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#2210 – Calley Means & Casey Means, MD Podcast Episode Description
Dr. Casey Means is the Co-Founder of Levels Health, which provides insights into metabolic health through real-time data. Calley Means is the Co-Founder of Truemed, which enables HSA spending on healthy food, supplements and exercise. They are the co-authors of “Good Energy.”
www.caseymeans.com
www.calleymeans.com
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#2210 – Calley Means & Casey Means, MD Podcast Episode Top Keywords
#2210 – Calley Means & Casey Means, MD Podcast Episode Summary
Based on the provided reviews and discussions, several key themes emerge regarding Spotify and Amazon:
1. Music and Content Discovery: There is a mixed perception of Spotify’s music recommendation algorithm. Some users find it highly effective and tailored to their tastes, while others feel that the curated playlists and genre-based suggestions are unimpressive and not personalized enough. The quality of music recommendations is noted to have decreased over time for some users.
2. User Experience and Interface: The ease of use and non-clunkiness of Spotify’s interface is highlighted as a positive aspect. However, there are mentions of difficulties in finding content and a lack of updates and new features, which led some users to switch to other services.
3. Social and Collaborative Features: Users express dissatisfaction with Spotify’s social features, such as shared playlists and listening activities, indicating a desire for more robust collaborative tools.
4. Content Variety and Exclusivity: The move towards video content and exclusive deals, such as with Joe Rogan, is seen as a strategic shift for Spotify. While some appreciate the variety, others are critical of exclusivity and prefer open access to content.
5. Ethical and Philosophical Considerations: There is a discussion around Spotify’s stance on censorship and its role in promoting art without interference. This is contrasted with Amazon, where sellers feel abandoned and overshadowed by international competitors.
6. Monetization and Revenue Models: The financial incentives for creators on Spotify, especially with video content, are noted as significant, with some creators earning more from Spotify than other platforms like YouTube.
7. Alternative Services: Some users have switched to other music streaming services that offer better features, more personalization, and a more active approach to new music trends.
8. Cultural and Historical Context: References to the evolution of music consumption from piracy to paid services like Spotify highlight the importance of convenience and accessibility in user adoption.
Overall, the reviews reflect a complex landscape where Spotify is praised for its algorithm and user interface but criticized for its social features, content exclusivity, and perceived decline in music recommendation quality. Amazon faces challenges with seller relations and competition dynamics.
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#2210 – Calley Means & Casey Means, MD Podcast Episode Transcript (Unedited)
Speaker: Calley Means
00:01
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
Speaker: Casey Means
00:03
The Joe Rogan experience.
Speaker: Calley Means
00:06
Showing my day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
00:12
What’s up?
Speaker: Calley Means
00:12
Nice to
Speaker: Joe Rogan
00:13
meet you guys.
Speaker: Calley Means
00:14
Great to
Speaker: Casey Means
00:14
meet you. Us, Joe.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
00:15
Thanks for coming here. I’m all happy, but this is not a happy subject. I don’t know. It’s probably a bad way to start off a podcast of how fucked we are. But, I really appreciate what you guys have been doing, and get I I think I first saw you on Tucker and, the the details of all the stuff you guys have exposed is it’s not I mean, it’s shah, but it’s not surprising.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
00:38
It’s, it’s really crazy. So can we get into this like you used to be on the dark side? Let’s start with you. Tell everybody, your background, like, how you got started with this.
Speaker: Calley Means
00:50
We were born and raised in Washington DC. And I thought being a good young conservative was supporting the farm industry or supporting the food industry, defending those industries. So Sai went to Stanford with Casey. She studied biology. I studied political science and economics and went on campaigns, but then was a lobbyist.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:04
Everyone bipartisan in DC goes to work for the food and the farm industry. And on one morning, I’m working with the farm industry to literally steer money to the dean of Stanford Med School, who’s a pain specialist, to be put on an NIH panel to say that opioids in 2011, that the issues around addiction were overblown.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:23
And he we we actually helped engineer an NIH panel to to issue a report to sai, opioids are okay. Pain is a crisis. And then later in the afternoon, working for food companies, working for Coke, steering money to institutions of trust, steering money to the NAACP, to say that, taking Coke off food stamps was racist.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:42
Coke soda today to this day is the number one item on food stamps. What I realized meh is that we are, profiting. The biggest industries, the biggest spenders in the country are profiting from kids, particularly getting addicted, sick, and fear, and then and then drugging them and and profiting from that.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:57
What what is the conversation like when you guys are formulating a strategy to try to pretend that opioids aren’t a problem? Like, how what are the conversations like?
Speaker: Calley Means
02:08
This is really important for people to understand. The institutional ai of system, which was greatly impacted by Casey’s awakening, is that it takes good people and gives them plausible deniability. Nobody’s in those back ram conspiring and trying to be an evil person. They’re literally talking do you know these junior staffers like me about the scourge of pain, you know, and how we have to get this innovation of opioids to the American people?
Speaker: Calley Means
02:31
Now it’s about obesity and trying to get Ozempic to 6 year olds, which is now the standard of care. In the rooms, it’s about doing what’s right and getting this innovation to the American people, and everyone can ai of fool themselves. With the food, it’s about getting cheap calories to kids. You know?
Speaker: Calley Means
02:46
It’s not we’re gonna buy off and weaponize these academic research institutions ai Harvard to say sugar doesn’t cause obesity and then pay the NAACP to say lower income people need to be getting their government subsidized Coke. It’s that we’re promoting choice. And I I really did believe that, and people believe that.
Speaker: Calley Means
03:01
I think there there’s there’s pings that that’s coming through in so many ways, of people realizing this really isn’t going the right direction. I think you see it with suicide rate among doctors, the burnout rate among doctors. The fact that every friend I have from Harvard Business School who went into the pharma industry, who went into the food industry, There’s there’s chronic rates of depression among elite business people.
Speaker: Calley Means
03:24
I I think people are starting to realize this, but but but still, in these rooms, it’s about doing the right thing. You you convince yourself of that.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
03:31
Wow. So it’s just everyone’s sort of captured by this thing, and nobody steps out of the ai.
Speaker: Calley Means
03:37
I mean, the highest level, Joe, you know, I think we don’t realize that there’s a defining existential issue in our country where our major institutions have been captured. I think there’s, like, pings of consciousness trying to alert us to this. Like, you know, you having people on that are calling this stuff out, trying to ring the alarm bell, and people flocking to this shah.
Speaker: Calley Means
03:57
You know, ai from the military industrial complex, from the health care industrial complex. I think Elon being the richest person at the the world ai to sell us something, it’s like, let’s get resources to these people calling these things out. I think it’s like Donald Trump. Like, I’ve been thinking about this a lot. Why is he the defining figure of our lifetime?
Speaker: Calley Means
04:15
Like, why have voters again and again and again gone to him and said, you know, this MAGA movement, like, why are we, like, supporting this person, making him the defining person of our generation? What does he represent? He represents, like, putting finger on something that’s just not quite right with institutions.
Speaker: Calley Means
04:28
And I think the problem is we can’t quite wrap our hand head around how bad it is and how so many people are complicit, but there’s all these signs right now. And I think I think we’re gonna be brought to our knees if we don’t realize this, that our institutions have been captured.
Speaker: Calley Means
04:42
Like, to me, health care, what Casey talks about, it’s it’s a really visceral example of something just not right with what’s happening to food, what’s happening to our kids’ health. And I think it’s happening to the military too or the military industrial complex. Like, I’m truly worried that we’re on the verge of almost a societal level collapse with what’s happening to our food, what’s happening to our health, what’s happening with the potential nuclear war.
Speaker: Calley Means
05:03
And I think we have people starting to realize this, and they’re trying to, like, lunge out for it, but we’re being told it’s alarmist. We’re being told it’s a conspiracy theory. And and to me, that that’s what we’ve kind of landed on this health issue. Let’s just bring it down to the facts of what’s happening to kids. Let’s bring it down to just like, forget the conspiracy theory.
Speaker: Calley Means
05:22
What even anyone’s saying in this ram? Let’s look what’s happened to our food and look what’s happened to kids. Because by the stats we’re seeing, there’s something really dark happening. Like like, outside any conspiracy theory, just the statistics of what is happening to our health in this country and uniquely in America is dark.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
05:37
And so, Casey, if you could do do the same sort of to explain how you got on this path. You you started off with medical school. Yeah. And
Speaker: Casey Means
05:46
Yeah. So just like Cali, you know, we grew up in DC. I was I loved biology, went to Stanford Medical School, went on to do surgical residency sana head and neck surgery, ai the ladder, you know, do what every good medical student and, resident is supposed to do, climb the academic ranks, publish papers, etcetera.
Speaker: Casey Means
06:04
And so I was heads down in that journey. And just like Kelly’s saying, like, with what I think is happening with the American people right now and really more globally, like, there was something inside of me that was whispering and then speaking a little louder and then finally was a deafening call to me that, like, something is not right.
Speaker: Casey Means
06:25
Like, I’m operating. I’m working 80 hours a week. I’m operating, you know, 2, 3, 4, 5 surgeries a day. And, you know, in some ways, I feel good about that. You know, people maybe their sinusitis is a little better for a little while.
Speaker: Casey Means
06:37
But, fundamentally, when you pop up for just a second, which they don’t want you to do in health care, you know, everyone’s working their tails off. But when you pop up for just just a second and look around at what is happening to American health, children’s health, health across the lifespan, as well as global health, it’s a disaster.
Speaker: Casey Means
06:53
It’s literally a disaster. And, again, this isn’t people will say that’s alarmist, but I you know, in trying to understand, like, why don’t I feel right about my work, I just started looking at the data in a different way, and I started to look at what’s happening with health trends.
Speaker: Casey Means
07:08
And if you just kinda run through the list of what’s happening, it’s it’s unbelievable. Like, we are getting destroyed, and it’s very recent, and it’s accelerating. The stats speak for themselves. You know? You know this very well. 74% of Americans are overweight or obese. 50% now of American adults have type 2 diabetes or prediabetes.
Speaker: Casey Means
07:26
These were diseases where there was 1% of Americans in ai 50 had type 2 diabetes. Now it’s 50% of Americans have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes. Alzheimer’s dementia are going through the roof. Young adult dementias have increased, like, 3 times since 2012. So early onset meh is we’re seeing, you know, this 1 in 2 Americans are expected to have cancer in their lifetime now. 1 in 2.
Speaker: Casey Means
07:49
And young adult cancers are going up 79% in the last 10 years. We’ve got of course, the autism rates are absolutely astronomical. 1 in 36 children has autism now in the United States. That was 1 in 150 in the year 2000. And in California, where I live, it’s 1 in 22.
Speaker: Casey Means
08:05
1 in 22 with a lifetime neurodevelopmental disorder. We’ve got infertility going up 1% per year. 25% of men now under 40 have erectile dysfunction, a quarter of the country. You know, this is fundamentally a metabolic disease. We’ve got 77% of young Americans can’t serve in the military because of obesity or drug abuse.
Speaker: Casey Means
08:25
We’ve got we’ve got autoimmune diseases. Some studies are saying they’re going up 13% per year. It it’s just it’s it’s really unbelievable, and I could go through so many more diseases. Of course, we’ve got heart disease, which is almost totally preventable as the leading cause of death in the United States killing around 800,000 people per year.
Speaker: Casey Means
08:46
And I think what as I kinda just looked around and, again, these are just statistics. I started trying to put the pieces together. Why is this happening? Why are these all going up all at once? And that led me on what is now a 7, 8 year journey, ultimately leaving the surgical world, putting down my scalpel forever.
Speaker: Casey Means
09:04
Because what I realized is that when you go to the science with a root cause perspective, you go back to PubMed with a slightly different perspective, not how do I treat these diseases once they emerge, but why are they happening? You see a very obvious blaring answer, which is why we had to write a book about it, which is that it’s all caused by metabolic dysfunction, a term that I never learned in medical school.
Speaker: Casey Means
09:25
I learned about metabolic syndrome and the different individual diseases that make it up, but there is a problem. There is a fundamental breaking of our core cellular biology that is caused by our diet and the world we’re living in, the modern world we’re living in today, that is crushing the very way that the human body and our human cells can transmit food energy to life energy, to cellular energy.
Speaker: Casey Means
09:51
And so our bodies are essentially I mean, fundamentally, because metabolic health is how we make energy in the body, the way that our environment is now synergistic to you storing our metabolic health, and the science is very clear about this, it’s basically ai all of us are a little bit dead while we’re alive.
Speaker: Casey Means
10:09
That’s what metabolic dysfunction is. It’s less energy in the body. We’re underpowered. And that’s very dark. Like, when you step back and and say, okay.
Speaker: Casey Means
10:17
This is clear from the research, and I never learned it. I didn’t learn it at Stanford Meh School. I didn’t learn it in my surgical residency, and we could fix it. We could fix it really quickly if we all popped up and woke up and looked at the data and put pieces together.
Speaker: Casey Means
10:35
But, of course, we’re not trained to connect dots. That’s not our job in medicine. We are trained to follow algorithms and to be reactive. And so I think, you know, just to sort of kind of back up to the bigger picture of of why we’re so passionate about this, I think that the reason there’s a Meh movement.
Speaker: Casey Means
10:56
The reason that people are so passionate about your podcast that talks about this so much, People know that something’s not right, and people know that this health issue is the tip of the iceberg of what’s actually happening in our world today. It is a reflection. Our human health is simply a reflection of the destroyed ecosystem of our globe.
Speaker: Casey Means
11:19
The fact that we are we have forgotten that we’re completely connected to nature and we’re completely interdependent with nature, but the the health crisis is simply a reflection of a destroyed ecosystem, and humans have become so powerful and so technologically advanced and so connected in the recent decades that we now actually do have the power to both destroy the world and destroy our health.
Speaker: Casey Means
11:44
And the health is just the tip of the iceberg of a much bigger thing happening that is existential. And I think that’s peep we all want kids to be healthy. We all want humans to be healthy, but this is also it’s interconnected with all the systems and all the issues. And that’s I think it’s hard for people to to totally articulate that, but that is what’s happening. And we we actually we actually have a choice right now.
Speaker: Casey Means
12:07
And I do believe this is the moment that we need to decide. Are we going to address these interdependent issues, And are we going to make the effort and be courageous enough to fight for this? Or are we going to let ourselves be told that there’s nothing wrong, nothing to see here, while our health and the health of the planet is just absolutely being destroyed.
Speaker: Calley Means
12:34
Sai that
Speaker: Casey Means
12:35
that’s what our mission is.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
12:36
I think one of the most disturbing things about it is how few people are speaking out when the data is so obvious. And then when you guys lay it out and when people like Bryden Bueller or Andrew Huberman, when any of these people that are ai very focused on what the problems are lay it out, the the data is all there, but yet we’re not being told this anywhere other than the Internet.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
12:59
Right. It’s only independent shows that don’t rely on executives and networks where there’s pharmaceutical drug companies advertising or food companies, or in any of these things. You you don’t hear any of this stuff, I mean, other than Fox News has allowed you guys on a few times. Right?
Speaker: Calley Means
13:16
That’s right. They’re the only ones.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
13:17
Yeah. Well, kudos to them.
Speaker: Calley Means
13:19
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
13:20
It’s it’s a human issue and the fact that people are willing to take money to not talk about one of the biggest problems that we have. I didn’t even know about the childhood dementia thing or the young adult dementia thing.
Speaker: Calley Means
13:31
Well, ai 2 diabetes used to be never seen, you know, among kids in their career. Right. We used to be called early onset. They don’t call it early onset anymore. As Casey said, 33% of young adults now have prediabetes. I mean, this prediabetes is not some isolated thing. It’s the it’s the branch of the tree. It’s cellular dysregulation, and every single disease is going down. Alzheimer’s is now called type 3 diabetes.
Speaker: Calley Means
13:53
If you don’t have prediabetes or diabetes, you have a very diminished chance of having Alzheimer’s. And, you know, so so it makes total sense. But somebody from Harvard Medical School that ai in Alzheimer’s, their entire course load, their entire training, their entire focus is on accepting Alzheimer’s that it’s there, that it’s growing, and then figuring out marginal improvements for it.
Speaker: Calley Means
14:12
There’s literally people that are the highest educated people in the world do not even understand what causes these diseases. They’re just accepting that and and and making the, the cures for them, the the the marginal treatments.
Speaker: Casey Means
14:23
And I would just say also, like, if you if you do step back and look at everything holistically, like, one of the biggest problems with the health care industry right now is that it’s so siloed. We have over a 100 different medical and surgical subspecialties, and the business model of American health care right now is volume. It’s how many people can you sai.
Speaker: Casey Means
14:38
And so that’s what you get paid for. You don’t get paid for outcomes. You get paid for volume. And so that has incentivized a structure of health care where it’s most profitable to actually be seen by as many specialists as humanly possible. That’s what the average American is dealing with.
Speaker: Casey Means
14:50
They go to the primary care doctor with a list of issues and they get 8, 10 referrals, and they spend their life going through evolving doors of these different health care, offices and not actually really feeling better and they feel disappointed. And that’s why I think people are frustrated.
Speaker: Casey Means
15:03
So we’ve got all these doctors who are incentivized to really be head down in their specialty lane and not actually step out and look at the big picture of how things are connected when, in fact, it’s it’s all connected. We don’t see the body anymore And I I’m just telling you this from, like, sheer experience of being in medical school.
Speaker: Casey Means
15:22
Like, we are not trained to see the body as a unified system. We’re we’re trained to see it as 20, 30 different parts. And so no one’s seeing the forest or the trees. But ai Kelly is saying, like, look at what’s happening. Like, you look at look at what’s happening with kids.
Speaker: Casey Means
15:35
We’ve got ADHD through the roof, autism through the roof. These are neurodevelopmental issues. Then you look at midlife, well, women and men are depressed. We have huge rates of mental illness.
Speaker: Calley Means
15:46
25% of women? 5 percent of women?
Speaker: Casey Means
15:47
ai percent of women now are on SSRI. I mean, we’re living in, like, the wealthiest, safest country in human history and 25% of people are on SSRI. That’s insane. Then you go into menopause, perimenopause, that age group, and it’s sort of brain ai, and then we have full blown Alzheimer’s going up.
Speaker: Casey Means
16:02
So we’ve got all these neurodevelopmental issues and neurodegenerative issues sort of across the ai. And, you know, then you look at ai of the hormonal side of thing. We’ve got girls going through puberty much earlier than they ever were. You know, we we are the of continents on Earth, we are the earliest puberty rates right now.
Speaker: Casey Means
16:21
That’s gone down on an average 6 years since 1900. Our puberty rates are way earlier. So girls are reaching sexual maturity at, like, age 10. They’re
Speaker: Calley Means
16:28
getting cubic better.
Speaker: Casey Means
16:29
Then you’ve got, in midlife, you look at women, and infertility is the roof. We’ve got PCOS is affecting 26% of women as the metabolic fertility issue. It’s a leading cause of infertility in the country. Then we look at older age and, like, menopausal symptoms are a disaster for women.
Speaker: Casey Means
16:44
This is why a book like The New Menopause is, like, the number one book in the country for a while because women are desperate. So we if you step back and look at all these different things, we’ve got these neuro issues throughout the lifetime all exploding, these hormonal issues throughout the lifetime all exploding.
Speaker: Casey Means
16:58
It’s happening all over the place, but no one’s stopping asking ai. Like, why is this happening? Instead, we put ADHD in a bucket. We put depression and anxiety bucket. We put Alzheimer’s in a bucket. And so that’s that’s really the problem.
Speaker: Casey Means
17:11
And I think, you know, when you think about some of these things, it’s like ai becoming infertile, and we’re losing our minds across the lifespan. Like, what the hell is happening? Like, that’s what these diseases, these buckets of diseases represent. And I think that’s why I think it’s you know, we talked about, like, it’s a tip of the ice health is a tip of the iceberg of fundamentally, like, a planetary issue.
Speaker: Casey Means
17:34
But, like, the planetary issue is the tip of the iceberg of what I think is really, really going on here, which is, like, a spiritual issue. Like, we we we are, like, not fighting for life in this world anymore, and I think that’s more of a consciousness issue. You know? We talk about ai is no one covering this? It’s ai, I think people see it.
Speaker: Casey Means
17:54
I think in some way, we have, like, totally lost speak for, like, the miraculousness of life. That that’s what our actions are reflecting. Like, we know a lot. We have the technology, the money, and the resources to fix all of this, the planet and health, and we’re not. And that’s why I think there’s something darker happening on, like, the consciousness level.
Speaker: Casey Means
18:16
And I think we could get our way out of this if we like, I think it’s gonna be hard to get our way out of this if we stick to, like, partisan politics and quibbling about individual policy ideas. I think it has to start with, like, are we committed to life and to awe and to connecting with source and then listening and moving our way out of here, or are we not?
Speaker: Casey Means
18:39
And if we choose not, which is what I think we’re doing, I mean, I think there’s huge light happening because that’s why everyone’s interested in this. That’s why a lot of people are interested in this issue right now. But, like, if we don’t, like, I do think we’re on the road to existential disaster because we’re that powerful now.
Speaker: Casey Means
18:55
Like, our and so, you know, I think step 1 is us deciding, like, what choice do we wanna make in this lifetime? Do you wanna do you wanna believe that humans are that that that life is a miracle? This universe is a miracle. Our bodies are miracles, and we want to connect with God in this lifetime.
Speaker: Casey Means
19:14
We wanna build and respect these temples that are interconnected with the Earth to do that, or do we not? And, like, that’s the choice we have right now, and I think we have to take that very seriously. And I think a lot of the political stuff that’s happening, Sana, it’s all just reflection of people wanting to find a way to fight for life and not knowing how.
Speaker: Casey Means
19:34
But but on the biggest level, like, that’s what I think is kinda happening here.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
19:40
And wanting life to make more sense than than than just this constant state of fatigue and Yeah. Constantly dealing with diseases. I wanna talk about a couple specific things you said and questions ai, why are girls going through periods so much earlier?
Speaker: Casey Means
19:54
Well, if you ask The New York Times, they’ll write a headline that sai, girls are going through puberty way way earlier, and no one has has any idea why. And, of course, that’s because there’s not a double blind, placebo controlled, peer reviewed, you know, RCT in a in a journal that can exactly pinpoint the one reason why it’s happening.
Speaker: Casey Means
20:15
But, again, if we put the dots together, which, of course, I’m gonna be called, like, not evidence based for saying that, what’s happening in our environment right now? So what drives early puberty is excess estrogens. Right? We’re, like, we’re we’re pushing estrogens to basically, you know, spark that whole process of puberty. Well, look at our world.
Speaker: Casey Means
20:34
Where are these x why would we be having extra estrogens? Well, let’s look at our environment, the plastics. So we’ve got plastics, as you know, everywhere. I love you were talking about this, I think, with Brigham. Like, you’ve got the the metal cups, and I love it.
Speaker: Casey Means
20:48
But, like, there have been 8 1000000000 metric tons of plastic produced on planet Earth since about ai with when plastic was commercialized. And the interesting thing about plastic is that when it breaks down, it acts like a xenoestrogen, an exogenous estrogen molecule that can literally bind to our estrogen receptors and act like estrogens.
Speaker: Casey Means
21:08
So now we’ve got, you know, we’ve got you know this. Like, we’ve got plastic effing everywhere. It’s literally in the air we’re breathing, the nanoparticles. It’s in our food. It’s in our water. It’s in everything. And we’ve now found plastics in every human bryden. So, of course, that’s affecting our bodies and our young girls’ bodies.
Speaker: Casey Means
21:25
It’s actually affecting our bodies in utero. There was sai recent study that was done that showed 100% of placentas that were dissected had microplastics in them. So that’s 1. Number 2, look at the pesticides. So there are pesticides actually where their molecular activity is to increase aromatase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen.
Speaker: Casey Means
21:48
So atrazine, which is banned in Europe, but we spray £70,000,000 of it per year in the US, increases aromatase, which converts testosterone to estrogen. Illegal overseas. And it is we buy it from other countries. So China and Germany and other countries are selling us a chemical of which £70,000,000 are sprayed on our food, invisible and tasteless, which upregulates aromatase and converts testosterone to estrogen.
Speaker: Casey Means
22:16
So that’s number 2. And then you look at just the fat that we have on our bodies. So fat and, especially, visceral fat, the metabolically active fat around our midline, that is a metabolically active organ that actually converts testosterone to estrogen. So that that’s so we are living in this, like, wildly estrogenic environment that is created by humans, and it’s all invisible.
Speaker: Casey Means
22:41
And and, you know, again, it’s ai, how would you even do the study, right, to show that? Right. And meh, it’s if you put the pieces together, it’s very clear. Now go into later life and talking about estrogens. We’ve got a huge percentage meh American women on birth control pills.
Speaker: Casey Means
22:57
That’s, of course, post hopefully, post puberty, but we’re we’re putting women on exogenous estrogens for acne, for PCOS, for menstrual regularity, sometimes, of course, for actual birth control, but it’s, like, it’s it’s very ubiquitous now in the environment. And and it’s ai when you kinda know this stuff, you’re like, how are we allowing this to happen? And then, of course, it’s affecting boys too. Right? You know?
Speaker: Casey Means
23:23
And so I kinda just think about this world we’re living in where it’s tons of estrogens. It’s not like there’s a bunch of exogenous testosterones. Right? It’s not like the plastics are also stimulating testosterone. So you’ve got these estrogens, then we’re barreled with sugar, and it’s literally like it’s in our kids’ school lunches, there’s sugar everywhere.
Speaker: Casey Means
23:40
Sugar is driving the visceral fat in kids, which is turning estrogen to testosterone. So it’s ai we live in a world that’s basically feminizing us, which, for women, that’s gonna make puberty early. For men, it’s gonna feminize them, You know? And then we also have an entire food system that’s driving visceral fat to make us more more estrogen sort of rich. And what is this doing?
Speaker: Casey Means
24:00
I think in a lot of ways, it’s it’s it’s depleting American vigor. Right? Like, we’re living in this estrogen stew that’s hard to get away from.
Speaker: Calley Means
24:09
This is where Ai think my experience ties is that on the foundational level why this is happening, it’s because these studies are all funded by the chemical companies, by the food companies. Like like, we’ve almost been, I think, misled by the experts when it comes to chronic conditions and when it comes to nutrition to take leave of our common sense.
Speaker: Calley Means
24:26
Like, do we need to wait for a double ai, placebo controlled, human randomized controlled, study to know, whether ai% of our brains being plastic is a good thing right now.
Speaker: Casey Means
24:37
It’s the reason data
Speaker: Calley Means
24:38
is showing. Do we need to have a human randomized controlled 10 year study to know whether an herbicide like glyphosate that’s being sprayed on almost all of our food and our children’s food that people have to wear hazmat suits to spray and kills every single organism ai? Do we need to wait for a study?
Speaker: Calley Means
24:55
Like like, we’ve been we’ve we’ve just as the medical system has siloed, we’ve siloed all these questions and just taken leave of our common sense. Ai, animals in the wild, wolves in the wild are not getting, like, chronic rates of obesity, diabetes, metabolic dysfunction. Like, we’re born with an innate sense of of knowing what’s good for us, of knowing that the sun is good, of knowing that, you know, steak is good, that broccoli is good.
Speaker: Calley Means
25:15
We can’t overeat those things. The problem is we’ve been lied to by the professors at Harvard, at Stanford, at Tufts Nutrition School that I believe are essentially, from my experience, PR for the food industry and the pharmaceutical industry that accepts all these things as a given.
Speaker: Calley Means
25:30
I mean, Tufts Nutrition School, 80% of their budget is from food companies. You know, by our estimate, 50% of Stanford Medical School’s budget comes somehow touches pharma. So just fundamentally, like, on the on the grassroots, like, micro level, these industries have co opted our institution of trust and meh us to beat this.
Speaker: Calley Means
25:49
And you ask why we’re the only people speaking out because because we’ve made it that evidence based medicine really accepts all this disease growing and happening, and 95% of medical spending right now is on disease once it’s happened. It’s on managing conditions. And there’s no higher levels of trust in our society than the NIH, than the FDA, than Harvard Med School, than Stanford Med School.
Speaker: Calley Means
26:13
So all of them are enforcing this. And then it’s really just interesting where their emphasis is. Like, I was just reading the other day that California, the medical board is checking the licenses of doctors, putting them under review if they write 5 vaccine exception notes.
Speaker: Calley Means
26:26
You literally are, like, on the verge of losing your license if you even go outside the orthodoxy on vaccines. But where is that level of emphasis? Where is that level of focus? Where is that level of rigor around meh health for kids, around nutrition for kids? Right?
Speaker: Calley Means
26:40
I think it is a big deal, like, of kids getting polio, but, like, 50% of teens are obese or overweight right now. Like, we have prediabetes skyrocketing. Like, the medical system knows how to focus on something. They know how to tell congress that there’s no cost too high for something.
Speaker: Calley Means
26:53
Like, when it comes to pharmaceutical interventions, we’re bankrupt, the country, with interventions once people get sick. Like like, I truly believe and this gets to, like, the solutions and how I actually think this is an optimistic story, people waking up, why it’s an existential kind of knife’s edge we’re on right now.
Speaker: Calley Means
27:07
We can change this really quick. It the quick. The issue is that interest that profit from us being in fear, that just fundamentally is a statement of economic fact, profit from us being sick, profit from us being depressed, profit from us being infertile, They have co opted our institutions of trust, and they’ve co opted the clinical guidelines.
Speaker: Calley Means
27:23
Like, literally, when I was a junior employee, I helped coke tyler money to the American, Diabetes Association. Okay? The American Diabetes Association says that if you have diabetes, you don’t need to worry about your sugar intake. They say it’s not tied to food. Right?
Speaker: Calley Means
27:38
The American Academy of Pediatrics right now is saying that if your child is overweight slightly overweight overweight, 12 years old, dietary infringements don’t wait. It says do not wait to see if dietary infringements work. Ozempic. It’s now being studied on 6 years old. The American Ai Association. Right?
Speaker: Calley Means
27:55
The psychiatrist did the standard of care. If your child is a little sad, SSRI, immediate intervention. Right? SSRI rates have doubled among high schoolers in the past 5 years. Right? If your child’s a little fidgety, the standard of care right? It’s not asking whether they’re in the ai. Not asking if they’re too sedentary.
Speaker: Calley Means
28:12
Not asking if they’re being forced fed, altered processed food, which would make any animal crazy if we subject them to what kids are subjected to. No discussion of that. It’s just not in the clinical guidelines. So these doctors, these good people like Casey, go into the medical system where Ai we’re we’re this magnet for smart people.
Speaker: Calley Means
28:27
We get them in for the right reasons. There’s easier ways to make money. But they come in, and they get saddled with one skill. They get saddled with a bunch of debt, and then they’re realizing this is a rigged system. Some people few people, unfortunately, had the courage ai Casey to drop out.
Speaker: Calley Means
28:41
I thought she was an idiot. I was like, what are you doing? I was you know, we were kinda brainwashed to do the traditional system. I couldn’t believe it. We didn’t talk for a year.
Speaker: Calley Means
28:48
But it just it just is hard for people to understand that you can walk away from this because because our society stamps these credentials on people. Like, what’s better than being the the dean of Stanford Med School? The dean of Stanford Med School right now was Casey’s same specialty, head and neck surgery.
Speaker: Calley Means
29:03
And the way you rise up in medicine is you do a specialty. You focus on, you know, a couple inches of the face. And then he focused on a fellowship on an even narrower part of the body. Like, that’s how you rise up. You’ve siloed the situation.
Speaker: Calley Means
29:14
Anything that’s not siloed is considered not scientific, is considered wack wacky. We they’ve called us the, what, the woo woo caucus, talking about these nutrition. The medical system enforces this siloed view where diabetes, heart disease, depression, kidney disease, cancer, they’re all separate things.
Speaker: Calley Means
29:31
If you have those conditions, you’re seeing 5 separate doctors, not they’re not speaking to each other. That’s very profitable, very problematic. So the solution is is is truly just having the clinical guidelines of how diseases are assessed and how they’re intervened, changed to following the science, which is these are metabolic conditions.
Speaker: Calley Means
29:51
90% of the US medical budget is tied to managing preventable and reversible lifestyle conditions. If we had people on Medicaid, instead of jamming with the statins, jamming them with, Ozempic, jamming them with SSRIs, you know, lower income people were going bankrupt from Medicaid, $1,300,000,000,000.
Speaker: Calley Means
30:09
It’s growing. It’s bigger part of the budget than defense budget. If we literally just ask how do we have that money to spur ai, to incentivize exercise, to incentivize healthier food for these folks, we’d be a transformed country. It’s it’s literally that simple, but it it takes that moral courage. It takes Americans actually saying, no. I am gonna go against the NIH. I am gonna ask questions.
Speaker: Calley Means
30:29
But we of course, we have violent just reading, you know, back I what? Was it 2022? Like, every single public health official in America said you were, like, the enemy number 1 for talking about sunlight and talking about food and talking about healthy eating. COVID was a metabolic condition. COVID was a foodborne illness.
Speaker: Calley Means
30:43
Like, if you were metabolically healthy, you did not die of COVID, like, pretty demonstrably, and you were threat number 1.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
30:50
Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah.
Speaker: Casey Means
30:51
Yeah. Ai. I think I think it Cali’s getting into something also that I I think is part of reason why I mean, there are a lot of fortunately, there are a lot of doctors speaking out right now, and I have so much, like, gratitude for all the other, not only doctors, but, like, NPs, DOs, chiropractors, like, nurse practitioners, all these amazing people who are speaking up and getting a lot of shit for it.
Speaker: Casey Means
31:10
But this is very ai, you know, and I think that when you think about and it’s hard. Like, this is a primal instinct to not break out of the pact and to not, go against what the the norm is. So I think in a lot of ways, what we’re dealing with, like, here is going to come down to, like, how courageous are we willing to be to move humanity back and and and ai humanity very much also the Earth’s health because they’re interconnected.
Speaker: Casey Means
31:35
They’re they’re 1 and the same. How courageous are we gonna be to stand up for that? Or are we gonna let things slip through our fingers? And I think the tribe when I was in medical school, like, it’s it’s amazing because of the interest and the fact that, you know, Stanford got a $3,000,000 grant from Pfizer while I was there to revamp the curriculum and the fact that the American Diabetes Association that makes clinical guidelines is getting 1,000,000 of dollars from Coke and Cadbury.
Speaker: Casey Means
32:01
And the American Diabetes Association is getting 1,000,000 of dollars from Mead Johnson that makes formula, and Abbott Nutrition that makes formula, and vaccine companies that make flu vaccines. Like, the fact that the money I mean, eight 1,000 major conflicts of interest were just reported at the NIH with food and pharma.
Speaker: Casey Means
32:16
So at every level, the, the medical guidelines that if you step out of, you are at risk for litigation as a doctor and the NIH, you know, oh, like, you know, this thing that we all respect, tons of conflicts of interest, and the medical schools accepting money, the tribe that then you become a part of as a trainee is a tribe that only hears one thing.
Speaker: Casey Means
32:39
And so I have a lot of compassion for doctors because I was I did go through medical school and not learn any of the things that I had to learn after to actually figure out how to help myself and others truly generate foundational cellular health to be healthy. Like, I it’s I just look back at what I’ve had to learn since medical school.
Speaker: Casey Means
32:59
You know, I learned about, basically, organ specific physiology, pharmacology, and then in residency, I learned how to do surgery. And then, of course, throughout the whole thing, I learned how to bill. But that that is ultimately those are not the tools that actually generate foundational cellular health.
Speaker: Casey Means
33:15
You know, 80% of medical schools in the United States don’t require a single nutrition course, not one minute of nutrition. And yet, ai% of our health care costs are tied to diseases. The things that are torturing American lives are tied to food and doctors. It’s it’s not a hammer in our toolbox.
Speaker: Casey Means
33:28
I didn’t learn, you know, I didn’t learn at Stanford Meh School that 95% of the people on the USDA Food Ai meh America committee had a conflict of interest with the food with the food industry. I didn’t learn that there were 8,000 conflicts of interest at the NIH. I didn’t learn that there are 8 1,000,000,000 tons of plastic on planet Earth that are degrading into ender estrogen, you know, analogs.
Speaker: Casey Means
33:50
I did not learn that there’s £6,000,000,000 of pesticides sprayed on our global food supply every single year, most from China and Germany, and that these are literally tied very strongly to Alzheimer’s, dementia, cancer, obesity, mitochondrial dysfunction, infertility, ADHD, liver dysfunction.
Speaker: Casey Means
34:10
I didn’t learn that, you know, simply taking 7,000 steps per day can slash your risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, Alzheimer’s, dementia, even gastric reflux by 40 to 60%, and the average Meh walking 35 ai steps per day. Like, we’re literally just not moving as a country. And if you just walk a little bit, 7,000 steps, which takes, like, 45 minutes, you slash your risk of every major, you know, chronic disease.
Speaker: Casey Means
34:35
I didn’t learn that we need to be getting sunlight because circadian biology dictates our cellular health. Like, we are diurnal animals that have biologic processes that happen during the day and other biologic processes that happen at night. And the way your body knows whether it’s day or night is if you get photons hitting your retina and your skin cells. Pretty basic. Pretty foundational for human health.
Speaker: Casey Means
35:00
Didn’t learn anything about it. Didn’t learn anything about ai. Didn’t learn anything about photons. Didn’t learn anything about sleep. You know, we’re sleeping 20% less on average than we were a 100 years ago. And sleep is a huge risk factor.
Speaker: Casey Means
35:12
You you can, in an experimental setting, take a young healthy person and subject them to sleep deprivation for 5 nights and they become pre diabetic. Well, 50% Meh are pre diabetic and type 2 diabetic, and we’re not sleeping well. And I didn’t learn not one minute on sleep.
Speaker: Casey Means
35:25
So all the things and so many more, and, of course, nothing about nutrition. You know, and Marty Makari talks about this. Like, I certainly didn’t learn that medical error and medication is the 3rd leading cause of death in United States. I learned that patient comes in, and I need to label their diagnosis and give them a pill.
Speaker: Casey Means
35:45
So it’s when I when I speak of the tribalism, it’s like I have so much compassion for doctors who feel stuck right now. They’re stuck in a broken system. The tribe that they’re a part of has taught them a certain set of things. There are huge 1,000,000,000,000 of dollars of interest to make the things that they learn a specific myopic lens.
Speaker: Casey Means
36:06
And putting together dots is risky because if you step outside the guidelines, you’re at risk for intense litigation and potential re ridicule. I mean, I’m called pseudoscientific alt right, you know, woo woo caucus all the ai, and and so that’s scary. And I think that that, fundamentally, this is again why it comes down to, like, this is actually more of a consciousness and spiritual issue because it’s, like, we need to pray for courage.
Speaker: Casey Means
36:33
We need to sit down every morning and decide what we want for the future. What do we want? We’re all players. We’re all important. We all need to use our voices. Being complicit, like, what future do we want and what are we willing to do for it? And get our priorities straight.
Speaker: Casey Means
36:50
Is our priority like our house and our mortgage and our boat and our comfortable life that’s killing us, or is it to elevate, to be stewards of the future and of the planet and to make some harder choices? And I think one thing I would just say if there are doctors listening, I am probably preaching to the choir here, but, like, this tribe on the other side, you know, that I think we’re all in of, like, promoting health, like, it’s beautiful, and people are really healthy and happy.
Speaker: Casey Means
37:19
And it’s not that hard, and it’s not that expensive. And everyone is welcome here in this tribe of trying to move humanity towards more harmonious, you know, future. And and everyone is welcome. It’s bipartisan. It’s really about, like like, Brigham was saying, like, this is about team humanity, and team humanity always ai extension will be team planet because they’re interconnected.
Speaker: Casey Means
37:42
And so I think we need to break out of that that sort of, like, more our past, you know, human selves of tribalism and really realize, like, we need to be brave, we need to be courageous, we need to fight for life, and, and it’s pretty pretty bright and wonderful when we start doing that.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
38:00
I don’t think most people were aware of the problems in regards to the food system, in regards to pesticides, and in in regards to, like, how people, you know, in regards to, like, how people learn nutrition in medical school, I don’t think they were really aware of that until about 5 or 6 years ago. I think it started to creep into the zeitgeist.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
38:19
I think before that, people just put all their faith in doctors, and then I think COVID happened and people lost a lot of faith in the medical system. They lost a lot of faith in the NIH. They they saw all the contradictory videos of Fauci saying, you know, you’re not gonna catch COVID and Rachel Maddow and all that shit. And you’re ai, oh meh god.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
38:38
This is all a bought and paid for system to promote profit. And
Speaker: Calley Means
38:43
Yeah. I think I think, Jamal talked a little bit about this, but I think it’s so important because nobody realizes this, is I think a lot of people listening to us years ago is just, like, this sounds conspiratorial. And it’s just, like, what actually happened? And there’s a couple, like, really important dates that happened that are historical that I think, like, set this structure really intentionally.
Speaker: Calley Means
39:03
The first was 19 09, the Flexner report. Sai, literally, John d Rockefeller’s personal lawyer wrote the report for congress that basically set the standard that’s the standard today for medical education. And it literally says in the binding guidelines that holistic and holistic health and nutrition and anything about interconnections to the body is pseudoscience.
Speaker: Calley Means
39:22
It says we need to name the condition and cut it out or prescribe it.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
39:25
And what year is this? 19 09. So they’re they’re still going by the recommendations of 19 09.
Speaker: Casey Means
39:32
We still follow the
Speaker: Calley Means
39:33
Flexner report. Some a policy I mean, and it That is so great. Policies, but but, like, resending the Flexner report and having updated scientific education and standard of care guidelines based on what we’ve learned since 19 09 about the majesty of the interconnectedness of our body is a really good first start because we’re binded under a law.
Speaker: Calley Means
39:53
Just just demonstrably, just ai, again, not conspiratorial. John d Rockefeller’s personal lawyer wrote this report. Why? Because John d Rockefeller is the father of the pharmaceutical industry and created pharmaceuticals from byproducts of oil production, and pharmaceutical industry and created pharmaceuticals from byproducts of oil production and was the 1st investor into Johns Hopkins and other major medical schools, University of Chicago, and started the modern education program for health.
Speaker: Calley Means
40:15
There were some big issues in the health. This is the Ai West, but he created Johns Hopkins and the standard of residency training as a way to silo diseases very intentionally and then prescribe his products and interventions as the top pharmaceutical maker. And the medical schools that he created were basically a distribution system to him. Okay. So you get to World War 2.
Speaker: Calley Means
40:38
Up until World War 2, around that time, the 19 fifties, 19 sixties, I would argue almost any medical miracle you can think of or any listener can think of was created before that time. You know, it’s all acute situations, emergency surgical procedures, sanitation procedures, antibiotics to make an infection not deadly.
Speaker: Calley Means
40:57
Almost every medical miracle we can think of was something that was gonna kill you right away, infectious disease. And then and then and then it you take the pill or take the treatment for a finite period of time and you stop it, or do the surgery quickly and you’re you’re cured.
Speaker: Calley Means
41:09
That those are medical miracles, and we had a lot of good things happen up until World War 2. Very intentionally, the medical industry saw the birth control pill in the late 19 fifties, 19 sixties. And the birth control pill was the first pill in world history that people took for longer than a couple weeks.
Speaker: Calley Means
41:26
It was the first pill ever that is, like, oh, interesting. You can actually convince someone to take a pill for years, for almost most of their ai. Recurring revenue. And there was a huge emphasis of the medical industry to take the trust engendered up until 1960. RFK talks about this. We didn’t spend money on chronic disease management.
Speaker: Calley Means
41:43
All medicine was acute issues. Chronic disease, you know, diabetes, obesity, that was outside the doctor’s office. They saw that you could medicalize chronic conditions. Today, ai 90 to 95 percent of spending is on chronic conditions. So we what do we do?
Speaker: Calley Means
41:57
We in the 19 seventies, literally, the Sackler family, they did you know, their their grandkids did and kids did the opioids. Their their, their forebears created Valium. And 30% of women in the United States in the 19 seventies were on Valium, Ai Magazine, Valium Nation, Mommy’s Little Helper. Yeah.
Speaker: Calley Means
42:14
So we started creating all these psychiatric conditions. We started medicalizing heart disease. We started medicalizing all these type 2 ai, started creating, academic research totally funded by the pharmaceutical industry saying that type 2 diabetes isn’t reversible, that it’s basically genetic, heart disease, all these things, and started pilling them started pilling them.
Speaker: Calley Means
42:33
Then what happened to food? Chronic disease wasn’t that big of a deal in the 19 seventies, 19, eighties. You you look at the graph you look at the graph of all chronic conditions, there’s just a sharp turn in the 19 eighties. It’s the literally to almost to the year of the surgeon general report, saying smoking wasn’t great.
Speaker: Calley Means
42:52
So the second that report came out, Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds were 2 of the largest companies in the world. It wasn’t like Microsoft and Google on the top companies list. It was like cigarette companies. You know, dopamine is a really good thing to sell, which which the tech companies do now. And they use their cash ai.
Speaker: Calley Means
43:08
And by 1990, the 3 largest meh and a deals in American history, in world history, were cigarette companies buying food companies. So you had Nabisco bought by RJ Reynolds. You had Kraft and US Food ai and you see those graphs of of of all the food companies owned by, like, a couple a couple companies?
Speaker: Calley Means
43:25
That was the cigarette companies, and they did 2 things very, very intentionally. They took over the institutions of trust to say ultra processed food was healthy, and then they took their scientists and rigged the food itself to make it more addictive. Not to kill kids, but to make it more addictive. So you had that literal food pyramid, which said ultra processed food is great, low fat, carbs, base the pyramid.
Speaker: Calley Means
43:46
That was constructed literally by the cigarette industry to promote their addictive products. And this weaponization of food, as I call it, it’s not just like this conspiracy. Literally, the cigarette industry, those 2 companies, Philip Morris and Arthur, were the 2 largest food producers in the United States.
Speaker: Calley Means
44:04
Like, 50% of American food were created by cigarette companies in 19 nineties. And they have got us addicted and weaponized this food, and all chronic conditions have just shot up. It’s because that ultra processed foods, literally, by tobacco industry scientists, hijacks our evolutionary biology.
Speaker: Calley Means
44:20
Again, you can’t overeat grass fed steak, but these food with scientists meh smarter than any of us, that’s what they’re doing. They’re they’re they’re shutting off our society signals. The byproduct of this cheap addictive food, which we don’t even have research for yet, is that it’s sprayed with all these chemicals.
Speaker: Calley Means
44:36
It’s sprayed with 10,000 chemicals that are allowed in the United States when only 400 are allowed in Europe. All these chemicals to make the food addictive, to make the food cheap, you know, to do the monocropping. And that food is absolutely and we don’t need to wait for the research on this.
Speaker: Calley Means
44:49
These chemicals, these neurotoxins are are destroying ourselves, destroying our microbiome in ways we don’t fully understand. So I just wanna make clear to everyone, like, this has happened, like, very intentionally. Like like and it can be undone pretty quickly too. But we have to realize this isn’t a conspiracy. It’s true corruption, that, that that that happened deliberately.
Speaker: Casey Means
45:09
I would just add a few more, like, dates. I like, you know, I think one thing about the research, you know, we’re one of the only countries in the world where the burden of proof for harm, like, we we allow these chemicals to just enter our food system. We have 10,000 chemicals in our food system. Europe, only 400 because they have to show that it’s safe before they use it.
Speaker: Casey Means
45:29
We’re allowed to use it and then and then, you know, only if there’s issues that crop up do people have to do research. So, you know, there’s this, like, ridiculous g Ram, generally ai as safe designation, which is essentially a company self assesses whether the chemical that they are creating is generally recognized as safe.
Speaker: Casey Means
45:50
No one’s overseeing it. And Brigham talks about this, like, compassion for the FDA. They’re overwhelmed. There’s a lot of stuff to do. It’s kind of like a hoarder’s house.
Speaker: Casey Means
45:57
Where do we even start? Like, I don’t necessarily know if I buy that. I think that it’s pretty pretty bad and bought off that we have all these chemicals. But they basically just have to self designate if it’s generally recognized as safe and then it can go into our food system.
Speaker: Casey Means
46:08
One thing that I find really interesting is, like, that I really reflect on a lot is, like, what is the difference between a food chemical and a drug? They’re all just synthetic molecules that are made in factories, in in labs by scientists. Do you know what the difference is? Intended use.
Speaker: Casey Means
46:24
So, basically, if the intended use is for food, you can synthesize almost anything you want and put it in food. We are being mass drugged and poisoned in our food system with 10,000 virtually unregulated chemicals, which have bought off papers saying that they are safe. I mean, you look at what happened with all the Monsanto litigation about non Hodgkin’s lymphoma. They had to release this whole thing called the Monsanto papers.
Speaker: Casey Means
46:49
They were declassified ai they ghost writ ai they ghostwrote scientific papers saying that glyphosate is safe. So there’s all this corruption in there where, basically, we have 10,000 unregulated chemicals on our food system and we’re getting sick as hell, obviously. And then you’ve got the evidence based people saying, well, we need to have a 10 year longitudinal study to show that glyphosate is causing x ai z disease.
Speaker: Casey Means
47:12
And it’s, like, obviously, that’s not the right approach because, first of all, it is the synergistic combination of all the toxins that are now in our environment that are leading to all these pleiotropic health issues. That’s very hard to study, so we have to get our heads out of our ass and use our common sense and realize what’s going on and and and not wait 10 years with these, you know, NIH funded studies that are going to be corrupted.
Speaker: Casey Means
47:40
And, you know, I think so that’s just that’s just one thing about the food chemicals. I I just wanted to add to your point, Cal, like, some other dates. Like, you look at the the processed food emergence. Processed food, like, really didn’t start taking off until these mergers.
Speaker: Casey Means
47:54
Like, it’s there was a little bit of start of it. Ultra processed foods did not exist before World War 2. We and, you know, we needed to have shelf stable food for soldiers and things like that that we could shah, and so there were maybe some good intentions there. But then it got there was an opportunity there that got seen.
Speaker: Casey Means
48:11
And we can also, you know, weaponize the feminist movement against, you know, oh, being in the kitchen, you’re a slave. You know, you you don’t that your value’s outside the home and you climb the corporate ladder. Here, have this convenience food that we basically made for soldiers, and we’re gonna tell you that this is actually your liberation. Sai, of course, we got people not cooking.
Speaker: Casey Means
48:29
Families aren’t families aren’t eating together anymore. Like, you know, kids are eating 67% of children’s calories now are ultra processed foods. These means foods that come from a factory made by food scientists. Not just processed, ultra processed, the the highest form of processing, 67% of calories.
Speaker: Casey Means
48:49
Then you go to the 19 seventies and you we have the advent of high fructose corn syrup, which as Saloni talks about, this preceded some of the mergers. But high fructose corn syrup is a weapon weapon of mass destruction that, basically, food scientists use in understanding about hibernating animals ai bears who fructose is one of the only types of calories where instead of making you feel satiated, it makes you more hungry.
Speaker: Casey Means
49:14
And this is evolutionarily, and we knew this. In the fall, when animals are preparing for hibernation and they start eating fructose rich berries, they need to put on a ton of fat for winter. And sai there’s a feed forward mechanism with fructose where it actually gets the bears to be hungry and even violent to outcompete other animals to get as many berries as possible in a short period of time to lay 3 d print fat for winter.
Speaker: Casey Means
49:40
So you so you have the scientists understand this and say, hey, we can make liquid fructose 1000 times more potent than the fructose you’d find in berries. Sai molecule, but in higher concentration, and we can add it to everything. We can add it to saloni dressing. We’re gonna add it to ketchup.
Speaker: Casey Means
49:54
We’re gonna add it to children’s school lunches. We’re gonna add it, obviously, to sodas, and we’re gonna make people insatiable. We’re make gonna make their bodies and their brains think that they’re preparing for winter that’s never coming. And that and there has been research that shows that hydras corn syrup is associated with violence, ADHD, and kids, all of these different things.
Speaker: Casey Means
50:13
Just last thing I’ll mention, flash forward 1986, I think another very important date, which is the date when the litigation went through that said we couldn’t sue vaccine manufacturers. And, the vaccine safety act, that’s a very important date in the whole history because it is the fur one of the first times where we were able to pass legislation to congress that said that pharmaceutical companies could not be sued for wrongdoing, and that still is present today.
Speaker: Casey Means
50:35
They basically put together a little paltry little fund that people could apply to get, you know, no fault reimbursements for for for vaccine harm, but you cannot sue the company. So you start to get companies being legally immune from wrongdoing, which has then accelerated. And they’re now starting to try and push things like that for pesticides as well.
Speaker: Casey Means
50:54
So that’s just some of the history of, like, why we’re why we are where we are today. It’s not rocket science. This has all been very institutionalized and structured, and it’s the last 50 years. Like, we can undo all of this with leadership. And so that’s just a little bit of the picture of of how we’re we are where we are today.
Speaker: Calley Means
51:12
Before can I just
Speaker: Joe Rogan
51:13
say one thing about the fructose corn syrup? I’m I’m so glad you brought that up because I didn’t know that there was a unique way that it makes it more addictive and and kills your satiety
Speaker: Casey Means
51:21
Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
51:22
Or increases it or or or or kills it rather. Because I’d always thought that sugar was sugar. And this is one of the arguments that a lot of people that are pooh pooh ing all this stuff, like, oh, this is nonsense. Sugar is sugar. Yeah. Like, there’s no difference between the sugar and high fructose corn syrup versus the sugar in an apple.
Speaker: Casey Means
51:38
No. It’s it’s really interesting. There’s 2 amazing books on this. Richard Johnson from University of Colorado wrote Nature Wants Us to be Fat, and then David Perlmutter wrote, Drop Acid. Both books are about a molecule called uric acid, which is unique to fructose metabolism.
Speaker: Casey Means
51:55
So when fructose is metabolized in the body, not like glucose, it creates Uric acid, which creates oxidative stress and mitochondrial dysfunction in the brain and the body that if you have mitochondrial dysfunction, you’re not gonna able to process sugars to energy. You know, mitochondria powerhouse the cell. So you break the mitochondria with the excess fructose overloading the mitochondria with uric acid, And then what happens?
Speaker: Casey Means
52:18
You can’t turn sugars to energy. So what do you do? You turn sugars to fat. So you start 3 d printing you start 3 d printing fat because you break the mitochondria with excess fructose. And on top of that, the mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative stress, when happening in the brain is what may inspire the violence and the ADHD and all that stuff to make the bears manic so they get as much berries as possible.
Speaker: Casey Means
52:38
This is what’s happening in every kid in every classroom in America now. And so that’s kind of some of the biology very simply about about what’s happening with fructose.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
52:48
So the the apple is probably a bad example, but, like, cane sugar. Is cane sugar fructose based?
Speaker: Casey Means
52:54
Well, it’s generally, is gonna have sucrose, which is gonna have some amount of glucose and fructose. But this is the thing about fruit is that we have 40 trillion cells, and we have the ability to clear uric acid, and we have the ability to process fructose in a physiologic amount.
Speaker: Casey Means
53:11
We’re never gonna have the uric acid increasing and overloading the mitochondria if we’re eating an apple. It’s when you’re eating 20, 30 times the fructose that an apple has and you’re literally pouring it down vatsal of a bryden, imagine you just get this huge rise in uric acid in the body and other things that are happening.
Speaker: Casey Means
53:30
And, and that’s when it overwhelms. So it’s it’s it’s a bit of that dose makes the poison because our body has the ability to excrete toxins. Our body has the ability to deal with some heavy metals. Our body has the ability to probably clear some level of glyphosate. But we can’t clear all of it all the ai, 24 hours a day, in a 100 times the quantity of all these things together.
Speaker: Casey Means
53:52
And the the research and the evidence based thing and this cult of the science, they love to ignore that. The idea of synergistic effects of this of this overwhelming breaking of our cellular’s cellular resources is just conveniently forgotten because we study things in isolation.
Speaker: Casey Means
54:10
That’s literally the definition of how a double blind placebo controlled study happens. It’s one variable, you know, and one thing that you’re testing
Speaker: Calley Means
54:19
You can’t do it on foot.
Speaker: Casey Means
54:20
Sense. We live in a toxic stew.
Speaker: Calley Means
54:23
The only only answer of double blind placebo controlled studies, which every guest comes on is just, like, that’s just the gold standard. That’s just everyone just accepts that that’s what you need. A double blind placebo controlled study, the only answer is a pill, like, essentially.
Speaker: Calley Means
54:35
You can’t test psychedelics on that way. You can’t test food. You can’t test exercise. You can’t blind those things. Sai anything that actually recognizes the the the unison and the interconnectivity of why we’re getting sick, can’t be studied through a double blind placebo controlled study.
Speaker: Calley Means
54:52
You actually have the FDA that’s basically created. You saw this with the recent, MDMA decision. It’s basically rigged that the only thing that can be approved through the, you know, top way we study things and and and and approve drugs is a synthetic pill. That that’s the only thing that it can basically lead to through a double blind placebo controlled study.
Speaker: Casey Means
55:10
It’s like with vaccines. It’s like, yeah. I bet that one vaccine probably isn’t causing autism. But what about the the the twenty that they’re getting before 18 months? Like, we don’t look at it in Synergistic. You know? And so that’s that’s a big problem and this is where the cult of the science and I say the science specifically because science is beautiful.
Speaker: Casey Means
55:29
Using the scientific method and using that way of inquiry into the natural world is a beautiful arya. But weaponizing papers that are often bought for, or corrupted and, you know, they the leaders of some of our key medical journals have actually even said that 50% of scientific research that publish ends up being wrong.
Speaker: Casey Means
55:51
So it’s bought for, corrupted, or wrong. We we rely on this. And if one interesting trend that we’re seeing in our world is that if we do choose to put dots together or use our intuition, our god given intuition, anything other than this particular way of examining things, you are dangerous.
Speaker: Casey Means
56:14
You are dangerous. And I think that that’s something we need to really question. You know? I think, especially as a woman, like and I’m thinking about having kids soon. I’m, like, thinking about, like, wow.
Speaker: Casey Means
56:24
Like, I I have the ability in my body to, like, build a human, 3 d print a human, pull in a soul to that human. Ai don’t need a peer reviewed study or a textbook to tell me how to do that. Our body and our our intuition and our minds and the the subtle things happening inside us are important. They are incredible.
Speaker: Casey Means
56:45
We have now been told that, like, you can’t trust it and you are dangerous if you do that. And I think that’s one of the reasons why I think parents are very frustrated right now is because parenting I’m not a parent yet, but, you know, Callie is. But, like, you know, when we’re being told now that parents are the enemy for using their own judgment about their families and kids, like, I think that’s probably it’s it’s deeply frustrating to people, and, that’s basically what we’re being asked to do.
Speaker: Casey Means
57:10
So yeah.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
57:12
I sana talk about Alzheimer’s. That was the other thing I wanna talk about when you when we talked about early puberty. You you mentioned escalating risks of Alzheimer’s. When did Alzheimer’s become a thing? Because I was reading this article that was saying that it was before the advent of seed oils.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
57:30
You very, very, very rarely saw it, if at all.
Speaker: Calley Means
57:33
No. It’s been exploding like every single other chronic condition. I’ll just quickly go to and ai to Casey’s point she just made. This year in 2024 is the highest rate in American history of Alzheimer’s, cancer, autoimmune conditions, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, kidney disease, autism.
Speaker: Calley Means
57:51
Every single chronic disease you can think of is at an all time high growing at an increasing rate as we spend more money to treat those conditions. So I think what one point we’re trying to make is that, you know, all of the NIH, all the FDA, it’s all on accepting that trend as a given.
Speaker: Calley Means
58:09
It’s totally washed their hands of it. And how do we find marginal pills to make this a little bit better? Not asking why. And that question about Alzheimer’s, the point we’re trying to make is that when it comes to chronic conditions, which Alzheimer’s is, you have to really not ask the Alzheimer’s question.
Speaker: Calley Means
58:24
You have to ask why that’s one branch on this tree, obesity. Right? This tree. And we talk about it, and I think Casey has this amazing framework. You can literally look at 5 biomarkers, the biomarkers of of metabolic dysfunction, HDL, triglycerides, blood sugar, blood pressure, and your waistline. And I’m not joking. I’m not being hyperbolic.
Speaker: Calley Means
58:43
If we fired every single researcher and every sing and and and canceled every single grant in the US government for all chronic disease research and all nutrition research and created all policy to maximize those 5 biomarkers in America, you, by definition, don’t have type 2 diabetes.
Speaker: Calley Means
58:59
You almost have a 0% chance of getting heart disease. You have very close to 0% chance of getting Alzheimer’s. You are not obese by definition. Literally, you go down every single chronic condition that is torturing American life. If you’re diabetic, you’re 4 times more likely to be depressed or suicidal because there are cells in our head, and diabetes is cellular dysregulation.
Speaker: Calley Means
59:19
So so, like, literally, I’m not like like, on the on the research and the science thing, you know, I think there’s great heroes who’ve been, you know, getting into the weeds on the on the research, but chronic disease is interconnected to basic lifestyle factors. I think this is a political issue, honestly.
Speaker: Calley Means
59:36
Every American needs to ask, is this an incremental issue where we need slightly better pharmaceutical interventions and slightly better research, or is this a radical shift of understanding how our bodies inter interconnected and understanding that that it needs to be a shift in medicine sana, frankly, how we view the environment?
Speaker: Calley Means
59:51
Like, that is a question that we actually think is relatively urgent and relatively existential. Modern society is amazing, but as Casey said, this is dark right now. Like, if you believe what Casey’s saying about these statistics about chronic disease and you actually look at the math that we’re growing 2 times with health care spinning the rate of GDP, it’s the largest and fastest growing industry in the country.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:00:12
The law the fastest growing industry in the United States is not AI. It’s not tech. It’s health care. And as it grows, we get sicker, fatter, more depressed, more infertile. It is going to bankrupt the country, and it’s not slowing down.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:00:23
So if you actually believe this, believe we need a new paradigm, is it about getting better research, or is it about actually saying the research is wrong, this whole paradigm of seeing chronic disease in silos is wrong? So I’m sure
Speaker: Casey Means
01:00:34
you can talk more
Speaker: Calley Means
01:00:34
about Alzheimer’s, but but it’s it’s interconnected.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:00:36
Yeah. No. I think the point about incrementalism versus radical is the question we need to be asking ourselves. Like, we’re not yeah. And so in terms of Alzheimer’s so I think something a really interesting framing is that the brain, you know, it’s only 2% of our body weight, but it uses 20% of our body’s energy.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:00:52
And there’s been this theory with Alzheimer’s of, like, oh, it’s the plaques in the brain. It’s the tau and the tangles and the beta amyloid and all these things. And so we thought, okay. Well, if we can get rid of those with a drug, like, maybe that’ll it’ll improve. But no Alzheimer’s drugs really work meaningfully.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:01:09
And more recently, there’s this in this understanding of, like, okay, metabolic dysfunction is definitely going up. We know metabolic syndrome and diabetes are going up, and the brain uses 20% of the body’s energy. And something that’s happening in the body ai diabetes is also happening in the brain.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:01:24
There’s been this interest Chris Palmer talks about this in such an amazing way in his book Bryden Energy. But, like, we’ve somehow decided to separate the brain from the body as if they’re different things when, in fact, they’re all just made of cells. They’re all just made of cells that do the same things. They need to do metabolism to keep the cell working.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:01:40
So we’ve got this organ that uses 20% of our energy and we’ve got 50% of Americans with prediabetes or type 2 diabetes, which is fundamentally a metabolic issue. And, of course, the brain’s basically underpowered. It’s not giving the energy it needs and that’s gonna express itself as dementia.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:01:54
So it’s been increasing in parallel with everything that’s happening with our increasing diabetes rates. And then the early onset dementia and Alzheimer’s disease, that has tripled since 2013. So younger people and that makes sense, though. We’ve got 30% of teens now with prediabetes. That was, like, 0% in the past.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:02:14
You didn’t have kids with the adult onset diabetes in the past. And so you’ve got now 30% of teens with prediabetes. You’ve got you’ve got middle aged people now, 50% with prediabetes or type 2 diabetes. Of course, that’s also creating an energetic deficit. So this neurometabolic, neuroenergetic theory of Alzheimer’s, maybe with these cells crying out for help help, maybe some of these plaques that we’re seeing are actually a protective meh.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:02:41
The brain actually laying down almost ai protective shielding. It’s a response to an underlying metabolic issue as opposed to the problem itself. But, of course, in our ai, we’re, like, we just gotta get rid of that symptom of the problem. When, in fact, actually, if we could unencumber the brain to be able to make energy properly, make good energy properly, that’s why our book is called Good Energy, they would actually be able to energize to heal to heal itself and to have the power to do its work, which is cognitive thinking.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:03:10
Is this Ai. I was
Speaker: Casey Means
01:03:11
gonna say that that an amazing book about Alzheimer’s that just hasn’t gotten as much attention as I think it should as Dale Bredesen’s book, The End of Alzheimer’s, because he talks about when you really look at the research, there are about 36 different biomarkers and factors. I think he calls them, like, the 36 holes in the roof of what creates like, if it’s raining and you plug one hole, your house is still gonna be filled with water.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:03:34
You have to plug all 36 holes to prevent or reverse Alzheimer’s disease. And, of course, all of these are related in some way to metabolic health. But it’s things like your vitamin d levels, your insulin levels, the amount of, you know, movement you’re getting, vitamin d, insulin, b twelve, other things like that, these these things that we know are part and parcel with metabolic health.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:03:55
So and there was an amazing Lancet paper from a couple years ago that showed that if we just got on top of some of the basic modifiable factors of our metabolic health, we could slash Alzheimer’s rates from happening. So, you know, I think, yeah, fundamentally, it’s one more branch on the tree that is rooted in this metabolic dysfunction in our body, which is fundamentally rooted in three processes that uniquely really hurt the brain, which is oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction, and chronic inflammation.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:04:23
These are the three hallmarks of metabolic dysfunction. And the brain is so sensitive and such a complex ai processing power organ that these core cellular disturbances that make up metabolic dysfunction, which are caused by our our environment, and cannot really be addressed with drugs, mitochondrial dysfunction, oxy, stress, chronic inflammation, they’re showing up so prominently in the brain.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:04:47
I’ll just say, like, there’s kind of just a question with all we’re hearing about these diseases. It’s ai, is the reason Alzheimer’s is skyrocketing because we don’t have enough research and don’t have enough drugs? Is the reason obesity rates are skyrocketing on kids because we don’t have enough drugs or not enough research? That’s the argument that’s being given to us.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:05:03
We’re literally being tyler, right, after the lessons of COVID, which the COVID lockdowns and what the pharmaceutical industry did with their cooption of our government with COVID was the most significant public policy mistake in American history, at least since World War 2.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:05:16
In modern times, I think we can all agree on, we are still saying and it’s just people, I think, because we trust the medical system still so much, we are literally thinking societally that that the fact that there’s an obesity crisis among 6 year olds is a drug deficiency issue.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:05:33
Like like like, it’s it’s a dark, I think, blind spot, in our culture right now.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:05:39
The reason why I brought up, Alzheimer’s there’s a couple of reasons. 1, the amyloid plaque research, wasn’t that proven to be flawed, like, deeply and maybe even corrupt? And then there was another, there’s something that came out very recently. See if you could find this, Jamie. I think, Jay Bhattacharya might have tweeted it.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:05:58
You’re ai with Max Lucavert?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:06:00
Yes.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:06:00
Yeah. Yeah. Ram, Max Lucavert. Yeah. He he
Speaker: Calley Means
01:06:02
tweeted it. Doctor. James is great.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:06:03
Yeah. Yeah. So that there was, like, rampant corruption.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:06:08
Oh, yeah. And this is coming out every every day. We’re hearing about a new premier researcher who’s published, you know, hundreds of papers in their field who, like, literally are you know, western blots are one of these things you see in scientific papers, like, that basically show you protein levels, like, copied and pasted western blots in, like, papers across their career, like, just made up data that then has served as foundational dogma for future research.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:06:35
So you think about the ripple effect
Speaker: Calley Means
01:06:37
That’s our eyes too.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:06:38
Yeah. Yeah. There’s a big one. And so this but this is it really gets back to the the core problem that’s above all the problems, which is an incentive problem. Like, it’s a simple economic incentive problem that’s basically causing all these problems. And I think it’s that what we’re striving for in this country is ultimately economic growth and and value. That’s, like, that’s what our that is what we care about.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:07:07
And so, you know, in each industry, you see people fighting for that, including at the NIH, including researchers. We’re all motivated by this carrot that is destroying us. And, yeah, it’s it’s it’s very, very dark because yeah.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:07:22
Jamie, see if we can find that Max Lucavert.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:07:25
Twitter wasn’t working. It’s not
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:07:26
not Twitter’s off. Twitter’s off. The Russians. It’s gone now. Here you go. Max Lugavere posted it on Instagram as well.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:07:33
Yeah. Max Lugavere posted it on Instagram
Speaker: Calley Means
01:07:33
as well. Yeah. Max’s in hand.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:07:34
Over a 100 and Ai sorry. Over a 100 NIH funded Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s research papers contain completely made up data allegations, billions in funding, and years of research now in serious doubt. Yeah. So so the so with dot with Max, actually,
Speaker: Casey Means
01:07:47
with doctor
Speaker: Calley Means
01:07:48
Jay Baesharia, with Marty Makary, Chris Palmer, a number of of voices. We’re engaging members of congress. We’re talking, you know, to helping whatever we can with RFK and Trump’s leadership on this. But I had a I had a somewhat out of body experience that kinda hits on on what you’re getting at.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:08:09
I was sitting across from the the member of congress, and I think it’s the exact same issue on obesity, who introduced this, treat and reduce obesity act, has a 150 cosponsors, and it’s to jam government funded Ozempic. So it starts with Medicare. 80% of people on Medicare, old people are obese or overweight.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:08:31
So the second this bill is signed, you have open season on all people on Meh. And And then the second something’s approved for Medicare always goes to Medicaid for lower income people, because why would a old person be eligible for something but not a poor person in the United Ai?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:08:44
So that immediately goes to Medicaid. That’s the game. And then Meh, right, it’s 6 years 6 years old. It’s now being pushed for on 6 year olds. So the second this bill is signed, $1600 per patient tyler month taxpayer money, which is why Novo Nordics is the 9th most valuable company in the world right now.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:09:02
This Danish company expecting 90% of their profits from the United States on expectation of this bill’s passage. So we’re sitting across from him. And I bring these things up, and I bring up a simple question of ai is this one size fits all jamming Ozempic into the average American’s arm instead of opening up flexibility to potentially explore regenerative food or exercise or incentivizing those things.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:09:25
Like, it’s not even fully antidrug, but why is this a like, what clinician said this is the cure? Like, this is the one cure. Because it’s not opening up any money for food or exercise or any other modality that could actually cure the root cause of obesity. And he looked at me fully, fully, like, serious and said I’d never thought of that.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:09:42
And I told him that it’s being pushed on kids and that there’s an aggressive effort where doctor Fatima Cody Stanford, the top obesity researcher at Harvard, was funded significantly by Novo Nordics sana 1,000,000 of dollars in research grants and went on 60 Minutes, where the top funder of 60 Minutes is pharmaceutical companies and said obesity obesity is a brain disease and genetic.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:10:01
She said that. Top Harvard researcher. And she said it needs to be aggressively intervened for kids. Ai I said there’s open season on kids. The guy who introduced the bill, he sai, that’s not true. I’m gonna put in the bill that kids can’t use it.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:10:14
I’m like, you’d be going against the FDA guidance on that. You can’t do that. I go, you understand based on the JPMorgan estimates where they literally presented the estimates of increasing obesity rates at the JPMorgan conference in San Francisco. And the all the investors clapped like seals, standing ovation.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:10:30
Standing ovation as they presented a chart on rising obesity rate showing that as Ozempic increases in prescription rates, obesity in the United States will increase. Unpack that one for me. They show that graph and everyone claps because it’s a lifetime drug because it’s a crash diet. It’s liquid anorexia.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:10:46
It makes you not wanna eat. Crash diets don’t work. Right? And, of course, you know, more than 50% of the people that even have insurance funding for it go off of it within 6 months because it’s the highest rate of side effects of any mass drug prescribed in American history.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:10:58
But but he didn’t know all that, and he looked at me in the eye, the person who introduced this bill that is gonna be the one of the most expensive bills in American history, the the the the market cap of the 9th most valuable company, the most valuable company in Europe they passed LVMH, the fashion company.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:11:12
The most valuable company in Europe rests on this bill. This is the guy that ostensibly wrote it. He sai, no. No. No. It’s a short term solve.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:11:19
Ozempic’s a short term solve. Look at me right in the eyes. I’m like, no. It literally says there’s metabolic issues, and it warns somebody going off the drug. It says you have to take it for life. That’s what the he did not know that. It wasn’t like, the corruption is you have the Brad Windstrup.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:11:33
If somebody wants to do something, if we wanna change the world, email members of Congress, email Brad Windstrup, call his office, and say, we think before we jab 6 year olds with Ozempic, we should fix our food system. This thought literally didn’t occur to him. So what’s happening with this corruption, what’s happening with obesity, with Alzheimer’s, is the corruption is ai it doesn’t even get to people even understanding.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:11:57
The the the boiling frog, it just so it just obviously we’re just gonna find a drug, not ask why people are getting Alzheimer’s. Obviously, we’re just gonna jam 6 year olds with Ozempic and not ask why people are getting obese. And they and then, you know, literally get talking points in the room as he starts thinking about it. Oh, it’s hard. Ai interventions are hard.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:12:12
It’s like, what’s happening now is hard. Like, going to a playground with my 2 year old son and seeing every kid clearly having issues, clearly dealing with obesity, like 60 years old, you know, seeing seeing processed food all over the playground. Like, that like, what’s happening now poisoning ourselves en masse is pretty hard. So there are simple ways to do this.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:12:28
If doctor Fauci in 2020 said COVID has strong metabolic links and we need to harden up our immune system, it’s a problem. We’re dying 3 times at a higher rate than the Japanese per capita. That’s 16% of all COVID deaths are in the US, and ai, like, 4% of the population. Like, we this is a warning sign for our immune system.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:12:44
We need to shift the health care budget to getting fit, to incentivizing exercise, to fixing and talking to Will Harris and other regenerative farmers and consulting them on how to transform our food system, seeing that the the the medical system has has co opted what drugs are and what medicine is.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:13:00
Like, it’s nothing short of a moral blind spot that food and exercise aren’t seen truly as drugs, that that they aren’t seen as interventions from the 4 $500,000,000,000,000 we speak on medical systems. They do that in Europe. The Italians are 3 times less obese and diabetic than us. I don’t think the Italians, you know, are more vigorous.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:13:17
I I don’t think Americans are lazier than Italians. Like, there’s something systemic happening where they spend 3 times less per capita on health care and 2 times more per capita on health care.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:13:27
Living 8 years longer.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:13:28
8 years long. Well
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:13:28
and everybody notices it when you
Speaker: Calley Means
01:13:30
go over there and eat.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:13:30
Oh, yeah. You you
Speaker: Calley Means
01:13:31
You feel good.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:13:31
You feel good.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:13:32
Eat that pizza. You know? It’s ai the only place in the world I can eat gluten because it doesn’t destroy my gut.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:13:37
Yeah. It’s crazy. Yeah. It’s it’s crazy, and it’s weird that all these things that you say are so clear and they make so much sense.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:13:44
Yeah.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:13:44
It just doesn’t have
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:13:45
to be ignored. Well, it just it speaks to capture. Yeah. Industry capture.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:13:50
I I meh with Nancy Pelosi 2 weeks ago. Looked her in the eyes because, you know, we’ve been, helping RFK helping Trump, and and we should talk about that. I think there’s a really, really important societal dynamic happening with that unison. But but I’m preparing as much as I can to foster this bipartisan conversation.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:14:07
I can tell you, everyone in the room, right, like, is horrified by these statistics. But every time, their staffers are slithering behind them. And the health care staffers in congress are waiting for their next job with the pharma industry or the insurance industry, and they really drive the place and make the bills.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:14:23
But a real problem with the corruption is is these people making policies, literally chairs of health care committees. The simple ideas you’re talking about and we’re trying to express on meh health on this simplicity, really, of why we’re getting sick, It’s it’s not being ai corruption is, like, leading them to deny it.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:14:41
It’s like they just do not understand. Like like like, these meetings we’re doing with and this this hearing we we did with Max and Brigham and others, Julie Michaels and and so meh great people. It literally was giving these ideas to these members of congress for the first time.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:14:54
You know, there’ll be a lot more on this, but I truly it’s it’s so simple, but literally letting your lawmakers know. I I hear 2 things again and again ram meeting with over 40 members of congress. It’s like, I don’t understand this. I don’t know this, and my phone’s not ringing off the hook. If I go against pharma, they’re getting all the old people to call and say, don’t kill me.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:15:10
Like like like like, to me, this issue what’s why this issue is becoming so resonant is because we’re all feeling, and I think it’s actually we’re hitting on the most important issue in the country. I think it’s why everyone’s flocking to books on this issue. Why podcasts, like, why your podcast is the number one podcast?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:15:27
I mean, I consider you I’ve learned more about meh health and health care listening to guests on your show than Ai think I think Casey’s probably learned at Sanford Med School. So so so it’s ai people left to their own devices are flocking to this, and we need to channel. We need to make a statement with our politics.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:15:40
This is unfortunately a political issue.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:15:42
So you were one of the people that helped sort of broker the deal with RFK Right. And Trump and bring the 2 of those together. Tell me how that got started. Tell me how that worked out.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:15:52
Yeah. I mean, when I think about that story, I literally think about 2021. Our mom abruptly dying of pancreatic cancer. She was taking a hike, got a pain in her stomach, got a text the next day after getting a scan saying she has stage 4 pancreatic cancer. We rushed to her side. She died 12 days later, just totally surprisingly.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:16:09
And and Casey and I, on her gravesite, literally hugged each other and said, we wanna write a book, and we wanna make this and evangelize ai. Inspired by you and others, we wanna evangelize this and add the chorus to prevent what’s happening because so many Americans are on this pharmaceutical treadmill and then the cancer is random.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:16:24
It’s not random. Like, all these warning signs that were missed with my mom, her prediabetes, her high cholesterol, her high blood pressure, those were peeled, not seen as gifts to get to the root cause, and then she was chopped down by cancer. This is happening to everyone. So we sana to evangelize that. And we’ve been on the path as best we can with companies and evangelizing.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:16:43
And through these amazing podcasts ai like Tucker, we got connected with people. So got to know RFK, got to know Democrats, and got to know the Trump campaign. And in the past year, I will say this, the Trump campaign has been extremely interested in the policy of why kids are getting so sick.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:17:02
And if you go back, a year ago, president Trump actually at rallies to loud applause has been talking very similar points to RFK. So we got to know RFK. Sitting, watching the first assassination attempt, I had, like, a spiritual, what I can call it, kind of out of body experience, and I felt the need to call Robert.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:17:21
I think what he has done is historic. The fact that he was getting up to 20% of the vote, highlighting this issue, tapping in, I think, to this consciousness and tapping into this to this stream that you’re tapping into, I think it really showed something. And I had this vision for a year.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:17:36
I actually it sounds very woo woo, but I I was in a sweat tent with him in Austin at a Camp Pain event 6 months before. And I just I just had this strong vision of, of him standing with Trump and how what RFK represents is actually what Trump represents and actually what almost every American’s feeling, which is this frustration and this rigged thing and this stuck thing that doesn’t quite feel right that you can’t quite put your finger on.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:18:01
And it was so clear to me that how RFK talks about health personifies this overall kind of institutional capture. It makes it real for people in a really visceral way because it’s clearly impacting their kids. So that was all the context. Picked up the phone, called him, and just urged him, you know, as a supporter, as a lowly supporter, to consider maybe this is the time as president Trump put his fist up as you know, with all this meh.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:18:26
There’s rare moments in in history where the deck can change. And I really felt and he felt like this could be a realignment of American politics because that that moment felt very heavy after the assassination. So we went back and forth, and he asked to, you know, he he’s like, let tyler meh let me talk to him.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:18:42
So I worked with Tucker, and we connected them that night. And and here’s the key point I wanna make for my small vantage point here. They had weeks of conversations, and there was not a discussion of polling. There was not a discussion of the horse race and how this would impact the race.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:19:00
These were cure field conversations about why kids are getting so diabetic, about why we have such obese children in the United States, about why we have a fertility crisis. Like, this was a true, like, connection of these 2 men and a true deep bond, which I think you’re seeing out there in the campaign trail, that this transcends politics and this wants Trump wants this to be a generational issue for him.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:19:23
And I just wanna say something. I think we’re at a big moment here. There’s we’re we’re debating trivia. Like, I think the 2 most existential issues are nuclear war or what’s happening to our health. And whatever you think and I I I used to be a never Trumper.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:19:38
Watching him care about this issue, watching what’s happening with the RFK, watching what’s happening of how that’s resonating with voters, seeing Smalley you know, from my small vantage point inside, there is tremendous connection of these 2 men and moral clarity of seeing what’s happening.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:19:57
And my my question is this. And to anyone kind of considering voting in this election, Trump is gonna say stupid shit. He is Trump. We know who he is. There’s 2 important questions to ask. Who sees this corruption and institutional capture that’s going to destroy our country, I think, to an existential level?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:20:15
And who is willing to suffer that blowback? Who is willing to go up against these military industrial complex, the health care industrial complex, the education industrial complex that’s making us a noncompetitive? Like, they are ready. Who is going to appoint? This is a question I have.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:20:32
Who is who do we believe is going to appoint people like RFK, people like Elon Musk to stir stuff up? Who is gonna do that? Like, that to me is the foundational question, and I do consider this the most important election of my lifetime watching these 2 men because it is so genuine.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:20:49
And there is, like, a genuine ai, to truly transform to to sai our broken corruption and institutions for what it is and really, truly, I I I think prevent nuclear war and dramatically reverse our health crisis. Trump has said that his one big mistake last time was personnel, was that the pharma and the ag slithered in and gave him the list of names.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:21:15
Everybody should ask, do you think RFK is gonna have an influence on those names based on what Trump has said? And I think he is. And I think people like Elon are gonna be involved. I think there’s this coalition of people that are coming together, and and Trump’s gonna put in power and listen to. And this is a bipartisan issue.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:21:33
And no matter what happens, we have to solve this issue. But I will say this so clearly with the most conviction I can. We will be on the verge, I think, of a health population collapse, societally destabilizing event unless true executive leadership sees this corruption and this issue for what it is and says we need a radical transformation in how we see agriculture and how we see health, our 2 largest industries.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:21:59
I think we have to have that. And every single member of congress I meet with, including Democrats, say that in order for this issue to get done, we need a president to make this the priority to talk because that gives us air cover, and there could be transformational change if a president does that.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:22:12
So that’s what I’ve seen from being in this. And I and I I can tell you president Trump has kept every promise to RFK and deeply cares about this issue.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:22:21
It also seems like if this isn’t done now, they will take steps to make sure it can never be done in the future.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:22:27
Look what they’re saying yeah. Look what they’re saying about, free speech Yeah. Right now. Yeah. You know, you probably covered this this. It’s just absolutely wild. The free speech comes from the rigging of the scientific research. Bill Gates said this week that we need immediate AI to scour the Internet and take any vaccine misinformation out the out of the Internet automatically on any format, any private web page.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:22:52
This is wild. And he said because the second that virus spreads in people’s minds, it’s the damage is done. So his number one use case for AI is to scour the Internet and remove any vaccine misinformation from the Internet. That is because the largest and fastest growing industry in the country has completely co opted the most trusted parts of the country.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:23:15
There’s no higher level than the NIH, than Harvard Med School. They know that. Harvard Med School’s a subsidiary of arya, just just demonstrably. The FDA is 75% funded by pharma. Like like like, this isn’t a conspiracy.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:23:29
And this is a revolving door.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:23:30
And and you you got you got you’ve got people like Scott Gottlieb. Sai I think the people like Trump’s talking about still thinking he’s gonna have power. This person that goes straight to Pfizer, and you got him and people like this. And and I I’ve met with many of them. Oh, of this book is amazing.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:23:48
Good energy is amazing. The food, you know, of course, we gotta get kids healthier. We got but we gotta work with pharma. We gotta work with the the you know, we gotta work with all the stakeholders insurance companies. You know, we gotta be incremental here.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:24:00
There’s a war right now between incrementalists and radical change. We are living in a great time, but we have existential threats. And the question before everyone in this very important election is do we need more incrementality, or do we need a fundamental rethink of some of our major systems?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:24:17
I I I really think that’s what’s before us. And as Casey said, I think we’re in a good period of history right now, certainly, but we’re we’re we’re facing, I think, more existential threats that that I that I really think we don’t fully appreciate.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:24:32
This is a it’s such a unique time, and it it seems like without a a person that’s a total outsider like Trump that’s being so attacked, the fact that they it’s not just that they disagree with him, they attack him. It’s that they do it in unison. They do it so coordinated that you realize there is a machine behind this, and that they repeat the same talking points over and I mean, it’s like they’re given a script and that no there’s no repercussions for lies.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:24:59
There’s with the Russiagate stuff, with all the the various different things that have been concocted to try to take him out, there’s no no one gets in trouble, and the same people are still disseminating the news. And more people, I think, are aware of that than ever before, and more people are aware of this institutional capture.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:25:18
And I think this is why the freedom of speech issue is actually so important and so existential because the thing that gives me hope right now like, this all sounds dark, but we’re both extremely optimistic. But if the ability to talk about these issues is taken away, that is when I would lose hope. Right?
Speaker: Casey Means
01:25:35
Because the fact that, you know, independent media is the most listened to form of media on planet Earth right now, that is a good thing. We can still discuss ai, and the light can connect across the globe. But when you start severing that ability like, there’s a beautiful force happening right now.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:25:56
I think we all see it. Like, people are waking up. People understand that there’s a understand shah there’s a problem. Like, we see ai every day, and, you know, Twitter has its issues and whatnot, but, like, people are talking and connecting from around the world to try and figure out how to solve these issues that we all know on some level in the quietness of our heart are a really big, big deal and that the time is now.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:26:20
And if that gets taken away, I worry about what’s gonna happen.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:26:25
Well and it is getting taken away in some formats. There was something, Ai believe I retweeted it, see if you can find it, about YouTube taking down a podcast for, medical misinformation, and, there there was none.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:26:38
Mhmm.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:26:38
And this is, without Twitter, without x, without Elon buying it, and this person being able to post it. I think it was Shellenberger. Was it Shellenberger? Who do you sai my Twitter feed? Is it up there?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:26:56
Well, this is the oh, here we go.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:26:58
It’s below the hold on. Oh,
Speaker: Casey Means
01:27:00
that shot. Ai didn’t hear any video.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:27:02
People like doctor Jay and Power.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:27:09
Maybe I didn’t tweet it.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:27:11
Should we rethink the constitution? Is the first amendment a major roadblock? Like, these are questions, Jamie.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:27:16
Yeah. I can talk a little like like, this game is known. So it’s just like ai it may be obvious, but I don’t think people realize this. The reason there’s such a fight against you is because it’s this 100 year change of information sources where the biggest industries in the country can no longer dictate, right, what the information sources are.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:27:36
So when we when we worked for when when I worked for pharma, the advertising budget, all this stuff you hear about, ai, how much they spend on cable news and 50% of TV news spending is pharma, It wasn’t to impact consumers. It was to impact the news itself. Like, that like like, the spend on news shows came out of DC lobbying offices, not the New York, like, Madison Avenue, like like, advertising offices.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:28:04
It was ai, we’re gonna put our budget. It was in the lobbying budget. It was like, we’re gonna pay off all the news sai we have a direct line. So if you’re paying 50%, and a huge, funder of all the all the tech companies, ads, their ad companies, then you’ve got a direct ai, and then you’ve got the Harvard study.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:28:26
So when you have the Harvard study that’s fully funded by pharma or the food industry, ai, the food industry processed food spends 13 more times more on foundational nutrition research than the NIH. But even the NIH is really conflicted saying that ai charms are healthier than beef, literally. You’ve got those studies.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:28:46
So so what is this person at the news station or or YouTube to do when you’ve got the Harvard study?
Speaker: Casey Means
01:28:51
Right.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:28:51
They’ve realized that you can weaponize this thing. So that’s how it’s connect. And then time and time and time again, I hear from members of congress on major committees, they’re just that’s the corruption. That’s where the corruption happens. They got the lobbyists just throwing studies.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:29:03
You know, if you put restrictions on ai nutrition, on federally funded school lunch programs, which is the top source, one of them, of of of calories for young kids, if you if you take sugary cereal ai Lucky Charms off that, you’re going against the science. You’re going against the NIH. You can’t be asking for farm fresh eggs. Farm fresh eggs are down here. Lucky Charms are up here.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:29:23
Like like, it’s funny, these studies, but that’s what they do with them. And then I hear time and time again from these members of congress who are good people, but it’s like, Calin, I’m a military guy or I come from business. I don’t understand this stuff. You just gotta defer. So that’s how the corruption works, and that’s the the that’s how the research connects to PR. Yeah.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:29:46
No. I know I saved it. So just give me one second and I’ll pull it up off of my phone because I definitely saved it ai I didn’t retweet it. But it’s Ai think one of the things that we keep highlighting that I think is very important is that most people are not even really aware of this.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:30:04
This is very new Yeah. To most people in the in the ai, to the common person the the common person who has just trusted their physician and trusted met the medical establishment. I don’t I don’t think I think this is a it requires a real shift in consciousness of people and a real understanding of what’s going on.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:30:20
But there but there’s there’s pings of that consciousness happening. Like, that’s why I think the leadership is so damn important here, Joe. It’s ai it’s like when this stuff is under the shadows and when the FDA is able to lobby to fund the organization that’s supposed to regulate it, when the USDA is lobby excuse me, when food companies are lobbying, you know, to have the USDA not have any conflicts of interest.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:30:43
When these things there’s not a tension on them and and and Meh aren’t being explained this, like, mass corruption that’s compromising all of our scientific guidelines and standard of care where $4,500,000,000,000 ai incentives flows to, Like, it’s hard. But but but but I I would push back. I mean, I just I don’t think it’s fully formed in people’s heads.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:31:01
But, like, I think people are, like, clamoring to put these pieces together. Yes. And and and and and that is what that is I think RFK standing on the stage with Trump and them grasping hands and saying make America healthy, I think it was one of the biggest political realignments and important moments in American history, like, Kennedy endorsing Trump.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:31:19
Like like, I cannot there I think a lot of us feel it. Like, I I think you see it on the ground. Like, this Kennedy Ram thing is powerful. Like, the media denigrates it. But, like, Kennedy is explaining this.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:31:31
The media denigrates it, but I don’t think people have any faith in the media anymore. And they’re listening. Even The New York Times, which used to be the number one. I Sai don’t think people have faith in the media anymore.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:31:42
They’re clamoring they’re clamoring to this message. Like, watching RFK and Trump at a rally, it’s the most electric political experience I’ve ever seen. Like, it was the loudest applause I’ve ever heard. There’s something visceral when RFK starts talking about the CDC needing doctor Jay Bhattacharya on there and the FDA, you know, and the NIH and starts naming those agencies and starts saying we’re gonna get to the bottom of why our food for our kids is poison and we’re going to reverse childhood chronic disease by taking on this corruption, when they say that, it’s electric.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:32:11
It’s like a release. Yeah. It’s like a release. So it’s everything. Everyone’s been listening to you at reading these books, trying to put the pieces together.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:32:17
I think RFK is more effectively putting the pieces together. And and I think people ask, oh, president Trump, he eats unhealthy. No. No. President Trump’s the foundation of his existence is taking on corruption. Like like, that is why he’s on the political stage.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:32:30
That is why he’s been the defining for meh for whatever you think of in the defining political figure of our generation. Like, because he’s tapped into this frustration of voters that something isn’t quite right.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:32:41
Yeah. But
Speaker: Calley Means
01:32:41
and that they’re good people. And if we can get this corruption out of the way that he’s staying in the way of this corruption, and we can unleash the American people if we get this corruption out of the way. That thesis is correct. Like, his what he has tapped into is the defining political trend of our ai, this populist uprising that’s happening throughout all the world.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:32:58
He has tapped into that in a very powerful way. He’s talked for a long time about pharmaceutical corruption in these issues. He understands it innately. But RFK, really, I think better than anyone alive, is is sharpening this issue. And he’s he’s arguing as we’re trying to argue. It’s very simple.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:33:16
It’s actually not that complicated. You just need to put truly, as a first step, put doctor Jay Shah at the CDC. Right? Put someone who’s not trying to get their next job at arya, who’s aligned with this fundamental agenda at the NIH, at the FDA, at the HHS, And then have people like Elon Elon’s saying Elon’s saying he wants to run government efficiency.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:33:35
He wants to look at at how government’s performing. HHS is the largest and the and and the most expensive department in all of government. What if someone like Elon sai people like Bill Ackman who joined this cause, what if they were given an executive order to analyze the HHS to, against the goal of promoting health and thriving and disease reversal for the American people?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:33:59
You have the smartest people in the world doing that. I mean, you’d have radical change. Like like like, that if you can re if you can learn what the pharma has known for the past 30 years, that co opting our institutions to trust, everything else is downstream of that. There’s nothing upstream in culture or trust of those agencies because where do we go about that?
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:34:18
Right.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:34:18
So so they dictate everything. They dictate the nutrition guidelines. They dictate our agricultural incentives. They dictate our standard of care that’s jamming a drug down 40% of teens’ throats right now. If you cannot co opt them like pharma’s doing, but get them back to unbiased sai.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:34:34
The NIH right now, 95% of NIH grants they’re spending is on marginal pharmaceutical r and d. It’s it’s literally an outsourced r and d lab for pharma. Every person listening would expect the NIH job is to do foundational research, that that’s literally what everyone’s saying. It’s not. Not at all.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:34:49
If you just, with a swipe of a pen in leadership, just demand day 1 that the NIH goes back to population wide fearless studies about why we’re getting sick. That’s what we need. We literally need the NIH only asking that question. Why are we getting sick? What variables are tied to chronic disease?
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:35:06
Have you anticipated what kind of backlash in how this would be handled? Like, what kind of backlash would you get from these captured institutions if this did happen, if Trump and RFK get into office and they start implementing these policies and changing things and bringing new people at the helm.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:35:26
There’s one candidate they’re shooting at. Yeah. There’s one candidate. Executive leadership is existential to this issue. Like, I like, I have a company. I’m meeting with meh of both sides. This doesn’t change without executive leadership. It’s just it’s just factual statement. I hate that health is political. It’s not. It’s bipartisan.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:35:48
It is political in the next 40 days. This will not change if this issue resonates. And if we believe that what’s happening to our soil and to our bodies and to our kids’ health is really the most important issue. It doesn’t change without strong moral clarity and executive leadership, even if the person says stupid shit and tweets weird stuff.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:36:10
Right. But even if they do get in office this is my point. What happens? Like, have you thought about this? Like, the the amount of money we’re talking about these people losing.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:36:20
Every single member of congress. Ai want tyler meh make this super clear. Okay. I want everyone to understand this. It’s powerful, these interests, but we all know this. I think we can feel this too. They’re not monolithic. It’s a paper tiger. We can overcome this. It’s because there’s not focus and marshaling of the American people and light on these things.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:36:43
Every single member of congress tells me they said the only thing that beats money is grassroots focus, is Americans focusing on the issue. The most powerful issue in American politics actually aren’t money issues. They’re grassroots issues. Guns, abortion, those aren’t money issues.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:36:59
Those are issues that people are focused on and vote on. So what Trump and RFK are starting to do is really tie the foundation of Trump’s candidacy, in my opinion, which is really taking the corruption out of the swamp. And then there’s other issues. Of course, we gotta get the border ai, you know, defense, economic agenda.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:37:17
But health care’s a glaring example of that where there’s been focus on the campaign and a promise of focus, you know, and real political, I think, validity in focusing on that because people are getting really fired up about this. I can’t express this stuff. Watch the rallies with RFK and Trump. There’s real visceral political, focus on that. So that if that anger right?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:37:36
If that same energy stream that’s leading people to listen to your podcast and leading people to flock to Elon and leading, you know, leading to I think people, frankly, to go back to church. I mean, millennials are flocking back to religion. I I like like, there’s all these streams inside where people are kinda, like, trying to check.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:37:52
If leadership can channel that no. These are paper tigers. These are paper ai, but you need the president to say f you to these industries that are profiting from kids being sick and tell congress Ai giving you air cover. Tell those lobbyists to get the hell out of your office. That’s the message from the president with that leadership. Now are these powerful interests?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:38:12
Is this the biggest industries in the country? Right? Are these the most powerful industries in the country? Yes. But but but, again, whatever Trump is tweeting, whatever he’s saying, you have to just ask yourself. And this comes from a person who used to be an ever Trumper.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:38:25
Like, who has the courage to stand up to these interests? Who has the courage? Does anyone think that Trump is afraid to to put RFK, put Elon, put brave doctors in charge, to put people that are distrustful of the military industrial complex in charge of our military? Like, does anyone think he’s not gonna do that? Does anyone think he’s gonna really stand their way and not not take some blowback from these industries?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:38:51
He said this very clearly. The biggest mistake of his last presidency was not trusting his gut, was listening to the the list of people, you know, from the industry.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:39:01
Well, it’s also I I would imagine and if I talk to him, my my number one question would be, what happens when you get in there? Like, what is that experience like? And because no one really knows until you’re in office. They don’t tell you how it’s gonna go down if you don’t make it.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:39:17
You know, they don’t reveal all that. Like, so what is that experience ai, and how can you prepare for it without actually being elected president?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:39:25
So ram my opinion, what from my small vantage points, what happens is you get bombarded with complexity. Right? The the what the industries do oh, you can’t touch agriculture incentives even though they’re ai broken. That’s gonna hurt farmers. You can’t you know, oh, health care.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:39:40
Oh, the PBMs I’m hearing this all the time. The PBMs and the insurance companies, all these players, you’d have to have clarity of vision and an agenda which president Trump and RFK are talking about that’s super, super clear. It’s ai, we are going to get pharma funding out of the FDA.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:39:55
We are going to reorient with an executive order the goal of the NIH back to foundational research. We are going to disallow people that make nutrition guidelines for kids to take money from Kellogg’s. Like like, there’s 30 things that you can do. And I think I think what president Trump has talked about and what you it is is is, like, let’s stay high level. We’re not gonna have nuclear war. Right?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:40:17
We’re going to aggressively call out and push on major policy objectives to take the corruption out of the health care institutions, to attack the incentive that every single health care institution in America today makes more money when a child is sicker for a longer period of time, just demonstrably.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:40:32
Insurance companies, they make 15% by law profit margin. They want premiums to grow. That’s what’s happening. Pharma companies make money on interventions when people are sicker for longer periods of time. Hospitals, as Casey talks about, makes money on interventions, does not make money money when people are health healthy. Medical schools make money from the sick care system.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:40:49
Every you just a clear eyed set of objectives, I think it could fit on a small piece of paper. What you do is you have a lobbyist come in and say it’s complex. Like like, there’s just simple questions. Why are we paying 10 times more for drugs than Germany? Why why in the United States it’s 10 times more expensive to Ai than in Germany or Scandinavia?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:41:08
Like, there’s these simple, simple things. You can do that. Trump’s talked about it. Biden’s talked about it. It’s bipartisan.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:41:13
It’s not free market that we’re paying 10 times more than the Germans. We’re the biggest buyer drugs in the country. Why are we subsidizing the rest of the world and subsidizing the pharmaceutical industrial complex? That could be one stroke of a pen. Right?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:41:23
One stroke of a pen to, reset and say we’re not we you know, no price setting. You can charge whatever you want, but we’re not gonna pay more than the insurance. Charge whatever you want. We have every right to do that. That’s one stroke of pen. And then you get the blowback. You get, oh, you’re gonna hurt innovation. It’s not our job to fund innovation for Europe.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:41:40
Like, charge charge us the same price. You’re gonna hurt, you know, you’re gonna lead to drug shortages. Well, f you. Like, charge a higher price to like, you can do but it but it’s, like, literally, like, just, like, clear focus. Like like and and I think Ram, like, he’s talking about this. He’s seen it. So, you know, to anyone kind of and I’ve gone through this process.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:41:59
It’s ai, he he he we know who he is, But we also know that he’s going to put good people in charge and not stand in their way and wants to be both.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:42:08
And there is the the benefit of him having already been in and understanding all the red tape and all the problems and all the influences and and all the stuff that he couldn’t correct in 4 years.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:42:19
I I also just can’t imagine, like, if what’s Cali’s talking about from the top is happening and putting voice to power to some of these things that people feel and people know if this is actually right now, it is silenced at the top. We went through 4 years of COVID without a single health care leader at an agency ever telling us to get on top of our metabolic health and how to do that ever, and yet people were talking about it.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:42:43
So if we are able to give voice at the highest level to these concepts, I just wonder also what that ripple effect through our country is gonna be like when people are part of that tribe that can actually speak about it without the fear of being called, you know, just totally, ai, you know, crazy person for even talking about these things.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:43:04
That grassroots momentum that I think could happen would be incredibly powerful where we can all come together to work on this because as opposed to it being adversarial with the top, it’s connected to what the top is talking about. We we so believe, you know, parents don’t want their kids getting sick. We don’t wanna be sick.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:43:25
We don’t wanna see our parents dying of Alzheimer’s and cancer and all of these diseases. There is this pervasive thread that Americans are lazy and they don’t wanna be healthy. I I was indoctrinated with that message as a medical student and as a surgical resident. It’s not true. People wanna be healthy. There’s a huge system rigged against them.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:43:45
You know, we’ve got people don’t wanna be feeding their kids this dead trash food that comes in a package, but it is what is cheaper because of corrupt policy at the top with the farm bills. You know, people don’t want their kids to be eating this plastic meat in school, but, you know, Lunchables and Kraft Heinz and the USDA forged a deal that’s now putting Lunchables in schools that serve 7,000,000,000 meals, to children per year.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:44:08
You know? And doctors then don’t get a single minute of nutrition education in 8% of medical school. So you just imagine, like, we’ve got people who want to be healthy. We truly believe that Americans want to be healthy. And for the first time in many years, this could be an opportunity for that to be aligned with the country’s vision and priority as opposed to adversarial to it.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:44:29
And I think that that you know, Jason Karp in the Senate hearing, who’s one of the co founders of WHO WHO Kitchen, talked about, if 5% of revenue of some of these big companies ai Kellogg’s and General Mills, you know, drops because people are no longer willing to buy these food because there’s a real movement about it, they will change.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:44:45
They will they will re innovate towards what people actually want. But ai now, it’s it’s, like, controversial to even push like, you you ai your called you know, you’re far right. You know, these thing you have to have so much strength to be healthy in this country. And not only that, you have to have financial resources and strength, strength of courage.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:45:05
And so, you know, he says, yeah, if people change their buying decisions, which I think ai I think will be easier to do culturally if we are talking about these things on the highest level, then it’s gonna change, I think, also I think a a a potential light filled vision of what could happen is that some of these companies might adapt to consumer demand and do better do better, processes.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:45:28
Like, we need as a state we we need to get back to American agriculture being regenerative agriculture. We’re totally screwed if we don’t do that. We cannot continue with this mass poisoning of our farmland. Not only is it horrible for our farmers who are who are dying at astronomical rates from chronic disease, but it’s terrible for our children and our bodies.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:45:46
And if people start understanding that because people like RFK are in, you know, in in the leadership positions and that’s becoming part of the zeitgeist, it will change the way people buy and what they’re willing to tolerate. But right now, the norm, because of corrupt incentives in a rig system, is to be unhealthy.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:46:03
And I think when people get permission to push back against that, we are gonna see we could see an incredibly bright, beautiful future in a very short period of time in America. We believe that’s possible.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:46:14
I believe it’s possible too, and I think it’s incredibly cynical and unpatriotic to think that all Americans are lazy. It’s ai people are It’s crazy. We operate on meh. And if you’ve lived your life eating bad food and being sedentary, you’re gonna continue to do so unless something jolts you out of that.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:46:29
And if there’s a moment in the zeitgeist where a good percentage of people start shifting in a very particular direction, taking care of themselves, and then the people around them see that and see the benefits and see these people improve, and then they become inspired to do it.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:46:44
It could have a huge effect on the population.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:46:47
The the
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:46:48
There’s a lot of Americans that are not lazy, Don’t. You know, I’m American.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:46:52
People sana live. Yeah. People sana be ai.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:46:54
They wanna be energetic. Yeah. They wanna have health, and they wanna be they wanna be successful in life. And one of the best ways to be successful in life is have more energy to pursue the things you’re interested in.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:47:04
Yeah.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:47:05
And the only way you do that is if your body’s healthy.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:47:07
Many listeners are battling, surely, chronic conditions, diabetes, obesity, heart disease, etcetera. I don’t think any listener in their head wants to be sick. I don’t think any No. Man wants to not walk their daughter down the aisle. My mom wanted to be healthy. She wanted to meet her grandchild, which she wasn’t able to do.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:47:25
I think there’s this slur and this lie. We are a free country. We should have sugary filled foods. Right? We should have beer. Drugs should be legal.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:47:35
But we should not be subsidizing Coca Cola with food stamps. The the standard of care is wrong. Like, after my awakening with Casey ai I thought, what do I wanna do with my life? I started a company and it writes letters of medical necessity, doctor’s notes for food and exercise.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:47:50
I I real we ai something that nobody in the health care system knows. Nobody Casey didn’t learn this I
Speaker: Casey Means
01:47:54
never ever learned in medical school or residency that I could write a prescription for food or exercise. It’s totally legal. And if you do that, it can be covered by you can use tax advantage dollars tax free. So so so every learn that in 9 years.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:48:09
So you mean you could use tax dollars to give people gym membership?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:48:12
Yes. Yes.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:48:13
That is right now, legal. I never learned that. It’s called letter of medical necessary.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:48:17
So Yeah. Arya TrueMed has this year, we’ll do 500,000 gym membership recommendations from providers. We initially got a lot of questions from the industry because they’ve never heard these letters of medical necessity. We’ve walked into this through, walked into law. As much as Pfizer has tried when I worked for Pfizer, the definition of medicine in the IRS tax code is not a synthetic pill made by a large pharmaceutical industry.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:48:39
The definition of medicine is something that’s recommended by a medical practitioner for the prevention, vatsal, cure, mitigation of a condition. The problem is that they’ve co opted what medicine is in our brains, and at Stanford Med School, nobody understands this. So we’ve actually been educating members of congress about this. But but, there’s $150,000,000,000 in these HSA funds, and this is a message to everyone.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:48:59
It’s our company’s doing it, but I would say it’s for it’s much wider than that. Go to your doctor and demand a letter of medical necessity when they’re taking out the prescription pad for the statin, for the metformin, for the SSRI. Right? Study after study shows they have 2 cohorts of people.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:49:16
They’ve got people that exercise and eat whole foods, and then they have people that do antidepressants and go to therapy. The people that don’t go to therapy, no drugs, but exercise and eat better food, demonstrably better outcomes in depression. So I think where this all goes over hits the road, and this is an important thing, I think, from conservatives, liberal. It’s not it’s not about lecturing Americans.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:49:37
The answer is that lecturing Americans what to eat. I mean, they’re buying books. They’re, you know, listening to doctor Huguemann. But a lot of people are on a health journey. But with our clinical incentives, we should be incentivizing the clinically appropriate intervention for what health issues we’re facing.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:49:55
We are facing a chronic disease metabolic health crisis. It’s 9 out of 10 killers of Americans and ai percent of medical spending. So just clinically and Europe is actually doing this. Right? If you’re have PCOS, infertility in Europe, mid most countries, you get a subsidized keto diet because PCOS, which is the leading cause of female infertility, is insulin resistant.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:50:18
It’s basically on the diabetes spectrum. And the most effective intervention the most effective intervention to reverse PCOS and become more fertile is going on a 12 week keto diet. Okay? It it spurs so what happens in the United States? Doctors good friends.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:50:34
And, actually, my my good friend that I always reference is an OBGYN from Harvard now is educating his patients about this, and we’ve had good conversations. But doctors from Harvard Medical School who are OBGYNs do not know when they’re sitting across from a patient who’s infertile what causes PCOS.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:50:47
It’s immediate the standard of care the standard of care is immediate jamming hormone pills down that woman’s throat and on a quick route to IVF. IVF should absolutely, of course, be legal, but that’s an invasive procedure. Right? And no woman listening, I’m sure, who’s going to the traditional medical system and most, you know, women, many meh it’s an epidemic right now, PCOS. They’re not told this.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:51:10
They’re not told this. So so so the key in the policy here is opening up flexibility for Americans to work with their doctor to trust that they don’t wanna kill themselves. Sometimes drugs might be the answer, But we’re way, way over indexed on that right now. Like, could you imagine what would happen if, you know, Americans who are prediabetic or their kids are obese had the ability, instead of the $1600 that we’re mandating for 6 year olds a month of government funded money to go to Ozempic, if that could give mom the choice, give meh the choice, we would have a transformation of our food system.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:51:48
And yeah. So so so that’s what we’re that’s what I kinda decided to push on in my life and and and and and really, every American, the most defiant thing you can do personally, 80% of people have an HSA and FSA account. Max those out if you’re battling a chronic condition or even trying to prevent a chronic condition. Get your 8 Speak. Get your Ai Greens.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:52:07
Get your, you know, gym membership. Talk to your doctor about it. Like like, we want an we want a revolution of people actually demanding something Casey and I talk a lot about, acute versus chronic. This is very important. If you are about to die with an infection, a burst appendix, a gunshot wound, go to the doctor. Go to the doctor. Take pause on chronic.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:52:32
You’re being kids are being now kind of you’re anti science if you don’t get on those meh, statins, SSRIs, Ozempic. Right? The the the the studies are being kind of shaming those moms, these poor moms on Meh, you know, single moms trying to make ends meet. They they have Medicaid is just a disaster. We poisoned poor kids and then and then jammed drugs down their throat. Moms don’t know what to do.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:52:52
We just we, we just have to incentivize and and just ask that question. And and and and every patient should know, you have the ability to to step back. Your your kid’s not gonna die tomorrow if they don’t take the statin. Like, there’s another route you can go. And our we have a chapter, don’t, don’t trust your doctor. Or what is it? Trust yourself, not your doctor.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:53:10
But, like, the evidence
Speaker: Casey Means
01:53:10
chronic on chronic conditions which where
Speaker: Calley Means
01:53:12
they have abjectly failed. They’ve failed. Like like like like yeah.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:53:16
Yeah. I mean, if you think about what’s happened
Speaker: Calley Means
01:53:17
over the past 50 years, all of these chronic diseases are
Speaker: Casey Means
01:53:23
exploding. And the more we medicate them, the higher the disease rates are. Like, the more Sai SSRIs we prescribe, the more depression we’re getting. The more metformin we’re prescribing, type 2 diabetes rates are going up. The more clomiphene we are prescribing, the more we’re having to do IVF procedures. You know?
Speaker: Casey Means
01:53:39
It it’s it’s it’s not making sense. The more ai, ACE inhibitors, you know, beta blockers, the more ai going up. And so it it doesn’t really make sense that we would say, oh, they’re crushing it on these diseases by prescribing more pills when as the you know, we’re prescribing 221,000,000 prescriptions for statins per year, and heart disease is continuing to be the leading cause of death in the United States.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:54:07
This doesn’t make any sense. And, you know, it’s like Hallie’s saying, like, it is a free country, and people should be allowed to make choice. But we don’t need to pay for the bad choices for people, which is what we’re doing.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:54:18
We don’t incentivize cigarettes for kids.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:54:20
Ai We’re incentivizing sugar. We’re putting it in their school lunches. We are also making those foods cheaper through the farm bills and through our complete and utter support of $500,000,000,000 program, the farm bill program. And it’s all in terms of the crop subsidies going towards commodity crops that are turned into ultra processed foods and making them cheaper.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:54:41
Less than 1% of the entire farm bill budget goes towards fruits, vegetables, nut seems, be beans like
Speaker: Calley Means
01:54:49
or branches ai Will Harris, you know, who who’s a who’s a hero. And, truly, I mean, if if people wanna do something before the election, they’re trying to slide the farm bill ai year extension under our noses right now. They’re trying to vote on that right now because they’re trying to get it in before Trump gets in because they know Trump’s gonna blow stuff up.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:55:07
If you wanna call your member of congress, take one minute, ask them to do food and and, you know, not have just government funded Ozempic before fixing our food system, the Treat and Reduce Obesity Act, and tell them it needs to be a 1 year extension on the farm bill. This is happening right now. I’m getting literally from heroes and members of congress arya asking me to talk about this.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:55:27
They’re trying to jam this farm bill that it’s 90% subsidizes ultra processed food ingredients. I mean, we’re we’re slanting. We’re just we we we you know, as a conservative growing up words are generated. As a conservative growing up, I used to work for you know, conservative think tanks used to pay us too, along with the NAACP. Excuse me.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:55:47
We used to pay conservative think tanks, the pharma industry. So we rig the system, and then we pay conservative influencers to say it’s nanny state to question the rigged system. Think about how screwed up that is. Right? We we we we rig the system beyond recognition, tens of 1,000,000 of dollars of lobbying spending to ensure that sugary drinks, ai diabetes water is on food stamps.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:56:05
And then the moment you question that, you get attacked by the conservative influencers saying your nanny state. We are still in that situation. We’re waking up, and I think Trump’s really realigned the parties to where when I grew up, you know, as a young conservative, it’s like you trust the farmer, trust food without question, and it’s totally against orthodoxy on the conservative side to question any corporation.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:56:25
That’s changed, which is a very good thing. But you still have little remnants of that. Fixing a rigged market is not an attack on the free market. It’s a necessity. We have the the pharmaceutical industry spends 5 times more on lobbying and public affairs than the oil industry.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:56:41
There’s 5 pharmaceutical lobbyists for every single government official. The health care industry, just as it just as the economics, is the highest spender of TV news the the highest funder of TV news. They’re the highest funder of politicians themselves, literally, by far. They’re the highest spender on research. They fund the regulatory agencies themselves. Right?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:57:06
They fund the NAACP and civil rights groups and weaponize issues like feminism, racism, and body positivity very strategically to get us to shut up. They are just demonstrably the health care industry is the lifeblood of every single institution that we trust in Meh, and to question that is not nanny state.
Speaker: Calley Means
01:57:25
That’s something Trump and RFK have kinda bashed through. We need a reset. We need to come together, with the farmers, you know, with the brave people in health care and and and have a reset. And I would just ask you, any listeners, is it does it feel like it’s a marginal issue, or does it feel like, you know, we kinda need to have almost a spiritual reset here?
Speaker: Calley Means
01:57:45
And that’s kind of I I think we can. Like, I like, if we keep focusing on this and keep pushing, I think we can really unleash what everyone wants, honestly. Yeah.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:57:54
I think it’s also an information ripple effect, and this is why it’s so important to have people like you lay this out so clearly is that most people haven’t heard it said. Ai yeah. I think you guys have said it as clearly as anybody I’ve ever heard. And the message is so clear, and it’s so concise, and then it gets out there. Mhmm. And this wasn’t available 5 years ago. It just wasn’t.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:58:16
It just didn’t I’d ever heard it. It wasn’t I I didn’t think that there was medical capture. I didn’t think there was a problem with the before COVID. I had no idea that there was this this prevailing issue. I would have been the 1st person to defend vaccines.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:58:28
Ai would have been the 1st person to defend the the medical establishment. Like, they’re working very hard to create drugs to help people with all these diseases and we’ve got problems. And people are getting the information now in a way they’ve never gotten it before through the Internet, and I think because it’s not regulated, I think that’s one of the things that freaks these people out.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:58:47
And that’s why you have people like Bill Gates who have profited tremendously from, vaccines and his global health care initiative, air quotes, that this guy would be so bold as to say we have to remove vaccine misinformation when what studies have been done on vaccines? Like, you you tell me what how clear are you when there is some sort of a correlation?
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:59:12
There’s a a rise in all these issues, and there’s a rise in all these vaccines in children, and you’re saying that the work has been done. Show me that work. Yeah. Well, that work doesn’t exist.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:59:24
Right.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:59:25
And that’s why this medical misinformation label is fucking horseshit.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:59:29
Yeah.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:59:30
And it’s scary that someone of great influence and extreme wealth would be promoting that. Yeah. When he profits off of it. Yeah.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:59:38
Yeah. I mean, if all these medications were crushing it and there were no side effects, everyone should probably take them. Yes. Right? But Yeah. But if that’s not really the case, then we need to silence anything that talks about it.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
01:59:48
Like Which is crazy.
Speaker: Casey Means
01:59:49
I think COVID, obviously, as you’ve said, like, it broke something open. It broke something open that I feel like is light, because it’s awareness. And, you know, it’s I was probably a little more cynical having been in the health care system going into COVID because I was raised as a as a young surgeon with the mantra, as a surgeon, you eat what you kill.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:00:10
Like, that is the unofficial mantra of the surgical world, which is that as a ai practice surgeon, what what you eat, I e, what your salary is gonna be is what you kill, how many surgeries you sell and book. And so it was very black and white to me to understand that, that that it that the financial security of everyone in the health care system is dependent on how much we actually do to people, how much we, you know, unfortunately, sai these bodies essentially a box that we can either take things out of or put things in a in.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:00:40
You know? Surgery is taking things out, or put medications in. Like, that’s it’s very dark. That’s why I left. That’s why I literally just put down my scalpel because I was heading out of residency into private practice, and I thought Sai can’t I can’t do this. I can’t.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:00:53
That’s crazy, right, that this is, like, the business model of my industry because it’s very personal. And then, you know, I had a really good friend who was with me in the hallway before taking a job, as a as a cancer surgeon and, you know, tearful saying, you know, I don’t know if I can do this.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:01:11
Like, when people come to the doors of the surgical oncology department here, they are gonna get a surgery whether they need it or not. Those are her exact words. And
Speaker: Joe Rogan
02:01:19
god.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:01:20
This is this is because it is and, again, we I every doctor I know is a good person, went into health care for noble reasons. But if you have a if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If that’s what you know and that’s what you can offer people, that is what you’re gonna offer people.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:01:37
And especially with cancer, when people are hopeless and desperate and you have something you can do for them and it happens to be really profitable, this this revolving door keeps happening. You know, and then there’s these, like then just always getting back to systems issues because that’s where Cali and I really focus.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:01:54
Like, you look at some of these things, like, that sound good on paper. You know? The and I think this is actually a lot what’s happening with politicians is they see these bills, lots of things coming across their desk, and they kinda sound good on paper. It’s gonna be good for farmers. It’s gonna be good for obesity. Reduce obesity. Sounds great, but the devil’s always in the details.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:02:12
You know, you look at what happened with Obamacare and, like, they they did they did speak about this idea of value based care, which sounds really good. It’s ai we’re gonna have we’re gonna pay doctors more for better outcomes, which which is awesome. So a doctor would have to shah, essentially, that they’re the patient is getting better and they’re doing it for a lower cost. That’s the value equation.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:02:34
And if that happens, they get paid more. Well, the easiest by far evidence based way to make a patient healthier for a lower cost is to have them eat real food and exercise and go in the sunshine and and and speak. Right? And, like, manage their stress, obviously, not not drugging them for life. And, unfortunately, that even that that whole project got co opted by industry.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:02:55
Because what happened was industry got their their fingers in it. And the quality metrics that doctors were gonna have to report on to get that increased payment, instead of it being quality, good outcomes, being a healthier patient who reversed their disease, quality, good outcomes was measured by how many of the patients in that doctor’s practice were medicated on long term medication therapy.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:03:19
So a doctor, instead of saying, I reversed these 50 patients’ ai, and now they are nondiabetic, they would report that they had their patient panel on long term diabetes meh. They were compliant with it. That was a good outcome. So even something that sounds good, Obamacare, value based care can get corrupted if we don’t look at the details.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:03:42
There’s a new bill right now that’s been introduced that’s all about, you know, protecting farmers that’s basically gonna allow the EPA, which is totally bought off, to decide at a federal level whether these different pesticides are safe or not. And so if the EPA says that a particular pesticide is state sai, then state by state, it’s gonna be similar to the vaccines where people cannot sue for harm caused by pesticide injury if it’s got the label that the FDA said it was safe.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:04:11
So it’s like, oh, well, this is gonna create less complexity for farmers, and we’re gonna have less litigate but it’s it’s the devil’s in the details. And so, you know, I think that all that is to say, I think COVID some COVID broke something open that is good because it’s basically giving people the courage in the face of total insanity that happened to ask why and to be a little bit more emboldened to do that.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:04:34
And, but there’s, you know, there’s a lot to clean up. And I think that just seeing it firsthand in the health care system, like, I have a little cynicism about it because of the way the incentives are in the business model, but I ai, like Sai saloni, with executive leadership, this could change rapidly.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:04:49
This is it sounds complicated. I’m I’m this can be unwound very quickly. Nobody wants this. You need executive leadership, strong executive agenda, and then a strong legislative, priorities. And you need, with the executive agenda, to have transformational change eventually get to some real bipartisan.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:05:08
But I would argue, just listening to what Casey’s talking about in these systems issues, we all think, oh, we gotta who are the experts, the uncorrupted medical experts who can figure this out? I think people like Elon Musk are much more important health care thinkers, systems thinkers.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:05:21
We need systems thinkers to literally just stop start top down looking at these agencies, looking at the web of incentives, and asking what is something that makes sense to spur American health and disease vatsal? Ai, like, we spend $4,500,000,000,000 this is on Parson. Right? We speak $4,500,000,000,000. It’s growing at double the rate of GDP on, basically, managing Americans voicing themselves.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:05:42
It’s ai, how do we successfully use that money to reverse these trends? It’s it’s actually when you get down to and start going down these rabbit holes, there’s some major things you could do that are very dramatic. And it does get to to core bureaucratic, you know, change. And you get to incentive change.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:06:00
You get to reorienting the incentives of these industries, and you get to eventually where all the money is, which is where are the subsidies going to and where are those $4,500,000,000,000 of health care spend going to. And you just have to demand that that follows the science and go to the right standard of care. And, frankly, again, I can’t stress this enough.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:06:17
Just let Americans choose. Give the Americans the information. Give the like, fearlessly. Let’s give them the information on diabetes. Let’s give them the information on obesity.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:06:25
Let’s give them the information on the 72 vaccines. Let’s give them the information on everything and trust that the American people aren’t suicidal enough to want just wanna kill themselves. We’ve infantilized the American people with our health care industry. And I think there’s, like, actual, like, cultural and and spiritual ramifications from that.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:06:40
We we have told the USDA says that it’s dangerous to grow food in your backyard. Right? Literally, there’s a war on on whole food. Bill Gates says it’s ai. You’ve said that, you know, trees help with global warming. He’s literally putting up sun blockers.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:06:55
He’s saying that it’s anti science to say that the future for developing country and feeding them is anything other than lab grown meat and ultra processed food. Like like like like, we’re in a bizarro world here. Yeah. We need moral clarity. Do we need studies to tell us that regenerative ranching and more natural processes and not raping our soil to where there’s only 40 crop cycles left and try to out hack everything and spray poison over all the crops?
Speaker: Calley Means
02:07:20
Like, do like, we just need to get back to basics. By ai Yeah.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:07:23
I was just gonna sai, the immediate response to what Cali’s saying is that’s gonna decrease access. People are gonna starve. People are you know, this is an equity issue. People can’t afford it in our agriculture. Yeah. By design. Right? That is also a systems issue.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:07:37
The fact that people can’t afford that food is because we’re subsidizing the to
Speaker: Calley Means
02:07:40
poison yourself.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:07:40
We’re the subsidizing the shitty food. So it’s ai the that’s why at every level, you know, the immediate backlash to saying any of this is that, oh, that’s elitist, classist, racist, whatever, you know, because not everyone can afford this. But that is literally by design, and that could be changed as well.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:07:58
Well, just just think about these congressional meetings, and it’s not a blink of an eye that that podiatrist, representative Windstrap, Bill Ozempic, $1600,000,000,000,000 of dollars of ramification, not even a blink.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
02:08:11
He didn’t even read the bill.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:08:12
Will make this up.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:08:13
Even read the bill. Ai then we get lectured at the next meeting about how not poisoning kids is too expensive.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:08:20
Or complicated. How are we gonna I mean, how are we gonna get the food there?
Speaker: Calley Means
02:08:23
It’s not complicated.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:08:24
You know what’s complicated? Sitting a 12 year old down once a week to get an injection for their obesity. Like, this is insane. Like, going going to the pharmacy, having to pay for that, having to get the kid to to accept the injection.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:08:36
The other form of vidities that kid is gonna have because they’re not addressing the root cause.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:08:39
That kid’s still gonna be living in a toxic stew. They’re still gonna have a totally challenged life. Their mitochondria, you know, is that o is that Ozempic gonna go into their cell and somehow clear out the mitochondria of all the other toxic crap that we’re still living in?
Speaker: Casey Means
02:08:51
Absolutely not. So it’s ai we are being gaslit. We are being gaslit to think that for some reason, the pharmaceutical approach is the only one that
Speaker: Calley Means
02:09:02
Only legitimate science.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:09:03
It’s the only it’s the only thing we should be passionate about. It’s the only thing that, like, defies complexity or cost and silence on kids need to be outdoors playing. You know, right now, the average kid in America is spending less time outdoors than a maximum security prisoner. Ai we should think about that. You know?
Speaker: Casey Means
02:09:19
The fact that the pesticides, the plastics, the the the sleep, the all the things. And somehow that’s all too it’s too complicated, but we can jam kids for life with a shot weekly for $600 a month.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:09:30
There’s no reason for this. Like like like like like, you just hear this sana if it makes sense and you ask, like, how can this be undone? It’s just like, it truly like, this could be undone. Like like, it’s just it’s just because we haven’t had focus on it. But, like, you can get this done in a year. Like, I truly believe that RFK, you know, and Trump will focus on this.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
02:09:48
I think it’s also something that truly should be a non political issue in terms
Speaker: Calley Means
02:09:54
of ai.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
02:09:56
It’s like I know they’re labeling ai, and I’ve I’ve seen them even label red meat consumption as being some sort of a far right thing.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:10:04
I’m liking sunlight.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
02:10:05
Right. It I it’s all horseshit, and I think most people realize it’s all horseshit. It’s not like the abortion issue. It’s not like immigration. It’s not like one of these things that people are ideologically captured to side on one side of the fence or the other. I think it’s a fundamental human thing that would resonate with most folks if it starts getting going. Meh.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:10:24
Everyone wants this. Everyone wants this. I mean, again, we’re we are idealistic, but this is a legacy issue. I I I I I I it’s not a partisan issue. Again, I think that executive leadership, we have to be clear eyed If we don’t have moral clarity and people that are gonna say go away to the these industries and have clear level headed thinking on what’s actually happening, we’re screwed.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:10:48
But but there are members of congress, and there’s bipartisan appetite. Again, we’ve been meeting with dozens of them. We’ve I’ve been getting personal DMs from members of congress, on this journey. People are clamoring for answers here, and I do believe that a focus on chronic disease vatsal, can be a banner bipartisan initiative that will go down in history.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:11:13
You know, I I I think in a history book, if we’re still around a 100 years, we’ll talk about this moment where we, I mean, we’ll tyler what the shame we’ll have for what we did to kids on obesity. Like, childhood obesity, there’s no greater moral standard in our country. It’s ai 3% in Japan. It’s like 50% of teens are overweight or obese here.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:11:32
So just, like, what are we doing? Ai, I think
Speaker: Casey Means
02:11:35
we’re not thinking about this. Like, what are we doing with our time?
Speaker: Joe Rogan
02:11:38
Right.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:11:38
You know? I just really don’t understand ai, but I think that that gets into some of the tech and the more cultural issues. Like, we’re so distracted. And by design. Right? Like, we’re so obsessed with on our phones 10 hours a day. You know, the average kid, I think it’s 7 hours a day now on a screen. So we’re not we’re we’re totally funneled in on this stuff.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:11:58
And then you’ve got these other cultural factors that may have good intentions. Like, tech has a great side and feminism has a great side, but they get weaponized culturally to say, like, yeah, you know, like we were talking about earlier, women don’t cook. Being a mother is saloni class citizenship. It’s associated with, like, being property and slave. Get out of the work force, rise the corporate ladder.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:12:18
And women are now 25% of them are SSRIs. Divorce rates are 50%. Men are lost because, basically, women are saying, like, men don’t have a role anymore. You know, we got this. And kids kids are are not being able to, you know, get that quality time with their family to play and to be wisdom to be passed down and to have home cooked meals.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:12:38
And, you know, and I feel it’s it’s obviously the beautiful sides to that, but, also, it’s ai we’ve totally lost our priorities and we’re giving away our attention freely sai that we’re so distracted, that we’re missing we’re missing the existential issues that are happening here now.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:12:55
And I think that what Kelly and I really wanna share is that, like, there’s there’s a way to get back to, I think, deep fulfillment and genuine health, but it’s it you know, we do have to the chronic disease epidemic is just part and parcel with all of this because, you know, our brains and our bodies are are basically getting destroyed.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:13:15
And then it’s a vicious downward cycle where if our bodies aren’t strong and our minds aren’t strong, we’re actually less strong to build a to to face and to push back against the things that are trying to capture our attention. You know, you get a kid who’s eating the dead food filled with the sugars and the seed oils and their brain’s inflamed.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:13:34
They’re on the dopamine treadmill from life, and so they’re gonna be more, easy to succumb to the the phone that hits the dopamine or the drugs down the road. I think you talked about this with Brigham. Like, you put the rats in a group. Mhmm. And if they’re in community and they have ai that purpose of community, they’re not gonna choose the heroin water. Right? They’re gonna just choose the regular water.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:13:54
But that’s why the food is so interlinked with all of it. Like, I just look at the food we’re feeding our kids, and we’re we’re doing this because families feel strapped for time and money, you know, and that’s a societal issue. And we’ve also bought into this idea that, like, both parents sai be working all the time to have for women to have any value in society, which is insane, and forgotten that parenting is the most precious incredible act we possibly could do, I think, as humans and raising healthy, strong, critical thinking people.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:14:21
But, like, because of all of these forces, we are just giving food to our families that is literally dead. Ultra processed food is dead food. Like, the second people don’t really understand this. Doctors certainly don’t. The second food comes out of the earth or is killed if it’s an animal. Like, it starts degrading.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:14:36
That’s just what happens. And the food has tens of thousands of molecular components in it that work miraculously with our cells to generate health. And ai now, the average piece of food I mean, 67% of our calories are ultra processed food, totally dead, totally stripped of all those miraculous nutrients.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:14:54
And the average piece of fresh food is traveling 1500 miles from the soil to our plates and is usually out of the ground for weeks. So we are literally eating dead food that has lost all of its magic that is god given for us to have cells that function properly. And all of this is tied in to all these cultural societal factors that are being, like, used against us to make us think that our priorities are basically just climbing the corporate ladder.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:15:19
It’s all interconnected. And meh, we need to just wake up and really focus on, like again, like, get back to the the core basics below all of this, above all of this, which is that our life is a miracle. It is a miracle that we are here, that you’re here, that I’m alive, that Cali’s alive, that we’re all here.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:15:39
It is so insane that we get to have this experience and privilege to be alive once and to have these finite number of days. And we’re squandering that because we’re distracted, and we are we are allowing ourselves to, live in fear when, in fact, we don’t need to have fear because we are these incredible, miraculous beings.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:16:03
And I think so that’s why I think just to we’re talking a lot about policy, and it’s really important. But I think it also like, a lot of this is gonna come down to us having a reckoning in our families and our communities with ourselves of, like, getting back to that higher level of, like, Jesus Christ.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:16:18
Like, we’re alive. This is insane. And this body is our temple. It’s our one home, and we’re destroying it. And that’s not the best idea.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:16:28
Like, we could actually be doing it differently. We could be honoring it, respecting it, letting it produce the energy it needs to produce to be able to reach our highest purpose in this one lifetime, and it’s not that complicated. And I don’t understand fully. I reflect on this every day with Saloni. Like, why are there dark? Why are there forces that don’t want that to happen?
Speaker: Casey Means
02:16:48
I don’t understand. I don’t know if it’s just money. Like because it’s big. Right? Like, everything we’re saying is not the direction we’re going in as a country, as a world. And, you know, I don’t I don’t understand that.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:17:03
It feels like we we have an opportunity to elevate consciousness here on this planet for future generations, and we’re choosing not to, but we could make a different choice today, all of us, by by by really digging deep into our spiritual, strength and and being bold right now.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:17:23
I think now is the moment. And it’s it’s above political. There are political tactics that I think can help bring it to fruition, but, fundamentally, it starts with us, each of us individually believing that this life is a miracle and fighting for it.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
02:17:35
Well said. I think we might sana end it right there because that was so perfect. Anything else?
Speaker: Calley Means
02:17:42
Thank you.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
02:17:43
Thank you. Thank you, guys. Listen, this message is so important. You guys laid it out so well, and I think people are waking up. I really do. And I hope that this being connected to Trump doesn’t put people off to the point where they’re not able to recognize that this is about all of us.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
02:18:00
It has nothing to do with political party. It has nothing to do with ideology. It’s just about being a human being and that money and that the pursuit of constant money from these corporations has created this diffusion of responsibility thing where each person inside that organization doesn’t feel responsible for the overall result.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
02:18:18
And that they’re not all bad people and we don’t there’s not demons running all these organizations. These speak they’re people that have been captured by a system that’s been captured and it’s all about money. And that’s why those people cheered when they found out that Ozempic was gonna be prescribed for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you very, very much.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
02:18:35
Please tell people, is there, obviously, your book, Good Energy, that’s available. Is there a way do you guys have a website where people could reach out to as well?
Speaker: Casey Means
02:18:46
Yeah. I’m at caseymeans.com. Sai have a weekly newsletter that examines all of these things. I’m also the cofounder of a company called Levels, which is part of this whole mission, which is to basically empower people. We have democratized access to continuous glucose monitors so that people can actually understand their own metabolic health because it’s the most important aspect of our health.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:19:05
And right now, that technology has been actually, by the health care system, been sequestered just to people who already have type 2 diabetes. And the vision of the company is to help people, before they get these diseases to understand how their diet and their lifestyle are affecting their metabolic health by using these totally available, not very expensive sensors and pairing it with intelligent software.
Speaker: Casey Means
02:19:24
So we’ve seen amazing things. People losing had people lose a £120 just by having awareness of what this disaster food is doing to our blood sugar. So levels.com, caseymeans.com, and then, of course, our book, Good Energy.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:19:37
And, I think the most important thing we can do today is steer our medical dollars to these root cause metabolic interventions ai exercise. We could do that right now with HSAs, FSAs, which is why I started truMed dotcom. Everyone listening should look at your HSA FSAs. You can go to truMed dotcom, figure out how to spend those that money if you qualify on real medicine.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:19:56
Like, we if we can get our dollars to real medicine and away from waiting to get sick for pharma, we can do some major things. And most people are doing their HSA contributions in in right now. In chronicdisease.org is something I set up. It just connects you with your member of congress with some scripts to talk about this. I do think if people are compelled we talked about the political.
Speaker: Calley Means
02:20:15
There’s a real spiritual level here. And I think I think getting a little bit more involved, just calling your member of congress for a couple minutes does make a difference, so I’d urge that in chronicdisease.org. Thank you.
Speaker: Joe Rogan
02:20:26
Thank you. Thank you both. Bye, everybody ai.
