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#2222 – John Fetterman Podcast Episode Description
John Fetterman is an American politician serving as the junior United States senator from Pennsylvania since 2023.
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#2222 – John Fetterman Podcast Episode Top Keywords
#2222 – John Fetterman Podcast Episode Summary
In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, the discussion centers around mental health, political divisiveness, and personal recovery journeys. A significant portion of the conversation is dedicated to the topic of depression, with a guest sharing their personal experiences of battling depression, especially after achieving significant milestones. The guest emphasizes the importance of transparency and seeking help, recounting their decision to seek treatment at Walter Reed and the positive impact it had on their life. They highlight the paradox of depression, where success can sometimes exacerbate feelings of despair, and stress the importance of staying committed to recovery.
The episode also touches on broader societal issues, including the current political climate and the need for constructive dialogue. The guest expresses hope for a peaceful and collaborative future despite the current divisive atmosphere, emphasizing the importance of being part of conversations that promote understanding and cooperation.
Additionally, the episode includes a discussion on lifestyle choices, such as diet, with a mention of the carnivore diet and its personal benefits for the guest. The conversation underscores the importance of making informed choices for personal well-being.
Overall, the recurring themes in the episode are the significance of mental health awareness, the power of open dialogue in overcoming personal and societal challenges, and the importance of making conscious lifestyle choices. The guest’s candid sharing of their struggles and recovery serves as an inspiration for listeners to seek help and remain hopeful in their own journeys.
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#2222 – John Fetterman Podcast Episode Transcript (Unedited)
Speaker: 0
00:01
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
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00:03
The Joe Rogan experience.
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00:06
Ai meh day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Alright, man. We’re rolling. What’s happening? Nice to meet you.
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00:14
Oh, hey, man. It’s so it’s awesome to be here, man. Like, Ai gotta say hi to my my son. He’s just so thrilled. He’s ai, you know, he’s 15, and he literally freaked out. And, like, oh my god. Vatsal and all of his friends are gonna definitely be watching too.
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00:26
Yeah. What’s his name?
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00:27
Carl with a k, and I I met I met a Carl in the lobby, but, it’s a c. But,
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00:33
that’s sai not a human. A nonhuman Carl. Yeah. Well, what’s up human Carl? Yeah. So first of all, are you the only guy that figured out that you don’t have to wear suits when you’re a senator?
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00:45
Yeah. No. It’s it’s, I’m sorry. What’s that?
Speaker: 0
00:49
I said, are you the only guy that figured out that you don’t have to wear suits as a senator?
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00:54
Oh, okay. Yeah. No. Sai well, I I know it might it seems strange, but it’s like, I mean, I’m a I’m a I’m a bigger guy, and and I don’t really can’t afford, custom anyway. And I hate, I’m claustrophobic, and I hate them being in that ai of shit. And, I’ve always dressed like like shit. And, you know, and and I know.
Speaker: 1
01:16
And and then that whole thing kinda got away, of us. People assumed that there was a a dress code issue there. Yeah. And I’m like, no. I wasn’t behind that behind that. But, of course, everybody pointed at the at the dude that dresses like a slob.
Speaker: 1
01:29
And and then the whole the whole nation just had, like, a meltdown. Like, oh my god. The senate’s on fire because, I dress like a slob. But but, my life is just much better in DC that unless that I’m gonna be on the floor, that I’m not gonna be you’re never gonna see me in a suit.
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01:46
And, I think that’s a more authentic ai of way that I live, and Ai don’t judge anybody on how they dress or those things. I I just dress this way, and there’s also practical issues as well too. Like, I have I have chopstick legs, and I have no ass, and I can’t keep pants on.
Speaker: 1
02:04
And and hoodies and hoodies, it’s like I don’t have to iron that shah. You know? So it it’s just, like, easy. It’s comfort, and it’s ai I I just feel like that’s I meh, and if somebody judge meh, and people have said that, but it’s like I’d rather have somebody know. And I I promise you, a lot of people and dudes, especially in Western Pennsylvania, love to wear suits all year.
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02:27
I mean, excuse me, shorts all year, and dress like that, but to meh, it’s about comfort and practical.
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02:34
Well, I mean, it makes sense. The the whole dress code thing of wearing suits and you’re you’re more serious because you have certain clothing on, it seems pretty silly. Ai sorry. What’s that? Are you so let’s let’s tell everybody what’s going on with your iPad. So because you had a stroke, you have
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02:55
Oh, yeah. Difficulty
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02:56
do you have difficulty hearing?
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02:58
Or Well, no. I can hear just Sai can hear just perfectly right now, and but, there’s just the the one kind of a lingering issue. There’s a lingering issue, and and sometimes Sai lose just a couple steps on time. And then now after that, that’s the only thing, and thankfully, the stroke never touched my intellect. Thanks. But the but the stroke nearly killed me.
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03:20
And, again, I don’t, but, I use captioning in situations just like this, in interviews. That’s so that’s ai I can I can really make sure exactly what’s being sai, and then I can able just participate? If somebody wears the glasses, it doesn’t mean that they’re illiterate. It just means they just that’s a tool that allows them to participate or drive or those things.
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03:41
And it’s that same thing, and a lot of people across America use captioning to watch movies and TV, and that’s really no different than that.
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03:49
So it doesn’t affect your intellect, but it does affect your hearing. Is that what’s going on?
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03:55
No. I I can hear, and I can listen to music. The difference with music, for example, is is that as long as there’s muscle memory, I I can I can remember all of those kinds of music things? But it seems unlikely at this point that it’s, there are not gonna be any ai of new new favorites, emerging like that because
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04:13
Sai you essentially only can listen to the same old music forever?
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04:16
Yeah. No. It’s yeah. It’s yeah. It I I mean, all of the all the classics, like, you know, Metallica, Motorhead Motorhead, the Cult, all those kinds of things. Like, I haven’t lost any of, you know, the deaf deaf lip and those things. Well, and I I saw the the, the record of Ai excuse me, Whitesnake. Yeah.
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04:36
But all those things. Yeah. Ai know. I mean I mean, I Ai think we’re both in the fifties. Right? And Mhmm. You know, we grew up with Yeah.
Speaker: 1
04:41
With the with the crew and and all those kinds of things. So, some some people might judge me based on my my taste on music, but, I mean, that’s that’s ai where it’s been.
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04:52
Listen, people are gonna judge you no matter what. You’re a big giant guy who wears hoodies and you’re a senator. Ai, so, like, no matter what, they’re gonna judge you. Who cares? But I’m just trying to, like, understand, like, what what is going on with the captioning because you you can hear, but so there’s some sort of a disconnect between hearing and understanding.
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05:13
Like, what is it?
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05:14
Yeah. I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily disconnect. It’s just it’s it’s just about being precise Okay. On it just to make sure that so if, you know, if, like, for an interview just to make make sure of those things. So it’s really just about captioning. It just really, it’s just a tool. No difference.
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05:30
I mean, for this this is ai my my eyes, in the sense for glasses that it just
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05:34
Right. I understand. So it just gives you a little bit more precision in what you’re saying
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05:39
Yeah.
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05:39
And understanding. What what what was it like running for senator right after recovering from a stroke? That had to be a nightmare.
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05:47
Yeah. I I don’t recommend that. I I I I don’t recommend that.
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05:52
Because you seem to have recovered quite a bit since then.
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05:56
Oh, yeah. No. Uh-uh. During that time, you were really struggling. And Oh, sure. Abs absolutely. Like, it was it was a it was a rough conversation after that. They they brought me into the hospital, and then I I went under, and then I I woke up, and they said they, they said, hey. We got it.
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06:23
We got it. We got the clot, the the clot that that essentially just ai killed me. And I’m like, oh, that’s good, and then just kinda went back under. And, at that point, I had no idea where we were at on those things. And then I had the next morning, I woke up, and then they, a doctor came on.
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06:44
And he had kind of a a grim kind of a look on his face and things, and my dad was there sitting next to me at the bed. And Sai was like, well, hey, doc. I mean, what’s, what things what do you think? What do you like? And he’s like, well, you know, your your your heart is functioning at an incredibly low kinds of percentage.
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07:06
And, and I’m like, well, well, well, what do you what do you think? And and he was like, well, you know, I mean, you know, there’s there’s some issue issues, and I’m like, well, are we talking?
Speaker: 0
07:22
This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. I might not have worked in traditional offices, but I ai had many different jobs in my day. And while there are many different types of offices, one thing is for sure, choosing the right candidate for any office is a huge responsibility.
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07:37
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Speaker: 0
08:02
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Speaker: 1
08:33
You know, maybe a year a year ai of thing. And and, like, and I’m like,
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08:40
And this was all while you were running for senate?
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08:43
Yeah. Yeah. This was, this was after this was after this was after this was, 3 days before the primary.
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08:49
Oh my god.
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08:50
Ai was on my I was on my way to an event, and and my wife, Giselle, she she’s like, you’re you’re having a stroke because, they had that classic kinds of, where, you know, half of my face. I didn’t know that, but it kinda just, you know, just Slumped. Yeah. And and and then they hotline me over to the hospital, and I wouldn’t I wouldn’t have survived if we were in a different I mean, there’s parts of Pennsylvania, and that’s that’s part of the tragic, that, if I wasn’t close to the the kinds of hospital that I was, it’s a 100% that Ai wouldn’t have survived that.
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09:25
Wow. And it got me there in enough time, and they were able to there was an expert there. And and I I actually had I I met that doctor that’s that literally saved my life, and I’m like, oh my god. And he usually wasn’t based in that hospital. He was usually out of Delaware, but he happened to be there.
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09:44
And and that, and he was here to to give me an an award for, you know, you know, being that kind of a an advocate for those things. I’m like, hell, you you deserve you deserve the award on that. And and, what incredibly lucky. Yeah. And and then, and then I I asked, really looking for, like, a countdown of, like, woah. What’s the prognosis?
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10:08
And and I really there wasn’t much there on that, and I had to, like, was I going to serve survive for long, or, you know, what’s that gonna look? And then, of course, the entire majority on the senate really was on the middle of that, and that’s a big responsibility after that.
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10:25
And then, so the the primary, it happened. And then I actually had a a really strong win, and I won all of 67 counties. Pennsylvania, 67 counties, and we carried every county, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and all across Pennsylvania. But at that point, I had a responsibility. It’s like, am I able to recover, or we’re a kind of we’re gonna sai am I gonna be okay?
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10:54
And I wouldn’t recommend being in that in that situation, but I I made a a commitment. More than anything, I was more worried, about being being around to be a dad. I mean, I have 3 I have 3 young kids, and my my wife, you know, she lived through all of this. So at that at that point, it it arya I was in the hospital for about 10 days. And yeah. And I start to get better and better.
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11:23
The the strength started to come back a little bit, but I it was still rough. And it was very, very clear, though, that I had a capacity to it’s been impaired on on hearing and those kinds of interaction and those things. Sai, but but but that’s the thing. But but I had to decide by August 15th, and that’s actually that’s my birthday, ironically, that, if I I step down, by then or before, then they’re gonna have to find somebody to replace me on the ai, and that was gonna be my drop, my dropout day on that.
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11:58
So what was the operation? How did they do it? How did they remove the clot?
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12:04
Well, it it it’s, I it’s an I mean, I had to originally I had to go back to I have to learn how to how to talk and speak. You know, I went to a speak therapist and have interaction and those kinds of things, and my hearing and those kinds of things were still impacted by ai.
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12:24
And they had to monitor my heart because it was, it effectively, stopped. I found out after the fact that it actually stopped, and then, that my heart had to recover. So there was 2 kinds of things working there, you know, my my heart. And then right before the primary, they walked in, and they said, well, here here’s what I suggest. Here’s what I suggest. Now we are going to put a pacemaker.
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12:50
We’re gonna put in a pacemaker, and, and we’re like, hey. That’s that’s the best thing. So they they put that device right here. And for anyone that if you’re not really with that is a pacemaker, but that that, that manages your heart, you know, because I had a significant issue with AFib, and and that’s really what what did that to my heart.
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13:09
And, they put that in, and then, that was that was that was right before the meh. And they put me under, and, I, Ai
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13:21
What year was this?
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13:25
This sai, 22. 2022.
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13:27
And before you had this stroke, had you ever had any issues before with clotting or anything like was this like a
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13:34
Not with clotting. Not with clotting. You know, my I have for good re for good things and for for bad things, my heart was just like my father’s, you know. And he had an issue with afib, and he was in the hospital for
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13:47
So it’s a genetic.
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13:48
Yeah. A genetic. And, but Ai didn’t and it was never an idea it was never an idea that, I was gonna even having a stroke. That that wasn’t part of the at least ai thinking. I I knew that I was in distress. You know, I could tell that my heart was was was was in problem, and I was just gonna get through this primary.
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14:08
I mean, there’s a lot running on that. Mhmm. And then that’s, that it didn’t work out because the stroke hit 3 days before, and and then that forced me, and that put me on an incredibly different kind of a of a path after that.
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14:23
And so where do they go in when they’re removing the clot? Do they have to cut your skull open? Like, how do they get it out of there?
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14:30
They went up they went up, in your vein, in your meh, and they went up in. And and it’s just it’s a remarkable technology that
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14:38
Through your meh.
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14:38
Yeah. All the way up to your brain. And they just sucked it out. And they Wow. They they actually had, an x y an x-ray or whatever. And you could sai that, hey, we got it out. And I actually got to see, although I really was still kind of out of it. But that was the clot that that all but took took my life. And, so, I mean, there there were a lot of things there.
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15:01
You know, suddenly, your, you know, mortality was kinda, like, put right there in front of it
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15:05
Yeah.
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15:06
On and through that.
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15:07
Do they have any idea what caused the clot? Is there do they understand, like, what happened to you? I’m always my my grandmother, had an aneurysm, and, it was a horrible situation. They didn’t find her, for several hours. Afterwards, my grandfather came home and she wasn’t in the house, and then he found her in the backyard.
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15:28
She had collapsed, and they gave her 730 minutes to ai, and she lived for 12 years like that. It was horrible. My grandfather had to take care of her. It was it was really, really rough. So I’m always, like, really concerned with that kind of stuff. Like, I don’t like, what causes it? Do they know?
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15:49
Yeah. Well, it’s I Ai mean, I had, for the first time in my life, and I hope it’s the last time that I’m, confronted by this idea that the the doctors weren’t able to provide any kinds of certainty, or it’s like, oh, yeah, man. You’re gonna be okay or things are gonna be okay.
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16:07
That that wasn’t,
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16:09
you know don’t know what caused it?
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16:12
Well, I mean, it it was afib, and and and my heart weakened. And the stress of the of the primary and on the ongoing kinds of issues, it was already weakened about that issue earlier, and everything kinda came together. And my I guess meh heart deteriorated to the point where that that caused the clot. And then the the clot, that’s what nearly took ai took my life.
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16:38
Sai then you have to go to work. So now you are an elected senator, and you have to go to work in the middle of recovery.
Speaker: 1
16:47
Yeah. It’s, I I I think, I Ai mean, it it it’s it’s so diff it’s, I had a significant responsibility, to to to stay in that and and winning through all of those things, and that’s that was, that was difficult enough. It was an important conversation, and we had to run a campaign. We had to run a campaign.
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17:17
When I was it was difficult, and I wasn’t working at the kind of capacity that was necessary, and that’s we had to run up to the, 15th August to decide if we’re gonna stay in that because there’s a lot riding on that.
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17:32
And you were also competing against doctor Oz, which was weird. You know, this guy who’s a celebrity doctor who’s at least a little shady.
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17:45
No. It it’s, it it necessarily was the the yeah. I I think, I you know, so we were talking about captioning early right now, and, I I think we’re having an issue with some of the the the captioning right now here.
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18:00
Is it not showing up?
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18:01
Yeah. There I think there’s a there’s a little bit of a delay.
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18:04
Well, maybe it’s the way I said shady. Yeah. He’s a little shady. Like, he he had been in trouble for talking about miracle diet remedies that weren’t miracles at all, and he I believe he got brought in front of Congress. So it was a little odd that that guy was running for sana at all. Was he from Pennsylvania?
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18:23
Yeah. Well, doctor doctor Oz yeah. I I think I think from a technology, I think we have to address the the the Oh, is
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18:29
it messing up right now?
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18:30
Yeah. I I think the captioning. The the captioning is running a little bit behind on here. So can we make some technological Stop
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18:37
and have her Sure. Fix it. Yeah. Okay. We’ll have her come fix it.
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18:40
Yeah. Okay. We’ll pause here,
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18:42
ladies and gentlemen. We’ll be right back.
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18:44
Yeah. I think we’re I think we are good I think we’re good to go. We We’ll take we put this on the Ai Fi, so it’s it’s working great.
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18:49
Alright. We’re back. So what I was just saying that it was odd that you were running against doctor Oz and he was just ai
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18:55
of Doctor Oz. Yeah. I mean, doctor Oz. We’re a guy. Yeah. And and he’s, he used to be you know, people used to thought he was, like, really brilliant. I mean, he was like he was like an amazing kind of surgeon, celebrity, and then he turned his career into, like, on TV. And then he started to pitch more kinds of questionable kinds of things and kind of bullshit kind of stuff.
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19:17
Yeah. And
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19:17
I I don’t understand why somebody would would change, his reputation. I mean, he was really revered in in that, and I was I wouldn’t even be I would have been comfortable to him operate on me, but, but he kinda lost that. And what was also pretty funny is that he clearly he lived in New Jersey, and so we were just like, hey.
Speaker: 1
19:39
We we need to use that and point out that. Sai, we just we decided early on that we arya gonna just, like, hey. You know, it matters. It’s ai, I mean, there’s nothing wrong with living on New Jersey, but it it probably is an issue if you’re running for for the Sana. Sai and and I really have, like, an an ethos is that I’m I’m not ever gonna be mean, and I’m not gonna be personal about that.
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20:01
So we ai to have a lot of fun with the fact that he lives in New Jersey, and we just really, just kept hitting him, hitting him. And I we had Snooki did, like, a cameo saying, gee, Mehmet, good luck. You know, I know it’s things are going rough now, but you’re gonna be able to come back to New Jersey, and and that got viral.
Speaker: 1
20:18
And we did a lot of those viral kinds of of moments. And, you know, they have this thing where they have what’s really penetrated, and, you know, they have circles on things, ai, what what’s really part of, like, people asking about doctor Oz. And one of the zeros, the o’s was, he’s weird, but the biggest one, New Jersey. I mean, literally, New Jersey was.
Speaker: 0
20:37
That was the biggest one?
Speaker: 1
20:38
Yeah. Ai Well, Pennsylvania and
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20:40
New Jersey, even though they’re neighbors, they do have a bit of a rivalry.
Speaker: 1
20:44
Yeah. Well, of course. And, you know, people have to understand that it’s ai it’s like that funny thing. And, I mean, it it it borders with with Pennsylvania. And and that that it really matters. It matters
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20:54
to that.
Speaker: 1
20:55
And, of course, doctor Oz was, he was strange, in some sense, and we always ai to have fun with making fun of him. Are you a fan are you a fan of The Simpsons? Yeah. Yeah. But we we matched up perfectly with doctor Nick. You know, doctor Nick, doctor Oz.
Speaker: 1
21:11
And we found all the the weird shit that doctor Nick would say, and then they have a clip of doctor Oz saying those kinds of thing. And and then and then that’s that’s where it was, and we had a lot of fun with that. And things we we all figured out well, we have we’ve essentially, we chose to ai empty the clip, metaphorically, and really start hitting him. You know?
Speaker: 1
21:33
We went up on TV throughout the summer, and he was really put on his back. And he was essentially thinking he could kinda take take the the summer off. And then our polling, we got up about 10, 11 points and and things. You know, if anyone’s listening ever heard of the 538, you know, they they track on those those races.
Speaker: 1
21:52
And the highest percentage we had to win was, I think, about 84%, and things kept going great, really, really, great. And then I had to decide on my birthday on August 15th, and things were going so well. And I thought things I’m like, okay. Then we decided to stay on that race, and that’s and that’s what we did.
Speaker: 1
22:13
And then, you know, post Labor Day when and, oh ai gosh, we just got, we got nuked in in a way that, it’s never been experienced that before. And then
Speaker: 0
22:27
How so? What do you mean?
Speaker: 1
22:29
Oh, a a $100,000,000 of paid media to destroy you. I mean, just tear you apart. Every aspect of your life. $100,000,000 they spent. A $100,000,000 So for
Speaker: 0
22:41
a job that pays how much?
Speaker: 1
22:43
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, just oh, it came from from PACs, from doctor Us. Doctor Us put in 20 I think $28,000,000.
Speaker: 0
22:49
How crazy is that? Because, like, what is senate what what does it pay being a senator?
Speaker: 1
22:56
You know, pay being a senator? Yeah. It’s it’s a $174,000. Yeah. Ai sai ai Sai talk about
Speaker: 0
23:04
this? Please.
Speaker: 1
23:04
I I don’t understand why, you know, some incredibly wealthy dudes will spend tens and tens of 1,000,000 of dollars just to to to take that. And I I try to, tell people, okay, there’s no glamour here. Ai just talked about that in a an interview.
Speaker: 0
23:20
Do you think he wanted to become president and this was ai a step to being president?
Speaker: 1
23:24
I guess everybody wants the ai throne. I I get it, but it’s it’s The iron throne. It’s really not, and but it also it’s a different it’s a different kinds of, skills, and it it really doesn’t transfer over very well, on that. But right now in in Pennsylvania, right now, David McCormick, a Connecticut man Connecticut man, he’s running in Pennsylvania, and he lives in Connecticut, and he’s incredibly wealthy.
Speaker: 1
23:49
I think he’s worth 3 or $400,000,000, and he’s spending the same race in Wisconsin. They’re dropping crazy and and really, like, that’s an important conversation that the real problem in American politics for me is is, Citizens Ai and unlimited money. When when they decided that money is speak, and now that turns the whole thing in a a an incredibly damaging right now, there’s been at least more than half a $1,000,000,000 half a $1,000,000,000 on the table in Pennsylvania just for president, not not not just not just, the senate races and other house seats.
Speaker: 1
24:29
And and I was the most, at least at that point, was the most expensive senate race in history, And they it was over 300, $330,000,000, for for that one seat. And all of those dollars, they’re spent to destroy and tear you apart. And then, Fox News, I was their top top target for 4 months, and social media and I I stayed out of that.
Speaker: 1
24:56
I I I didn’t enjoy, but, social media, all the conservative influencers, everything, and it just tore me apart. And at that point, at the end of September, it it was, I mean, I I couldn’t get away from it. And, it really it’s like until you’ve had a $100,000,000 to to destroy you, it’s it’s sai it’s a next level kind of thing.
Speaker: 1
25:21
And then everyone was they were saying, well, he’s a vegetable, you know, he’s a retard, or he’s lost his his brain and all kinds of things, and then that wasn’t true. But but the kinds of terrible things and those kinds of very personal things, and it just got incredibly ugly, in a way.
Speaker: 0
25:40
What? The yeah. That has gotta be a terrible experience to to realize that there’s so much money being spent just to attack you and that you’re you’re a part of this very very large and corrupt machine that’s going after you just because they wanna control the state. And it’s a giant swing state,
Speaker: 1
25:58
of course. And Yeah. The Senate, the whole Senate. Yeah. The the the whole Senate was, in fact, we we actually we flipped that speak. And that’s the first ai, I think, in the forties or fifties that we’ve had 2 Democratic senators in Pennsylvania. Usually, it’s been a a ram and a Republican.
Speaker: 1
26:14
And now, because we flipped that seat, that’s it’s mathematically it’s possible to to retain the majority in the sana, but it’s gonna be still fairly diff difficult because we have Montana, very, very red state, obviously, and and that’s really what the Republicans have put a a significant bet to make sure that they can flip Montana.
Speaker: 1
26:34
And then if Montana falls, then they’re gonna keep the the major or they’re gonna get the majority unless there’s, like, a really surprise one, but, that it may be more ai difficult.
Speaker: 0
26:45
Do you think that money is the the biggest problem in American politics? The this ability to spend insane amounts of money.
Speaker: 1
26:55
Yeah. I mean, just imagine if you were a movie studio and you’re putting out a you’re you’re gonna put out a movie, and a sai rival studio has a $100,000,000 to tell America that movie sucks. You know, that’s shah. And it’s crazy. And it’s it’s it’s it just there’s always gonna be unlimited money because it’s all about the control of the senate or the house or the the presidency.
Speaker: 1
27:17
And when when money is is, speech, it’s gonna be unlimited. And and where what what happens? It’s like, well, that’s TV and on on social, and it’s gonna be, how can I destroy and break the this this individual? And that’s where it is, and it gets incredibly sana, and and it has it has an impact. I mean, that certainly it has for meh.
Speaker: 1
27:41
And until we have unlimited money, it’s gonna meh, you know, more and more mean, personal, and expensive. And if you look at the 1,000,000,000, you know, 1,000,000,000 of dollars that’s spent, how what we could have done for our society, the kinds of reals that we could build and other things, if we didn’t spend all those money to tear each other apart.
Speaker: 0
28:04
Yeah. It’s it’s very strange, and it sets a terrible tone for the rest of the country. It because it these races, even though when they’re over, people go back to a certain level of civility, It’s already been established that this is on the table. These personal attacks, this evil vicious propaganda taking things out of context, conflating people’s words.
Speaker: 1
28:28
Yeah. No. You you you have you know, you take any, a quote, take it out of context, click that shit, put $10,000,000 behind that, and that’s in front of, you know, millions of eyeballs right there spontaneously on vatsal. And it just it’s directly right at you, and there’s it’s it’s unlimited money.
Speaker: 1
28:47
I mean, you know, when you look back on this race, it’s like you are gonna be stunned just how much money is put in that, how crazy those ads are, and just you can’t get away from it. Like Montana. Montana has, I think, 6 or 700,000 vote voters, and they’ve dropped a quarter of a $1,000,000,000.
Speaker: 1
29:07
I I don’t know how you could even spend a quarter of a $1,000,000,000 in Montana. It’s like if you have a $100,000 in cash, you have to pay that in going to a McDonald’s. Ai don’t know how they do that, but I promise you, everybody in Pennsylvania or in any other these kinds of contested states, they just can’t get away from that shit.
Speaker: 1
29:27
And at this point, they just stop paying attention to it. It’s it just it’s ai it’s it’s noise. It’s toxic kinds of noise.
Speaker: 0
29:34
And it does. It sets a tone for the whole country that we’re willing to engage in this way.
Speaker: 1
29:39
Oh, yeah. No. It’s ai that’s the thing. It it it turns everything into a a ai vice or or or worse. Yeah. And it it is about trying to destroy that person and to to convince the other people that you are the worst thing in the world. You’re Mhmm. You’re a Marxist. You’re a communist, or you’re, it just all kinds of things, and it’s it’s the lowest lowest denominator.
Speaker: 1
30:02
And if you really wanna fix American politics, I mean, there’s there are issues, but I promise you, if you removed that, that would be a dramatic ai of thing, and we all have to play that game. Some of us, like myself, I I got a lot more of my money from small dollar donations, like like Bernie Bernie. I know he’s been on the show. Bernie.
Speaker: 1
30:24
But then other ones, it’s like everyone chases the bigger the bigger checks. It’s undeniable there too. And it’s so disingenuous, and there’s PACs, and there’s other kinds of organizations. One way or another, it’s just it’s just the way to funnel tens of $1,000,000 to just tear someone apart.
Speaker: 0
30:41
What was your background before you got into politics?
Speaker: 1
30:45
I was a social I was a social worker, and I I I came to a very, a very deeply broken and fractured, fracture, community. And I actually started helping young men and women get their, GEDs and just kinda getting their lives back on track in that sense. And then that’s why I, I did that for several several years, and then I decided I wanted to run for mayor and mayor of a of a small of a of a small town.
Speaker: 1
31:13
And, we had problems with, inequality, in a community that ai% of the population, abandoned the community and left. And if anyone’s aware of the US Speak, I mean, I live right now across the street from that iconic steel mill. I mean, that’s really that that used to be America’s Silicon Valley. Like, about half of the world’s steel used to be manufactured there, but now so much has changed.
Speaker: 1
31:42
And then I ran for mayor and a small town mayor, and and then that turned into well, I decided, like, the kinds of issues that were meaningful to me and the personal kinds of experiences, I I just thought, hey. I wanna project my kinds of experiences and my values, and I started, to I ran for I ran for the first time in 2016. I ran for the senate.
Speaker: 1
32:04
I mean, it’s pretty ai strange that you have a small town mayor running for the United States senate. And, but, I mean, we had no money. I mean, 0 zero money on that. But we just we’d had a really, like, grassroots kind of a thing, and we got out across Pennsylvania. And, you know, we came up a little short, but we we pulled in 20% of the of the votes, which that was pretty pretty people thought that was pretty remarkable, and I carried my home, county, which is Allegheny.
Speaker: 1
32:34
That’s the 2nd largest, and that really ai of set the stage, to run for lieutenant governor a couple years later after 2016. But 2016, though, that was where America met Donald Ram, and and I was I was early, you know, turning the alarm off, saying, hey, we have to be concerned here.
Speaker: 1
32:53
Like, you know, Trump has connected with people, in ways, that it’s ai we have to be concerned. And I’ll never forget. It was June in 2016, and I was a I was a I was a surrogate for, for Clinton. And and, Trump announced, hey. I’m showing up in a town called Munecin Munecin, which is a small, steel town in the valley down from from ours.
Speaker: 1
33:16
And I’m like, why the why is he showing up in I mean, that’s not that ai, so either he’s crazy or they’ve they’ve plugged into something, and, like, I have to see that. So I tried to get into that just to kinda see what was going on. But, you know, they they recognized me, and they said, yeah. Get the fuck out.
Speaker: 0
33:34
But you’re hard to hide.
Speaker: 1
33:35
Yeah. And and so but but they’re like, they figured out that they have to connect and to make that kind of an argument to go to these kind of places, and it it it it did. It resonated. And you started to see a lot of the signs and a lot of the energy, and it’s like, hey. You know, there’s there’s a there’s a problem.
Speaker: 1
33:53
And the the Clinton campaign, everybody assumed that she was gonna, you know, run away with it. Yeah. And and they made they made the the mistake of just showing up in Philadelphia, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh and assume that they were gonna be okay, but but a lot had slipped.
Speaker: 1
34:10
And now the arya, Trump created margins that were unheard. Like, you know, we referred to them as Romney margins. So in other words, you have red counties, and Romney would they would cover those by about 60 to ai, and Trump did. He created eighties eighties. We were losing 80 20, 80 20.
Speaker: 1
34:33
And, like, well, yeah, that’s a small county, but, yeah, you multiply that by 57 57 other counties, and that’s how they scale up. And that’s how he won, and he won by 45,000 votes. And that’s why he captured the blue wall, and that made him president. And here we are right now.
Speaker: 1
34:52
The the the blue wall is they’re both fighting on the the blue wall, and the blue wall is Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan.
Speaker: 0
35:01
When when you were running, when during 2016, what were you trying to accomplish? Like, what what did you want to do that you felt like you could uniquely
Speaker: 1
35:12
provide a service for? Well, it wasn’t I just think it was just different. I’m like, hey. I was running I was running for about forgot forgotten places, people where Meh turned their backs on them, and talking about those those kinds of important issues, like, living wage, abandoning, the industrial parts of of Meh.
Speaker: 1
35:34
You know, some people watching, what what things have been left behind in places like Braddock. It’s ai, it’s astonishing. 90% of people left, and 90% of the buildings are gone, and that whole region has just been, just, thrown thrown away. So I just wanted and I didn’t you know, there was a path. I mean, there were 2 other people, in the primary, and I thought I could maybe split.
Speaker: 1
36:02
I could split the other 2 and just sneak by and get 33% plus one extra vote, but I I came up a little short because I had no money, because it’s always going to be about money. And then, Katie McGinty, she won, but she lost. And and then that that was that same ai, and then, and that the same year that that Trump won.
Speaker: 0
36:24
And so since you’ve been in, since you’ve gotten into the sana, what meaningful change have you been able to accomplish there?
Speaker: 1
36:32
Well, Ai again, you’re you’re a freshman. And, you know, my colleague and one that was was just here, senator Vance, I mean, we were both in the same cycle. We both ran in 22, so we’re both there for less than 2 years. And it’s really based on seniority, and it’s just kinda like, hey.
Speaker: 1
36:51
Get on the end of that line. You know? Sai you are a freshman, and it’s you know, your influence is, you know, at least, in the institution arya are limited in some sense. But if you have a bigger platform, and I did, and I ai to have those kinds of impacts and having those conversations.
Speaker: 1
37:08
But my my first couple, first half of that first year, that was a little took a different, detour because, you know, I I was dealing with with depression. I was in a depression, and I realized that I was in a in a bad place. So so having that, having to make those ai of choices, and I signed myself into Walter Reed to get help because of the depression.
Speaker: 1
37:34
And and, so I I think it’s an important conversation, and I knew I I thought at that time it could be politically, it could be difficult, but I thought it was important. And and now if that cost me something politically, I’m okay. Sai that’s why I’m continuing. So how I’ve the impact I’ve had, I never fully expected that that voice would would break through.
Speaker: 1
37:57
And I’m I’m in contact with people constantly saying thank you for for talking about this. I chose to get help, or I I chose not to to, follow that path on self harm. And, so I’ve had active conversations with member of congress or fathers with with younger kids, and they’re like, hey. Can you please talk? And I and I do that.
Speaker: 1
38:18
I’m happy to talk to anybody. And and so that’s a way I’ve had an impact through through all of that and also my voice through, after what happened on 10 7th, you know, October 7th. And I’ve decided I was gonna be a very consistent voice, for for Israel through that. So that’s why kind of like the platform, but in terms of if anyone’s being honest, whether it was, senator Vance or any kinds of freshman, senators, it’s very limited because, otherwise, there’s people that have been there for 25, 30 years.
Speaker: 1
38:49
They’re the ones that are gonna be the chairman. And if you’re a minority party, you have incredibly limited kinds of ability to to to move an agenda.
Speaker: 0
39:00
So the the depression thing, I think it’s very important that you talked about that. I think, transparency is something that people really appreciate. Sai many people suffer from depression. It’s such a normal part of being a human being. And for a guy like you who’s a senator who’s already gone through being attacked, already gone through all of these horrible things that they said about you while you’re recovering from a stroke, it takes a lot of courage to to come out and discuss that.
Speaker: 0
39:30
I think it’s really important. I’m I’m really glad you did it.
Speaker: 1
39:33
Well, I don’t, well, thank you. But I don’t think you’re really encouraged. It’s like I only had a choice.
Speaker: 0
39:38
But it is courage because you you know you’re gonna be publicly attacked, and it’s a vulnerable point. But I think it’s not because I think so many people suffer from it. I think there’s courage in coming out and and talking about it openly and realizing that people are gonna use it as an attack vector and saying, you know what?
Speaker: 0
39:56
This is important to talk about. This is important to acknowledge and to to show people that you can recover from something like that.
Speaker: 1
40:05
Well, originally, I was just gonna talk about depression. And, it’s there’s a paradox. You know, you might be a place in your life that that you’ve actually ai won, but, the depression lies to you, and it convinces you that you’ve lost. And my depression got far more worse after I won, and and then it it was a it was a downward spiral.
Speaker: 1
40:26
And then if you don’t if you don’t check your depression, then you go down a dangerous slope about self harm. And I started to have I got to to to occupy that kind of a dark place, and, and that’s when I realized that I have a choice. It’s like if I don’t address this, then, I I had I had an emergency break. You know, I it’s like I I have to stop. I have to stop.
Speaker: 1
40:53
I have to and that was my kids. I’m like, I Ai I’m like, I cannot be I can’t be the example. And when you’re gonna be get older in life and you’re gonna have those kinds of challenge, well, hey, dad decided to to leave. Oh, that must be the right thing. And I’m like, I will I cannot allow myself to be, the example for that.
Speaker: 1
41:12
So I I stayed in the game, and and I was able to get help, and and I got much better. So, like, for me, it’s ai I originally didn’t wanna talk about self harm because that’s definitely that’s definitely not a great political winner.
Speaker: 0
41:25
Right.
Speaker: 1
41:25
But I I was like, I have to be answered. Excuse me. I have to be honored about that and and honest and and people that really resonated with people. I was, I think, the first person I was the first politician, especially at at that level, talking about self harm. And, you know, if people are that are suffering, people that I mean, you have a huge a huge, audience.
Speaker: 1
41:47
I’m willing to bet plenty of them are suffering from that or looking through those kinds
Speaker: 0
41:51
of issues. No doubt.
Speaker: 1
41:52
Yeah. And, Ai, you know, I promise people whatever your path whatever your path is for recovery, and I’m not an expert, but if you promise yourself to stay in that game, stay in that game, that you are ready you know, you’re almost guaranteed to get better because I promise you it will get better.
Speaker: 1
42:11
And I was at the point where I was really, you know, in a very dark place, and, I stayed in that game. And I am staying in front of in front of you right now and having this conversation. And, so that’s what I try to tell everybody whether they’re listening today or in other times when I’ve had that.
Speaker: 1
42:28
It’s it’s an honest conversation, but it is a red and blue conversation, and it’s a rural and urban or suburban conversation. It’s men or women or even younger kids. I’ve had conversations with teenagers, you know, with their parents, and they’ve even tried to take their lives.
Speaker: 1
42:45
And I can’t think of anything much more tragic than especially a young person taking their lives over some of the things that that and and, I never thought that that voice would would penetrate, but it did. And that’s why I’m willing to have that conversation.
Speaker: 0
43:01
Well, it’s apparently, it’s very common for people that undergo major surgery to, have depression afterwards. And there’s a the the bunch of physiological reasons for that, they believe. My friend, doctor Mark Gordon, who’s done a lot of work on traumatic brain injuries and, depression amongst athletes and soldiers, He did a lot of research on that and one of one of the things that they found is that people that undergo, like a long period of anesthesia and either heart surgery or any kind of major surgery, there’s a a disruption of your endocrine system afterwards that leads people to be just weary and broken down.
Speaker: 0
43:44
And I could imagine that along with the Sana race and all the other chaos and all the stresses involved with that, it plays a significant factor.
Speaker: 1
43:53
Well, I’m sure it must have been a a factor. I I discovered that I had I had 2 friends. They’re roughly my age and they had young kids and, they took they took their lives And they were both in the in the media, and both one was worked for an incredibly elite organization, and another one had a really strong position.
Speaker: 1
44:14
1 had a a heart attack, and the other one had a stroke years earlier, and I found out. And, Ai wish I could have talked to them, and I did talk to to to them. But, it doesn’t mean they were weak or that they gave up. It it’s just I got lucky, and I I found my emergency bryden.
Speaker: 1
44:34
And and and if you have any kinds of study on people and and self harm, there was an individual. He jumped off the Bryden Gate, and he survived. And immediately after he says, as he crossed over the rail, and he I wanna live. I wanna live. What have I done? It’s like I’ve made a terrible mistake.
Speaker: 1
44:52
And you hit you hit the water going 75 miles an hour, and it’s it’s very against chance of surviving, but he did. And now he became obsessed with this idea, and he he looked out for everyone that ai. And about 45 people out of 1800 people that have jumped over, they ai, and it was unanimously people immediately, like, oh my god. I wanna live. I wanna live.
Speaker: 1
45:16
I wanna live. And not one single person thought, well, I wish I was more successful. So, like, that’s I I try to put that forward, and I can’t imagine how difficult because, they had children the same age ai in trying to explain to a 10 year old, son, like, why did daddy leave?
Speaker: 1
45:37
And those are dark conversations. And, so, it it’s not about weakness. It it’s about trying to get away from that. People that are suffering from depression, if to if anyone’s been there, it’s like your your mind is on fire, and you just wanna get away from that. Now just please, I need relief from that kind of a thing.
Speaker: 1
46:02
And every now and then you have, like, kind of like the eye of the hurricane or you finally thought maybe things could get better, but it it it roars back in, and it’s like you get to back to that very dark place. And and I just, you know, I just tell everybody, I’m beg I’m begging you. Stay in that game.
Speaker: 1
46:18
I promise you it can get bryden, and the the depression is lying to you. It is absolutely lying to you and, is but don’t make the kind of choice that you can’t come back from.
Speaker: 0
46:30
I have a friend who, jumped off the bryden, died that way. You know? It’s it’s a terrible just a it’s a terrible thing to find out, and you you always feel like you could have talked to them. You could have helped. You always feel like, you know, I didn’t know Ai didn’t know he was suffering.
Speaker: 0
46:48
And then I found out that he died a few days later, and it was just ai it just leaves you feeling so lost. It’s such a terrible way to go to that bridge. God. How many people like, would you say how many people have jumped off that bridge, the Bryden Gate?
Speaker: 1
47:05
I I think that they they reference are about over 1800 people, and a a small, small, tiny survived. And and really being faced that idea that you’re not gonna come back, it’s it’s ai spontaneously curative. Like, oh my god. I wanna live. I wanna live. I wanna live. Like, it’s it’s it was unanimous about, and and that’s such an important kinds of research that that that he did.
Speaker: 1
47:29
And it it’s like and and, again, like, that’s my message. It has to be very simple. Stay in that game. It’s like you you can’t do this. You can’t do this.
Speaker: 0
47:40
And you need support.
Speaker: 1
47:41
Yeah. Yeah. You need support, whatever that is. And some people have different kinds of resources. I mean, I would want that for everybody, the resources that I had. That’s not fair. It’s not fair. And it it I got lucky. It’s not because I’m, like, I’m so much stronger or or better. It’s ai, no. No.
Speaker: 1
47:59
I just got lucky on vatsal. And I promise you, you’re not going to regret staying in the game, and you can get better. And that is probably I think, in meh, in my opinion, that’s about 75% of of getting back better.
Speaker: 0
48:18
What have you done to to help what has helped you?
Speaker: 1
48:23
My my family. That that’s that’s really what, like, every every person needs to have, like, that emerge I call that, like, an emergency break. It’s like, you know, you are you’re out of control. You know, you’re having that the darkest conversation you’ll have with yourself, and you have to have some something to stop that.
Speaker: 1
48:42
Otherwise, it’s you’re gonna go over the edge, and and everyone needs to have that of whatever that is, whether it’s your family, whether it’s your wife or your husband, or whether it is, or this that there has to be some it has to get better. It’s gonna get better. You know? That’s why I say stay on the game. And I’m not an expert. I’m not trained in that.
Speaker: 1
49:06
But when people reach out to me and say, well, I feel like this, and and I’m like, hey. It’s like, you know, help works. I promise you it will get better, and I can’t guarantee what your path will be. But what I can say is is that stay in that game, and you were gonna find your way on that path, and you’re never going to regret.
Speaker: 1
49:26
It’s like, oh, you know, big it’s it just it it the the finality the finality of that, and you’re some things you you can make a bad choice and, you know, well, that might set you back in life, but but that’s the that’s the one the one choice you can’t come back from. And you will leave people in your life that they’ll never understand or you wish you could reach back and you could let them know, and it stay away from that kind of blackness because, you’re I promise you, you would regret, and and if you can’t come back.
Speaker: 0
50:06
So what what has helped you? Counseling, meh? Like, what what did what are the things that got you back on track other than just your family? I,
Speaker: 1
50:18
the election, and everything, I was convinced that I’ve lost everything. I had you know, it was difficult to to fully speak. And my my kids, they got pulled into the social media kinds of, invective. And, it’s like I’ve I’ve destroyed my my health. I’ve I’ve and now Ai, against, you know, odds, I I won. And now am I gonna be able to do this job?
Speaker: 1
50:52
And and, you know, would I have been better off, if if I didn’t survive? And, I got to that that kind of a a a dark place, but, and then I just had this, like, that spontaneous where it’s like, ai kids. It’s like, no. I love you. Like, oh my gosh. It’s like like when they were visiting, I didn’t want them to visit me at Walter Reed.
Speaker: 1
51:17
Ai I was like, why would they wanna be around this? Right. But they they did, and it it was like this kind of spontaneous kinds of love. And and it it it just was like a shot, and it’s just like, I can come back. I can come back.
Speaker: 1
51:32
I I thought it’s like, well, why would they want this mess back? And and and then, you know, just working through a lot of those things and and other kinds of techniques and and things. It was like but that was probably the single most transformative event where it’s like I realized that I can come back to my life.
Speaker: 1
51:51
Otherwise, it’s like Sai thought I’ve lost everything. Would I be able to even do my job? And it’s like, do I even have a career? I mean, I’m talking about, like, that was a significant national, story when after I signed myself in, and that pulled my kids in through that. I mean, this idea.
Speaker: 1
52:10
And after we announced that we’re signing in and there were news trucks outside their house, and and they had the they had the trauma of thinking that dad could have lost after the stroke. And now he is it’s just it’s they it’s put them through so meh, and that’s why I was convinced that they probably don’t want me around.
Speaker: 1
52:31
And then I made the I made the stupid mistake of I Sai I went on social media and things. I’m like and just Ai read some of that shit. I mean, it’s just it’s just oh my god. Millions and millions of views in videos, and it’s just ai, you know, going after my family and then saying, you know, you know, hey. He’s a vegetable.
Speaker: 1
52:55
He’s, you know, he’s a retard and, you know, sling, sling blade and all kinds of things. And it wasn’t it wasn’t the individual kinds of insults. It was the volume and just how widespread it it it was. And I’m like, who jumps online to go after a a a stranger that’s never really done anything to you personally?
Speaker: 0
53:16
Well, I think it’s not just individuals. I think it’s targeted. I think there’s a a lot of that stuff, especially when there’s something that is significant as a senate speak, and I think there’s
Speaker: 1
53:27
Yeah. Well, I mean, it it’s like ai I have a 100 if I have a $100,000,000 to convince you that you’re a terrible person sana you’re the worst thing ever, and that that that inspires a lot of people, and they hey. That’s the mission. It’s like he clearly he must be those things, and, you know, we’re now there there is no there’s no tap out. There is no tap out.
Speaker: 1
53:47
It’s like even after we won, after I won, in some sense, it actually accelerated.
Speaker: 0
53:52
Right. It’s not the the war is not over. It’s just begun.
Speaker: 1
53:55
No. Oh, no. No. And the the second the second you step into that kind of arena on the federal level for for, like, a a senate, speak, if if it’s ai a purple state like Pennsylvania, you know, I promise you there will be tens and tens of 1,000,000 of dollars, and their mission is to turn you into the worst thing in the world.
Speaker: 1
54:16
And whoever survives, that’s the one that’s gonna be in that speak, and I still will never understand why someone, you know, independently wealthy kinds of people will spend, you know, incredible amounts of money. And and I tried people. I’m like, there’s no glamour here. Wow. Ai, I like, I’m in on a 500 square foot apartment, and I’m like, here with my phone.
Speaker: 1
54:36
I’m like, hey, Grubhub. What’s it tonight? And then it’s like I’m, like, I watch, you know, TV on Netflix and things, and I I ask I ask, my colleagues. I’m, like, hey, is there ai of secret ai, like, you know, like, you know, crazy parties or, you know, sitting around with cigars and, you know you know, this and they’re like, well, no.
Speaker: 1
54:57
Ai I kinda have the same version of of that.
Speaker: 0
54:59
That’s the perception, though. Right? The perception is yeah.
Speaker: 1
55:02
Yeah. The perception is we
Speaker: 0
55:03
ai into a club. Yeah. The the Ai control the world.
Speaker: 1
55:07
Yeah. That we all have witty kinds of dialogue on West Wing. You know, ai talking like how you know, kinds of turn, you know, and really, it’s it’s just like and and I ai that as a lot of it’s just bad it’s just bad performance art. You know? Yeah. Thanks. That’s usually what it it is. It’s just bad performance art.
Speaker: 1
55:26
And some people, like, if you’re if you’re in a safe in a safe state or a safe seat, you and especially if you have the resources and they’re incredibly wealthy people, they buy a a house, and they move their life there. So you’re able to ai of things. But, like, I don’t have those resources, and I’m in a very, very the ultimate purple.
Speaker: 1
55:48
And so I spend more than 50% of my time away, and I miss my kids. It’s it’s it’s rough, for for that. I mean, I signed up for that, but I I promise you there’s no glamour, in that. Well, there’s certainly no glamour if you’re honest, but I think there’s a lot
Speaker: 0
56:09
of people that look to, certain members of the government that have jobs that pay a 150, $170,000 a year, but somehow or another acquire 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars over the course of their career usually through some kind of insider trading?
Speaker: 1
56:27
Well, yeah, of course. I mean, I I don’t own any of those stocks or anything. And definitely, like, if if you have any kinds of impact or you know that there’s something civil is coming. Yeah. Ai mean, yeah. It’s just like it’s like you you need How is that legal? It’s well, no.
Speaker: 1
56:43
We we should have the kind of legislation to make sure that you’re not like, if you are on Congress, you shouldn’t have any kinds of stocks because you are going to be passing kinds of laws, etcetera, etcetera, that, you you know, you have to separate that. There there really shouldn’t be a part of that ai of a thing. And, I I mean, my Ai all out. I’m open.
Speaker: 1
57:03
All of us, we have to have our our our wealth and ours, you know, all that there. And I and if I’m not the the the the the the poorest, I have probably the the bottom ai. And, you know, other people there are worth 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars, so, you know, we can’t have that situation where, you know, if you’re gonna be involved on those kinds of legislation, that you can’t be enriched by those kinds of and and there has to be some kind of influence.
Speaker: 0
57:30
That seems simple. That seems ai logical. Like, most people would agree to that.
Speaker: 1
57:36
Yeah. There’s a lot of there’s a lot of inertia. It’s the same thing. I I think if any one of us were being honest, money is destroying our our democracy. And and that that’s the some people that might sound trite or it’s a cliche, but it’s it’s a 100%, though. I think most people
Speaker: 0
57:52
who are objective would agree with you.
Speaker: 1
57:53
It it it it I promise you, it is it is absolute. It is a scourge of American democracy, and money is king. And what’s that money for? That money is for tearing you apart, and that creates more and more and more kinds of incivility and cruelty. And then now, when I went through when I was in graduate school for that stuff, I mean, there was no social media, and there wasn’t, you know, there wasn’t podcasts.
Speaker: 1
58:20
There wasn’t all kinds of things, so that made it more difficult. But but now there’s all of those things, and and social media is an accelerant, and count you know, just unlimited money. And that has what you know, like, I’m sure you you know, you’re you’re an athlete, and, you know, if you’ve heard that, NFL players, it’s like, wait.
Speaker: 1
58:40
Would you want your son to play? And sometimes sai, well, no. I wouldn’t want that for my son. And and it’s like I’m relieved that, my oldest is like he has no interest in being in politics in that. Sai, it’s I I can’t imagine it’s gonna get better until, you know, we address this idea that unlimited money is unlimited attack, and it’s an an unlimited cruelty and hyperbole and just all kinds of poisoning the the will that, you know, half of us are gonna hate your guts and the other half, hey, that’s my team.
Speaker: 0
59:19
Yeah. So Well, I I strongly feel that the Internet should remain the way it is in terms of people being able to post on social media anonymously if they so choose. But the problem with that is it can be captured by money and it can be captured by these enormous groups that have bought farms, whether it’s, state actors, whether it’s other countries, other nations that are doing that to try to attack our our system and to try to promote certain narratives or whether it’s our own country itself doing it, because I think we do it too.
Speaker: 0
59:56
And I think that PACs do it and it’s just
Speaker: 1
01:00:00
People hook themselves up. It’s ai you you self select your cocoon.
Speaker: 0
01:00:04
Yes.
Speaker: 1
01:00:05
You know? And, like, I’m a big fan of Apple News, and it’s, like, $13 a month, and and but I read everything across the speak, the you know, very, very left and very, very right in between, and and I think it’s really I think that’s your responsibility, especially if you’re an elected leader, to to be challenged, to challenge yourself on the ideas.
Speaker: 1
01:00:27
And it’s like, clearly, one side doesn’t have all the answers, and the other side can’t be a 100% wrong. And and it’s just ai being challenging and living or taking in other kinds of perspectives. I think that’s a responsibility because ai, if you only just cocoon yourself into and it’s just it turns into 1 gigantic circle jerk, and and that’s why it just turns people to just kinda dig in.
Speaker: 1
01:00:53
And it’s ai, hey, you know, the the problem is them, and we have to Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:00:57
Well, it’s a problem with human beings in general. So we tend to be very tribal, and we tend to commit to an ideology whether You’re comfortable. Yes. It’s comfortable. Sure. Especially when you’re in an echo chamber. Everyone’s agreeing with you. You get social credit from saying the things that these people all agree with, and you you feed off that.
Speaker: 0
01:01:15
But it’s when it’s being captured by it’s not just these people exchanging ai, It’s also a bunch of people that are manipulating people’s ideas. You know, I don’t know if you’ve ever paid attention to like, Rene Meh Restes’ work with the, Internet Research Agency. What what what they what they uncovered, what what they were doing was using this was, like, during the 2016 election, using social media and it was a lot of Russian troll farms and troll farms in other countries.
Speaker: 1
01:01:45
It’s it’s it’s possible, but but but but to be honest, I I that that election wasn’t turned on, I think, Russian interference. No. I’m not I I what what happened in 2016 was Trump, you know, he plugged into, like, kinds of of an energy or, you know, like, it was just, like, ai looking, to to make that kind of a of a connection there.
Speaker: 0
01:02:08
Well, he’s a legitimate outsider. This is the appeal. The appeal is that people think that this system is completely rigged, and it’s captured by money and special interests and enormous corporations. And then here’s a guy who’s outside of this system completely, and the evidence of that is how the system turned against him and how you got to see people on television every night talking about Russiagate, talking about how he’s a a puppet of Putin, talking about the Steele dossier, talking about all these different things that turned out to not be bryden.
Speaker: 0
01:02:41
And it it furthers
Speaker: 1
01:02:42
I never bought into Ai never bought into some of that kind of a stuff because if anyone that speak any time on the ground in one of those states, it’s ai it’s very clear that wasn’t because of some some small kinds of, tweets and things ai whatever. It’s it’s it’s it’s ai. And and also, remember, like, he was, you know, he you know, the Republican party was like, hey.
Speaker: 1
01:03:08
This is a joke, and I remember Jeb Jeb Bush. You know? And he he had, like, a 100 or $22,000,000, and and he just went by. He ticked him off, and and even then, people thought he was gonna win, but, he did. But but meh, though, overall, though, that was 75,000 votes.
Speaker: 1
01:03:28
That’s a mathematical, like, you know, I mean, think of that. A 100 a 160,000,000 votes, 75,000 spread across 3 large states, including my own. That transformed American politics and then the world as well, and it just came down to 75,000 voters in those 3 states. And that’s that’s ai where that’s where we’re at.
Speaker: 0
01:03:51
Yeah. It’s it’s an extraordinary time in that regard. Right? I meh,
Speaker: 1
01:03:56
it’s fair. Well, I mean, if Uncharted territory. Well, I I I reference a a movie if you like a Bullworth.
Speaker: 0
01:04:02
Mhmm. I remember that movie.
Speaker: 1
01:04:03
But Bullworth and, you know, it was Warren Beatty, and he was a a sana, and he ai of had, like, a breakdown. And he started saying provocative things. He used to get up in front of his audience and and kind of, like, like the gaffe of of accidentally speak you know, telling the truth.
Speaker: 0
01:04:19
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:04:19
And, it was kind of like it was an absurd. I mean, when I was in grad school, that was ai put up as like, well, heck. I mean, people enjoyed that, and now that became a term in politics saying, oh, we, in fact, even, President Obama was like, hey, we all sana secretly go full Bullworth, full Bullworth.
Speaker: 1
01:04:38
Mhmm. And but but that’s what really he channeled in where he would say, you know, it’s kind of like he projects kind of like, well, I don’t give a fuck, and just say all those kinds of a thing. And and people have responded to those kinds of things. And and there you know, a lot of people, they that that’s the that’s the bug, but you have to understand that that for enough people, that’s the feature. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:05:01
And and that’s ai what they sana. And and whatever that is, it it describes a brand that, you know, it’s it’s not I don’t admire that, but you still have to kind of arya at at at the level to sai crazy kinds of things that that it it you I’m meh, well, I guess maybe we’re both old enough to remember when, George in the George Bush, Al Gore, he is ai, oh, god.
Speaker: 1
01:05:30
This guy. And that moved the polls. People were like, he rolled his eyes at Bush, you know, like things and, like, you know, ai, it used to be much more stayed. And now think of what’s been said now Right. Ai all of this stuff.
Speaker: 1
01:05:42
And and, I don’t think, people aren’t paying attention to some of the, whatever the latest outrage is.
Speaker: 0
01:05:49
Yeah. It’s, I think one of the your appeals is that you speak like a normal human being. You speak like a person who actually cares about these issues, and you seemingly speak from the heart. You don’t seem polished, which is a good thing. And I think people
Speaker: 1
01:06:09
I ai I wish I was more handsome.
Speaker: 0
01:06:11
You know? Ai don’t think
Speaker: 1
01:06:12
that’s No. I I don’t know.
Speaker: 0
01:06:13
I don’t think that’s good.
Speaker: 1
01:06:14
Oh, no. No. I I no. I it’s ai I’m honest. Yeah. I’m honest. I I think I’m in I’m in touch with, you know, what I’m limited. I wasn’t blessed with model looks and, but
Speaker: 0
01:06:24
not looks. It’s the polish of speaking ai a congressman, like a senator, like a presidential candidate.
Speaker: 1
01:06:32
Yeah. I Ai
Speaker: 0
01:06:33
But it’s this kind of bullshit way of communicating that’s inauthentic that even though it’s effective, even though it’s polished and smooth, people never get a sense of who that person is as a human being. Trump is not polished. He’s not polished in that sense, but you get a sense of who he is as a human being that doesn’t seem to be a veil.
Speaker: 0
01:06:53
There’s doesn’t seem to be this this disconnect between a human being and the thoughts. You might not agree with him. You might think he’s crass or rude, but at least you know that he’s the guy that’s talking. These are his thoughts, and you people trust that way more than they trust someone who’s, you know, polished but full of shit.
Speaker: 1
01:07:16
Yeah. No. It it’s it’s that Scarface. It’s ai, you know, word in balls. Yeah. You know, I’m not gonna I’m you know, and that’s you’re losing politically if you’re telling people to not believe what their eyes are seeing.
Speaker: 0
01:07:27
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:07:28
You know? Ai, these these kinds of issues and and it’s like Ai not gonna lie ai I’m not going to toe a line if I don’t if I don’t believe if I don’t believe in that that, so, but in terms of of the the the conversation, Ai I I think it’s, like, it’s it’s all I’ve got. And, and it’s not because I don’t care. It’s actually Ai very committed, and I really do care.
Speaker: 1
01:07:51
But but I think people are, you know, ai, I I think authenticity, that’s the that’s the last that’s really that’s one of the last, meaningful currency in this shitty business.
Speaker: 0
01:08:02
So I was having a conversation this morning with a friend of mine, and we were talking about voter ID. And he was shocked that you don’t need voter ID in, I believe, it’s 15 states. 15 states require no ID. 20 I think it’s 24 or 25 states require ID, but only, I think, 11 of them require you to have photo ID.
Speaker: 0
01:08:32
This is a weird one in this election that I’ve tried to look at as objectively as possible, and I can’t see any reason why you would not need ID to vote unless you wanted people to vote that aren’t qualified to vote.
Speaker: 1
01:08:50
Yeah. Well, I mean, like, ai honestly, I would I would like to remind everybody, and it’s it’s not like a talking point. It’s actually, it’s in a fact that voter fraud is incredibly, incredibly rare. It’s really hard to to to, to to get away with that successfully. And in 2020 At scale, you mean? Yeah. It’s not scalable. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:09:11
It’s like I mean, it’s like and, usually, it’s it’s ai of local kinds of communities and people, they either know that person or it’s it’s not. It it it’s never gonna be organized in a point where you can pack you can pack, a a box or you can’t determine that that kind of a thing.
Speaker: 1
01:09:30
It’s it’s just that, you know, after election, election, election, it it’s just never been, you know, in 2020 out of, over 1,000,000 of votes in 2020 in Pennsylvania, there were 5 or 6, you know, ones. And what happened is that that they they turned out to be, the Republicans, and they used their deceased, their their dead moms, you know, to to vote for Trump through that.
Speaker: 1
01:09:53
And and that that was that was documented, and they were all they were all they they were, caught. They were charged. They were convicted. And all those votes, that would have been 6 votes out of all of it. So it
Speaker: 0
01:10:06
Do you think that that’s
Speaker: 1
01:10:07
the only voter fraud that exists? Well, people also we need to remind that, you know, the the the voter database, their cross checks against deaths and, you know, who’s moved or what’s their status are. Like, oh, like Uh-huh. You know, all that’s cross checked back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.
Speaker: 1
01:10:23
So it’s it’s it’s a living kinds of thing where it’s con continually updated and all of those kinds of things, and it it self checks. And remember also, in 2020, you know, Trump there was ai, yeah, wait. There’s there’s cheating. There’s all these things are happening. And remember, there’s probably, 57, 58 red counties.
Speaker: 1
01:10:42
And all of those commissioners that are in charge of that, they were like, hey. No. There was none. There was none. And even in Georgia even in Georgia, governor Kemp governor Kemp, was like, hey. You know, Georgia, you know, it was very close, but it was it was honest.
Speaker: 1
01:10:58
There was no there was no kinds of fraud in that. And that’s a that’s a Republican.
Speaker: 0
01:11:02
But other than making things a little bit easier to cheat, what would be the logic behind not having voter ID? Like, what I I’ve tried to look at this as objectively as possible. Ai can’t find any reason why you would not require someone to be able to prove that they’re the person they say they are when they’re putting in their saloni.
Speaker: 1
01:11:25
It’s it’s not a hill that I’m saying Sai we have to die on that too. Again, but but
Speaker: 0
01:11:30
It’s a vulnerability clearly. Right?
Speaker: 1
01:11:32
Well well, it it’s also there may some people may not believe that, in in a lot of these kinds of communities, you know, ones that I that I live in, for some people, they they’re not gonna they don’t they don’t have an ID necessarily, or they’ve lost it or whatever. And, you know, let’s But
Speaker: 0
01:11:48
you need one to get a driver’s license. You need one to get a car servicer.
Speaker: 1
01:11:52
Have it. They don’t
Speaker: 0
01:11:52
have one.
Speaker: 1
01:11:53
Yeah. They would have to get an ID, or it it costs x amount of dollars, or those kinds of of a thing. It’s it’s a barrier, and it usually tends to skew more towards people that are, you know, coming from those kinds of communities. And and the Republicans understand that they’re usually gonna they’re gonna skew towards Democratic voters through that.
Speaker: 1
01:12:13
And, so that that’s kind of the argument, on vatsal, and there’s never been any evidence that there is widespread kinds of of voter fraud, and that’s But
Speaker: 0
01:12:25
we really didn’t have widespread mail in ballots to the extent that it was done in 2020. We really didn’t have that before.
Speaker: 1
01:12:33
All of those were. All of those were. And, you know, those 5 or 6, you know, dead moms that were voting, those were all those were all, well, actually, 1. 1 guy 1 guy went in. He voted, you know, and then he went up, to his car, and he put on sunglasses and a bob cap. And he walked in. He’s like, hi. Hello.
Speaker: 1
01:12:50
I’m here to vote. And the ai like, you were just here. What are you doing? And then they called the police. And and then it’s like, yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:12:57
He was trying to double vote.
Speaker: 0
01:12:58
And Did you, see the story about the Ai, national who was arrested because, he voted, and then, he tried to get his ballot back, and that’s how they they caught him? It’s possible. Yeah. Yeah. This is the thing that just happened. And, unfortunately, once he’s voted, even though he was not eligible to vote, his vote is going to count.
Speaker: 0
01:13:19
Texas removed some I mean, there’s lawsuits about it, but Texas removed somewhere in the neighborhood of a 1000000 people that, were ineligible to vote that could have been voting.
Speaker: 1
01:13:30
Well, everybody knows who’s voting and who’s not voting on that. And then that’s why What do
Speaker: 0
01:13:35
you mean by that? What do you mean by everybody knows?
Speaker: 1
01:13:37
Well and and and remember also too, Dominion. You know, people, on on on the Trump side, they all said that that Dominion’s was corrupt, and and then they and that cost Fox, $800,000,000. They had to pay $800,000,000 about defamation for saying that there was it was rigged or if it’s not, and there was no evidence, and they had to just acknowledge that that this was the honest thing.
Speaker: 1
01:14:01
So
Speaker: 0
01:14:01
But Dominion is, it’s a computer program. Right? It’s a it’s a computer. Like, that’s what you do. You do electronic voting.
Speaker: 1
01:14:08
Yeah. That that was that was a system that that, you know, mostly and often, it was red states that were using those.
Speaker: 0
01:14:14
Do you meh well, that that is true because do you remember the documentary Hacking Democracy? Did you ever see that?
Speaker: 1
01:14:20
Again, there’s always gonna be people that are gonna try to to have an influence on that. Right.
Speaker: 0
01:14:24
But did you see that documentary? It was about the the Republicans doing it. I I I haven’t seen that documentary. It’s ai documentary during the Bush administration and one that they they showed that the Diebold machines, when Diebold was a significant contributor, I believe, to the Republican Party.
Speaker: 0
01:14:40
They showed in the documentary that you could use a third party input to change the results, and they they actually proved it in the documentary. And people arya pointing to this is, oh ai god, the Republicans are cheating, and the Republicans have used this to try to rig the election for George Bush.
Speaker: 0
01:14:58
It was an HBO documentary.
Speaker: 1
01:15:00
I’m not accusing. I I’ve never accused the the Republicans, like, well, for in 2016.
Speaker: 0
01:15:07
No. I’m not I’m not saying you did. What I’m trying to say is that this is not a a a thing that’s only been leveled against the the the Democrats using it. This is not, like, an accusation that only applies to Democrats in the past. A similar accusation was applied to Republicans.
Speaker: 1
01:15:25
Yeah. Well, I mean, I I I think we can all agree that we need to have a just like our border, we need a secure border, and we need an absolutely secure Right. Vote voting voting system as well too. I mean, that that should never be considered, controversial ai that. And in in 2016, a lot of Democrats were were outraged that that that we lost.
Speaker: 1
01:15:46
But but, I never claimed that there was you know, the the Republicans cheated or do all those kinds of things. And it’s ai, you know, the problem the problem for accusing that there was voter fraud is is that if you don’t like the the outcome. Right. You know? So and I have never witnessed a rep an election if if they’ve won that they claimed, well, there might be, you know, we we might We might have cheated.
Speaker: 1
01:16:11
Ai. No. We’re not cheating. So that Right. Of course. I think that’s that’s kind of that that’s that’s I think that’s kind of the underlying, truth about that.
Speaker: 1
01:16:20
And and, of course, you know, I I think I was the first Democrat saying, hey. We need a secure border. We you know, it’s a significant issue. And if I thought there was any kinds of issues, and I’ve been very vigilant throughout, I’ve been actively involved in those kinds of things, and I’ve never witnessed those kinds of a thing.
Speaker: 0
01:16:37
What do you mean by issues? Like, what kind of issues you’re talking about? You’re talking about people letting people in in order to get votes?
Speaker: 1
01:16:47
Well, Ai I I it’s not there’s not that level ai I don’t think there’s that level ai of organization.
Speaker: 0
01:16:52
But there is an organization that’s moving these people to swing states. There’s a significant number of these people that are illegal immigrants that have made their way to swing states, and then there’s been calls for amnesty. There’s been calls for allowing these people to have a pathway to citizenship and allow them to vote.
Speaker: 0
01:17:12
The fear that a lot of people have is that this is a coordinated effort to take these people that you’re allowing to come into the country, then you’re providing them with all sorts of services ai food stamps and housing and setting them up.
Speaker: 1
01:17:27
Well, you
Speaker: 0
01:17:27
And then providing a pathway to amnesty, and then you would have voters that would be significantly voting towards the Democrats because they’re the people that enabled them to come into the country in the first place, 1st place, and provided them with those services. This is a big fear that people have and that you’re rigging this system and that this will turn all these states into essentially locked blue like California is.
Speaker: 1
01:17:55
Well, I I you know, it’s well, immigration is always gonna be a a tough issue in our nation. You know, I I had, as a professor, in grad school, Saloni Simpson, Alan Simpson, and he, was he was a United States senator. He was Wyoming, and he was he was, he was actually a pro choice Republican. I mean, how rare that would be. Well, it doesn’t exist now.
Speaker: 1
01:18:19
And he said, you are never going to have any meaningful immigration kinds of legislation. He’s ai, because both side, that that’s useful for them, and it’s gonna be back and forth, back and forth. And he said that 25 years ago.
Speaker: 0
01:18:33
Useful meaning the debate having it always some political talk before.
Speaker: 1
01:18:39
Ai or the other. It’s it’s useful. And he he he said, I there were never going to be, and he said that in 1999. Mhmm. And I was I I voted for for the border deal, and that and that went down. And and that’s I mean, he said that 25 years ago, and that was absolutely true now that that that they had an opportunity to do a comprehensive border, bipartisan, and that went down because, Trump, he he declared that that that’s that’s a bad deal after it was negotiated with with the other side.
Speaker: 0
01:19:10
But what didn’t that deal also involve amnesty? And didn’t that deal also involve a significant number of illegal aliens being allowed into the country every year? I think was 2,000,000 people. So it was still the same sort of situation, and their fear is exactly what I talked about.
Speaker: 0
01:19:26
That these people will be moved to swing states and that that will be used to essentially rig those states and turn them blue forever.
Speaker: 1
01:19:36
Well, I I I’m not I’m not really sure if that’s that’s what what what what what’s what’s in play. I I think it’s really like, it’s important that we have to have an an honest conversation.
Speaker: 0
01:19:44
But doesn’t that seem logical, though? If you have a significant number of people that are being moved into swing states that have come across the border illegally and then you ai them with all these services, you provided them with food stamps, EBT, you provided them with housing, you could if you gave those people amnesty and allow those people to vote and it was very organized, You’re talking about 75,000 votes over a few counties that switched everything over to the Republicans.
Speaker: 0
01:20:11
You could see how you import 10,000,000 people over the course of 4 years illegally and then move a significant number of them to swing states and then provide them with all these services and then give them a path to citizenship, you could essentially rig those states.
Speaker: 1
01:20:28
Undeniably, immigration is changing our nation. I mean, I haven’t spent a lot of time in Texas, but it’s very clear that that immigration has has remade Texas. And I think it’s, generally, it’s it’s for for a good thing. And, like, my wife, my wife’s Brazilian, and she was, she was, her family was, meh.
Speaker: 1
01:20:45
And she was 7 years old when she was brought here. And and I and I’m the big pro pro immigration ai that there was, but it’s also has to be true that we need a secure bryden. And we have to work this out because we are pretending that you have millions and millions of people, you know, living in the shadow, and they are here.
Speaker: 1
01:21:07
And we have to work together and figure out a way to get forward because they’re here, and it seems incredibly a a difficult ai of logistics thing. And I think it’s it’s also un American to to to round everybody up and who in the vast majority of them are just living legal, lives and doing a lot of the jobs that other people here would never do.
Speaker: 1
01:21:28
I think we can agree on that.
Speaker: 0
01:21:29
Well, JD Vance actually talked about that the other day when he was here. He was explaining how there are CEOs of large corporations that want these people to come across because they need cheap labor. And the way to get cheap labor is have people that are illegals working for less than what would be our minimum wage.
Speaker: 1
01:21:50
Well, I I’m not aware. I mean, minimum wage, really, it’s it’s I think it’s it’s most incredibly difficult and and violent kind of jobs, like, you know, like and and that’s, like, that’s, you know, meh Jobs that a lot of people don’t want to. A lot of those those are kinda really rough.
Speaker: 0
01:22:04
Meat processing
Speaker: 1
01:22:05
Yeah. Construction. Very, you know, rough. Right.
Speaker: 0
01:22:08
And this is the thing that’s been said about Springfield, Ohio that these Haitians that have moved to Springfield, Ohio, these people are complaining about them, but the people that have employed these people have saying, listen, these people are taking jobs that other people that lived in this community don’t want. They work very hard, and they’re very happy that they have this pathway to be in America now.
Speaker: 0
01:22:25
I think most people that come here come here because they want a better life for their families. And America is essentially a country that was founded by immigration. I’m I’m a grandchild of immigrants. My I’m here because of immigration. Uh-uh.
Speaker: 1
01:22:38
This is We we all were immigrants.
Speaker: 0
01:22:40
Is a immigrant country, essentially.
Speaker: 1
01:22:42
Yeah. And and it’s ai it’s again, and and, like, the the the Haitians the Haitians, you know, that they’re referencing in Ohio and Springfield, I mean, they’re not eating dogs. They’re not eating pets and those kinds of things. Now it’s reasonable. I mean, I’ve said the same thing that we have to have a secure border, but it didn’t even apply to to that situation. That was all a legal situation.
Speaker: 1
01:23:01
That was enmity meh. Excuse me. And that’s because Haiti was was, it was, it was Terrible. Yeah. A terrible situation.
Speaker: 0
01:23:11
Terrible situation.
Speaker: 1
01:23:12
And and to me, they were doing those jobs. And and Republicans, you know, even the the the Republican governor was saying, like, these are good workers, and this is not the problem. They aren’t eating geese. And and it’s just ai you can be very pro pro border ai I am, or you can be very, you know, strict on immigration, but you don’t have to demonize or or try to turn a group of people in that they’re eating your dog.
Speaker: 0
01:23:38
Well, I said eat They’re eating ducks and eating look. I’m sure some people have done that. You know you know why I know that? Because some people do that in places that are just Americans. Ducks are edible, and some people wanna eat a duck. And it’s ai, like, you’re not gonna stop it, but that’s not the major problem that people face. So this is the pro side of it. Right?
Speaker: 0
01:23:57
The pro side of it is you give a pathway to people that are from very unfortunate circumstances, and I think we would both agree that if we were living in those countries and there was a pathway to citizenship in the United States, all you had to do is make it across the border, we would both do it.
Speaker: 0
01:24:12
It was better for our families. It was better for our future. If we’re living in a place that had no hope and no future, and all you had to do is make it to America and and you could work, we would all do it. I would do it. You would do it. I bet everybody listening to this would do it if they found themselves in that circumstance. That’s the best aspect of it.
Speaker: 0
01:24:30
The best aspect of it is good people that are ambitious, that want a better life, which is how this country was founded. The worst aspect of it is Venezuelan gangs are taking over apartment buildings in Aurora, Colorado and San Antonio, Texas. That’s the worst aspect of it is that they’re letting in gang meh. Venezuelans emptied out their prisons and, essentially, according to the president The Mario Boat Lift.
Speaker: 1
01:24:54
You know, it’s the whole Right.
Speaker: 0
01:24:56
What happened in Cuba. Yeah. The same ai of deal. Emptying out their prisons and instructing these people to make it to Meh. This is a significant problem with the open border.
Speaker: 1
01:25:06
Yeah. And that’s why we need a secure border. And there’s also and it that all of this is about a truth is that America is a beacon for to the world. Millions of people. The the the demand to become a citizen here or to participate in our amazing society, the demand outstrips the the space there, and we’re there we’re already the very pro immigration.
Speaker: 1
01:25:26
We we allow more kinds of a path more than any other nations in the world on that, and people are willing to ai, and they put themselves at risk just to kinda get here to be where it is about here. So America isn’t the problem. America is America is is one of the great hopes in the world, and that’s why so many people wanna come be a part of that.
Speaker: 1
01:25:45
And and that’s why it has to have an effective bryden, and it’s ai if you know, we had a real issue here, and we wanted to address that. And that’s why, you know, my my former professor, said that you’re never gonna have the kind of a deal because it is useful for both sides to weaponize that and to demonize one side or turn the other thing in there because it’s a serious important issue.
Speaker: 0
01:26:10
It’s a political talking point that’s they’re always gonna use. That’s what you’re saying.
Speaker: 1
01:26:13
Yeah. It’s it’s it’s useful. I mean, it’s it’s it’s weapon it’s ai. And that’s why you have to have an an honest conversation. Right. I think I’ve always you know, I I I Ai was reaching out saying that was referred to HR 1, and that that was, like, kind of, like, the dream kind of immigration law coming out of the house.
Speaker: 1
01:26:32
And I was like, hey, if that border deal goes down, then it’s like, hey, we should continue to have that conversation. Right. You know, we you know, it’s like their parts of their their parts
Speaker: 0
01:26:40
But the what’s contradictory is that, say, if you’re coming from Canada or Europe and you’re a highly skilled, college educated person who wants to live in America and become a United States citizen. The path to citizenship is incredibly difficult. It’s hard. You have to go up for review. You have to show that you’re doing something that Americans can’t do.
Speaker: 0
01:27:05
You have to be a person of significant talent or ability. There’s something about you that we want you in here. Yet, if you just make it across the border and walk in, people wanna give you amnesty, and they wanna allow you a path to citizenship quickly. Without any of those hoops, you don’t have to take tests. You don’t have to go up for review.
Speaker: 0
01:27:24
Not only that, but once you get here, once you apply for amnesty, there’s a significant wait period where you’re allowed to maintain your residence in this country. It’s between 7 and sometimes longer years.
Speaker: 1
01:27:37
Yeah. Well, we we have to figure out what’s what’s the way Well,
Speaker: 0
01:27:39
that’s kind of crazy, though, isn’t it?
Speaker: 1
01:27:41
But the the fact is we have we have an issue. We have millions of people here, and, you know, the vast majority of them are are living legal kinds of lives. And, of course would
Speaker: 0
01:27:51
you do if you were the president? Let let’s imagine president Fetterman has to deal with this issue. You wanna address the American people. What do you think should be done?
Speaker: 1
01:28:00
Again, having that I would have the same conversation to to the congress and to the American people ai I’m having right now as well too. Like, I you know, I think it’s 2 things can be true at the same time. You can be very pro immigration. I wouldn’t have the the beautiful family that I have if it wasn’t for, you know, challenges and and issues with immigration.
Speaker: 1
01:28:17
But then we have to figure out a way that we can marry a a sai successful way that we can we can combine. You know, I think I I personally, I do think immigration is is really one of our our secret weapons. I think that’s what makes America Yes. So so strong.
Speaker: 0
01:28:32
I agree with you.
Speaker: 1
01:28:32
Yeah. Yeah. I do. That’s made
Speaker: 0
01:28:34
it Ambitious people want a better life. I mean, that’s literally how we’re founded, and that’s what be
Speaker: 1
01:28:38
I mean, do you see people trying to to to to live illegally in India or Russia? You don’t see people trying to ai into Right. The nations like that. I mean, that’s It’s a good point. Ai mean, it’s it’s in some sense, it’s it’s in a weird way, it’s ai kind of a kind of a, it’s a significant but a good problem to have because we have we’re such an amazing nation Yes.
Speaker: 1
01:28:55
Agree. Yeah. But if I’m if I’m president Fetterman, I’m like, hey, we gotta figure this out. We gotta figure this out. I’m not gonna demonize I’m not gonna demonize the Republicans and say that you’re a xenophobic ai I mean, the second you start calling somebody, oh, you’re a xenophobic, you’re it’s like, well, then the conversation is gonna shut down.
Speaker: 1
01:29:12
Right. Bryden. And Ai saying, I’ve Ai it’s like for a serious conversation requires serious people. And the second the second and that’s when you talk about unlimited money, and it’s ai, suddenly, you’re like I mean, I had I had gigantic billboards saying Fetterman equals, you know, open borders and Fetterman you know, like, it’s just like, you know, I get turned into, you know, like
Speaker: 0
01:29:36
A Marxist.
Speaker: 1
01:29:37
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Just that that’s all these kinds of things, and it’s just ai, and, of course, that was never true. And then when I had the opportunity because, you know, as I’m a senator and we have that kinds of legislation in front of me, I’m like, yes. We need to have a serious ones. And now people are ai, we’re shocked. They’re like, oh, wait a minute.
Speaker: 1
01:29:53
I thought they told us that he was all, like, ai, you know, opening up and whatever, and it’s just not true.
Speaker: 0
01:29:58
Well, that’s the problem with people building a fake narrative around your actual opinions. And I think people have been shocked by you, and we’ve actually talked about on the podcast over the last couple of years. You say very reasonable things, very reasonable, honest things.
Speaker: 1
01:30:11
Yeah. Yeah. That that that that’s Yes. You know, there’s So they that’s the thing. And it’s like
Speaker: 0
01:30:15
But it’s rare for politicians.
Speaker: 1
01:30:16
I I I’m I’m eager to talk to to anyone, and it’s like Sai like I I mean, I was thrilled to be here, and I’ve I’ve been a longtime fan of yours. And Thank you. And it’s like these are the kinds of, you know, like, we parts of ai we become too fragile. You know, like, oh, they’re not allowed to talk about those things. They’re not allowed to have these kinds of conversation.
Speaker: 1
01:30:36
I I never understood why that, that that’s that’s really a problem. But, but it it’s like when people discover, it’s like, well, hey. He seems to be ai reasonable. Or meh, I disagree with some things, but he’s not what a $100,000,000, you know, trained me to think that that’s what true
Speaker: 0
01:30:54
Right. The propaganda. So, like, what do you think could be done if you were president Fetterman? Let’s bring it back to that. What would you do about the border? Like, how do you secure the border but also allow a pathway for people to pursue their hopes and dreams in the United States?
Speaker: 1
01:31:11
Yeah. I I would I would have you know, for me, I would have start with the HR 2, and there are elements that are are they’re just not palatable to, there are members of my colleagues that, you know, that they come from, you know, more more deep blue states, and that becomes it’s not palatable to some people.
Speaker: 0
01:31:32
Sai How do you secure the border? How would that be done?
Speaker: 1
01:31:35
Well, I I I mean, it it’s it just, it’s gonna have it you know, the the best border deal is is the is the only one that can pass. And and it seems, you know, to you know, HR 2 HR 2 was described as, like, kind of like, you know, I I joke I call that the the only fans list of what Republicans want for for immigration.
Speaker: 0
01:31:55
Why The
Speaker: 1
01:31:56
only fans wish list. You know? They’re kinda like, this is what we all want. You know? But, you know, it’s like the OnlyFans. This is what, this is what we sana. And that was that was never gonna pass.
Speaker: 0
01:32:05
What do you mean by that?
Speaker: 1
01:32:07
That was never gonna pass. That was never gonna pass. That that was ai what every Republicans on the house, you know, the hard the ai that that that’s what it was. And they passed it because in this cycle, the Republicans have the majority in the house. And now they they put that up, and that’s never gonna pass in the sana because we have control. And then, yeah, that kinda got ai.
Speaker: 1
01:32:30
And then when everything kinda came together, and that was the aid deal, that was for Ukraine, for Israel, and for China.
Speaker: 0
01:32:38
Lot of other stuff in there.
Speaker: 1
01:32:40
And then, and then the Republicans tied the border to to passing vatsal. And and there were some people that were frustrated saying, hey. No. No. That’s that’s that’s, that’s
Speaker: 0
01:32:53
that’s one of the more frustrating things about bills is that you can take a bill about an issue, say energy or whatever, immigration, and attach a bunch of other stuff ai support for foreign aid, support for specific wars, or whatever it is. You could throw a bunch of stuff in there that really shouldn’t be in there, and then you have these bills that are 2,000 pages long, and no one’s really reading them.
Speaker: 1
01:33:17
I I thought well, I thought it was reasonable. I thought it was reasonable to have that conversation. I’m like, yeah. Let’s have that conversation.
Speaker: 0
01:33:21
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:33:21
I mean, because for me, it was about security, and for that aid that aid, bill. That was, for me, and I think that was that was our global war on democracy.
Speaker: 0
01:33:33
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:33:33
You know, whether it’s Ukraine or whether it’s in Israel and and China and, clearly, what their intent for China is on Taiwan. And and all of that’s coming, and and that’s really what’s under assault. It’s undeniable that democracy is under under attack, and that’s why I’m like, hey.
Speaker: 1
01:33:48
We gotta stand, and we gotta push back against that. And now and now and, like, hey. And we need to have a secure border, so let’s put everything together. And we reached that we we actually reached that, and and it took months. It literally took months.
Speaker: 0
01:34:00
But give me your utopian version of it. Like, let’s assume that you could just get this passed. What would you do? What would you do to secure the border but also provide a pathway to people that want a better life?
Speaker: 1
01:34:14
It’s only gonna have to be a negotiating way ai palatable to both sides.
Speaker: 0
01:34:19
I understand that, but what would you do if you knew you could just get something through without this negotiation? What do you think could be done? What’s the best version of it? What’s the utopian version for John Fetterman?
Speaker: 1
01:34:32
Well, again, I I think, eventually, if you are living your best lives and you’re following the law and you’re, you know, and you really just showed up because, hey. I have no path for a for for a a life that I would want for my kids. You know? It’s like and and that’s to me, that’s very American.
Speaker: 1
01:34:48
And remember what’s in this in the what’s inside the the Statue of Liberty. It’s like sana us, you know, our our, tired, huddled masses too. They it wasn’t just, hey. Send in the PhDs and the Right. You know, and and those kinds of things. I mean, that’s what really made our nation.
Speaker: 1
01:35:03
And, you know, the steel industry the steel industry, you know, in my part of the state, that came from it was European. It was all kinds of immigrants. They all came in. They couldn’t build the houses fast enough, and that was all, foreign labor. And they a lot of them were sacrificed because it was an incredibly dangerous business, in the steel industry. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:35:23
And and that that built our nation, and that became part of our society. And that’s really every every kinds of wave, you know, in that. And and to me, America has to be open and a path for anyone that’s playing by the rules because the the group that you’re from, or the part of, you all started the same kind of a process.
Speaker: 1
01:35:43
It’s inevitable. That that’s that’s the the the enduring truth, and that’s what made America speak, and that made us, make us strong.
Speaker: 0
01:35:50
I agree with you. So but what could physically be done to secure the border? I mean, the wall was sort of dismissed during the Trump administration, but it was also discussed during the Obama administration. Even Bill Clinton talked about the importance of having secure borders. What could be done physically to secure the border?
Speaker: 1
01:36:11
Yeah. Well, the the again, because that it’s like, that that becomes that becomes like a third rail. We can’t talk about this or,
Speaker: 0
01:36:19
let’s just I understand that politically, but let’s just assume that that’s not an issue. What would you want to do?
Speaker: 1
01:36:25
What it’s like Sai would wanna make sure that we first, we have to acknowledge the truth. It’s like immigration has been an issue because America is an amazing country, and they’re coming from broken countries where they’ve all recognized that there’s not a a meaningful path for them to have a quality of ai, and they’re willing to risk their lives.
Speaker: 1
01:36:45
And sometimes they even drown, and it’s like Sai can’t imagine turning turning like, could you imagine turning your children over to a ai? And, you know, they’re gonna, you know, go like like, if you’re trying to leave, imagine Ai like, hey. In in Pennsylvania, it’s like walking to North Carolina with your kids on your back. I mean, it’s like these are desperate kinds of situations. Right.
Speaker: 1
01:37:06
And it wasn’t an invasion in that sense. It was just people wanting to have a part of the American dream. 100%. Acknowledging where that’s at, and it needs to have a path. Otherwise, you’re gonna have to round up, and that’s not realistic, and there’s not the resources.
Speaker: 1
01:37:19
And and that’s gonna be incredibly disruptive, and it’s gonna be damaging, economically as as well too.
Speaker: 0
01:37:26
So how do you provide a pathway while also And so American
Speaker: 1
01:37:30
with in my speak. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:37:32
How do you provide a pathway while also securing the border?
Speaker: 1
01:37:37
Well, we we to to me, I think we can, you know, chew gum and and walk at the same time on this. And it’s not gonna be perfect. It’s gonna be messy, and it’s not gonna be,
Speaker: 0
01:37:48
ai But what would that look like?
Speaker: 1
01:37:50
Whether there’s a where it’s actually a a barrier or, you know, hiring, you know, thousands and thousands of more agents and whatever that it takes on that. And and it’s ai, the the best border deal in that situation is the best one that can that can be that can pass.
Speaker: 0
01:38:06
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:38:06
Because because ai, I I, you know, like, boy, if I could wake up with a perfect head of hair or, you know, I could, you know, it’s like, you know, but it’s it’s like, you know, practicing the possible, and we were as close as we’ve ever game in in in years years, and that never came to into
Speaker: 0
01:38:24
I understand what you’re saying that it has to pass, but what I’m saying is imagine that wasn’t the case. What could be done? Like, if we could all agree, we put politics aside and say, you know what? Everything John Fetterman is saying makes total sense.
Speaker: 1
01:38:39
We we have to put
Speaker: 0
01:38:40
that. Yeah. We do need a pathway for these people. It is a beautiful part of America. The reason why people come here in the 1st place is because it’s the land of opportunity, but meh we also have to keep Venezuelan gangs and prisoners from coming across and murderers and gang members and cartel
Speaker: 1
01:38:57
Yeah. And we have to we have to weed them out, and we have to we have to deport them. You know, we absolutely. It’s like this is an
Speaker: 0
01:39:04
So how do you find them, and how do you deport them? What’s that? How do you find them, and how do you deport them?
Speaker: 1
01:39:10
Well, again, that’s just ai taking taking some kind of an inventory of, like, who’s actually here on this? And we have to figure out who’s actually here on those kinds of a thing. And and and there are gonna be you know, it’s statistically, that’s a fact that out of x, uh,000,000 people, for example, you know, it’s it’s a fact that statistically that some that thinks terrible things are gonna be perpetrated by those things.
Speaker: 1
01:39:33
And, you know, statistically, in some sense that that Native Meh, not, you know, ai, not not not in not the Right. I know what you’re saying. But but, you know, American citizens, that’s that’s projected in those kinds of communities. I mean, just like the community that that brought my my wife and and their family to this to this country, and and that’s that’s ai where we’re at.
Speaker: 1
01:40:09
And I think what we’re seeing now in in this cycle, there are more and more Latinos that are, you know, they’re changing their views on some of the they’re like, hey. We do need we do need sai secure border on that. It’s not necessarily assumed that because you are a member of a demographic that that it’s it has to it’s all it’s not necessarily consistent that it’s gonna be strong blue kinds of
Speaker: 0
01:40:30
But we all want safety. Right? We all want safety. We all wanna minimize crime.
Speaker: 1
01:40:37
Yeah. Well, of course. Everyone. Of course. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:40:39
So you sana secure bryden to keep criminals from coming over here. That’s the major the the major impediment.
Speaker: 1
01:40:46
Yeah. Of course. And and a secure border with more and more resources put on that, and and that makes, it’s, but it’s it’s impossible to make sure that of course, you’re gonna have members of the immigration community that are gonna commit kinds of terrible kinds of crimes, and you’re gonna see and those are gonna be talked about in the, popular media as well.
Speaker: 1
01:41:07
It’s undeniable. And, I mean, they’re incredibly tragic, and it’s it’s it’s, it’s a fact. And that’s actually the truth of the American story. Immigration made our nation, and there were hard truths. And we have a hard truth right now, and we need to have a secure bryden, And we have to find a way to celebrate, immigrations and and the kinds of what immigrations and the contributions that they made to this nation, and also to weed out or to minimize the kinds of negative kinds of things and those kinds of resources because we can’t possibly support an unchecked kinds of a situation that we had, and I described that.
Speaker: 1
01:41:45
If you had 300,000 people showing up at the border, well, that’s the ai of Pittsburgh, you know, in a month. Like, where are they gonna go? You know, how are we gonna give them an American ram, already? Because they’re all gonna need to ai certain kinds of resources. And and that should never be controversial to say it’s ai we can’t that’s not sustainable.
Speaker: 1
01:42:03
And it’s ai if we want for every immigrant their American dream, it’s impossible if it’s if it’s unchecked like that. And it shouldn’t be controversial to ai to anyone politically.
Speaker: 0
01:42:15
No. It’s just reasonable what you’re saying is reasonable. What could be done, and who do you think is gonna do a better job to, boost our economy?
Speaker: 1
01:42:29
Well, I I I think it’s undeniable too. And, you know, I’m certainly not going to discount some of the ex the experience of some people that have been hit by eggs or other things or, you know, inflation. But but right now, the our economy right now, it’s it’s really it’s the world’s envy throughout all those things.
Speaker: 1
01:42:49
By any metric, it’s our unemployment, the stock market, and, you know, the hundreds of thousands of new jobs that are being created through it, all those things. And our our inflation now has been kind of eased back into to the check, but it’s undeniable that there was an incredible in inflation that hit certain kinds of families hard through those things.
Speaker: 1
01:43:12
And I think that the next kinds of wave, whether it’s AI or those other kinds of innovations, whether that it’s it’s green energy or those kinds of a thing. That’s sana continue to to juice, our, our our economy.
Speaker: 0
01:43:28
Well, AI is a big fear. Right? Because AI is sana come with automation, and automation is gonna come with removing jobs.
Speaker: 1
01:43:34
That is a challenge. Ai like, on my walk here well, I didn’t walk here, but I saw I saw a Waymo. A Waymo drove by meh, and there was I’m like, wait a minute. There’s no one in there.
Speaker: 0
01:43:42
No one in there.
Speaker: 1
01:43:42
There was no one in that car.
Speaker: 0
01:43:43
Did you see the
Speaker: 1
01:43:44
That that’s the first time I
Speaker: 0
01:43:45
traffic jam?
Speaker: 1
01:43:46
Yeah. That’s the first time I’ve ever seen a car, and had literally no human was in that vehicle. And I was like, wow.
Speaker: 0
01:43:52
There’s a bunch of them around Austin, and there was a traffic jam in Austin where they all got together
Speaker: 1
01:43:57
in the
Speaker: 0
01:43:57
intersection and no one knew what to do. Yeah. Because all the robots were just, like, clogging up this intersection?
Speaker: 1
01:44:04
Yeah. Like, we a lot of that came from Pittsburgh too. And you would see those kinds of cars, but it always had a human in there. But that was the first time I saw, like, a robot car driving around in in Austin. And, yes, that creates there’s a lot of dislocation that’s possible.
Speaker: 0
01:44:18
And that’s just the beginning. It’s gonna be shipping. It’s gonna be truckers. I mean, that was a big issue with the longshoremen and the teamsters that were gonna go on strike. Yeah. Please have some more water. Here. Here. Thank you.
Speaker: 0
01:44:33
You’re welcome. I mean, that was a that was a big part of one of their demands was that, you know, they see what’s going on in China. They see that they’re using automation to completely control shipping yards, that it’s all done with machines and computers now. And this is gonna displace a lot of people.
Speaker: 0
01:44:51
This is something that Andrew Yang talked about in-depth when he was running for president because he was talking about the need for some kind of universal basic income to provide people with, you know, money and food and housing because jobs are gonna be non existent in a lot of different sectors, a lot of different markets, a lot of different things that have traditionally been done by people, specifically driving.
Speaker: 0
01:45:14
Driving is sana be a gigantic one. It’s all gonna be done by computers.
Speaker: 1
01:45:19
Yeah. Well, I I mean, universal guaranteed income. I I I’m I’m not sure. Sai don’t know because you’re gonna have to have that’s a lot of resources to provide a lot of that, and and that creates all kinds of other issues and dynamic. But I’m not afraid of I’m not afraid of technology, but it’s also acknowledging that there are gonna be kinds of changes in those things.
Speaker: 1
01:45:40
And and and I’m a big believer, and technology takes us into a more productive kinds of economy, and they’re gonna help solve some of the challenges that we have in our society, for those kinds of things. But I I think we have to find the perfect balance that we we don’t stifle innovation, but we also but we also have to remember that there are going to be people that might be left behind or they’re not they’re gonna struggle.
Speaker: 1
01:46:03
I mean, hey. I was mayor for 13 days, and I live in a community that was left behind by some of those things. And now the steelworkers the steelworkers, I live across the street ram, the steel mill, and then it was announced that Nippon was buying US Steel. And, basically, all those steel workers were they were done. You know, they used euphemism saying, well, we’re gonna honor current label, should be labeled deals.
Speaker: 1
01:46:27
Well, that’s a euphemism saying as soon as that’s up, you’re done.
Speaker: 0
01:46:31
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:46:31
And then that’s gonna be, you know, thousands of of union jobs. And if you think it’s gonna be easy for those men and women to to pull down 6 figures or those kinds of an income, it’s ai, you know, how uns you know, how insensitive to say, well, hey, learn coding ai whatever.
Speaker: 1
01:46:48
It’s like, well, hey, it’s no it’s not,
Speaker: 0
01:46:51
Coding is useless anyway. When AI learning to code is sana be useless.
Speaker: 1
01:46:55
Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker: 0
01:46:56
That’s how quickly things
Speaker: 1
01:46:57
change. Kinda like it’s basically kind of like a fuck you, like good luck Yeah. Kind of thing.
Speaker: 0
01:47:02
Well, it’s such a it’s a dumb fuck you too because even when they said learn to code, like, that was like, you know, they’re saying, hey, you could learn
Speaker: 1
01:47:09
to code. ai, I’m not gonna learn how to
Speaker: 0
01:47:11
But here’s the thing, even if you did, that’s how quickly things change. Even if you did, now they’re telling kids learning coding in universities is not necessarily gonna be a pathway to a job because all coding is gonna be done by artificial intelligence.
Speaker: 1
01:47:24
Yeah. Well, but but, you know, I they never even told us that they were gonna sell that. And then I was a a staffer sent me a picture on CNN saying that they’re they’re selling UST. I’m like, fuck that. And so I just went up on my roof, and I had a video saying, hey. I promise I’m gonna do anything I can to to to jam that up.
Speaker: 1
01:47:42
And it’s ai, that’s what we did. And we worked with the White House. And then suddenly, all of that got jammed up. And suddenly, I’m so surprised, wink on wink, but Nippon found extra 1,000,000,000 of dollars to make the kinds of upgrades to to secure us a future for those facilities in the Mon Valley.
Speaker: 1
01:48:00
And and to me, it’s about following the union way of life. You know, to me, steel is national security. And to me, if you turn your back on the working, union families, I mean, that it’s like this it’s it’s those are really hard to replace those things. And so for me, 2 things are true at the same time. You know, the our economy has evolved.
Speaker: 1
01:48:23
But when we have an opportunity to stand for the union way of life and we can’t ever just out out, outsource, you know, our steel industry Right. Like, I refuse to to do that. So and that’s why we’re in that situation right now that it’s like, hey. It’s like that that’s what’s true about some of these industries.
Speaker: 0
01:48:44
One of the things that I was reading that was really crazy, and I’d love you to find out how much of this is accurate, Jamie. One of the things was this guy was explaining how scrap metal in the United States is shipped to China where they make things with it instead of making things here because and then we buy what they make with our scrap metal, which seems to me kind of insane.
Speaker: 0
01:49:07
There’s a there’s a American manufacturing is a sai significant problem that we faced, and it was really highlighted during COVID, right, where there wasn’t ships coming in because everything was kinda locked down for a ai. And people ai, like, hey, So much of what we need, particularly computer chips and meh, so much of what we need is being made overseas.
Speaker: 1
01:49:33
I agree. And then that’s and that’s why, you know, Congress came together sana and, president Biden led the the whole chips the whole chips, you know, legislation. And it’s ai, we gotta make our we gotta make shit in America. Right. And it’s like, of course, the future is in those kinds of industries and those things.
Speaker: 1
01:49:49
So we gotta we have to protect the American economy for that thing, and and that’s why that’s a bipartisan ai of, of of a push for that. And and the the, and COVID, that relieved a lot of vulnerable vulnerabilities. It’s ai, where a lot of these things come ram? Or, so but but going going forward on that, it’s like we can never just surrender that, American manufacturing.
Speaker: 1
01:50:18
We can’t assume and we can’t allow that to turn, completely outsourced.
Speaker: 0
01:50:23
No. Ai mean, it’s it would be horrible, and it would be nice to bring things back. And it’s also, you know, one of the things we’ve been discussing a lot is that so many of the things that we need today, like particularly phones, are being made in, an unethical way, ai, where we would never allow the working conditions that exist in these factories overseas where American corporations are having their products made in a way that you would never legally be able to do in Meh, and yet they’re doing this just to make more money.
Speaker: 0
01:50:54
And that Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:50:54
Well, let me let’s also talk about rare rare rare, ram earth stuff. I mean, the Ai have strategically just, you know, snapped up that that arya. Ai mean, that’s really that’s a significant security issue. We have we’re gonna have to we’re gonna have to address that, and and thankfully thankfully, we have identified as some large deposits.
Speaker: 1
01:51:13
I think it was Nevada, but but rare earth kinds of minerals. I mean, that’s a serious security issue because the new economy and a lot of the new technology is gonna depend on those kinds of incredibly I think, a lot of kinds of minerals that some people have never even heard in their life have no idea what that even why that’s important.
Speaker: 0
01:51:32
Right. And then oil as well. I mean, we have significant oil reserves in the United States. Apparently, we have more oil than other countries do. It’s just a matter of accessing it. So are you in favor of drilling for oil and fracking and all these different things to
Speaker: 1
01:51:46
Yeah. A 100%. And and that that that that’s that that’s what’s also true, is especially what happened after after Russia invaded. And it was very clear that, Europe had have Russians ai of by the short hairs that a lot of their Europe was they were dependent on some of the Russian gas.
Speaker: 1
01:52:08
Right. That’s a fact too. And, you know, it’s also it’s also what’s true is that fossil fuels are part of our energy stack. You know? Our energy has to evolve, whether that’s hydrogen or nuclear. Now even nuclear, that conversation’s reemerging. You know, I grew up in South Pennsylvania. Maybe you’ve heard of, 3 Ai.
Speaker: 1
01:52:31
Sure. 3 Mile Island. Yeah. Ai had to evacuate when that happened. Ai was 9. Yeah. I had to evacuate.
Speaker: 0
01:52:36
Wow.
Speaker: 1
01:52:37
Because they they could they could have turned you know, we could have never returned. I mean, that was really tense. Now they’re reopening that because ai Microsoft is gonna buy the electricity because now that’s gonna be nuclear to to run the the the data centers and those things.
Speaker: 1
01:52:53
It’s an important conversation. So if you are committed, and I think it’s you know, I do believe, that you you really have to make sure that nuclear is part of that conversation too because, you know, 0 zero kinds of emissions, and that’s dependable kinds of energy that doesn’t depend on the wind or the sun.
Speaker: 1
01:53:11
But, ironically, some people pretend that, you have to have a conversation. So but, you know, for for the foreseeable future that fossil fuels are part of our speak, and for me, energy security is it’s very important, you know, national security. I mean, like, if we can’t if we can’t power our economy, then it’s gonna it’s a significant risk for our economy in our Meh way.
Speaker: 1
01:53:39
And and, you know, now we I think we’re a net exporter of energy. Sai I think that’s a that’s a good thing. Ai think that’s a great way to be, and it’s being honest about that and the path forward. And and I think we you know, everything has to be on the table because we have to have a portfolio that produces the the kinds of energy that we’re gonna need to power our economy.
Speaker: 0
01:54:04
Another significant issue that a lot of people are concerned about is government interference in, online censorship. And what what was exposed during the Twitter files that the FBI had contacted the original owners of Twitter and prevented that or instructed them that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation, was trying to get certain accounts banned that we’re talking about COVID vaccines and the dangers of side effects and what the actual research was showing, and that this was a significant interference in the First Amendment and that these corporations that were running these social media companies were being directly influenced by the federal government.
Speaker: 0
01:54:49
And they were using this power to silence people from speaking out against certain things. This is this is very concerning to a lot of people. This idea that the government would infringe on our ability to be whistleblowers, to expose issues that have been hidden from the American people because of greed and money and politics.
Speaker: 0
01:55:09
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker: 1
01:55:13
Well, of course, I mean, I’m I’m a I’m a a free speech ai of person, and and I I think social media is is it’s it’s kinda difficult to control. There then there’s a difference between misinformation or just outright lying, or it’s an agenda of a foreign nation that’s trying to to sai all these kinds of of sentiments and those kinds of, of of of things, and and it’s kind of difficult to to police, all those things, and it’s a lot of, it’s an ongoing kind of, of a of a sit situation.
Speaker: 1
01:55:45
So, but I’m always sana try to on the side of free speech. And then there’s incredibly more and more kinds of platforms just like one I’m on right now talking about these kinds of things. And I Sai am not, you know, clutching my pearls if there’s having conversations that I may or may not agree or disagree on what’s being talked about those things.
Speaker: 1
01:56:04
But I think people are also there’s also a level of responsibility to be, you know, to discern what you’re hearing. It’s ai, you know, I think that that’s true, or I think that’s trash, or it’s ai those kinds of thing. And just because always asking myself in what I’ve read, is that just true, or is there a perspective? Where is it coming from?
Speaker: 1
01:56:23
Who’s behind those kinds of a thing? Sai, I mean, it’s it’s a difficult ai of what’s the the appropriate kind of balance, but it’s absolutely, it’s also a fact that there are are bad actors behind some of those kinds of conversations or some of those kinds of misinformation as well too.
Speaker: 1
01:56:42
And absolutely, incitement incitement is not free speak, you know, and and encouraging people for for, violence or those kinds of a thing. I, I mean, it’s it’s it’s sai terrible kind of bounce.
Speaker: 0
01:56:54
It’s dangerous. Yeah. And but the what the fear is that the government was interfering when you had 51 former intelligence agents that were testifying that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation when it seems pretty clear that they knew that to not be true and that Twitter actually listened to these people and they did block that And it did probably have a significant impact on the 2020 election.
Speaker: 1
01:57:20
Yeah. Well, but the other thing that had a significant impact was, in 2020, Ai forget his his name, but he had to investigate, you know, Clinton’s about the emails. Yeah. Like, you know, 2 weeks out. That was, like, the ultimate October ai is what Right. And that undeniable that had a significant impact as well too.
Speaker: 0
01:57:38
That vatsal 2016.
Speaker: 1
01:57:40
Ai? It it it absolutely it absolutely did as well too. So, I mean, that’s why There’s both sides, and they have, agendas to suppress some kinds of a thing or to to bring something to the front. And it’s undeniable that it can have an impact on that as well too. I never went down either of those, you know, rabbit holes, whether it was the Clinton emails or if it was the Hunter Biden’s kind of of laptop.
Speaker: 1
01:58:00
So but it hasn’t really changed overall, the dynamic that in our cycles, the last three cycles, it’s really it’s about for me, it’s about a referendum on what we sana, a vision for America. Is it a Trump ai of a of a vision, or do we have an alternative? And I’ve always been very clear.
Speaker: 1
01:58:20
It’s gonna be incredibly close, and it’s gonna be incredibly, at times, very divisive. And and and here we are now, and it’s still back to a coin toss, and I’ve always predicted that it would be, you know, even back to 2016 because, you know, we’re really gonna have a lot settled out before this election.
Speaker: 1
01:58:37
It’s gonna take America in a very too stark and distinctive kinds of directions.
Speaker: 0
01:58:43
What do you think about Elon Musk’s idea of creating a government efficiency agency?
Speaker: 1
01:58:50
Well, I hey. I I flagged, when Musk, when Musk got involved. I I I flagged that. Anyone can look online. I can see that. It’s like, well, you know, endorsements and and and surrogacy, doesn’t really amount for much. It doesn’t count for much a lot and ai, but but, I mean, that was a that was a significant, and he’s getting involved, and he’s showing up at those kinds of, of events.
Speaker: 1
01:59:17
I mean, you know, in some sense, I’ve said this publicly that he’s even a bigger ai of star than than Trump can be. And for some people in Pennsylvania, like, that’s Tony Stark. Right. He’s involved in undeniably kinds of of important things ai SpaceX or he was one of the original, charter.
Speaker: 1
01:59:37
He was in the charter of, OpenIA. He was involved in that too. So, I mean, that’s that’s significant. And and I don’t agree with some of his some of his use in politics, but it’s undeniable that he can move the needle in some sense of of convince some people that it’s like, hey.
Speaker: 1
01:59:54
If if he says that he’s the the right choice for president, that that’s gonna that’s gonna that’s gonna resonate in in some in some circles in Pennsylvania, and and I’ve I’ve worn that. And acknowledging it, it it’s just like that that’s it’s just like, hey. I I know people, and they admire him.
Speaker: 1
02:00:14
And you may not agree with his politics, but you you really it’s it’s impossible to ignore that he is gonna have a level of of of, impact on that. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:00:25
But what do you think about the idea of trying to make the government more efficient and that this hasn’t been audited before?
Speaker: 1
02:00:32
And, of course, I hey, I’m open to any kinds of ideas and all those kinds of a thing, on all of that. One ai doesn’t have a monopoly on good ideas or important kinds of issues that that are that are matter to them. So, and and it’s ai the choices and the kinds of things and how he’s chosen to participate, especially and very personally in in Pennsylvania. I’m like, hey.
Speaker: 1
02:00:57
Here’s where we are. That’s part of the dynamic here, you know, calling it out and acknowledging that. I’m not moving against that. I’m not criticizing whatever. It’s just like, hey. It’s happening.
Speaker: 1
02:01:07
So, and that I think that’s part of why things continue to get tighter, and and that that’s that’s kind of here we where we are.
Speaker: 0
02:01:16
Well, I think what a lot of people are excited about with Trump is this possibility of change. The the Elon Musk edition is one of them, or RFK Junior is another one. This idea of making America healthy again, removing additives from foods that have shown to be toxic, they’re illegal in other countries.
Speaker: 0
02:01:32
I mean, this is, I think, a significant issue that shouldn’t be a partisan issue. This should be something that we all should be concerned with. Why do we have ingredients in our food that is illegal in a bunch of European countries because they found out that these things are dangerous?
Speaker: 1
02:01:49
I agree. Look. You know, go to McDonald’s in in, like, the UK. You know, the the French fries has 3 ingredients, potato, salt, and Ai think maybe oil. And then look at look at what’s in Meh side on that. It’s much different. I hey. I support that. But if anything if it’s anything, you know, more of, and I know I know your city that we’re in now, Austin has an amazing food kinds of scene.
Speaker: 1
02:02:11
And and, again, you know, if anything, more of the crunchy, more liberal side were on part of the whole organic kinds of a thing and more impurity and things. I I don’t think that’s an issue, and I and I, honestly, I don’t think that that’s gonna be the kind of mantle that somebody like, you know, RFK junior, that’s not his.
Speaker: 1
02:02:28
Ai I I think having a more pure and safe and abundant kinds of food in in our country. I absolutely support that. And, you know, I’m I’m selective what I what I, feed Ai feed my children. I mean, when we were you know, when I was a kid, it was like Velveeta. You know? Like, hey. Now we have real cheese.
Speaker: 1
02:02:47
Or did did you ever have, like, ecto cooler, like that green, ai, antifreeze kind of color of Ai c? And some of the kinds of foods that that we had when I was a kid, that would be unthinkable kinds now. And I think I think the quality of our food and and kinds of more impure, Ai think that’s that’s been an ongoing conversation, and, organic can’t become elitist.
Speaker: 1
02:03:13
It can’t be it can’t be too expensive, and and I fully support making it more and more more more pure and more safe on that.
Speaker: 0
02:03:23
And more available.
Speaker: 1
02:03:24
And I Ai would absolutely I would celebrate if if I could buy the same, French fries that you get in the UK that it’s Yeah. I think there’s if you don’t need more than 3 ingredients I
Speaker: 0
02:03:33
have a buddy of mine who lives in Australia, and, he came over to Meh, and he he loves quarter pounders in Australia. Because he said quarter pounders in Australia, it’s grass fed meat that’s just fried with cheese in a bun. And he said he got a quarter pounder over here. He’s ai, what the fuck is this? He sai, it tastes like shit.
Speaker: 0
02:03:52
It was just it was bland and it didn’t
Speaker: 1
02:03:56
taste Royal with cheese? Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:03:57
I don’t know what they call it in Australia, but he said it’s grass fed beef. You get, ai, you know, they’re not even feeding their cows grain.
Speaker: 1
02:04:05
Well, you know, a a lot of the the the grass fed beef in in in our nation are coming from Australia. I mean Which
Speaker: 0
02:04:13
is crazy.
Speaker: 1
02:04:14
Yeah. That that’s that’s a fact, and I’m very pro pro American rancher.
Speaker: 0
02:04:18
Well, not only that. It’s it’s really fucked up because you could make it a product of America if you butcher it here. So if you import cattle from Australia, say Yeah. And and then you bring it to America and then you cut it up and then package it. Because you’ve cut it up and packaged it, it’s now a product of Meh. So you could write that on the label.
Speaker: 0
02:04:41
You know, I had, Will Harris who runs White Oak Pastures, which is a regenerative farm. This guy spent 20 years in untold dollars changing an industrial farm that his family had and turning it into a regenerative farm. And in doing so, ai people with a meh more natural and healthy choice, and he’s also done a great job of exposing these practices.
Speaker: 1
02:05:08
Yeah. I mean, grass grass fed beef. I mean, I think that’s, I think that’s very in some sense, I mean, that’s that that absolutely supports better health. I mean Yeah. I was I, I followed before he even appeared on your on your podcast, Shah Baker.
Speaker: 0
02:05:24
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
02:05:25
Yeah. You know, like, carnivore. And and, you know, even those kinds of insights helped me personally and allowed me to kind of drop some, ai some weight through all those things. And, you know, it’s like that’s an important conversation too. It’s like, you know, and but but Ai, some people think that we’re declared a war on on hamburgers and and beef, but we’re definitely gonna lose that.
Speaker: 1
02:05:48
They’re gonna lose that if if that really becomes part of that. And and I,
Speaker: 0
02:05:52
I don’t think that’s democrats. I think that’s very wealthy people that have a financial interest in feeding people fake meat. That’s what I think it is, and I think they’ve captured the system.
Speaker: 1
02:06:02
I sai it, it it it pains me to agree with with, DeSantis, you know, because they passed the, you know, ban in that in Florida. It it pains me to agree with them, but it’s like I mean, I would never feed I would never feed that sai to to my kids when you can buy, you know, quality American grass fed, American beef.
Speaker: 1
02:06:21
Like, I mean, that’s that’s what I purchased that. I use that at Costco. Ai buy the 3 pack of it, and, and and I my my oldest son, he knows how to to prepare, like, his own, rib ai, and and now he’s you know, makes that a part of, like a I think it’s ai a healthy kinds of, a diet.
Speaker: 0
02:06:42
Yeah. For sure. What other issues do you think we should discuss before we wrap this up? Is there anything else that’s on your mind that do you think is significant that needs to be discussed?
Speaker: 1
02:06:53
Oh, before we wrap up, Ai I I well, I I think we have a situation, whether it’s the situation on on on Israel or, those, there’s there’s a lot happening about the the election right now, but but, it it’s really a strange place in our nation right now. But I promise you, it’s gonna be depending on whenever people hear this conversation. Our world’s gonna be about to change or maybe has changed.
Speaker: 1
02:07:20
And so I just hope though I just hope though that we’re gonna be able to respond in a way for an bryden, kinds of transfer of power, and we are gonna be heading into a more peaceful and a more productive and collaborative kind of direction throughout that, but we’re in an incredibly divisible place right now.
Speaker: 1
02:07:43
And, I I just wanna be part of a conversation to make sure that that we can be more constructive, but it’s right now, we’re kind of, it’s it’s a difficult place right now, and we’re coming down to a coin toss, election. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
02:07:59
I agree. I hope we, can all relax and work together cooperatively. Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen, man. Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. Thank you for taking the time to come here and talk. It’s been great to get to know you and have a conversation with you.
Speaker: 1
02:08:16
No. Hey. Well, hey. Thank you for having it’s it’s, as a fan, it’s great to kind of, visit and, so thanks for having me. So
Speaker: 0
02:08:24
My pleasure. Alright. Best of luck to you. Thank you. Alright. Bye, everybody ai.
