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#2234 – Marc Andreessen Podcast Episode Description
Marc Andreessen is an entrepreneur, investor, and software engineer. He is co-creator of the world’s first widely used internet browser, Mosaic, cofounder and general partner at the venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz, and cohost of “The Ben & Marc Show” podcast.
www.a16z.com
https://pmarca.substack.com
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#2234 – Marc Andreessen Podcast Episode Summary
In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, Joe Rogan and his guest, Mark, delve into a variety of topics, focusing on communication, productivity, and societal shifts. Mark discusses the importance of long-form communication, emphasizing that providing context is crucial to avoid misunderstandings. He shares his personal experience of being provocative and how his partners have encouraged him to express his thoughts through essays and podcasts rather than short posts.
A significant portion of the conversation revolves around Elon Musk’s management style, particularly his approach at XAI, where he conducts intensive, short meetings to assess progress. This method is contrasted with the slower pace often seen in Silicon Valley and government operations, highlighting a need for efficiency and accountability.
The discussion also touches on the evolving nature of political campaigns, suggesting a shift towards internet-native strategies that could bypass traditional media and fundraising methods. This reflects a broader theme of adapting to new communication landscapes.
Mark and Joe also explore societal changes, particularly in gender dynamics, referencing the “lean in” philosophy that encourages women to be more assertive in their careers. They discuss the positive impact of the podcast on listeners’ health and fitness, with Joe expressing satisfaction in inspiring people to lead healthier lives.
Overall, the episode underscores the importance of clear communication, the potential for rapid change in various sectors, and the positive influence of media on personal development. The recurring theme is the need for adaptability and proactive engagement in both personal and professional spheres.
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#2234 – Marc Andreessen Podcast Episode Transcript (Unedited)
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00:01
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Showing my day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Alright. Hello, Mark.
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00:13
Hello. Good to see you.
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00:14
Thanks for having me back. My pleasure. Good to
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00:17
see you. Why the world’s still, functional?
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00:19
It’s amazing.
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00:19
Yeah. Amazing. We we wanted to talk you wanted to talk about the post election sort of a wrap up
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00:25
Yeah.
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00:26
And sort of where we stand. Are you happy? Very happy.
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00:29
That was
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00:30
a weird one.
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00:30
Morning in America.
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00:32
That was, one of the first times ever I felt hopeful after an election. Like, you should have seen the green room at the comedy club. Everybody was like, yes.
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00:38
Yes. Hoo. So my theory is the timeline like in a science fiction movie, the timeline has split twice in the last in the last, like, 9 months.
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00:47
What was the first split?
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00:48
There was when Trump got shot.
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00:49
Oh, yeah. And there was
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00:51
that moment where the world was gonna head in 2 totally different directions.
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00:54
Right. If he got hit Yeah. Yeah.
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00:56
And we saw the most conspicuous display of physical bravery I’ve ever seen.
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01:00
Right.
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01:01
Absolutely. Moment. Exactly. And it could have gone, you know, horrifically badly for the entire world after that. So that was timeline split number 1. So that other timeline’s out there somewhere.
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01:10
Yeah. And I
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01:10
don’t wanna visit it.
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01:11
Boy, imagine being stuck there. What kind of horrible karma? No. I mean, that’s a totalitarian dystopian nightmare.
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01:18
That’s the bad place. Yeah. And then, time line split again on election day.
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01:23
I know you’re a you fancy a good conspiracy theory. Yes. And, that that gentleman being able to pull off what he did Mhmm. And, you know, the way it happened, the way it all went down is it’s a Lee Harvey Oswald 2 point o.
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01:38
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
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01:39
Clearly. Yeah.
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01:40
The shooter and
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01:41
Yeah.
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01:41
That we still don’t know anything.
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01:43
There’s no call for disclosure. Yeah. There’s no call for a press conference. There’s no toxicology report. The toxicology report had to have been done. Yeah. Wouldn’t you wanna know, like, what kind of stuff this kid is on that made him want to do that or if anything?
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01:59
Yeah. So my theory is it’s almost as if the people want us to think it’s a conspiracy. Like, it it’s almost like the whole thing is almost orchestrated. Like, it’s just it’s so strange. It’s just like the rapid cremation. Like, the the whole thing was just completely bizarre. And then you’re exactly right. You’re like, no hearings.
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02:15
No no nothing. Now having said that, I expect that this will change. Right? So
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02:19
Do you
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02:19
think they’re gonna do a dive into what happened?
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02:21
I mean, I would. I I don’t know if they will, but I, you know, I certainly would if I was
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02:25
in a position to do that. I wonder what they can actually find. I mean, I don’t know if they wanted it to be a conspiracy that people talked about or if that’s simply the best way to pull it off.
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02:35
Yeah. Or it’s just yeah. Or it’s just, you know, as we saw, I think, in the hearing afterwards, maybe just a systemic collapse of confidence.
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02:41
There’s also a confidence in the fact that the the news timeline today is so rapid. Mhmm. The when things are relevant and people are paying attention to them is you have a couple of days Yeah. Even with an assassination attempt on a former president
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02:57
Yeah.
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02:57
Where where where people were murdered
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02:59
Yeah.
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02:59
And there’s it’s in and out.
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03:01
Yeah. That’s right. I think it’s exactly I think the news cycle now is like a 2 to 3 day social media firestorm, and we just cycle from 1 to the next. Yeah. And we have the memory of Goldfish and right. They you know, things right. Things that would have been error defining just come and go with an astonishing speed, and shock.
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03:16
By the way, I I should say, I don’t think there was a I I I doubt there was a conspiracy. I think anything’s possible. I think we just if we have a confidence collapse, and I think we saw that on display when the when the director at the time, you know, testified.
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03:26
Well, there’s all the elements that could have been a conspiracy.
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03:29
It it
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03:29
could have, but this is kind of the thing, which is just like it also could have been Right. Systemic confidence collapse, and then it’s like, okay. Would it be better off for the institute you know, if it looks like a conspiracy? Right? Like, you know, which world okay. Two timelines.
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03:40
Which world would you would you rather live in? The one with the conspiracies or the one with just, like, incompetence everywhere?
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03:45
Well, I think you have both simultaneously. Right. I don’t think it’s binary. Right. I I think there’s incompetence everywhere and conspiracies are legitimate. They’re real. Yeah. And that one seems like conspiracy. The the fact that his his house was professionally scrubbed, there’s no social media record of this kid online. There’s no nothing.
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04:03
He’s the only kid of his generation who’s that fired up about politics to have no online footprint. Like, it just doesn’t make any sense.
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04:09
So a registered Republican. Like, the whole thing is, like Yeah. So weird. And he was, like, a
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04:13
bad shooter, and then he became a great shooter.
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04:15
And
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Well, he definitely trained. Yeah. Right. Like, you could train someone to become a good shooter. Like, this is all you have
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04:19
to
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do. Don’t move and do that. Right. Get all your mechanics in place. Understand technique and positioning, breathing. It’s not, like, the most complicated thing from a prone position.
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04:30
Right.
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04:30
But the fact that he chose to use iron sights, I thought, was weird too. Yeah. There’s a lot of weirdness to it. Yeah. You know, from a 140 yards with a scope, that is an easy shot. Yeah.
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04:41
Well, then he could just, like, wander up.
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04:43
That’s the different timeline. The different timeline is he has a scope. Yeah. And that’s it.
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04:46
Alright. Right.
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04:47
That would have And Trump’s dead. Yep. And then, boy Yep. Boy, do we live in a crazy world then?
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04:53
Yeah. Completely bizarre.
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04:55
I mean, what does the streets look like right now? Yeah. What kind of, like, protests and riots and
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04:59
Yep.
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05:01
He’s like January 6th was nuts. Yes. If they had killed Trump, that would be January 6th on steroids everywhere.
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05:06
Yeah. That’s right. And we would we would experience it. I mean, you know, I I don’t know. When I was a kid, my my high school high school history, he forgot. It’s a bootleg copy of the the Zapruder film. Really? Which I interviewed, you know, was like
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05:16
What a gangster high
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05:17
school history.
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05:18
He was actually pretty focused on the he really loved the Kennedy assassination, so we we spent a lot of time on that. And and, you know, you know, you kinda watch it frame by frame, and you can kinda see what’s happening where there’s lots of questions. But, like, when things like that happen, you know, today, it’s gonna be in high definition 4 k ultra surround sound forever. Yeah. Right? Playing out in real time forever.
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05:35
And so, like, I, yeah, I I very much don’t wanna live in the world where those things happen.
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05:38
Well, we are very fortunate. Yeah. I mean, I like I said, after the election, I was like, wow. Voting works.
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05:44
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I thought that.
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05:47
I thought that. Voting works. That’s nice. Like, they don’t have the system completely rigged. Yeah. And then but they kind of tried to rig it at least with the media. The where the real rigging in the 2020 elections I mean, you couldn’t cast all your conspiracies upon it was in terms of, like, mail in ballots and all this jazz, but the real rigging was the collusion between social media companies and the government to suppress information that would have altered the effect of the election.
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06:17
Yeah. That’s legitimate.
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06:18
Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah. That was like direct interference, and it was, you know, aided and abetted by a lot of former, you know, intelligence officials and Yeah. By and by the current administration. You know, tons of pressure on censorship coming from this, you know, the current administration and all their kind of arms of the sense censorship apparatus.
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06:32
You have your hands in the tech community. You have your fingers and all that jazz. Like, what was the general attitude about all that stuff when it was revealed? How did how did people, you know, how did your peers respond to that?
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06:45
I think anybody in social media, the Internet companies knew it. So I thought it was pretty widely understood. I mean, look, there’s nothing that happened to Twitter and the Twitter files. It wasn’t happening all the all the other companies. Right? So it’s a it’s a consistent pattern.
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06:56
If you got the YouTube files, they would look exactly the same. And, of course, we should get the YouTube files. Sure. And now we probably we probably will now with, you know, this new administration is probably gonna, like, carve all this stuff open. But yeah. No. Look.
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07:05
It was a pattern. And then, look, you know, the companies bear a lot of responsibility, and the people in the companies, you know, made a lot of, I think, bad judgment calls. But the government the, like, the the Biden White House was directly exerting censorship pressure, on American companies to censor American citizens, which I which I think, by the way, is just flatly illegal.
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07:20
Like, I I think it’s actually subject to criminal charges. Like, I think there are people with criminal liability who are involved in this. So there was that. There were also members of congress doing the same thing, which is also illegal. And then there was a lot of funding of outside third party groups that were that were bringing a lot of pressure down on censorship. Yeah.
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07:35
And just an example of that is there’s a unit at Stanford, you know, right next door, you know, to us that, you know, was the Internet censorship unit that was funded by the US government Wow. And exerted tremendous pressure on the companies to censor.
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07:46
And it
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07:46
was and it was very effective at doing so.
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07:48
Does it smell like sulfur when you walk those halls?
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07:50
It is very dark and grim. This whole thing is is is very bad. And so Stanford. Oh, yeah. It’s yeah. Stanford. Stanford, by the way, another unit like that at Harvard. You know, a bunch of universities got pulled into this. A lot of NGOs and nonprofits got pulled into this. And so the Twitter file showed us kind of the basic road map, and then there’s this thing called the weaponization committee that, congressman Jordan is running that has also revealed a lot of this.
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08:13
But I I would imagine the new Trump administration is gonna come in
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08:19
and carve all that wide open. And I know that there are people in, you know, being
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appointed to senior positions who are very determined to do that.
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08:22
One of the things that I found really kinda shocking was when they revealed how much money the Democrats had spent on the election and how much money was spent on activist groups.
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08:32
Yeah. Right.
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08:32
It’s like more than a $100,000,000. Right?
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08:35
Yeah. There’s just there’s extensive government funding of of of politically oriented NGOs. Yeah. NGO is one of those great terms, like, nongovernmental organization. Alright. Like, what what what the hell is that? Right.
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08:47
What is that? Tell me. I don’t know.
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08:48
Well, it’s it’s sort of a charity and but what it really Sort of. Sort of. But most of the time, it’s a it’s a political entity. It’s an entity with a political agenda. But then it’s funded by the government in a very large percentage of cases, including the the NGO the NGOs and the censorship complex, like the government grants, National Science Foundation grants, like direct the state department grants.
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09:08
Yeah. Right? Direct money. And then it okay. Now you got an NGO funded by the government. Well, that’s not an NGO.
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09:13
Like
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09:13
Right. That’s a geo. Right.
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09:15
Right? And then you’ve got a conspiracy you you know, like, with censorship, then you have a conspiracy because you’ve got government officials using government money to fund where what look like private organizations that aren’t. And then what happens is the government outsources to these NGOs the things that it’s not legally allowed to do. Like what? Like like censorship.
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09:35
Oh, okay.
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09:35
Like, violation of first amendment rights. Right. Right? The the government so the first so what they always say is the first amendment only applies to the government. The first amendment says the government cannot cannot censor American citizens. And so what they do is if you wanna censor American citizens, you’re in the government.
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09:47
You if you’re smart, you don’t do that. What you do is you fund an outside organization, and then you have them it. Boy. Right? And that’s what’s been happening.
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09:54
Right?
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And and and That’s like hiring a hitman. Like, it’s not okay to murder someone, but you can hire someone to murder someone, and then you’re clean.
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10:00
Yeah. And if you wanna solve a murder, it’s not enough to find out who the hitman was. You have to find who paid the hitman. Right? Right.
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10:05
You wanna
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10:05
you wanna work your way up the chain. And so a lot a lot of this traces into the White House. The best defense the companies have is that a lot of this happened under coercion. Right? Because when when the when the government when the government puts pressure on you like, it it might be a phone call. It might be a letter.
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10:18
It might be the threat of an investigation. It might be a subpoena. It it could take many forms. But when the government does that, it carries you know, that’s a very powerful message. It’s like it’s like a message from a mob boss. Right?
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10:28
It’s like, don’t you wanna do me a favor? It’s like, you know, yes, mister Campino. I do. Right? Like, I like my corner store.
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10:35
I’d like it to not catch on fire tonight. Right? And so there’s there’s this overwhelming hammer blow of pressure that comes in. And by the way, even when the government doesn’t talk to you directly, if they’re funding the organization that is talking to you, then it’s very clear what’s happening.
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10:47
So you you come under incredible pressure. And so the the the whole kind of chain, this whole chain of governments, activists, universities, and companies was corrupted. And then on top of that, people in the companies, in a lot of cases, made a lot of decisions that I think they’re probably increasingly starting to regret.
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11:00
What was confusing to me was that the government spent so much money on these activist groups during the election, and I didn’t understand, like, what purpose that would serve. Like, what what function would it serve to spend all this money on these activist groups that already support you supposedly? Yeah. Like, are you bribing them to support you?
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11:23
Are they what are they are they are you paying them to go on talk shows and consistently, repeat the government’s message, the current administration’s message? Like, what will be the function of that?
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11:34
So I think in some play in some cases, just it’s just pay to play. Right? So for as an example, we know that Kamala’s campaign paid certain on her personalities, you know, file and then there were there were you know, which it’s your point. People are very supportive of of Kamala who then gave her, you know, interviews that that went really well.
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11:48
And so I I think in some cases, you just have straight pay to play. That’s just how that system works. It’s just expected. And then I think you have other organizations like like these NGOs and others activist groups where they’re they’re actually you know, they actually do field activities. Right?
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11:59
And so there’s, you know, maybe there’s a get out to vote component or there’s, you know, social media influence downstream component or some other, you know, kind of field activity that’s happening in support of the election.
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12:07
I just didn’t think that they pay like, when it’s still unclear whether or not celebrities got paid to endorse her. Right. Right? Have you
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12:16
They they they’ve mixed it up because there’s there’s, like, Oprah said Oprah says, the her production company was paid to put on the production, but she was not paid for the interview.
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12:23
Yeah. Whatever. But it was,
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12:24
you know, 2 whatever. 2,000,000. $2,000,000,000. It was
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12:27
initially listed as 1, and it turned out it was 2.5.
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12:29
Right. And so if she went
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12:31
to a production company
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12:32
Right.
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12:32
And my production company gets paid $2,500,000 to endorse Trump. Right. And then I go, I didn’t get any of that money. Right. People are like, shut the fuck up because you got it’s your company. What are you
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12:42
talking about? Yeah.
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12:43
And, also, how much does it cost to do an event? Yes. How does it cost $2,500,000 to put on an event? Like, are you feeding people gold sandwiches? Like, what are you doing? Like, how is that possible?
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12:54
Yeah. Exactly. So yeah. And then you because the fact that it’s deliberately obfuscated, of course, is a is a clue. That’s true.
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13:00
I just thought the really bizarre one was the allegations, and I I’d say unsubstantiated allegations. It’s been alleged that Beyonce got $10,000,000. Yeah. And Lizzo got $3,000,000. Eminem got $1,800,000. Like, really? Yeah.
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13:16
I think if you just, like, published all these numbers, these celebrities will all get so mad at each other that you you you
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13:21
Sure they are.
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13:21
Then you would learn everything. But it’s
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13:22
And then
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13:22
I’m getting short.
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13:23
Right. Right. Right. Right. Lizzo’s Lizzo’s furious right now. Right? Yeah. Lizzo’s probably listening to this right now being like, what?
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13:28
Well, I wonder if Lizzo’s like, I didn’t get shit. I would say it. But why haven’t they said it? Like, Beyonce has been mum about the whole thing. I I think I would probably say. Yeah. Like, I didn’t get any money to do that. Yeah. Yeah.
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13:40
But that was a weird one too because a lot of people thought Beyonce was gonna do a concert. Right. And she just went out there and talked. And everybody’s like, what the fuck? Because they all came to see a free Beyonce concert. Yes. And then she just said, I wanna support Kamala Harris.
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13:53
And everybody’s like, good. Good. Now if you like it, then you should have put a ring on it.
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14:00
Come on. We love your songs. Yes.
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14:02
That’s what we’re here for.
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14:03
Yes.
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14:04
I just didn’t think that it was even possible that a I I didn’t think a candidate would ever pay for an endorsement.
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14:12
Yeah. I
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mean, the fact that it was even alleged.
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14:14
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, and then there’s, of course, there’s there’s the the even stinkier version, arguably, which is all the all the social media influencer campaigns now. There’s, you know, tremendous amount of payola.
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14:22
That’s for sure. Right. Because I know people personally who are approached multiple times and offered a substantial amount of money to post things in support of Harris.
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14:33
Yeah. And, like, I’m I’m pro capitalism, and I’m happy for them that they get paid, but, like, maybe we should know.
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14:37
Like Yeah. That seems like something you should absolutely have to disclose. It should be like like, say if I was gonna do an ad for, you know, whatever, a certain coffee company, Black Rifle Coffee, and I did it on my Instagram. I’d have to say ad. I have to say this is an ad.
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14:51
Yeah. It’s
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14:52
a paid ad. Yeah. And that’s part of the thing. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Unless it’s your company. Yep. Like, you’re supposed to say they’re paying me to do this.
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15:00
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, look, I the good news with these is we learn each cycle, we learn a lot about how politics works. We learn about a lot about how fake it is. We learn a lot about the things we put up with for a very long time. I mean, everybody’s always, like, freaked out by, like, whatever the new guy does, But, like, this real scandal in most cases, I think, is just the way the system already works.
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15:16
It’s a sneaky system. Yep. Well, another fascinating aspect of the system that we learned out this time around is the uncontrolled aspect of it, like what, Trump called earned media Right. Was much more powerful than anything else. Yeah. The uncontrolled version of it. Like, one of the things that, unfortunately, for them, mass media or corporate media has done is they’ve diminished their credibility so much so much so that, like, Joy Reid was on TV today talking about saying that Trump was gonna shoot protesters and just wild unsubstantiated crazy shit.
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15:56
Yeah. And the more they do stuff like that, the more that they say things like that, the more it diminishes their impact and the more it drives people to independent media sources.
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16:07
Yeah. I’m sure you’ve seen the ratings collapse that they’ve that they’ve they’ve been you know, they’re down to, like, they’re down to, like, MSNBC is down to, like, 50,000 people in the 18 to 20 18 to 49 demo.
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16:16
That is so wild. Which is tiny. Right? It’s so crazy. It’s really tiny.
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16:20
So I I think that’s happening. The Gallup Organization has done polls on trust and institutions, including, you know, media for the last 60 years. It’s been a steady slide down, and in the last, you know, 4 years, it’s fallen off a cliff. I think it’s real. Oh, there’s another study that came out.
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16:34
The kids are not watching a lot less TV. Kids are just giving up on TV. Yeah. And they’re just, you know, they’re on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram and other things. And so, like, I I I think it’s tipping.
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16:44
Question I’ve been asking myself is when when will the actual you know, famously, 1960 was the first television election. Right? The, you know, sort of legend has it because it was the one where the televised debate really mattered. And if you saw the televised debate, you saw Confident Kennedy and Nervous Nixon. And if you heard him Right. You experienced something different. And handsomeness. And handsomeness.
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17:01
And
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17:02
the fact.
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17:02
And vitality Yes. Health Yeah. Right, and all all these things. Sort of positive positive spirit, positive energy. I’m actually not. This this might be have been the 1st Internet election, or maybe we actually haven’t had it yet. Like, I I feel like we’re really close to the 1st Internet election, but maybe it’s not all the way there.
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17:17
This is it.
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17:18
I think this there’s an argument that this is it. Right? And that, you know, all the, you know, all the stuff, especially in the last 6 months, all the podcast, obvious and your your show played a big role. But, like, I think there’s a real if you’re gonna run-in 28, like, I think there’s, like, a fully Internet native way to run these campaigns that might literally involve, like, 0 television advertising.
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17:35
And maybe you don’t even need to raise that money. And maybe, to your point, if you have the right message, maybe you just go straight direct. Yeah. I see. Completely different way to do this.
Speaker: 1
17:43
I think that’s the only way now. And I think if you do pay people, it’s not gonna have the same impact. You know, I think these call her daddy shows and all these different shows that she went on, I mean, I’m sure they had an an impact. But I think that in the future, I I I’m sure they’re they’re scrambling to try to create their own version of this show.
Speaker: 1
18:04
This is one thing that keeps coming up. Like, we need our own Joe Rogan.
Speaker: 0
18:07
Right.
Speaker: 1
18:08
But they had me. That was the number one
Speaker: 0
18:10
they had you. Number one they had
Speaker: 1
18:11
you. They
Speaker: 0
18:12
had you and they drove you away. It’s the number one number. But they also have, you know, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN.
Speaker: 1
18:17
Right. But that doesn’t work anymore. I know. It’s like, you know, like, you’re using smoke signals and everybody else has a cell phone.
Speaker: 2
18:23
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
18:24
That’s right. It doesn’t work.
Speaker: 0
18:25
Yeah. That’s right. That’s right.
Speaker: 1
18:26
It’s just it’s it’s a bizarre time. It’s really interesting, though. Like, as you said, like, we’re in a great timeline. And I think it’s a fascinating timeline too because there’s so much uncertainty, and there’s so much right? We are at the verge of AI, you know, OpenAI. You know, Altman has said now that he thinks 2025 will be the year that AI becomes sentient, whatever that means. You know, artificial general intelligence will be will emerge.
Speaker: 1
18:53
And who knows how that affects I I’ve said publicly and I’m kind of half joking
Speaker: 2
18:58
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
18:58
That we need AI government. Yeah. You know, I it sounds crazy to say Yeah. But instead of having this, like, alpha chimpanzee that runs the tribe of humans Yeah. How about we have some, like, really logical fact based Yeah. You know, program Yeah. That, you know, makes it, like, really reasonable and equitable in a way that we can all agree to.
Speaker: 0
19:18
Right.
Speaker: 1
19:19
Let’s govern things in that manner.
Speaker: 0
19:20
Right. So you can actually simulate this today because you you can go on these systems, shed GPT or cloud or these others. And you you can ask, you know, how should we handle issue x? How should this be relevant?
Speaker: 1
19:29
We’ve done that.
Speaker: 0
19:30
Right. How should the Yeah. Department of Energy do whatever, nuclear policy or whatever? And and, what I find when I do that is I discover 2 things. Number 1, of course, these things are these things have the same problem social media side, which is they’re tremendously politically biased. And Right.
Speaker: 0
19:41
You know, that’s on purpose, and they they need to fix that. And that’s gonna be a big topic in the next several years. But the other thing you learn is if you can get through the political, basically, bias and censorship, if you can actually get to a discussion of the actual issue, it’s you get very sophisticated answers.
Speaker: 0
19:52
Yes. Right? Very logical, very straightforward, and it will explain every aspect of the issue to you, and it’ll take you through all the pros and cons. Yeah. And, you know
Speaker: 1
20:00
I mean, it might be the way to go Yeah. Which is so horrifying for people to think because everyone’s worried about the terminators taking over the world. And, like, if that’s the first step as we let them govern us. Well,
Speaker: 0
20:11
look, there’s nothing stopping a a politician from using this. There’s nothing stopping a policymaker from using you know, as a tool. Right. You start out at at very least, you start out using it as a tool. There’s nothing to prevent. You know, like, for example, I think military commanders in the field are gonna have basically AI battlefield assistance that are gonna advise them on strategy, tactics.
Speaker: 1
20:26
Yes.
Speaker: 0
20:26
Right? How to win conflicts, and then it’ll start to work its way up, and then they’ll be doing, you know, war planning. And then if you’re a general if you’re, you know, sergeant or a colonel or a general, it’s gonna just mean you perform better.
Speaker: 2
20:36
Yes.
Speaker: 0
20:36
And so maybe there’s, like, you know, the human them sort of man machine kinda symbiotic relationship. And you and you could imagine that happening more in the in the policy process and in the in the political process.
Speaker: 1
20:44
And there’s also AI controlled jets, which are far superior. They they did Mike Baker was telling us about that. They did these simulated dog fights, and the AI controlled jets won 100% of the time Yeah. Over humans. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
20:57
And there’s a bunch of reasons for that, and part of it is just simply the speed of of processing and and so forth. But another big thing is if you don’t have a human in the plane, you don’t have the, what do they say, the spam in the can. You don’t have the, you know, you don’t have the human body
Speaker: 2
21:08
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
21:08
In the plane, you don’t have to keep a human being alive, which means you can be a lot faster, and you can move a lot more quickly.
Speaker: 1
21:13
G forces.
Speaker: 0
21:14
Much much higher g forces.
Speaker: 1
21:15
Yeah. And then there’s no option for someone to go crazy.
Speaker: 0
21:20
Yeah. That’s also yes. That’s also right. Yes. Exactly.
Speaker: 1
21:23
It’s no there’s no human element Yeah. You know, which is, a real element.
Speaker: 0
21:27
Yeah. No. Look. I think we’re gonna it’s gonna be common to have, like, Mach 5 drone you know, jet drones within a within a few years. And, you know, there’ll be a fraction of the size of the current, you know, manned planes, which means you can have, like, a lot more of them.
Speaker: 0
21:38
And so you kinda wanna imagine, you know, a 1000 of these things, like, coming over the horizon right at you. And it really changes is is it’s actually I think it’d be very interesting. It really changes the fundamental equation of war in the following sense. Fundamentally, in the past, the people who won wars are the the the the people who had the most men and the most material.
Speaker: 2
21:55
Right.
Speaker: 0
21:55
So you just needed the most soldiers, and you needed the most equipment. And in this drone world that we’re talking about, it’s gonna be the people with the most money and the best technology. Yeah. Right? And so, for example, small states, you know, small advanced states like Singapore will be able to punch way above their weight and then kind of large, sort of economically or technologically backward states that normally would have won will now lose.
Speaker: 0
22:14
And so it’s gonna it’s gonna be a a recalibration. And then it has the the the good news is you’re not putting soldiers at risk. Right? So you’ll have a lot less a lot less death. The the the bad news, arguably, is it’ll be easier to get into conflicts because you’re not putting soldiers at risk.
Speaker: 0
22:27
So there’s gonna have to be a recalibration of, like, when you actually, like, lean into an attack.
Speaker: 1
22:31
I’m sure you’re aware of all this u o UAP disclosure jazz that you see on television. The more I look into it, the more I think at least a percentage of it, a healthy percentage of it is bullshit. And there’s probably some government projects where they’ve developed some very sophisticated propulsion systems that they’ve applied to drones.
Speaker: 2
22:55
Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
22:55
And that that’s what these people are seeing, and this is one of the reasons why they continually have sightings over secured military spaces, like, out in the Eastern seaboard. Like, there’s, areas over Virginia where they continually see them. In San Diego, they see them off the coast of San Diego, where there’s a place where you would test stuff like that.
Speaker: 0
23:15
Yeah. Well, so, of of course, we know that that was the case for a very long time for sure from the fifties through the eighties because we the development of stealth Right. Was was highly classified, and the SR seventy one was brand new at one point. And so you had these, like, you know, alien, you know.
Speaker: 1
23:28
Did you pay attention to that stuff
Speaker: 2
23:29
as well?
Speaker: 0
23:29
Of course. 100%. Yeah. And then and then and then, by the way, we’re not the only ones. And so I I you know, my speculation would be that a lot some of the military based stuff is is, you know, the Chinese doing something similar. Yes. And, you know, we got a glimpse into that with the balloon.
Speaker: 1
23:42
Well, that one thing was goofy, though.
Speaker: 0
23:43
They got shut down. But still, the fact that the Chinese are flying surveillance balloons over American territory Mhmm. And they were able to slip through our early warning systems and just, like, you know, loiter above military bases and, like, you know, take lots of, you know, imagery and do whatever scans they do.
Speaker: 0
23:56
Yeah. And, like, not literally nothing was happening, and we didn’t even know they were there most of the time. And so, like, you know, I would just say that’s like a tip of the ice. It feels like a tip of the iceberg kind of thing where if if they were doing that, there there are probably other things going on.
Speaker: 1
24:06
Well, I’ve read that someone had commented that similar things had happened during the Trump administration, but they didn’t tell Trump because they didn’t want him to shoot them down.
Speaker: 0
24:14
Interesting. Interesting. I for the record, I’m frustrating them down.
Speaker: 1
24:18
Yeah. I
Speaker: 0
24:18
think you should probably shoot
Speaker: 1
24:19
them down. They’re taking pictures of shit. They’re not there’s not even people up there. Fucking shoot them down. Yeah. Yeah. What’s the problem?
Speaker: 0
24:25
Yes. Exactly. Yes.
Speaker: 1
24:27
Do you think there are any of those that are not of this world?
Speaker: 0
24:31
I I I don’t think there’s any way to know from the outside. Have
Speaker: 1
24:34
you ever, like, pondered it late at night sitting on your porch Of course.
Speaker: 2
24:37
Of course.
Speaker: 1
24:37
Staring up at the sky?
Speaker: 0
24:38
Of course. Of course. Well, you know, race is, you know, racist. Number 1 is, is there a not? And then if if it is, you know, did it recently get here? Have they been here for a long time? You know, did they arrive 5000 years ago?
Speaker: 1
24:49
Thinks they’re demons and angels.
Speaker: 0
24:51
You know? I mean, demons and angels are demons and angels real? It’s like, you know, literally, you know, probably not. But, like, certainly, they’re metaphorically real. And are there kinda shades of gray between literal and metaphorical?
Speaker: 1
25:02
Well, the actions are certainly demonic and angelic. Yep. Right? Actions of human beings Yep. Mass things that happen in the world Yeah. Are uplifting or horrific. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
25:11
Yeah. Evil people doing evil things are possessed. I mean, they’re they’re possessed by something. Right? Like, something is going on. Right. And, like, you know, what’s what’s the dividing line between, you know, an actual supernatural force and a and some sort of psychological, sociological thing that’s so overwhelming that it just takes control of people and drives them crazy?
Speaker: 0
25:26
Like, you might might as well call that a demon.
Speaker: 1
25:28
Yeah. It’s fascinating because, like, when you think about from theological term like, when you think of it from a religious perspective, you know, people would apply what would a demon do, what would angels do, what is what is a what is the will of God, and what is, like, the evils of the the worst aspects of humanity, you would you know, you could apply them to so many things in the world, but we’re very reluctant to say that something is demonic.
Speaker: 1
25:58
Yeah. Like, even though it’s clearly demonic, like, clearly in action, like, this is what a demon would do. Yep. A demon would possess people to gun down children Exactly. You know, and, you know, use drones to shoot down a wedding party. Yeah. A demon would do that. Right.
Speaker: 0
26:15
Exactly. So a friend of mine is a religious scholar. He’s a teaches a Catholic Catholic University, and he’s a religious history scholar. And he says that, medieval people would have had a medieval people were psychologically better prepared for the era ahead of us with AI and robots and drones everywhere than we are, because medieval people took it for granted that they lived in a world with higher powers, higher spirits, angels, demons, all kinds of supernatural entities.
Speaker: 0
26:38
And they just it was just assumed, to be true. And in the world we’re heading into, you know, that we’re arguably already in, you know, there are going to be these, you know, new forces, these new entities running around doing things. And, you know, we’re gonna just we’re gonna struggle, and we’re gonna, you know, we’re gonna catastrophize. We’re gonna conclude, you know, like AI is the end of the world.
Speaker: 0
26:55
Yeah. The medievals would have said, oh, it’s just another spirit. Like, you know, it’s just another kind of entity. Yeah. It’s better.
Speaker: 0
27:00
It’s it’s better than humans at some things, but so are angels. And so we’re gonna have to, like, change our mentality. We’re almost gonna have to become a little bit more medieval. We’re gonna have to open up our minds to the kinds of entities that we’re dealing with. Wow. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
27:10
Which which also could help us actually deal with people. Like, it it may maybe maybe maybe there’s an explanatory way to think about human behavior here that seems less rational, but might actually be more rational.
Speaker: 1
27:20
Well, you expressed yourself, very brilliantly in describing the current state of woke ideology as a religion. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
27:29
That’s right.
Speaker: 1
27:30
And that the the way you described it was brilliant because you were you were saying that it has all the elements, excommunication, adherence to a very strict doctrine, all these different aspects of it, saying things that you everyone knows to be illogical and nonsensical, but you must repeat it. You know, these things are indicative of people that are in cults or people that are a part of, like, a very, like, a serious fundamental religion.
Speaker: 0
27:53
Yeah. But, I mean, of course, the big difference between Woke and those traditional religions is Woke has no concept of redemption. Right. Right. No concept of forgiveness.
Speaker: 1
28:00
Right. Which is a very evil religion. You do not want that. Yeah. It’s it’s totally true.
Speaker: 2
28:05
Well, it’s ill conceived.
Speaker: 1
28:06
Right? Because it’s, like, immature. It’s an immature religion. Yes. It’s
Speaker: 0
28:11
absolutist. It’s inherently totalitarian. It has to be because it can be permanently destroy people. Yeah. Woke also understands something that the Greeks understood, which is the being ostracized and being put to death are the same thing. And so when the Greeks sentenced somebody like Socrates to death, they gave them the option of just leaving. But the problem was Really? Yes.
Speaker: 0
28:30
Socrates could have just walked out and left.
Speaker: 1
28:31
No kidding.
Speaker: 0
28:32
But the the the reason that was considered equivalent sentences is because at that time, if you were not a citizen of a particular city, you would get killed in the next city. You’d be identified as the enemy presumptively and killed. And so there was no way to survive without being part of your community. Wow.
Speaker: 0
28:45
And I and I that’s what the Wilks figured out is you can do the same thing. If you’re able to, like, you know, nail somebody, on, you know, on on charges of having done something, you know, unacceptably horrible, then you make them toxic, and all of a sudden, they can’t, you know, they can’t have you know, for, you know, people, you know, they
Speaker: 2
28:58
lose friends.
Speaker: 0
28:58
They lose family. They Yeah. They lose they can’t get work. You know? And before you know it, like, they’re, you know, living, you know, severely diminished damaged lives. Some people then go on to kill themselves.
Speaker: 1
29:06
I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention at all to Blue Sky.
Speaker: 0
29:09
I have.
Speaker: 1
29:09
But I have multiple friends that have accounts on Blue Sky that, are very sophisticated trolls and are pushing, like, the woke agenda to a satirical point
Speaker: 0
29:24
There we go.
Speaker: 1
29:25
Like to, like, parody. Yeah. But, like, on the edge where you’re not quite sure, or they’ll say enough real things that make sense and talk about their own anxieties and personal issues with stuff and then say fucking ridiculous shit. And it’s fascinating. I bet it works. It does work. That’s what’s so terrifying. It’s like all the outcasts of Twitter.
Speaker: 1
29:45
All the people that were like, I can’t take this. A few of them have come back, which is wonderful. I love when they come back. I’m gone. I’m gonna go to Blue Sky. Fuck you people. Like, a bunch of them went to threads for a while. Like, Stephen King, he went to threads. Came right back.
Speaker: 1
29:56
They all come right back. They can’t the marketplace of ideas, like, okay. You could go to, like, a fruit stand in the middle of the fucking desert, and that’s a marketplace, or you can go to the farmer’s market where everybody’s there.
Speaker: 2
30:09
Yeah. Like, where
Speaker: 1
30:09
are you gonna go?
Speaker: 0
30:10
That’s right.
Speaker: 1
30:10
You’re gonna go to the farmer’s market.
Speaker: 0
30:11
That’s right.
Speaker: 1
30:12
Tons of people.
Speaker: 2
30:12
It’s a
Speaker: 1
30:13
lot of fun.
Speaker: 0
30:13
Yes.
Speaker: 1
30:14
A lot of activity.
Speaker: 0
30:15
Yes.
Speaker: 1
30:15
That fruit stand’s fucking barren and dessert. There’s no one there. There’s very few choices.
Speaker: 2
30:19
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
30:20
It’s not fun.
Speaker: 0
30:20
And it’s win win to have well, it’s win win to have it back on Twitter because it’s good for them because they wanna proselytize. And so they they need an audience they need an audience. So they they they win. And then we win because it’s really, really fun to dunk on them.
Speaker: 1
30:31
But it’s also weird for them to not want any pushback at all. Yep. Like, don’t isn’t the whole thing supposed to be about an exchange of ideas? Like, if you have a controversial idea and someone disagrees with it, don’t you wanna hear that position? I I know I do.
Speaker: 0
30:47
Yeah. I wanna
Speaker: 1
30:48
hear it. Yeah. Even if I vehemently disagree with it, I wanna hear it. I wanna know where how do you how’s your brain work? How are you coming to these conclusions? What makes you think this way? Who are you? What do you like? I wanna go on Instagram, I wanna look at your pictures. Yeah. I wanna see what you’re up to. What are you doing? You know? Yeah.
Speaker: 2
31:03
What do you
Speaker: 1
31:03
do with your free time? You know, what are you complaining about? Yeah. Yeah. I wanna it’s like it’s a fascinating education on human psychology and to to watch people express themselves publicly and then also be attacked publicly by strangers, which never happens in the real world.
Speaker: 1
31:20
Right. It like, at scale Yes. The way it happens on social media. Yeah. And I think it’s an amazing time for people to examine ideas if you can handle it.
Speaker: 0
31:30
Yeah. My favorite term is marketplace of idea. Yeah. You can have a marketplace of ideas. It’s just gonna be one idea. Right? So blue sky is a marketplace of idea.
Speaker: 1
31:39
Sure. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
31:39
X is the marketplace of ideas. That that final s makes a lot of difference.
Speaker: 1
31:43
Yeah. Right. But the thing about x is it really is diverse.
Speaker: 2
31:48
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
31:48
There’s I follow tons of, like, kooky leftist progressive nutbags that, like, have bizarre takes on everything. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
31:56
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
31:57
And they were a 100% convinced that Kamala Harris is gonna sweep all the swing states including Iowa. They were all in, and I was like, this is wild. Yeah. Like, is that gonna happen? Are they right? Like, this is crazy, but it’s they were 100% convinced. And it’s it’s fascinating to see all these different kinds of people, to see the Charlie Kirks and, you know, the the full on left wing kooks
Speaker: 2
32:20
Right.
Speaker: 1
32:20
And see them all together. Right. So what you need that.
Speaker: 0
32:23
Yeah. Well, look. So one one of the ways I think to think about this is all new information is heretical by definition. Right? So so anytime anybody has a new idea, the it’s it’s a it’s a threat to the existing power structure. So all new ideas start as heresies. And so if you don’t have an environment that can tolerate heresies, you’re not gonna have new ideas, and you’re gonna end up with complete stagnation.
Speaker: 1
32:42
Right. If you
Speaker: 0
32:43
if you have stagnation, you’re gonna go straight into into decline.
Speaker: 1
32:45
Yeah. Right?
Speaker: 0
32:46
And and and I think this is the the the aberrant nature. This is the timeline split. I think that I think the last decade has just been, like, a really weird aberrant time where things have not been working like they should. And and, you know, in 2015, Twitter called itself the free speech wing of the free speech party. Right? And Elon Elon has not, like, Elon has restored it. Right.
Speaker: 0
33:04
But he brought it back he brought it back to something that everybody thought was completely normal 10 years ago. Yeah. And I think I hope this last 10 years increasingly is just gonna feel like a bad dream. Like, I can’t believe we tolerated the level of repression, right, and anger and, you know, emotional incontinence and, you know, cancellation campaigns.
Speaker: 1
33:20
Emotional incontinence is a great term.
Speaker: 0
33:21
Yes. There has been a lot. That’s really what it’s finding. Emotional incognes.
Speaker: 1
33:26
Is diarrhea in your emotions.
Speaker: 0
33:28
Just spraying rage in all directions. And so I I, you know, I’m I’m very, at the moment at least, very optimistic that there’s a cultural change happening here that’s even more profound than the than the, than than the political change.
Speaker: 1
33:37
I have a lot of respect and also sympathy for Jack Dorsey. I I’d like him a lot as a human being. I think he’s a brilliant guy, and I think he had very good intentions. Mhmm. But he was a part of a very large corporation, and he had an idea for a Wild West Twitter. He wanted to have 2 versions of Twitter.
Speaker: 1
33:54
He wanted to have the Twitter that was pre Elon where there’s moderation and you, you know, you can’t dead name someone and all that jazz. And then he wanted to have an additional Twitter that was essentially what x is now. Yeah. And he just didn’t have the ability to push that through with the the board and the executives and all the people that, you know, were fully on board with woke ideology.
Speaker: 0
34:17
Yeah. So the experience that people like Jack have had running these companies in the last decade has been and I don’t mean to, like, let them offload further decisions, but just the the lived experience as they say of of what these people’s lives have been like is just daily pounding.
Speaker: 0
34:28
Just every single day, it’s like meteor strikes coming down from the sky exploding around you, be getting attacked from every conceivable direction, being called just incredibly horrible things, being attacked from many different directions.
Speaker: 2
34:39
Well,
Speaker: 1
34:39
he’s already left blue sky.
Speaker: 0
34:40
Well, yeah. So so that says that I need a jack because the jack then created bluesblue sky, which is kind of exactly the opposite of anyway where he thought it. You know? Oh, by the way, you know, the new the new name for it, He’s gonna he’s gonna keep swinging. And by the way, full credit, he supported Elon.
Speaker: 0
35:09
You know, they’ve they’ve mixed mixed up a little bit, but by and large, he’s been very supportive and was very supportive at a key time.
Speaker: 2
35:14
And
Speaker: 1
35:14
Well, I I also found it fascinating that when there was any sort of a right wing branch of that stuff, like Gab or any of these, they would immediately be infiltrated by bots as well, like my friends that troll on Blue Sky. But these are Nazis. Like, these are Nazi bots. These are people that would just spew horrible hate, and then Gab would be labeled, oh, this is where the Nazis go.
Speaker: 1
35:37
This is a a a right wing psychopath
Speaker: 0
35:40
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
35:40
Social media app. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
35:41
And I think, frankly, I think you get the same thing if you start out. If I think if you start out overtly political on either side, I think that’s what you end up with. Yes. And so I I just they like that. That that doesn’t seem to be an effective route to market. It seems like you have you have to start from the beginning as a general purpose service, but but you need to have some sense of the actual guardrails you’re gonna have around.
Speaker: 0
35:58
But and by the way, every social media service, Internet service that ever works, there’s always some content factors and restrictions because you can’t have child porn, you can’t
Speaker: 1
36:06
have a sexual violence, you
Speaker: 0
36:07
can’t have terrorist recruitment. Right. And even the first amendment, there’s, like, a dozen carve outs that the Supreme Court has ruled on over time. There are things like that that you can’t just, like, say. Right? I can’t say let’s go join ISIS and, you know, let’s go let’s go attack Washington.
Speaker: 0
36:18
Like, it’s just it’s literally not not allowed. So there there’s always some controls, but you need to have, like, a spine of steel if you’re gonna hold back the the the the censorship pressure. And and, you know, there’s basically, Substack, you know, company I’m involved, you know, is doing very well, know, smaller
Speaker: 1
36:33
I love Sub Stack.
Speaker: 0
36:34
Smaller than Twitter, but doing extremely well. Fantastic. And they’ve done a great job, I think, of holding the line on this stuff. And then, obviously
Speaker: 1
36:40
And it’s an amazing resource. There’s so many brilliant people on Substack.
Speaker: 2
36:43
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
36:43
That’s right.
Speaker: 1
36:44
I love Substack. I get a large percentage of my news from Substack. Right.
Speaker: 0
36:48
That’s right.
Speaker: 1
36:49
It’s really good and it’s so valuable and it’s such a great place for people who are independent journalists and physicians and scientists to publish their ideas and actually get paid for it by the people who subscribe for to it. I think it’s fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
37:03
And there’s lots of people on the far left and the far right.
Speaker: 1
37:05
Yes.
Speaker: 0
37:05
Right? So you actually have the full spread. Like, when when a far left person gets upset at work, you know, somebody working in the New York Times are mad because they’re not far left enough, they quit, and they start
Speaker: 1
37:13
in Substack.
Speaker: 0
37:13
And Substack welcomes them in.
Speaker: 2
37:15
Yes.
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37:15
Which is which which is why they don’t evolve into a gap or or or something like that because it it really is a plat it really is a platform. You it really does welcome all companies.
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37:22
Well, it’s also very difficult to subvert in that same way because Substack is essays. Mhmm. Right? You’re you’re reading people’s essays and papers on things. And, like, these are long form things that are very well in a lot of cases, very well researched, and it’s not the kind of thing you could just shit post on.
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37:40
Right.
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37:41
You know, there are comments, but it’s just like they don’t hold the weight that the actual article holds.
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37:45
Right. So my partners my partners at work, they’ve observed that I tend to be able to inflame situations from time to time. I I can tend to be provocative and get people really upset. And so the the the rule they’ve asked me to comply with is I’m allowed to write essays, for example, in Substack.
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37:58
And I’m allowed to go on long form podcasts, but I’m not allowed to post. Really? Right. Exactly.
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38:04
Well
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38:04
You have rules? Yeah. That’s it’s the rule. It’s the rule.
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38:06
Now, by
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38:06
the way, I struggle I struggle against the rules because I can’t I can’t help myself from
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38:10
Why do they want you to have rules?
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38:12
Because otherwise, I I I inflame people too much. I drive I I I drive people too crazy.
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38:15
Did you do
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38:16
it on purpose? Sometimes. I mean, sometimes you have to. Sometimes it’s unintentional. Did you ever hear about when when the entire continent when the entire country of India was mad at me? No. No. I I spent one night with the entire country of India, basically, wanting to kill me. Oh. It was like it was it was incredible.
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38:32
I Oh my goodness. What
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38:33
happened? I mean, I was in a Twitter debate with somebody back when I was just posting freely on Twitter, and it was a debate about economics, and the the topic of colonialism came up. And I I made a comment in a in a in a long thread about, you know, colonialism, and it and it turns out the the Indians are still extremely sensitive, about the topic of, colonialism.
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38:50
And I did not understand, the mindset and the, historical orientation, and I tripped a line. Oh. And I stayed up all night, and I went hyperviral in every time zone in India. Every hour, there would be, like, an entirely new activation. Wow.
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39:04
And I
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39:04
and I was like I was like front page headline news, top of the hour TV news, like, all the way across India. Wow. Yes. It was like a I I do not recommend this as an experience. I I by the way, I learned how many incredible Indian American friends I have, because they all rallied to my, you know, my side, you know, said he’s he’s not you know, Mark’s not literally calling for the recolonization of India.
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39:23
Like, that that was
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39:24
not actually
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39:25
There’s a problem with the language barrier as well.
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39:26
Right? Language. And then just I what I my my my my it’s just the historical context. Americans have a different we Americans experience history differently than almost everybody else. History for us is just like stuff that happened in the past that doesn’t matter anymore, but a lot of other people around the world experience history as something that really still matter, like, really matters to their lives today.
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39:44
Yes. They they just they they they live in history more than we live a deeper understanding of kinda how they got to where they were and the things that happened to their parents or and grandparents and
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39:51
Right.
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39:52
And ancestors. And so there there’s just a it’s just it’s just you know, I don’t know if it’s, you know, better or worse. It’s just a different way of experiencing reality. Yeah. Anyway, I I recommend learning that lesson not by enraging a 1000000000 people.
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40:02
I experienced a small version of that recently because I said we shouldn’t be using long range missiles on Russia.
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40:08
Okay.
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40:09
And the Ukrainians, like and Ukrainian bots, a bunch of people came after me.
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40:13
Yeah.
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40:13
Because I was saying, like, the Biden administration, I was like, fuck these people. And then I think some people misconstrued that as fuck the Ukrainian people, which I absolutely was not saying.
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40:22
I see.
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40:22
I was saying fuck whoever in the last days of the presidencies decide to escalate this war because it appears that that’s what they’ve done. Right.
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40:31
It
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40:31
appears that they’re leaving Trump a giant mess
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40:34
Right.
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40:34
At the very least.
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40:35
Right. So the good news is I am allowed to go on podcast. I I I’m allowed to That’s
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40:39
good news.
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40:40
And the theory, it’s it’s your subject thing. It’s it’s because it’s basically Mark, you you need you need to explain yourself in long form. Yes. You you can’t just say a thing. Exactly to your your example. You can’t just say a thing and have people extrapolate from it because they’ll extrapolate.
Speaker: 0
40:53
It’s not their fault because you haven’t it’s your fault because you haven’t explained it. Right. Right? And so if you write something long form or if you go talk for 3 hours, at least you’ll the the context will be there. And then if they wanna get mad at you, that’s fine. But you can point everybody to the transcript, and it’s clear that that’s not what you meant.
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41:07
Do you also think while you’re writing how things could be misconstrued to let me, like, do a really good job of being very clear about this?
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41:14
100%.
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41:15
Yeah. You kinda have to.
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41:16
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
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41:17
Like, I had Jimmy Corsetti on the other day and he is an expert in, ancient history and ancient civilizations and we had this fascinating subjects. And one of them that came up was the Nazis and their fascination with the occult. And so you had to, like, clearly say, listen. Fuck Hitler. Okay?
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41:34
Can I be really clear? Fuck Hitler. Fuck the Nazis. Okay? I have not in any way okay. Now that we’re clear, let’s talk about where the swastika came from.
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41:44
Fuck Hitler. Did I say fuck Hitler?
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41:46
Let me
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41:46
say it again. Fuck Hitler. But the swastika is this ancient symbol, and he’s, like, talking about, like, why did the Nazis have this fascination with the occult and with ancient civilizations. And so we got into it, but it was, like, one of those things where it’s, like, alright. We’re hitting the 3rd rail. Everybody get your rubber boots on.
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42:01
Yeah.
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42:01
You know, let’s let’s, save everybody here.
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42:04
Yeah. I’ve got a friend in the entertainment business who, is quite left wing but really likes World War 2 documentaries. Oh. And so he’ll be like, yeah. I saw this great documentary last night about Hitler. And I’m like, I bet you did.
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42:19
You can’t even have a copy of Mein Kampf in your house.
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42:22
Oh, a student at this is actually one of the Stanford crazy stories. A student at Stanford was reported to the disciplinary board, the the, yeah, the the civil whatever discipline disciplinary board for reading a copy of Mind Confidential in
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42:32
in in
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42:32
the quad.
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42:32
Oh my god. That’s so crazy.
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42:34
Which is a book that’s been, you know, a sign for You
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42:36
could buy it right now on Amazon. 80 years Yeah.
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42:38
To college kids to, like, understand who these people were and, like, how to not do that again. Yeah. That that that kid was, like, nearly brought up in charters and nearly expelled. So, like Wow. Yeah. That’s that’s yes. This this is the world that I that I that I hope that we’re leaving.
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42:51
Well, it’s just an awful way to look at things. It’s it’s so awful to think that if you read about someone horrible, you support them. Yeah.
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42:59
That’s right.
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43:00
It’s just so crazy. Like, what how are we gonna study history? Yeah.
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43:04
Right. And how are we gonna well, how and how are we gonna prevent bad things from happening again Right. If we can’t if we can’t reparize around why they happen the first time.
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43:09
Especially something like the Nazis. Like, how are we how are we gonna learn, like, what happened?
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43:15
Yeah.
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43:15
The clearly, 19 twenties Germany was very different than 1945 Germany. Right. What the fuck happened in 25 years? Right. So what we’re essentially talking about is the year 1999 America
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43:28
Right.
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43:28
Versus 2024 America. Right. Imagine a shift of that magnitude so crazy
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43:34
Yep.
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43:34
That there’s a holocaust in 2024. And in 1999, everybody’s just hanging out.
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43:39
Yep. That’s right.
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43:40
Well, you should probably study that, and
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43:42
you should
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43:42
probably not reprimand someone for reading a book on this.
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43:44
Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. Exactly. And, look, the German people went along with it. Right? And so Yes. How you know, how did that happen?
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43:48
How did that happen?
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43:49
Right. And how many you know, did they yeah. Was there active agreement? Was there a disagreement? Was there you know, what what
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43:54
What are the steps Yeah.
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43:55
Exactly. Where
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43:55
things go horribly wrong?
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43:56
No. That’s right.
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43:57
And how can we recognize those? Because those steps have taken place multiple times in history, recorded history.
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44:02
Right.
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44:02
We’d know about them.
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44:03
Yeah.
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44:04
So, like, if we see them happening today, maybe we should stop it, nip it at the bud. Yeah. What better way than to read about when it already happened? Yeah.
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44:11
One one of my observations about people talking about current events is we know conclusively the prayer areas all had horrible moral problems, disasters, you know, catastrophes, wars, and all kinds. They made all kinds of horrible mistakes. But we are completely certain that in our time, we figured it all out. Right. Right?
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44:25
We’re a 100% convinced that we have it all dialed in. And the one thing I know for sure is people 50 years from now are gonna look back on us, and they’re gonna say, oh my god. Those people were awful. 100%. Right? It just it’s but, like, in what way?
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44:36
Right. In what way are we horrible? Yeah. I mean, certainly, a lot of the way we treat each other is horrible, especially with the amount of information that we have available. But it is fascinating also that if you, you know I I visited, Athens last year’s last year, and I got to tour the ruins, and I was like, oh, I wonder when it all went south.
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44:54
Like, when did they when did they know this had fallen apart? Like, when when was it in the peak of everything? They probably thought, hey. We have the most amazing sophisticated civilization that’s available on Earth, and we will maintain this. Yeah.
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45:09
This is we will be the center of intellectual discourse and the the home of democracy. This is us.
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45:15
Yeah. Yeah.
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45:15
And then, no. Now there’s, like, shitty apartment buildings next to the Parthenon. You’re like, what happened? Something horribly happened, and we don’t wanna think that could ever happen to us today.
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45:26
Right.
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45:27
We wanna think we’re American, motherfucker. We’re gonna keep this bitch rolling forever. Lynyrd Skynyrd, Freebird, let’s go. Second amendment, come on. And we’re gonna we think that it’s just this is this is the future. We America is the shining star of the world, and we’re gonna carry this on, but probably not, like, historically.
Speaker: 1
45:46
I mean, the what is the longest running dominant civilization ever? The Romans existed for, what, a couple 1000 years? Like, how long did the Greeks run? How long did the Egypt the Egyptians might be the longest running, especially if you, like, take into account the possibility of alternative history timelines
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46:04
Right.
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46:05
Where they’ll, you know like Egyptian hieroglyphs, they have kings that go back 30000 years.
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46:10
Right.
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46:10
Here it is. Egypt and Mesopotamia. There it is. One estimate measuring the time of the first pharaohs use of hieroglyph writing to the native religion was replaced by Christianity. Ancient Egyptian civilization endured for about 3,500 years. No. I bet it was more than that.
Speaker: 0
46:26
Well, the the the argument is just things just really didn’t really change. Right. Like, changes we under historical change of the kind that we understand where things actually change, the way people have changes, really kicked off with the Greeks. And so that was sort of the default status quo civilization for a long time.
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46:41
The the Greeks kicked off change as we understand it, and then and then and then and then the Romans. Do you know about the fishponds? Fishponds. The fish the Cicero’s fishponds. No.
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46:50
So, the Roman Empire, you know, ran for you know, in in a sort of Roman Republican Empire and it sort of helped what you consider as dynamic phase. It’s it’s sort of vital phase, ran for a few, you know, few 100 years, but maybe 400 years total, something like that. And, towards the end as it was sort of falling or stagnating and and increasingly starting to fall apart, a friend of mine says, when the roads got dangerous and nobody could quite explain why, right, which sounds familiar, by the way.
Speaker: 0
47:15
Cicero was, you know, one of the great one of the great Roman statesmen, and he he wrote these letters that we have. And in in the letters, he sends these letters to all of his aristocratic And it the the theme in the letters is that basically all of the actual competent, capable citizens of Rome are at are out in the countryside at their villas, perfecting their fish ponds.
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47:31
Right? They’re pulling into themselves. They’ve built their themselves their own protected environments.
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47:37
Right?
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47:37
Yeah. Right, where they control everything. And they’re completely focused on ornamentation. They’re completely focused on their clothes and and on their, you know, lifestyles. Right? They were Kardashians. I’m sure. I don’t know if the Kardashians have fishponds, but if they did, they would be spectacular fishponds.
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47:53
Amazing fishponds.
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47:54
No doubt they would be the most amazing fishponds we have ever seen. And he so he kept railing. He’s like, stop with the fishponds. Like, stop working on the like, get get back out here. Rejoin the senate. Like, get back involved in the system. Let’s keep this thing from caving in. Yes.
Speaker: 0
48:08
And I think yeah. Look. I I I you know, the significance I think of, you know, Trump actually talked about this in the campaign. You know, his version of this talking on the campaign trail is he’s like, look. I could be off in a resort.
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48:16
I own all these, like, golf club golf club. I have many things I could be off in
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48:20
my life. Of course. And he’s 78 years old. He probably would like
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48:22
to do that. Exactly. Right? And he’s, you know, surrounded. His family loves him and, like, you know, grandkids and, like, the
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48:26
whole thing.
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48:27
And he’s like, look. I’m not doing it because, like, I need I need I need to do this. And and it’s interesting because, you know, he doesn’t use, you know, he’s not referencing Cicero when he says that, but it’s it’s that spirit, right, that Cicero talked about where, you know, when times get tough, do the people who are in a position to actually make positive change actually step up or not?
Speaker: 0
48:42
Right. And I think we’ve had a pretty long stretch here where that hasn’t been the case. And I think maybe with Trump and then I think also with Elon, I think
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48:49
Yes.
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48:49
Because Elon’s the other guy. Right? He he for sure could be
Speaker: 1
48:52
What’s a coalition? Right? It’s not just him. It’s Vivek, Ramaswamy That’s right. Which I think Another
Speaker: 0
48:56
guy, by the way, who Yes. Could be kicking it on a beach somewhere.
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48:58
100%. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Shit.
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49:00
Very successful guy. And young and handsome.
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49:00
He can Exactly. Instead,
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49:02
he’s decided to go all in. Yeah.
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49:02
And then you of
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49:04
course, you have Tulsi Gabbard and,
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49:04
you know, you have JD Vance, who I
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49:05
think is brilliant. You have all these brilliant people that are together Yeah. Which is very hopeful. This is what we didn’t see out of the Biden Harris campaign.
Speaker: 0
49:18
Right.
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49:19
You know, what we saw from Harris and Walt, you have Walt, this guy who’s it seems like he’s a compulsive liar. At the very least, he’s lied multiple times about fairly insignificant things.
Speaker: 0
49:31
Yeah.
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49:31
You know, like whether or not he was a head coach or, an assistant coach. And the lies have always elevated him socially. Right? All the the lies about his military service or at least implying that he served in a different perspec in a different aspect. And then there was Tiananmen Square, this everything enhances his virtue. This is not what anybody wants. You want the opposite.
Speaker: 1
49:53
You know, you want a guy like JD Vance who served in the marines and, you know, went to Yale, comes from a single mother with addiction problems, rose from hard work and dedication to become who he is now. Like, that’s the kind of guy that I like. Yeah. That’s what we all would like. Like, okay, that looks like a leader to me.
Speaker: 0
50:09
Yeah. Yeah. Well, the Romans had this con the concept they took very seriously. They called virtue. Right? And, like, did you did you there’s a whole way of ranking, by the way, the Roman Virtues. And if you read them today, you just, like, wanna burst out crying because you’re just like, oh my god. I can’t believe what we’re missing. But, like Yes.
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50:21
People with virtue people with virtue, it’s not just that they think that they’re good people or that they tell everybody they’re good people. They actually act on it and actually step up.
Speaker: 1
50:28
Well, this is what’s missing from today’s secular society. Right? Like, we we don’t have, like, a doctrine that in it encourages that sort of thinking and behavior and rewards it publicly, which religion does.
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50:43
Yeah.
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50:43
You know, with true Christianity, you know, not subverted fucking giant arena Christianity where the guys flying private jets and has Rolls Royces and shit. Right. But actual, like, real Christian people. Right.
Speaker: 0
50:55
Well, the Roman the Romans had gods. I mean, their their virtues had gods.
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50:58
Yeah.
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50:58
And so and so they’re like it was actually wrapped. It was to your point, it was, like, encoded into their religion. It was wrapped up in their religion. They knew exactly what was expected of them. They knew exactly what their ancestors expected of them. They knew exactly what their gods expected of them.
Speaker: 1
51:09
I recently read Meditations again, a couple of months ago. Yep. I’ve listened to it in the sauna. But it’s it’s brilliant. And it’s it’s amazing that this guy, Marcus Aurelius, was thinking like this so many years ago.
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51:23
Yeah.
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51:23
And it’s so it’s so valid today, and it applies so well to modern life. It’s so so strange Yeah. You know, how brilliant this person was while he was running this incredible empire
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51:38
Yeah.
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51:39
That he could write about human psychology and the value of forgiveness and, you know, being true to yourself and constantly being truthful everywhere and everything you do and all these virtues and all these the the stoicism that he that he espoused. It’s it’s so valuable today. It’s really remarkable that this person who was a leader, what was it, 2000 years ago?
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52:00
Yeah.
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52:01
That his words still ring true today.
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52:04
Yeah. You you probably know he didn’t write it for public consumption.
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52:07
Right.
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52:07
Yeah. It was because he’s more amazing. His private notebook. Which is why it’s so good, probably. Yeah. Because because he probably wrote it for a substack. He’d like, well, people are gonna hate on this. Let me
Speaker: 0
52:15
Yeah.
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52:16
Yeah. Let me let me Yeah. You know, let me preemptively attack the people in the comments or Right. Subdue them.
Speaker: 0
52:23
But he’s like he’s like he’s he’s he’s lecturing himself. Like, he’s telling himself how to act. Right? Like, you know, he’s very this is very deep, deep. These are very deep important. My favorite my favorite part of the of the meditations is there’s a section where it’s something like, yeah, you’re going to wake up this morning and everybody’s going to hate you and everybody’s going to lie to you and everybody’s going to make dumb decisions and you’re going to be incredibly frustrated and you’re not going to get any credit for anything.
Speaker: 0
52:41
And you have to get up anyway. Yeah. Like, that’s all yes. Yes. Yes. That’s all true.
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52:48
Right.
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52:49
And you still have to get up and do your job.
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52:50
And, of course, he’s saying that to himself as the leader of Rome.
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52:53
To himself. Exactly. And, you know, and what’s in there is just like, wow. His life was not you know, he’s just like again, it’s it’s actually, you know, like the CEO of some it’s just like you’re gonna get pounded. Like Yeah.
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53:01
If you’re
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53:01
in these positions, you’re gonna get pounded every day.
Speaker: 2
53:03
Yeah. It’s a
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53:04
it’s just incredible.
Speaker: 0
53:04
And if you’re operating out of a out of a out of a true sense of virtue, if you’re operating out of a true sense of, like, if you’re exercising your responsibilities, you you you get up and do it anyway.
Speaker: 1
53:12
It’s amazing how much it resonates. Yeah. It really is. Yeah. What’s amazing how much so many, ancient writings resonate? Yeah. You know, there’s so much valuable information just like in Sun Tzu’s The Art of War. Yep. Or in, in the book of 5 rings. You know, there’s so many ancient books that you read and you go first first of all, I love reading them because I I try to imagine what, you know, what is this life like in like, if you wanna take like Miyamoto Musashi, 1400, when did he live?
Speaker: 1
53:43
Miyamoto Musashi, he was like 14 twenties or something like that. Like, what’s that like? Right. Like, what what is your life like? What is what is the what is the view of the world when you you don’t really have detailed maps or you don’t have any photographs?
Speaker: 1
53:58
You don’t have any idea what the fuck is going on in Europe unless you go there?
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54:02
Right.
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54:02
Like, what is what is your version of the world like?
Speaker: 0
54:06
Yeah.
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54:06
And then to see someone’s words written down and you read them and try to just imagine yourself in their perspective and their mindset.
Speaker: 0
54:14
Right. Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. And look, I I think if you’re somebody like that or somebody like Marcus Aurelius, you just have this incredible sense of responsibility. Yeah. Like, you the the one thing you do have is a sense of purpose. Like, you know exactly why you’re here. You know exactly what your role is.
Speaker: 0
54:26
You know exactly how you’re supposed to behave. You know exactly how you’re supposed to basically gain glory, how you’re supposed to honor your ancestors. Like, it’s it’s just all you know exactly where you are in the community. Right. You know, exactly. Right. You you have this, like, incredible sense of groundedness and rootedness.
Speaker: 0
54:36
And, of course, there’s huge downsides to that, which is it really cuts off your ability to, you know, run off and, you know, you know, go on American Idol. Right? Like, there’s there’s, like, a lot of things you can’t do. Right? But, like Yeah.
Speaker: 0
54:45
You know you know what you’re supposed to do, and you you either do it or you don’t do it. And and these days, to to have people like that, we need people who choose to be that way, right, which is a which is a, you know, which is arguably harder, right, given given all the choices that they actually choose to to live that way.
Speaker: 1
55:03
Well, not only that, giving all the distractions that people face Yep. Every day that keeps them from sitting down and
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55:08
writing a journal like that.
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55:08
Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. You know, I mean, back then, there’s
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55:10
not a lot of different things to
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55:11
entertain
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55:11
you with. Correct. Yes. You had to be maybe a little bit more
Speaker: 0
55:18
because you couldn’t you couldn’t have as much fun. My my favorite no. My my other favorite, Mark, meditations, Marcus Aurelius thing is, it’s something like be the rocks on the shore at which the at which the waves beat. Right? Like, yes. Like, yes. Your job is to stand there like the rocks do, and just the surf just, like keeps coming and keeps coming and keeps coming and your job is just like stand there and take it.
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55:38
Imagine what it was like like addressing the people back then too. Just yelling out to these groups or speaking in front of all the leaders like
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55:47
Yep.
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55:48
And all everyone’s plotting to kill you.
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55:49
There is also a lot of that going on. Yes. Yes. Everyone’s you you boys.
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55:53
I mean, how many times they try to kill Hitler? Yes. Like, everybody’s trying to kill you. If you’re if you’re running things
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55:58
Yep.
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55:58
All your generals are probably secretly wanting to become the king.
Speaker: 0
56:01
Yep. Yep. Exactly.
Speaker: 1
56:03
Yeah. All the usurpers are waiting in the wings.
Speaker: 0
56:05
Not easy lives. You know, today today, most of the killings happen metaphorically. Most. Although every now and then.
Speaker: 1
56:10
Yeah. Somebody takes a shot. Alternative timeline.
Speaker: 0
56:12
Yes. Yes. Exactly. That’s right. That’s right.
Speaker: 1
56:14
Yeah. How fearful were you, leading up to the election that it wouldn’t go into the new timeline?
Speaker: 0
56:22
It was so weird because all the experts said it was 5050 razor, you know, razor sharp. You know, it’s it’s this tiny little, you know, thing, 80,000 votes in 8 counties. Yeah. And, you know, and then, number 1, then it wasn’t, which means we can take all those experts and just dismiss them forever going forward because they clearly clearly have clearly have clearly have no clue.
Speaker: 0
56:40
So it’s another set of people we don’t have to listen to. But I had this really interesting conversation that kept nagging at me with a, a senior democrat who’s on his way out of of, of of politics. And he he said in the in the summer, I said, how how certain is or what what’s your view?
Speaker: 0
56:55
And and and this person said that Trump’s gonna win with a 100% certainty. Really? Mister Democrat, and from a sort of purple state. Right. So, you know, not New York or California, but like a state with, you know, sort of maybe Arizona. Broader cross section of people. And this person basically said, yeah.
Speaker: 0
57:11
Look. He said, look. All you have to do is fly anywhere in the country into any purple place and go into a second or third tier, you know, side city and take an Uber for 30 minutes. You know, land at the airport, take an Uber, drive around for 30 minutes, come back, and just ask the driver, like, how’s it going and who are they voting for?
Speaker: 0
57:25
And, basically, a 100% of the time, the answer is gonna be Trump, because people are just were people were just, like, completely fed up. They were just completely fed up. And then there was the, you know, combo enthusiasm, which this person said, you know, the combo enthusiasm is, like, highly focused in New York and California, which don’t matter from an electoral standpoint.
Speaker: 0
57:42
Right? So they’re not gonna decide anything.
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57:45
But that is huge when it comes to media.
Speaker: 0
57:48
Oh, sure. Of course. But that’s that’s the thing. The the self reinforcing nature of the bubble. This is what’s actually so interesting with these media bubbles is, like, the the people in these media bubbles are not breaking out. Like, I the the the this like, they’re getting deeper into this sort of collective psychosis that they indulge in, and part of it was getting excited about a candidate for which there was very little popular support for once you got outside of these, you know, heavily blue states.
Speaker: 0
58:06
Yeah. And so it it is in a lot of ways, it’s the most, you know, obvious explanation in the world, which is just people just fundamentally did not like the direction the country was going in, and they were just fed
Speaker: 1
58:14
up with it. There’s also this very bizarre arrogance of people that were certain that Kamala Harris was gonna win. Like, I’m I’m sure you’ve seen the viral video of this lady who’s a political analyst who talks about going to the liquor store and buying a bottle of champagne.
Speaker: 0
58:29
Oh, right. I saw that. Yeah. Right. Right.
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58:31
I don’t wanna show it because the poor lady can’t get rid of it. She’s probably living in hell right now.
Speaker: 0
58:34
But I’m I’m Blue Sky. I’m Blue Sky.
Speaker: 1
58:37
She’s probably on Blue Sky. She might be on well, she was on X. I think she deleted her profile.
Speaker: 0
58:41
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
58:41
But, the poor lady, I mean, she but she was being very arrogant, and she laughed and mocked this man and said, you do realize you wasted your vote. Right?
Speaker: 0
58:50
That’s right. That’s right. That’s right.
Speaker: 1
58:52
That’s right. And she laughed, which makes her hard to feel sorry for.
Speaker: 0
58:54
That’s right.
Speaker: 1
58:55
It’s like you were you were ready to mock this man. Yes. But in her eyes, it was all about reproductive freedom. Yeah. And she thought that that was under attack under the Trump administration and that women are gonna stand up and they’re gonna stop that because in her echo chamber, that was the case.
Speaker: 1
59:10
Yeah. Everybody was universally they all agreed. We’re universally on board with this idea that Trump is evil. We gotta get rid of him and women are gonna vote and this is gonna be fun. But, like, who
Speaker: 2
59:19
are you
Speaker: 1
59:19
hanging out with, lady? Yeah. You know? And you could hang out with a bunch of people that think baseball’s awesome. Yeah. And then, you know, you run into someone from another country, like, what the fuck is baseball? Like, you gotta realize, there’s a lot of people out there.
Speaker: 0
59:29
Yeah. And people really don’t like being talked down too.
Speaker: 1
59:32
They really don’t. And they don’t like you mocking the fact that first of all, nobody wasted their vote. Like, that’s not how it goes. Right. Like, you don’t waste your vote if you vote different and the other side wins. It’s not how the other side won. That’s how it is. Right.
Speaker: 1
59:45
Like, wasting the vote is a crazy way to look at it. Like because I think also people look at things like tribal games. You know, like, you know, Texas is a huge football state, and people love football. And it’s always we this, we that. When UT plays South Carolina, we this, we that. It’s like people love to be a part of a team that’s winning. Right.
Speaker: 1
01:00:08
And they apply that, especially if they’re not into sports, to other things. I think it’s just a war mentality. It’s a tribal war mentality that’s been sort of subverted in the human mind and applied to other things. It could be like Microsoft versus Apple. You know, it could be Android versus Apple, you know, iOS.
Speaker: 1
01:00:26
It’s weird how people get so tribal and then connect their own personal identity to other people agreeing with these ideas that they that they believe.
Speaker: 0
01:00:37
Yeah. Yeah. I I don’t have for 2 2 2 thoughts. 1 is, the Democrats for a long time were the big tent party. So the Democrats were the coalition of people who had very different points of view on things. And, of course, you know, famously, it’s all the different identity groups and it’s all the different, you know, economic and unions and all these things.
Speaker: 0
01:00:50
And Republicans were like the party of, like, rigidity. Right? Mhmm. And just for whatever set of a lot of the woke stuff had a lot to do with it as it flipped to where, at least today, Trump’s Republican party is the big ten party. Yeah. And to your point on having all these new people, and many of whom are former Democrats. A lot of them.
Speaker: 0
01:01:04
And and the Democrats have decided to try to isolate out anybody, right, who disagrees on any on any issue and demand, right, lockstep conformity through the the cancellation process. And so that that’s a very interesting inversion that happened kind of without anybody saying anything about it, but it it it did happen.
Speaker: 0
01:01:18
And then I think the other the other inversion was the economic inversion, which is remember the criticism of the Republican party for a long time was it was the party of trickle down economics.
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01:01:26
Yes.
Speaker: 0
01:01:26
Where the idea was the rich people are gonna get all the money because they cut taxes, the administration. And then, basically, if poor people get any money, it’s gonna be because the rich people, like, trickle trickle some down. Right. I think that inverted to where the Democrats, especially in the last 4 years, became the trickle down party, which was we’re gonna tax, and we’re gonna collect all the money and give it to the government, and then we’re gonna let the government hand it out.
Speaker: 1
01:01:43
Right. But they did it under the guise of tax the rich.
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01:01:46
They did it.
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01:01:46
But then did it with this Robinhood mentality. At least they expressed that
Speaker: 0
01:01:50
Of course. That’s how it starts, but then you end up with $35,000,000,000 federal debt debt. You end up with this giant annual deficit, and then you end up with all this money being handed out. Right? Handed out in all these grants and all these things. Like, just this there’s, like, shower of money coming from the government.
Speaker: 0
01:02:04
But, of course, if the government’s giving you money, it also means the government can take money away. Right? Like Right. You’re making somebody dependent on you because you’re giving them money, then you’re in a you have a tremendous position of power because you can make their life horrible by by pulling the money away.
Speaker: 1
01:02:15
Right. You you can also control their ideology that way.
Speaker: 0
01:02:18
100%. Yeah. You you own them. Like, it’s it’s it’s actually a form you know, it’s it’s it’s on the it’s it’s on the spectrum to a form of, like, domination. Right. You know, this should make us very uncomfortable. And so the and and, you know, maybe that would be fine if the debt if the debt and the deficit didn’t out of control and inflation didn’t get out of control, but it did.
Speaker: 0
01:02:34
And then at that point, it’s like, okay. Like, this this new kind of sort of tax and spend driven trickle down economics is clearly not sustainable. It’s not going to work.
Speaker: 1
01:02:42
So the way the Trump administration is going to approach the economy, they want less regulation. Mhmm. They want tariffs and less regulation, and they want more more reliance on US energy.
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01:02:54
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:02:54
Right? They wanna drill more more natural gas, more fracking, more drilling for oil, and then, allow companies to to work without regulations inhibiting their performance. This will boost the economy. You’ll have more productivity. You have more American manufacturing. You have more things happening.
Speaker: 0
01:03:14
Yeah. So the the two headline things you hear from them when whenever they talk about this, 2 headline things are number 1, growth. You just need faster growth. But by the way, it’s the only way to resolve the long term fiscal situation. It’s the only way to resolve the debt. There’s only 2 ways to do it.
Speaker: 0
01:03:26
You can inflate your way out of it and end up in 19 thirties Germany with hyperinflation. Like, that that’s one track you can get on, which is a very bad track, and you don’t wanna go there. Or you can grow faster. Because if you grow faster, then your your economy can catch up to the debt, and you can you can pay down the debt as as you grow.
Speaker: 0
01:03:40
And so they they wanna go for a higher rate of growth. And then the other thing is they want America to win. And this you know, my my partner, Ben, and I were able to spend time with Trump this summer, and that was, like, his, like, adamant thing he kept going back, which is like, look.
Speaker: 0
01:03:50
America has to win. And and, specifically, what that means is America has to win in business and in technology and in industry generally globally. Like, our company should be the ones that win these, you know, broad we should win global markets. Like, our our company should be should be the global
Speaker: 1
01:04:04
How could anybody be against that?
Speaker: 0
01:04:06
I happen to think that makes a lot of sense. Yes.
Speaker: 1
01:04:09
I know. I mean, obviously, you’re a wealthy man, and I am as well. But it’s like, how could you not want that?
Speaker: 0
01:04:16
Yes. By the way, if you are in favor of a, high level of social support, if you want there to be lots of welfare programs and food assistance programs, all these things, I I I would argue you also want that because it’s the growth that will pay for all the social programs. Right? Like, that’s how you square the circle.
Speaker: 0
01:04:30
That’s how you actually have your cake and eat it too, which is, like, first, you you your economy just generates a fountain of money through through growth and economic economic success, and then you you can pay for and you can pay for whatever programs you want. I actually don’t Personally, like, I I I’m totally fine. Like, set up all the programs you want, all the social spending you want, all the safety nets you want.
Speaker: 0
01:04:46
And if as long as it’s easy to pay for it because you’re growing so fast, then everybody wins.
Speaker: 1
01:04:51
Yeah. I mean, I’ve always
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01:04:52
said if I knew that I paid more taxes, people in the
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01:04:52
world, in this country, would live better. I would do it. Right. Of course. I just I just don’t believe that they’re good at spending it. That’s the thing. Right? It’s it’s like if if you’re
Speaker: 0
01:04:57
putting in this if you’ve generated
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01:04:58
35,000,000,000,000 of debt and these are the
Speaker: 0
01:05:00
results Yeah. Yep. Like, this this is not the deal. And then this is my the my my friend that I talked about earlier. That that was the point he made. It’s just like, look. The the the deal has been broken. Like, this is this is not the deal anybody signed up for. This is not how it’s supposed to work. Everybody knows it.
Speaker: 1
01:05:17
And when you were talking about giving people social programs and giving them benefits and then you could take that away at any moment. This was one of the big fears that people had about letting illegal immigrants into the country and moving them to swing states, which clearly happened, and also giving them a bunch of benefits, which clearly happened.
Speaker: 1
01:05:39
Money, food stamps, housing, all that happened. Stuff that wasn’t available to veterans, stuff that wasn’t available to homeless people, wasn’t available to the very poor of this country, all of a sudden people who came here illegally got those things. Right.
Speaker: 0
01:05:51
That’s right.
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01:05:51
And the thought was, if you gave these people these things and you gave them a way better life look. If I was living in a 3rd world country with a family and I knew that I could come to America and I could get a job, an actual job, and make money and my family’s gonna definitely eat
Speaker: 0
01:06:07
Right.
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01:06:07
I’ll vote for whoever the fuck you want me to vote for. I don’t care. Right. My life is infinitely better than it was in this totalitarian shithole
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01:06:16
that
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01:06:17
I was in until I walked here. I’ll do whatever you want. Right.
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01:06:20
Like, I
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01:06:20
just want my family to survive, and I think everything’s gonna it’s so much better than where I was if I’m in some war torn part of the world. It’s so much better here.
Speaker: 0
01:06:29
Right.
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01:06:29
I don’t care if the Democrats win or the Republicans. I’m in America.
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01:06:33
Right.
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01:06:34
And if the Republicans didn’t give me any money Right.
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01:06:36
And
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01:06:36
they wanna get me out. Right. They wanna deport me. Right. But this nice lady
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01:06:40
Right.
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01:06:40
She gave me an EBT card. Right. Right. And I’m staying at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City.
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01:06:45
Right. And
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01:06:45
I can get a flight somewhere else if I wanna go there? Right. Oh, this is wonderful.
Speaker: 0
01:06:49
Right. So that’s how it starts, and there is a lot of that going on. On. But I I will say what’s one of the things that’s interesting is it doesn’t necessarily stick that way. And, the the the sort of evidence for that is the rapid ramp the sort of dramatic ramp up in the Hispanic vote, for Trump.
Speaker: 1
01:07:01
Well, Hispanic people generally are very hard workers.
Speaker: 0
01:07:05
So so this gets this gets to the thing. So I I was just a quick story on this. So, after the the the the night after the 2016 election, like, literally, everybody I knew was just, like, completely traumatized. Like, we were all just, like, completely freaked out. Everybody was shocked.
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01:07:16
You were
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01:07:16
freaked out yet?
Speaker: 0
01:07:17
I was completely freaked out. Yeah.
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01:07:18
Everybody was
Speaker: 0
01:07:18
freaked out. Like, I didn’t expect him to win the nomination. I didn’t expect him to win the the the race. Like and then, you know, and the media is on, like, full historical blast, and it’s the end of the world. And he’s, you know, he’s a Russian spy. All this crazy stuff that we now know not to be true is just, like, it’s just, like, full on.
Speaker: 0
01:07:30
So a group of us a group of us went out to dinner at a restaurant in Palo Alto. And, you know, to to and the atmosphere was like a funeral. I mean, like, everybody in the restaurant was just, like, despondent, like, ready to ready to slit their wrists. And so we’re we’re sitting there eating, and, like, the food doesn’t taste good. You know, it’s just, like, can’t taste the food. You can’t taste the drinks.
Speaker: 0
01:07:44
Like, everybody’s just depressed. Wow. And, you know, it gets this thing of, like, you know, my you know, my god. I can’t believe that, you know, Trump you know, this, that. You know?
Speaker: 0
01:07:50
So if you see, you know, you know, racist and, you know, anti Hispanic and all this stuff. And it was it was it was one of those moments where the the the young waiter who’s, you know, Hispanic young man in in his twenties, one of those rare moments where he broke into the conversation at the table.
Speaker: 0
01:08:02
Right? But but it was in context. It was like, oh, thank god, because, like, we’re just we’re just depressing ourselves to death. So, like, thank god he’s gonna say something. And he said, you know, I think you guys are looking at it all wrong.
Speaker: 0
01:08:11
He’s like, my father thinks Trump is fantastic. It is my father came here as an immigrant, whatever, 30 years ago, built a life here, became a citizen, bought into the system, pays taxes, like, raised a family.
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01:08:21
Mowing his lawn with
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01:08:21
a MAGA hat on. He he thinks this guy he thinks this guy is great. He thinks this guy is fantastic, and he voted for him. And he just has and and and and and then, you know, you’ve you’ve heard this before, but then it’s like and and the the thing that this guy said, the thing my father thinks is is terrible is if other people are able to come here, they’re able to cut in line.
Speaker: 0
01:08:37
They, you know, they didn’t have to go through the process. They didn’t have to prove anything. They’re not bought into system. Right? They’re they’re they’re able to jump in, and then they they, you know, they don’t you know, and then they’re not buying into the system.
Speaker: 0
01:08:46
And, you know, part of it maybe they’re not being accepted, but also part of it is they’re they’re not buying in. They’re not they’re, you know, they’re not they’re not assimilating. They’re not becoming part of the, you know, of what makes America America. And, you know, in some case and by the way, in some cases, you know, the criminals are coming across and terrorists are coming across and gangs.
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01:09:00
Yes.
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01:09:00
And and it’s like my father’s not in favor of any
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01:09:02
of that.
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01:09:03
Right.
Speaker: 0
01:09:03
Right? My father wants to be a part of a of a great society, of a great America, not some dysfunctional, you know, basically just disaster zone. And I I remember the the group of us. It was my my first glimmer of, like, okay. I I need to, like, completely rethink my whole sense of, like, how the world works because
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01:09:17
one conversation? Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:09:18
Yeah. Well, it was it was weird because it was like so so what happened with me is, like, I grew so I grew up in rural Wisconsin, which is now, like, completely Trump country. And so from, like, 0 to 18, like, I completely understood the mentality, and I was always, like, explaining to my friends of, like, no. No.
Speaker: 0
01:09:30
Like, this is, you know, this this is, like, a different place, and people think differently. Then somehow between the ages of, like, 1840 or whatever, I just, like, forgot. And I I became a Californian. Right? I became a I became a fully assimilated Californian, and I was just like, well, of course, the Californians are much more sophisticated in advance than, right, than people you know, where I came from.
Speaker: 0
01:09:45
And so of course Right.
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01:09:46
Of course.
Speaker: 0
01:09:47
Of course, everybody in California has it figured out, and, of course, California is gonna leave leave the country in in in all this thinking. Right? And and and Trump was for me, Trump was the Trump 6 2016 was the wake up call of, like, no. No. No. No. Like, that’s just, like, completely that that is such an impoverished worldview of how this country works and of how people think.
Speaker: 0
01:10:02
But it it doesn’t explain what you because you have to explain what happened, and then you have to, like if you have, what, some sense of being able to predict what’s next, which is what I’m supposed to be doing for a living. You know? You know? It’s what investing is supposed to be. It’s like, okay.
Speaker: 0
01:10:13
I I gotta rebuild my entire model of the world, for, like, how how how this all works and how how this whole system, how this country works. But it was that conversation that that kick started it for me.
Speaker: 1
01:10:22
So what was the process of altering your perspective or at least opening it up?
Speaker: 0
01:10:28
Yeah. So for me, it was primarily, it was reading. And so I I started to actually read my way back in history. And I went when I actually went all the way back, I tried to read of, like, where where the origins of, like, left wing thought came from and then communism and how did that evolve.
Speaker: 0
01:10:39
And then, you know, liberal democracy and then also right wing thought and, like, you know, everybody’s calling everybody fascist now. So, like, what was fascism?
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01:10:45
Right.
Speaker: 0
01:10:46
Is that what this is? Right? How how did how did the Germans do with it? You know? So all all of those questions. And then, you know, kind of converging on in the last 80 years, like, how is that, you know, either stabilized or not stabilized? And so I did that. But the other thing is I just started talking to a lot more people.
Speaker: 0
01:10:59
And I I just stopped assuming that because I read it in the New York Times that it was true. And, you know, and and and by the way and then, of course, what unfolded in the years, you know, kind of sense was, you know, the the whole I followed the whole Russiagate thing, like, super closely.
Speaker: 0
01:11:10
Like, I read everything, and I read all the reports.
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01:11:12
What did you think initially? Did you think it
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01:11:13
was true?
Speaker: 0
01:11:14
It’s because it’s, like, this overwhelming consensus from the entire expert class that, of course, he’s a Russian spy. I sat on stage. I went to Hillary’s first, post election loss speech, which she gave at Stanford, the very first one. And I sat we we know the people organizing it, so we sat literally, like, 15 feet from from from Hillary in her in her first appearance.
Speaker: 0
01:11:29
And so, you know, the whole thing is fraught with just, like, incredible tension because and Right. And the Russia gay stuff is in full full blown full blown display, and I and I go there. And I’m I’m like, alright. This is gonna mean to me. And, you know, the and the audience is Stanford audience, and so it’s all a 100% Hillary Clinton supporters. Right.
Speaker: 0
01:11:42
And I and I’m sitting there, and I’m on my I’m on my best behavior because I’m with my wife, and I have to, like, not, you know, I have to not act out. And and Hillary gets up there, and she says Trump is only president today because Vladimir Putin hacked Facebook and and made him the president. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:11:55
And I’m sitting in the audience, and I’m, like, on the Facebook board. And I’m like, that’s not, like, that’s not true. And I know for an absolute fact that that’s not true. Right? And so that got me thinking, and then the Russiagate stuff unspooled.
Speaker: 0
01:12:08
And I was like, you know, the whole the the the the steel dossier and, like, all this stuff comes out.
Speaker: 1
01:12:12
What was the accusations about Facebook? How did she think that Russia hacked Facebook and made Trump the president?
Speaker: 0
01:12:19
Yeah. So it’s this whole thing with it’s just I remember this whole thing Cambridge Analytica. And so it’s it’s this whole thing that there was this basically, there was this data there was this theory, which by the way is, like, completely it is, like, a completely fake thing.
Speaker: 0
01:12:28
Like, this didn’t the so there was this day there was this there was this dataset on user behavior that in theory, there’s academic there’s a theory that you could sort of impute human behavior from this dataset, and then you could use it to predict what people would do and how they would react to different kinds of messages.
Speaker: 0
01:12:42
And there was, like, this, like, magical breakthrough in basically thought control. And then there was this company called Cambridge Analytica in the UK that figured out a way to do this, and then it was this, like, new kind of literally, like, mind control, like, you know, by far, like, the most powerful meme weapon of all time for getting people to vote the way that the way that you want.
Speaker: 0
01:12:59
And it was this data breach at face. The whole thing was weird because Facebook had been criticized for a decade leading up to 2016 that it kept all the data closed. Right? So the criticism was Facebook never lets any of the data. It doesn’t share the data. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:13:10
And then the criticism for years was Facebook is the Roach motel of data, and the virtuous thing for it to do is to actually free the data and and and let everybody else have access to the data. And then in 2016, like, flipped 180 degrees, and it was Facebook as the most evil company of all time because it it let Cambridge Analytica get access to this data.
Speaker: 0
01:13:26
And then Russia ran basically a psychological operation on the American citizens using Why
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01:13:29
didn’t Facebook push back?
Speaker: 0
01:13:31
They did early. It’s just this. They they they did early on. They do today in their way, but, you know, they’re trying to run a business. They’re trying to get to the next quarter. They’re trying to keep the employee base and everybody copacetic. They’re trying not to get just completely destroyed by the politicians.
Speaker: 0
01:13:45
They’re getting slammed every single day on every conceivable issue you can imagine. And it’s actually very interesting. When you’re in when you’re in these companies, like, these these big issues are big issues, but you’re also literally trying to, like, make the quarter. Right? You’re you’re Right.
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01:13:57
You’re trying to ship your products. You’re trying to close your sales. You’re trying to keep your employees from quitting. Right? You you have these act you have responsibilities. Right?
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01:14:04
You have practical concern responsibilities. And so sometimes these companies get kinda wedged because they can’t do the things that they would do if they were just in damage control mode. And then they right. And then they, you know, then they and maybe the the message doesn’t get out.
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01:14:15
But So what was the bigger shift, the waiter or the Hillary speech?
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01:14:19
It was the waiter. I mean, by that, it was the the waiter was the much bigger shift because it was listening to a normal it was listening to a person with their feet on the ground actually explaining the way the world worked. Whereas with Hillary, it was it was cope. Right? It was it was delusion. She then it was it was amazing, by the way.
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01:14:32
She then spent the next hour and a half. When when I when I when I’m in a place where I don’t know if I’m gonna control myself, I bring a little notepad along because I can work out my demons, like, on
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01:14:40
Draw dicks.
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01:14:40
Noteticks. Exactly. So that I don’t so that I don’t say anything.
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01:14:44
Right? Like, super bad.
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01:14:45
So I brought my little notepad along. Exactly. My little pen little Fisher’s face pen. Right? And I I pull it out. And I started making a list of all of the people and organizations that she blamed for her defeat that were not named Hillary Clinton. And I got to 20. My favorite was Netflix, by the way. Netflix? She blamed Netflix.
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01:15:02
What did Netflix do?
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01:15:03
Netflix aired anti Clinton documentaries. Oh. And this is facts.
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01:15:03
Well, this is between facts. Well, this is particularly funny because the CEO of Netflix is a famous democratizer super democrat democrat mister. Well, not actually, dead, but also specifically Reed Reed Reed Hastings and his wife are are very enthusiastic, left wingers. But, I mean, it was just this litany of, you know, basically excuses and complaints, right, with no sense of, like, responsibility personal responsibility at all.
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01:15:28
You know, just like a pure grievance. And Wow. So it was the it was negative lesson. Like, okay. Like, whatever that is is not the path.
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01:15:35
Like
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01:15:35
Did she blame Comey? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
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01:15:38
Oh, yeah. She absolutely hated that guy. Yeah. No question.
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01:15:40
That was a wild one.
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01:15:41
100%. Yeah. Exactly. And by the way, like, that was super weird. Yeah. You know, I don’t think she was completely wrong.
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01:15:46
I I don’t understand that one. Yeah. Honestly, if they didn’t want Trump to win, I don’t get that one.
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01:15:51
Well, she’s she’s we know she’s guilty, but we’re not gonna charge her
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01:15:54
Right.
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01:15:55
Is a weird That’s crazy. Is a weird message to
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01:15:57
say.
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01:15:57
Almost as weird as the Biden one
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01:15:59
Yeah.
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01:15:59
Where we don’t think he’s competent to stand trial for the documents that he had that were classified.
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01:16:05
Exactly.
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01:16:05
But he can, what, have his finger on the button? The fuck are you talking about?
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01:16:09
Exactly. We know we know he’s guilty, but we never convict him because the jury would say that he’s a senile old man.
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01:16:14
Which is crazy because he’s still running for president at the time. He’s running for reelection.
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01:16:18
Well, then remember, everybody at the time said the media had said that the the prosecutor was lying. Right? Because if we at that point sharp as a tack. Sharp as a tack. Exact
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01:16:26
My favorite is Joe Scarborough. Yes. This is the best Biden intellectually, the best one I’ve ever seen. Like, dude. Yes. And then meanwhile, he had to go to Mar a Lago and kiss the ring.
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01:16:36
Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. My favorite was the, remember the about about earlier this year was the invention of the term cheap fake?
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01:16:44
Cheap fake.
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01:16:45
Yes. Because everybody’s worried about the AI deep fake, which really didn’t then there was really nothing nothing happened to that. And so the the cheap fake we learned is a video that just simply shows you something. Right. Right. That that it’s claimed to be out of context, but it actually turns out that it’s actually just telling you the truth.
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01:16:58
She didn’t Nancy Pelosi start using that one? Cheap fake?
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01:17:01
Yeah. Exactly. Because the theory was it was gonna be clips out of context. Yeah. But it turned out there were clips in context.
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01:17:06
Have you seen there’s a gentleman who made a video. Here, I’ll send it to you, Jamie, because I sent this to Duncan. It’s pretty fucking crazy of what AI is capable of now by, come on. On my phone updated, you son of a bitch. Come on. Don’t make me go to a fucking Android because I will.
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01:17:26
This guy did this insane video where it’s all completely AI, and everything he did, including his voice, it’s here. I’ll send it to you, Jamie. It’s 100 percent AI generated, and it’s so hard to believe because it’s so good. Yep. And it really puts you in this when you’re talking about cheap fake I just sent it to you, Jim. Cheap fakes and deep fakes.
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01:17:56
Let’s put the headphones on to watch this because it’s so crazy. We’re at that moment where you cannot tell.
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01:18:02
Right.
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01:18:02
And let’s look at this one because it’s it’s pretty extraordinary. This is the best version that I’ve seen so far. This is completely AI.
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01:18:11
Labs to speak like me. 1 of our companies.
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01:18:13
So I
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01:18:13
can input any text and will sound like me. Then I trained, HeyGen with a video of mine. I input the audio file to generate a video based on my text. The video you are watching right now is the result 100% generated in AI. What do you think of that? Guys, I know this might sound
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01:18:35
crazy, but this
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01:18:36
How crazy is that? Oh. That’s your company? That’s him.
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01:18:39
Oh, that’s him. Yeah. Yeah.
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01:18:40
That is that’s the AI generated. Yeah.
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01:18:42
Yeah. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. So it’s 2 companies. One of one of them is the voice is ours, and then it’s another great company called HeyGen that did the did the visuals. But yeah. No. That’s right.
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01:18:50
That’s nuts.
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01:18:50
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is part of the 1st Internet do as I’ve said, 1st Internet election. Probably the 1st Internet election will be the one that has this kind of thing actually in it where people get tricked.
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01:18:58
Why didn’t they do that with Kamala Harris?
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01:18:59
Well, because it turns out they They
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01:19:01
would’ve done an amazing job. They would’ve, like, really knocked it out of the park with a solid speech. They didn’t yeah. Just have her say it on the Internet.
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01:19:07
Yes.
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01:19:07
Just have a bunch of viral videos of her speaking so eloquently and perfectly.
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01:19:11
One would think. Exactly.
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01:19:12
That’s the fear of the future. Right?
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01:19:13
Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, I think that’s that’s gonna be the kind that’s gonna be the kind of thing that’s gonna happen in terms of, like, the dirty trick side. I I think that, you know, that will be a part of it. Right? There there’s there’s always some way to try to try to gain these things.
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01:19:22
Just have the most brilliant writers formulate you know, get AI to do it. Like, you’re saying, like, AI has all these solutions to things Yeah. That are super logical.
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01:19:30
Yeah.
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01:19:30
And well, there’s no, like, weird thinking in it. So, like, you know, cut all the fat out.
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01:19:35
So I think we have a theory on how to fix this. And the theory basically is we’re gonna have to switch our sense of what’s real from basically just trying to eyeball and figure out whether it’s real to only taking seriously the things that we know are real. And the way that we would know things are real is we’ll have them register registered on the blockchain. Right?
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01:19:50
And so I I I think the way this is gonna work in the future is every politician will have a an account on a on a blockchain service, like a a crypto a crypto service. And then every politician, whenever they say anything in public, whenever they’re bit you know, they’re gonna have people around them with cameras all the time, whenever they put out a statement, they’re gonna cryptographically sign it, on the blockchain so that it can be validated that it is actually content from them.
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01:20:11
And then I think we’re just gonna have to reach an understanding that we’re just gonna have to write off everything else that we see. Wow. Which frankly is a good idea anyway, because there just is a lot of noise, you know, in the environment.
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01:20:20
There’s How would you integrate that with social media though? Because one of the one of the issues is these low information voters that are getting information either from clickbait headlines on these websites Yep. Where they they don’t even read the actual paragraph with my which might be completely different than the headline itself. The headline is just inflammatory. Okay. And then viral videos.
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01:20:42
Right. Like, how would you so So the thing is
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01:20:45
so that’s so that’s already happening even pre AI. Right? And so I would say that’s that’s a preexisting problem. And so, like, we can’t we, you know, we can’t and by the way, that’s been happening for a long time. Like, new newspapers have been scandal sheets forever. If you go back 100 of if you go back 100 of years to the first newspapers, they were running all kinds of scrollers.
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01:21:00
The first newspaper was a scandal sheet of the Vatican. Like, in the year 1500, it was all these, like, terrible rumors about, like, the pope and the bishops and all these the cardinals and all
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01:21:07
these That was the
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01:21:08
first newspaper? That was the very first newspaper was in the Vatican. And then the America all the American colonial newspapers were like that, in the in the revolutionary era. It was all crazy rumors and innuendo and people accusing each other of there was a famous election in 1800, which was Jefferson versus Adams that we think of as these, like, super upstanding, you know, upright people.
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01:21:24
And they’re just, like, smearing the crap out of each other in their respective newspapers. Right? Because they would actually own newspapers in those days and
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01:21:30
then just, like Oh, god.
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01:21:31
Attack each other.
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01:21:32
More things change.
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01:21:33
Ben Franklin Ben Franklin Ben Franklin, you know, printed newspapers before he became a, became went a government, and he, created 15 different sock puppets. He created 15 different pseudonyms. He was he was a sued, or an anon. And then he would basically have them argue with each other in his newspaper without telling people that it was all him.
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01:21:52
Oh, Ben.
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01:21:53
So he had all these different personalities. And so, like, we’ve been in a world of, like, information warfare for a very long time. We’ve been in a world of sensationalist, you know, nightly news. If it if it it was a if it bleeds, it leads. Yes. You know, sensationalist stuff for a long time. We’ve been in the world of, like, yeah, prop propaganda for a long time.
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01:22:08
So so that, you know, that that you’re not gonna fit you’re never gonna make that go
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01:22:12
away.
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01:22:13
Funny that we don’t think of the past like that? Oh, yeah. We assume being virtuous and
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01:22:17
We assume they had it all figured out. Yeah. Yeah. That that very much is not true. There there’s all kinds of crazy crazy banana stuff. My favorite is in the Vietnam War. What was it was the, the Gulf of Tonkin
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01:22:26
Mhmm. That
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01:22:26
sort of kicked off the sort of big escalation of it. Like, we now know for a fact it didn’t happen.
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01:22:30
Right. But
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01:22:30
the whole thing just didn’t happen, and now there’s this big debate about, like, did they know it didn’t happen, or did, you know, did they fake you would fake it? But, like so there’s always been stuff like that in history. So that, we can’t fix. And and AI will be a new way to do that kind of thing.
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01:22:42
But what we can do is we can re reorient people to say, okay. Now you’re gonna have to, like, take seriously this stuff is real. And if you wanna actually know what’s happening, this stuff is real, and we can prove that it’s real. And if it’s not, it’s entertainment, and you can choose to believe it or not. Right. But but but you you should not rely on it. And look.
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01:22:56
It’s not gonna be perfect, and it’s gonna take time. But there is there is a way to address this.
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01:23:00
Okay. So that would be the solution to deep fakes the blockchain. Yeah.
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01:23:05
You flip it. You flip it. Yeah. You can focus on the real stuff.
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01:23:08
That’s logical. Yeah. That actually does make sense. So that that actually kinda gives me hope. I do generally have hope. Even though I I look at the pessimistic side of things, I’m generally optimistic. Yeah. Because my real feeling about human beings is most people are good.
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01:23:22
I genuinely believe there’s far more good people in the world than bad people. There’s far more people that just wanna live a good life and have a good time and enjoy themselves Yeah. Than there are people who are tyrants.
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01:23:33
Yeah. I’m super optimistic. I I’m incredibly optimistic. And I I was optimistic already with flashes of pessimism, but, like, I’m really optimistic and especially now. So I I think this is gonna be we have the real we have the real potential here for golden age.
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01:23:46
We really do.
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01:23:46
We really do. Yeah. The capabilities that we have and the people that we I mean, look in my day job, I meet these young you know, I meet these 22 year olds every day that are just like the smartest people in the world, the smartest people I’ve ever met. I think they’re getting better, by the way, as time passes.
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01:23:59
They’re by the time they’re 22, they just know a
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01:24:02
lot more. They’re a
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01:24:02
lot They have so much more access to information than we did. Yeah.
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01:24:04
There’s so much better train capable and ready to go. Yeah. Fired up. And they know each other. They’re able to connect online, and they’re they’re already in communities, and they know how to help each other. And so, like yeah, the the the the productive and inventive creative, you know, aspect particularly of this country is just, like, there’s never been anything like it in the world.
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01:24:23
I think there’s also the real potential for a shift in perspective, a positive patriotic shift in perspective that can happen in this country. And if you think about, what happened with the woke ideology, how it swept so quickly over the country and changed so many aspects of the way we deal with things socially.
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01:24:41
It happened so radically and so quickly in such a large change that people are susceptible to change. It’s possible to to enact change and a positive change in a good direction where people are optimistic about the future, which you are and I am, I mean, I think that’s probably contagious.
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01:25:01
Yeah. That’s right. Exactly.
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01:25:02
I really do think that.
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01:25:03
It’s an it’s an upward spiral. Right?
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01:25:04
It was Evan Hayford who said that thing about psychology the other day. It was one of it is a friend of mine who’s a a former special forces guy. He said that psychology is more contagious than the flu.
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01:25:17
Right. Right. Exactly. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s right. So one of the interesting things that’s gonna happen right now you know, we talked a lot about Trump’s victory and Republicans, but there’s now a civil war that’s kicked off inside the Democratic party, which is very interesting because Really?
Speaker: 0
01:25:30
They well, because they lost so badly. Right? So they they the fact that they lost the White House and they lost the popular vote and they lost the congress and they lost the senate and they lost the Supreme Court. Right. Like, this time, it’s undeniable that, like, the the the current path that they’ve been on is not working.
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01:25:43
Like, it’s your like, being an exclusionary party and kicking people out for wrong thing, like, it it’s not they’re not gonna win elections.
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01:25:48
They’re not just kicking people out. They’re barring people from making it to the primaries Yes. Exactly. Which is very undemocratic.
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01:25:53
That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. Exactly. Well, starting with Bernie in in 2016 and then right continuing.
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01:25:57
So Donna Rice’s book, she documented that.
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01:26:00
Right. Right. And so so, like, the the the I would say the smart democrats know that this is not a it’s not a viable path. You you can’t have a political party that doesn’t win. It doesn’t make it’s not it’s not useful. And so you there there’s gonna there’s a civil war that’s underway inside that party that’s kicking off right now, where they’re gonna have to recalibrate.
Speaker: 0
01:26:16
They could decide what they want their future to be, and it’s gonna be a big decision. And the same thing happened, by the way, when Reagan beat Carter really badly in in 80 and then and then and then had a landslide in 84. It then took Democrats 12 years, right, to get to Bill Clinton and to actually win again. Mhmm.
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01:26:32
And
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01:26:32
so they have this cautionary tale of they went too far in the sixties seventies, and it took them 12 years to recover. And so if you talk to the, like, really smart Democrats right now, they’re like, look. This can’t be 12 years. That’s crazy. We have to do this a lot faster, but we have to reorient, and we have to get back to common sense. We have to get back to normal.
Speaker: 0
01:26:47
We have to get back to, you know, sensible. We have to get back to moderate.
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01:26:50
We were actually playing, Bill Clinton debating
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01:26:53
Yeah.
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01:26:53
During, the elections of what what year was that, Jamie? I forget which it was when he first ran. Yeah. What you what year did he first run?
Speaker: 0
01:27:02
Oh, I yep. Oh, 92. 90 2. 92. Yeah.
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01:27:04
So it was the 90 2. And I will, like, I vote for that guy
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01:27:06
Yeah.
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01:27:07
Exactly. In a heartbeat.
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01:27:08
That was awesome. Also, we played a clip of Hillary Clinton Hillary Clinton where she sounded more MAGA than anybody who’s MAGA today. She was she was talking about the penalties that illegal immigrants should face. That’s right. They should pay a stiff fine because they came in this country illegally.
Speaker: 1
01:27:20
And if they’re a criminal, they should be jailed or kicked out of the country without question. Like, all this was, like, so MAGA.
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01:27:28
Yep.
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01:27:28
I was like, this is so wild to hear from Hillary in 2008.
Speaker: 0
01:27:31
Yep. That’s right. That’s right. And and and Hillary and Joe Biden and Dianne Feinstein, all these people wanted to build a wall. Uh-huh. That’s Dianne Feinstein, our our our senator in California at the time, very, you know, very left wing. She was down on the border, like, do photo ops in front of the wall that was being built, like, trying to take credit for it. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah.
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01:27:46
Like, 18 years ago.
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01:27:47
Yeah.
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01:27:48
And so so yeah. So another reason for optimism is I think that they’re gonna be able to pull their way back. Like, I I think they’re gonna be able I I I think getting losing this bad is very motivating to be able pull your way back and become more normal. And I think, again, that would be like I mean, how great would it be if you had 2 parties that actually had, like, sensible normal normal policies?
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01:28:06
I mean, imagine if Clinton was running up against Trump.
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01:28:08
Yes. Exactly.
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01:28:09
Like, he was so good. Right. We played that speech that he gave after Sister Sister Souljah. It said a bunch of, like, very anti white things about white people. And he gave this, like, super eloquent, but yet compassionate speech about this, where he’s very charitable about her position as being a young person and not having the the best perspective on things.
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01:28:31
It was fucking brilliant.
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01:28:32
Yeah.
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01:28:33
It was brilliant. That’s the guy. Like, that’s a president.
Speaker: 0
01:28:36
No. By modern standards, of course, he was a fascist.
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01:28:38
Yeah. Well, that’s the weird thing about fascism. Right? Because fascism by definition is almost always applied to right wing totalitarian governments. Right. But it’s really kind of just adherence to the state and enforcing a doctrine and enforcing people to think and behave which is what the left wing does.
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01:28:55
Yeah.
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01:28:55
And then you talk about, like, being pro war. Well, who’s more pro war right now? Trump or the Biden administration? Clearly, Trump Yeah. Is less pro war.
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01:29:06
Correct.
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01:29:07
Clearly, Trump wants to end the wars. Yeah. Clearly, Biden just allowed Ukraine to use long range missiles into Russia. Like, this is I don’t know what’s going on in terms of negotiations. I hear all kinds of different things. But if you looked at one side that is pushing for these wars and seems to be all in on it and the other side that’s not.
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01:29:25
Like, the fucking polar shift is so dramatic.
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01:29:29
Yeah. That’s right.
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01:29:30
It’s really weird. The the free speech thing, which was always a tenant of the left wing party. Yeah. It was like, you know, I mean, it was doctrine. Yeah. Like, free speech is necessary. It’s it’s it’s the foundation of our ability to discuss and find out what’s right and what’s wrong.
Speaker: 0
01:29:46
Right.
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01:29:46
You have to be. I mean Yeah. It’s the ADL used to let fucking Nazis speak. They used to let them march. They they would defend their right to do it. Right.
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01:29:56
Right. Yeah. Because you needed to air out the idea to be
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01:29:58
able to
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01:29:58
show why it was wrong. Exactly. Yeah. So so look. I I it was not that long ago when you had Democrats that were very much in favor of many of these extremely sensible positions.
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01:30:05
Super recent.
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01:30:06
It was pretty recent. And so I but again, reason for I don’t know if they’re gonna I don’t know if they’re gonna pull it off. They might just get they might go crazy or, like, they might just go right off the cliff. Like, it’s certainly possible. But, like, it is also possible that they’ll they’ll drag it back and it might happen quite quickly. And I’m I am hopeful and optimistic.
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01:30:19
I am as well. I think the temperature of society, like, the the mindset of society is so clearly moving away from that madness that they’re gonna have to course
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01:30:29
correct,
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01:30:30
which is just logical. There’s just no way they’re gonna keep doing it the same way or double down. It’s just not gonna it’s like they’re gonna go the way that MSNBC. They’re gonna become ridiculous. Yeah.
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01:30:39
That’s right.
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01:30:40
So they have to, which is good for everyone. For everyone.
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01:30:43
So one of my theories is, you can separate the concepts of the United States and America, and you can be very optimistic about America and have all kinds of issues with the United States, but still be positive about America. And the the the difference is the United States is the formal system of the government and the politics and all the stuff we get mad about, and America’s the people.
Speaker: 0
01:31:01
Right. Right? And so you can be as I am incredibly bullish about the people. And then it’s just a question of whether on the America part. And that’s just a question whether you can get the United States part kind of lined up to at least not prevent good things from happening and ideally help good things.
Speaker: 1
01:31:13
Well, what what are the things that you think about this administration, at least what they’re proposing Yeah. That would move us in that direction as opposed to the way things were going?
Speaker: 0
01:31:22
There’s a lot of things. I mean, so I think you gotta start with the Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency Yeah. That, you know, Elon
Speaker: 1
01:31:28
I think it’s hilarious that it just winds up being Doge. Doge. D o g e. He’s been pushing Dogecoin forever. The universe speaks. Yeah. It’s just so so many things are just so on the nose. You’re like, is the simulation real?
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01:31:41
Yes. I
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01:31:42
mean, it has to be real.
Speaker: 0
01:31:43
Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And Elon is programming it in the backroom late late at night in between playing
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01:31:48
the other game. And tweeting exactly. He’s the number 1 Diablo player in the world
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01:31:53
right now, by the way.
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01:31:53
He just got number 1, which means fucking bananas.
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01:31:56
How does
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01:31:56
he have the time to do that?
Speaker: 0
01:31:57
Which means he could be the guys during the sim the sim the simulation. Yeah. Yeah. So, look, this goes back to what we’re talking about before. Like, it just it it is time to carve this this government back in size and scope. It’s time to take the overall you know, you could talk about distribution of taxes, but it’s time to take the overall tax load down.
Speaker: 0
01:32:11
It’s time to take the spending down. It’s time to get the government out
Speaker: 1
01:32:13
of the position of deciding who gets money. It’s time to unleash economic growth. Elon explained that there’s more agencies than there have been years of the United States.
Speaker: 0
01:32:21
Yeah. 450 federal agencies, and, 2 new ones a year. And then my favorite twist is we have this thing called independent federal agencies. So, like, for example, we have this thing called the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, CFPB, which was the it’s sort of Elizabeth Warren’s personal agency that she gets to control.
Speaker: 0
01:32:36
And it’s an independent agency that just gets to run and do whatever it wants. Right? And if you read the constitution, like, there is no such thing as independent agency, and yet there it is.
Speaker: 1
01:32:45
What does her agency do? Whatever she wants. What does it do, though?
Speaker: 0
01:32:49
Basically, terrorize terrorize financial institutions, prevent fintech prevent new competition, new startups that wanna compete with the big banks. Really? Oh, yeah. 100%. How so? Just, like, terrorizing anybody who tries to do anything new in financial services, any Can you
Speaker: 1
01:33:02
give me an example?
Speaker: 0
01:33:03
I guess, you know, debanking. This is where a lot of the deb debanking comes from is the is these agencies. So debanking is when you’re you as either a person or your company are literally kicked out of the banking system.
Speaker: 1
01:33:13
Like they did to Kanye? Exactly.
Speaker: 0
01:33:14
Like they did to Kanye. My my my partner, Ben’s father, has been debanked. Really? We had an employee who For what? We, for having the wrong politics. Oh. For for saying unacceptable things. Under current banking regulations under okay. Here’s a great here’s a great thing. Under current banking regulations, after all the reforms of the last 20 years, there’s now a category called a politically exposed person, PEP.
Speaker: 0
01:33:33
And if you were a PEP, you were required by financial regulators to kick them off of your of, to kick them out of your bank.
Speaker: 2
01:33:39
You you you’re not allowed to have What if
Speaker: 1
01:33:41
you’re politically on the left?
Speaker: 0
01:33:42
Well, that that’s fine. No. Because they’re because they’re not politically exposed.
Speaker: 1
01:33:46
So no one on the left gets debanked?
Speaker: 0
01:33:48
No. I have not heard of a single instance of anyone in the left getting debanked.
Speaker: 2
01:33:50
Can you
Speaker: 1
01:33:50
tell me what the person that you know did, what what they said that got them debanked?
Speaker: 2
01:33:54
Oh, well,
Speaker: 0
01:33:54
I mean, David Horowitz is a right wing. You know, he’s pro Trump. I mean, he said all kinds of things. You know, he’s been very anti Islamic terrorism. He’s been very worried about immigration, all these things.
Speaker: 1
01:34:02
And they de banked him for the
Speaker: 0
01:34:04
They de banked him. So you get kicked out you get kicked out of your bank account. You get you get kicked out of the you can’t do credit card transactions. By the way, you can’t How is that legal? Well, exactly. So this is the thing. And so and then you go in this thing of, like, well, there’s no this is where the government and the companies get intertwined.
Speaker: 0
01:34:17
That’s your fascism point, which is, there’s no there’s a constitutional amendment that says the government can’t restrict your speech, but there’s no constitutional amendment that says the government can’t debunk you. Right? And so they if they can’t do the one thing, then they they do the other thing, and then they don’t have to debunk you.
Speaker: 0
01:34:30
They just have to put pressure on on the private company banks to do it. And then the private company banks do it because they’re expected to. But the government gets to say, we didn’t do it. It was the private company that did it. And, of course, JPMorgan can decide who they wanna have as customers, of course, right, because they’re a private company.
Speaker: 0
01:34:45
And so it’s this it’s this sleight of hand that happens. It so it’s basically it’s a privatized sanctions regime that lets bureaucrats do to American citizens the same thing that we do to Iran. Woah.
Speaker: 2
01:34:56
Just kick
Speaker: 0
01:34:56
you out of the financial system. And so the this has been happening to all the crypto entrepreneurs in the last 4 years. This has been happening to a lot of the Fintech entrepreneurs, anybody trying to start any kind of new banking service, because they’re trying to protect the big banks.
Speaker: 0
01:35:07
And then this has been happening, by the way, also in legal fields of economic activity that they don’t like. And so a lot of this started about 15 years ago with this thing called Operation Sharp Point where they decided to, as marijuana started to become legal, as prostitution started to become legal, and then guns, which there’s always a fight about.
Speaker: 0
01:35:25
Under the Obama administration, they started to de bank legal marijuana businesses, escrow businesses, and then and then and then gun shops just like your gun manufacturers. And just like you’re done, you’re out of the banking system. And so if you’re running a medical marijuana dispensary in 2012, like, you guess what?
Speaker: 0
01:35:41
You’re doing your business all in cash because you literally can’t get a bank account. You can’t get a Visa terminal. You can’t process transactions. You can’t do payroll. You can’t do direct deposit. You can’t get insurance. Like, none of that stuff is you’ve been sanctioned. Right? None of that stuff is available.
Speaker: 0
01:35:54
And then this administration extended that concept to apply it to tech founders, crypto founders, and then just generally political opponents. Oh, god. Yeah. So that’s that’s been, like, super pernicious.
Speaker: 1
01:36:05
I wasn’t aware of that.
Speaker: 0
01:36:06
Oh, a 100%. And it is called so it’s Operation Short Point 1.0 was 15 years ago against the pot and the guns. Short Point 2.0 is primarily against their political enemies and then to their disfavored tech startups. And it’s hit the tech world. Like, we’ve had hard we’ve had, like, 30 founders debanked in the last 4 years. Real? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s been a it’s been a big recurring pattern. 30.
Speaker: 0
01:36:26
This is one of the reasons why we ended up supporting Trump. It’s like we just can’t we can’t live in this world. We can’t live in a world where somebody starts a company that’s a completely legal thing, and then they literally, like, get sanctioned, right, and embargoed by the United States government through a completely unaccountable no by the way, no due process.
Speaker: 0
01:36:43
None of this is written down. There’s no rules. There’s no court. There’s no decision process. There’s no appeal. Who do you appeal to? Right?
Speaker: 0
01:36:52
Like, who do you go to to get your bank account back? Right. You know? And and then and then, you know, and then there’s there’s this and then there’s also the civil asset forfeiture side of it, which is right the other side. And that doesn’t happen to us, but that happens to people in a lot of places now who get arrested and all of a sudden, you know, the state takes their money.
Speaker: 1
01:37:07
Yes. But that happens to people if they get pulled over and they have a large amount of cash in some states.
Speaker: 2
01:37:11
Right.
Speaker: 0
01:37:11
Or, you know, there’ll be there’ve been, you know, well publicized examples of, like, you know, there was, like, you know, there’ll be some investigation into, like, you know, safe deposit boxes. And the next thing you know, the the the feds have seized all this all the contents of the state deposit Right.
Speaker: 0
01:37:23
Safe deposit boxes, and that that stuff never gets returned. And so it’s it’s this. And this is when, you know, this is when Trump says the deep state. You know, I it like, the the way we would describe it is it’s it’s administrative power. It’s it’s political power being administered not through legislation. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:37:36
So there’s no defined law that covers this. It’s not through regulation. Right? There’s nothing you can you can’t go sue a regulator to fix this. It’s not through any kind of court judgment. It’s just raw power. It’s just raw administrative power.
Speaker: 0
01:37:49
It’s the government or politicians just deciding that things are gonna be a certain way, and then they just apply pressure until they get it.
Speaker: 1
01:37:55
So what happens to those 30 tech people that you know that
Speaker: 0
01:37:58
to to go into a different field, like, try to do something different and try to Woah. Try to try to get, you
Speaker: 1
01:38:03
know Complete upending of your life.
Speaker: 0
01:38:05
Yeah. Complete upending of your life. And try to try to, yeah, try to change your try to get out of the try to get away from the eye of Sauron. Try to get out of whatever zone got you into this and keep applying for new bank accounts at different banks and hope that at some point a bank will say, you know, oh, okay.
Speaker: 0
01:38:19
You know, it’s okay. We’ve checked in. It’s now alright. Woah. But there’s no
Speaker: 1
01:38:23
So what do they do with their money? Like, what happens?
Speaker: 0
01:38:26
You yeah. I mean, you go to cash. I mean
Speaker: 1
01:38:28
You go to cash?
Speaker: 0
01:38:29
You can’t have a yeah. Do you
Speaker: 1
01:38:30
So where do you put it?
Speaker: 0
01:38:31
I don’t I don’t under your mattress. Under your mattress. Yes. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:38:36
Exactly. So insane. So if someone has $30,000,000 in the bank and they get debanked.
Speaker: 0
01:38:41
Diamonds, art, you know, do you, I don’t know, go overseas somewhere.
Speaker: 1
01:38:47
Holy shit.
Speaker: 0
01:38:48
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just like it just it just happens. And and, again, it’s really, really important. There’s no fingerprints. Like, there’s no
Speaker: 1
01:38:54
Right. There’s no person who There’s no stick above the strings.
Speaker: 0
01:38:57
Yeah. Exactly. Right. It just happened. And and we can trace it back because we understand exactly you know, we we know we know the we know the politicians involved, and we know how the agencies work, and we know how the pressure’s applied, and we know that these banks get phone calls and so forth.
Speaker: 0
01:39:08
And so we we can loosely like, we we we understand the flow of power as it happens. But when you’re on the receiving end of this, your specific instance of it, like, you can’t trace it back, and there’s nothing you can
Speaker: 1
01:39:17
do with that. These what are the instances? Like, what is the company? What are they trying to do, and how do they run afoul?
Speaker: 0
01:39:24
Well, all the crypto startups in the last, basically, 4 years. So the remember the crypto crypto thing got, like, really, you know, sort of everybody got excited and, like, NFTs and, like, all that stuff, and then it just, like, stopped. Yeah. And the reason it stopped is because, basically, every crypto founder, every crypto startup, they either got debanked personally and forced out of the industry, or their company got debanked and so it couldn’t keep operating, or they got prosecuted, charged, or they got threatened with being charged.
Speaker: 0
01:39:51
This is a fun this is a fun twist. This is a fun little twist. The the s e so the SEC sort of has been trying to kill the crypto industry under under Biden, and this has been a big issue issue for us because we’re we’re the biggest crypto crypto startup investor. The SEC can they can investigate you. They can subpoena you. They can prosecute you.
Speaker: 0
01:40:07
They can do all these things, but they don’t have to do any of those things to really damage you. All they have to do is they issue what’s called a Wells notice, and the Wells notice is a notification that you may be charged at some point in the future. Like, you’re you’re, like, on notice that you might be doing something wrong, and they might be coming after you at some point in the future. Oh my god. Okay.
Speaker: 0
01:40:25
So Terrifying. That’s the eye. The eye of Sauron is on you. Okay. Now trying to be a company with a Wells notice doing business with anybody else.
Speaker: 1
01:40:31
Oh my god. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:40:32
Try to try to work with a big company, try to get access to a bank. Try try to do anything.
Speaker: 1
01:40:36
When they support DEI initiatives and they yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:40:39
Well, then the s the SEC under Biden became a the SEC under Biden became a direct application of, exactly. So DEI, they started they did a lot with that and then ESG all the ESG stuff. And ESG is a very malleable concept, and they piled all kinds of new requirements into that.
Speaker: 0
01:40:53
So through the through this process, the SCC could basically just simply dictate what companies do with no accountability at all. Like, there’s no, you know, there’s no over there’s no over there are hearings where they get yelled at, but, like, nothing changed. Nothing ever happened in a hearing that ever changed anything. It’s just the raw application of power. Right.
Speaker: 1
01:41:11
And so And this is your friends. This has happened too.
Speaker: 0
01:41:13
Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah. And we had like I said, we had an employee who got debanked because he had crypto in his job title. He was he was doing crypto policy for us, and his bank booted him, because he, because he
Speaker: 1
01:41:22
That’s it.
Speaker: 0
01:41:23
Because they did they did a they did a screen across it’s what they told us is they did a screen across their, their customer base. And Anyone with crypto. Because because anybody with crypto became a politically exposed person because Wow. Because crypto was was politically controversial. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:41:36
That’s so You you hear this sometimes is, like, complete you know, there’s these terms, compliance, rep reputation management Yeah. Tone at the top. They have these lovely sounding terms that make it sound like everybody’s gonna be an upstanding citizen, but what they’re all what they’re all code for is destroy the enemy.
Speaker: 0
01:41:53
Like, bring the hammer of God and the bank and the government or whoever or the or the social media. Bring it down and just, like, crush the individual Wow. With no due process. And and, look, there’s an argument in the long run that this is all on with no due process. And and, look, there’s an argument in the long run that this is all
Speaker: 2
01:42:04
unconstitutional because the constitution gives us all the right to due process, and this is government
Speaker: 0
01:42:04
pressure, and there’s Right. So, like, there’s probably a supreme court case in 5 years that’s gonna find retroactively that this was all illegal. But in the moment, when you’re the guy who’s been debanked, I mean, number
Speaker: 1
01:42:17
1 And then also the potential that if you do challenge them in court and lose, the repercussions would be even heavier.
Speaker: 0
01:42:24
Exactly. Yeah. A 100%.
Speaker: 1
01:42:25
Why is it really worth your effort? Yeah. Is it worth the risk?
Speaker: 0
01:42:28
That’s right.
Speaker: 1
01:42:29
Especially if you’ve already had your life upended. You ready to do it again?
Speaker: 0
01:42:32
Yeah. That’s right. When you
Speaker: 1
01:42:33
barely built yourself back up?
Speaker: 0
01:42:34
Yeah. So this is and I think this is important context where, like, when Elon and Vivek talk about, like, reducing regulation you know, there there’s 2 ways to think about reducing regulation. It’s like, oh my god. The water in there are gonna get dirty, and it’s food’s gonna get poisoned. Right. Now some of those regulations, I think, are very important.
Speaker: 0
01:42:47
But the other way to think about it is examples like this, which is just raw government power being applied to ordinary people who are just trying to live their lives, are just trying to do something legitimate, and that they’re just on the wrong side of something that the people in power have decided.
Speaker: 1
01:43:01
Well, there’s something that isn’t illegal, but they don’t want to be done like crypto.
Speaker: 0
01:43:05
Like crypto or having the wrong political points of view. Well, the the trucker you know, the other great example is the trucker strike up in Canada
Speaker: 2
01:43:11
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:43:11
Was an even more direct version of this because here, you had truckers physically showing up, and it was something like step 1 was they take away your driver’s license, which, by the way, right, is just somebody pressing a button on the keyboard. No more driver’s license. Step 2 is I take away your insurance. And step 3 is I take away your kids. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:43:27
And so, like, that was their version of this, and that was a very specific Take away your kids. That was the threat at the end, the truckers and the Canada trucker strike. Because the truck because the trucker strike in Canada where I was gonna jam up these cities, because it was the the farmers who were the truckers were very serious.
Speaker: 0
01:43:40
They wanted to they were doing a nonviolent protest, but they wanted to stall the the cities to to be able to exert political pressure back back on the government.
Speaker: 2
01:43:47
Right.
Speaker: 0
01:43:47
And the government was like, we’ll tolerate it for a little while, then we’ll take your trucker license, then we’ll take your insurance, then we’ll take your kids.
Speaker: 1
01:43:53
And and How do they say they would take their kids?
Speaker: 0
01:43:55
Because it’s administrate it’s administrative power. Like, you can’t you you you can’t right. The theory would be you can’t let these aren’t good parents if they’re sitting in a truck in the middle of Calgary preventing, you know, goods and services from reaching people, right, putting people’s lives at risk.
Speaker: 0
01:44:07
Wow. You know, the, you know, child see child seizure. Now I don’t know if they actually see seized any kids, but it it’s just an example of there is an agency in the Canadian government just like in the US government that if they want to, they can take your kids.
Speaker: 1
01:44:18
Well, they were doing debanking there with people who donated to the trucker convoy
Speaker: 0
01:44:22
That’s right.
Speaker: 1
01:44:23
Which is even crazier.
Speaker: 0
01:44:24
That’s right.
Speaker: 1
01:44:24
Not even people who were there. People were opposed to the mandates that Trudeau’s administration was imposing on people. Yeah. And so they donated to these truckers. And then they got their bank accounts taken away Yeah. Which is really crazy.
Speaker: 0
01:44:36
Yeah. And so and and I and I exactly. And I I think that I think the right way to think about this is when we think about totalitarianism, we think about literally World War 2. You know, we think about Nazis in jack boots with, like, tanks and guns and, you know, beating people up and killing people.
Speaker: 0
01:44:50
Like, that that’s our mental and that that’s you might call it that hard totalitarianism. Right? That’s, like, very clearly, like, violent totalitarianism. But there’s this other version you might call soft totalitarianism, which is just rules and power exercised arbitrarily that just simply suppresses everything. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:45:07
And and this is speech control and de banking and all these other things that we’ve been talking about. And and that that is you know, the good news is they’re not coming up and, like, beating you up in the middle of the night. The bad news is, like, you are under their complete control, and they can do whatever they want to you that doesn’t involve physical violence, which basically includes the entire aspect of, you know, every aspect of how you actually conduct your life and support your family and get an income and everything else.
Speaker: 1
01:45:27
And most people aren’t even aware of
Speaker: 0
01:45:45
protests all got suppressed. Mhmm. Right? So you you went you know? So it’s like so the lockdown went from 2 weeks to crush the curve to 2 months to 2 years. Right. Right? Which is like, okay. What the hell? Right?
Speaker: 0
01:45:55
And then there were these protests that were there were these protests that were forming up nonviolent protests were forming up to protest lockdowns. And I you know, you could argue the issue different ways, but people have a legitimate right to protest for that just like they do for anything else.
Speaker: 0
01:46:06
And the next thing you know is all the the lockdown protests all got censored. Like, just, like, poop, gone. Right? And so at that point, like, the the normal process of being able to read to try to get redress from your government, right, for for, you know, for to to force your rights to literally, for example, see your family all of a sudden.
Speaker: 0
01:46:21
Like, you you can’t even organize a protest.
Speaker: 1
01:46:23
Do you, how much are you aware of what happened with the FTX crisis? Because one of the things that happened with the FTX thing was it was revealed that they were I think they were the number 2 donor to the Democratic Party. Yeah. Do you think that that is sort of a preemptive measure to avoid any of this debanking and, you know, be financially invested in these people so they’re not gonna come after you?
Speaker: 0
01:46:47
Yeah. That was his it was explicitly his strategy. That was Sam’s. Yeah. Sam’s approach is Sam. Sam’s approach is just pay everybody. So so Sam’s approach was just I have $8,000,000,000 of customer funds that I can use for whatever I want, right, which is the crime. Right. And then a big part of what he used some of it he used to, like, hang out with celebrities and get Tom and Giselle to endorse FTX and the Larry David commercial and all this stuff.
Speaker: 0
01:47:08
Right. But a lot of that money, something like a $1,000,000 of that money went to basically just pay politicians. And and a lot of that money was paid to politicians with no compliance at all with all the, you know, campaign finance regulations that the rest of us all have to comply with, and so the money was just shotgun out the door.
Speaker: 1
01:47:23
How come they don’t have to comply?
Speaker: 0
01:47:24
Well, it was I mean, it was illegal because he was breaking the law. I mean, it was to to be clear, he was he was illegal. Now a very funny thing happened, which is when he was indicted by the US government, they didn’t they ended up not charging him on campaign finance, fraud.
Speaker: 0
01:47:37
And and because they’d have to give all the money back? Well, so so there’s two theories on it. The thing that they said was their their extradition, agreement with Bermuda, Bermuda threatened to not extradite him if they charged him on that charge, which is, like, super weird because you’re the United Sorry.
Speaker: 0
01:47:51
Number 1, you’re the United States of America. You can probably get the guy. Number 2, did he really wanna stay in a prison in Bermuda? Right? And so so that was all weird. And then and then look.
Speaker: 0
01:47:59
The other there’s no evidence for this, but the other theory is, yeah, the whoever are the powers that be that decide these things in DC decided to not open it. It’s it’s like the Epstein client list. Like, there are certain boxes Yeah. That are better not to open at least.
Speaker: 1
01:48:11
Well, the campaign finance thing, wouldn’t they have
Speaker: 0
01:48:13
to pay it back? So then there’s this, like, panic. When the minute one of these scandals breaks like that, there’s this panic rush, and all of a sudden, politicians discover philanthropic causes they can donate the money to. Right? And then and then, yeah, in the fullness of time, the trustees might come claw the money back.
Speaker: 0
01:48:27
So, yeah, there’s a you know, it’ll it’ll it’ll play out however it does. But but it is it is interesting. It is a great example of it was the shotgunning of money into the system under, like, basically, just, like, nakedly breaking the law, and then it now look. He’s in the other argument is he’s in prison. He’s in prison already. Like, whatever. It just would have been, you know, another sentence.
Speaker: 0
01:48:45
But, like, he did break the law, and he was not actually charged on that. And the the that prosecution has not happened and and probably sitting here today never will.
Speaker: 1
01:48:52
What’s really fascinating about him is that he was right. And if they didn’t come after him, he would have gotten all that money to those people. He would it seems like it kinda turned around. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:49:04
It didn’t get him off the hook, though.
Speaker: 1
01:49:05
It didn’t. No. Well, he did some he still did something illegal.
Speaker: 0
01:49:08
He did. Yep.
Speaker: 1
01:49:09
Did he know it was illegal?
Speaker: 0
01:49:10
He is in prison. I think it’s really hard to get inside that guy’s head. Yeah. I I don’t know that I can represent his mental state.
Speaker: 2
01:49:18
He’d be
Speaker: 1
01:49:19
a fascinating podcast guest if
Speaker: 0
01:49:20
he was out. He flopped very hardly very hard at trial. Yeah. So he he had an explanation, but now it’s just the jury didn’t buy it.
Speaker: 1
01:49:30
What was his explanation?
Speaker: 0
01:49:32
That, you know, he was you know, that it was all the money was all being invested, and he was gonna give it all back. And it was all this and that. You know, it’s like and then all these complicated theories around all this effective altruism and this and that and the other thing.
Speaker: 0
01:49:41
And the prosecution is just like, it was the customer’s money. It wasn’t your money.
Speaker: 1
01:49:45
Right. What the fuck? Clearly.
Speaker: 0
01:49:46
Yeah. And so I like, I I don’t know. Like yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:49:49
Well, there’s also amphetamines involved, which definitely tend to skew your judgment. I mean, him and that lady were, like, sort of proponents of amphetamine use.
Speaker: 0
01:49:59
And they were taking there was some some anti Parkinson’s drug they were taking Woah. That has a side effect of, reducing your your risk Oh,
Speaker: 1
01:50:06
dopamine agonists.
Speaker: 0
01:50:07
Yeah. One of those.
Speaker: 1
01:50:07
Yeah. Like, Reequip.
Speaker: 0
01:50:08
Yeah. Something like that. They were he had these patches. He he was he was taking these patches.
Speaker: 1
01:50:12
That makes you do wild shit. That also makes people gamble. Yeah. Gamble.
Speaker: 0
01:50:14
Yeah. Exact well yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:50:16
Yeah. There was a guy who won a lawsuit from Galaxo Smith Glynd because he took Reequip and became a gay sex and gambling addict. Yeah. I think they paid him the equivalent of, like, 500 +1000 American dollars. I believe it was in Ireland. Yeah. Yeah. Dopamine agonists are weird.
Speaker: 1
01:50:33
They they they do strange things to people.
Speaker: 0
01:50:36
If that happened to me, I would definitely sue.
Speaker: 1
01:50:38
That’s crazy that those guys were taking those things.
Speaker: 0
01:50:41
At least Sam Sam was. Oh.
Speaker: 2
01:50:43
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:50:43
Yeah. Boy, what a wild fella.
Speaker: 0
01:50:44
Yeah. MSAM.
Speaker: 1
01:50:45
Confirmed he wears an MSAM patch. What’s an MSAM patch? He’s supposed to use the depression medication. Oh, his supposed use of the depression medication had kicked up some rumors. So what is that’s the stuff? That’s the end Parkinson’s?
Speaker: 0
01:50:58
I think that was
Speaker: 2
01:50:59
Is
Speaker: 1
01:50:59
that a dopamine agonist? Does Does it say?
Speaker: 0
01:51:01
I’m not sure.
Speaker: 1
01:51:04
I’ll look it up on Yeah. See, put, dopamine agonist.
Speaker: 0
01:51:11
Yeah. Parkinson’s. There we go.
Speaker: 1
01:51:12
Yeah. Interesting.
Speaker: 0
01:51:13
So it’s like related. If it’s not that, it’s like a related
Speaker: 1
01:51:15
Interesting. How does it work? Does it say how it works? Commonly used to depression how does it work though?
Speaker: 0
01:51:26
Here we go.
Speaker: 1
01:51:28
Okay. It’s an MAO inhibitor. Interesting. Used to treat mental depression in adults, this medicine is a monoamine oxide inhibitor.
Speaker: 0
01:51:36
That’s a different
Speaker: 1
01:51:37
one that says it’s sledgene.
Speaker: 2
01:51:38
It could
Speaker: 1
01:51:38
be the same Sledgene. Similar. Oh, okay. Yeah. That’s sledgene. Sledgene is also people take that as well as a nootropic, I’ve heard.
Speaker: 0
01:51:47
Yeah. That’s what it is.
Speaker: 1
01:51:48
So it isn’t a sledge a segeline. So selegine? Sellegine? Sellegine? I think it’s selegeline. I knew a doctor who was taking that. He was taking it as a but not in a patch. He was taking it in a pill form, and he said it was a a nootropic. So monoamine oxidase inhibitors. So that’s the stuff that’s the active and that’s what, makes, Ayahuasca orally active. Same thing.
Speaker: 1
01:52:12
Monoamine oxide inhibitor along with the plant that contains dimethyltryptamine, which is not normally orally active. Right. So this guy, if he was doing drugs and taking MAO inhibitors, he was out of his fucking mind, guaranteed. Because I know people have taken, like, prescription grade MAO inhibitors and then taken mushrooms and literally almost never came back. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:52:34
Like, got to the point where for weeks they were fucked up and then when they did come back, they were like, I almost lost it. Like, I was almost gone gone. Like, you know, like the dude from Pink Floyd, like, never coming back. Shine on you crazy diamond. You’re gone. Right.
Speaker: 1
01:52:49
And that happens to people.
Speaker: 0
01:52:50
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:52:50
So this fucking kid with 1,000,000,000 of dollars of people’s money is taking those kinds of medications and amphetamines and who knows what.
Speaker: 0
01:53:00
Yeah. You know, he had an on staff psychiatrist who was prescribing all this stuff.
Speaker: 1
01:53:03
Wonderful. Like Hitler.
Speaker: 0
01:53:04
And and inside value. Yeah. Exactly. Once again Once again, back to Hitler.
Speaker: 1
01:53:11
That’s so crazy. What a wild boy.
Speaker: 0
01:53:14
Yeah. Are you following the, psycho the theories that now are emerging around Ozempic and psychological changes that Ozempic causes?
Speaker: 1
01:53:19
No. But I did read that it makes your heart shrink.
Speaker: 0
01:53:22
Well, there there’s there’s some some theory to that, which is very concerning. But there’s there’s
Speaker: 1
01:53:25
get is.
Speaker: 0
01:53:25
There’s a fair amount of evidence that it resolves, alcohol addiction, certain forms of drug addiction Wow. Gambling addictions. And the current theory is that what it does is it basically it essentially increases your self control, your self discipline, and it reduces cravings.
Speaker: 2
01:53:39
Wow.
Speaker: 0
01:53:40
And there’s a theory that this is very positive. Let’s let’s say this is true, which is what they they think right now. We’ll see, but that’s what they think. So the theory that it’s positive is the theory that, you know, if we were all, like, more responsible in our lives, we’d all be more successful and society would go better.
Speaker: 0
01:53:53
Yeah. Counterargument would be, like, responsible is only part of living, and it’s only part of what makes a society work. And we also need risk taking, and we need creativity, and we Yes. We need impulsiveness. Yes. Right? And we need variety.
Speaker: 1
01:54:05
Yes.
Speaker: 0
01:54:05
And maybe we’re all gonna get into a channel.
Speaker: 1
01:54:08
Right. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:54:08
And maybe we’re not gonna like where that where that that just by itself ends up.
Speaker: 1
01:54:11
Yeah. You can’t have everybody disciplined. You have to have wild fuckers out there.
Speaker: 0
01:54:14
Yeah. That’s right.
Speaker: 2
01:54:15
You have
Speaker: 1
01:54:15
to have your jelly rolls of the world. You know, they’re crazy people. They’re fun. Yeah. They make things more interesting.
Speaker: 0
01:54:20
Yeah. That’s right.
Speaker: 1
01:54:21
If so it’s essentially discipline in, you know, a pill form or an injectable form.
Speaker: 0
01:54:27
Yeah. And it’s very it’s very helpful. Right? They’re prescribing increasingly starting to prescribe it to alcoholics, and, apparently, it’s working quite well.
Speaker: 1
01:54:32
That’s crazy. Well, that’s that brings me to Ibogaine, which is the one thing that has, like, the most success for people with addictions and it’s illegal in this country. People go down to Mexico and go to these Ibogaine retreats. It’s apparently I haven’t done it, but it’s apparently this insane introspective journey that’s very uncomfortable and it lasts about 24 hours.
Speaker: 1
01:54:52
It’s not something that’s addictive in any way, shape, or form. Almost everyone says it’s a very uncomfortable experience, but you gain unbelievable insight into what is wrong with you that makes you wanna pick up heroin? Like, what it what’s going on in there that you’re trying to escape? Like, what is this and it recognizes that pathway and puts a chemical stop there.
Speaker: 1
01:55:13
It actually, like, stops people from having addictive cravings and it rewires the way they think about things.
Speaker: 0
01:55:19
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:55:20
Particularly beneficial to veterans. A lot of veterans who’ve just seen way too much and come over and they’re all fucked up and they don’t have any way to straighten their brain out and they’ve had tremendous benefits using that.
Speaker: 0
01:55:32
Yeah. That’s
Speaker: 1
01:55:32
right. You know, I wonder with, particularly with these, these Ozempic and Wegovy and all these different types of, weight loss diabetic drugs. I I wonder if there’s a way to mitigate these side effects because, you know, when I’ve talked to people that think that like, my friend, Brigham Brigham Bueller, who runs Weights TO Well, he he’s concerned about side effects of it, but he’s also he looks at people that are just morbidly obese.
Speaker: 1
01:56:03
Right. And he’s like, these people are they need some fucking help.
Speaker: 0
01:56:06
Right. That’s right.
Speaker: 1
01:56:07
There’s they’ve gone down this terrible road. Yeah. Yes. They shouldn’t have done it. Yes. Okay. We all agree to that. Don’t don’t eat pie all day. Yeah. But if you’ve gotten to £500, you’re probably you’re in a bad state, and you could probably use some help. And maybe that could get them back on track.
Speaker: 1
01:56:23
And maybe there’s a way with maybe strength training, because one of the things is, they lose a large percentage of muscle mass and bone density. Right. Maybe that could be mitigated with strength training.
Speaker: 2
01:56:33
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:56:33
Maybe it’s one of those things, like, if you’re gonna get on Ozepic, you must lift weights 3 times a week
Speaker: 0
01:56:37
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:56:38
Which is that might be it. Right. I mean, if it’s just losing tissue, there’s certainly that’s that’s relatively easy to fix.
Speaker: 0
01:56:47
Right. That’s right. And there’s by the way, there’s a ton of r and d going into these drugs right now, so there there’s gonna be many more versions of these things.
Speaker: 1
01:56:53
I’m hopeful that we could develop something where no one can ever be obese again. Yeah. That would be really interesting. I mean, maybe this is just the first steps of this. Right? And then, like, these are crude versions of what will ultimately be a very comprehensive way of addressing an issue like that. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:57:06
So the other thing I’d say so I’ve been down in Florida the last couple weeks working on some of the, you know, stuff happening down there. And I one of the things I learned is that the RFK the RFK is really in charge, of health for the country from here, you know, for like, he’s really in charge, you know, working with the president.
Speaker: 0
01:57:20
And, he you know, for all the controversy around some of his positions, like, he’s you know, this whole my heart like, he’s very serious about this. Mhmm. And a lot of people, including a lot of the most qualified people I know on the field are like, yes. It is long overdue that we look at the food system. Yes. And we look at all these all just whatever.
Speaker: 0
01:57:38
To your point, the horrible track that we’ve been on for 40 years Yeah. Is just a complete catastrophe. And I think it’s a there’s this concept in psychology called common knowledge, which is it’s like it’s something that everybody knows, but yet nobody states out loud. And so it, like, it’s, like, known, but then all of a sudden, there’s a tipping point. All of a sudden, it’s not only known, but it’s, like, obvious.
Speaker: 0
01:57:55
All of a sudden, everybody agrees on it. Yes. And this feels like one of those moments where it’s like nutrition, behavioral, you know, exercise, like, the path that people are on to become obese. Like, no. Like, this actually needs to be addressed.
Speaker: 0
01:58:07
Like, this is actually a profound issue, and it’s it’s it’s we’re on the road to hell, and, like, it has to get fixed. And maybe it gets it gets fixed chemically and maybe it gets fixed behaviorally or other things. Maybe the culture has to change, but, like, it has to get fixed.
Speaker: 0
01:58:17
And I’m actually I’ve been very encouraged that that like, I think this is now going to be a very big focus here. And and not just by the government, but I think also in the culture. I
Speaker: 1
01:58:25
agree. Yeah. And I’m very encouraged as well. And I think as we were talking before about a sort of a shift in perspective of the country, I think a shift in perspective of the country towards that being something that you should strive towards. I think that’s coming too. I think that’s happening right now.
Speaker: 1
01:58:39
One of the happiest moments for me is when I run into someone and they said they were inspired to get fit and healthy from listening to me talking about the benefits of it. And I’ve talked to so many people that have lost a £100, £150. They’re they’re exercising regularly. They eat healthy. It’s fantastic.
Speaker: 1
01:58:57
It’s one of my favorite things when I run into people that are fans of the podcast. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:59:01
So one of my theories on this is that, this is, it’s part of this what happened is something very specific happened during COVID, which is the public health people by and large looked very unhealthy.
Speaker: 1
01:59:12
Yes. They didn’t they didn’t look good.
Speaker: 0
01:59:14
Right. And so you’ve got these people standing up there telling everybody how they’ve got to, like, do all the, you know, lockdowns and the masks and, like, all that stuff. And, like Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:59:21
Bill Gates should get jacked.
Speaker: 0
01:59:22
That would be very helpful.
Speaker: 1
01:59:24
He’s got a lot of money.
Speaker: 0
01:59:25
It would be extremely helpful. Get a trainer. When he writes the book and goes in the press tour to talk about public health, though how the rest of us
Speaker: 1
01:59:32
should love it. A trainer.
Speaker: 0
01:59:33
That would be great. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:59:34
It’d
Speaker: 0
01:59:34
be great. By the way, it’d be great for him and his family Sure. And society. It would be very reassuring.
Speaker: 1
01:59:38
Bill Gates had a 6 pack. I’d listen to him more.
Speaker: 0
01:59:40
That I think would be absolutely absolutely fantastic. And so, like, it’s just this thing. It’s just like, well, of course. Like, yes. The people who are telling us all how to live and eat ought to be healthy. Like and if they’re not, like Clearly.
Speaker: 1
01:59:54
Right. That’s where RFK comes in play.
Speaker: 0
01:59:56
A 100%.
Speaker: 1
01:59:56
He looks fantastic.
Speaker: 0
01:59:57
He looks great. He looks great. Yeah. Yeah. Super like, yeah. It’s just like, wow. Yeah. We’re taking pictures.
Speaker: 1
02:00:01
I’m like, dude, you’re jacked. Look. I put my my arm on him. I’m like, you’re fucking jacked, dude. Look at you.
Speaker: 0
02:00:05
Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker: 1
02:00:06
Works out all the time at Gold’s Gym in Venice.
Speaker: 0
02:00:08
There we go.
Speaker: 1
02:00:08
With jeans on.
Speaker: 0
02:00:10
Awesome.
Speaker: 1
02:00:10
Works out with jeans on.
Speaker: 0
02:00:11
That’s old school.
Speaker: 1
02:00:12
I don’t get that.
Speaker: 0
02:00:12
That’s amazing.
Speaker: 1
02:00:13
That seems weird. It seems like it gets in the way of your squats unless you’re wearing, like like, origin jeans.
Speaker: 0
02:00:17
It’s only
Speaker: 1
02:00:18
so it’s got a lot of stretchy fabric to
Speaker: 0
02:00:19
it. Jeans. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:00:20
You gotta you have to give stretchy jeans. But even then, like, put some shorts on,
Speaker: 0
02:00:24
you fucking weirdo. Like, what are you doing, man? No. It’s like it’s like it’s like that’s like prison yard credibility. It is. It’s fantastic.
Speaker: 1
02:00:29
It is a little
Speaker: 2
02:00:30
it is
Speaker: 1
02:00:30
a little street crediting.
Speaker: 0
02:00:31
Old school.
Speaker: 1
02:00:32
You know, wearing Timbalands.
Speaker: 0
02:00:33
Yes.
Speaker: 1
02:00:34
Timbalands and a pair of jeans and doing your squats. It’s kinda crazy.
Speaker: 0
02:00:37
Exactly.
Speaker: 1
02:00:38
But the promotion of health is like I don’t know how anybody could be against that. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
02:00:43
Do you
Speaker: 1
02:00:44
want more energy? Do you want more vitality in your life? Well, you should be healthier. It’s like your you know, your body’s a race car, and you could choose if you work hard enough to jack up the horsepower.
Speaker: 0
02:00:54
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:00:54
You can make better brakes.
Speaker: 0
02:00:55
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:00:55
You can have a better fuel injection system. Like, the whole thing can work way better.
Speaker: 0
02:00:59
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:00:59
Like, all you have to do is work at it.
Speaker: 0
02:01:00
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:01:01
And that is your vehicle for propelling you through this life. It’ll give you more energy for creativity, more energy for your family, more energy for your hobbies, your recreations, time with your friends. You’ll literally have more energy as a human, which is what we all like. Nobody likes waking up feeling like shit. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:01:16
I mean, everybody’s been hungover who’s had a a few drinks, and you wake up in the morning, like, what am I doing? I don’t ever wanna do this again. Why did I do this to myself? And then you can’t wait for the day where you feel better.
Speaker: 0
02:01:26
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:01:27
Like, you drink your electrolytes, you you get your sleep, you do whatever the fuck you can, and you’re like, I’ll be over this soon. Yeah. Go. Oh, your head. And you, you know, everybody likes having more energy. It’s better for you. And we could promote that as a society and the this RFK junior appointment is a really big step in that direction that we’ve really never had before.
Speaker: 0
02:01:48
That’s right. Yeah. You have to go back to, like, literally his uncle. JFK had a program like this in, like, 1962. Yeah. It’s been a long time.
Speaker: 1
02:01:55
Well, Michelle Obama did for a bit. Right?
Speaker: 2
02:01:57
A
Speaker: 0
02:01:57
little bit. Although that was, like, vegetarian you know, you’re getting into, like, vegetarian school.
Speaker: 1
02:02:01
Oh, was she saying vegetarian? I don’t
Speaker: 2
02:02:02
know if
Speaker: 0
02:02:02
she was vegetarian, but, like, well, Eric Adams, you know, the government mayor mayor of New York has been trying to push vegetarian school lunches.
Speaker: 1
02:02:08
Oh. It’s like, no. That’s not right. No. That’s not right. It’s so dumb. I can’t wait until they could figure out the plants really can think and feel. Right. Exactly. Because they’re real close. They’re real close to proving that. I mean, they’ve they’ve demonstrated intelligence and allocation of resources through mycelium.
Speaker: 1
02:02:23
There’s a lot of stuff that we we know now about plants that we didn’t know then. I think they’re all conscious. I think everything’s conscious.
Speaker: 2
02:02:29
Yeah. I
Speaker: 0
02:02:30
think we need we need audio recordings of the screams. Yeah. When you mow the lawn, it’s just like Armageddon.
Speaker: 1
02:02:34
You know that they could play audio recordings of caterpillars eating leaves and it changes the flavor profile of all the plants around it.
Speaker: 0
02:02:41
Awesome. Oh.
Speaker: 1
02:02:42
Yeah. They’ve they’ve done this because there’s a phenomenon when, giraffes if giraffes are eating if they are upwind and they’re eating leaves as the the wind comes down and gets to the other Acacia trees, the Acacia trees will they’ll come up with this phytochemical. They produce a phytochemical that’s disgusting
Speaker: 2
02:03:00
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:03:00
To the giraffes. And the giraffes will literally starve Yeah. Because they won’t eat those trees. Yeah. And they do this somehow or another through communication. Yeah. It’s like they’re preventing war. They’re being attacked by mammals. Yep. And they’re like, we have to stop the attack, and nature has provided them with this mechanism to do that, which is really crazy. It’s amazing.
Speaker: 0
02:03:17
So back back to the back to the dose for a moment. So the one of the reasons why everybody became unhealthy is because the government directly exert put itself into the food system and specifically high fructose corn syrup. Right? High fructose corn syrup was an artifact of government agriculture subsidies. Right? The Right.
Speaker: 0
02:03:32
The country was
Speaker: 1
02:03:33
Which was good during World War 2 because we needed food. At one time. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:03:36
Right. But, like, by the 19 seventies Right. We were massively overproducing. Specifically, we’re massively overproducing corn. And the and the corn the corn lobby, the the the sort of agriculture lobby became very powerful. And and and we have this government agency. 1 of the 450 government agencies is the USDA, and the USDA has a dual mandate.
Speaker: 0
02:03:51
It’s to promote US agriculture, specifically things like corn, and it’s also to advise us on what we should eat. And they also do the food pyramid. And that’s why the food pyramid is upside down, right, for for for for all those decades where we’re supposed to eat carbs and not protein and fat was because literally that’s the agency that’s responsible for for for promoting agriculture.
Speaker: 0
02:04:09
And that then that agency, it’s inserted itself through laws, regulations, and this kind of administrative pressure. And, basically, you said, thou shalt use high fructose corn syrup because it is a our byproduct of corn as opposed to sugar. Right. And as we now know, that was absolutely poisonous decision. Like, that was, like, literal literal poison. Absolutely a ruinous decision. Just an absolutely terrible idea.
Speaker: 1
02:04:31
Well, Casey Means was on here, and she was explaining the the very mechanism by which a high fructose corn syrup encourages overconsumption. Right. And then it’s essentially like, it’s an evolutionary thing that, like, where bears would eat, like, a bunch of berries to get fat for the winter.
Speaker: 1
02:04:47
It’s like these high fructose corn syrup encourages you to over consume.
Speaker: 0
02:04:51
Yeah. We were not supposed to be eating this. Like, this was not supposed to it would not have happened. Drinking it. A 100%. Like yeah. A 100%. And so and but this would not have happened had the government not made it happen. And and so it traces directly back to a government decision to do that.
Speaker: 0
02:05:04
Now they didn’t, of course, they didn’t understand the consequences, but that’s kind of the point, which is they interfered without understanding the consequences. And so that’s the kind of thing where you look at it, and you’re just like, alright. Like and then you’re you’re 40 years later, and you’re still doing it.
Speaker: 0
02:05:15
Right. And then if that and and then at some point, you know what the consequences are, and then at some point, there’s a question of whether they’re being covered up. Right. Right? And it’s just like, okay. At some point, this has to stop. Right. And and and literally, they just need to stop.
Speaker: 0
02:05:26
Like, they they just need to stop subsidizing corn. They need to stop forcing the food companies to do this. They just need to stop. And so there this goes back to, like, the regulatory reform thing, which is, like, there’s just, like, tremendous amount of this that may have been good intention at one point.
Speaker: 0
02:05:38
Yeah. But sitting here today, we’re living with these horrible downstream consequences. And unless somebody steps in with a hammer, none of this is going to happen.
Speaker: 1
02:05:46
And they also strange. The insane amount of money that’s involved because RJ Reynolds, these tobacco companies, when they were getting sanctioned, they were getting in trouble. They decided, well, let’s buy all these food companies.
Speaker: 0
02:05:56
Right.
Speaker: 1
02:05:56
And so now, these same companies that lied about whether or not cigarettes are addictive and cause cancer, now these same companies are pushing super unhealthy food on people or at least selling super unhealthy food to people, which I think you should be allowed to buy. Right. I think you should be allowed to buy whatever the fuck you want. I’m I’m all for that.
Speaker: 1
02:06:15
But I do think we should be, like, much more aware of what’s actually going on, like you’re saying, and why this stuff is in there in the first place. Right.
Speaker: 0
02:06:22
Well, then and then you get in these other, you know, more more delicate questions. But it’s like, okay, food assistance programs for, like, you know, low income people and low income children. It’s like, okay. Should they be do we want little kids who have no control over this to end up on the receiving end of this food production pipeline Right.
Speaker: 0
02:06:38
Paid for with government money and being £300 by the time they’re 18.
Speaker: 1
02:06:41
Right. And cheaper than other food.
Speaker: 0
02:06:42
And cheaper than other foods because they’re subsidized. Right. Because they’re subsidized. And so and you just you have this very perverse outcome where you have these government officials who have been standing up there for 40 years saying we’re protecting you. We’re protecting you, and what’s been happening is they’ve been poisoning us.
Speaker: 1
02:06:54
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:06:55
And so it like, stuff like it just needs to stop. And and and that’s that’s that’s where you need something like the Doge. So And and and somebody like president Trump.
Speaker: 1
02:07:03
What would they be able to do to mitigate a lot of these issues? Like, how would they if you wanna would you make it illegal to put high fructose corn syrup as an as an ingredient? Or would you simply stop subsidizing? Like and what would be how would that work within the government? Like, how would you apply something like that?
Speaker: 0
02:07:23
Yeah. I think there’s 3 things you can do, 2 of which involve direct action, and then the third is maybe even the most important. So one is you can just stop doing things that are harmful. You can stop doing things. If the government can stop subsidizing bad things, that’s an example.
Speaker: 0
02:07:34
Let me give you an example. It’s a parallel parallel thing. If you if you wanna clean up universities, you you need to stop feeding them student loans. Right? So Right. The government should stop paying for things that are clearly harmful. So so that’s 1.
Speaker: 0
02:07:44
And then 2 is, look, there may be a role for additional, you know, protections or prohibitions. And so, for example, maybe you let people freely buy all the Oreos they want, but maybe you can’t get them with food assistance programs so that, you know, kids who have no control over it are not are not being poisoned.
Speaker: 0
02:07:58
And so, you know, you maybe do that. But but I always think that the third thing is culture culture. Like, there’s always a temptation of these discussions because the government’s so powerful to talk about what the government does or doesn’t do, and I think so much of this has to do with the culture.
Speaker: 0
02:08:11
It’s it’s actually upstream or downstream from politics, which is like like, what is the cultural tone of the country? Right. What’s the value system? Right. What are the role models? Right? Right. What are people being inspired to do? Also, what form of shaming is in effect?
Speaker: 0
02:08:25
Like, what are what are we not gonna tolerate? Take the perverse fat studies. Like Right. Are are we gonna glorify obesity? Right? Right. No. No.
Speaker: 0
02:08:36
And that’s not necessarily a legal judgment or a court case, but it’s it’s a it’s a cultural statement. And if the if and and I and and it’s not that the government plays should control the culture, but our leaders certainly play a big role in that. Yeah. And so in both in and outside of government. And so for our leaders to step up at a moment like this and basically say, yeah. No.
Speaker: 0
02:08:53
This is not the kind of culture we’re gonna have. It’s not the kind of society we’re gonna have. It’s not what kids should, you know, be looking up to. I think I I think it’s just as powerful as the actual government actions.
Speaker: 1
02:09:00
It’s interesting you’re saying the kind of shaming because I don’t wanna shame anybody for being fat, but boy does that work. Maybe you should shame Fat shaming works.
Speaker: 0
02:09:07
And maybe you should shame parents if their kids are fat.
Speaker: 1
02:09:09
Yeah. Right? The problem is And maybe you there’s so many people that are ignorant as to what exactly is going on.
Speaker: 0
02:09:15
But of course. And that’s it’s, like, absolutely required. Like And
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02:09:17
they’re being fed bullshit.
Speaker: 0
02:09:18
A 100%. And yes. But but again, it’s also cultural, which is just like, okay, is is the media thing, like, is the media educating people on this? And if if the mainstream media is not doing it right, are there should there be new media sources that are?
Speaker: 1
02:09:29
And, like,
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02:09:29
who gets in which source and then therefore, which sources the media get respect? Right? And so we we have this giant collective culture question
Speaker: 2
02:09:36
Right.
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02:09:36
That we get to we all get to ask and answer, and particularly those of us in a position to be able to send messages that a lot of people
Speaker: 1
02:09:42
hear. So that will help. That will help move the needle. And but but what specifically can RFK Jr. Do once he actually gets in? I mean, there’s
Speaker: 0
02:09:51
Oh, yeah. He has tremendous he was he was secretary of HHS. He has very broad, you know, I would say, a very broad ability to look at this holistically inside the government.
Speaker: 1
02:09:59
What kind of pushback is there gonna be against that? Like, that seems like a wild amount of money is gonna be lost. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:10:05
So there there so there’s there’s there’s the work that the the cabinet secretaries like he will be doing formally, and then there’s the work that the Doge and and and the president will be doing kind of in parallel with that. And, you know, there will be some convergence between those. And and, you know, there’s the we’ll see.
Speaker: 0
02:10:19
There’s a potential here for quite dramatic action on a lot of these fronts.
Speaker: 1
02:10:22
Could you imagine if you’re running an agency and you have to have a meeting with Vivek and Elon?
Speaker: 0
02:10:28
Yes. And you
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02:10:29
gotta open your books?
Speaker: 0
02:10:30
Yes. Yes.
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02:10:33
It’s
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02:10:33
like office space where they brought in the bobs for console.
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02:10:37
Yes. What
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02:10:37
do you do here?
Speaker: 1
02:10:38
Exactly. That’s exactly what it’s like. Is there a meme like that? Is there a meme like that? I think there’s a meme where they take those guys and they put Elon and Vivek’s heads on them.
Speaker: 0
02:10:48
Yes. So there was a another key timeline split that happened in Silicon Valley about 2 years ago. Actually, two and a half years ago when Elon was actually right before he took over Twitter where he got in an email fight with the CEO of Twitter at the time, who’s actually, a guy who’s a friend of mine is a really good guy, but had it literally this guy had just been promoted from engineering to run the company, and then, like, a month later, he ends up trying to deal with the Elon situation.
Speaker: 0
02:11:09
So kinda got a little bit sandbagged on it. But, yes.
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02:11:16
Of course, he said. Elon Musk says he rewatched Office Space to prepare for Doge. Of course, he did.
Speaker: 0
02:11:22
Of course, he did.
Speaker: 1
02:11:23
Fucking psycho. Exactly. God. We’re so lucky that guy’s around.
Speaker: 0
02:11:29
Exactly. So there was this moment in the Twitter takeover where Elon sends his email and he says the and the line is, what what did you get done this week?
Speaker: 1
02:11:35
Woah.
Speaker: 0
02:11:36
What did you get done this week? And in the context of Silicon Valley companies, that was a provocative statement because a lot of Silicon Valley companies take months or years to do anything. But imagine that statement being applied to the government.
Speaker: 1
02:11:49
Oh my god.
Speaker: 0
02:11:50
Right? Like, the level of, like, accelerated like, okay. What are the problems? How are we gonna fix them? And what have you gotten done this week?
Speaker: 1
02:11:56
Yeah. You think debanking upended some lives?
Speaker: 0
02:11:59
Yes. Exactly. So, yes, what have you done this week? And by the way, when Elon runs this guy, it’s actually interesting. A guy just, tweeted, a guy just tweeted or posted or is he did, what it’s like to work for Elon at his AI company, XAI. And he said Elon came in last week, and he said, Elon spent 18 hours at the office and in 5 minute chunks.
Speaker: 0
02:12:15
And it was every 5 each person had a 5 minute speaking slot to explain to Elon what they were doing. Wow. And he did that for, you know, 5 times whatever. Right? Oh, for 18 hours.
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02:12:24
Jesus Christ.
Speaker: 0
02:12:25
And so think about what that meant. Every employee had an opportunity to tell the big boss what they were working on. Every employee had an opportunity to be recognized for their effort. Every employee had an opportunity to get live feedback from the big boss who had a comprehensive overview of everything as to what they should be doing. Woah.
Speaker: 0
02:12:41
And there’s no place to hide.
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02:12:44
Right.
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02:12:44
Woah. And think about different it is for a company to be run that way. Right. Then even again, the Valley companies generally are quite well run by by sort of business standards and and even that, like, that’s a level of intensity that most Valley companies aren’t even close to.
Speaker: 1
02:12:56
Now imagine that applied to government. To government. And there’s It’s just
Speaker: 0
02:13:00
And it’s and, again, this is the kind of thing. There’s no law that like, there’s no reason it can’t be done. There’s no law that prevents that. There’s nothing in the constitution that says you can’t do that. It’s a choice. How the government is run is a choice on the part of the executive branch of the president for how it’s going to get run, and there’s no reason why the government can’t literally be run be run this way.
Speaker: 1
02:13:16
And here’s what’s crazy. The pushback against even the concept of this by leftist. So leftists defending bureaucratic bloat and big government Right. Is wild to watch.
Speaker: 0
02:13:29
Right. Which they really shouldn’t be doing, which is a weird thing to have wedged themselves into. My hope is they’ll figure out how weird this is. Do you
Speaker: 1
02:13:35
think it’s, like, just an ideological thing? Like, the oppose it? I think I think they I think the left
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02:13:39
thinks they
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02:13:40
control the government. Like, I think 50 years ago, they would have been on the other side of this of this issue. Like like Noam Chomsky 50 years ago Of course. Would have been on the other side of this. Yes. He would have viewed government power as an extension of, like, the state
Speaker: 1
02:13:47
and big business intertwined.
Speaker: 0
02:13:48
And he intertwined. Then he had these to just term manufacturing of consent, whereas, like, government business are conspiring against you. Yeah. So he would have been on the other side of this. But I think today’s leftist
Speaker: 1
02:13:58
think they control the
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02:13:58
government, which in many ways they do. Well, so Washington DC the Washington DC voted 94% for Kabul. 6% for Trump. Woah. Right? And so okay. So 2 data points. That is data point number 1. Data point number 2, 4 of the 10 wealthiest counties in the country are suburbs of Washington DC. Wow. Lobbyists. Lobbyists. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:14:20
They call Beltway Bandits. Yeah. That’s a crazy job. It’s the act it’s the actual term. And these aren’t people working for the government.
Speaker: 0
02:14:28
These are people making money from
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02:14:30
the government. Right?
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02:14:30
These are
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02:14:31
these are people sponging sponging off the government. And so, like, yeah. For for for to the extent that Democrats have wedged themselves into a position where they’re defending this, they really shouldn’t. They should really rethink this. They should figure out how to get back to, right, the correct the correct mentality on this that they used to have.
Speaker: 1
02:14:47
No. Yeah. If there’s less government bloat, then there’s less tax dollars. Yes. You don’t you don’t you don’t need as much money to fund these things. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:14:54
That’s right.
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02:14:54
There’s, like, people can be taxed less. Yeah. There can be more allocation of these funds towards these social programs that we all want. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:15:01
You know, most federal workers never came back to work. Really? Yeah. They they they work from home. Most. Most. Yeah. Like, what percentage? Large percentage. Something like half just literally just never came back. Woah. They they still, by the way, still draw a paycheck.
Speaker: 0
02:15:13
They’re still on their jobs, but, literally, they’re not in the office. Or in some cases, they have an agreement where there there’s one agency that I won’t name, but, there’s one agency where there’s where the there’s okay. Here’s another great thing. There are agencies of the federal government whose workforces are both civil servants as civil have full civil service protections and and unionized.
Speaker: 0
02:15:31
Entirely paid for by the taxpayer, but they both have civil service protections, which, by the way, are totally made up. There’s no concept in the constitution of, like, civil service protections. It’s just, like, totally made up thing, and they’re unionized. And and then there’s a particular agency that I know of where the union agreement the union negotiated the return of the office from COVID, and the agreement was you have to be in the office one day a month.
Speaker: 0
02:15:50
Woah. And and, actually, what the the pattern now is what they do is the employees come in on the last day of the month and the first day of the following month. So they only have to be there for 2 days
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02:15:59
For 2 months.
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02:15:59
Out of out of 60 days.
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02:16:01
That’s crazy.
Speaker: 0
02:16:02
As a consequence, many of them have left the area. Right? Because they get their government paycheck, which is calibrated for living there, and then they go live someplace nice, you know, someplace nice, but, you know, they go live in the Ozarks or something where
Speaker: 2
02:16:12
it’s Right.
Speaker: 0
02:16:12
Cost of living is cheaper, and they have big a bigger house. And, you know, in theory, they’re working from home, but, like, you know, like, is it is it actually happening? So and this is why, again, this is the Doge. It’s one of the things that the the Doge they’ve they’ve already announced. The the thing they’ve said is you can work from home, just not for the federal government.
Speaker: 0
02:16:28
Oh. Right. Yeah. And so when people are talking about, like, is the Doge gonna be able to do anything, like, it’s just, okay, there’s 50% of the federal workforce. Right? And and as a, you know and as, yes, as a taxpayer, how do you feel about that?
Speaker: 0
02:16:40
And, you know, to to your point on paying taxes, like, if those people are in the office and there are dynamos of activity and they’re making the country better Right. Fair enough.
Speaker: 1
02:16:48
Of course.
Speaker: 0
02:16:48
But if they’re kicking it at home Right. Maybe not. Yeah. Maybe not. And So that’s the
Speaker: 1
02:16:53
How much oversight has there been on whether or not they’ve been kicking it?
Speaker: 0
02:16:56
Excellent question. Yeah. Now it turns out there are way there there are actually there there are ways to figure this out. So for example, for many for many jobs where you have to log in to be able to get access, like, to email, you you can actually check-in, like, often you have VPNs to get into the corporate network.
Speaker: 0
02:17:10
You can actually audit, and you can see who’s been working. Oh. And then there’s a do do you know about mouse wigglers?
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02:17:17
Yes. Yeah. Yes. Programs.
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02:17:20
No. No. Actually, physical.
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02:17:21
Oh, they’re physical mouse wigglers
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02:17:22
now. Yeah. Physical mouse wigglers. And so it’s a physical device that holds your mouse and and and then on a intermittently wiggles it. And a friend of mine who runs a big tech company, he just had, like, a nagging feeling in the back of his head that maybe all of his remote worker workers weren’t pulling their weight.
Speaker: 0
02:17:38
And so he actually wrote himself on a weekend an algorithm to inspect all the mouse movements of all employees for a week, and then, and then he bought all 50, like, mouse wigglers from China that you can buy. And he fingerprinted them all, and he found that he had, like, a whole bunch of employees who were using mouse wick mouse wigglers. Woah.
Speaker: 2
02:17:54
Right?
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02:17:54
And so how many federal employees are using mouse wiggler? Right.
Speaker: 1
02:17:57
So How crazy is that that that’s how they can measure whether or not you’re active? Yeah. Whether your mouse is moving? Yeah. Like, what are they what are they seeing? Just Just a pattern of movement of the mouse? That’s it?
Speaker: 0
02:18:08
Well, the mouse the mouse wiggler is moving in a in a way that you can fingerprint.
Speaker: 1
02:18:11
So is this like do you agree to a certain amount of disclosure of your personal information while you’re working? Like, how do you get access to mouse wiggles?
Speaker: 0
02:18:20
Oh, so it’s very common. So in corporate environments, it’s very common that the your your company issued computer has some kind of software on it that lets the company control the software and gives them it gives the company some level of visibility into what you’re doing.
Speaker: 0
02:18:31
And that doesn’t mean that doesn’t mean they’re watching literally watching you, but it but it means that they have the ability to kinda reach in and be able to, you know, be able to see, you know, how how much is the computer on
Speaker: 1
02:18:39
Wow. Is the
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02:18:40
most moving? And so that that’s actually a reason reasonably common thing.
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02:18:42
I heard the most ridiculous argument against this. Yeah.
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02:18:45
They’re like,
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02:18:45
what are you gonna do with all those employees that get fired? Like, what are you gonna do with all those people who are stealing hubcaps? They’re making a living stealing what are you gonna do if you make hubcaps stealing illegal? Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. They’re essentially stealing tax dollars.
Speaker: 0
02:18:58
Yeah.
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02:18:59
If they really are doing something that’s totally useless Right. And they’re we’re wasting enormous amounts of money on this every year. Right. The argument that what are you gonna do if those people can’t do that anymore is really crazy.
Speaker: 0
02:19:10
Yeah. Well, the answer is they can do something productive.
Speaker: 1
02:19:13
Yeah. And people are more than capable. They can You don’t have to infantilize someone to say, like, this is the only thing they’re capable of doing. Exactly. They’ve worked for the government for 20 years. This is all they can do.
Speaker: 0
02:19:23
Yeah. And then, by the way, there’s multiple knock on positive knock on effects. If you can cut government spending, there’s multiple knock on effects. So one is if you cut the spending, you can cut the taxes, and you can just the the private economy then just simply has more money because it hasn’t been taken.
Speaker: 0
02:19:35
And so if there’s less public spend, there will be more private spend.
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02:19:38
Right.
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02:19:38
Right? Because the money reallocates. And so there might be just as much demand in the economy. It’s just coming from people choosing to buy things instead of the government forcing it. So that’s number 1. Number 2, you can bring down government debt, which means you can bring down government interest.
Speaker: 0
02:19:50
And the government today the federal government today pays more in interest than we pay for the Department of Defense.
Speaker: 1
02:19:56
Right. But how much of that is salary?
Speaker: 0
02:19:57
No. No. That’s just interest on the debt. Right. That’s just interest on the old debt. Okay. We pay, like, 1,200,000,000 a year right now, I think is the latest number, which is which is just interest on debt. It’s not paying for any good or service. It’s just interest on debt.
Speaker: 0
02:20:08
But, again
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02:20:08
What percentage of that is the What? Of the GDP? Well, the
Speaker: 0
02:20:13
so the the, the total government spending is on the order of 7,000,000,000,000. Interest payments are, like, 1,200,000,000,000,000, something like that.
Speaker: 1
02:20:19
1.2 trillion.
Speaker: 0
02:20:21
The current number. DOD is 800,000,000,000 a year. So 1,200,000,000,000? Just off the top. Yeah. Just off the top. And, again, no tax nobody’s benefiting from that. It’s just interest payments.
Speaker: 1
02:20:29
That’s bananas.
Speaker: 0
02:20:30
And total GDP is like I don’t have any I don’t know. It’s it’s it’s it’s, I don’t know, it’s 20, 30, 40,000,000,000,000. It’s, you know, it’s much larger than that, but, like, still
Speaker: 1
02:20:38
It’s enough.
Speaker: 0
02:20:38
This is a lot of money. And any and and the and the total accumulated debt is 35,000,000,000,000,000, and and the total accumulated debt is 35,000,000,000,000,000, and it adds another trillion of accumulated debt every 100 days. Yes.
Speaker: 1
02:20:53
Oh my god. It hurts my head.
Speaker: 0
02:20:55
There’s a congressman actually, Thomas Massie. You should have so he’s the one guy in Washington who talks about this, and he’s an MIT. He’s a he’s one of the only libertarians, and he’s a, he’s an MIT engineer, actually designed himself the a, pocket lapel pin calculator of the of the of the government debt, and he wears it every day and watches it.
Speaker: 0
02:21:08
Around with this scrollable. He walks with a little scrolling LED display Oh my god. On on his lapel,
Speaker: 1
02:21:12
and it it literally counts. It it
Speaker: 0
02:21:19
counts the and it’s accurate. It’s pulling data from the US Treasury, and it’s actually an accurate count. And so it’s, like, 34,000,000,000, 35,000,000,000, 36,000,000,000. Here’s the kicker. At the current pace of the compounding, it’ll cross the debt will cross a 100,000,000,000,000 in the foreseeable future.
Speaker: 0
02:21:31
So he’s already working on the redesign because he needs a bigger device with a bigger screen to be able to display the bigger number.
Speaker: 1
02:21:38
How much anxiety do you get standing around him looking at
Speaker: 0
02:21:40
that thing? That’s his goal. Right? He wants because otherwise, the status quo in Washington has just let this happen. Ugh. Right? And so so, anyway, so so another way you benefit is reduction of interest. And then another way you benefit is reduction of interest rates. If you bring down the amount of debt in the economy, you bring down interest rates.
Speaker: 0
02:21:54
And then everybody else who buys things, when you go to buy for a house, your mortgage is cheaper. Right? So everybody who buys anybody who ever borrows money in the real economy then therefore is better off.
Speaker: 1
02:22:03
Right. This is the argument against business. Being only good for wealthy people.
Speaker: 0
02:22:07
Oh, it’s good for everybody. Right. Yeah. It’s good for anybody who ever get car loan, home loan, small business loan. You’re gonna bring down interest rates.
Speaker: 1
02:22:14
But this fundamental discussion of it, the the like, the argument particularly from the left is that all these tax cuts, deregulation, all this all this is going to do is make Trump supporters and Trump’s people wealthier, and it’s gonna ruin the middle class and ruin the lower everyone else is gonna suffer.
Speaker: 0
02:22:32
So just observationally, almost all the rich people in our society are for were for Kamala.
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02:22:36
Right. Really?
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02:22:37
Yeah. The
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02:22:37
Democrat the the Democratic Party so the the so Democrat, Republican, it’s a it’s what they call it’s a political scientist called top plus bottom versus middle is the configuration. So the Democratic Party is the top and the bottom versus the middle. So the top is what you might call the sort of upper middle class coastal elites.
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02:22:53
Mhmm.
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02:22:53
So it’s everybody who went to the fancy schools. It’s everybody with the fancy jobs. It’s for sure me. I guess you’re grandfathered in. Yeah. Right? But it’s like it’s like, you know, it’s like it’s like fancy it’s like high net worth, high income people with primarily now knowledge working jobs. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:23:07
So so some professor, reporter, programmer. Right? Database expert,
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02:23:13
like Author.
Speaker: 0
02:23:14
Author, lawyer Yeah. You know, accountant, banker, like, all all the sort of, you know, quote elite jobs. And on all the elite degrees, by the way, who all went to the top schools and got, like, you know, the the the elite degree. So so that’s the top. And then the bottom is what what you you call the the clientele underclass. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:23:28
So it’s and it’s it’s the it’s it’s they call the the rainbow coalition. Right? So it’s all it’s the minority groups. Right? And so it’s the assembly of, you know, low income African Americans, low income Latinos, you know, dot….
Speaker: 0
02:23:38
All
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02:23:39
those immigrants.
Speaker: 0
02:23:40
Recent immigrants and so forth. Right? And so that’s the democratic coalition that they explicitly program against. And then republicans in in our era, republicans are in the it’s it’s the it’s the middle class, lower middle class. You know? It’s it’s all the people who don’t have the fancy degrees and that are doing all the actual work that’s basically making the country run. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:23:57
So it’s it’s everybody from the small business owner, the restaurant tour, you know, the truck drivers, truck drivers, farmers, you know, all the way, you know, garbage men and janitor. Like, everybody who goes to work 9 to 5 has a job, probably probably either small business or a physical job. Mhmm. You know?
Speaker: 0
02:24:13
You know, it’s sort of say labor, like real labor, like actual labor, calluses on the hands. Right? Right? It kinds of stuff. So kind of the the so called real economy, which is why, right, the republicans are concentrated in the center and the south because that’s where all those things are, and then democrats are concentrated in New York and California and on the coast, which is where all the symbolic, you know, creative intellectual jobs are.
Speaker: 0
02:24:32
And so so so let’s so and so so the the weird thing that’s happened is, progress liberalism progressivism started speaking for the working man. Right? Like, a 100 years ago, it spoke for the working man, and now what’s happened is there’s been a complete reorientation where the working man has separated out.
Speaker: 0
02:24:47
And then and then you saw that in this most recent election, where the unions the union leadership still, for the most part, endorsed Kamala, but the rank and file, voted majority for Trump in a lot of cases. And the the the the data point that I remember is the Teamsters, voted 70% for Trump.
Speaker: 1
02:25:02
What do you think the motivation of all these wealthy people to vote for Kamala Harris was? Because they feel great.
Speaker: 0
02:25:08
Because they’re saving the world. Yes. It is. It’s amazing to be in charge and control society and decide how everything works and decide who’s good and who’s bad. And, like, you’re elite. You get to be the elite. You get to make the elite decisions. And if
Speaker: 1
02:25:22
you wanna be in that group, you have to You
Speaker: 0
02:25:24
gotta you gotta you gotta do this. And you feel good about yourself because you feel like what you’re doing is on behalf of your you you feel like what you’re doing is on behalf of your client of your clientele enterprise.
Speaker: 1
02:25:32
Enforced by the echo chamber you live in.
Speaker: 0
02:25:34
Yeah. And it’s just it’s why the if you read if you read the media, New York Times, it’s just it it’s it’s either it’s New York Times only has 2 articles anymore. It’s either how evil are Republicans or how, you know, innocent and helpless are, you know, poor, you know, poor or greed minorities or, you know, identity groups. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:25:48
And so oppositional force, and then but we’re the party of good with the capital of the community because we’re taking care of all these poor marginalized people. And so it’s a very compelling You feel great about yourself. Right? It’s just absolutely amazing. And then, by the way, it just so happens that the economy is wired up in a way where you’re getting paid a ton of money for not working very hard.
Speaker: 1
02:26:06
And it’s
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02:26:07
all great. And then you’re completely isolated away from the lived experience of just normal people, which is the state that I found myself in, where it would never even occur to you to talk to a garbage man or to a somebody, you know, running a restaurant or whatever because but it’s just like you’re not affected by the rising crime rates because you live in a safe neighborhood.
Speaker: 1
02:26:26
Right.
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02:26:27
And you’ve got a you know, you’re against the wall on the border, but you got a wall around your house.
Speaker: 1
02:26:30
Right.
Speaker: 0
02:26:31
Right? And so you you just you’re in this bubble.
Speaker: 2
02:26:33
Uh-huh. And
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02:26:34
then you only ever talk to people who agree with you. Right. And then the media is constantly reinforcing it. And then you get ostracized if you disagree.
Speaker: 1
02:26:41
And that’s And that’s the wedge. Like, that’s the wedge.
Speaker: 0
02:26:43
And and it worked. Like, look, for a long time, it worked for 40, 50, 60 years. It worked as a way to gain and hold political power. It’s just it’s just gotten wedged in kind of this corner where it it can no longer win, and so therefore, it it it it has to get re examined.
Speaker: 1
02:26:56
So for you, when you had the shift of thinking, you talked to the waiter and then the Hillary Clinton speech, and then, like, how long is it before you start publicly expressing these things? And, like, how much of a reluctance is there?
Speaker: 0
02:27:10
Well, so from 26/17 to 2020, I was just, like, trying to figure out what the hell is going on, and then COVID hit. And then I was trying to figure out what the hell was going on with COVID. And, you know, our business, you know, went crazy. Our business caved in and had all kinds of crazy, horrible things happening. And we, you know, we have all these companies.
Speaker: 0
02:27:24
We have hundreds of companies who are responsible for our start ups, and so we’re working with them to try to keep them afloat and get the money and everything. But, really, it was I mean, really, the big thing was the Biden administration just, like, flat out tried to kill us.
Speaker: 0
02:27:35
Like, they just came, like, straight at us, and they came straight at our founders. And so and they tried to kill crypto, and they were they were on their way to trying to kill AI. I mean, they they’re they’re were horrible. Like, there were if if a second What
Speaker: 1
02:27:47
was the motivation to kill AI?
Speaker: 0
02:27:48
Because it’s a because they they want they want control. I mean, they want control. They wanna control. They wanna control in the same way they control.
Speaker: 1
02:27:55
Recognize the potential of it, and they wanted to head it off of the path.
Speaker: 0
02:27:57
They wanna control. Well, they wanna put it in a They don’t necessarily wanna stop it, but they wanna make sure that they control it in the same way that they control social media, in the same way that they control the press.
Speaker: 2
02:28:05
So how
Speaker: 1
02:28:05
are they trying to do that?
Speaker: 0
02:28:06
So sensor I mean, so it’s the it’s the AI. It’s think about it as the same dynamics that cause censorship to happen on social media were also gonna happen in AI. And and and so there’s a couple steps here. So one is you just want a small number of companies that do AI because you wanna be able to put them in a headlock and control them.
Speaker: 0
02:28:20
So you you you basically wanna give you basically wanna have a government. You you you wanna bless a small set of large companies with a cartel and set up a regulatory structure where those companies are intertwined with the government, and then you wanna prevent startups from being able to enter that cartel.
Speaker: 1
02:28:35
And how would they do that?
Speaker: 0
02:28:35
That’s a threat to the control. So it’s it’s concept called regulatory capture. And so the the way and this is this has happened many times for, you know, 100 of years. This is like a very well established kind of thing in in economics and politics. So if it is is it if suppose you’re a big suppose you’re a big bank. Suppose you’re Jamie Dimon. You run JPMorgan Chase.
Speaker: 0
02:28:52
Like, what’s, like, the biggest possible threat of what you could possibly face? It’s that there’s some disruptive change that comes along that upends your entire business. You know, you your codec. You know? Right.
Speaker: 0
02:29:02
Your
Speaker: 1
02:29:02
codec. You’re Right. Right.
Speaker: 0
02:29:04
Making a ton of money on on on analog film, and then digital cameras come along, and and you get destroyed. And further in your obituary, it’s like you’re the idiot, you know, who Blockbuster video. Blockbuster video. Like, that’s the cautionary tale. Those are the ghost stories that those guys tell around a campfire at night. Right. They’re just absolutely terrifying.
Speaker: 1
02:29:18
Right.
Speaker: 0
02:29:18
And, like, business schools teach you, like, that’s the one thing you do not wanna do. And so there’s 2 ways to try to deal with that. 1 is you could try to invent the future before it happens to you, but that’s hard because you’re running a big company and, you know, these startups are out there doing all these crazy things.
Speaker: 0
02:29:30
And can you really do that? And it’s hard and frisky and dangerous. The other thing you can do is you can go to the government. You can basically say, okay. We’re gonna we would like to propose basically a trade, which is we would like the government to put up a wall of regulation. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:29:43
We would like the government to put in place rules, right, that are potentially thousands of pages long. Right? And and in fact, the more the better. Right? We want a very, very, very high bar for regulation for what’s required to be in this business because I’m a big company.
Speaker: 0
02:29:56
I can afford 10,000 lawyers and compliance people. Right? I I I voluntarily put myself under basically the government thumb. But in return, the government has erected this wall of regulations such that the next startup comes along and just if the next company comes along, it just literally can’t function.
Speaker: 0
02:30:14
And by the way, this is literally what happened in banking. So pre 2008, pre the financial crisis, there were many different banks in the country, big big, medium, small, and lots of new bank startups every year that would people would just start banks, entrepreneurial banks of of many different kinds.
Speaker: 0
02:30:29
After the financial crisis, we had this problem called the too big to fail banks. Right? The the the banks were too big. And so there was this legislation called Dodd Frank, which was regulatory reform for banking, which is gonna fix the too big to fail banking problem. They implemented that in 2011. I call that the big bank protection act of 2011.
Speaker: 0
02:30:44
It was marketed as it was gonna solve the problem of the too big to fail banks. What it actually did was it made them much larger. So those banks are not those bank those those too big to fail banks, the same ones we bailed out are now much larger than they were before. The the banking industry has concentrated into those banks. All the midsized banks are being shaken out, and, you know, they’re periodically, they’ll go under.
Speaker: 0
02:31:04
Like, our we have a the bank in Silicon Valley is called Silicon Valley Bank. Right? And, you know, it went under, and this has been happening all across the economy. And then since Dodd Frank, the number of new banks created in the United States has dropped to 0. Woah.
Speaker: 0
02:31:16
And so the banking system is being centralized basically into 10 big banks. They act they actually have a term. They have a great term called GSIB, globally significant something something bank. And so there’s, like, 10 GSIBs, and then, basically, what’s gonna happen is those are gonna consolidate basically into the into the 3 big banks.
Speaker: 1
02:31:32
And if you get debanked by 1 of the big 3
Speaker: 0
02:31:35
You’re done. You’re absolutely done.
Speaker: 1
02:31:37
Oh my god.
Speaker: 0
02:31:39
But but think about it from the other side. If you’re the treasury secretary and you want your political NME debanked, it’s just a phone call, right, which is what which is what has been happening, which was happening under under under under the prior regime. Wow. Right? And and, again, like, at that 0. 0 new banks. Yeah. 0. Literally, it was like cardiac arrest. It was like, that’s it for new bank charters.
Speaker: 0
02:31:59
And we’ve had companies that have tried to start new banks, and it’s it’s essentially impossible because you have to comply with the wall of regulation. You you need you need to go hire your 10,000 compliance people and your lawyers, but you can’t afford to do that because you’re not big enough yet.
Speaker: 0
02:32:11
So you so you you can’t function. Like, you you can’t exist. Wow. Like, it’s not it’s ruled out. It’s by definition is ruled out. You you can’t do it.
Speaker: 0
02:32:18
It’s not financially viable. Wow. Right. So so so that happened in banking. That’s what they’ve been doing in social media. This has been the same it’s been the same.
Speaker: 0
02:32:26
And, by the way, this has happened in many other industries. By the way, this hap this has this happened. The food, you know, the food industry is greatly consolidated. That that’s a lot of what’s happened in that industry as well. And and it and it’s it’s the inner and I think what it’s the intertwining of government and the company. Right? Because because at that point, it’s like, okay.
Speaker: 0
02:32:39
Is this a private company? Yes. Like, it’s still a private company. It has a stock price. It has a CEO.
Speaker: 0
02:32:44
Does the CEO have to do everything that the relevant cabinet secretary tells him to do? Yes. He does. Why does he have to do that? Because if not, it’s going to be investigations and subpoenas and prosecutions and proctological examinations for the rest of his life. Wow.
Speaker: 1
02:32:58
Everything is So it’s essentially what we accuse the CCP of doing in China.
Speaker: 0
02:33:02
It’s the so so so if you combine banking and social media, and, and and now AI, you have basically privatized social credit score. Right? Is is is where you end up with this. Right? And this goes back to the truck restructuring. You don’t have to threaten to take away somebody’s kids.
Speaker: 0
02:33:17
You just, like you threaten to take away their insurance. You don’t threaten to take away their insurance. It’s not government insurance that’s being taken away. The same thing has happened in the insurance industry. It’s consolidated down to a small handful of companies. They’re super regulated.
Speaker: 0
02:33:27
If the government doesn’t want you to have insurance, you’re not gonna have insurance. And there’s no constitutional right to insurance. So there’s Right. So there’s there’s no appeal process. We’re back to the deep the the deep banking thing. And so that happened in banking. That’s been happening in in in Internet in tech social media generally.
Speaker: 0
02:33:42
It’s been happening in many other sectors, and then it’s it’s happening specifically in AI. And what what you have in AI is you have a set of CEOs of some of the big AI companies that want this to happen. Because, again, their big threat is that we’re gonna fund a startup that’s gonna eat their lunch. Right? It’s gonna really screw them up. And so they’re like, look.
Speaker: 0
02:33:58
If we could just take the position we have and lock it in with government protection, the trade is we’ll do whatever the government wants. Wow. And if you assume the government is controlled by, you know, people who want to censor and punish and cancel their political opponents, that’s gonna come right along with it.
Speaker: 0
02:34:11
And so that’s why when these AI systems come out, like, 9 times out of 10, they’re tremendously politically biased. You can do this today. You just go on you go on any of these systems today, and you just, like, ask you you start asking, like, really basic questions.
Speaker: 1
02:34:24
Gemini is the best example of that. Right? When they had the multiracial Nazis?
Speaker: 0
02:34:28
The black Nazis. Yeah. Once again, we’re back we’re
Speaker: 2
02:34:30
back
Speaker: 0
02:34:30
we’re back to the Nazis. Yes. So it it turns according to Gemini that Hitler had an excellent DEI policy.
Speaker: 2
02:34:35
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:34:36
Now in reality, he did not. And it’s important to understand that in reality, he did not. But, yeah, Gemini happily threw up black Nazis because it’s because it’s they programmed it to be biased. They programmed it in a political direction. There’s this guy, David Rosado, who’s been doing these analyses on the social media side, where he shows the, incidence rates of the rise of, like, all of the woke, like, language, like, in the media.
Speaker: 0
02:34:59
And there’s similar studies that have come out for the AI where you there there’s there’s studies that have been done that basically show the political orientation of the LMs because you can ask some you can ask some questions, and they’ll they’ll tell you. And they’re just, like, 9 out of 10 of them are, like, tremendously biased. And then there’s a handful that aren’t, and then there’s tremendous pressure.
Speaker: 0
02:35:16
This is one of the threats from the government is is the government basically gonna force our startups to come into compliance, not just with their trade rules, but also with all of their right? Base essentially, a a censorship regime on AI that it’s exactly like the censorship regime that we had on social media. Wow. That’s terrifying. Yeah. Exactly. And yes.
Speaker: 0
02:35:33
And and and this is my belief and what I’ve been trying to tell people in Washington, which is if you thought social media censorship was bad, this has the potential to be a 1000 times worse. And the reason is social media is important, but at the end of the day, it’s, you know, it’s, quote, just people talking to each other.
Speaker: 0
02:35:46
AI is gonna be the control layer on everything. Right? So AI is gonna be the control layer on how your kids learn in school. It’s gonna be the control layer on who gets loans. It’s gonna be the control layer on does your house open when you come to the front door. Wow.
Speaker: 0
02:35:59
It’s gonna be the control layer on everything. Right? And so if that gets wired into the political system the way that the banks did and the way that social media did, like, we are in for a very bad future. And and that’s a big thing that we’ve been trying to prevent is to keep that from happening. And and and and the Biden administration was explicitly on that path.
Speaker: 0
02:36:16
Like, they were very clearly going for that, and it was it was just, like, crystal clear that’s where it was headed.
Speaker: 1
02:36:21
And do you feel like with a second administration, they’d be even more emboldened to act in that direction?
Speaker: 0
02:36:26
Yes. 100%. Another Biden another Biden administration for sure. And then there was there was an open question around Kamala, and the open question there was just she wouldn’t as you know, she wouldn’t declare if her issues positions were the same as Biden’s or if they were different.
Speaker: 0
02:36:39
Right. And so and, you know, you could imagine a Kamala administration that had a very different approach, but she she refused to clarify any of her positions.
Speaker: 1
02:36:46
Right.
Speaker: 0
02:36:46
And so we we had to assume that they would be the same as Biden’s, which which I think is the default case.
Speaker: 1
02:36:51
Now is this, closeted sort of a perspective in Silicon Valley? Do people hide these thoughts that this administration would be bad for business?
Speaker: 0
02:37:02
I mean, much less now than
Speaker: 2
02:37:04
we
Speaker: 0
02:37:04
used to. Yeah. I mean, look. I get you know, Elon really broke a lot of Elon did 2 things that really opened a lot of this up. 1 is he he bought Twitter, which really gave us a place to talk about this stuff, all of us. But then also, he he himself, of course, started to actually express himself, and so he gave a lot of the rest of us permission structure
Speaker: 2
02:37:20
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:37:20
To be able to say these things. And then look at it’s, you know, it’s like a cascade where people are like, okay. Apparently, you cannot talk about things. Okay. I have some things to say. Yeah. Well, now look. Also, just they went too far. They tightened the screws. I mean, they they they really came at us hard.
Speaker: 0
02:37:35
And so, you know, and the harder they come at us like, we didn’t predict. When Biden won, like, we didn’t think it would have negative effects on our business. We thought, yeah, probably taxes will go up, but, like, we’ll just keep doing business. But then they did all these things. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:37:46
And it took a couple years to figure out that this was not, like, a temporary thing. Like, this was, like, a concerted campaign and that they were really coming from.
Speaker: 1
02:37:53
What agency specifically is involved in doing that?
Speaker: 0
02:37:55
Oh, I I mean, it’s they have alphabet soup, but but, like, SEC SEC tried to kill crypto very specifically. FTC, you know, was thoroughly weaponized. There’s something called the CFTC, which is the other part of the crypto puzzle, commodities, futures. Crypto there’s crypto that’s a security.
Speaker: 0
02:38:11
There’s some forms of crypto that are security and the SEC regulates. There’s other kinds of crypto that are commodity that the CFTC regulates. Is the c the CFPB I mentioned earlier. So the the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, right, decided that they were also gonna regulate AI, which they which they just volunteered for.
Speaker: 0
02:38:30
And then, you know, the FAA the FAA killed the drone industry years ago. The the reason why we don’t have the reason why the Chinese are winning in the drone the drone wars is because the FAA basically made drones
Speaker: 2
02:38:42
illegal in the US, years ago. So, like,
Speaker: 0
02:38:42
the FAA has been a big problem. You know, the, what is it? The f oh, also the FAA.
Speaker: 1
02:38:46
When you say made drones illegal, but you could still buy drones, like, what what have they done?
Speaker: 0
02:38:51
So legally, you cannot fly a drone in the US, that is beyond line of sight, if you don’t have a pilot’s license. Wow. Which means if you’re a US drone manufacturer, you have to build a system that enforces that regulation. So you But if you’re a
Speaker: 1
02:39:04
Chinese handicap your ability.
Speaker: 0
02:39:06
Yes. So either the either the US drone needs to either not fly beyond line of sight, which is not very useful. Right? Or it needs to somehow validate. We only have customers that have pilot have pilot’s licenses. China, there’s no such restriction. Right. And the Chinese, we have because we run a more open economy, the Chinese drones, you can just buy in the US and use however you want.
Speaker: 0
02:39:24
Technically, as the user of the drone, you’re out of compliance with the law, but they ignore that part. They just punish the American drone makers. Wow. And that’s why that’s why Chinese own the drone market, and that’s why 90% of the drones used by the US military and by US police are Chinese made drones, which, again
Speaker: 1
02:39:42
That sounds like a terrible security risk.
Speaker: 0
02:39:44
Is a very bad idea because every Chinese drone is both a potential surveillance platform and a potential weapon.
Speaker: 1
02:39:50
Oh, criminy. Yes. Well, I’ve seen the advancements in Chinese drones, in particular, the, choreographed dances that they do in the sky where they had do you see the dragon one?
Speaker: 0
02:40:01
Yep. Mhmm. Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker: 1
02:40:02
See if you could find that, Jamie. Chinese dragon, drone display. It’s like one of the largest ones they ever did. Yeah. It’s unbelievable how much more advanced they are.
Speaker: 0
02:40:12
Yeah. And I will tell you, the Biden administration had zero interest in addressing this. Like or worse than 0. Like, just I would say absolute contempt for the idea of a US drone industry. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:40:21
So let’s watch this thing. See if you can go full screen on that. Like, this is just a grid in the sky. Yeah. Look at this. They’re flying up together. Yeah. They did one that was at night, Jamie, because they’re all lit up.
Speaker: 0
02:40:33
Video. It’s just slow.
Speaker: 2
02:40:33
Oh, okay.
Speaker: 1
02:40:34
I can
Speaker: 0
02:40:34
skip ahead of it. So imagine those with guns.
Speaker: 1
02:40:37
Jesus Christ.
Speaker: 0
02:40:38
Coming at you. Right?
Speaker: 1
02:40:39
Well, we get to see some of that in Ukraine.
Speaker: 0
02:40:41
Yeah. A 100%. Absolutely.
Speaker: 1
02:40:42
Yeah. We’ve seen those suicide drones. Like, look at this. That is that dragon in the sky is drones. That are all lit up. I mean, that is unbelievable. Yeah. It even has a puff of fire coming out of its mouth. Yeah. That that’s incredible.
Speaker: 0
02:40:55
If they send that at a football stadium during a game with grenades on those drones Oh,
Speaker: 1
02:41:00
my god.
Speaker: 0
02:41:01
It’s carnage.
Speaker: 1
02:41:01
Dude, don’t even put that out there. Don’t put that voodoo on me, Ricky Bobby. Sorry. Sorry. Look at that heart in the sky with a heartbeat. Correct. This is insane. Correct. Yes. It’s so incredible. Yes. They had a little one like that that played over the M and M concert at, when I was at, CODA.
Speaker: 1
02:41:19
Right. At the Circuit of the Americas here, they had this giant M and M concert. It’s like a 100000 people there. And then afterwards, they had, like, drones in the sky that did little dances.
Speaker: 0
02:41:27
Chinese drones?
Speaker: 1
02:41:28
I bet. I bet they were. They weren’t like this, though. It didn’t didn’t no. It wasn’t at that level. I mean, that that’s unbelievable.
Speaker: 0
02:41:34
Enjoy the show while you can. That’s crazy Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:41:37
That that’s a Chinese thing only.
Speaker: 0
02:41:39
Yeah. Hunter. Yeah. Look. DOD runs in these. Soldiers in the field, do you do it’s very common soldiers. Just soldiers normal normal grunt soldiers in the field carry drones in their backpacks because they wanna be able to see what’s around the building or up in the roof.
Speaker: 1
02:41:49
Yeah. And these are Chinese main drones.
Speaker: 0
02:41:51
And every single one of them can be taken over by China and used for whatever they want.
Speaker: 1
02:41:54
Oh my god.
Speaker: 0
02:41:55
Anytime they want.
Speaker: 1
02:41:56
Is is the Trump administration on this?
Speaker: 0
02:41:58
They’re very they’re aware. I don’t know what they’ll do. Yeah. It’s it’s somewhere in the priority order of the things that they’re dealing, but they are, yes, they are well aware of this. And
Speaker: 1
02:42:05
Well,
Speaker: 0
02:42:05
I mean It’s the kind it it’s the kind of thing I would hope that would get get some attention.
Speaker: 1
02:42:09
Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is the brings us back to the UAP thing. Because if that’s what we’re seeing, we’re seeing super sophisticated Chinese drones that operate on some novel propulsion system. Yeah. That’s not good. Yeah. And that could be because they put ridiculous regulations on drone manufacturers
Speaker: 2
02:42:25
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:42:25
In America.
Speaker: 0
02:42:26
Yeah. That’s right.
Speaker: 1
02:42:27
And they got way ahead of us.
Speaker: 0
02:42:28
Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. We these are bad these are bad these are bad guys.
Speaker: 1
02:42:32
You’re just opening my eyes to this I always had this rose colored glasses view of our society versus the Chinese society. Our society is more open. Right. So people can innovate and come up with new startups, all these crazy ideas because there’s so much freedom in America.
Speaker: 1
02:42:47
They don’t have to deal with the government being involved in every business. Silly
Speaker: 2
02:42:53
me.
Speaker: 1
02:42:53
Well Silly me. I was wrong.
Speaker: 0
02:42:55
So this is my argument this is my argument I make geo geopolitically in DC, which is our to to if you imagine that the 21st century is gonna be, let’s say, a contest between the US and China the same way that in the 20th century, it was the US versus the Soviet Union. And, like, contest competition, cold war, maybe hot war. Yeah. But, like, that’s that’s the the basic fundamental kind of geopolitical puzzle of the 21st century.
Speaker: 0
02:43:15
Then you wanna think very clearly about the strengths and weaknesses of both yourselves and about the other side. And then as you think about how to beat the other guy, is the answer to become more like them or more like yourself?
Speaker: 1
02:43:26
Maxine Waters made that argument when it comes to social digital scores and cryptocurrency and a centralized digital currency. She was talking about that. In order to compete with China, we have to come up with a centralized digital currency.
Speaker: 0
02:43:38
Which which in my view is exactly the wrong thing.
Speaker: 1
02:43:40
Yes. I heard that. I was like, that’s a terrible idea.
Speaker: 0
02:43:42
That’s exactly the wrong thing.
Speaker: 1
02:43:43
You gotta be like China to compete with China?
Speaker: 0
02:43:45
It’s exactly the wrong thing. It’s exactly the wrong thing. You don’t want that. Because because because as you know, the China system has its problems. Like, they they terrorize their own population directly. They do impose the social credit score stuff. They do they and they they do all this stuff.
Speaker: 0
02:43:57
And then, by the way, the the here’s here’s something we have going for us, which is the Chinese system has turned on capitalism. Xi Jinping is not a capitalist, and he there is a broad based crackdown on private business in China, to the point it’s it’s with a friend of mine invest one of the leading investors in China.
Speaker: 0
02:44:11
He said every single Chinese tech founder has either left China or wants to leave China. Woah. And they’re all trying to get their money out, and they’re all trying to get their families out because it’s now too dangerous to run a tech company in China because the government might just snatch you, like, literally, physically snatch you at any point.
Speaker: 0
02:44:25
Yeah. And you may or may not come back. And And then every Chinese CEO has a political officer of the Chinese Communist Party sitting down the hall who can come in and override your decisions anytime he wants to. And and by the way, and drag you into training. Oh. This is a great thing. Okay. So you’re you’re sitting here.
Speaker: 0
02:44:39
You’re the CEO of a company with, you know, 50,000,000,000 in revenue and a 100,000 employees, and this guy from the CCP comes in and pulls you, and you sit in the conference room down the hall for 7 hours, getting, grilled on how well you understand Marx. Right? So, like, that actually happens. Right? It’s a political officers.
Speaker: 0
02:44:54
And that’s the kind of thing that happened in the Soviet Union, and that’s the kind of thing that happens in China. So you’d rather be a CEO in the US than in China for sure as long as the US system actually stays open where you can actually get all the benefits of all the power of all these incredibly smart people building companies and building products.
Speaker: 1
02:45:10
But and
Speaker: 0
02:45:10
that’s why this administration freaked us out so much is because it felt like they were trying to become way more like China.
Speaker: 1
02:45:16
See, I was not nearly as aware as I should have been about the all these things that you’re saying. I didn’t know this. I I didn’t know about the banks, and I certainly didn’t know that they were cracking down on AI the same way they cracked down on social media.
Speaker: 0
02:45:27
The AI thing was very alarming. We had we had meetings this spring that were the most alarming meetings I’ve ever been in where they were taking us through their plans, and it was And what kind of can you talk about it? Basically, just full government full government control. Like, this sort of thing.
Speaker: 0
02:45:39
There there will be a small number of large companies that will be completely regulated, controlled by the government. They they told us they told us. They just said, don’t even start don’t even start startups. Like, don’t even bother. Like, there’s just no way. There there’s no way that they can succeed.
Speaker: 0
02:45:49
There’s no way that we’re gonna permit that to happen. Wow. Yeah. They said this is already over. It’s gonna be 2 or 3 companies, and we’re just gonna we’re gonna we’re gonna control them, and and that’s that. Like, this is already finished.
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02:45:58
Oh my god. Now then when you leave a meeting like that, what do you do? You go endorse Donald Trump. Oh my god. And, again, like,
Speaker: 0
02:46:10
I’ll just tell you, like, you know, look like because I’m gonna get a lot of you know, the flack I’m gonna get for this is, you know, he’s just a crazy whatever right winger. But, like, I was a democrat. I was like a dem I was a I supported Bill Clinton in 92. I supported Clinton in 90 96.
Speaker: 0
02:46:22
I supported Gore, who I knew very well in 2000. I knew John Kerry. I supported him in o four. I supported Obama. I supported Hillary in 16.
Speaker: 0
02:46:29
Like, I was, like, a democrat in good standing. And then
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02:46:35
are you completely out in the cocktail circuit now? Like, are you allowed to hang out with people?
Speaker: 0
02:46:40
So there’s now this is actually true. There’s now 2 kinds of dinner parties in Silicon Valley. They they they fractured they’ve they’ve fractured cleanly in half. There’s the ones where every person there believes every single thing that was in The New York Times that day
Speaker: 2
02:46:52
Oh.
Speaker: 0
02:46:52
Which, by the way, is often very different than whatever was in The New York Times 6 months ago. But everybody has fully updated their views for that day, and that’s what they talk about at the dinner party.
Speaker: 1
02:46:59
And I Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:47:00
I’m no longer invited to those nor nor do I wanna go to them. And then and then there’s the other kind, which is, you know, David Saxe and, like, all these guys and all all these people and, you know, just this growing universe. You know, it’s it’s a microcosm of what’s happening more broadly in the culture, which is like, hey. Let’s actually get together and talk about things and have fun.
Speaker: 1
02:47:16
Right. But it’s so much more comforting when it’s you guys and not the MyPillow guy.
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02:47:20
You know
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02:47:20
what I mean? I was like, no disrespect, Mike, to the MyPillow guy. But you know what I’m saying? Like, I want people that are smarter than me to be saying these things.
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02:47:28
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:47:28
That’s what helps. Yeah. It helps when you say, well, this person actually knows what they’re talking about. They’re very well informed, and they understand the repercussions. They understand, like, what’s been coming their way. And there’s people like yourself that could speak about these these the plans that you’re laying out, what they were trying to do with AI is fucking terrifying.
Speaker: 1
02:47:44
That should terrify everybody. Yeah. Where you have bureaucrats are now in control of potentially the most the biggest ancient of change in the history of the human race. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:47:54
That’s right.
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02:47:55
Potentially. Yeah. And you’re gonna let what? The the people that can’t even balance the budget? Yeah. People that don’t know what the fuck is going on? That’s that sounds insane. Yep.
Speaker: 0
02:48:04
Yep. And and look, my my hope my I think I think under Clinton and Gore, I think that they they they dealt with this very I mean, look, they dealt with the Internet very differently than than than the crop are are dealing with these technologies.
Speaker: 1
02:48:14
Well, it was very different.
Speaker: 0
02:48:15
It was very different, but also they were much more Clinton and Gore, in particular, were much more understanding that you could act you you could so there used to be this thing I call the deal with a capital d, and the deal was you could be and this is what I was. You could be a tech founder. You could start company. You could create a tech product. Everybody loved you. It was great. Glowing press coverage, the whole thing.
Speaker: 0
02:48:32
You take the company public. It employs a lot of people. It creates a lot of jobs. You make a lot of money. At some point, you cash out, and then you donate all the money to charity, and everybody thinks you’re a hero. Right? It is just great. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:48:43
And this is how it ran for a very long time. And this was the deal. This was, you know, the deal. This is Clinton Gore with a 100% support of that, and they were a 100% pro capitalism in in this way and a 100% protect. And they actually did a lot to foster that this kind of environment.
Speaker: 0
02:48:55
And, basically, what happened is the last 15 years or so, the democrats culminating in this administration basically broke every part of that deal for people in my world. Like, every single part of that was shattered. Right? Where it just, like, technology became presumptively evil. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:49:09
And, like, you know, if you’re a business person, you presumptively a bad person, and then technology was presumptively had bad effects and dot dot dot, and then they were gonna regulate you and try to kill you and quash you. And then the kicker was philanthropy became evil.
Speaker: 0
02:49:19
And and this is a real culture change in the last 5 years that I hope will reverse now, which is philanthropy now is a dirty word on the left because it’s the private person choosing to give away the money as opposed to the government choosing a way to give the money. Oh. So I’ll give you the ultimate case. So here’s where I radicalized on this topic.
Speaker: 0
02:49:34
So you’ll recall some years back, Mark Zuckerberg and his wife, Priscilla, you know, they have a ton of money in Facebook stock. They created a nonprofit entity, called Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, which of which the original mission was to literally cure all disease. And this could be, like, you know, $200,000,000,000 going to cure all disease. Right? So, like, big deal.
Speaker: 0
02:49:51
They said they committed to donate 99% of their assets to this to this new foundation. They got brutally attacked from the left, and the attack was they’re only doing it to save money on taxes. Now basic mathematics. You don’t give away 90 9% of your money To
Speaker: 1
02:50:08
save money on taxes. Save money on taxes.
Speaker: 0
02:50:10
Right? But it was a vicious attack. It was, like, a very, very aggressive attack. And and the and the fundamental reason for the attack was how dare they treat that money like it’s their own? How dare they decide where it goes? Instead, tax rates for billionaires should go to 90 something percent. The government should take the money, and the government should allocate it.
Speaker: 0
02:50:27
And that would be the morally proper and correct thing to do.
Speaker: 1
02:50:29
What do you think is the root of that kind of thinking?
Speaker: 0
02:50:32
Utopian this is a Utopian collectivism. You know, it’s the it’s Socialism that works. Socialism. Yeah. It’s the is the the core idea of socialism. Like, the core idea is this this this, is is sort of let’s say radical egalitarianism. Everybody should be exactly the same. All outcomes should be exactly the same.
Speaker: 0
02:50:47
Everything should be completely fair at all
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02:50:49
times. Root of it has to be an envy.
Speaker: 0
02:50:51
Of course. Yeah. Envy, resentment. Yes. Nietzsche had this great term. I called resentiment. And it’s like turbocharged resentment. And so, the way he described it is resentiment is, envy, resentment, and bitterness that is so intense that it causes an inversion of values. Oh.
Speaker: 0
02:51:08
And the things that used to be good become bad, and the things that used to be bad become good.
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02:51:12
Oh. Right?
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02:51:12
And that’s how you Philanthropy becomes bad.
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02:51:15
Philanthropy becomes bad because it should be the state operating on behalf of the people as a whole who are handing out the money, not the individual.
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02:51:21
I was not aware of that blowback. I would have loved to read some of those comments.
Speaker: 0
02:51:25
Yeah. I
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02:51:27
would like to go to their page and see what else they comment on.
Speaker: 0
02:51:29
I’ll give you another example. Here’s another radicalizing moment for me. So my friend Sheryl Sandberg, who I worked with very closely for a long time at Facebook, you know and by the way, democrat, you know, liberal and by the way, endorse Kamala, like, very much not on the same page as me on these things.
Speaker: 0
02:51:40
She she actually worked in the Clinton administration, you know, died in the wool democrat. She wrote this book called lean in about 12 years ago. It’s this sort of feminist manifesto, and and and it basically said
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02:51:50
Lean in is our lean in. Lean in.
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02:51:52
And the thesis of lean in was that women in their lives and careers could, quote, unquote, lean in. She said what she observed in a lot of meetings was the men were leaning into the table and sitting, like, in front, and then the women were, like, leaning back and waiting to be called on.
Speaker: 0
02:52:04
She said the women should lean in. It became a metaphor for her for women should, like, lean in on their careers. They should, like, aggressively advocate for themselves to get, like, raises and promotions.
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02:52:13
Like men do.
Speaker: 0
02:52:13
They like men do. They should basically women should basically become more aggressive in the workplace and and then therefore, you know, perform better. And so it was like it was a manifesto to women basically saying be more confident, be more assertive, be more aggressive, be more successful.
Speaker: 0
02:52:24
And I I read the draft of the book when she was writing it, and I I said, well, you know, you realize you’ve written a right wing manifesto. Right? Right? Right. Right. And and she and she looks at me like I’ve lost my mind. Right? Because she’s a lifelong lifelong left, and she’s like, what do you mean?
Speaker: 0
02:52:38
And I’m like, you this book is a statement that women have agency. Right? This book is a statement that the things that women choose to do will lead to better results. That’s what people believe on the right. On the left, what people believe is that women are only always and ever victims. Wow.
Speaker: 0
02:52:51
And if a woman doesn’t succeed in her career, it’s because she’s being discriminated against. And so I said I I said I predicted when this book comes out, right wingers are gonna think it’s great, and you’re gonna get it. Like, the left is gonna come at you because you’re you’re violating the fundamental principle of of of of the left, which is anybody who does less well is a victim, which in that case is is exactly what happened.
Speaker: 0
02:53:09
The by the way, the reviews are all by women, and they tore into her. Like, in every major publication, they just, like, completely ripped her. And they’re like, how dare this rich entitled woman be telling us, you know, these would be telling women that they’re not victims and that they’re, you know, they have all this agency because every this is denial of sexism.
Speaker: 0
02:53:25
Right? It’s denial of oppression.
Speaker: 1
02:53:27
Wow. Because imagine if a man wrote a book like that for men.
Speaker: 0
02:53:30
Right. That was patriarchy. Right? That’s yeah. That would be Well,
Speaker: 1
02:53:33
but I mean
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02:53:33
That would
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02:53:33
be good. But men wouldn’t attack it.
Speaker: 0
02:53:35
Oh, right. Exactly. Right. It would be a guidebook. Yeah.
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02:53:37
That’s right.
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02:53:37
This is how you kick ass and get ahead.
Speaker: 0
02:53:39
Yeah. We call it self help.
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02:53:40
Lean in, bro.
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02:53:41
Lean in, bro. Just call it Exactly.
Speaker: 1
02:53:43
Just call it lean in, bro. Exactly right. Wow. That’s crazy. It’s like an attack for that.
Speaker: 0
02:53:48
So, again, it’s just in it’s just it’s the inversion. It’s through sentiment. It’s the inversion, which is, like, advocating on your own behalf and choosing to do things that make you What was
Speaker: 1
02:53:55
her reaction to that, Philip?
Speaker: 0
02:53:56
I would say she was I don’t wanna speak for her, but she was not not pleased. I mean, she
Speaker: 1
02:54:01
was But, also, was she shocked that you’re correct? Did you have a a follow-up conversation with her?
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02:54:06
Yeah. We
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02:54:07
we talked about it a lot.
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02:54:08
Like, goddamn it, Mark. How did you see that one coming?
Speaker: 0
02:54:11
So she was in the but the answer is she her her world view of how these things worked was from a different it was from the Clinton Gore era. Right. In which you could in which you could say things like that. You could talk like that. And by the time the book came out, it was already into the second Obama term heading in. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:54:26
And it and then the woke the woke stuff started, and then at that point, you could no longer say things like that. Wow. And everything got classified through this very hard edged. Right? Us versus them. Right? Oppressor versus oppressed.
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02:54:36
Oy. You
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02:54:36
know, kind of mindset. And so
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02:54:38
It’s such a it’s such a contrast to what we hoped would happen when Obama would be president.
Speaker: 0
02:54:43
That’s right.
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02:54:44
My thought was, okay. Look, there’s still some racism, but clearly, if you’re the baddest motherfucker you can get ahead, like, you can win, the country will vote for you. That’s not what happened. Yep. No.
Speaker: 0
02:54:56
And you can win again.
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02:54:57
You can win twice.
Speaker: 0
02:54:58
You win twice.
Speaker: 1
02:54:58
And and be like, I’ve always said Yep. Up until I’ve I’ve lost a lot of respect for him from some of the things that he said during this election cycle because I think they got desperate and they just resorted to actual lies. Right. And I thought this is crazy to see him lying, especially the very fine people hoax. Right.
Speaker: 1
02:55:15
And we played the video back and forth of what Obama said he said and what he actually said, and it’s pretty shocking because he’s very explicit. You know, he’s saying not white nationalists, not neo nazis. They should be condemned. He says that very clearly. That’s not what I’m talking about.
Speaker: 1
02:55:29
Talk about people who are protesting the taking down of the statue. Right. And when you see a guy like Obama do that, it’s such a bummer because he was the guy for me that was like our best spokesman. He was like, here’s a guy that came from a single family or a single parent household. He wasn’t some rich entitled kid who was given everything in life.
Speaker: 1
02:55:49
He’s this brilliant speaker. He he is like he’s handsome. He represents, like, what we’re hoping for. Yeah. We’re hoping for a color blind society that just treats people on the merit of who they are, and anyone can achieve. And look, here he is.
Speaker: 0
02:56:01
Yep. He made it.
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02:56:02
He made it.
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02:56:02
And then all of a sudden, identity politics goes through the fucking roof, and victim mentality becomes a thing that people choose to side with. And it it just gets real weird for a long time.
Speaker: 0
02:56:13
Yeah. That’s right. That’s right. And, like like I said, I hope they can find their way back.
Speaker: 1
02:56:18
But this lady’s still on team Kamala.
Speaker: 0
02:56:20
Oh, yeah. She she she’s
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02:56:23
She got a few lessons out of that, but not all of them.
Speaker: 0
02:56:25
Well, no. This is the if you’re, you know, if you’ve been a lifelong Democrat, this is a if you’ve been a lifelong Democrat and if that’s, you know, if if that is in this quarter, a lot of people’s value systems, then it’s it’s a real challenge. You know? Oh, yeah. That’s my parents. When your movement They’re all in. Goes in directions.
Speaker: 1
02:56:38
Well Yeah.
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02:56:39
And there’s you know? Right? And you can chew you or you can choose to follow you can choose to follow into the, you know, the craziest version of it or you can choose to say, you know what? Like, I’m still not gonna switch sides, but at least I’m gonna advocate for my team to come back. Yeah. This is Richie Torres.
Speaker: 0
02:56:51
This guy is a congressman in, in, in Queens, I think, or the Bronx. He’s actually it it it actually started out. Everybody thought he was gonna be a far lefty because he’s gay. He’s black. He’s Latino.
Speaker: 0
02:57:00
He was, like, he was, like, at least associated with the squad early on, and he’s, like, one of the guys in the Democratic party who has now stood up. And he he’s been doing this in public for the last 2 weeks saying, clearly, we have to get back to sense. Like, we we have to get back to common sense. We have to get back to moderation. Yeah. We have we have to have law enforcement.
Speaker: 0
02:57:16
We have to have you know, we can’t have crime in the streets. We have to have a border. You know, we we have to we have to get we, the democrats, have to get back to moderation in sense. And so he he is hoping to lead the party
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02:57:25
That’s great.
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02:57:26
After that.
Speaker: 0
02:57:26
I think he’s we support him, and I think he’s like a really I think he’s a very impressive guy. So there there are people like and he’s young and very energetic and, you know, you you I think he has a, you know, very bright future, but that’s the kind of person who could lead the party back.
Speaker: 1
02:57:37
Well, the big Nietzschean shift was when Dick Cheney endorsed Kamala and everybody cheered. If there’s not a better example than that, please tell me what it is because that one was fucking nuts. Like, Dick Cheney was always the hard right. Right. Like, during the Bush administration, all the lefties looked at him like that was Satan.
Speaker: 0
02:57:58
Yeah. That’s right.
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02:57:59
He was the profiteer.
Speaker: 0
02:58:00
That’s right.
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02:58:01
He was the the manipulator. He was the guy pulling the strings.
Speaker: 0
02:58:04
Yep.
Speaker: 1
02:58:04
He was the CEO of Haliburton that came the whole thing was so crazy. And to see, oh, Dick Cheney just endorsed Kamala and everybody’s like, yay. Look. Dick Cheney’s on our side. Like, what the fuck are you guys talking about? This is this is the best shift of it. Right?
Speaker: 0
02:58:19
Yeah. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. All of us are. And all of a sudden, we’re all all of a sudden, we’d we’re all neo cons. All of a sudden, as you said, all of a sudden, we’re pro war. It’s like, wait. Wait. You know? Because, like, as you know, like, the you know?
Speaker: 0
02:58:28
The the yeah. The Democrats used to be the anti war party.
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02:58:30
Yes.
Speaker: 0
02:58:31
They were the anti war party for a very long time. Yes. Yes. And yeah. It
Speaker: 1
02:58:35
Except back when they were trying to keep slavery in act. That’s part of the problem. That was
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02:58:40
a different era.
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02:58:40
You don’t realize that.
Speaker: 0
02:58:41
That was a different era. But, you know what? Coming out of Vietnam, they were definitely the anti war party for, like, you know, 30 years.
Speaker: 1
02:58:46
But isn’t that a shift as well? Yeah. It was. But the shift of the Republicans from back in the day being Abraham Lincoln Yeah. And that trying to get rid of slavery Right. And the Democrats fighting to keep it. Yep. Like, these these weird ideological swings, they happen. And, you know, we’re still attached to the idea of being a Democrat is like being a Clinton Democrat.
Speaker: 1
02:59:07
We’re we’re in this weird sort of denial of what the ideology actually stands for versus how we think of ourselves when we say I’m a democrat. I I’m a good person. Yeah. You know, I I support civil rights, women’s rights, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Down the line, I’m a Democrat. Right.
Speaker: 1
02:59:24
And if you go against that, well, now you’re against all these things that you know to be inherently important for society.
Speaker: 0
02:59:30
Yeah. That’s right.
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02:59:31
They got you.
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02:59:31
Yeah. That’s right.
Speaker: 1
02:59:32
They got you. They roped you into some crazy thing where you’re supporting war. And then there’s the big faction. Right? There’s the big free Palestine versus support Israel. Yep. Because the left always supported Israel. Yep.
Speaker: 0
02:59:43
100%.
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02:59:44
And then all of a sudden, there’s this free Palestine movement, which divides the left even further.
Speaker: 0
02:59:48
Yeah. There’s this there’s a book written some some years back, by this guy Norman Podhoretz, and that it’s great. That’s why are Jews liberal? Right. And he he was a right wing he was a right wing Jew, a very important Jewish thinker, American Jewish thinker of, like, in the sixties, seventies, eighties, and he’s like he basically is like basically, he he had this thesis that, like, these Jewish liberal voters in the US, like, basically are voting against ultimately, they’re voting for the wrong team because what they don’t understand basically is that this is sort of a path, number 1, to anti semitism, which is what’s happened, but number 2, the the basically, you’re never gonna have long term support for Israel from the left because Israel the basic concept of Israel violates the, you know, the idea.
Speaker: 0
03:00:23
That Israel is, like, literally a religious ethno state. Right. And that’s, like, inherently a right wing idea, not a left wing idea. Like, the left doesn’t have room for that.
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03:00:29
And a military superpower.
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03:00:30
In a military right. And and is able to right. Is able
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03:00:32
to right.
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03:00:32
He’s able to And
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03:00:33
it’s run by a former special forces operator.
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03:00:35
They’re very yes. Very yes. A very capable yes.
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03:00:38
Very
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03:00:38
capable soldier in
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03:00:39
his life.
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03:00:39
He’s a fucking assassin.
Speaker: 0
03:00:41
Exactly. Yeah. And so, you know, he argued that. I don’t know. It’s like, whatever, 20 years ago. He’s like, this is headed in the wrong direction. And but, you know, the argument was ignored at the time. And then, you know, at least a lot of my Jewish friends after October 7th, you know, they were completely horrified, you know, to find out, for example, the DEI was actually anti Jewish.
Speaker: 0
03:00:56
Right? Which is what everybody learned with the scandals at the universities. Right. Right? And it’s like, you know, there’s 2 ways of looking at that.
Speaker: 0
03:01:02
1 is, oh my god. The DEI is anti Jewish. Therefore, we need to add Jews to the DEI scorecard. Right?
Speaker: 1
03:01:09
Well, when we saw the the heads of Harvard and was it am I was it Yale? No.
Speaker: 0
03:01:14
It was Harvard, MIT, and Columbia.
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03:01:15
Yeah. That was
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03:01:17
Yeah. That’s right.
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03:01:17
That was just so in everyone’s face and so bananas.
Speaker: 0
03:01:21
Well and then we saw that yeah. Right. And then what we saw is that this this same sort of radicalized left had actually slid into not just anti semitism and not just anti Israel, but also pro I mean, ultimately, pro terrorist, pro Hamas. Yeah. You know, the the new acronym, right, l l g b t h.
Speaker: 1
03:01:35
Oh. Right? But there’s a bunch of other stuff in there now. There’s q. There’s 2 spirit. I
Speaker: 0
03:01:39
know. But you gotta you gotta get h in there now for Hamas.
Speaker: 1
03:01:41
Oh, boy. Really? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
03:01:42
Yeah. Of course. Of course. Of course. And so so, like, I I bring it I bring it up just as an not to take a position. Just as an example of it’s the kind of realignment. Yeah. A lot of Jewish Americans now are are having to kind of rethink fundamental questions about political structure and alliances and who who they should be part of and who they shouldn’t be part of.
Speaker: 0
03:01:58
So I I think to your point, I think, like, the whole country is going through I think we’re going through the first, like, profound political realignment probably since 19 sixties Yeah. Which is when which is when everything shifted up, you know, between Johnson and Nixon, in the south.
Speaker: 0
03:02:11
I think we’re going through, like, the most profound version of that right now, and I think it’s it’s it’s something like the multiethnic working class coalition, you know, that came together around Trump. You know, basically, again, against this sort of super exaggerated elite plus underclass, you know, kind of structure that the democrats have built for themselves.
Speaker: 0
03:02:27
And it I think it’s just it just turns out there’s just a lot more people in the middle. Mhmm. And so I think but but but by the way, including, like, a lot of a lot of black people a lot of black peep you know, black vote for Trump is way up. Hispanic vote for Trump is way up. Youth vote for Trump is way up. Way up. Gay vote is, like, all of Yes.
Speaker: 0
03:02:43
All of the identity groups the Democrats relied on all these years are
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03:02:47
union vote is is for Trump. I’m sure you’ve seen the, the map, the electoral map of California Yeah. 20242020. Yes. In contrast, it’s a crazy red wave that’s going through across the whole the most of the state is red now.
Speaker: 0
03:02:59
Those of us on the coast are gonna get pushed into the ocean.
Speaker: 1
03:03:01
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, maybe the other way. We were talking about the hopeful way that the Democrats will wake up Yeah. And come up with a more reason well, I mean, there’s obviously clear cultural pushback on all these crazier crazier issues. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
03:03:16
Include I mean, like, the giant pushback from women about biological men competing against women. I mean, this is a giant one where women are, like, well, listen, we created Title 9 for a reason. Like, we we want women’s sports to be for women. You you can’t have them for mentally ill men that think that they can be able to, just decide they’re a woman and compete against women, which is what it is in a lot of places.
Speaker: 1
03:03:38
You don’t even have to get tested. There’s not, like, some sort of a hormone protocol. It’s just like it’s just what your identity is, which is just nuts. And that’s one of the things that I think a lot of people on the left are having a really hard time justifying.
Speaker: 0
03:03:52
Yeah. Right. Because how how can you how can you deny a victim group? Right. Right. You can’t. I mean, in the in the full version of that in the extreme version of ideology, you cannot deny any you cannot deny a victim claim.
Speaker: 1
03:04:02
Well, it also comes with this weird caveat where you have to deny the existence of perverts. Right. Because a pervert, all they have to do is say, I identify as a woman, throw in a wig, and now you can go hang around the women’s room and no one could say anything. Well, you’ve you’ve emboldened and empowered one of the the worst groups in society that we’ve always protected women from.
Speaker: 0
03:04:22
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
03:04:23
And you have to pretend they don’t exist if you just wanna base it solely on identity, especially like a a self described identity. Right. You just decide and then that’s it. Right. And, you know, I mean, there’s states that have that now with prisoners that all prisoner has to do is identify with being a woman and you are now housed in women’s prisons.
Speaker: 1
03:04:44
Yep. California has 47 of them, when the last time I looked at it. Yep. And there’s 100 that are waiting on, like, a waiting list to try to get in. So you have women who, you know, especially if you’re someone who’s dealing with if you’ve ever been raped or sexually abused, and now you have to share space with a man who might be a fucking pervert.
Speaker: 1
03:05:04
Yeah. And some of these men even have some crimes that are along those lines that they’re in jail for. Yeah. It’s crazy. I mean, Canada is the worst at it. Yeah. There’s a bunch of different examples of these type of people getting into female prisons.
Speaker: 2
03:05:20
And
Speaker: 1
03:05:20
it’s just it’s insanity. Yeah. And I think the left rejects that too for the most part. This is the the sensible version of the left that is like, hey. Yeah. I’m pro gay rights. Yeah. I’m pro women’s rights. I’m pro civil whites. I’m pro choice. I’m pro this.
Speaker: 1
03:05:32
I’m antiwarmer but also, you can’t let psychos just put on a fucking dress and hang out in women’s rooms just because we wanna be kind.
Speaker: 0
03:05:41
Right.
Speaker: 1
03:05:41
Like, that’s nuts. Yeah. So there has to be some Yeah. And then there’s legitimate trans women. So, like, how do you make the distinct? Well, clearly, we have to have a fucking conversation. And if you don’t allow that conversation to take place, like, if you go to Blue Sky and you type in there are only 2 genders, you’re banned. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
03:05:57
You’re neutral.
Speaker: 1
03:05:58
Right there.
Speaker: 0
03:05:58
People have
Speaker: 2
03:05:58
done it.
Speaker: 1
03:05:58
There’s a bunch of people who have done it. It’s fun.
Speaker: 0
03:06:00
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
03:06:00
It’s fun. They have, like they’ve created a little sock puppet account, and they they say some shit that should have been a reasonable thing to say just 20 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you make me hopeful, Mark. Good. You do. You do.
Speaker: 1
03:06:11
Because you you lay things out in, like, a a really well thought out way that is not hyperbolic, and you’re you’re you’re making a lot of sense. So I’m glad we talked to you. I feel better.
Speaker: 0
03:06:22
Good. Fantastic.
Speaker: 1
03:06:24
I think the world does too. I really do. I mean, I’ve talked to a lot of people, even people that are Democrats. They said I feel better that Trump won.
Speaker: 0
03:06:30
It every day, it feels better. It’s just like the the and it’s not you know, it’s it’s feels like just things are opening up.
Speaker: 1
03:06:36
It’s the Obama campaign. It’s hope and change.
Speaker: 0
03:06:38
Yeah. Hope and change. Never? It’s hope you changey.
Speaker: 1
03:06:40
This is kind of actually hope and change. Yeah. This is actually it.
Speaker: 0
03:06:45
It feels like oxygen return. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
03:06:46
Well, thank you very much, Mark. I really appreciate you. Tell everybody your Substack, how to find you on social media.
Speaker: 0
03:06:52
Oh, I’m on I’m on I’m on x under pmarque. I’m on Substack. Google me. Alright. Ask perplexity.
Speaker: 1
03:06:58
Alright.
Speaker: 0
03:06:58
Ask chat gpt, and it will deny that no. It will it will it will happily tell you that I exist at least at least last at least last time I checked.
Speaker: 1
03:07:04
So What about Wikipedia?
Speaker: 0
03:07:06
Yeah. We we don’t know. Yeah. We we don’t know if that if, Catherine is still working.
Speaker: 1
03:07:10
Always a pleasure, Mark. Thank you
Speaker: 2
03:07:11
very much.
Speaker: 1
03:07:11
Appreciate you. Appreciate you. Alright. Bye, everybody.
