yeah. So if you went out there
Speaker: 1
33:36
You wouldn’t see any of those.
Speaker: 2
33:37
You may not realize that you were standing on a mountain. Like, you really gotta train your eyes. You know, I put out this, I filmed this little series about a year and a half ago called Jungle of Saloni, where I was going through the jungles in Central America and we charted, this city that had 16 pyramids in it.
Speaker: 2
33:54
You know, we were there all day long and we and we charted 16 pyramids. And when I put it out, I got all these comments like, you’re not doing anything but walking on a bunch of hills because it’s so hard to see it. The jungle just claims everything back. So it takes you You really have to sit with seeing these things in person for a while before you start recognizing, oh, that is a mound or that is a pyramid, that is a structure under the jungle.
Speaker: 2
34:15
And sai, Percy Fawcett, he Where where that ai came out is one of the places that he told his wife. He didn’t shah this publicly where where he thought that the city was, but it’s it’s ai bang on. He was he was exactly correct about where he thought a city would be. And we don’t know if he reached it or not. Wow.
Speaker: 1
34:34
It’s so interesting because how long has lidar been around for?
Speaker: 2
34:38
I don’t know.
Speaker: 1
34:38
And how long has it been used? I mean, think about for how long people had no idea that this existed because it was completely covered with jungle. They just assumed that there was evidence of a
Speaker: 0
34:50
civilization, it’d be pretty obvious. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
34:51
Yeah. But it’s not. And it makes you wonder, like, as technology increases in its potential, like, what other new technologies will be discovered that will allow you to instead of, like, having this ambiguous view of under the pyramids Yeah.
Speaker: 0
35:03
Have, like, a crystal clear Oh, man.
Speaker: 1
35:03
Like, accurate, you know, ai, like, a crystal clear
Speaker: 0
35:06
Oh, man.
Speaker: 1
35:07
Ai, accurate meh by dimension, almost like a three d map.
Speaker: 2
35:11
This this century, for sure. This century is gonna be insane. It’s gonna be insane. Like Yeah. You’re gonna have everyone scanning everything. Mhmm. All of the Amazon will be mapped with Ai by the end of this century. All of the Sahara’s gonna be mapped with LIDAR by the end of this century.
Speaker: 1
35:27
The Sahara’s a big one.
Speaker: 2
35:28
Yeah. Yeah. Well, those are my two those are my two big things. Like, when we talk about Atlantis and we talk about lost civilizations, I mean, my thing is
Speaker: 0
35:35
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
35:36
The Sahara and, the Sahara and the Amazon. You
Speaker: 1
35:40
know? Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
35:40
Both of these things existed pre ai age, especially if we’re talking about pre ice age civilization. The Sahara is a is an oasis, you know, meh thousand plus years ago. It’s an oasis. You have, what, two or three of the world’s largest, lake systems on there. You have rivers everywhere.
Speaker: 2
35:56
You know, it would have been ai a a beautiful place to live.
Speaker: 1
36:00
Abundant resources, so there’s no worry about food Mhmm. Shelter. Yeah. You have plenty of time to figure things out, which is the thing that has always made sense to meh. If you know the history of the Nile Valley and where Egypt was, like, that was a wonderful place to live to try to figure things out. Right?
Speaker: 1
36:17
Because you have so much food. Mhmm. And once you have so much food and you’re kinda separated from everybody, it’s really tough to get to you. So, like, they lived unchallenged Mhmm. In that civilization for thousands of years.
Speaker: 2
36:28
Well, yeah. Yeah. That that’s amazing. And, you know, whenever I, you know, so so growing up, I mean, gosh, I read Fingerprints of the Gods when I was 16. I remember, like, sitting on the couch after school and reading it. And ai dad’s, like, comes up to meh, like, that’s a big book. And I go, I know.
Speaker: 2
36:44
It’s like I’m reading a textbook for fun, you know. And and it was, it was it was dense reading for me as a 16 year old. And so, you know, I I was so inspired by by Ram. And then I went off and, like, got traditionally educated. And, so I kinda have both of these perspectives. And I’m off I’m often shocked and disappointed at how other professional archaeologists and anthropologists explain popular mysteries, you know.
Speaker: 2
37:09
Like, there was an Egyptologist on on another popular podcast, and and, then the podcast host asked him to, properly explain, like, you know, the mystery around the pyramid. And it was just so subpar I was shocked. And I was like, I’m not even an Egyptologist. I know how to explain these things.
Speaker: 2
37:25
And I felt the same way about Zahi. Maybe there’s some ai of language barrier there, but it was also ai he didn’t want to explain these things on a basic level. But one of the things that I never see talked about is the concentration of energy along the the the Nile Vatsal. Like, okay.
Speaker: 2
37:42
So, you know, if I had to if I had to put a drop a pin anywhere on the earth where I think Atlantis would be, I would probably put it ai in the Sahara somewhere, you know, along one of these major lakes where there’s a lot of people living at one time. And then later on, as the Sahara dries up, you know, say beginning around like August or Ai sorry, August, it starts rapidly drying up.
Speaker: 2
38:05
It’s probably a little bit before that. And then by about 4,000 BC, it’s completely dry. So your Saharans only have a few places that they can go. They can go to the Mediterranean Coast. They can go to the Atlantic Coast. They can go down kind of into the Congo and in the in the savannas.
Speaker: 2
38:18
Or they can go to this fertile valley oasis where it’s ai 500 yards on each side where it’s just completely lush tropical oasis. And so some people went there. And so you have this hyper concentration of energy and all these people living somewhere together for what we know is the first time in history, like we can verify it, I guess, if that makes sense.
Speaker: 2
38:41
And, and so rather than being able to have these huge pieces of property where they can all live separated from each other, kind of like in the Sahara, you have all this space and sai luxurious. Now, you have to live on top of each other and you have to build up these cities or, you know, you’re like building cities.
Speaker: 2
38:57
And sai, all that energy compacted into one place in this fertile oasis is either destined to completely crumble and fall apart or it’s New York City. It’s this thin strip of highly concentrated, genius, hardworking people figuring out how to extrapolate the most out of their natural world and create some of the greatest things the world has ever seen.
Speaker: 2
39:19
Just like New York City, we did it, you know. And, I’ve never seen any Egyptologist explain things that way. I I think that’s I think that’s a good explanation at least. And I’m open to things in Egypt being much older ai the Sphinx is definitely older than the pyramids. But, I’m just always disappointed at, like, the very low level with which, archaeologists and anthropologists will come in and try to explain things to a popular audience.
Speaker: 2
39:46
And it’s kinda like you’re asking, okay, but how do you know that? Like, explain that to me Right. In a way that I can understand how do you know this. And then there’s never a proper explanation. And I don’t know what that is.
Speaker: 2
39:55
It’s like it’s like they strongly dislike the fact that there’s mystery out there and that there are other people who are attempting to enter the mystery that are not part of the Good Boys club. Mhmm. You know? So they have this Exactly it. So they have this knee jerk reaction to it all. They hate all of it.
Speaker: 2
40:13
They don’t wanna be a part of all of
Speaker: 0
40:14
it. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
40:14
And, that’s not gonna work going forward. Like,
Speaker: 0
40:19
you know, not
Speaker: 2
40:19
to be political, but this, but this recent election showed that, you’re gonna have to appeal to the popular audience in the future. Everyone is, you know.
Speaker: 1
40:27
Yeah. And especially when there’s these forums now ai YouTube, where someone like you can put up videos explaining things or Jimmy Corsetti or Graham Hancock, like, the the access to people to share fascinating ai, It’s not limited to universities anymore, and I think that drives them crazy.
Speaker: 1
40:46
Yeah. Because they speak so much time being in control. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, it’s just like and then through a lot of these appearances ai Flint Dibble and Zahi, their credibility erodes publicly in in front of everyone’s eyes. And then, you know, there’s people that are gonna support both of them on either ai, and who knows how much of it is even real. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
41:08
Because now we have AI bots and that they get turned loose by whether it’s, universities, like the University of Zurich that just got in trouble for running that experiment with social media, which is really wild. Yeah. So we don’t even know, like, how much of it is organic until you see some something like voting.
Speaker: 1
41:25
And then you go, oh, this is how people really feel. But how much of that has even been influenced by all these Ai campaigns? But we do know is that human arrogance has always been a real problem. And the same thing that Percy Foster was probably dealing with or Percy Foster rather
Speaker: 0
41:40
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
41:40
Was probably dealing with when he was, you know, the the people back home that thought these people were primitive.
Speaker: 0
41:45
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
41:45
Yeah. It’s like this arrogance that human beings Looking
Speaker: 2
41:47
down their nose at everybody.
Speaker: 1
41:48
People love to be experts. They love to be experts and they love to and they also equate their own self worth with being accurate about information that you really can’t be accurate about.
Speaker: 2
42:00
Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker: 1
42:00
Instead of just being humble, but yet knowledgeable Yeah.
Speaker: 0
42:04
Yeah. Which is a
Speaker: 1
42:05
great position, you know. And when you talk to someone and they’re humble and knowledgeable, that’s a those are my favorite conversations because they they’ll tell you what they know and what they don’t know and this is why. Yeah. Archaeologists are not doing that, which is why they’re rejecting people at Graham Hancock.
Speaker: 1
42:19
What they should be doing is embracing the work that he’s doing because because he’s self funded Yeah. And because he’s just selling books and, you know, and doing his thing and appearing on podcasts and developing this audience. He’s allowed to do all these fantastic voyages. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
42:38
Like, he’s in Iraq right now, like, studying the ancient Sumerian civilization, like, with the remnants of it.
Speaker: 2
42:44
Yeah. Well, there’s, there’s two things ai I sai there. You know, kinda ai, I guess, a running theme of this is is we’re about to enter into, like, archaeological ai west in a way. You know, I think that, you know, Jimmy getting involved with, with Gobekli Tepe and and the trees that were there, having the trees, the orchards planted over the sites.
Speaker: 1
43:06
And they’re removing them now.
Speaker: 2
43:08
Yeah. And and it’s just it’s just proof that a guy like, I I started watching Jimmy two thousand eighteen. I mean, gosh, was I I just graduated from high school. And, and so he was kind of, like, inspired me to be like, you know, he was this young charismatic guy that could go online and and research topics and enthusiastically present these topics.
Speaker: 2
43:28
And and, and he was effective at doing it and and ai me for a long time. And, and, you know, lo and behold, I ai, what, six, seven years later, he’s still at it. And he’s actually not just inspired people to be interested in the ancient world, but but had an actual effect on something on the opposite side of the planet.
Speaker: 2
43:46
Like, when all this happened, I was like I was like I was like, yeah. I mean, I get the concern, but I don’t think the Turkish government cares what any of us over here in The US think. Sure enough, they removed the trees. And then there’s kinda like the backpedaling of of, oh, well, it was always in the plan to remove the trees.
Speaker: 2
44:00
But I I think it’s I think, you know, people might disagree with Jimmy’s approach, whatever. Mhmm. But, but it’s you can’t deny the fact that he himself, an independent guy, was able to make so much noise that he affected a government on the opposite side of the planet.
Speaker: 0
44:15
Yeah. You
Speaker: 2
44:16
know? And it’s, and and in a way, it’s like, it shows me, like, oh, you know, these these expeditions that that I’m planning and things that I’m gonna go out and survey and document for myself, like, these can make these can make real changes. And these are things I have planned in Florida, here in the here in the Southeast, in The States, in Central America and in the Amazon. And it’s ai encouraging.
Speaker: 2
44:36
Like, wow. I mean, we’re really approaching a time when independent people are gonna start making real noticeable differences and not just in the digital space that where people are interested in.
Speaker: 1
44:47
Right. But in the physical archaeology.
Speaker: 2
44:49
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
44:50
Jamie’s so meticulous too. Like, he’s such a good representative because he’s really intelligent, really thought provoking, but also really honest about what he knows and what he doesn’t know, and he has counter arguments to his own points. He’ll taste tell you something and then but also it could be this. Mhmm. And this is what we know.
Speaker: 1
45:08
And because he’s been really careful in the way he expresses himself, he’s established this community that understands what he does, and they trust him. And they go, no. No. No. He’s gonna tell you the truth. He’s gonna tell you what we know and why we know it. He’s not gonna make any weird ideological leaps.
Speaker: 1
45:27
He’s not gonna make any weird judgments. He’s just gonna lay out what is fascinating about these things. And because of that, whether he has a degree or not agree degree, that ai having a massive impact. Mhmm. I mean, I don’t know how many Nobody can deny that. What does Bright Sai YouTube channel have for subscribers?
Speaker: 1
45:47
And it by the way, if you haven’t watched any of his videos, can’t recommend them enough. Love the guy. Love the stuff.
Speaker: 0
45:53
1.7.
Speaker: 1
45:54
One point seven. By the way, he’s been called a Sai,
Speaker: 2
45:57
which is Yeah.
Speaker: 1
45:58
Yeah. Which is, that’s just that’s what they use. That’s the these are the terms, you know, he’s been called all all sorts of terrible things. None of them are true. He’s a wonderful ai. And he’s just a a man who’s deeply fascinated with these mysteries. And when he’s pointing out the things that we cannot with Bryden and Lebanon, the the trillion what they call the trillion stuff?
Speaker: 2
46:22
Trilithon stuff. Trilithon stuff. Trilithon stuff.
Speaker: 1
46:24
Yeah. What what are the whatever there’s certain things that you can point out that people go, okay, what the fuck? Like, he gets to the what the fuck stuff where everybody’s like, okay, what else you got? You know, like, how come I didn’t know this? How come this isn’t ai something like when you’re talking about ancient history, the history of, whether it’s Lebanon or Egypt and when they start talking about these things and they lay out the the histories of the pharaohs and
Speaker: 0
46:47
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
46:48
Why aren’t you talking about the distance? They carried these fucking enormous 80 ton rocks through the mountains and how they cut them. Like, why that’s the mystery. Yeah. Yeah. This is the big piece of evidence that these guys just want to meh. Oh, it sai the national project. Mhmm. You know, like, okay. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
47:10
But that doesn’t say how you did that No. Five thousand years ago. You need to help me out here.
Speaker: 2
47:15
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
47:16
And when these openings exist sana guys like Jimmy run through them, but meticulously document things and talk about them with humility and talk about them with a general understanding of the absolute undeniable facts. And then it creates this enormous audience. And then because of that enormous audience, he has a huge impact Yeah. On actual archaeology. And that’s why they hate him.
Speaker: 1
47:39
It’s just because he’s doing their job better than they’re doing their job because he’s not trapped. He’s not stuck in this compartmentalized ai position of working for a university.
Speaker: 0
47:54
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
47:54
And he doesn’t have to worry about funding, and he doesn’t have to worry about, you know, being chastised by his peers because they’re all a bunch of bitches. He doesn’t have to worry about that. So he’s free. And there’s a bunch of those guys that are emerging now, and guys like yourself.
Speaker: 1
48:08
And I think that’s really important because the gatekeepers have been wrong every step of the way with almost everything, whether it’s medical science, whether it’s health and nutrition, whatever it is. Like, we they’ve been wrong every damn step of the way. So maybe open it up. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
48:25
Just like the Internet opened up information to everybody, we need to open up the exploration of information to everybody and not have it contained with a few people that have degrees from places that we know are ai captured. We can see how they behave. We can see the things they say and the way they do things and the way they act and the way even the way they affect enrollment based on race and gender and sexual preference.
Speaker: 1
48:50
Like, you guys are fucking crazy. This is not how you’re supposed to handle knowledge and information. This is a dumb approach and we see that through basically every place where there’s a few group of people, this isolated insulated group of people that has the ultimate influence over whatever particular field of study is their specialty.
Speaker: 1
49:13
It’s just a danger that the human ego and the human mind fall prey to almost every single time. The Internet, what it’s done is it’s like this great equalizer and it’s just It is. It it has allowed people to have these and you hear a lot of people saying, you shouldn’t do this, you shouldn’t be doing this, don’t do your own research, and don’t like, those are stupid sayings.
Speaker: 1
49:37
Like, you can’t think like that. You there’s gonna be people that say things that are absolutely ludicrous, and you have to be able to listen to them and then listen to people that are more intelligent and and and more rational and also objective shah ai is that’s ai I’m interested in.
Speaker: 1
49:53
I mean, I’m interested in this guy.
Speaker: 0
49:54
Sai know
Speaker: 1
49:55
he’s not gonna lie.
Speaker: 0
49:56
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
49:56
You know? And there’s too many instances of archaeologists just ai. Mhmm. Lying and attacking each other. When one of tyler, like, clothes first like that.
Speaker: 2
50:05
Yeah. Yeah. Well, attacking each other. I mean, I I just experienced this the other day. You know, so I had a and Ai guess being early on in my career, I’m passionate about so many different things and Ai the kind of person that’s like, ai, I’m passionate about this. This is what I’m gonna do.
Speaker: 2
50:21
And so I, I applied to the University of Athens in Greece and I I was really into the classics and and, I was gonna go for that. And then I I just had this, let’s just say Ai was in the jungle and I had a a ai opening experience. And I was reminded of the fact that, my purpose here, the reason I started doing all this was continuing kinda like my family’s legacy.
Speaker: 2
50:42
And I’m interested in a lot of different things. And I’m not I’m not gonna specialize. I’m not gonna like hunker down in this academic path or whatever. And so I I just decided Ai I’m not gonna go go through with this. So I start, you know, publishing, you know, content in my research on on The Americas again. And, and The Americas are very mysterious.
Speaker: 2
51:01
It’s, I mean, very comparable to Egypt. It was just the amount of questions that haven’t been answered is insane. And, the Olmec world is fascinating. Mhmm. And so, you know, there’s, you know, Graham in, in Fingerprints of the Gods, he talks about how the the, the Olmecs, he thought that they may have, like like, like African features.
Speaker: 2
51:23
And, of course, that was 1995. And so, I don’t know, 2015, you guys are talking and and he’s like he’s like, well, you know, I published that then, but DNA researchers come out that says that, you know, these people don’t have African DNA in them and that maybe this is Polynesian, maybe this is Australasian people intermixing and that’s why they have this unique look, whatever.
Speaker: 2
51:42
But in the Olmec world, there’s this monument that is actually called El Negro. And you look at it and it’s not an Olmec. It is an African man. And, and so I post about this on my on my ex account, and I just kind of like list everything I’ve seen in the Olmec world. And I’m like I’m like, you know, this is really fascinating. Maybe this is evidence of Africans who were in, who were in the Olmec world.
Speaker: 2
52:03
And I hadn’t seen this monument before I saw it in person. Because you go in the Olmec in the Olmec realm in, or the region in Meh, and you go to these museums and you look at the the the log or the ledger that people have been on, and nobody nobody has visited this museum in the last four months.
Speaker: 2
52:17
And before that, it was, you know, six months before that. And these monuments just kinda sit underneath these, metal roofs, you know, to protect them from the rain. And it’s like this just this completely lost civilization.
Speaker: 1
52:28
Is there an image of this that’s available online?
Speaker: 2
52:30
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. There we go. So if you pull up an Olmec head, you’ll see that these guys are very different looking. And especially if you can get Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Look at, okay. So that’s, yeah. Okay. So that’s a regular Olmec head.
Speaker: 2
52:46
So you can see that these are two different races of people. You know, the Olmecs have very soft features, round faces, big eyes, big lips, ai of big noses. They have very soft features. And this El Negro monument has these high cheekbones, this defined jawline, this intense
Speaker: 0
53:04
But isn’t
Speaker: 1
53:04
there a lot of variety just in, like, let’s just say Italians?
Speaker: 2
53:08
There’s a lot of variety.
Speaker: 1
53:10
Sai couldn’t this just be someone who’s on a a spectrum of features that I mean, I don’t think it’s that much different than that.
Speaker: 2
53:17
You don’t
Speaker: 0
53:17
think so?
Speaker: 2
53:18
Well No.
Speaker: 1
53:19
Ai I’m looking at it, I could I mean, I could imagine. Like, there’s like I said, just, you know, my nationality, Italians. So there’s Italians with very thin faces and there’s these big thick ones and, like Yeah. People vary quite a bit. There’s enough similarities that I could say, oh, those could be the same people.
Speaker: 2
53:35
Well, the the only counter I give to that is when you when you visit the Olmec realm, you see a lot more than just the heads. You see a lot of Olmec faces, dozens and dozens and dozens of them, maybe well over a hundred. And when you’ve seen them all and you kinda get a gist of, like, the way they generally look, this guy will really stand out.
Speaker: 2
53:52
Ai, I I took a, like, a group of students there and we all as soon as we all came in and saw it, based on everything we’d been seeing for the past week, it immediately stood out to us.
Speaker: 1
54:01
Well, certainly, the thick brow Mhmm. Is unique to all the Olmecs or wearing helmets.
Speaker: 2
54:06
And and that that that hair as well. It’s it’s ai of that it’s kind of that, that curly hair. And, or at least it it looks like it to me. And so, so anyways, you know, he he could be Olmec. I I don’t you know, my identity is not tied up in what I think this is or is not.
Speaker: 1
54:22
Also, Olmec could be African, like, very, very clearly. That one on the left easily could be an African man.
Speaker: 2
54:29
Which one? This guy right here?
Speaker: 1
54:30
This one, the one next to the white one to the left of that to meh you right there.
Speaker: 0
54:34
It it
Speaker: 1
54:34
Easily could be an African man.
Speaker: 2
54:36
It certainly does look that way, but, I was on a I was on a plane to Mexico A Couple Months ago, and I was going into the Olmec ram. And I look I was ai, I wanted to take a picture of this ai. I’m looking to the left of meh, and he was an Olmec man sitting next to me. And he was he was, you know, he looked like he didn’t look like any Mexican I’ve ever seen.
Speaker: 2
54:54
There’s something there with the DNA of the Olmec people that is definitely connected with something else that that you don’t see if you go to the Maya realm, that you don’t see if you go to, like, Mexico City. They have something in their DNA. They have this very specific look about them. Ai don’t know exactly what it is.
Speaker: 2
55:11
But I’m, like, looking and I’m, like, this Olmec guy next to me.
Speaker: 1
55:14
So fascinating because it clearly could have been African explorers that made it.
Speaker: 2
55:19
Yeah. Well, I’ll tell you what. Could we look up, gosh. Look up the traveler Olmec monument if you would please, Jamie. It’s the traveler. I I wanna call him I think he’s Monument 13. There’s another one called Monument 19 that we should look at. But he’s this man that’s very clearly not, there we go. Top left, the one that’s on Reddit. In fact, this might be my post on Reddit.
Speaker: 2
55:44
Is this on
Speaker: 0
55:45
the phone? Yes,
Speaker: 2
55:45
sai. So this guy right here. Alright. So this is really, really fascinating. So what’s ai this? Alright. So flags. Flags are invented as very unknown fact. Flags are invented or the first place that we have evidence for is along the Nile Valley. On these predynastic pots, which did not the not the stone vases, but just like clay pottery. They would make little paintings on them.
Speaker: 2
56:11
And people have these river boats that have these flags on. And the flags would say what city you had come from or what village you you had come from. And so that so flags are an old world thing. We don’t have any evidence of flags in the new world. Alright. He’s also wearing a turban.
Speaker: 2
56:25
He’s got this big turban that’s draping off the back of his head and he very clearly has this distinct beard that’s popping out. Now, Native Americans, sometimes they can, you know, they are, they’re Asiatic. They have they have Asian DNA. And, and Asians don’t really grow typically.
Speaker: 2
56:43
Ai, they’ll grow the little ai, stash and a little bit of a beard here, but they don’t have that big thick beard that you would see, you know, like in Europe or along the Mediterranean in The Middle East. And so this guy has this big thick beard and then he’s got boots on his feet as well.
Speaker: 2
56:57
And we think that these are these glyphs that you see to his left and ai. And these are really really early Olmec, glyphs. And they interpret that foot to the left as saying that he came from somewhere. He was a traveler. And so, the thought here is, so this is this is around 900 BC, give or take a little bit.
Speaker: 2
57:18
They don’t really they really have no idea when these when these are made. Ai, you go to all the monuments and it says made somewhere between 1,500 BC and 400 BC. And they they’ll say 1,500 BC and 400 BC. And so they they really are uncertain about how old a lot of these monuments are.
Speaker: 1
57:35
Make it big again, Jimmy, please.
Speaker: 2
57:36
But if we if we shoot for dead center 900 BC, the, the Phoenicians out of the Mediterranean are launching these sailing expeditions around the coast of Africa. These are the ancient world’s greatest sailors that we know of. And, and sai, there are there were ai experimental, archaeological or scientific, I don’t know, expeditions done that show if you would send one of these early Ai Age boats or if you send any ship out of the, out of the, the Gates Of Hercules or the Strait Of Gibraltar and you send it out into the Atlantic just sana it it drifts just a little bit too far without turning south along the African coast, it will be carried by a current across the Atlantic Ocean down into The Bahamas, The Caribbean and straight into the Gulf Of Mexico.
Speaker: 2
58:24
And if that had happened, if people who had looked like it there in the old world like this guy, if that had happened, somebody from the old world, the the largest civilization at the time, the empire in this area would have been the Olmecs. And the the reason I feel so strongly about that is because we do not have flags, turbans, or boots in the in the ancient Americas.
Speaker: 2
58:44
This guy looks nothing like a Native Meh, And the flag, turban, and boots are all old world, features.
Speaker: 1
58:53
You know what’s fascinating to me too? The image on the lower right of the bird’s head looks very similar to the carvings on Gobekli Tepe.
Speaker: 2
59:01
Doesn’t it?
Speaker: 1
59:02
Yes. Very. The curve of the beak, that’s not how birds’ beaks look. Like, that’s that’s a very distinct style of artwork. Well, and it’s just If you can find the images of the birds from Gobekli Tepe.
Speaker: 2
59:14
It’s this, it’s this raised relief art style. So people talk about it a lot with with Gobekli Tepe. I mean, think about this. This is this is 11,600 ago and you have you have artisans and stonemasons who have been practicing for so long that now they’re able to take a blank piece of stone and carve the face off to reveal the artwork from underneath it.
Speaker: 2
59:37
Not carve the artwork into the stone
Speaker: 0
59:39
Right.
Speaker: 2
59:39
But carve the stone away and reveal this sculpture from underneath. How similar does that look? It’s bizarre. Right?
Speaker: 1
59:45
Real similar.
Speaker: 2
59:46
And sai, it’s the it’s the exact same kind of art style that you see in the
Speaker: 1
59:52
Olmec realm. Exactly. The three d saloni carvings. Instead of carving it directly into the stone, carve the stone around it. They’re both doing the same thing. That takes a lot of
Speaker: 2
01:00:02
time. I mean, how A lot more effort. Imagine?
Speaker: 1
01:00:05
Weird. Weird stuff. It’s also, like, the idea that this is documenting ai. That, you know, the the the the handbags or whatever those things are, what it what it actually is, is the sun going over the earth.
Speaker: 2
01:00:20
You know, I have I’m I’m writing a paper about this, but this might be a good place to talk about it. So you know that the handbag mystery is is very fascinating. We have them in Syria. We have them, Mesopotamia. I as far as I know, I don’t think one’s been found in Egypt. You can you can see them on the top of those t pillars in Gobekli Tepe.
Speaker: 2
01:00:42
And there’s one in the Olmec realm. Are you familiar with this? No. Monument ai, if if we can look that up. It I mean, dude, it it I think it’s the coolest handbag. And when I saw it in person, I, like, jumped. I I’ve been waiting years to see it.
Speaker: 1
01:00:55
Sai thing?
Speaker: 2
01:00:56
Olmec monument nineteen. So this guy, he’s wrapped in, he’s he’s sitting in Quetzalcoatl. He’s sitting in Quetzalcoatl. If you Could you do the one at the top left where we get the full picture? There we go. So this stone is probably about this big. It’s probably about this big and it sits on a table like this. So he’s sitting inside the feathered serpent, Quetzalcoatl.
Speaker: 1
01:01:16
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:01:17
And so he’s sitting inside the feathered serpent and he’s holding this handbag ai I’m not sure. So he has this, if you can, if you see he has a feathered serpent mask around his head as well. I’m not sure what exactly is above him. There, well, there are actually two, it’s really hard to to make it out, but what’s above him, that little box looking thing
Speaker: 0
01:01:35
Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
01:01:36
Is some kind of box that’s being held up by two birds on each end. But the the important thing here is the fact that this is the first depiction of the feathered serpent in all of Mesoamerica that we know of. And it’s, it might be the oldest handbag known as far as like what we have official dates for.
Speaker: 2
01:01:53
And so the idea here is that he’s some kind of sacred shaman, bringer of enlightenment, bringer of knowledge, something like that. And so, I had been on the hunt for another handbag. Everywhere I go, I’m always looking for a handbag. I was in Cambodia A Couple Weeks ago. I’m going around the temples of Angkor Wat and there’s hieroglyphs and and carvings all over the walls. I’m looking for a handbag. I can’t find one.
Speaker: 2
01:02:17
But when I was in, when I was in Vatsal Mexico, I was at a site called Cacashla and I found another handbag person. I’ve never, like, officially published it. It’s on my x if you’d wanna look it up.
Speaker: 1
01:02:31
What is the ai for that one?
Speaker: 2
01:02:32
They don’t really know. When you look at the monument, it says, it says anywhere from 1,400 BC to 400 BC. That’s just what they think. I mean, the Olmec realm is so uncertain and, and we don’t have hard dates for almost for almost anything. They appear on the historical line on this historical timeline as a fully fledged civilization capable of creating what you’re seeing from the very beginning.
Speaker: 2
01:02:56
Just like so many civilizations, it’s like as soon as they arrive, you know, as soon as they arrive in the world, they’re doing everything to the fullest capacity. And, we don’t have any evidence in the Olmec realm of them working their way towards being able to do things like this.
Speaker: 2
01:03:12
It’s just from the very beginning, they’re able to make monuments like this, move these 50 ton Olmec heads. The largest head is, this you’ll find this interesting. So there was a nautical engineer that, Meh, which is a organization I’m I’m with. It’s the Maya Exploration Center. It’s it’s run by doctor Ed Barnhart.
Speaker: 2
01:03:31
I’m I’m a a member of it. And, and one of the guys that worked with us, traveled into the Olmec realm. He he’s a nautical engineer. He’s fascinated with he’s fascinated with how were the Olmecs moving these huge heads up and down these rivers. So they live in like the rivers, swamps, they have to cross some mountain ranges.
Speaker: 2
01:03:50
How are you getting these heads 90 miles away ram the Sierra De La Tushla volcanic belt? That’s where they’re pulling the basalt ram. Because we found unfinished heads, like, at the base of these big basalt quarries. And they’re transporting them 90 kilometers away through, you know, like I was saying, rivers and valleys. 90 miles or kilometers? I think it’s kilometers.
Speaker: 2
01:04:08
It’s kilometers as the crow flies. I’m I’m pretty sure. Oh, okay. And, so much further when you’re actually dealing with the complications of the terrain. And, and so, he was fascinated, like, okay. How do they get them to the river? And and then when how do they get them on the boat?
Speaker: 2
01:04:25
And when it’s on the boat, how does how exactly does this work if they’re transporting it by boat? And it’s ai the same mystery in Egypt too. Right? Like, how how do the nuances of these things work? So he devised this algorithm or whatever where you could put in the hypothetical size of your Olmec raft and put in the hypothetical size of an Olmec head into this, database or whatever.
Speaker: 2
01:04:47
And when you made a raft that was too big to go down the narrow stretches of the Coetzalcos River, which is like the Meh Nile River, when the raft was too big and too wide to actually go down the river and you put a five ton Olmec head on it, it would sink that raft. But the smallest Olmec head is six tons, and the largest one is 52 tons. So how are they how are they doing it?
Speaker: 2
01:05:11
And this is something that, like, all archaeologists have quietly known this idea of they’re just being transported on these simple balsa rafts must be wrong. It’s, you know, it’s it’s unexplained. How how are these things being done? And I I just find this realm really fascinating.
Speaker: 1
01:05:25
Wow. It is and then when do they even know what language they speak?
Speaker: 2
01:05:30
The Olmecs? We we don’t know what language they spoke. We don’t even know what they called themselves. The only reason we call them the Olmecs is because Cortes, fifteen nineteen to 1521, he’s moving through Mexico to conquer Tenochtitlan, the Aztec capital. During this time, you have these, Spanish chroniclers that are taking in information, you know, taking in information, but not at the rate that everything’s being destroyed.
Speaker: 2
01:05:52
You know, all these people are dying from this, disease and influenza. And there’s a record of what the people who lived in the Olmec region are called at that time in ’15, 1520, let’s sai. And Aztecs called them the Olmecs. In their language, Nahuatl, and those Olmec speak the the name means the rubber people or the people of the land of rubber.
Speaker: 2
01:06:17
They produced rubber and that’s how the Olmecs were so rich so early on in time. But these were not the people living in 1519 are not the Olmecs. There has already the Olmecs have fallen, and there are other cultures that have bryden and fallen in the same region as well. The Olmecs are far far far far into the distant past. The Aztecs maybe didn’t even know who the Olmecs were. Woah.
Speaker: 2
01:06:39
You know you know, so are you familiar with Teotihuacan? Yeah. The, you know, the the the three massive we have the temple of the Sun, the temple of the Moon, and then the temple of, Quetzalcoatl. And they form this kind of like, Orion’s Belt alignment similar to Giza. Well, you know, when the Aztecs arrived in Mexico, Teotihuacan had been abandoned for almost a a thousand years, we think. So when they arrived, Teotihuacan is already gone.
Speaker: 2
01:07:05
We don’t even know the name of Teotihuacan. We don’t know the name of the people. We don’t know the name of the city. We know their relationship with other people around them. Like the Maya were at war with Teotihuacan, but the civilization had already fallen.
Speaker: 2
01:07:18
So when the Aztecs arrived, the Olmecs had been gone for almost two thousand years at least.
Speaker: 0
01:07:26
Wow. The
Speaker: 2
01:07:26
Olmecs sai already been gone. Teotihuacan had been gone for a thousand years. The Maya had already collapsed. The the Maya collapsed long before the Spanish got there. And so, you know, it’s just again ai like the The Americas are just so mysterious and there’s so much to know there.
Speaker: 2
01:07:41
And so ai getting back to what I was saying is when I, when I talk about the mysteries of The Americas, I immediately get accosted by other of my quote unquote colleagues. Ai don’t have any colleagues in the academic ram, but, you know, other academics who will, like, immediately jump in my meh section on x or whatever, and they’ll reprimand meh.
Speaker: 2
01:08:01
And they’ll be ai, oh, so back to the pseudo archaeology, is it? And I’m like, so so I can’t talk about anything that’s fascinating. I need to talk about things that are boring sai you don’t get upset with me. And now it’s just ai, the the the popular audience has completely had enough of it, and I’ll have, like, 15 people jump in and
Speaker: 1
01:08:19
Yeah. So
Speaker: 2
01:08:19
that’s you know, defend me and and be like It’s fun to watch. Yeah. And they’ll be ai and they’ll be like be like they’ll be like, you know, okay. This is a perfect representation of what you guys do. I step just slightly out of this line or what you think is appropriate for ai.
Speaker: 2
01:08:32
And I’m talking about things that are interesting, that inspire people to be interested in the ancient world to go see these sites. Like, these people, they don’t like you. They don’t like the people that you have on. But how many people do you think you’ve sent to Egypt? You know, like Ai
Speaker: 1
01:08:46
a few.
Speaker: 2
01:08:46
You had a significant impact. This show had a significant impact on me being interested in the ancient world. And I have traveled all over the world, you know, because largely, you know, some of the show inspired me to do that. And, and, I’m probably one of the few people that found you because of Graham Hancock. Okay. That’s awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Rather than the other way around.
Speaker: 2
01:09:07
And and so, you know, I’ve traveled all over the world. And then what I have done is inspired other people to travel around the world. So, you know, how many of these archaeologists that are keyboard warriors hiding hiding behind, you know, a a a desk or whatever, how many of these people are inspiring people to travel around the world?
Speaker: 2
01:09:23
And and, you know, it’s just it’s just again, we’re about to reach this, like, archaeological Ai West where I don’t really know what’s gonna happen in the future.
Speaker: 1
01:09:30
It’s You’re always gonna have people that are threatened by an emerging new thing. Mhmm. And they’re they’re going to attack it. Like, you know, famously in this world, Howard Stern used to attack podcast as being useless.
Speaker: 0
01:09:46
Oh, really? Like, why
Speaker: 1
01:09:46
ai you wasting your time? Yeah. You know, get a radio shah, figure out how to do it. This is the beginning. They’re early days. You know. Obviously, you can’t do that anymore. But I think the same thing is happening with our with archaeologists because Flint Dibble’s own university that has an archaeology program, they’re cutting the archaeology program. I saw that.
Speaker: 1
01:10:06
Yeah. Which is this is ai. Like, you’re in this, like, survival mode, this famine mode.
Speaker: 0
01:10:12
It’s so bad.
Speaker: 1
01:10:12
And fam it’s terrible. But famine thinking is always very dangerous. You you see it with people that don’t want other people to be successful. It it exists in the comedy world. Mhmm. There’s famine thinking. When other people start doing better, they start attacking those people.
Speaker: 1
01:10:27
They never attack people that are aren’t doing as well as them.
Speaker: 0
01:10:29
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:10:29
It’s just a natural human instinct, unfortunately. And it’s a natural human instinct ram people with poor character. And I think that these academic institutes, they reinforce poor character and they they actually encourage it. Poor character and the this, like, labeling people in the worst possible light in order to make your point, which is ai ad hominem attacks are always a sign that your argument sucks.
Speaker: 1
01:10:53
Everybody knows that. If you really understand debating and you really understand, like, the actual impact that these kind of conversations have on people, the objective person on the outside looking at it. They see someone attacking, someone calling them all his name unfounded. Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
01:11:06
And they
Speaker: 1
01:11:07
go, oh, that guy’s argument probably sucks. Ai, instantaneously. So they’re destroying themselves while they’re doing this. Yeah. But this is you’ll see this in every walk of life. You’ll see this in everything. It’s just a human thing when they don’t sana work as hard as other people or they don’t have the young fire like you have.
Speaker: 1
01:11:24
Mhmm. Ai, there’s a thing that people have when they’re very curious and young and they don’t have maybe a lot of responsibilities or bills or problems, and they can just they can devote their energy to this pursuit that terrifies people Yeah. That have been kind of like half assing it for a long time.
Speaker: 1
01:11:41
Half assing it and hiding behind these these, you know, certificates on their wall that show that they’re the these are the the gatekeepers of information. Yeah. Yeah. It’s ai, it’s not gonna work anymore. It doesn’t work anymore with podcasts. It’s not gonna work anymore with your kind of work in archaeology.
Speaker: 1
01:12:00
It’s not gonna work anymore with UFO disclosure. It’s not gonna work anymore with any of this stuff. Like, people are way more interested in getting to the bottom of things, and they don’t trust institutions anymore.
Speaker: 2
01:12:13
Yeah. Yeah. And, and the institutions are are feeling the pressure of Yeah. Independent media Mhmm. You know, like, going back to the Gobekli Tepe tree situation. It it’ll be really interesting to see, you know, like like, Jimmy’s in an interesting position where where and maybe there’s maybe there’s a way that, like, the relationship between independent people and the popular enthusiastic audience and, you know, the archaeological departments in in Turkey can have a better relationship because of these things in the future.
Speaker: 1
01:12:45
You know how that would work? People like you Mhmm. Become the head of an archaeology department. That’s this is really the only way it’s gonna work. Yeah. It’s ai it’s almost like these these institutions have to feel so much pressure and so much discussed from the general public Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:13:00
That they start incorporating new people into it. You know, sort of ai CNN is trying to hire objective journalists now. Oh, yeah. They’re like, oh, we gotta get rid of Don Lemon and Brian Stelter. Oh, actually, he’s back.
Speaker: 1
01:13:11
But they so they they they ai to course correct because that’s the only way to ai.
Speaker: 2
01:13:15
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:13:15
But because it’s not working. What you’re doing is not working.
Speaker: 2
01:13:18
From from what I can sai, in the limited amount that I see and this this is the hard part is is sort of we get a skewed view into the archaeological world or the academic world. And and ai, I don’t even know what’s what because because the archaeologists that make their opinions known are usually the ones with really bad opinions, you know.
Speaker: 2
01:13:39
And, and then all the other people that are pretty agreeable, they just kinda sit on the sideline. Right? And it’s hard to know, like, what are most people what are most of these these future archaeologists? Where do they think? Where are their where’s their mind at?
Speaker: 2
01:13:52
And some of the young people I talked to, they are fascinated by Graham Hancock. They may not agree with, you know, ai, they I guess, in a way, I could say is they may love the first nine episodes of Ancient Apocalypse. But in the tenth episode where Graham gives his the end of his thesis, they’ll be ai, okay.
Speaker: 2
01:14:08
I see the evidence differently, but this is really fascinating, and some of the mysteries you pointed out along the way are valid. Like, you know, the idea of of, well, you know, the the artifact record of the tools that we have that the Egyptians in the old kingdom were using does not fit the megalithic architecture that they then produced.
Speaker: 2
01:14:26
Okay. What’s the answer to this mystery? Could it have been that we’re missing a chapter, of of history that’s before that where a different civilization did it? Or is there, for some reason, there’s an artifact record that’s lost to us today? And so you have, you know, guys like Graham who will come in and and pause it. Well, there could have been a lost civilization that that did this.
Speaker: 2
01:14:47
And then an archaeologist, the young archaeologist meh disagree with the lost civilization, but they say, but Ram, you really pointed out the fact and made it well known that, you know, the artifact record that we have of how they built the pyramids, that’s a big mystery. And how they built the pyramids, that’s a big mystery. This is worth considering. And they like Ram.
Speaker: 2
01:15:02
You know, so a lot of young archaeologists, at ai, I say a lot. It’s really just the ones I talk to in my spare time that are my age. They’re fascinated by these ideas. And my hope is maybe these people become leaders someday. But at the same time, like, I don’t know.
Speaker: 2
01:15:18
To get ahead in that world, man
Speaker: 0
01:15:20
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:15:20
You’re gonna be a dog.
Speaker: 1
01:15:21
The world’s poisoned. And the the people at the top are not gonna let go. They’re gonna stay in there till the Yeah. You know, Noam Chomsky’s age. Mhmm. You know, this is just I just think it’s never gonna end in that way. I think it’s gotta become some sort of an independent branch, like, you know, a break off.
Speaker: 2
01:15:37
Yeah. You know, Zahi is a, Zahi is a really good example of of what I think goes on in archaeology in Egypt. You know, you have a lot of different missions from different countries working in Egypt. You have ai a German mission. You have the Meh mission. You know, different people working at different sites. And I can’t speak to every country that’s working there.
Speaker: 2
01:15:56
You have Australian missions that are working in Egypt digging at certain sites. But but, you know, when I when I watch Zahi, I’m like, I’m like, yeah. This is the what you’re seeing. This is the attitude that has been at the spear point of Egyptology for the last lifetime.
Speaker: 2
01:16:15
And, and you can just imagine what goes on. Like, I mean, think about being on a dig site with him. Think about working in his industry underneath him. Think about all the people that were a part of the discoveries that he made that feel so disrespected and so overlooked. You know, not once during that podcast did he ever acknowledge all the hardworking archaeologists that were actually there in the dirt doing all this hard work.
Speaker: 2
01:16:37
He just took all this limelight. Yeah. And so, you know, clearly, his identity is tied into what’s in his coffee table book.
Speaker: 0
01:16:46
Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
01:16:46
And, you know, for him to act like that’s the Bible of Giza is insane. I own the book. And I and I’ve read it. And it has half of a page about the subterranean chamber in Khufu’s Pyramid. So it’s it’s you can write a whole book about that. What’s your
Speaker: 1
01:17:00
I don’t mean to interrupt. Keep going.
Speaker: 0
01:17:02
Oh,
Speaker: 2
01:17:03
Ai was just gonna say I was just gonna say, sai, when you go to Egypt, there’s some things that you’re gonna be appalled by ai like the the the modern, Egyptian world. Ai I do this series on YouTube called Megaliths You’ve Never Seen Before. And I’m always trying to, like, find these weird obscure blocks that you never see on Google.
Speaker: 2
01:17:24
And I’m walking around the side of the Pyramid Of Unas, and there’s a turd on the side of the pyramid.
Speaker: 1
01:17:32
A human turd?
Speaker: 2
01:17:33
Yeah. And it’s from the guard that’s, like, sitting up on top of the hill, the Egyptian guard looking down at me. And I go around to, to Land Of Kim who I’m traveling with. Have you heard of him before? No. He’s he’s an American that lives in Egypt, and he’s got his theories on on on the pyramids.
Speaker: 2
01:17:47
And I’m traveling with him, and I was ai, I was like, there’s a turd on the pyramid over there. And he’s like he’s like, yeah. Yeah. You know? And I was like, a tourist? And he goes, no. Not not tourist.
Speaker: 2
01:17:56
And so, you know, that that the poop on the pyramid is pretty much ai that’s ai my that’s kinda my mental. It’s burned into my brain, my image of of Egyptology, in some speak, ai, when it’s isolated to Egypt. I can’t speak for all the other missions that operate in Egypt. But, what were you about to say?
Speaker: 1
01:18:13
I don’t remember. Where where where where where arya we at when I was gonna interrupt? Oh, this is what I Ai remember. What is your opinion about Christopher Dunn’s ideas?
Speaker: 2
01:18:24
I don’t know. I I Ai really don’t know, man. I,
Speaker: 1
01:18:27
So for people that don’t know, Christopher Dunn has a theory that the Great Pyramid was actually some sort of a power generator.
Speaker: 0
01:18:36
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:18:37
That it produced hydrogen gas.
Speaker: 2
01:18:39
Ai I don’t know. I mean, you know, I know that that the Egyptians, it’s obvious that they have technology that it that is lost to us today.
Speaker: 1
01:18:47
The drill holes.
Speaker: 2
01:18:49
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:18:49
The way they cut the concrete or the excuse me, the granite.
Speaker: 2
01:18:53
Yeah. Yeah. But Ai, you know, I I really don’t know. As far as the, you know, like the the manufacturing aspects, the the engine I guess, the engineering, the potential, usages of these artifacts, it’s not really ai my specialty. Like Ai I, you know, like these, these vases are are meh, this is a heavy one. These vases are fascinating.
Speaker: 2
01:19:14
But, you know, I guess meh interest would be studying ai what can I what can we learn about the context around these things and, how they existed in their world and how people interacted with them more so than, you know, what did these things what were they actually used for, I guess, and how exactly were they made?
Speaker: 2
01:19:31
And so Ai I just don’t know about Chris Dunn’s theory. You know, I I guess the first thing that comes to my mind is, like, well, you know, most of the pyramid is limestone and the interior is granite. I I hear people talk about how, like, the makeup of the granite could be conductive in some way, but meh, it’s just it’s ai the farthest thing from my set of of knowledge.
Speaker: 2
01:19:49
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:19:49
It is absolutely fascinating though, because if he’s accurate, if he if he’s on to it, like, boy, does that change everything.
Speaker: 0
01:19:57
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:19:57
And if those Italian scientists that believe that there’s literally a two kilometer deep structure underneath the pyramid, if they’re correct, ai, boy Yeah. The whole thing is, like, what are we even talking about now?
Speaker: 2
01:20:10
Yeah. I find that fascinating. I I think that the the main drama around those scans was, you know, when the scans came out, I don’t think anybody was denying what was seen on the scans. I think it was, like, they they had the, they had the artistic interpretations of the art concepts that they produced Right. Of what they thought was in there. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:20:29
And I think a lot of people are, like, ai.
Speaker: 1
01:20:31
Yeah. That was a little weird.
Speaker: 2
01:20:32
Because because even me, I I was a little bit ai, When when they they made a, they made an art concept of it, and they took the king’s chamber and the relieving chambers in the Great Pyramid and superimposed it onto the Middle Pyramid. And they they, I guess, quintupled it. Like, they made five of them. And I was thinking, like, why why why do that?
Speaker: 2
01:20:54
Like, you’re kind of you’re kinda undermining what your skin is when you’re creating, like, a fantasy image because,
Speaker: 1
01:21:00
You’re getting ahead of your skin.
Speaker: 2
01:21:01
Yeah. You’re you’re getting ahead of yourself because, you know, we need to do the whole scan again, but you need to have tests. So ai, Luis Alvarez, are you familiar with him? He worked on the on the Manhattan Project with Oppenheimer. And after the war in the fifties or in the sixties, he got to go to Egypt, and he scanned in the Khafre Pyramid. He did the Muon scans.
Speaker: 2
01:21:19
And when he was in there, they tested, they tested it all before. So he was able to scan up through the pyramid, and he got the pinnacle of the pyramid, and he got all four corners. And so they tested it, and they did it several times just to confirm that what they were getting was right.
Speaker: 2
01:21:33
And, the I think the Mulan scan only scanned ai 19% of the pyramid. This is the sixties. So, but they didn’t find anything, but the Stanford project came the next decade and they found subterranean, chambers under Koffers’ Pyramid. There’s one ai 69 feet down and another one a 20 feet down. Huge chambers, bigger than the chambers inside the pyramids. And so, yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:21:56
I mean, I guess we just have to wait and sai, what’s gonna happen. And I know that the scanned pyramids guys, the ones who found the the void above, the Ram Gallery and the Great Pyramid, I know they’re interested in this now, and they’re gonna verify what if this is true or not.
Speaker: 2
01:22:13
And, yeah. I’m I’m interested in seeing seeing how this goes. This could be a big year, man. If if they actually drill into that void above the Grand Gallery, that’s gonna be a big deal.
Speaker: 0
01:22:24
What do
Speaker: 1
01:22:24
you think is in that void?
Speaker: 2
01:22:28
I I have no idea. You know, the It’s pretty big.
Speaker: 0
01:22:30
Right?
Speaker: 1
01:22:30
It’s the size of two semi trucks?
Speaker: 2
01:22:32
It’s it’s the same size or bigger than the Grand Gallery itself. And the Grand Gallery, when you go in, it’s a it’s a huge building. Or, you know, you’re inside a building inside of the pyramid. And, it’s as big or bigger than that. And, you know, the most conservative explanation is that it’s an open interior that served as a ramp where they were pulling the blocks up higher up to the top.
Speaker: 2
01:22:55
Nobody really knows exactly how they were built. In the in the, the angle of that ram gallery is really, really steep. I don’t know that you could pull an 80 ton granite block up an angle that steep. It seems like everyone who’s an expert in in that, you know, who studies independently is like, ai, you’re never gonna pull, oh, oh, never gonna pull weight up.
Speaker: 2
01:23:16
To be honest, I have no idea. You know, I’m I was fascinated when I heard an Egyptologist when I was in Egypt in January and I was asking, what do you think that they’re gonna find in that void? And he was ai, he was telling me, I think that that’s where Khufu is buried. And I was like, oh, okay. Really?
Speaker: 2
01:23:32
So you actually think that he’s still in the pyramid? And he was like, yeah. I think I think all the rest of it was a decoy ai I think that his son who’s able to continue his legacy ai permanently sealed him in that in that tomb. And I was like, that’s that’s fascinating. And, and I said I said, you know, there’s other voids that they found too. What do you think of those?
Speaker: 2
01:23:50
And so we’re standing on this felucca at 1AM on the Nile and we’re just, you know, shooting the shah. And he was like he’s like, I have something to show you. And he pulls out his phone. He was ai, he’s like, I cannot send to you, but I will show you. For one second, he showed me a photo of the inside of a chamber that I’ve never I hadn’t seen before, and it hasn’t been published yet.
Speaker: 2
01:24:08
I’ll let you know when it comes out. But it’s burned into my mind. It’s from the floor shooting across the room. All you can see is two walls meeting each other and a roof. And I I said I said that’s in a pure that’s in that’s in the Great Pyramid?
Speaker: 2
01:24:21
He goes and he was ai and he he wouldn’t share he wouldn’t share it with me. I didn’t wanna press him too meh, but I almost stole his phone. Give me that phone, motherfucker.
Speaker: 1
01:24:30
Shut up. You can’t keep this. Fuck out
Speaker: 2
01:24:34
of here. Well, you know, meh, that’s happening all over the world. Like, this delay of of information is all over the world. Do you remember the the tunnels that came out or the the, maybe it’s in November, the headlines that no. Yeah. It was in November. The headlines that came out about the tunnels that were found under Cusco in Peru that connect to Sacsayhuaman and they go underneath the Coricancha.
Speaker: 1
01:24:56
They knew about that a long time ago.
Speaker: 2
01:24:57
Oh, yeah. Yeah. It’s documented. In the in fall of last year, I made friends with, the head archaeologist at that site. And one early morning at, like, 4AM, he took me down inside part of the tunnels. And, yeah. I was I was in there before it all came out. And, he took me into sai all these archaeologists, they, like, live on-site. And these are all these are all Inca people.
Speaker: 2
01:25:21
So they believe that they’re studying their ancestral heritage. These are these are really good people. And I’m in their, you know, shoddy little home that’s on the archeological site. I mean, they probably make no money. And but they’re just they’re just so passionate about this, and they feel like they’re doing something that’s, like, one of the most important things anybody in the world is doing.
Speaker: 2
01:25:38
And, have you been to Peru? No. When you go to Cusco, man, the Sacred Valley, it’s it has something there that not even Egypt has. I don’t know how to explain it. Really? It’s, it’s it’s a sacred place. It’s, ai, the Sacred Valley is exactly right. It’s a magical ai of place.
Speaker: 2
01:25:55
Machu Picchu, you should book two days when you go because you’re gonna get rained on on one of the days. But you’re out there on this, you know, seven thousand eight hundred foot mountain top, and it’s so speak, you cannot see the bottom when you’re looking over the side of the city.
Speaker: 2
01:26:09
And you’re just in the sacred place in the middle of the Amazon up in the mountains. And it’s just a different place, man. It has a type of charm that, like, not even Egypt has. Egypt, you’re gonna be blown away by the structures. You’re gonna be blown away by the by the pyramids and the temples. But this is something else.
Speaker: 2
01:26:25
It has a it has an otherworldly like, you feel like you’re on some kind of, like, Star Wars planet when you’re there. It’s fascinating.
Speaker: 1
01:26:32
Because of the environment?
Speaker: 2
01:26:34
Yeah. It’s like the environment. You know, I I wondered if it was when you’re in Cusco, you’re at 11,500 foot elevation. And I wondered if I was, like, missing oxygen to my brain. And I sai, like, woah.
Speaker: 1
01:26:45
This place is
Speaker: 2
01:26:46
Oh, it’s hilarious. Awesome. Yeah. You know? But, no, it really is amazing. And, the people are so nice. And,
Speaker: 0
01:26:52
so
Speaker: 2
01:26:52
anyways to teach you as
Speaker: 1
01:26:53
a trip.
Speaker: 2
01:26:54
Oh, sai Like,
Speaker: 1
01:26:54
what was that?
Speaker: 2
01:26:57
I think it’s I think it was very similar to, Alexandria’s library. I think it was a place of study where people are studying the studying the stars. Archaeoastronomy is like is like the next frontier of of archaeology. It’s the way that people it’s the way that ancient people are interacting with the night sky and what they know about the cosmos.
Speaker: 2
01:27:14
You know, the Maya were calculating ai millions of years into the future and millions of years into the past. And they had this numerology system that’s just amazing. But but anyways, so so I ai so I met Saksayoaman sana they take me into this back ram. And, they show me all these bodies that they pull.
Speaker: 2
01:27:32
I probably shouldn’t be saying this, but whatever. They show me all these bodies that they pulled out of the tunnels. And it was these, it was these they thought that they were ai sacred guardians of whatever is inside of this tunnel. And these are all buried at Sacsayhuaman.
Speaker: 2
01:27:44
So there’s ai skulls everywhere. There’s boxes in all these bones. There was a, there was like an obsidian, mirror with ai a little stick on it, bunch of gold artifacts in this room. It was just boxes upon boxes upon boxes upon boxes. And I haven’t seen any of this stuff published yet.
Speaker: 2
01:28:00
So this is how much of a delay there is on archaeology. And,
Speaker: 1
01:28:05
what is the delay in that stuff? Because it would seem like such an enormous discovery.
Speaker: 2
01:28:11
Yeah. It’s, what I think it is is, well, you kinda have I would I would say it’s a mix of a lot of different things. Let’s say let’s say the most non malicious side is that these countries are totally dependent upon tourism, and they wanna prepare, like, a media, you know, ai, a big media buzz to drive tourism.
Speaker: 2
01:28:33
So they wanna do it at the right time of the year, and then it’ll inspire people to book their trip down down to the Sacred Valley. You know, it’s all it’s about it’s a money making machine. Right? It’s it’s it’s their biggest draw to come and see this part of the world.
Speaker: 1
01:28:47
But it seems so counterintuitive because new discoveries would make people wanna visit.
Speaker: 2
01:28:51
Yeah. Yeah. They they just wanna hold it off ai, like, the right part of the year. This is this is something I’ve heard in Peru. This is something I’ve heard in Egypt. You know, the, do you remember, the tomb of Thutmose the second that was just discovered recently? Mhmm. I heard about that.
Speaker: 2
01:29:08
So let me think that that came out two or three months ago. And when I was there in October, I had heard that that it was that it was found. Sai so these things are happening way way in advance. Now the other side is there’s sort of this Ai Hawass effect. Like, like, Ed Barnhart, my professor meh.
Speaker: 2
01:29:26
He wanted to study, in Peru whether or not the Inca or ancient Peruvians are ai fusing these andesite stones together. So you’ve seen how they how the stones ai fit together in the same way that they do at the Valley Temple in Egypt, the red granite.
Speaker: 0
01:29:43
Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
01:29:44
So they’re using this gray andesite. It’s which is ai the andesite is harder than the granite in Egypt. And they’re they’re ai morphing these stones together at impossible angles. You know, I’m sure you’ve seen the 12 sided stone and you maybe you’ve seen the scoop marks on the side of the stone where it looks like the the outside of the stone was softened at one point Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
01:30:01
And you could ai scrape a piece off. And so it’s it’s doctor Barnhart’s idea that somehow, well, and it’s not without evidence. So in the Chilean desert, the Inca are building upon the Inca Ai were building upon roads that went all across South Meh. And these roads weren’t initially the foundations weren’t laid by the Inca.
Speaker: 2
01:30:22
They may have been improved by the Inca, but they go back to the Wari Ai, which predates the Inca, and it almost certainly goes back further than this. The southernmost point of these highways, it goes off into the Chilean Desert, into the Atacama Desert, and they just kinda disappear into the desert.
Speaker: 2
01:30:36
And for a long time, it’s been a mystery of what the heck are these Peruvians doing down in the Chilean desert? What is it down there? What’s a resource that they need? But there are these, there are these acid deposits that are down in that desert. And, somehow, they they invented somehow, they invented this clay pottery that whatever they used to make it, the acid wouldn’t melt through the pottery sai you could carry it.
Speaker: 2
01:30:59
There’s evidence of this at Tiwanaku as well, which I’m sure you’ve heard of Tiwanaku. There’s evidence of this of this acid at Tiwanaku and people would talk about, how the, how the acid could, like, melt the stones. And sometimes they talk about how, like, bird poop or bird, Ai don’t even know, like throw up or whatever could could melt the stone.
Speaker: 2
01:31:18
And so there’s all these, you know, ideas that were these meh myths about the stones melting. Anyways, ai Barnhart’s idea was that was that those roads go down there because they’re mining and collecting the acids and they’re bringing them back and they’re softening the outside of the saloni.
Speaker: 2
01:31:33
And rather than carving the stones to fit together, they’re setting the stones on top of each other and it’s creating its own morph, if that makes sense. The the the stones are morphing together. And so he there’s two reasons, but you see them a lot as to why he thinks this.
Speaker: 0
01:31:49
There
Speaker: 2
01:31:49
was an earthquake in 1650 that destroyed the Spanish city that was sitting on top of the Inca city of Cusco. So you have this ancient city that’s there and the stones are so massive, the Spanish couldn’t tear them all down. So they just gave up and they built new buildings over it.
Speaker: 2
01:32:02
In 1650, this horrific earthquake knocked down the Spanish city and ancient buildings were still there, hadn’t moved at all. In 1950, another earthquake happened, knocked down the Spanish city and the, the ancient city is still standing. So now, these are preserved as, you know, cultural heritage monuments and they don’t build over them.
Speaker: 2
01:32:21
But they ai like a Starbucks or a KFC or a McDonald’s will be built inside of an ancient Inca building. You’ll walk in and it’s like megalithic stonework inside of KFC. It’s amazing. Wow. But it’s everywhere. It’s the whole city. It’s the whole modern city.
Speaker: 2
01:32:36
When you go one day, you just walk walk walk walk walk. One of the projects we’re gonna do, for the Maya exploration center is I’m gonna go down to Cusco for a month and I’m gonna make, the world’s first map of where all the stones actually are. There there is a map that tourists get, but it’s a shitty map. It’s not even accurate.
Speaker: 2
01:32:52
So that’s one of my projects is I’m gonna map all of these stones and where they are around Cusco, and it’ll be like on an app or a website or something where you can find it. But yeah, it’s it’s just, it’s incredible. So they preserve the stones. And so when you’re walking around, getting back to ai Can
Speaker: 1
01:33:09
we see some images of the stones Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:33:11
Yeah. That
Speaker: 1
01:33:11
would indicate that they’re they possibly were meh? Ai, what’s like the best
Speaker: 2
01:33:16
Oh, man. How could you search this up? Maybe just look up Cusco Ai stones. We may be able to find an image. And Sai could show you something on my phone.
Speaker: 0
01:33:26
I know I’ve got it on my phone.
Speaker: 1
01:33:27
Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:33:28
Maybe I could send it to you, but I’ll actually send send you the photo. And, Sai so some of these are from Saksaywaman. Okay. So to the top left here. So that’s the 12 sided stone. It’s on this building. When you walk around this building, the name is escaping me right now.
Speaker: 2
01:33:44
It’s the Palace of it’s the Palace of something. When you walk around this, when you walk around this building, you’re gonna see some of the stones where an earthquake has separated. So you have two stones that sit perfectly on top of each other. Well, and when an earthquake happens, one of these stones will slide back.
Speaker: 2
01:34:00
And when it does, you’ll see an angle that ramps up like this up to the exterior. And so what it looks like is the stone is placed on top and it smooshed the stone down. Does that make sense? Woah. Meh, I I I if we searched hard enough, we could find it here. I I will send you this photo. I’ve got it on my phone. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:34:23
Just that idea is
Speaker: 2
01:34:24
fascinating. And so
Speaker: 1
01:34:26
It melted into place.
Speaker: 2
01:34:28
Yeah. Oh, okay.
Speaker: 1
01:34:31
So they cut these stones used sai this is the theory. Is that it right there? No. No. So they cut these stones, use the acid, and set them in to seal so that there’s no gap in between the stones. So it’s not that they have to carve it perfectly
Speaker: 0
01:34:47
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:34:48
But rather that the weight of the other stone
Speaker: 2
01:34:50
They get it roughly the right shape
Speaker: 0
01:34:52
Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
01:34:52
And then and then lay them down on top of each other. It’s on it’s on one of these walls. So that one you have your cursor on, that’s fake. I walked up to it and it’s ai hollow. I was like tapping on it. It’s just a fake wall. Some I don’t know why in Cusco they have some they they some people will decorate their walls as to make them look like they’re the cyclopean walls.
Speaker: 2
01:35:10
You go knock on it and it’s like plastic. But there’s tons and tons and tons and tons. The majority of the city is just the ancient city.
Speaker: 0
01:35:16
What is
Speaker: 1
01:35:17
this? Inca saloni monument irreparably damaged?
Speaker: 0
01:35:19
It’s just like someone cut out a piece of it.
Speaker: 2
01:35:21
Yeah. Somebody went up to it in the middle of the night ai a drunk tourist and started hitting it with a hammer, the 12 sided stone, which is like the most sacred stone in Cusco. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:35:30
People are fucking gross.
Speaker: 2
01:35:32
Yeah. Okay. So so you see this long, the stone of the 12 angles that Ai sana right there in the middle? That stone is in that alley right there. If you could find it, but, you know Ai
Speaker: 1
01:35:42
so crazy that there’s a building on top of that.
Speaker: 2
01:35:46
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:35:47
That’s what’s so weird about it. Like, look at this stupid house that’s falling apart that’s on top of these ancient stones.
Speaker: 2
01:35:55
Yeah. It’s it’s crazy, man. It’s, it’s an amazing place. You’ll walk around and just be consistently stunned by the amount of stonework that’s there and what they are able to achieve. And this ai of cyclopean stonework where the stones all have these, you know, no two stones are exactly alike.
Speaker: 2
01:36:12
You you see that stonework in one place in Egypt, which is at the, the Valley Temple, next to the Sphinx. And you don’t see that, as far as I know, recreated anywhere else. But in Peru, it’s everywhere. Wow. Yeah. So that’s kind of a repaired wall.
Speaker: 2
01:36:32
You can see that, it fell apart and they put it back up. But these are these are motorless buildings. Oh, hey, go go if you go just one below the one that you’re at right now, so this is the Temple Of The Moon at Machu Picchu. Look at the size of this of the of the stone wall. That’s one stone on the lower on the lower part of it. Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
01:36:50
And you can see that the size of the stones that are together is as earthquakes have rattled the city, the the wall still kind of holds together. It bends and holds together completely mortal. It’s just fascinating. And on top of that, Machu Picchu itself, 60% of the megalithic construction work is in the foundation of Machu Picchu. So it’s underneath what you’re seeing.
Speaker: 2
01:37:13
And, and there are areas that are roped off where you can go down ai underneath the city, but it’s all roped off and and I I don’t know a lot about it. I got I got a little bit of a photo of where you can go down into these I don’t think I think they’re, like, man made labyrinths that are underneath the city, but there’s a lot more there.
Speaker: 2
01:37:31
And so when you’re there, you just get this, like, intrigue. And, and I was curious how Egypt would stack up ai I because I did, I did Peru last year. And then the day I landed from Peru, I had headed off to Egypt for a month. And then, Ram.
Speaker: 0
01:37:45
What a life. Yeah. It it
Speaker: 1
01:37:46
was That’s a you got a great life, dude. That’s cool.
Speaker: 2
01:37:48
Yeah. Well, thank you.
Speaker: 1
01:37:49
That’s really cool.
Speaker: 2
01:37:50
It it’s just, How far is this from Nazca? Very far. Peru is deceivingly big. Peru is, like, half the size of The United States. Really? It’s really, really big. Wow. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:38:02
Yeah. I had no idea.
Speaker: 2
01:38:03
Yeah. The Nazca ai are really, really, really far away. It’s very hard to do a You can’t do a tour of like all of Peru. It’s too big. It it would be like it would be like if you were gonna go on a United States tour, you would have to pick a place to go because it’s just so massive.
Speaker: 2
01:38:21
Usually when people ai do a tour of Peru, they’ll pick like Paracas, Nazca, You know, you pick these, desert coastline areas and you go see that. Because to get from there to the Sacred Valley is quite a journey. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:38:37
Ai take you it takes like a day and a half of consistently traveling to actually get there.
Speaker: 1
01:38:41
Have you seen the new scans of the Nazca ai where they they found new petroglyphs? Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:38:46
Yeah. Yeah. The, man, there’s gonna be so much like that that’s gonna be found. People are gonna be able to What
Speaker: 1
01:38:51
is all that stuff?
Speaker: 2
01:38:52
Fly these well, you know, it’s it’s ai. Like, how exactly, one, what’s the inspiration Right. Ram making these giant, you know, the sophistication is in the planning and the math behind how exactly you make these, how exactly you make these images in the ground that are miles wide and very intricate.
Speaker: 2
01:39:14
Like, if you look at the spider, the spider there’s a spider there that’s anatomically correct for a local spider that’s there. And there’s some aspect about the ai, a detail that they incorporate that you would only know if you were, like, really studying these little creatures and wanted to recreate it on a massive scale.
Speaker: 2
01:39:28
But the legs, man, they’re they’re mapping. I mean, look at this is this is an enormous thing in the ground that if you don’t have flight, you’re never gonna be able to know that you did it, that that you did it ai. Right? Or unless you had very meticulous planning and everything.
Speaker: 2
01:39:43
But again,
Speaker: 1
01:39:44
what’s the inspiration for this?
Speaker: 2
01:39:45
What’s the inspiration? Why would you be doing this? What is this for?
Speaker: 1
01:39:49
Why does it have that one leg that hooks off to the left?
Speaker: 0
01:39:52
I don’t know.
Speaker: 1
01:39:52
See that? That one lengthened piece? Very strange.
Speaker: 2
01:39:56
Well, you know, the Nazca, they, the the exact ai of of their civilization is a little bit blurry. But, I mean, they had they had disappeared more than a thousand years before the Spanish arrived.
Speaker: 1
01:40:10
Jamie, can I ask you what what is that all about? Why does it have all those additional lines?
Speaker: 0
01:40:13
I don’t someone’s just doing different I don’t know.
Speaker: 1
01:40:16
Is that just art?
Speaker: 0
01:40:17
Yeah. I think they’re making it on maybe one of those sand tables or something like that.
Speaker: 1
01:40:22
Cool t shirt. There’s so other weird ai, like the one that looks like an astronaut.
Speaker: 2
01:40:27
Yeah. He does. I actually think that that’s a I actually think that’s a pulpa line, which is, it’s a different culture that does the same thing. If you if you look up pulpa lines, you meh be able to see Oh,
Speaker: 1
01:40:37
so there’s quite a few of them. Look at that one, the jester one. The one with the antenna on the upper left.
Speaker: 2
01:40:41
Oh, yeah. Look at him.
Speaker: 1
01:40:42
No. No. No. Ai know. That yeah. There it is. Like that one. Where does
Speaker: 2
01:40:46
that come
Speaker: 1
01:40:46
from? Can’t make it that big. Make it a little smaller. There you go. What is that?
Speaker: 0
01:40:50
So AI And
Speaker: 2
01:40:51
why is it covers.
Speaker: 1
01:40:52
What’s that?
Speaker: 0
01:40:53
It says AI on covers.
Speaker: 2
01:40:54
Oh, are they AI?
Speaker: 1
01:40:55
But this is AI. Oh, okay.
Speaker: 2
01:40:56
Ai sorry.
Speaker: 1
01:40:56
Yeah. This is the AI. Oh, wait. Look at look at the shark.
Speaker: 0
01:40:59
Look at
Speaker: 2
01:40:59
the shark on there. Ain’t that cool? So you have seafaring. Dude. Okay. Do you know of Vanapu in in, Easter Island? It’s I think it’s called Vanapu. It’s this platform building that on Easter Island with all the big heads that is the exact same architecture as what we’re seeing in Peru.
Speaker: 2
01:41:18
These people are traveling out into the Pacific Ocean and back. You know, it just it’s it’s fascinating, man. Thor Heyerdahl with Contiki, he proved it. Yep. There we go.
Speaker: 2
01:41:29
Yeah. So, you know, it’s fallen apart. It’s not the same stone. It’s a it’s a local volcanic sandstone, I think. I don’t think that this is basalt.
Speaker: 2
01:41:38
It might be vatsal, but it’s a volcanic it’s a volcanic stone. I’m actually pretty sure it’s basalt. It’s made out of the same thing of of the Easter Island heads. So you have this Vanapu but, another project that that Ai Exploration Center is working on later this year is we’re going down to, make a new updated map, archaeological map of Easter Island, Rapa Nui.
Speaker: 2
01:42:02
And, I’m not going but this is doctor Barnhart doing it. And there’s another site down on the remote end of the island where there’s another structure like this that you never see meh. And so that we’re gonna document that and put that out. So there’s no doubt that I mean, these people are incredibly advanced, incredibly connected, incredibly intelligent, and it’s just so mysterious. Okay. Do you know of the Blythe lines?
Speaker: 0
01:42:26
Have you
Speaker: 2
01:42:26
ever noticed?
Speaker: 0
01:42:27
No.
Speaker: 2
01:42:27
Blythe, California. There are there are Nazca lines up there. Really? Yeah. Yeah. We should look this up. Yeah. So Where’s Blythe? I think it’s right before you get to Nevada. You’re, like, driving so if you if you, you’ll pass right by if you’re driving from Las Vegas into California, I think. So Blythe Lines. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:42:47
We should, yeah, we should zoom in from Google Earth. This would be cool.
Speaker: 0
01:42:49
It’s right
Speaker: 1
01:42:50
there. Where is it, Jimmy?
Speaker: 0
01:42:52
It’s on the 10. It’s on the 10? I was trying it’s like right where my cursor is. So
Speaker: 2
01:42:56
Oh, so that’s Blythe, California. You might be able to look up Blythe ai.
Speaker: 1
01:43:00
No. I did, but I
Speaker: 0
01:43:01
was trying to use it where it was. Ai I was trying to show you where it was. Oh, sorry.
Speaker: 1
01:43:04
So these are the oh, woah.
Speaker: 2
01:43:06
Yeah. They’re huge.
Speaker: 1
01:43:07
Woah.
Speaker: 2
01:43:09
Sai, dude, this is not What
Speaker: 1
01:43:11
the fuck is that?
Speaker: 2
01:43:13
This this is I mean, to me, it’s pretty obvious that there are people who are and, this is they think that this is younger than the Nazca ai. But even if it is, it’s pretty obvious to me that you have traders and you have people who are very capable of traveling all up and down The Americas.
Speaker: 2
01:43:34
It’s all interconnected. And I How many of these lines exist? It’s it’s not really, majorly studied, but I think that there’s a few of these of these images that are out there and more that are further off into the desert that some people have,
Speaker: 1
01:43:48
One of them was a monkey. Yeah. How do they even know what monkeys are?
Speaker: 0
01:43:51
Well, I’m trying to figure out what they
Speaker: 2
01:43:53
Well, okay. Here’s that’s a great that’s a great question. There
Speaker: 1
01:43:56
Were there monkeys in California?
Speaker: 2
01:43:58
No. I doubt it. But there are, an idea of how this could happen is so at Teotihuacan, like I was talking to you, this is an hour north of Mexico City. There were monkeys that we have found that were in zoos in Teotihuacan, like like dead monkeys that are buried. And this species of monkey is only found in the Southern Amazon. So it’s all the way up in Northern Mexico. So all of these things are connected. Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:44:23
Another another, Jamie, could we look up, please
Speaker: 0
01:44:28
For clarity, that one was an Ascalon. The monkey was not in the California. Oh,
Speaker: 1
01:44:32
okay. Okay. That makes sense.
Speaker: 0
01:44:33
It came up. Okay. Just checked. Yep. Sai they
Speaker: 2
01:44:35
have Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:44:35
Yeah. Yeah. Those monkeys are improved.
Speaker: 2
01:44:37
Well, even so, there are there are Amazonian monkeys that are
Speaker: 1
01:44:40
coming on with it. What the other ai are. I was
Speaker: 0
01:44:41
trying to go through it. The the article started showing different stuff because
Speaker: 1
01:44:44
it was explaining what they were. So comparisons to NASA.
Speaker: 0
01:44:47
They’re found in 1932 by a pilot. That’s why I was trying
Speaker: 1
01:44:50
to figure out, okay, speak, one of them looks
Speaker: 0
01:44:52
like a giraffe. It sort of does.
Speaker: 1
01:44:55
Fence around it. Be a deer.
Speaker: 2
01:44:56
Yeah. It could be a deer. But are deer arya are deer out there?
Speaker: 0
01:45:01
Quadruped, it says.
Speaker: 1
01:45:02
Well, there’s deer in California for sure. Mhmm. There’s probably mule deer in that part of the country. There certainly is in Nevada. Nevada has a big population of deer.
Speaker: 0
01:45:14
California has a figure represents horses reintroduced historical date sometime after the 1,500, so maybe some they don’t know when these people
Speaker: 1
01:45:21
come back up again. They don’t see that again? Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:45:22
They have no idea.
Speaker: 1
01:45:23
I don’t know if that’s a horse.
Speaker: 2
01:45:25
Doesn’t look like horse to me. I think it’ll
Speaker: 1
01:45:27
The tail, though, is sai lot lot longer than
Speaker: 0
01:45:29
a deer.
Speaker: 2
01:45:29
Oh, yeah. A little a deer, they’ve got the little Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:45:31
Tail. It’s like a shitty artist
Speaker: 0
01:45:33
ai. I was stumbling down something with the, Olmec stuff. I think it was the Olmec. Mhmm. That there’s a bunch this ai see a zoomorphs here. There’s a bunch of other weird rocks that had, like, anthropomorphized animals Meh. Laying on top of humans. Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:45:48
Do you know about have you ever heard of werejaguars? No. Oh, dude. This is ai this is my shit. Okay. So werejaguars. It is another piece of evidence of at least well, the lower part of North America connecting with the Amazon. Oh, dude. This is this is badass. Alright. So, so the very first some of the first evidence that we have of people in The Meh.
Speaker: 2
01:46:14
So you think of, like, where do you where do you imagine that people migrate into The Americas? Like, where do you think we would find the first evidence at?
Speaker: 1
01:46:22
Oh, boy. Well, I would imagine it’d be somewhere where the Olmecs were.
Speaker: 2
01:46:30
Mhmm. Yeah. Maybe so. Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, traditionally sure. Sure. Traditionally, people think that maybe you would find it, you know, in Alaska coming in. You know, people migrating over during or before and after the ai age. Sure. Or I’m sorry, during and before the ice age.
Speaker: 2
01:46:49
And then some people might think that, you know, you have Polynesians that are skipping across the the Pacific that are coming into but most of the time, it’s West Coast. You’d find people think you’d find something out there. Some of the oldest evidence that we have are 30,000 year old caves on the East Side Of The Amazon.
Speaker: 2
01:47:07
On the East Side, the opposite side of The Meh. As far away as you can possibly get from, you know, where people would have traditionally arrived in The Americas. Now, that evidence is constantly changing. There’s constantly new things that are being found ai white sands and there’s what a 50,000 year old, like bone tools or chisels that are being found where people were cutting into wooly mammoth bones.
Speaker: 2
01:47:29
You know, crazy stuff. But one of these old evidences is, people in the Amazon 20 to 30,000 years ago on the East Coast in Brazil, on the Atlantic Coast. And they have these, I think it meh have been Teddy Roosevelt’s granddaughter that found this. She was she was a South American archaeologist.
Speaker: 2
01:47:49
She was inspired to to go to the Amazon. Oh, wow. And, so it’s really interesting. In the Olmec realm, there’s what’s called a werejaguar. It’s just like a, you know, it’s like a werewolf spelled, you know, sort of the same.
Speaker: 2
01:48:04
But you have this you have these two different dichotomies in the Olmec world. You have the Olmec heads, which ai the way, I brought you a head. Oh,
Speaker: 1
01:48:12
nice. More stuff for this table.
Speaker: 0
01:48:16
Let’s see. We got it.
Speaker: 1
01:48:17
Sit right next to heckle fish.
Speaker: 2
01:48:18
So this is made so this is made from basalt by the modern Olmec people. Woah.
Speaker: 1
01:48:26
That’s cool.
Speaker: 2
01:48:27
Yeah. Super cool. So these guys
Speaker: 1
01:48:30
Thank you.
Speaker: 2
01:48:32
These guys, we don’t know who they are. We don’t know exactly what they represent, because they’re they’re just guys with normal faces, you know. They’re they have Olmec faces, but they’re all wearing this helmet. What the hell does the helmet mean? It could be two different things.
Speaker: 2
01:48:47
It’s a signature of their divine, like, rulership, like ai, we think they might be kings.
Speaker: 1
01:48:51
A crown.
Speaker: 2
01:48:52
Somebody who can, you know, somebody who can commission a monument this big. This is a testament to his power. Or these are revered ballgame players, the Mesoamerican ballgame. I’m sure you’ve dove dove into this sai little bit. Or it’s both. That the, you know, the most masculine thing that you can be is a great Mesoamerican ballgame player. And that’s the king. He wants to see himself out of it.
Speaker: 2
01:49:12
It’s the same thing as, Marcus Aurelius’ sana. Why am I forgetting his name? The the really bad emperor. God, I can’t remember his name. But anyways, he wanted to be seen like Hercules fighting in the in the Colosseum. And, so we think this might be a kinda similar thing.
Speaker: 2
01:49:28
There’s a whole different type of people that are existing in the Olmec realm. We can look up, Olmec werejaguar, please, Jamie. Thank you. And, there’s a whole different type of person. So here’s one image.
Speaker: 2
01:49:43
If you keep scrolling, you’ll sai, images that are carved into so this is a little bit of a better image right here. But sometimes when they’re carved into jade and you can see the light reflecting off of it, you get a better, you get a better, image of what these things really look like.
Speaker: 2
01:49:59
So were jaguar, Olmec, and maybe do jade. Oh, yeah. There we go. Top top right. Yeah. Check that guy out. So that’s a so that’s a human.
Speaker: 2
01:50:09
That’s not an animal. It is a human who has turned into the essence of a jaguar. And we see this everywhere, all over the Olmec world, but they’re never the colossal heads. They’re always in jade or they’re smaller Olmec monuments. And sometimes, the heads are sometimes the heads are, are maimed ai that or the head is just completely destroyed and there’s these jaguar claws.
Speaker: 2
01:50:34
It’s claws that are carved into an Olmec face ai tearing apart his face, tearing apart the symbol that’s on the top of their head. And sana lot of people wondered like ai are these scratch marks in all of these Olmec monuments. But all the scratch marks only appear in Olmec monuments that are not the Meh Jaguar.
Speaker: 2
01:50:51
And so what I think, this is a little bit of research Ai doing and I’m writing a book on the Olmecs right now, is what I think is there’s a feud between the rulers and the shamanic class. And I think that these were jaguar people, these people who are taking some kind of hallucinogen, taking a ai, and and basically imbuing the essence of a jaguar in some strange crazy way that we can’t explain.
Speaker: 2
01:51:15
These are feuding with each other. And when I’m in Mexico and I’m in these museums where you have these mushroom stone effigies that are all lined up, I’ll ask a local archaeologist there. And I’ll be like, sai these mushrooms, do you think that these depict hallucinogens that peep that they may have been taking to get high? Oh, no. No. No. No.
Speaker: 2
01:51:35
No. Ai like, really? You don’t like, you look at all the crazy shit that ancient Americans are making. If you look at ancient American artwork anywhere, you can tell it’s all, like, mind bending stuff to look at. They’re they’re clearly I think they’re being influenced by plants.
Speaker: 2
01:51:49
Now, this werejaguar isn’t just isolated to the Olmec world. It also pops up at a place called Chavin De Huantar.
Speaker: 0
01:51:58
Have you
Speaker: 2
01:51:58
ever heard of this?
Speaker: 1
01:51:58
No.
Speaker: 2
01:51:59
This is in the Andes. It’s one of the oldest cities in the Andes. So before Chavin, we can follow the DNA evidence of burials. Like you can tell, like, okay, these these people are younger if we carbon date their bodies that are buried underneath these temples, and they’re related to these people that are older.
Speaker: 2
01:52:14
So you’re trying to piece together this DNA meh, but it’s very very loose. So there’s a place called, there’s a culture called Koral Supe Culture and, they are building pyramids before the old Kingdom Of Egypt ever even existed. This is this is 5,500 years ago at least, on the coast of Peru, like right on the beach. And there’s ai 15 huge pyramids out there.
Speaker: 2
01:52:37
But this is a non pottery, non artistic culture. So we don’t have pottery and we don’t have art from them, and we don’t have stone statues or anything like ai, just these structures. And from what we can tell, they keep getting hit by these, like, apocalyptic storms, these tropical El Ninos and La Ninas that are just destroying their civilization.
Speaker: 2
01:52:56
They’re trying to to to rebuild it again. And eventually, they say, you know what? Forget this. We’re moving up into the Andes. Well, when they move up into the Andes on Chavin De Huantar, they then come in contact with Amazonians. They meet Amazonians for the first time.
Speaker: 2
01:53:10
And all of a sudden, these people, they have pottery, they have art, they have gods, they have a pantheon, they have stone statues, And they are werejaguars. They they are these shamanic people. Oh, this is from oh, this is is this on ai, ex? Oh, cool. So, so I posted about this today.
Speaker: 2
01:53:28
So these faces right here, these are on the side of the Temple Of Chavin that faces East off into the Amazon. And when you look at Chavin pottery, it’s the same as Amazonian pottery in the region. So the people of the Andes, as soon as they interact with the Amazon, they take they they acquire this religion, this culture, this iconography.
Speaker: 2
01:53:50
They completely change as a people and they start building the first structures that we know of that have interiors. Because before this, these pyramids that were out on the coastline, you’re like walking on top of this big stone mound. But at Chavin, it’s a it’s a huge square style building that you can that has open doors that you can walk in through.
Speaker: 2
01:54:13
And all of this happens as soon as they interact with Amazonians. And Oh. Sai, yeah. So this is it’s a huge structure. And the, the stones that make up the staircases oh, my God. Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:54:27
Have you seen, the name is escaping me right now, but, but Wandering Wolf went out there, Michael Collins, and he found the the air. He saw these big trilithon stones that are sitting on the side of the mountain in Peru. Do you remember this?
Speaker: 1
01:54:39
Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
01:54:39
Giant stones. That white stone is the same white stone that’s used in the staircases and on the, door ram and the lintels here at Chavin. So you see that the the open door right there at the bottom? Yeah. So those white stones on the side, those stones may have come from that quarry that he went and visited, where those gigantic, you know, trilithon Balbec ai stones.
Speaker: 0
01:55:01
How far
Speaker: 2
01:55:01
is that? It’s really, really far from here. I I don’t I don’t know. That would be something good that I should know. So some of it’s megalithic, some of it’s decent ai. It’s it’s really that front wall right there with that entrance, the steps going up to it. And then on the inside of the temple, you have the megalithic stonework. And then you have this, then you have this, monolith on the inside.
Speaker: 2
01:55:21
So you see this guy? Look at that. That’s that’s a that’s a human with jaguar fangs coming out of his mouth. And all of these tenon heads that are on the side of the temple, they’re facing out towards the Amazon. It’s telling us that this religion, this idea of these people who are somehow doing these shamanic practices, which I think are so clearly, so obviously, is plants ai Ayahuasca or whatever it is, inducing these people into a state of consciousness where somehow they’re taking on the effects of the jaguar.
Speaker: 2
01:55:51
Like, you and Paul Rosalie talked about this. And when he was talking about his, his experience with Ayahuasca, I believe he said, and maybe it’s on this show, that for a moment, like, he shrunk down to the size of an atom and he’s floating through the Amazon, and then all of a sudden, he was looking through, like, the eyes of a jaguar for a moment.
Speaker: 2
01:56:08
And this is something that
Speaker: 1
01:56:09
Constant theme amongst people who’ve done Ayahuasca.
Speaker: 2
01:56:12
Yeah. Yeah. So this is something that Ai think I think it’s I think it’s evidence. I mean, we can go we can talk about this forever, but I think there’s so much evidence. Oh, isn’t this cool? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:56:22
Well, there’s also evidence that jaguars eat the same plants.
Speaker: 2
01:56:25
Yes. Yeah. Have you seen this on, what is it? Weird Nature? There’s a documentary out there called Weird Nature.
Speaker: 1
01:56:32
The Jaguars Tripping?
Speaker: 2
01:56:33
Yeah. And, and it’s it, like, it makes it, it makes it akin to, like, catnip. And it’s like the jaguar also has its own
Speaker: 1
01:56:41
This is why I brought this up. Terrence Baguette had a very fascinating theory about why ketamine in particular feels like an empty office building. Uh-huh. His his theory it’s like ketamine is like you enter a realm, but there’s no one there. Mhmm. And this is, by the way, he’s talking about ketamine in, like, the eighties and nineties. Okay.
Speaker: 1
01:57:01
Whereas his theory is that when you imbibe, when you take a psychedelic medicine, when you take any sort of psychedelic plant, mushroom, whatever it is, you’re not just having an experience, you are also interacting with all of the experiences that have ever been had with these things, which is
Speaker: 0
01:57:24
one of
Speaker: 1
01:57:24
the reasons why when people take certain psychedelics, they have very, clear Egyptian iconography appears in their in their trip.
Speaker: 0
01:57:34
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:57:34
And his belief or his theory was that it’s far more complex than you’re taking a psychedelic drug. You’re taking this psychedelic that allows you to interact with all the experiences anyone has ever had with those.
Speaker: 0
01:57:48
Oh, wow.
Speaker: 1
01:57:49
Including jaguars. Now Oh,
Speaker: 2
01:57:52
that’s fascinating.
Speaker: 1
01:57:53
Also, there’s always been this conflict between the ruling class and this shamanic rituals. This is the Eleusinian
Speaker: 0
01:58:01
mysteries. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:58:02
They shah all that stuff down. Absolutely. Wouldn’t it make sense that the claw marks would represent the battle between the Shamans and these ruling class Yeah. Who, of course, don’t want people tripping and opening their mind and questioning authority and trying to restructure everything and, like, it’d be a huge problem if you’re, like, a Zahi Hawass guy trying to keep the the lid on everything and just keep control and power and and then you got all these people that are tripping balls that, like, have completely different ideas that you you have to silence that.
Speaker: 1
01:58:33
Well, what’s the what’s the issue here? The issue is these guys, they get together in a circle and they drink this stuff and then they start having these wacky ideas. Let’s put a stop to that. Let’s put us the same way they did with the Eleusinian Mysteries. The same way they’ve done countless times.
Speaker: 1
01:58:46
Shamans that were ai, the whole Santa Claus things where he’s coming down the chimney. Why was that? Well, it was because Siberian ai were ostracized. They were they were forced to actually not go through the doorways because they had to sneak into people’s homes. So they came down chimneys. This is the theory.
Speaker: 2
01:59:03
Oh, that’s fascinating.
Speaker: 0
01:59:04
You know,
Speaker: 1
01:59:04
which is, like, why the fuck would Santa come down the chimney? It doesn’t make any sense. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was the ai. Like, shah Sana a shaman. Also, shot Santa, at least in modern depictions, has the exact same coloration as the Amanita muscaria mushroom. Oh, wow. You’ve never seen the the comparison to Santa and the mushroom?
Speaker: 0
01:59:21
No. No.
Speaker: 1
01:59:22
The fascinating comparison, and this is also hotly debated, you know, they sai no. Well, Coca Cola was the ones that made them red and white, the Santa Clauses. Yeah. Maybe. But there’s old pictures of Christmas images that always include elves and Amanita muscaria mushrooms. Mhmm. There’s old Christmas cards from, like, the turn of the century.
Speaker: 1
01:59:43
There’s old, like, Meh Christmas. It’s fucking mushrooms. There’s mushrooms everywhere. Yeah. So mushrooms have a mycorrhizal relationship with coniferous trees, particularly Amanita muscarias.
Speaker: 1
01:59:55
You would find them underneath pine trees, the same way you find brightly colored presents under Christmas trees. In order to dry them, they would pick these mushrooms and hang them in the trees so they would air dry just like ornaments on a tree. Wow. There’s so many parallels. It’s really weird. The Santa Waza mushroom one is a weird one.
Speaker: 1
02:00:21
It’s a really weird one because there’s a ton of the like, why are we so interested in fucking pine trees?
Speaker: 0
02:00:26
Why is
Speaker: 1
02:00:26
it well, those trees had this very connected relationship which with those mushrooms.
Speaker: 2
02:00:34
Yeah. Well, you know, I find that
Speaker: 1
02:00:35
So you can find some of them ancient pictures of, Christmas ancient Meh Christmas images. But this is ai Yeah. Look. And the the that look this look at that shah. That shaman to the left. Go back to scroll back. Look out. Look at that. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:00:49
Siberian shaman looks exactly like the coloration
Speaker: 0
02:00:52
Wow.
Speaker: 1
02:00:53
Of an anime Ai Muscari. Now go to that merry Christmas image that you have there right next to your cursor. Look at that. Amanita Muscaria. A Meh Christmas and a Happy New Year. Amanita Muscaria image. These, women with good times Christmas or these children, rather, Have
Speaker: 2
02:01:10
you ever tried these mushrooms?
Speaker: 1
02:01:11
Yes. Didn’t work.
Speaker: 2
02:01:12
Really?
Speaker: 1
02:01:13
Yeah. That’s too ai? I think there’s well, McKenna didn’t have a good experience with them either. And there’s there’s a lot of thoughts that he had about whether or not they were genetically variable, whether or not they’re geographically, and they’ve even seasonally variable that you’re not dealing with the same mushrooms.
Speaker: 1
02:01:31
Sort of ai, you you know, there’s different ai. Like, obviously, manipulated, but there’s a very different version of banana that we’re enjoying today
Speaker: 0
02:01:41
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:01:41
Versus the wild banana.
Speaker: 2
02:01:42
Oh, corn too. Yes.
Speaker: 1
02:01:44
Maize. Oh my gosh.
Speaker: 2
02:01:45
So different.
Speaker: 1
02:01:45
Lot of different plants of, like, similar history. It’s I mean, fungus is a very different thing. Right? Because fungus actually breathe air. They’re not plants. Mhmm. They’re much meh closer to animals than they are to plants.
Speaker: 0
02:01:58
Oh, that’s fascinating.
Speaker: 1
02:01:59
Yeah. They’re real weird. And they’re also really weird that they seem to be ai the Internet for plants. Ai, the mycorrhizal relationship and the fact that they have this very bizarre network of mycelium that’s under the ground. Like, the largest living organism is a mushroom colony that exists, I believe, in the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker: 2
02:02:20
Oh, really?
Speaker: 1
02:02:21
Yeah. Let’s see if you can find that. Yeah. So instead of, like, saying, oh, there’s a mushroom that pops out of the ground. No. That’s ai the fruiting body of the entire thing. Mhmm. The entire thing is enormous. Yeah. And it’s communicating with plants. It’s helping the plants distribute and share resources.
Speaker: 0
02:02:40
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:02:41
It’s helping them get information. It’s very strange. You know, Paul Stamets is, like, the the best guy to talk to about this stuff. He’s a a mycologist ai that he actually gave me that big ass mushroom at the end of
Speaker: 0
02:02:53
the table.
Speaker: 1
02:02:54
Oh. That’s a mushroom. Yeah. It’s weird. Weird. They’re weird.
Speaker: 2
02:02:57
You know, this this whole conversation Here
Speaker: 1
02:02:59
it is. The largest organism on Earth is a fungus. The blue whale’s big, but nowhere near as huge as a sprawling fungus in Eastern Oregon. Yeah. Holy crap. Yeah. And again, it fucking breathes air.
Speaker: 2
02:03:12
Could be as ancient as eight hundred as eight thousand six hundred and fifty years.
Speaker: 1
02:03:17
Yeah. Good night. Good night. This is ai. Wild stuff. And, you know, this is what we know about. Right? Like, what about what the fuck is in the Amazon?
Speaker: 2
02:03:28
Oh, my god, man. Well Yeah. Okay. Okay. So two things there as far as what’s in the Amazon. First, think about how let’s just talk about North America above Mesoamerica. So, like, let’s just, let’s just include, like, the modern day United States. Think about all the tribes that existed here, how complicated these histories are. You know, Squanto is born in the early sixteen hundreds, among these tribes in Massachusetts.
Speaker: 2
02:03:52
And when he comes back, he forms this thing called the Wampanoag Confederation, whatever whatever. Just in that little area, there’s all these different cultures with their own history, their own knowledge, and everything. That’s one little part of Massachusetts. Now think about the rest of the country and how vast and sprawling and intricate and how deep that history really goes.
Speaker: 2
02:04:12
And you can just you could place The United States inside the Amazon. That’s how big the Amazon is.
Speaker: 1
02:04:17
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:04:18
And we just refer to natives, tribes who lived in the Amazon as Amazonians. But it’s got it’s so much more complicated than than just that. Now the next thing is this whole conversation about talking about the were ai, you know, I get a lot of, I get a lot of flack for this for this topic because, you know, you have, let’s just call it, like, boomer archeologists who, have this knee jerk reaction to psychedelics and hallucinogens because it’s so ingrained in them that ai all drugs are bad as if all drugs are the same.
Speaker: 2
02:04:47
You know what I mean? Right. And, I’ve been talking to this, Ai I was in Mexico last year and we were, in the Yucatan, and I was there with an archaeologist from the Midwest, and he was an archaeoastronomer, which is, like I was saying earlier, it’s a ai who studies the way that, I think it’s like Pueblo ancestral, tribes would have interacted with the night sky and studied the night sky.
Speaker: 2
02:05:11
And I was like, I asked him, I said, okay. So what kind of hallucinogens do you think they would have had? And I think he told me like peyote and cannabis and stuff like that. And I was like, okay. So have you ever, and, you know, we were ai every night, we we meh together and we’d all smoke and just talk about ancient history and stuff.
Speaker: 2
02:05:27
You know, you come up with so many interesting ideas and perspectives and points of view, you know, when you smoke with, like, like, an actual purpose and you’re trying to Mhmm. You know, think. I’m sure you know very well ai I’m talking about. And, Ai and so he’s sitting around with all of us and he doesn’t want, you know, he’s he’s not interested.
Speaker: 2
02:05:42
And I’m like I’m like, so you’ve been studying archaeoastronomy for this saloni, have you ever tried cannabis or peyote or anything that’s up there? I think there’s another one called Datura. Have you ever heard of this?
Speaker: 1
02:05:52
That one’s supposed to be very weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ai experiences with that.
Speaker: 2
02:05:57
Oh, really? Well, maybe Just
Speaker: 1
02:05:58
completely disassociates you. He was having a conversation with a guy in a arya, and he realized in the middle of the conversation, the guy thought that they were, in his apartment. Oh. Yeah. Like, it does weird things.
Speaker: 2
02:06:10
Yeah. Well, it might explain why Teotihuacan civilization and all their iconography is so terrifying. Like, if you look up, the great goddess of Teotihuacan, it’s these guys with handbags picking, picking this datura and, like, putting them in their handbags.
Speaker: 1
02:06:24
Oh, boy.
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02:06:25
And, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:06:26
Oh, so that’s a weird one about
Speaker: 2
02:06:27
that. Sai their their whole their whole civilization is, like, very dark and scary. But I asked this archaeologist. I said, okay. Have you ever gone out and studied the stars, you know, from the Native American point of view ai you’re smoking cannabis or you take peyote? And he’s ai, oh, no. I I wouldn’t do that.
Speaker: 2
02:06:43
And I’m like, you have committed your entire life to studying this ancient culture that you know very well was studying the stars and taking hallucinogens. And you, as someone who’s supposed to be an expert in this field, you don’t want to put yourself in the shoes of these people.
Speaker: 2
02:07:00
I was like I was like, dude, if you laid out at night with all everything you know about the Puebloan ancestral people and you smoked weed for the first time or you, did peyote or something, you stayed up and looked in the stars, you might have an epiphany about something that you’ve never realized because your brain’s just operating in a different way than it normally does.
Speaker: 2
02:07:17
And, he was very slow to, like, you know, to be open to this ai. And, you know, the Zahi thing ai reminded me of this is, like, you know, he has preconceived ideas about his world and his personal beliefs that interact with the archaeology, you know. And so it’s really hard for us to study the ancient world from a completely unbiased point of view because you have so many preconceived ideas about your modern world that influence your archaeology.
Speaker: 2
02:07:44
And that’s why the widely, that’s why there’s no widely accepted, or it’s not widely accepted among archaeologists that Native Americans were heavily influenced by hallucinogens. I really think it’s because so many of these people are, you know, older archaeologists that have a knee jerk reaction to drugs of any ai, and they couldn’t possibly fathom the reality that the culture they spent their ai studying are all doing hallucinogens all the time.
Speaker: 2
02:08:10
And that’s Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:08:11
Unquestionably. Unquestionably.
Speaker: 2
02:08:13
It’s totally obvious. It’s completely obvious. Yeah. But, yeah. It’s Well, it’s also these
Speaker: 1
02:08:18
people that haven’t had these experiences, so they don’t know what the effects would be?
Speaker: 2
02:08:21
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:08:22
So they’re they’re basically just guessing Yeah. And a lot of it is based on just say no propaganda from the fucking eighties.
Speaker: 2
02:08:28
It it really is, man. I I was telling my, I was telling my wife this, like, I didn’t you know, I don’t smoke a lot. When I do, I’m, like, out in Big Bend, you know, out looking at the stars and stuff. And every time I smoke, it’s like some kind of purpose. Like, you know, I’m I’m in like some kind of sacred place and and Ai don’t do anything harder than than just smoke cannabis.
Speaker: 2
02:08:45
But whenever I do, I have some kind of realization about myself personally. You know, like the first time, I don’t know, six or seven years ago when I first smoked, I was laying up looking at the night ai, and we had taken some photos out in the desert. And I was looking at myself, and I put on a little bit of weight. And as I was looking at myself, I had disassociated.
Speaker: 2
02:09:01
And I was like, this person does not represent the brain that’s in my mind. I need to lose some damn weight. You know, I had this realization about myself. The last time, I was out, I was out in Big Bend laying under the stars in the middle of the desert. And, and I had this, like, realization that, you know, all the time I spend traveling and and I get to see so many amazing, ancient sites and meet so many cool people.
Speaker: 2
02:09:25
And Ai just constantly go go go go go go. Like I’m trying to just make this life work. And I had this realization that the most important thing I do is is make dinner for my wife and take my dog on walks. And I had I would have never had that, like, epiphany. Like, dude, all this stuff is really cool, but it’s for fun.
Speaker: 2
02:09:43
And this is the stuff that you love. Your purpose is to take your dog on walks and spend time with your wife. And one day, it’s gonna be to spend time with your kids. And every time I go into it with this idea that I hope that I have some kind of realization, I always do. And, and it’s just ai I have this It’s ai, I know that ancient plant medicine is ai the key to unlocking so much of the ancient world.
Speaker: 2
02:10:06
And, and, so
Speaker: 1
02:10:09
To ignore the that knowing that they imbibed to ignore that knowing that it was a part of these sacred rituals is ai silly. Sai especially when you deal with the Amazon and Ayahuasca. Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah. I mean, if you’re gonna be in a place where you wanna completely convene with nature, like, that’s the place. Mhmm. Like, that that’s the place.
Speaker: 1
02:10:28
And if you there’s this insanely profound hallucinogen, you know, that the brain produces endogenously, that can be extracted from plants through this really weird method
Speaker: 0
02:10:42
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:10:42
Where you’re taking one plant that has the drug in it, another plant which is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor
Speaker: 0
02:10:48
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:10:49
And you’re combining them together in in the perfect amount and boiling it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It tastes like shah. Like, why are you doing this? Like, how’d you learn? And then when they’ve you ask them how they learn how to do this, they’re like, the plants taught us?
Speaker: 2
02:11:01
Yeah. I know. Right? You know, and then you they can take that you can take that same chemical and they’ll pour it in the water. And rather than fishing or, you know, spearing fish in the water or hooking them, they pour it into the water in these little you know, they create these little canals off of the Amazon and and fish, piranha, whatever will swim up in it.
Speaker: 2
02:11:17
And they pour that they pour that that liquid, whatever that hallucinogen isn’t, and it stuns the fish. And they all come to the top, and they only take what they need and they send the rest back, which is another reason why I don’t think that Native Americans are responsible for the extinction of all the megafauna in The Americas because, you know, okay.
Speaker: 2
02:11:33
So I’m so I’m out in the woods in East Texas A Couple Weeks ago, and we’re just walking around. We’re talking about the Caddo people. Have you heard of the Caddo Indians before? And I was trying to talk to my friend who doesn’t know a lot about Native Meh, trying to, like, tell him trying to give him the essence of the people.
Speaker: 2
02:11:49
And then the words came to me, and I was like I was like, if nature itself took an anthropomorphic form, that’s the Native American. These are people that lived perfectly with their environment or tried to. At least most of them did. And, yeah. It’s just, it’s just, it’s amazing, man.
Speaker: 2
02:12:06
So much can be learned from that.
Speaker: 1
02:12:07
They did some wasteful things.
Speaker: 2
02:12:08
I know. I know.
Speaker: 1
02:12:09
Yeah. Like the buffalo jumps.
Speaker: 2
02:12:11
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. That’s that’s true. And and I’m I’m really speaking in generalities, like like, I could go on and on about all the horrific things that the Aztecs did. This is just a general Or
Speaker: 1
02:12:21
the Comanche.
Speaker: 2
02:12:22
Or the Comanches.
Speaker: 1
02:12:23
The other Indians.
Speaker: 2
02:12:23
You know, it’s not like this was a, it’s not a It’s not utopia. Like this was a utopia Right. At all. It was complete and utter war.
Speaker: 1
02:12:31
But then again, you’re saying embodiment of nature. Well, nature’s not utopia.
Speaker: 2
02:12:34
Exactly. Right.
Speaker: 1
02:12:35
Jaguars are not utopia. Very much so.
Speaker: 2
02:12:37
Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Sai, you know, there’s some nuance there. And, but, yeah. Ai just, I don’t know. It’s it’s just fascinating. You had a you had a good point in a podcast. I think you were talking about Orianna, his expedition down the Amazon. And you were talking about how he was able to use the stars to navigate, back to Spain.
Speaker: 2
02:13:01
And you were ai you’re like, well, you know, that’s what that’s what or not ancient people, but, you know, that’s what people used to do. Everybody was an astronomer. How much of this experience has gone to us today? We don’t sit around and look at the stars anymore. And that’s one aspect.
Speaker: 2
02:13:13
We don’t we don’t interact with, you know, natural plant based, you know, hallucinogens anymore. There’s so many things about the natural world that we don’t interact with.
Speaker: 1
02:13:21
Those two are huge. And particularly the one the first one, the stars, because people don’t even consider how much light pollution. If you ask the average person with the ai sai an average person who lives in New York City or Boston or wherever, the night sky is polluted. You just don’t think it’s polluted, but it’s polluted by light. And you’re you’re missing this incredible majestic image of the cosmos that’s so humbling. It puts you in check.
Speaker: 2
02:13:48
Yeah. For sure.
Speaker: 1
02:13:49
It puts you in check. It really does. Ai, anybody that has a ai ego, that’s gonna go away if you’re confronted with the Milky Way.
Speaker: 2
02:13:55
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:13:56
Absolutely. You have some delusions of grandeur and your your place and that you’re ai, well, it’s not possible. Yeah. Like, just look at this. It’s ai, I am nothing. I am nothing. And I’m everything. I’m a part of everything, but I am nothing.
Speaker: 2
02:14:07
And so many of these people who exist still today exist in the in the, the natural world ai the wild Mhmm. You know, Percy Fawcett, interacting with these Amazonian tribes that still live like this today. These people are still around. They’re they’re still exist.
Speaker: 1
02:14:21
Paul Rosalie sent me a video a month ago.
Speaker: 2
02:14:23
Oh, really? Yeah. You wanna see it?
Speaker: 0
02:14:24
Sure. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker: 1
02:14:25
This out. I’ll show this video. I can’t share it with the world. So ai. I’m a gate keeper. Like, everybody’s a gate keeper, I guess.
Speaker: 0
02:14:34
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:14:34
But Paul, doesn’t want people to know where these people are.
Speaker: 0
02:14:38
Sure. Sure. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:14:39
Ai to hide this stuff. But he took this video while he was, out in the Amazon, like, helping these people. So this is, like, video from his phone. God. Where is it, Paul? Oh, here it is. Joe, you can’t share this with anybody. I can’t share with anybody. I’m gonna share it with you.
Speaker: 1
02:15:04
Just make sure the camera’s not on it.
Speaker: 0
02:15:09
Wow.
Speaker: 2
02:15:12
Man, that is crazy. Wild. I mean, you’re So
Speaker: 1
02:15:16
those people are looking
Speaker: 2
02:15:18
You’re looking into the past. You’re looking way
Speaker: 1
02:15:20
into the past. I mean, way into the past.
Speaker: 2
02:15:22
Just just in your frame right there, what you were looking at has existed since the beginning of time.
Speaker: 1
02:15:27
Yes. And that’s what’s interesting is that exists at the same time as you and I talking on a podcast Yeah. Where millions of people are gonna hear it.
Speaker: 0
02:15:36
Mhmm. And it’s all electronic recording of our voice and images.
Speaker: 1
02:15:36
And then distributed on their phone instantly. Yeah. Like, all at the same time where these people are living in a whole neighborhood. They’re in
Speaker: 2
02:15:56
the same time zone as the
Speaker: 0
02:15:57
entire house.
Speaker: 2
02:15:58
Same time zone. Yeah. Whatever it is right now, it’s the same time zone.
Speaker: 1
02:16:01
That’s crazy.
Speaker: 2
02:16:01
You know? And when our civilization, when we all destroy ourselves and thousands of years go by and everything in the studio is gone, it all turns to dust, those people will continue the legacy of humanity.
Speaker: 1
02:16:12
Well, I wonder if those people are the preppers of the Amazonian world. Mhmm.
Speaker: 0
02:16:17
Do you
Speaker: 1
02:16:18
know what I mean? Mhmm. Like like, if everything did go sideways because the Europeans came over and brought all the diseases and civilization corrupt collapsed, who’s gonna live?
Speaker: 2
02:16:25
No. You you are exactly right. So when when That’s country
Speaker: 1
02:16:30
boy can’t survive. That’s like the Hank Williams Junior song in reality.
Speaker: 2
02:16:34
Dude, you’re you are exactly correct. I mean, you’re exactly correct. So when the Spaniards arrive, they they obviously they land in The Bahamas, with Columbus Fourteen Ninety Two, but they come down to, like, Hispaniola, Jamaica. And in the early fifteen hundreds, they start poking around on the shores of the Yucatan. And and they’re ai trading and interacting with these people.
Speaker: 2
02:16:56
You know, these are explorers. They’re all curious. But they didn’t realize that they were giving these Native Americans disease, and that disease was spreading through the Maya world. And maybe more than a decade later, when Cortes arrives in the Maya world, he he documents how all the Maya people are very scrawny and small and sickly and weak.
Speaker: 2
02:17:12
He didn’t realize they were all dying off. Mhmm. So eventually, Cortes conquers Tenochtitlan, the Aztec capital in 1521, and he sends, he sends Pizarro down to find the gold that the Aztecs were getting from South America or from this distant land. They didn’t a % know exactly what South America was yet. He goes down to South America, and he conquers the Inca Ai.
Speaker: 2
02:17:35
And then after that, Orianna descends down the Amazon. And when he descends down the Amazon, he sees these cities that would go on for fifteen miles long. I mean, these 15 mile long cities full of millions and millions of people, these giant circular stone buildings, these huge bustling civilizations.
Speaker: 2
02:17:53
And, and then later on in the seventeen hundreds, ’18 hundreds, and then really densely in the early nineteen hundreds, like with Percy Fawcett, Theodore Roosevelt, everyone around them, They were looking for these big cities that the Spaniards had seen, but they didn’t exist.
Speaker: 2
02:18:08
And they didn’t find any evidence of it of it at all. And a lot of people ai, like the British and the Royal, Geographic Society, they brush it off as, oh, the, the Spaniards were lying, so that they could secure funding for further expeditions, and this was like their livelihood, the way that they could stay rich.
Speaker: 2
02:18:24
Of course, then the the ai proves that these civilizations were there. Now the stuff that’s been excavated in the Amazon, we haven’t excavated anything in the center of the Amazon. It’s it’s really expensive. It’s hard to do. Archaeologists don’t wanna live out there. Whatever, whatever. There’s a million reasons why it doesn’t happen.
Speaker: 2
02:18:40
But on the peripheral of the Amazon, there are areas that get cut flat for logging. Like, you know, as civilization slowly encroaches on the Amazon, they are finding, these, villages that are these Ai mean, they’re basically cities that are these huge geoglyphs that are cutting the ground.
Speaker: 2
02:18:57
Have you seen these, in the Amazon? They’re they’re huge.
Speaker: 1
02:19:00
I believe so.
Speaker: 0
02:19:00
Yeah. So
Speaker: 1
02:19:01
I believe this is some stuff that Graham was showing.
Speaker: 2
02:19:03
Maybe so.
Speaker: 1
02:19:04
Ai if he can try something.
Speaker: 2
02:19:05
I think maybe Graham has talked about this before. Maybe he was in America before.
Speaker: 1
02:19:08
Which should he look
Speaker: 2
02:19:08
if he’s looking for image? Just Amazon geoglyphs. They’ll they’ll come up. They’re these huge squares. Yeah. Perfect. So these things are Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:19:16
We definitely talked about that.
Speaker: 2
02:19:17
These things are ai. And, and they’re all over the peripherals of the Amazon. But the this was these were the preppers living on the outside. They weren’t living in the hustle and bustle of the, you know, million plus population city in the middle of the Amazon. These are the guys living on the outside, and they all survived this apocalyptic disease that went through.
Speaker: 1
02:19:36
They’re the people living in Appalachia.
Speaker: 2
02:19:38
Exactly. My own folks. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Actually, I’m moving there tomorrow.
Speaker: 1
02:19:42
Are you really? Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:19:43
I’m in the middle of moving right now.
Speaker: 1
02:19:44
Woah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:19:45
So What
Speaker: 1
02:19:45
a cool place to live.
Speaker: 2
02:19:47
Yeah. It’s it’s beautiful up there, man. Dude, it’s it’s an ancient place. Have you heard of the Nantahala Rainforest? No. Oh, you gotta go there tomorrow. Yeah. It’s it’s in Western North Carolina in in, Appalachia. I grew up I grew up going to Nantahala every year. My parents live in Nantahala now, and it’s it’s a beautiful, completely magical place.
Speaker: 2
02:20:09
And it was it was part of what inspired this, like, explorer, you know, ai of thing in me. When you’re there, I even as a kid, I knew that this was an ancient place. It turns out as an adult when I ai researching it, it’s this pocket of green I mean, solid dark green rainforest. In The US, we have three rainforests.
Speaker: 2
02:20:28
We have Hawaii, we have Oregon, and we have the Nantahala Rainforest that most people don’t know about. It’s this pocket in the middle of these mountains that has looked exactly the same since before the ice age. It’s one of the oldest places in North America.
Speaker: 0
02:20:41
Wow.
Speaker: 2
02:20:42
And, it’s just a it’s just an an incredibly magical old ancient place. And, I’m just, like, drawn back there. But anyways, yeah. You should go you should go check that out.
Speaker: 1
02:20:53
That sounds incredible. Yeah. Yeah. You’re gonna live out in that arya? In the Appalachians? Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:20:58
Yeah. Well well, so my my wife is, so she’s, like, from South Ai, and she came to, she came to Texas when she was younger and then we met in college. And, my my family, when we first moved to The States, like, my family moved to North Carolina in, like, 1694 or something crazy like that.
Speaker: 2
02:21:18
And, and so we have some roots up there. Have you ever been to Gatlinburg, Tennessee? No. So the the first name of Gatlinburg was Reagan Town. And so that was where my, my my family were were one of the founders of that town. There’s an old hotel there called Reagan Motel.
Speaker: 2
02:21:31
So my family’s originally from there, and then they moved down to Texas and started cattle rustling in the in the late eighteen nineties. Ai I don’t know. Just drawn back up there. Ai always loved vacationing there. And so my wife and I are, like, in the middle of moving right now.
Speaker: 2
02:21:44
And so, two days ago, we packed up these two U Hauls, drove them to East Texas to my in laws, and then we drove to Austin last night, got a hotel doing this. Tonight, we drive back to East Texas. And then tomorrow, we drive to North Carolina. Wow.
Speaker: 0
02:21:56
Yeah. So
Speaker: 1
02:21:56
Sai what is the history in terms of, like, human occupation in that area?
Speaker: 2
02:22:02
Meh. The people sprouted out of the ground. Yeah. It’s it’s that old, man. There are, that’s something I’m I’m really looking forward to getting into. And I’m kind of excited in a way to get out of Texas because it’s hard to study Native American history in Texas because you gotta travel so far arya everything’s so arid.
Speaker: 2
02:22:18
Like, you know, Austin, this was this was an ancient Native American settlement here that we have built this city on top of. The Alamo in San Antonio was built on top of a a Native American, settlement. And, you know, all of our major cities are just a reskin of an ancient city. And in Texas, it’s really hard.
Speaker: 2
02:22:35
Like, we have the Galt site that’s here in, that’s here in Austin that proves that, Clovis First was wrong. You meh maybe you’re familiar with this. But up there, you’re closer to Mound Country and, you know, where all the mound builders are arya a little bit north of that.
Speaker: 2
02:22:50
But in, North Carolina, it’s one of the places that the Spaniards had a really hard time infiltrating because of the mountain ranges and because of how fierce the Native Americans were. And so, the archaeological projects up there are headed up by, like, two hillbillies that live in the country, and they’re the coolest guys.
Speaker: 2
02:23:06
They own this little department store called, the called the Tiger Store in, Haysville, North Carolina. And, and they have dug up, like, Spanish armor under the ground and Spanish swords and all kinds of crazy stuff. And I’ve gone hiking out there and, oh, we got we look this up. Jamie, can we please look up, Judah Kula Rock?
Speaker: 2
02:23:25
It’s one of the only megaliths in North America. And it’s this, gigantic megalithic stone that has the same sort of art style as all the Native American stuff that we’ve seen. And it’s some kind of primordial map of Western North Carolina. It’s it’s massive, dude. You couldn’t fit it in this room. It’s called Judaculla.
Speaker: 2
02:23:43
If you just try to spell it in some way, you might find it. There you go. And there’s an old photo of of, an archaeologist laying behind it. There you go. To the top left. That one or maybe the one that’s colorized there. That that one’s really, really pretty. Sai nobody knows what this is.
Speaker: 2
02:23:58
And the Native Americans who were asked, some of the stories about the early Native Americans who were asked how this got here, who moved it there, their stories are that giants placed this and that giants used to live in this land and that they created these stones. And I have gone around ai I was a little bit younger, I would go through the rainforest and ai wandering up these hillsides and you’d find these huge stones laying there with all of these images carved into them.
Speaker: 2
02:24:24
And, of course, you know, there’s no funding that’s out there. There’s not even a there’s not even a police department out there. So it’s, it’s it nothing no research is being done out there. But it’s a fascinating place as old as time itself. And all of these people are ram, like, a chapter before contact period.
Speaker: 1
02:24:45
Woah.
Speaker: 2
02:24:45
Yeah. It’s fascinating, man. It’s just a it’s a very ancient, mysterious, mystical place. It’s it’s one of those places that kinda gives me the feeling that Peru gives me when I’m out there, that I’m in a very, very, very old place. And and, of course, you know, the Appalachian Mountains are the oldest mountain range in the world.
Speaker: 1
02:25:01
Is there any theory as to the age of that?
Speaker: 2
02:25:05
Well, I think when you go there, they attribute it to, they attribute it to a culture that lived in the area between 100 AD and 1,000 AD. But, you know, that’s just totally guesswork. Wow. Judaculla and the Cherokee Indians. Yeah. Now, the, you know, the the hard part about the hard part about studying some stuff with Native Americans in The US is that there’s a lot of, like, you know, modern Native Meh, they’re very prideful about their culture and and, you know, a little bit of mythology gets gets mixed in.
Speaker: 2
02:25:39
Like, when you go when I go visit the, I forget what it what exactly it’s called. But there’s a there’s a Native Meh, village that still exists in this area of the country. And it’s, like, operated, and it’s kind of a tour place where they take people through what the cities would have looked like or what the the towns would have looked like in the middle of the rainforest.
Speaker: 2
02:25:57
But the hard part is when I ai to the representatives there, which are Native American, you know, Cherokee people, they’ll tell me, oh, yeah. You know, the ancient people that were here, they used to be six foot five. They were very tall people or whatever. And there’s no evidence behind that at all.
Speaker: 2
02:26:12
And so it’s hard to ai okay. We have Cherokee bodies. So are these are these oral memories that are being passed down through time that come down to the Cherokee? And, you know, as a as ai a, you know, a modern day American anthropologist, do I brush off what they say and just be like, well, you know, they’re they’re they’re carrying on these myths about their people.
Speaker: 2
02:26:33
They wanna build it up. Or arya they really holding on to something that’s true? Because, man, I would love to talk to Graham about this. Okay. Sai, you know, one of the biggest things that refutes I know it sounds like I’m bouncing all over the place, but one of the biggest things I’m falling.
Speaker: 2
02:26:46
That that that they ai to use to refute, the sphinx’s age, you know, about the sphinx that could date back to the time of of Leo, but October ago or ten thousand five hundred BC, ten thousand five hundred BC, is they say, well, there’s no evidence that you could carry down the knowledge of constellations that far.
Speaker: 2
02:27:04
You’ve heard this before. Right? Like, how do we know that people in October even ai the constellation of Leo and and how is that knowledge carried down? Dude, there is evidence of this. Okay. The squared ai. Have you seen this motif anywhere? It’s, we can we can look it up, Greek meander pattern.
Speaker: 2
02:27:23
But you’ll also see it in you’ll see it in the American Southwest. You’ll see it out in the Mississippian cultures. You’ll see it in Mexico. You’ll see it in South America, Peru. You’ll see it in Greece. You’ll see it in Egypt, Rome. This Yeah. Yeah. This pattern.
Speaker: 2
02:27:37
So, you know, a lot of times this, they say that this is ai, well, when people use the term Swastika, the Swastika is just two meandering patterns or squared spirals that are laid on top of each other. That’s that’s what it is. Wow. Yeah. So it’s a squared ai.
Speaker: 2
02:27:53
But when you take two of those and lay them on top of each other, it becomes a swastika. And you and I recognize where these meanders connect because of a certain recent culture that perverted this symbol and and turned it into something evil. But this is an ancient symbol, and it’s found all over the world. And, it even dates back to Ukraine. You may be able to find this.
Speaker: 2
02:28:14
There’s an ivory, bone handle in Ukraine from ai 11,000 years ago that has the squared spiral that that’s on it. So this is 11,000 years old found on every continent on the planet. Oh, yeah. So it’s even found in pottery. You can see it in pottery in ancient China, ancient Japan. It’s in Cambodia. It’s all across the ancient world.
Speaker: 2
02:28:37
And I was asking, oh ai, I know one that we could look up. Could you look up the Temple Of Mitla in Mexico? Sai Temple Of Mitla. And if we look there, you’ll see it all up and down. Now Temple Of Mitla is a, shamanic temple.
Speaker: 2
02:28:51
It’s like a They think it was like a like a meh site that people would go to. It was built to last for all of eternity. And of all the megaliths in all of Mesoamerica or ancient Mexico and Central America, this site uses the largest stones. So each one of these lentils that you see, this is like one solid piece of volcanic saloni. Very very hard stones. Okay. So you can see the squared spiral.
Speaker: 2
02:29:12
Right? Mhmm. Can you see the step pattern that leads up to them? And you can probably find another photo where you see the step pattern leading up to the spiral. So it’s like it’s like you’re walking up steps into a spiral and it’s this loop that continues on forever. I have a ton of these photos on my phone.
Speaker: 2
02:29:27
They’re found all over Peru. Here we go. Now this is not quite exactly it. But okay. So what this what this really is, this step pattern in this motif of this spiral here is it’s the big dipper in the night sky.
Speaker: 2
02:29:45
You can go look at the big dipper and the Big Dipper changes over the course of the year. So if you look at it as though it’s not a Big Dipper and you look at it as though it’s a staircase to a spiral, that’s exactly what ancient people are seeing the Big Dipper as, and the Big Dipper is spinning in the night sky throughout the year.
Speaker: 2
02:30:03
So this ancient symbol is them documenting a constellation ram for over eleven thousand years, human beings have been documenting a constellation. So if you’re looking for the proof as to whether or not people eleven thousand years ago were recognizing a lion in the night sky, boom, there you go.
Speaker: 2
02:30:20
This is 11,000 years old. Yeah. Okay. So look in here. So it’s a step up to a ai, a step up to a spiral.
Speaker: 2
02:30:27
And, dude, it’s the Big Dipper. Just look at the Big Dipper in the future as though it’s this constellation. It’s the same thing.
Speaker: 1
02:30:32
Is this a theory that it’s the Big Dipper? Is this being corroborated?
Speaker: 2
02:30:35
This is my theory.
Speaker: 1
02:30:36
Your theory.
Speaker: 2
02:30:36
This is my theory and, like, something I’ve been studying for a long time. But there there are other archaeologists who, they’re kinda have a passive interest in this, and they have said, maybe it’s the Big Dipper or something. But these aren’t these then people, if I were to go to them and be like, okay. Well, you know, this ivory bone handle in Ukraine goes back 11,000 years.
Speaker: 2
02:30:55
So it’s proof they’d be like, okay. Stop. You know what I mean? So this is my theory that I have been studying for a long time. And everywhere I go in The Americas, I find that I find that spiral pattern everywhere. And I always ask people, what does this mean?
Speaker: 2
02:31:08
When I’m in the Mediterranean, I’ll ask people, what does this mean? I’m gonna go to I’m gonna go to Greece at the end of the year and I’m gonna ask because it’s all over Greek temples, you know. And, and all I ever get from Greek archaeologist is that it’s a river. Bullshit. It’s not a river.
Speaker: 2
02:31:23
And then in Latin America, I get a bit better of an explanation. And and maybe this is maybe this is really it. They think that it’s like the they think that it’s like the the step the the steps through life and the and the rejuvenation of life. Right? Sai it’s like it’s like the Big Dipper has some kind of esoteric meaning with it.
Speaker: 2
02:31:42
But I I have been thinking about this and I think that this the reason that throughout all these ancient cultures, you see this meander pattern in so many different orientations as it’s documenting it’s documenting the flipping of the Big Dipper through the night sky throughout the day.
Speaker: 2
02:31:57
And, and that’s that’s vatsal, you know, I’m trying to explain something that’s 11,000 years old.
Speaker: 1
02:32:01
What is the earliest evidence of the understanding of the procession of the equinoxes?
Speaker: 0
02:32:07
Oh, god. I don’t know. I don’t know.
Speaker: 2
02:32:09
That’s that’s getting, like, beyond my level of of knowledge with archaeoastronomy. Sana people Ram
Speaker: 1
02:32:17
theorized that Yeah. Yeah. Egyptians were aware of it.
Speaker: 2
02:32:19
I mean, I don’t doubt that they’re
Speaker: 1
02:32:21
that they were aware
Speaker: 0
02:32:22
of it.
Speaker: 1
02:32:23
Yeah. Bovall, I think, believed that. Or Ai know for sure John Anthony West believed that.
Speaker: 0
02:32:27
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:32:27
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:32:28
Yeah. I I don’t know, man. I mean, the procession of the equinoxes, it takes at least, what, twelve to twenty four. It’s either twelve or it’s twenty four thousand years to be able to Twenty
Speaker: 1
02:32:37
four thousand years. The full cycle.
Speaker: 2
02:32:40
If if we wanted to investigate an ancient culture that’s possible of being able to document this, it’d be worth looking into if the Maya were aware.
Speaker: 1
02:32:50
Let’s explain to people what it means. So what it means is that the earth as it spins, it doesn’t spin perfectly. Like, there’s a pin at the top and the pin at the bottom, and it spins like a globe. It spins in a wobble, and that wobbles a twenty four thousand year cycle. The earliest understanding of the procession in the equinox is typically credited to Greek astronomer how do you say his name? Hipparchus?
Speaker: 2
02:33:12
Yeah. Hipparchus.
Speaker: 1
02:33:12
Hipparchus in the second century BCE, around January.
Speaker: 2
02:33:17
I bet you he did it in Alexandria too.
Speaker: 1
02:33:19
Hipparchus noticed the position of the equinoxes, the points where the celestial equator intersects with the elliptic, were shifting westward over time relative to the fixed stars. He calculated this slow movement known as precession by comparing his own observations of star positions with earlier Babylonian and Greek records
Speaker: 0
02:33:37
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:33:37
Particularly those of Tymarchus and Aristillus. Mhmm. Aristillus. From the third century BCE, Hipparchus estimated the rate of procession to be about one degree every one hundred years, which is remarkably close to the modern value, approximately one degree every seventy one point six years.
Speaker: 1
02:33:56
There’s no definitive evidence of earlier cultures fully understanding the procession as a systematic astronomical phenomenon, but some scholars speculate the ancient civilizations ai the Babylonians, Egyptians, or Indians might have noticed relating patterns and star positions over long periods.
Speaker: 2
02:34:15
Yeah. Well, and then check this out. Hipparchus’ discovery detailed in his lost work, but referenced by Ptolemy, the pharaoh a pharaoh over Alexandria, in the Almagest, second century CE. So this is happening in the city of Alexandria. This all this is being studied in Alexandria’s ai. Marks the earliest confirmed understanding of procession in scientific sense.
Speaker: 2
02:34:35
Dude, that was lost in in in the burning of Alexandria’s library. Wow. Yeah. How crazy is that?
Speaker: 1
02:34:41
It’s all crazy. It’s it’s so fascinating because it’s it’s it it makes sense that that would be something that everyone would be studying because it’s the most spectacular thing you could ever see. Yeah. Why would you just say, oh, it’s just stars. You of course, you
Speaker: 2
02:34:56
would I would it’s so silly.
Speaker: 1
02:34:57
Of course.
Speaker: 0
02:34:57
Mhmm. You
Speaker: 1
02:34:58
would it’s they’re so majestic. You would you would have to be transfixed.
Speaker: 2
02:35:03
You know you know something interesting that I was just reminded of is this meandering pattern. It continues in the ancient Mediterranean world. So Greece, Mesopotamia, and Egypt until Alexandria’s library is burned and stops after that. You see it on the, you see it on the, monument of Augustus, which is dates to about nine BC, but that’s for his death.
Speaker: 2
02:35:28
But Augustus would have seen Alexandria. He would have been familiar with these motifs. I believe after that in Rome, we don’t see this motif anymore, the squared spiral. In, Mesoamerica, in Meh, in Central America, this squared spiral motif stops, with the burning of the Maya codices from Diego de Landa in, like, 1574.
Speaker: 2
02:35:50
He gathered all of the writing in the Maya world together in the city of what is modern day, Merida, and he burned it all up. And it was it was called multiple pyres. So imagine, let’s sana pyre is at least from the floor to the ceiling stacked with codexes, like, like have you ever seen the sticky notes that are connected on each side?
Speaker: 2
02:36:07
That’s a that’s how the Maya books looked, and he burned all that history. Today, we only have three or four that exist, and one of them is, like, controversial as to whether or not it’s a forgery. So he destroyed all of the written history of the Mesoamerican world in, like, one fell swoop.
Speaker: 2
02:36:23
And to give you an idea of just how much it was, when the Spaniards arrived in the Aztec world sai the Aztec were standing on the were standing on the shoulders of giants being the Maya and all the other cultures. The Aztecs were producing 250,000 pieces of paper a year. It’s something like that.
Speaker: 2
02:36:43
It’s it’s sai it’s an incredible amount of written knowledge and all of that knowledge is burned and gone. And so and so, you know, it just just again, when archaeologists stand behind their opinion so strongly as to chastise other people for speculating about, oh, well, you know, this could be this.
Speaker: 2
02:37:00
It’s like it’s so silly because we’re we’re disconnected from the ancient world by a considerable margin. I mean, none of us really understand what’s going on. I was having a conversation with, doctor Barnhart. We were at the, Museum of Anthropology in Mexico, and we’re looking at all these Maya gods up on this mural.
Speaker: 2
02:37:17
And everything in Mesoamerica, whether it’s the Maya, the Olmecs, the Aztecs, Teotihuacanos, Zapotecs, whatever, it’s all very fierce and dark and, scary, kind of scary to us. And we’re looking up at it, and he’s ai he’s like, you know, I’ve always wondered, like, where’s the love in their religion?
Speaker: 2
02:37:33
Like, you know, where where are all the doves that you see, like, in Christian churches and stuff? And he was like he’s like, but, you know, in reality, if we could speak to them, we would probably be so embarrassed and shocked at how wrong our ideas are about who these people were.
Speaker: 2
02:37:47
And, you know, his his attitude and his approach to the ancient world, I just love it. Because, you know, he just presents, like, the evidence that’s available, gives his idea of what he thinks the evidence means, while also saying, you know, this is just this is just my idea from this.
Speaker: 2
02:38:03
We could be completely wrong, and we probably are completely wrong. You know, think about, like, if you died and, five thousand years from now, people started going through your belongings, what would they think of you? It probably wouldn’t be a very good representation of you,
Speaker: 1
02:38:15
you know. Depends on who’s writing the story. Right? If CNN wrote it, it’d be terrible. You know?
Speaker: 2
02:38:20
It’d be pretty bad.
Speaker: 1
02:38:21
It it’s it’s really dependent upon who, again, is the gatekeeper of information. Yeah. If you had a time machine and you can go and observe undiscovered any point in history, like, you could put put you in some time bubble where you could just, like, be in this invisible bubble where you could view it, where you’re not interacting, you’re not you just watch Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:38:43
What time period and where. Oh, god.
Speaker: 2
02:38:50
I’m not gonna say Egypt. I feel like Egypt is such a, like, everyone says Egypt.
Speaker: 0
02:38:54
I would
Speaker: 1
02:38:54
say Egypt.
Speaker: 2
02:38:55
I know. I know. If I if I if Egypt wasn’t an option,
Speaker: 1
02:38:59
But why would you want that to not be an option?
Speaker: 0
02:39:01
If I
Speaker: 1
02:39:02
gave you a legit choice, if it was a real thing, if there was real technology, if they had developed some sort of a time warp technology that allowed you to, in this controlled sphere, exist for a particular amount of ai, that you have three days in this arya, you you bring food and water, and you just No
Speaker: 2
02:39:21
one can hurt me. No one can scout you.
Speaker: 1
02:39:23
No one can see you. Yeah. You exist in a time warp Okay. Inside there, but you could observe all of it.
Speaker: 2
02:39:27
It’s kind of Egypt. Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean
Speaker: 1
02:39:31
You would have to figure out what ai. Because if you got there and they
Speaker: 2
02:39:33
had already built it, you’re ai, shit. Goddamn it.
Speaker: 1
02:39:35
Yeah. Ai, maybe, like, you say, let me go 10,000 BC. And you go there and it’s still already there.
Speaker: 0
02:39:40
Like, fuck. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Fuck.
Speaker: 2
02:39:42
You go back 20,000 BC.
Speaker: 1
02:39:43
Yeah. What? You can only do it once. Like, fuck. But if you go back 30,000 BC, maybe there’s nothing. Like
Speaker: 2
02:39:50
meh, Egypt is a creme de la creme, man. Yeah. It’s it’s the it’s the most monumental, beautiful, like you know, when you try to imagine what it would have looked ai. You know, if you’ve seen, visual recreations of the Giza Plateau, you know, the the Valley Temple must have been absolutely stunning. Okay.
Speaker: 2
02:40:08
So one day, when you go to Egypt, hopefully, you go this year, when you go to the Valley Temple, that’s the that ram me, it’s the best thing in all of Egypt. I think it’s I think it’s more stunning what it must have looked like than even the pyramids themselves. The blocks are absolutely ai.
Speaker: 2
02:40:25
Like, one block is bigger than this whole wall. And brought from 500 miles south in in Aswan, these are the ones with the cyclopean strangely angled stones like you see in Peru. And when you walk in, most people ignore it. But, the vatsal floor is a is a calcite white crystal floor.
Speaker: 2
02:40:44
And so when imagine when it was polished and when it was finished off, it must have been gleaming. And at some point in time, there were these, diorite, coffer statues. Maybe you’ve seen them before. They’re ai impossibly well made out of the hardest stone in Egypt, the hardest stone in in Egypt. And it’s this is a black diorite gleaming polished statues.
Speaker: 2
02:41:05
And the lintels that go above would have allowed when the sun, you know, reaches it’s like zenith in the sky in the day in the middle of the day, it would have shot through these holes in the ceiling. And so it would have illuminated the white floor, and you would have had the solid black, statues that are that are shining in the in the sun’s light.
Speaker: 2
02:41:21
And so you’re walking in, and it’s ai glowing inside of the temple. And and when you walk outside the front door of the temple, there’s a dock in it. And you can see the dock, like, slopes into the ground, so the the water isn’t there anymore. The Nile is much further to the east now.
Speaker: 2
02:41:36
But it would’ve the but the Nile, came straight up to the front step of the of the Valley Temple. So you so imagine you’re, like, you’re going you know, you have someone pushing your little boat along on a pike in, you know, in Egypt, and you’re, you know, you’re taking in, like, you know, you’re taking in the nature around you and, and, like, the seabirds that are flying over you and the palm trees that are everywhere.
Speaker: 2
02:41:58
And, like, imagine the sound of the water as you’re coming up to the temple. And it’s this huge temple. It’s the it’s the largest building on the planet at the time, you know, probably, other other than the pyramids themselves. But and then you step into it and it’s it is the most sacred, most impressive thing that exists on the earth at that ai.
Speaker: 2
02:42:20
No matter if it was made in twenty five hundred BC or if it was made in October, it’s the most impressive building that exists in the world at that time. And what exactly was going on in these buildings? I don’t know. This is this is kind of another, you know, hot take of mine is, man, I don’t believe that, you know, when you sell these pantheons of of these gods in the ancient world, I do not believe that ancient people are making all this shit up and building all these temples for these gods that never existed just to control the masses, whatever.
Speaker: 2
02:42:49
I mean, it’s extensive amount of work all across the entire world. You know, the the Maya are building temples for these gods, these beings that they’re that they’re meeting. The Temple Of Luxor that you’ll that you’ll go to see, you know, the the story goes that Amenhotep built this last chamber, which is made out of these huge, Amenhotep the third builds this last chamber, Huge megalithic granite blocks to meet the god, Amun Ra.
Speaker: 2
02:43:14
And I’m standing there inside the the chamber looking around. He’s the only person supposedly that’s allowed in. That’s a story that we know how true that is. I don’t know. But, you know, and I’m just thinking, man, either is it more likely that all this is made up, or is it more likely that they went to the extent to do all this because it was all real?
Speaker: 2
02:43:31
And they’re really interacting with these beings. And the most the the most realistic way I can think of is by, is by being involved in, like, shamanic practices and hallucinogens and, like, you know, interacting with things that do not exist in our three d plane. And, and that adds to the allure of, like, when I’m standing in the Valley Temple, I’m like, what the hell is actually going on in here at this time?
Speaker: 2
02:43:55
So after going through all that, I had to say Egypt.
Speaker: 1
02:44:00
You have to.
Speaker: 2
02:44:01
Yeah. Yeah. As cliche as it might be. My my second one would be, like, if I could be like, okay, take me to the height of Amazonian culture. Just let me see
Speaker: 1
02:44:09
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:44:09
Just how amazing it is. Because, you know, it really seems like stone architecture comes out of the Amazon. Now where Paul lives, it’s all clay on the ground. But when you get halfway through the Amazon, you start reaching ai granite and limestone bedrock. And that’s on the eastern side. So you’re in like Guyana, French Guyana, Brazil.
Speaker: 2
02:44:28
And it’s treacherous places to go through in the in the middle of the Amazon. But I think that that’s where cities in the Amazon are gonna be found one day. And it was towards the end of Orianna’s expedition, so that’s about where he would have been. And meh, I bet I bet you there’s stuff out there that would just amaze us.
Speaker: 2
02:44:45
I think it I think the Amazon is the bryden, just me personally, I think the Amazon is the origin of American or, you know, pre Columbian American, the height of their civilization. I think it’s the origin of their religion and shamanic practices. I think it’s spread out all the way up to Mexico.
Speaker: 2
02:45:02
And, you know, later on, the ancient Americans have a corn god, which they call the maize god. But I think before that, they had this were jaguar religion where people are taking hallucinogens and psychedelics. And so I I think that all the evidence points towards that the origin of civilization in The Americas begins in the Amazon and spreads out from there.
Speaker: 2
02:45:23
And I would love if a time machine could pull back that canopy
Speaker: 0
02:45:27
Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
02:45:27
And show me what the actual height of that was like.
Speaker: 1
02:45:30
It’s just so interesting. It never stops being interesting. And it’s one of those things, it’s a mystery that will never truly be totally solved because it’s not possible to go back in time. So we’re always going to have this thing in our ai, like, I wonder. And it’s such a a fascinating inclination to sit and just wonder about the past.
Speaker: 1
02:45:49
And to look where we are now and how ridiculous life today is, this was undeniable. Like, humans are fools to particularly today. Yeah. For sure. And I think one of the reasons why we’re fools is we’re denied these experiences that these people probably had. Yeah. We’ve outlawed them. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:46:04
Just like they did in ancient Greece, just like they did, I’m sure, throughout history and all these different cultures.
Speaker: 2
02:46:11
You know, have you ever heard the have you ever heard the the natives in Papua New Guinea and and the songs that they sing that, like, emanate through the the jungle? Have you ever heard this before? No. When I when I study you know, I don’t study I only study native people in in The Americas.
Speaker: 2
02:46:26
Ai got my hands full with that. I can’t really start studying, you know, like, you know, I’m fascinated by the people who live on Sentinel Island. Mhmm. And akin to that are the people the semi contacted people of Papua New Guinea. And when you listen to the songs that they sing, it reminds me so much of what I heard yesterday and what I’ve known, but when Percy Fawcett says he he hears the songs they sing, and it reminds him, like, oh, this is this is an advanced culture.
Speaker: 2
02:46:49
This is something that’s being handed down through time. It’s beautiful. It’s timeless. And when you hear the the the sound of the Papua New Guinea people singing and the way they harmonize with each other, these people are so connected to the Earth that it’s the Earth singing to you through them.
Speaker: 2
02:47:06
Does that make sense?
Speaker: 1
02:47:07
Woah. Can we hear that?
Speaker: 2
02:47:08
Yeah. This may not be the one I’m talking about. It’s beautiful, though. There’s one of, there’s one of a man. He’s ai next to the camera, and he’s singing. And you have all these people around him, and it’s just, like, stunningly beautiful.
Speaker: 0
02:47:31
Is that
Speaker: 2
02:47:31
Here it is. Here it is.
Speaker: 0
02:47:35
Ai got some extra love on it. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:48:12
I think it’s just on loop. Ten hours. So ten hour video.
Speaker: 2
02:48:16
Hearing that makes me, like, emotional hearing it because
Speaker: 1
02:48:18
five grams and you listen to that. It’s beautiful.
Speaker: 0
02:48:20
You know? It’s Oh
Speaker: 2
02:48:21
my god. It’s beautiful. And you you look in you look in his eyes Yeah. And it’s like it’s he has very innocent eyes. Yeah. You know? It’s it’s it is the it’s the it’s the human embodiment of the planet itself is is that guy that you’re looking at and what you’re hearing.
Speaker: 1
02:48:36
And what’s really fascinated by human cultures is the most satisfied, least anxious people are subsistence livers.
Speaker: 0
02:48:43
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:48:44
People that live off the land.
Speaker: 2
02:48:45
It’s so true.
Speaker: 0
02:48:46
Have you
Speaker: 1
02:48:46
ever seen the Ai piece, about, this guy named Heinmo, Heinmo’s Arctic Adventure?
Speaker: 0
02:48:54
No.
Speaker: 1
02:48:54
There’s a great bit, a a great video piece from Ai from back in the day, Vice guy to travel, where this journalist goes and lives with this guy who lives in the Arctic. And he’s one of the last people that’s allowed to live off the land, and he’s a very intelligent guy who explains through the course of this, like, this is how people are supposed to be living.
Speaker: 0
02:49:17
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:49:17
And he’s sana essentially just hunting caribou and fishing, and he lives, like, in peace and harmony. And he he never wants to live in the city. Like, this is a natural way for us.
Speaker: 2
02:49:27
Does does he have a little daughter with him or a little girl? And he, like, cuts up the fish and he hands it to her and they give each other, like, an Eskimo kiss. Have you seen I I I think I don’t believe he’s that. His daughter’s full grown Okay. Okay. At the time.
Speaker: 1
02:49:38
But I’m sure there’s many people living like
Speaker: 0
02:49:40
this. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:49:40
But the point is that Ai think that if you look at modern society, we’re so anxious and weird and depressed and all all these things wrong with us. I think a lot of that is because, a, we’re disconnected from nature, especially if you’re living in a city. I mean, there’s no more insulation from nature than a skyscraper.
Speaker: 0
02:50:00
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
02:50:00
I mean, you’re completely removed from you. You’ve covered the ground concrete. You’re not interacting with nature at all. Like, that’s why everybody goes to Central Park. They’re like a little piece. So give me a little bit of nature. Right? So you’re disconnected from nature, which I think is a vitamin. I I genuinely believe.
Speaker: 1
02:50:14
It’s just like Definitely. The sun gives you vitamin d. I think nature gives you some unmeasured vitamin that we just haven’t figured out yet. And then, we’re removed from these ancient experiences that connected people to the spiritual world.
Speaker: 2
02:50:28
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s so true. I’ve been having these conversations, with my wife recently. You know, like, all of our friends are are sort of, you know, we’re all ai newlyweds. Like, my wife and I are about to approach our two year, and our relationship is is is interesting because it kind of mimics, like like, ancient people where, you know, a man has got to you know, in ancient times, the man would go off at a certain point, periodically.
Speaker: 2
02:50:56
He and all of his he and all the other men of the village or the younger men would go off until they killed a big animal, and they ram it back, and they’d be rewarded by the gratification of the women that they’re there, and then they would play their part in helping to feed everybody.
Speaker: 2
02:51:09
And you have this, like, the the woman, like, admires the man. The man’s helping take care of her. You have this. And then meh men also get their time away to be manly and be masculine and bryden. And and, now, we exist in this world where before I was able to, you know, quit my job and and pursue this full time, I was doing, like, marketing, you know, to to just to make ends meet.
Speaker: 2
02:51:31
And I I’m like existing in this digital world that doesn’t even exist. I produce ads for companies that don’t even have a physical brick and mortar store. It’s like all completely made up. And I come home. I would come home every single day, and I had no, like, male role in my little family.
Speaker: 2
02:51:49
Like, my wife is is in the middle of dental school, and so we’re both going off and coming back and doing the same thing every day. And it’s like this unnatural ai, and you wonder ai, like, people are so unhappy. And now that I’ve been traveling ai a lot, you know, I go off, you know, I go off, I travel, I’m able to, you know, help provide for us.
Speaker: 2
02:52:09
I’m gone. I come back, and our relationship is strong, and it’s intimate and romantic. And she, like, you know, admires that kinda aspect about me. And I’m like like, oh, this is kinda this is kinda how this is a healthy this is actually a healthy thing for our relationship.
Speaker: 2
02:52:23
And it’s just reminding me more and more of how this modern world is so dystopian and so sick and poisonous to our minds. We’re operating in a made up realm. This, you know, it’s just so much of what we do is completely made up and and unnatural. We should be living by a fresh body of water, and you and I should be running off into the forest and killing something with our hands or with a bow and dragging it back and all the women are, yay, you know.
Speaker: 2
02:52:48
That’s what it should that’s what life should be like. But it’s, unfortunately, science fiction.
Speaker: 1
02:52:54
I think you can live in this world and dabble in that world.
Speaker: 2
02:52:58
Yeah. For sure.
Speaker: 1
02:52:59
That’s what I do. For sure.
Speaker: 2
02:53:00
Yeah. Ai, I I’ve seen that. I mean, you go off on your hunting expeditions.
Speaker: 1
02:53:03
Those are, like, to me, spiritual journeys. It sounds sounds ridiculous. But when I’m in the woods, like, the real woods, when you’re in the mountains in particular, because it’s sai unforgiving and so majestic, every part of me just goes, like, wow. Here we are.
Speaker: 0
02:53:19
Where are
Speaker: 2
02:53:20
you at when you do that?
Speaker: 1
02:53:21
Well, I really love Utah. I really love, like, the the Wasatch Mountains. Sai love that area.
Speaker: 2
02:53:27
I’m scared of the Northwest. My my wife wants to take me to to Montana and go hiking. I’m like, I’m not going hiking out
Speaker: 0
02:53:33
in
Speaker: 2
02:53:33
the Northwest. There’s I don’t belong out there. There’s grizzly bears. I mean, those things there’s nothing you can do, man.
Speaker: 1
02:53:38
Nothing you can do.
Speaker: 2
02:53:39
And I I’m okay on the East Coast where it’s just black bears. They’re like, you know, rabbits. But, dude, a grizzly bear?
Speaker: 1
02:53:45
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:53:46
Have you seen the video of the guy who’s up on top of this granite facing? And he goes he’s, like, filming, and he goes he goes, there’s a young grizzly bear down at the river below meh, and he’s up on this granite face. And, and he was ai he’s like, I’m gonna scare him off. And he goes, hey, bear. Hey, bear.
Speaker: 2
02:53:58
And the bear goes and charges directly to him and knocks down all the little tyler. And it comes up to the granite face, and it can’t reach him. But I’m like Yeah. Dude, I would never want to go up there.
Speaker: 1
02:54:09
I I Yeah. I’m Your food.
Speaker: 2
02:54:11
Your food.
Speaker: 1
02:54:11
Yeah. You’re a part of the chain and not the good part.
Speaker: 2
02:54:14
No.
Speaker: 1
02:54:14
You’re not you’re not the hunter with the deer. No. There’s an 800 pound super predator that can run 40 miles an hour. And he’s headed right towards you.
Speaker: 0
02:54:23
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:54:23
And if you’re a good shot with a high powered gun, you might be able to kill it, but you’ll be mauled to death Yeah. By the time it wanders off into the forest
Speaker: 0
02:54:30
and dies. You
Speaker: 1
02:54:30
might be able to kill it. I meh, you really, you need, like, a large caliber rifle and shoot it in the head. Yeah. You know? And a pistol, that’s the other thing. If you have a nine millimeter pistol and you shoot a grizzly bear in the head, it’s very likely it’s gonna bounce off of a skull Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
02:54:45
Which is so scary. Oh, it’s terrifying. Could you imagine the, could you imagine people trying to navigate into ram migrate into the Americas and they have to deal with the short faced bear and polar bears?
Speaker: 1
02:54:56
Right. The short faced bear, which makes a grizzly bear look like a poodle.
Speaker: 2
02:55:00
It it’s it’s utterly insane, man. People lived in a gnarly place Gnarly. In The US. Like, we had we had American lions that than the African lions. Exactly. We had elephants. We had woolly mammoths. We had camels here. We had Yeah. Gigantic horses. We had huge dire wolves. We had Giant sloths.
Speaker: 2
02:55:19
Giants giant oh, there’s a giant sloth caves in, Nantahala. And, you can see them, and they’re, like, carved out. And it’s cool because there’s multiple layers of history there. So you have this you have this megafauna ice age history of these huge giant sloth caves carved out in, you know, these prehistoric mountainsides.
Speaker: 1
02:55:36
Wow.
Speaker: 2
02:55:37
But the Cherokee used those caves to hide in, to escape the Trail Of Tears. Wow. Yeah. That’s fascinating stuff up there, man. So you have, like, levels of history just in that one area of the country. If you go out there, you’ll feel like you’re in a primordial place that’s, you know, kind of spiritual.
Speaker: 1
02:55:54
I’m down. Yeah. I’ll check it out.
Speaker: 0
02:55:55
Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:55:56
Yeah. You definitely have to.
Speaker: 1
02:55:57
Listen. Thank you so much for being here. I really, really enjoyed this conversation, and I think we could do a bunch more. So let’s do it again sometime.
Speaker: 0
02:56:03
Ai feel
Speaker: 2
02:56:03
like I could’ve talked to you for ten more hours.
Speaker: 0
02:56:05
I
Speaker: 1
02:56:05
feel like we could too. Yeah. So, tell everybody if they wanna get into more of your work, where where should they go?
Speaker: 2
02:56:11
Yeah. So, everything I do is just under my name, Luke Caverns. You know, Caverns was, just a name that, like, my wife and I came up with to use as, like, a nomer because of ai. But my my real last name is Reagan. And, you know, I like I shared, I have this family history and loosely connected to the presidential family.
Speaker: 2
02:56:29
That’s ai a different branch of our family Oh, wow. From Tennessee. Yeah. And, and so I kinda wanna do it for privacy, but, like, that’s impossible. So Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:56:37
I just Sai just run with it. And, but, yeah, Luke Caverns, you can find you can find everything I do under that. And, you know, I for a long time, I thought maybe I’d specialize in one arya. But, man, I’m interested in in in the ancient history of of the entire world. And and, I’m just always gonna embrace that and explore the explore the ancient world on foot. And, yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:57:00
I’m glad you’re out there, man. Really appreciate it.
Speaker: 2
02:57:02
Yeah, man.
Speaker: 0
02:57:02
I ai it.
Speaker: 1
02:57:03
Thank you for being here. It was really fun.
Speaker: 0
02:57:04
Really fun. Thank you. Alright. Bye, everybody ai.
