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Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Jayter’s Ball, VC giveback, TikTok survey Podcast Episode Description
(0:00) Bestie intros!
(3:18) The science behind Hurricanes Helene and Milton
(14:59) The economics of intensifying natural disasters
(29:03) AlphaFold creators win Nobel Prize in Chemistry
(35:17) The Jayter’s Ball
(38:53) Google antitrust update: DOJ is going for a breakup
(53:32) VC giveback: CRV will return ~$275M of a $500M fund to LPs
(1:03:44) New TikTok survey shows increased usage as a news source
(1:15:26) Election update: Are polling problems causing a strategy shift for Kamala Harris?
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Referenced in the show:
https://allin.com/meetups
https://youtube.com/@allin
https://allin.com/tequila
https://allin.com
https://x.com/Ry_Bass/status/1844367980249178396
https://www.newsweek.com/hurricane-helene-update-economic-losses-damage-could-total-160-billion-1961240
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/blogs/enso/september-2024-enso-update-binge-watch
https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-024-01442-3
https://x.com/vkhosla/status/1844166857655533811
https://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/hrd_sub/sfury.html
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-03214-7
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-10-09/us-says-it-s-weighing-google-breakup-as-remedy-in-monopoly-case
https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rtKjE02hAh_k/v0
https://x.com/AOC/status/1844034727935988155
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/02/technology/crv-vc-fund-returning-money.html
https://www.axios.com/2023/03/03/founders-fund-slashes-vc-peter-thiel
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/17/more-americans-regularly-get-news-on-tiktok-especially-young-adults
https://www.pewresearch.org/data-labs/2024/10/08/who-u-s-adults-follow-on-tiktok
https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/russia-pays-criminals-to-sow-mayhem-in-europe-warns-u-k-spy-chief-21ab960c
https://x.com/iapolls2022/status/1844418916107341948
https://x.com/2waytvapp/status/1844803367740096811
https://x.com/DavidSacks/status/1829383729284067659
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Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Jayter’s Ball, VC giveback, TikTok survey Podcast Episode Top Keywords
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Jayter’s Ball, VC giveback, TikTok survey Podcast Episode Summary
In this episode of the All In podcast, the hosts discuss a variety of topics spanning technology, politics, and media. The episode begins with a shoutout to Podcast Ai, a startup that emerged from previous podcast episodes, and a mention of the upcoming 9th cohort of Founder University, a course for aspiring entrepreneurs.A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the influence of podcasts and social media on news consumption, particularly among young people. The hosts note that podcasts are often clipped and shared on platforms like TikTok, contributing to a vast amount of content that can be challenging to navigate. They argue that attempts to use this content for disinformation are difficult due to the sheer volume of material available.
The conversation also touches on the political landscape, with references to the upcoming election and the strategies of political figures like Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. The hosts discuss the impact of media appearances and the importance of delivering clear and concise messages to sway undecided voters.
Additionally, the episode highlights the potential for launching successful events or summits by tapping into passionate audiences, as well as the ongoing debate about the impact of AI on industries like SaaS.
Key actionable insights include the importance of leveraging existing content channels for influence, the need for clear communication in political campaigns, and the potential for entrepreneurs to capitalize on engaged communities. The recurring theme is the power of media and technology in shaping public perception and the opportunities it presents for both creators and consumers.
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Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Jayter’s Ball, VC giveback, TikTok survey Podcast Episode Transcript (Unedited)
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
00:00
Ai right, everybody. Welcome back to the number one science, politics, technology and business podcast in the world for 5 years running. We’re about to hit our 4th anniversary here. Episode 200 is coming up and a bunch of Lunatic fans are getting together. You can join them. Allin.com/meetups. Holy cow. We got the domain name. All in? Fantastic.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
00:22
Go to allin.com/meetups and, hey. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. We’re gonna do some sort of crazy event for the million ai party. We’re, like, 300,000 away, gentlemen. This is nuts. Can you imagine this thing made it to 200 episodes?
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
00:39
Wow. We have allin.com. How much did we spend on this? This is great, guys.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
00:42
I negotiated it. I got it. It took me 2 years, and I got a sick deal on it. I don’t even wanna say because Ai, you know, I don’t wanna change it, but,
Speaker: David Friedberg
00:53
about Don’t
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
00:53
sai. Don’t say. I’ll just say you bleep it out. I got it for or sai. And that’s a $1,000,000 domain, just so we all know. Ai letters in the dictionary. So good for branding.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:06
Good job, Jaycom.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:06
Thank
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:06
you, my friend.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:07
Yeah. Now we have allin.com/tequila.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:10
Oh, I love it. Exactly. Exactly. And you can yum yum. Yeah. I got you saxx.com, didn’t I? You have the domain name saxx.com. Yeah. Yeah. I negotiated that for you.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:18
Wow. We have all the way back to episode 1. This is incredible.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:22
Oh, the new website?
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:23
Yeah. This is great. Oh, can I
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:25
tell you I if I meh? Website?
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:28
Allin.com. Allin.com? That’s our website?
Speaker: David Sacks
01:31
It’s like this thing is real.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:32
Yeah. It’s like a real thing.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:34
After 4 years, we got our shit together. This looks great.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:36
Here we go. And I wanna give a shout out to Podcast Ai, one of our, remember those fake all in episodes? That became a startup, Podcast Ai, and they built our website for us. So shout out to the team over there. All ai, ladies, let’s move on. And, I ram, of course, your executive producer for ai and the moderator of the allheart podcast. And if I may, just a tiny plug.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:58
If you’re a founder, we are having our 9th cohort of Founder University. It’s a 12 week course I teach on starting companies. What are you
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
02:05
doing? Just spend It stops. It stops. I’m just
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
02:08
giving a plug for Founder University. I I I need to go plug in because
Speaker: David Friedberg
02:11
I wanna 1. Go to Arrow 1 and buy Super Gut Bars ai.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
02:16
You can pick them up this afternoon. Let your winners ride. Rain meh give it to ai. And it said we open sourced it to the fans, and they’ve just gone crazy with it.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
02:30
Love you, West Ice.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
02:31
Sweet of kin wah. I’m going all in. Speaking of that, your people use me in an ad, Freeburg. So don’t talk about plugs.
Speaker: David Sacks
02:40
A few weeks ago when I shouted out that Glue Ai was hiring engineers, we had, like, a 100 applications just from that.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
02:45
From Glue AI looking for engineers?
Speaker: David Sacks
02:47
Ai on the show. Yeah.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
02:49
For Glue Ai? Yeah. Right. And that’s awesome for Glue AI. And if you haven’t tried Supergut, Freeberg’s
Speaker: David Friedberg
02:55
team literally made an advertisement with
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
02:58
me talking about Supergut and didn’t tell me.
Speaker: David Sacks
03:01
And we’re still hiring. So
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
03:02
Okay. Well, there you have it. So go to founder dot university to apply for my 12 week program.
Speaker: David Sacks
03:06
Ram. Check out Gong.
Speaker: David Friedberg
03:07
I’m running a GoFundMe. A GoFundMe. Meh yeah. Go to GoFundMe ai playbook.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
03:12
For what? More Xanax to deal with your panic attacks? Ai. Let’s get started everybody. Enough of the shenanigans. Hurricane season is upon us as Freeberg have predicted Hurricane Milton made landfall on Wednesday evening along the west coast of Florida, as many of you know. It’s been downgraded.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
03:32
It arya as a category 5 potentially, then a category 3, and then it looks like it’s a category 1 now. So I guess these things are quite random. Leading up to Meh, though, 6,000,000 Floridians across 15 counties were ordered to evacuate. That’s a lot of people moving out, and it was a pretty powerful storm.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
03:51
It ripped off the roof of the Tropicana field in Tampa. So far, the death toll is at 4, but it’s expected to rise sadly. And, just 2 weeks ago, Hurricane Helene swept through 6 southern states, killing over 220 people tragically, devastating Western North Ai, and, entire towns were wiped out.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
04:12
These are, also, beyond the tragic human losses, are economically staggering in terms of the losses. AccuWeather estimating the total economic damage could be between 145 ai 160,000,000,000 from Saloni. And Moody estimates the property damage alone could be as high as 26,000,000,000. Tons to get into here. FEMA, Starlink, saving the day, tons of stuff.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
04:36
But Freeberg, back on episode 182, you predicted this would happen. What’s causing all this? And let’s just start with the science angle, I guess, before we get into the other political and insurance issues.
Speaker: David Friedberg
04:49
Well, I think if you’ll remember when we talked about this a couple months ago, the sea surface temperature was at kind of a record high in the Atlantic. And warm ocean temperatures ai, moist air up that evaporates. The warmer the air, the faster the evaporation, and that starts to cause the movement of the air which drives ultimately the hurricane, and then the hurricane sucks up more warm moist air from the ocean, and it creates a feedback loop.
Speaker: David Friedberg
05:17
So the more energy you have in the ocean, the more likely you are to accelerate wind forces in storms. And that’s why you get these massive hurricanes that suddenly form seemingly overnight and go like in the case of Helene, that hurricane went from a cap 2 to a cap 4 or a cap 5 in, like, 48 hours because of the energy that’s sort of and ai.
Speaker: David Friedberg
05:40
Here’s an interesting stat. 90% of the energy that we get from the sun is absorbed and stored in our oceans. The other kind of fact that’s playing into this, if you pull up that ai that Nature arya, and this is something that I think you guys may remember we talked about. So this was an article that came out, a paper, a science paper that came out a couple of months ago.
Speaker: David Friedberg
05:59
And in this paper, the scientists identified that removing sulfur dioxide from cargo ships that travel across the oceans is actually causing accelerated warming in the oceans. And the reason is that the sulfur dioxide forms cloud formations and those as they travel across the oceans. And those cloud formations reflect sunlight.
Speaker: David Friedberg
06:22
And in the absence of those cloud formations, that sunlight makes its way into the ocean, and you get more ocean warming. And by their estimation, removing sulfur dioxide, which causes acid rain, and that’s the reason it’s been pushed to be removed, and they started removing it in 2020, 2021 from cargo vessels.
Speaker: David Friedberg
06:42
By removing sulfur dioxide, we are now gonna see a doubling of the rate of warming of the oceans in the 20 twenties and going forward.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
06:51
Let me pause it there for a second just to make sure people understand what you’re saying. Emissions from cargo ships block sunlight, which then of course reduces the heat absorbed by the oceans. And so we’re now choosing between pollution of the air or overheating of the oceans. Am I correct in summarizing that?
Speaker: David Friedberg
07:10
That’s roughly it. And, that’s capital. Again?
Speaker: David Sacks
07:15
Sorry. I just misunderstood.
Speaker: David Friedberg
07:16
Dioxide Sulfur dioxide. Goes in yeah. That goes into the fuel of cargo vessels. And a couple of years ago, they started to implement these mandates that sulfur dioxide no longer be used in the fuel. As a result, when sulfur dioxide is emitted from these vessels, it goes into the atmosphere, and it actually triggers cloud formation.
Speaker: David Friedberg
07:36
So now you have these clouds that are forming. And Nick’s gonna pull up this image right now. Yeah. Here you can see that. So all of these cracks are these cargo vessels moving across the ocean. And as they move across the ocean, they create cloud cover.
Speaker: David Friedberg
07:48
That cloud cover actually reduces the warming in the ocean because it reflects sunlight. So now that sunlight energy gets absorbed into the ocean. So this is another driving force that some people are now speculating maybe accelerating the warming of the oceans that we’re seeing, which drives this extreme storm and and hurricane events.
Speaker: David Friedberg
08:06
And so this becomes a more frequent event. Now a lot of people
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
08:09
are also Can I ask
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
08:10
you a question? Does that mean that we’re mean reverting? Meaning, if we improve the quality of the fuel source that are used in shipping, doesn’t that then mean that we’re reverting back to what would have happened in the absence of these dirty fuel sources?
Speaker: David Friedberg
08:27
Yeah. So in addition
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
08:29
No. No. No. I’m asking I’m asking you the question. Is that true or not?
Speaker: David Friedberg
08:34
So, meh, we are no longer reflecting as much sunlight. And so for several decades
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
08:39
We had bad fuel sources.
Speaker: David Friedberg
08:40
We had artificial we had artificial cooling.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
08:42
We had an artificial cooling and now we take but that’s counter to the narrative of what we all think is happening.
Speaker: David Friedberg
08:50
Oh, well, the argument is that we’ve actually been warming the atmosphere, which we have been. We can see the data that shows that everywhere, all over the Earth, not just about sunlight coming in on the oceans and not just ocean warming, but the the atmosphere is warming. The planet is warming.
Speaker: David Friedberg
09:04
And so this is, by by blocking the sunlight above the oceans, we were artificially dampening that effect, and we were reducing the amount of heat energy that was getting into the oceans. So now by taking that away, we’re seeing the heat energy in the oceans accelerate, and now the oceans are getting meh, much warmer. Right.
Speaker: David Sacks
09:21
Much of that. Was good?
Speaker: David Friedberg
09:23
Turns out it was good.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
09:24
Paradox here is that it was creating a blocker for sunlight. And to your point, Chamath exactly. Ai, shouldn’t we just be going back to what was normal? But at the same time, in the same system, we had heated things up. So this is a multi factored system, that we’re dealing with, Freeburg.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
09:41
And I guess the takeaway from all of this is that we gotta be really careful with what we do with the environment. Right?
Speaker: David Friedberg
09:47
Well, I mean, let’s talk about economics. Right? So what how much real estate do you guys think is on the Florida coastline? What’s the real estate value?
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
09:56
Sorry, Friedberg. Can you just anchor this? Like, was it that it was supposed to be a category 5 ai now it’s a category 3 when it hit land?
Speaker: David Friedberg
10:03
Right. So what happens typically when storms hit land is they no longer have that hot ocean pumping energy back into the storm that keeps the feedback loop going. Mhmm.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
10:11
So
Speaker: David Friedberg
10:11
the storm cycle starts to break down. All hurricanes, when they hit land, they start to break apart. And so the category which measures the wind speed actually reduces. This is just a natural thing that happens. But this was a category 5 hurricane when it made landfall. I believe it was category 4.
Speaker: David Friedberg
10:28
So, you know, it was a massive hurricane shah approach.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
10:32
We should not dismiss it because my understanding was Helen was cat 4 when it, like, hit North Ai. But I read yesterday that
Speaker: David Friedberg
10:42
What happened, yeah, what happened with Helene was it was cat 4.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
10:45
Is cat 3 when it hit Tampa or something. Is that not ai?
Speaker: David Friedberg
10:48
Yeah. Sai that’s right. But what happened when Helene hit North Carolina, it was not a cat 4. What happened is as that storm moved inland, it hit the the mountains. And the first mountains it hit are on western North Carolina. That area is elevated. There’s mountains there. So when a heavy hot storm runs into cold mountains, all the moisture dumps out.
Speaker: David Friedberg
11:09
It’s like it runs into it, and suddenly everything precipitates out of that storm. And that’s why some parts of Western North Carolina got, like, 18 some high some people meh as high as 30 inches of rainfall in a couple of hours. So this insane dumping happens when that hot air hits cold hits a cold region, and suddenly everything all that warm moisture precipitates out and dumps to the ground.
Speaker: David Friedberg
11:29
So it ran into a mountain. It’s effectively why everything fell out of North Carolina.
Speaker: David Sacks
11:33
Wait. Wait. So you’re saying that it wasn’t, Democrats who basically,
Speaker: David Friedberg
11:37
Right. I believe it’s Zach. Who’s Zach? Let me ask Who did it? Zach.
Speaker: David Sacks
11:43
Zach. Nancy Pelosi cast a spell or something. And Yeah.
Speaker: David Friedberg
11:45
Well, isn’t there a lot of geoengineering conspiracy theories, going on in your cohort? I mean, what’s your I don’t think so.
Speaker: David Sacks
11:52
But Vinod wants us to be very clear that we need to we need to stop all of this disinformation that somehow democrats are behind that storm.
Speaker: David Friedberg
12:01
Well, there are
Speaker: David Sacks
12:01
a lot of assure everyone that there was just precipitation.
Speaker: David Friedberg
12:04
Ai a ton of, lazyoengineering being run by government agencies to drive these people.
Speaker: David Sacks
12:10
Aren’t taking that seriously.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
12:12
Well, I mean, the the origin of this though, Friberg, is people have done experiments for decades on trying to control the weather or, you know, alter the weather. And and they’re doing that in the Middle East by seeding clouds and creating more rain. We saw that with the Dubai floods.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
12:27
They said that that might have been caused by over seeding of clouds, which they’re doing there. And then there have been experiments just to, you know, for the crazy laser people conspiracy, they’re they’re a Sana X. There actually have been experiments with lasers, you know, being shot into hurricanes and storms. Correct?
Speaker: David Friedberg
12:47
Are you Alex Jones? Is that what we’re doing?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
12:49
Well, no.
Speaker: David Friedberg
12:50
We’re not saying Ai Jones vessel?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
12:51
I’m just saying that’s the origin of where people are ai building on this. There have been
Speaker: David Friedberg
12:55
a meh Okay. So so let’s just talk about the the hurricane, the amounts I’m teeing it up for
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
12:59
you to debunk it is what I’m doing here. Here.
Speaker: David Friedberg
13:00
Yeah. Putting particulates in clouds to accelerate precipitation is I mean, we’ve done that for a 100 years. You know, you can do you can increase the precipitation rate when there’s already clouds that have formed, but that has nothing to do with creating 200 mile an hour wind speed.
Speaker: David Friedberg
13:16
That requires an extraordinary amount of energy. All of this energy, the the oceans are like giant batteries. And when a hurricane gets going, that battery is accelerating the hurricane, and the hurricane sucks up more power from the battery, and it creates this incredibly dynamical system.
Speaker: David Friedberg
13:31
There is no human created energy system that can force form a hurricane. A hurricane is an extraordinarily powerful natural phenomenon that arises from the amount of energy that can come out of very, very, very hot oceans, relatively speaking. So, you know, that’s really where these hurricanes are coming from.
Speaker: David Friedberg
13:47
Now they’re gonna be more frequent if the ocean temperatures remain elevated as they seem to be and continue to be elevated. And this can be a function of, generally, the temperatures warming on earth, generally the removal of sulfur dioxide, generally these El Nino, La Nina cycles.
Speaker: David Friedberg
14:02
There’s a lot of factors, but it seems to be the case that we are having a very significant trend of continuously warmer oceans. And those continuously warmer oceans means that we’re gonna have what used to be called a 1 in 500 year storm, which is what Asheville is being turned at, 1 in 500 year.
Speaker: David Friedberg
14:18
These sorts of storm events can happen every couple years. And we’re now looking at 1 in 100 year events happening every 2 to 3 years in the United States with the, the hurricane activity that we’ve been seeing.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
14:28
I think a lot of the conspiracy theories are built on actual experiments that happened. This one, Project Storm Fury, I’m sure you know about, was to try to modify hurricanes by putting in some chemicals that would, freeze them and dull them. So they’re they’re kind of dulling on this.
Speaker: David Friedberg
14:44
Break it apart.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
14:45
Yeah. Break it apart. So, you know, there there there have been experiments here with altering weather, altering hurricanes, but that doesn’t mean it’s Putin, Pelosi, or, you know, the aluminum.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
14:56
Sai let’s get let’s get back to brass tacks. So we’ll
Speaker: David Friedberg
14:58
let’s talk about the economics. So there’s there’s 500,000,000,000 to a $1,000,000,000,000 of real estate value on the Florida coastline. And what used to be a 1 in a 100 year event, the average Florida homeowner historically has been paying about 1% of the real estate value in insurance.
Speaker: David Friedberg
15:11
So now if your real estate is likely to be wiped out one out of every 20 years instead of one out of every 500 years, the cost of insurance gets to the point that it is untenable for most people to pay for their insurance. Florida has a state backed reinsurance provider called the Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund.
Speaker: David Friedberg
15:31
And this fund issues debt to meet its coverage demands because it reinsures insurance companies in order to in incentivize them to come into the state and underwrite homeowners insurance.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
15:41
You should explain the loop here, which is you go and get a mortgage. The bank says you need to get insurance if I’m gonna lend you the money to buy the home. So then a bunch of insurers need to decide that they’re willing to underwrite that area. And then when they give you that insurance, they then wanna lay that risk off and go to reinsure. Is that the cycle?
Speaker: David Friedberg
16:01
That’s right. And what’s happening is they would normally underwrite that risk. They would say this is gonna cost you’re gonna lose the value of your home every 100 years or every 200 years. But now the models are showing because of the frequency of these sorts of hurricane events and the severity of the hurricane events that maybe you’ll lose the value of your home once every 20 years or once every 30 years.
Speaker: David Friedberg
16:23
And no consumer is going to be willing or able to pay that much for the insurance on their home. So the state, over the last several years, has had to step in and effectively subsidize the insurance. And now the state reinsurance vehicle only has statutory liability maximum of $17,000,000,000 in a single hurricane season.
Speaker: David Friedberg
16:44
Now I think they got lucky with Milton today, but some were estimating that the Milton losses were gonna be in excess of a 100,000,000,000 bigger than Katrina. It’s ai, as of this morning, the reinsurance, websites are all saying it’s probably a 40 to $50,000,000,000 loss event, which still exceeds the state’s reinsurance capacity.
Speaker: David Friedberg
17:01
So you can kinda think about Florida state’s reinsurance thing being effectively bankrupt. It doesn’t really have the capacity to underwrite the insurance anymore. So the real question for everyone is, is the federal government gonna have to step in and start to support the price of homes?
Speaker: David Friedberg
17:15
Because if they don’t
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
17:16
Well, it’s a terrible precedent to set because if you do it for Florida, then you’ll have to do it in Texas and Louisiana and Mississippi.
Speaker: David Friedberg
17:24
With ai. With wildfire.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
17:25
Fires in Arizona. There’s there and Texas. There’s gonna be no way to create a clear demarcation of who gets a bailout and who doesn’t, which which will mean that everybody will get a bailout or nobody gets a bailout.
Speaker: David Friedberg
17:37
That’s right.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
17:37
And if everybody gets a bailout and if you think about how systematically unpredictable, at least in the southern states the weather is, you’re gonna be talking 100 of 1,000,000,000 of dollars a year probably.
Speaker: David Friedberg
17:48
The total value of all mortgages and home homeowner mortgages in Florida is $454,000,000,000. And those people typically have, you know, a debt to equity ratio probably on the 50 to 80% range. Mhmm. So if the value of your home dips by 25% because everyone starts selling their homes, leaving Florida, or they can’t get insurance, then the people that live in Florida, most of them have their net worth tied up in their home, are gonna see their personal net worth wiped out or cut in half.
Speaker: David Friedberg
18:14
So it’s not just an economic problem. It’s a social problem that now there are so many people that have put their entire net worth into their home. The value of their home is written to a point that it no longer makes sense given the frequency at which homes are gonna get destroyed.
Speaker: David Friedberg
18:26
That And
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
18:27
That’s probably the reason why they’ll have to do it because they’ll Exactly. But then that calculation will have to happen for every single homeowner in every single state where this is a this is an issue.
Speaker: David Sacks
18:38
Yeah. Wait. Freebear, are you saying the entire Florida coastline is no longer economically viable?
Speaker: David Friedberg
18:43
No. It’s totally viable. It’s just the question is what are you willing to At what ai? At what price? Will you pay 5% of your home value for insurance every year? You know, will you pay 2%, 3%?
Speaker: David Sacks
18:54
If the expected life of a house is 20 years, then no. That’s not that’s not viable.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
19:00
It becomes very, very untenable.
Speaker: David Friedberg
19:02
Well, it used to be 1 in ai. You’re now it’s probably 1 in 15.
Speaker: David Sacks
19:05
Right? This apply to the entire coastline or just parts of it?
Speaker: David Friedberg
19:08
Well, I mean, you saw that the range at which these events can happen is all over the place. And the and the challenge is the events are getting more significant because of this warm ocean weather that we sai, this warm ocean temperature. So we’re seeing more
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
19:21
of this is that now people are building the first couple of floors in high rises in Miami and homes on stilts with concrete and with resistant, you know, saltwater resistant material. So there is a counter to this. So we might be looking at
Speaker: David Friedberg
19:35
An investment in climate resilience. That’s right.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
19:37
Yeah. So it ai actually be an opportunity to upgrade all these homes to resistant ones, using another set of technologies. But the bailout is really interesting too, Sachs, because Florida’s got a lot of electoral, college votes doesn’t it? Like Sai I hate to bring this back to politics but, you know, promising people bailouts is how these politicians seem to be getting votes these days.
Speaker: David Sacks
20:02
Yeah. But is anyone talking about a federal bailout? I mean, is that this is something you’re predicting.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
20:06
Freebrook is saying is that there’s a there’s a pretty obvious parade of parables here where the question will have to be answered one way or the other. Because if you only have a $17,000,000,000 reinsurance fund and there’s 50,000,000,000 of damage, somebody’s gonna have to come in and cover the gap.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
20:22
And if it’s the insurance companies, expect your insurance premiums to double or triple.
Speaker: David Friedberg
20:27
That’s right. And that’s what happened in California. And by the way, state state farm left a lot of California
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
20:31
most of the This is what I was gonna say. Most of these big insurance companies have already done the calculus to realize that these regions are no longer profitable enough to justify the downside risk.
Speaker: David Friedberg
20:41
That’s a
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
20:42
bigger problem. So then the the ones that are left are insolvent reinsurers or insurers that are just funding short term Arya because they know that the odds are they’re gonna get wiped out, so they’ll price gouge effectively. So, you know, a different example is that here where I live in Menlo Park, we’re not in a flood plain. We’re not in a fire region.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
21:01
None of that stuff. But in order for us to get home insurance, you have to now go through a risk assessment. And in our specific case, we were like, hey, what should we do with our roof? And they were like, you gotta take the roof off if you want home insurance. We’re like, well, home insurance is probably a good thing to have.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
21:18
Was it a wood shake roof on your home? It was
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
21:20
a beaut you saw our house. It’s a beautiful wood shake roof and we had to remove it. And the two choices were a $350,000 ai iron Composite materials. Yeah. Or or like 70 k for composite. And it’s like, this is insane. Yes. Yeah. The cost of insurance was just egregious in the absence of going in one anyways, we ended up getting the
Speaker: David Friedberg
21:42
For most homeowners, when the cost of insurance gets to a certain threshold, you don’t have budget for it. You can’t afford it. And so that’s a lot of why the insurers leave. They’ll underwrite anything at any price, but they just know that most consumers can’t afford it. Here’s some other interesting statistics, related but unrelated. In the early ai, the city of Phoenix, Arizona averaged 5 days a year of temperatures of a 110 degrees or warmer.
Speaker: David Friedberg
22:02
By the 20 tens, Phoenix averaged during the 20 tens, 27 days a year where the temperature was 1 10 or higher. Since 2021, Phoenix averaged
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
22:14
4 plus days.
Speaker: David Friedberg
22:15
42 days. And in 2024, it’s been 70 days sai far this year that the temperature is over a 110. So this is affecting and so there’s there’s increased risks in California with wildfires, increased risk with hurricane. There are a lot of these factors, and I have friends that work in reinsurance and in insurance markets.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
22:32
Even Even if you don’t get affected by a wildfire or disaster, when that that article was in the Wall Street Journal. It I think it said that, the number of average days above a 100 was ai a 100 something.
Speaker: David Friedberg
22:43
Yes. That’s right.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
22:44
And the profile they profiled this retired woman who is an insurance adjuster or something. And the whole point of the article was not that her her house was destroyed or at risk, but the cost of electricity has gone just absolutely sky high. Yeah. Even with solar panels, even with storage, you need to basically lean on the grid and the grid now just charges you an exorbitant amount of money.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
23:06
And so these, these folks were paying 1,000 of dollars a year. So if you imagine the, the trifecta, you have all of this climate risk that could destroy your home. You’re paying an enormous premium for home insurance, and then you’re paying an enormous premium for electricity from the mainline power utilities. It’s it’s not sustainable.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
23:26
Yeah. Yeah. And just for background, FEMA manages something called the NFIP, National Flood Insurance Plan, and it’s historically about 50% cheaper than private flood insurance. They have 4,700,000 active policies ai 1,300,000,000,000 in coverage, but they instituted a new risk assessment system and that caused rates to increase.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
23:49
And yeah, it’s, because of all this, the policies have decreased over the last couple of years, meaning less people have flood insurance at the same time that these things are getting worse. And so, yeah, this is a really tough issue. I wonder if this is an opportunity, Chamath.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
24:09
If you think about historically how insurance worked, it worked in communities where people would help each other out and do barn raising kind of events when somebody had a problem. So if we just put on our entrepreneurial hats here, if you look at the cost of insurance, if a 100 different people bryden the cost of their homes together, put money into some sort of platform like an Uber Airbnb marketplace, and there was some management structure here of self insurance because I know some people are doing self insurance for health care at their companies for this kind of thing.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
24:41
Do you think there’s gonna be a new business opportunity here? Well, that’s called
Speaker: David Friedberg
24:45
Arborist, Jason. It’s called a mutual. And those are like, a a good chunk of the industry are mutuals where it’s, the shareholders are the members and they all share the risk and the ownership. The problem is
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
24:57
those things work because you have broad geographic coverage. If you had to go just into Malibu and self insure, the rates would literally be the greater than the value of the home. Ai.
Speaker: David Friedberg
25:07
No one would pay into it. Sai you actually if you do proper underwriting, what’s happened in the last couple of years is all the reinsurance companies and all the insurance companies have had to reunderwrite the rates that they charge for insurance because the frequency of a disaster has gone up.
Speaker: David Friedberg
25:20
And the new price that they should be charging is so ai. It doesn’t matter how the capital structure is set up. It’s simply there’s there’s one big event that’s gonna cause a big wipeout for a large number.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
25:31
My personal belief is I think that the the real estate markets in some of these places arya, meaningfully mispriced. And specifically, what I mean is that they’re massively overpriced.
Speaker: David Friedberg
25:43
That’s right.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
25:44
Because I think when you actually account for the climate damage and the long term financial stability of the insurers and the reinsurers, I don’t think that many of the markets that have seen these crazy sky high bryden. I’ll name 2 to be specific. West Palm Beach and Malibu. So both ends of the coasts. These things just don’t make sense.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
26:08
And I think people view these things as investments, but on the West Coast, when you deal with things like soil erosion and other things, I think it’s a there’s a it’s a calamity waiting to happen. And I think on the East Coast, when you factor in the extreme weather conditions, even Jason, your comment about rebuilding these homes in a more foolproof way doesn’t solve it because it you won’t be able to rebuild the entire state.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
26:32
There’s a lot of people that just can’t afford it. There’s a lot of folks that will not have adequate coverage. So I just think these are disasters waiting to happen, unfortunately.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
26:44
Yeah. It it’s, and Sacks, there’s a movement right now. A lot of people, even of means, are renting their homes. And so in the real estate market, what are your thoughts on that? Just renting versus buying now becoming ai something that, you know, people in the in the top half of homeowners or potential homeowners are now electing to not own their home and rent.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
27:08
Have you been monitoring that?
Speaker: David Sacks
27:10
Say I hadn’t heard that. I mean, the the trend that I thought was happening was, say, you had these big funds ai BlackRock or whatever ai up huge numbers of homes and then running them to
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
27:21
Low end homes. Yeah.
Speaker: David Sacks
27:22
Low end or medium Yeah. You know, to families. I thought that’s what was going on. I hadn’t heard that at the high end of the range that people were Yeah.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
27:30
I mean, well, if you think about it, ai, there’s there seems to be a cap when you have a $10,000,000 home of what you can possibly rent it for. And it’s it’s the the the prices are now making more sense to keep more sense to keep your money in the market or in other places and then rent.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
27:45
I’m just here in Oregon.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
27:47
Are you long real estate in Florida or Vatsal California if you could, or do you treat them differently?
Speaker: David Friedberg
27:53
I think they’re different, but Florida is ai I mean, I don’t know how you do the math on I I just don’t know what you do on a $1,000,000,000,000 of real estate value with half a trillion of mortgages when you have real exposure on loss more frequently than 1 in a 100 years. They’re to your point, they need to be repriced.
Speaker: David Friedberg
28:14
And how do you re reprice those homes in the significant level that they need to be repriced without causing massive economic and social consequence? That’s what’s that’s what’s kind of, I think, challenging me in thinking about what’s the path here.
Speaker: David Sacks
28:26
So it’s a it’s a good thing that I sold my Miami place last year.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
28:30
Once again, Sax makes a great trade. Pretty ai.
Speaker: David Sacks
28:34
Well done,
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
28:34
Saxx. You tacked it again. Well done, Sai. Just ai
Speaker: David Sacks
28:40
I really love I love that house. Oh. It’s on the
Speaker: David Friedberg
28:43
Venetian Islands.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
28:44
Love that house. Where do you think I stayed when I was in town? Yeah. You’re so selfish. Shah lost the who lost the place to stay? I mean, the yacht access alone, being able to get out on the bay and get on a boat, the the skidoos, all this great stuff. Ai. Let’s, let’s keep the Freebird train going here. Huge news. AlphaFold creators just won a Nobel Prize in chemistry.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
29:06
2 members of Google’s DeepMind AI research team, Demis Hassabis and John Jumper, received this year’s Nobel Prize in chemistry. They both work for Google’s DeepMind, as you know. And Freeberg, again, all in getting there first, explained what AlphaFold was back on episode 14 in December of 2020. That was almost 4 years ago.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
29:31
Freeburg, maybe, you could explain
Speaker: David Friedberg
29:34
Did we did we predict that they would win the Nobel Ai at the time?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
29:37
I believe you did. We’ll go check the receipts using Well, hold on. I ai search engine.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
29:41
It was it became it became much more likely that they would win the Nobel after they won the breakthrough prize. I mean, just to just to point this out.
Speaker: David Friedberg
29:49
But Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
29:50
Shout out Yuri Milman.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
29:52
Shout out Yuri and Julia. And Julia. Because when those guys won that award for 2023 and you you heard the extent of what they’ve done, it was almost ai obvious that they were gonna win Nobel after the fact.
Speaker: David Friedberg
30:08
So I
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
30:09
think the really interesting thing is actually in this community, I think the breakthrough prize is actually meaningfully more relevant and a positive directional indicator to breakthrough ai.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
30:18
Well, it’s kinda like winning Sundance or Cannes. You win the Palme d’Or. You become a favorite to win at the Oscars, right, in the Academy Awards. So that’s actually interesting. The regional or more industry centric award could lead to the next one. So, Friberg, just explain to us why this is so important ai us on.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
30:35
Sai just think it’s much more rigorous than the Nobel. I think the Nobel can be a little bit gained, I think.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
30:40
Oh, interesting. Okay. What do you think, Friberg? Explain to the audience why this is important and and what’s transpired since we talked about it 4 years ago.
Speaker: David Friedberg
30:49
There’s been a long challenge in biochemistry on understanding or predicting or visualizing the three-dimensional structure of of proteins. Because meh, proteins are produced by long chains of amino acids, and those amino acids are ai of create like a bead beaded necklace, and then the the whole necklace collapses on itself in a very specific way.
Speaker: David Friedberg
31:14
And that three-dimensional molecule, that big chunky protein does something structurally, physically. And so trying to understand the shape of a protein is really hard. I mean, we’ve used kind of X-ray imaging systems to try and identify it and ai to build models to identify how does that, quote, protein folding work?
Speaker: David Friedberg
31:32
How do those amino acids collapse on each other to create that three-dimensional construct? And if I don’t know if you guys remember in the early 2000, there was a Stanford Folding at Home distributed computing project. Do you guys remember this?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
31:43
Yeah. It would use people’s machines and extra CPU ai the SETI at home project to
Speaker: David Friedberg
31:49
Precisely. Yeah. Do this thing. Right. Yeah. So it’s like it ran on the background of your computer. It used your CPU cycles when you weren’t using your computer, and it tried to model protein folding. And so this has been a a problem that folks have tried to tackle with compute for decades to figure out the 3 d structure.
Speaker: David Friedberg
32:04
This is so important because if we can identify the 3 d structure of proteins and we can predict them from the amino acid sequence, we can print out a sequence of amino acids to make a protein that does a specific thing for us. And that unlocks this ability for humans to create biomolecules that can do everything from binding cancer to breaking apart pollutants and plastics to, you know, creating entirely new molecules to running, in some cases, like what David Baker did at University of Washington, he shared the Nobel Prize, creating micromotors, mini motors ram proteins that he designed on a computer.
Speaker: David Friedberg
32:40
And so this becomes, I think, this great, like, big holy grail in ai, and the AlphaFold project at at DeepMind inside of Google solved this problem. And and ai the way, since since then, they’ve come out with AlphaFold 3.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
32:52
Yep.
Speaker: David Friedberg
32:53
They’ve launched a drug discovery company called Isomorphic Labs where they’re basically predicting molecules that will do specific things for a target indication, and then they use the AlphaFold models to actually design and develop those molecules. And there have been literally dozens of companies that have been started since DeepMind was published and probably several $1,000,000,000 of capital that’s gone into companies that are creating new drugs, creating new industrial biotech applications using this protein modeling capability that was unleashed with DeepMind a number of years ago.
Speaker: David Friedberg
33:25
So it really has transformed the industry. It’ll be a couple years before we see it transform the world, but, it’s it’s it’s an exciting kinda thing. Yeah.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
33:32
Not to, virtue signal here, but those are plus ai proteins now, FreeBird. They don’t like being called chunky. You’re calling plus size proteins.
Speaker: David Friedberg
33:39
Plus size proteins.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
33:40
Yes. One one really difficult technical question for you, FreeBird. Is there any way for you to take this amazing breakthrough, and make Sai interested in it? Is there any possible vector here for it to relate to Saxx and get him off his Blackberry right now. Blackberry. I think he’s playing chess with Theo, and JD Vance is watching them play chess. I think that’s what’s going on right now. It’s really hard.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
34:06
I mean, the poor audience here is watching Sax looking down. Alright. Let’s keep this train moving here. Enough of the shenanigans.
Speaker: David Friedberg
34:13
Anyway, congrats to the teams. The very Congrats that won the Nobel. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
34:17
it’s just great.
Speaker: David Friedberg
34:18
And and David Baker at the Baker Lab in University of Ai. David Bishop.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
34:21
Also a breakthrough prize winner. Yeah. What’s interesting to me is, like, these 2 Nobels, these guys, but also Jeffrey Hinton’s, you know, you’re really seeing now the convergence of the hard sciences and computer science
Speaker: David Friedberg
34:36
Totally.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
34:36
In a really meaningful way. And I think that that’s so interesting and cool.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
34:41
I think in the group chat, Chamath, you had an interesting, hey. Maybe there should be a computer science award for, you know, a Nobel computer science award. And,
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
34:50
I actually think it’s the opposite now, which is that it’s amazing to see folks using computers to improve our understanding of the natural sciences. And I think that that’s a really great place to be. So what Dennis and John and David are doing in the life sai is amazing. What Geoffrey Hinton, you know, did, you know, 30 40 years ago and 20 years ago in terms of training deep neural nets also really amazing.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
35:16
In related news computer based. Yeah. All computer based. And in related news, Benioff just nominated himself for excellence in CRM management. So congratulations to Benioff on nominating himself for a new What is that called? A string.
Speaker: David Sacks
35:29
Why are you talking Benioff?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
35:31
That’s just a stray.
Speaker: David Friedberg
35:32
The audience loves it. What did he do
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
35:34
wrong? It’s just a joke. It’s a joke. They’re just jokes.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
35:38
Have you not learned anything from a popular audience?
Speaker: David Friedberg
35:41
Ai the people that attacked you.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
35:42
It’s not an attack. It’s a joke. Benioff has done so much for philanthropy. Just ask him. If you
Speaker: David Friedberg
35:48
I don’t know. God. Dude, he’s
Speaker: David Sacks
35:50
doing the
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
35:51
best he can. He’s doing
Speaker: David Friedberg
35:51
a great job.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
35:52
That’s how I got in trouble with talking about
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
35:53
What are
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
35:54
you doing? Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker: David Friedberg
35:55
I don’t know. Do people have
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
35:56
a sense of humor about yourselves? Yeah.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
35:57
But it’s not even it’s not even funny if you had said something else.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
36:01
I mean okay. Give me a give me a funnier Nobel. Go ahead. Go ahead.
Speaker: David Friedberg
36:05
Runs a 300,000,000,000 market cap. Go ahead.
Speaker: David Sacks
36:07
He’s he’s chomping at the bitch to come back on the pod and explain why AI is not gonna disrupt SaaS.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
36:13
Really?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
36:14
Oh, Oh, we see he wants to be back on
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
36:15
the phone.
Speaker: David Sacks
36:15
Me. Meh wants to come on.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
36:17
We’ll check-in we’ll check-in in a $100,000,000,000 shah. He had his chance. That chance is closed.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
36:24
He shot a shot, and it did not land. That door was closed
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
36:27
when he insulted our guests about not being able to afford
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
36:30
the Disney costume. People,
Speaker: David Friedberg
36:32
boys. Oh my god.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
36:35
Now you’re piling on. Anybody coming to Dreamforce 2025? Okay. Let’s move on.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
36:40
Sorry. Anyways, leave Benny off alone, Jean. Leave.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
36:43
It’s ai, leave Britney alone, that famous meme. Leave Benny off alone.
Speaker: David Sacks
36:49
Ai how many new enemies do you wanna create?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
36:52
Ai they’re just jokes, people. They’re just jokes.
Speaker: David Sacks
36:56
Just when you thought he was running out of feuds. You know?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
37:00
Yeah. I’m not too worried with anybody. I’m making stupid jokes. The reason people tune in is because you laugh and learn.
Speaker: David Sacks
37:06
Did you guys see that that tweet that, somebody suggested throwing a conference with all of J Cow’s haters?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
37:13
Jason Khan. J Khan. Jaters Jaters convention.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
37:20
What is it called? Jaters? Jaters. Yeah.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
37:23
J haters. Yeah. Jaders and haters. Jaders. Yeah. I’d like to shout out my jaders. They’re just jokes, folks. I I love you, Mark. I’m penny off. Come on the pod, Zach.
Speaker: David Sacks
37:35
I think somebody could launch a successful summit just doing that. It’s like a it’s like a ready made audience, and they’re clearly passionate. They’re clearly passionate.
Speaker: David Friedberg
37:44
All the Ai founders will be there.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
37:46
Keynote day 1, Palmer Lucky. Keynote day 2, David Sachs.
Speaker: David Sacks
37:54
I think it would rival the All In Summit in terms of the passion of the fans.
Speaker: David Friedberg
37:57
All 3 of us would show up. K.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
37:58
Cal would be so devastated. Keynote wise.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
38:01
Are you kidding me? Earning. It’s hilarious. Wait.
Speaker: David Friedberg
38:04
I have to
Speaker: David Sacks
38:05
I have to keep
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
38:05
it. Graham.
Speaker: David Friedberg
38:07
Oh.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
38:07
Benioff. I Ai like Benioff. What? I don’t I’m ai make any of you through Benioff. You just gotta have a sense of humor.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
38:14
Oh my god.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
38:14
Megan Kelly. Zuckerberg. Oh, yeah. Megan Ai. Jack, Megan Kelly, and farmer Lucky.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
38:20
Wait. Does Ai hate you too? Why does Zach hate
Speaker: David Sacks
38:22
Oh my god. J. Cal was just so
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
38:24
I was brutal to Zach in the early days.
Speaker: David Sacks
38:26
Vatsal. Yeah.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
38:26
Why? Well, he just anyway, we’ll get to it later.
Speaker: David Sacks
38:29
But you’re right. Like, you know, throwing a conference for j haters would just be
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
38:32
That’s, like, a
Speaker: David Friedberg
38:33
ready made Jaters. Jaters.
Speaker: David Sacks
38:35
That is an underserved and passionate demographic.
Speaker: David Friedberg
38:38
It would be bigger than that. Demographic. Just just look at Saxe’s replies. Community with shared values.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
38:44
Hey, man. If I can get 25% of those tickets south, I’m in. Let’s go. Alright. Let’s keep the train moving here. We have an update on the DOJ’s antitrust suit with Google. Looks like they’re going for the breakup as Chamath predicted. You remember the Bloomberg report back in August.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
39:04
We covered it in episode ai. Google was found liable for maintaining a monopoly in search and digital ads. Now the DOJ is working on the remedy. Right? Okay.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
39:15
They’re guilty, so now comes time for the remedy. And the DOJ is quote, this is from Bloomberg, considering asking a federal judge to force Google to sell off parts of its business. And according to this filing, the DOJ is specifically considering structural remedies that would prevent Google from using products such as Chrome, Google Play, that’s the app store on Android, and Android vatsal, to advantage Google search.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
39:42
32 page document released by the DOJ lays out several options, and, we’ll go through them and talk about them here. The obvious one, terminating Google’s exclusive agreements with hardware companies like Apple. They’re the default search engine there for 30 or 40,000,000,000 a year. Samsung, that’s a layup.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
39:59
Separating Chrome and Android, my God, that would be drastic ripping that out of the Google ecosystem, prohibiting certain kinds of data tracking. That’s a layup as well. Or other behavioral and structural changes for the company. I’m going to pause there, Friedberg, and get your thoughts on this as a former Googler and you interviewed Sergei at the summit, but I don’t think we talked to Sergei about this because obviously he would not be able to talk about it.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
40:24
So what are your thoughts here on a potential remedy?
Speaker: David Friedberg
40:27
Ai think we’ve talked about this. I I mean, look, I’ve shared in the past my belief that companies that are big, that have excess capital, that then invest that excess capital in r and d can be a net benefit for all of us. Look at Bell Labs. Bell Labs had a monopoly on through their association with AT and T, with developing radar, microwave, deep transistor, integrated circuitry, information theory, everything that is the basis of the Internet, computing, even nuclear technology, and so on, it’s because they had this extraordinary capital flow from the scale of the business, and they were able to invest in r and d.
Speaker: David Friedberg
41:09
Similarly, Google acquired and invested for many, many years in DeepMind. And we just talked about how Demos and team won the, the Nobel Ai for the work that they did. And they, by the way, published the protein structure for 200,000,000 proteins for free out of that service.
Speaker: David Friedberg
41:26
I just wanna zoom out for a minute and talk about the fact that this isn’t about, you know, whether Google has a monopoly in search that prohibits competition or in ads that prohibits competition. But are do is it really worth penalizing any company that’s big? Particularly, do we lose the benefit of those big companies investing in technology that pushes us forward?
Speaker: David Friedberg
41:49
Google also invested in Waymo for years years years, which arguably spurned and drove investment from many other companies in self driving technology. And if Google hadn’t done that, would self driving have taken off the way it did? I don’t know. Same with Kitty Hawk and Larry’s investment in eVTOLs, and that that’s spawned a lot of eVTOL investing.
Speaker: David Friedberg
42:08
And, similarly, if you think about Amazon and their investment in AWS where they were burning cash for many years, that turned out to spawn arguably a lot of, interest and investment in cloud. And so I I don’t think that these big companies are bad just because they’re big.
Speaker: David Friedberg
42:23
I think we should take apart the monopolistic antitrust actions and behaviors that they take and then identify ways to remedy those behaviors versus just saying anyone or anything that’s big should be taken apart because there is a tremendous benefit to be gained from the r and d dollars that they all put into things that, you know, move the whole industry forward.
Speaker: David Friedberg
42:43
And I think that leadership’s important to need it. Otherwise, if you got a bunch of start ups that are trying to get $10,000,000 checks from VCs, I’m not sure they’re gonna build a Waymo, and I’m not sure they’re gonna build, Amazon Cloud, and I’m not sure they’re gonna build a DeepMind, you know, protein folding company and publish it for free.
Speaker: David Friedberg
42:59
So I don’t know. That’s just my point of view on
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
43:01
Chamath, what’s the, likely outcome here?
Speaker: David Friedberg
43:03
Think about this stuff.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
43:04
Chamath, you kinda know this one. Pretty good with these predictions. Tell us, we’ll be sitting here 5 years from now, what will have occurred?
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
43:14
Unfortunately, not what Friberg just said. It’ll be the opposite. There’ll be some form of forced remedy. I’m sympathetic to Friberg’s argument. I don’t think that it’s really a good thing in the end because I do think there are some incredible examples of Google specifically reinvesting in a way that’s really added value in the world.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
43:35
Ai think the problem though is that the technology innovation cycle has gotten too elongated. So you’re not seeing creative destruction be the natural force that keeps all of these companies in their own swim lanes. And so they are allowed to become too amorphous and too profitable, and I think it becomes an obvious target for politicians.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
44:04
I think that’s a really good observation there about the timeline of this. Because if you look at this, I have started now, and I know many people arya starting their search journey on Claude and ChatGPT every day. I’m doing 30, 40, 50 queries and follow ups per day. I force my entire team to do that as well.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
44:25
And so just as there’s an actual viable competitor to Google, this action has reached, I don’t know, the halfway mark. This is sana to wind up being completely meaningless, Sai, if ChatGPT does build a viable competitor or coexister that siphons off search. Ram I wrong here?
Speaker: David Sacks
44:48
Well, it is ironic that frequently the government takes actions on these monopolies at precisely the moment they’re subject to the greatest disruption.
Speaker: David Friedberg
44:56
Totally.
Speaker: David Sacks
44:56
The same thing happened with Microsoft in a way, but it was still a good thing that the government acted when it did because there was a risk of Microsoft porting over its desktop monopoly into this new era, the Internet. I think it’s still a good thing to be looking at breaking up Google. I actually think that would be good.
Speaker: David Sacks
45:11
At the end of the day, it might be good for shareholders. This thing should be probably 3 separate companies like we’ve talked about in our previous show. But it is true that Google is facing the most existential threat to its search monopoly, and it is a monopoly, in the form of OpenAI at this point in time.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
45:30
I have one final thought here and piece of advice for Sergei and the team over there and that ai I told Sergei directly, they have to get good at making apps. To go use ChatJPT, you take out the app, and it’s a wonderful, beautiful experience. When you go try to figure out how to use Gemini, it’s like shoehorned into search results, and then it’s like some subdomain. That’s why people aren’t using it.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
45:52
Go ai the domain in chat.com and make a dedicated app just for Ai.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
45:57
You’re a 100%
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
45:58
right. Kick ass.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
45:59
You’re a 100% right. Suck at apps. We said this when when you asked about the bear case of OpenAI. If the DOJ is gonna go after Google and by the way, the interesting thing, Jason, and I mentioned this to you is that in the same article that floated the trial balloon about this remedy of a Google breakup, the headline in the Wall Street Journal, which I think was very purposeful, said Google and Meta.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
46:25
Mhmm. So I think that they if given their druthers, they being the powers that be at Washington, will probably wanna take a run at both of these companies. They’ll start with the one that they think they can disassemble the quickest, and then they’ll go to Meta afterwards. My strong advice to Meta and Google is if this is gonna happen, you gotta go out kicking and punching and fighting and scratching.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
46:55
And I think the most obvious thing is what you just said, Jason, which is you are the front door to the Internet. And there is this completely new emergent technology. And where is the same response to chat gpt that you had to x or that you had to Snapchat or that you had to TikTok.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
47:17
Because if it’s gonna happen, it’s gonna happen, and then you might as well just go for it. Yeah. Build the apps, make them kick ass, make the chat gpt alternative, and get it to billions of people yesterday. That would be the most logical game theory thing to do to build up a pool of users that you will rely on when the DOJ tries to come with some consent decree or whatnot.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
47:47
So this is the time to build up the assets now as aggressively as possible.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
47:52
Yeah. And, selling YouTube would be the ultimate. I know that the ad networks you pointed out for Eberhard are connected. But if they distributed if they spun
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
48:01
out I’ll give you I’ll give you something about the ad thing.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
48:03
Can you imagine $500,000,000,000 going into Google’s coffers in YouTube shares? They would have 500,000,000,000 in cash, Chama.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
48:13
I had a I talked to a company. He the CEO of a of a public consumer facing company, and this was in the context of some 80, 90 stuff. And he said that he and and 2 other CEOs, the 3 of them you guys would all know, these are very big companies. The 3 of them combined are particularly large.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
48:34
And they said they’ve had multiyear road maps to try to build a reasonable set of tools in ai, and it’s been impossible. And partly why is that the the tools that the big folks offer are so good that they just cannibalize and run over the entire market. And so what they hear from CMOs is we would love to advertise on your company, your site, but a, your tools are substandard, and b, even though your inventory is cheaper, you just don’t give us the same scale and breadth that we get in these other big places.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
49:07
I’m not saying that that’s either right or wrong, but through the lens of probably what the DOJ sees is when a lot of these folks write letters to them talking about what they’re going through, this is what they’re saying. And I suspect that if you could actually have a more fragmented market in some of these key markets, it’s gonna be a little bit easier for these smaller companies to have a business.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
49:30
Yeah. Now you could say, well, tough luck. You tried and you couldn’t build it. I get that argument. And I and I think that that at some point that is legitimate, but the problem is if you’re public and you’re trying to make your company profitable, what do your engineers wanna work on?
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
49:43
They wanna work on consumer facing forward features. And so what always falls off the list? It’s the stuff at the end. The ad tech. Yeah.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
49:49
And so anyways, it’s this recursive negative loop that a lot of these other companies are in in the shadow of these big companies that I think is gonna cause the DOJ to try to do something.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
49:59
You know, this is a great setup for m and a. It’s a great setup for IPOs, starting to look like and this is a multi administration case that’s been going. Right? I think that started under Trump, went into Biden, and is now sana continue on to Trump or or Harris. So what are your thoughts here, Sachs?
Speaker: David Sacks
50:19
Well, in terms of the political environment for m and a next year?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
50:21
Yeah.
Speaker: David Sacks
50:22
Yeah. I mean so, obviously, it depends which administration’s in power. A lot of Democrats, you know, prominent Democrats in tech ai Mark Hubert or Reid Hoffman have been making the case that if Kamala is president, she’s gonna be much more hospitable and friendly towards m and a, and they’ve been saying explicitly that they want Lena Khan fired.
Speaker: David Sacks
50:42
Well, in response to that, AOC just came out and said, we’re gonna have a throwdown if you do that. So I don’t Let’s go. Ai would not expect a substantial difference or improvement in the in the regulatory permissiveness, towards m and a if, if we have a democratic administration.
Speaker: David Sacks
51:01
If that if you have Trump in office next year, I think that there there will be an opening up of of m and a. I think the Republicans have their own issues with big tech, but those issues tend to revolve around censorship and bias and search results and LLMs, things like that as opposed to bigness per se.
Speaker: David Sacks
51:21
So I think it will be easier to get m and a done next year if you have a Republican administration.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
51:26
Absolutely. I am going to be printing money in a Trump administration. It is going to be obscene how many m and a deals and IPOs are gonna occur. There is such a huge backlog. But I do think there I do think the Democrats wanna get this moving as well. And I I was talking to Reid Hoffman, and you and Peter Thiel in the Illuminati meeting, and, they voted a ai to 2 to replace Lina Khan in the Illuminati meeting.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
51:51
Chhamak, why didn’t you make the Illuminati meeting last week? I’m shocked that you weren’t there.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
51:55
I’m not I’m not invited to that.
Speaker: David Sacks
51:57
People don’t know that you’re being facetious, Jason.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
52:00
Oh, really? They don’t understand that I’m joking about the Illuminati?
Speaker: David Sacks
52:03
They often don’t. They often don’t.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
52:05
Well, I’m sorry to the low IQ listeners who don’t know that the Illuminati is not real.
Speaker: David Friedberg
52:11
Oh, now now you’re insulting the audience?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
52:12
No. I’m insulting the ones who believe there’s an Illuminati.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
52:16
He’s trying to sell tickets to the
Speaker: David Friedberg
52:17
Jader’s ai.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
52:21
But Buck Nasty, Zuck Nasty. Jay Cloud is the biggest hater in the tech industry. You ever see the Haters Ball, Sachs? I have not seen that. Chapelsha? No. Shamoff, it looks like between the time we mentioned it on the pod, it’s it’s actually happening. Here it is. The Jader’s Ball is happening. There it is.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
52:41
Lena Khan, David Sachs. Wait.
Speaker: David Sacks
52:43
Why am I there?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
52:45
Go ahead. Because you’re a headliner. You’re you were organizing.
Speaker: David Friedberg
52:47
I think you’re the host.
Speaker: David Sacks
52:47
I’m gonna be a keynote? You’re the MC. I’m the I’m okay. Wow. I’m the MC.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
52:53
There look. There’s there’s Zuck Nasty, and there’s Meh Lucky. You guys don’t know this bit from Chappelle? The Haters Ball from Chappelle. Oh my god. It’s the funniest bit on Chappelle’s Show. It it’s literally I
Speaker: David Sacks
53:06
mean, I saw a lot of Chappelle’s Show. I don’t I don’t remember that long.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
53:09
Just show the real picture, Nick. On The Chappelle Shah, they have all of these pimps who have a yearly convention, which is their player haters wall.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
53:18
I’ve seen this. I’ve seen it.
Speaker: David Friedberg
53:19
And all
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
53:20
they do is sit there with, like, a toothpick in, and they hate on each other and make fun of each other.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
53:24
I’ve seen this.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
53:25
It is the funniest bit in the history of The Chappell Show. Alright. Let’s keep the train moving here. CRB is giving back or maybe not calling down 275,000,000 from their LPs. Charles River Venture, shout out to my pal, George Zachary, and Greek Brother from CRB. Historically, they invest in early stage startups. They did DoorDash, Airtable, Twitter back in the day.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
53:46
They had 2 funds that they raised back in 2022, $1,000,000,000 early stage fund and a 500,000,000 growth fund. Sometimes people call that an opportunity fund or a select fund. The New York Times reported CRV is sana to give back about half of that 275,000,000 to investors or technically probably not call it down.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
54:05
The 4 partners at CRV gave an exclusive to the New York Ai, so either getting ahead of this story or maybe, you know, who knows what the motivation here is. But the reason they gave is that the market conditions for late stage have worsened dramatically and that the valuations are still too high.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
54:21
Yes, the rent is too high And that there aren’t any exit options as we just talked about with the administration, no IPOs, no M and A, and that VC map doesn’t work in the late stage. So I’ll just stop there. There’s a bunch of other notes here. Obviously, this isn’t the first time this has happened.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
54:38
I think Founders Fund cut the size of its 8th fund in half ram 1,800,000,000 to 900,000,000. They didn’t actually give the capital back to VCs like they’re saying CRV did here. Again, I’m not certain if that’s what’s happened or not. They put the extra 900,000,000 into its 9th fund if they decide to raise that, which I’m assuming Founders Fund will.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
54:56
Chamath, do you have any thoughts on this I I guess trend? We we got 2 stories here.
Speaker: David Friedberg
55:02
So I don’t know Peter Thiel
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
55:03
Peter Thiel did this, and he gave back quite a large piece of his fund a couple of years ago, and then CRV just did it. I I wanna make sure I get the citation right. I think it was Thomas Lafont at GoTo who said this. It was really powerful. It made a huge impression on me, which is that the Nasdaq creates about $800,000,000,000 of enterprise value a year.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
55:25
And he brought that up in the context of private markets have to exceed that in order for it to be a real viable alternative to just owning public indices. And so if you factor in illiquidity risk and the duration, you have to probably generate, I don’t know, a trillion, $1,200,000,000,000 of enterprise value in private tech every year.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
55:48
That just seems like it’s really hard to do. Where is all of that value getting created? So I think that venture needs to go through a phase where it re rationalizes. You know, this is sort of what I said at David’s LP Day, which is Ai think that LPs have made a couple of very big mistakes.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
56:05
And I think the biggest mistake that they’ve made is by smearing too much money across too many general partners. And I think if you had to redo it, a, it’s probably a lot less money in vatsal, but, b, and the example I gave there was instead of giving $50,000,000 to Kraft and $10,000,000 to somebody else, you’re better off giving $60,000,000 to Kraft and not even having that other GP because that GP makes everybody’s life complicated.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
56:32
They overpay. They mispay. They’re probably not supposed to be a GP in the first place. And so they force returns down. And then when you contrast that again to a public market that is systematically creating $800,000,000,000 of enterprise value a year, this is an incredibly tough game and it’s getting much, much harder.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
56:52
Sai I think that if you just take a step back, these are the right things to do because you’re much better off having a smaller pool of capital that you can concentrate into the things that matter. You’re probably better off having smaller teams versus bigger teams. And you’re probably better off trying to forge LP relationships where they’re not doing 50 fund investments because it just makes the entire industry lag public liquid alternatives.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
57:22
And I think that that’s just not good.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
57:23
Peanut butter getting spread a little bit than there. Any thoughts, Friberg on this trend, if we can call it that? Or is this ai maybe they’re reacting right as the market is changing and valuations are getting more reasonable and the exit opportunities are getting more reasonable?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
57:40
It seems like this was the right reaction 2 years ago, but maybe it’s the wrong reaction now. What do you think, Friedberg?
Speaker: David Friedberg
57:46
For a venture firm to return capital, they need to have at least 1 or 2 big winners. And so if that winner needs to be a 10 x or 20 x or 30 x of the fund because most of the investments in the fund are not going to work, you need to be able to enter at a reasonable ai, and there needs to be enough opportunity relative to the capital trying to invest in that opportunity out there for it to make sense.
Speaker: David Friedberg
58:12
So in a market where there is excess venture capital, where valuations are at a premium, and where you don’t see the exit path, the m and a or the IPO events that make sense that you can actually realize that model, you should take less capital and make fewer, surer investments.
Speaker: David Friedberg
58:30
And I think that that’s what some folks have realized. They don’t wanna be chasing, you know, highly valued inflated opportunities, and they don’t wanna be putting capital into tier b or tier c opportunities just for the sake of deploying capital. This is a really interesting moment where you can kind of see who are the the right folks in terms of thinking long term in Silicon Valley, long term in terms of building an investment practice in private venture, and maybe who are folks that are trying to build their AUM speak.
Speaker: David Friedberg
59:02
And folks who have done reasonably well, like Founders Fund has probably the most exceptional track record in Silicon Valley as a venture firm. They are very cognizant of the market conditions, and I think that they’re being very smart. By the way, the other thing I’ve heard from LPs is they’re similarly trying to find more concentrated capital themselves.
Speaker: David Friedberg
59:22
So they’re trying to put more capital to work in fewer managers. And so there’s a a real wheat from the chaff moment happening in Silicon Valley Venture right now. What I think a couple years ago was, hey. Everyone’s gonna go do a start up. A few years ago became everyone’s gonna go do a venture fund.
Speaker: David Friedberg
59:39
And now Ai think the froth that has occurred because of that is being cleared out.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
59:42
And to just explain this math before I get Sacks’ thoughts on this, if this was a $500,000,000 fund, let’s say they were putting $25,000,000 into each, We’ll take management fees out of it. $25,000,000 into each opportunity vatsal $1,000,000,000 valuation. They would own 2 and a half percent, obviously, of those firms.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:00:00
They need to get probably a $30,000,000,000 power law exit, a 30 x sai in order to just return the fund. There’ll be some dilution obviously along the way. That’s why it’s not 20x. And the number of companies that go from a 1000000000 to 30,000,000,000 per cycle is incredibly low. Uber, Coinbase, Airbnb.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:00:22
I it’s a really short list, Sachs in recent history? Broadband.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:00:28
Ai mean look. Just just go back to the CRB thing. You said at the outset of the conversation that this was either a growth fund or an opportunities fund. That makes a really big difference.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:00:39
Explain, please.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:00:40
Because well, an opportunities fund typically exists to back up your winners. In other words, if the venture fund is producing some big winners, the opportunities fund exists to deploy more capital into those into those companies as opposed to a growth fund, which is you’d be underwriting brand new companies from scratch.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:00:59
Typically, an opportunities fund is limited to companies that you’re already an investor in through your venture fund. So that makes a big difference. I mean, if CRB has a $1,000,000,000 venture fund and only a $500,000,000 opportunities fund, it may just be the case that they don’t need all of that capital to back up the winners.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:01:15
They can do their pro rata’s out of the main fund. Sai I I suspect that that might be what’s going on. I actually think this is a pretty good time to have a growth fund. A lot of
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:01:25
the Why? The
Speaker: David Sacks
01:01:25
Yeah. Well, because a lot of the, crossover capital has left the ecosystem. K. A few years
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:01:31
ago. Tigers and that sort of cohort SoftBank, Masayoshi Sana.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:01:35
Yeah. Well, tyler and, and, SoftBank are still around, but there are other very large investors, hedge funds, and so on who had come into the ecosystem with $1,000,000,000 a few years ago. And now they’ve left. And some of those funds that you’re talking about, like Tyler used to be $10,000,000,000 funds. Now they’re $2,000,000,000 funds. Right.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:01:52
They’ve been right sized. They’re not violently doing I mean, the the Tiger deal is my understanding was they weren’t joining the board in a lot of the cases, and they were outsourcing the diligence. And that was a pretty violent pace. I don’t know what we
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:02:03
can do.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:02:03
This is the best time in probably 5 years to have a growth fund.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:02:07
Interesting.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:02:08
But to to your point about the size of the venture fund, the bigger the venture fund, the bigger the winner that you need to make that pay off, obviously.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:02:15
Yes.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:02:15
And so because of the power law, so to take an example, I don’t know. Let’s say you’ve got a $1,000,000,000 venture fund. Let’s say that at IPO, you own 10% of whatever that that winner is. And because of the power law, your your fund performance is really determined by your best outcome. Right?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:02:33
Yep.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:02:34
Sai in order to take a $1,000,000,000 venture fund and sai, deliver a 3 x,
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:02:39
you
Speaker: David Sacks
01:02:40
know, so 3,000,000,000 of returns and your best company you own 10% of, that implies you have a $30,000,000,000 winner in that fund. And there are precious few outcomes where you have a $30,000,000,000 IPO. Right?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:02:55
Yeah. I mean
Speaker: David Sacks
01:02:55
This doesn’t happen very often.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:02:56
Count them on 2 hands the last cycle
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:02:58
Right.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:02:58
Like I just did. You got you got Uber, you got Robinhood, you got Coinbase. Strike will eventually come out. You got SpaceX. Well, that was 2 cycles ago. So I mean Yeah.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:03:09
You’re gonna need to have a meaningful ownership position and a massive company in order to make a fund that big payoff. The the data that I think LPs look at shows that smaller venture funds tend to perform better for this reason. ai, $600,000,000 funds. So, yeah, I personally wouldn’t want the pressure of a $1,000,000,000 venture fund. That would be really hard as a 5 or $600,000,000,000 venture fund.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:03:33
You kinda need to have or or wanna have, like, a decacorn outcome to make that a great fund, but to have to have a $30,000,000,000 plus outcome, it’s it’s even more difficult.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:03:44
Moving on, Pew just published, some really interesting research on TikTok. If you don’t know the Pew study, they’ve been doing it for decades. It’s very well respected, and, bipartisan or nonpartisan. 4 in 10 US adults aged 18 to 29 are now regularly getting their news from TikTok.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:04:01
Here’s some charts for you to take a look at. As you can see, the younger generation is really spending a lot of time on TikTok and getting a lot of their news there. I know this because, yeah. Ai I’ve I’ve talked to a bunch of kids about this. And people that use TikTok, 52% are regularly getting their news from the platform, and that number has skyrocketed compared to other social platforms. Take a look at this chart.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:04:26
Here’s x. ai% of people say they get their news at x. It’s really a news platform, so that makes total sense. You look at Facebook, it’s, you know, 48% right now. Reddit, 33%. YouTube, 37% in 2024. Instagram, 40%. But TikTok, 52, up from 22%. So it’s no longer just dancing.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:04:45
And this is the reason Ai think many people in the government were concerned about the attack vector that the CCP would have in the United States since they still control the company For services like Snapchat, LinkedIn, and WhatsApp, and Nextdoor, it’s below 20 below 30% get their news from there.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:05:05
There’s your truth social there, Sachs. 57% of people get news there and Rumble, 48%. So what’s your takeaway from from this, just Sai? Looking at it and this impact that TikTok has, is this concerning on a national security level since the algorithm’s a black box and you could tweak it if you really wanted to to really change sentiment?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:05:25
And, young people are obviously very impressionable on this platform and they’re big users of it.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:05:32
Well, I thought there was other data in this study that should calm people’s fears that TikTok would somehow be used as a political weapon. Sai in the same survey you’re talking about, 95% of adults that use TikTok say they use it because it’s entertaining. So that’s the main reason people use it and only 10% of accounts followed by US adults post content related to political or social issues.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:05:56
K. That’s posting and the main reason. Right?
Speaker: David Sacks
01:05:59
Yeah. But sai so basically you’re 90% of the accounts that get followed aren’t even posting political or social issues. They’re there for entertainment as people watching dance videos, as people Yeah.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:06:11
That’s watching.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:06:12
Ai I mean, I the main thing I use it for is to watch wrestling highlights. So, you
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:06:18
know wrestling guy?
Speaker: David Sacks
01:06:19
Yeah. I’m a wrestling fan.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:06:21
What? Yeah. You’re into this Kabuki theater of wrestling? This is new point of information. I’m
Speaker: David Sacks
01:06:26
going to Ai. I get my WWE on, on TikTok
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:06:31
because I
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:06:31
don’t have
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:06:31
to watch
Speaker: David Sacks
01:06:32
those yeah.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:06:32
I’m watching favorite? Are you a Hulk Hogan guy? Are you an Undertaker ai? Vince McMahon? I mean,
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:06:37
he’s Jimmy Jimmy Superfly Snooka.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:06:40
Who are you? Andre
Speaker: David Sacks
01:06:41
the Giant? Ai I know all those names, but
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:06:43
I like I also love the Road Warriors.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:06:45
Yeah.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:06:46
Ultimate Warrior, I loved. I I was a huge wrestling fan. That was the one thing that my dad and I bonded over. We would watch wrestling every Saturday. Saks, did you ever watch the the specials on Saturday night? Like, the
Speaker: David Sacks
01:06:59
Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:06:59
Oh, those were so great.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:07:00
That was the arya of Hulk Hogan, for sure. Saturday night’s main event.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:07:04
Randy Lauter sai, Savage.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:07:06
Savage. Yeah.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:07:07
Savage is great. Savage is great.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:07:08
Yeah. I mean, look. My my all time favorite was Stone Cold Steve Austin.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:07:11
Stone Cold is great.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:07:12
Sai marked out the hardest for Austin.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:07:13
He was he was anti woke before anti woke became a thing.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:07:17
Totally.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:07:18
This is crazy. You guys are into wrestling.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:07:21
That’s a fair enough for us. I’d say flatter is number 2 for me.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:07:24
Wait. Wait. Hold on.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:07:25
Have you gone to a wrestling exact Did you in person like the WWF at the time, or did you like the NWA as well?
Speaker: David Sacks
01:07:31
That there are moments. When when Hogan turned heel and joined the the, was it the NWO? That was, like, a big moment.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:07:40
I’m a big, Andy Kaufman wrestling fan. That was my only interest is when when Andy Kaufman came in there and, crowed them.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:07:48
But have you been Hoffman. Yeah. That well, that was, like, in the 19 seventies, wasn’t it?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:07:52
Or It was the late his eighties. Remember he was on David Letterman with Jerry Tyler? And he he comes to a wrestling match, Saks, in the south.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:08:03
And that was where I
Speaker: David Sacks
01:08:04
grew up in my hometown in Memphis.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:08:05
Right. So he goes there, and he gets in the ring. And he says, all of you rednecks, I wanna show you some new inventions. This is called soap, and this is called a washcloth, and you use it to clean yourself. And he’s, like, just mocking the southern accent and Jerry Lawler.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:08:25
Ai remember Jerry Lawler smacks him and ai Letterman. Oh, it’s the greatest No.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:08:29
It was a huge deal, I mean, where I grew up because that this was, like, on the local news. Yes. When when I grew up in Memphis, there was no professional sports teams. Okay? All we had was the Memphis State Basketball and and, wrestling every Monday night at the south Coliseum. That was it. That was like professional sports in Memphis.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:08:49
You also had probably ai some state fairs or, you know, like best goats, best sheep or something.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:08:55
Lawler was so popular that he could have been elected mayor. In fact, I think there was talk at one point of him becoming mayor.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:09:02
Wow. Ai mean, the intergender champion, Andy Kaufman. Did you, did
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:09:06
you guys like mouth of the south?
Speaker: David Sacks
01:09:08
Jimmy Hart? Oh, yeah. Jimmy Hart. Yeah. Yeah. He was amazing. He was, like, the main heel manager for a while. Yeah.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:09:14
Okay. This
Speaker: David Sacks
01:09:15
is before the WWE took over. I guess it’s called WWF back then, but there were all these little fiefdoms and kingdoms, and meh south wrestling was, like, one of those kingdoms and Lawler was, like, the king of it. And then you had all these guys come in and out and wrestle.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:09:29
Friedberg, you ever watch wrestling? And what do you think of this TikTok survey?
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:09:34
I don’t watch wrestling.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:09:35
Okay. Very good. And TikTok survey, anything where arya you now? Any thoughts?
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:09:40
Looks like they gathered some reasonable data.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:09:42
Okay. There you go. There’s there’s your part getting hacked.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:09:45
Ai point was that it’s mostly an entertainment app where people go to watch dance videos, wrestling clips, style influencers, and so on. And I think that this idea that it’s somehow a propaganda tool around, you know, programming our youth, I think that’s a moral panic that’s been exaggerated.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:10:02
What do you think the odds are that TikTok is hacked to allow you to passively listen even when the app is not being used?
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:10:09
0. You think it’s definitively 0? No. They’re, like, 5%. I think that’s very unlikely. Yeah. Because so someone said that that was that was, there was some code that enabled that in the early version of the app, and then some other people audited it, and they said they did not find evidence that there was any technology.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:10:29
And Apple’s got a very good audit system for this.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:10:31
Did those same people audit WhatsApp? And then it turned out that it was Totally agree.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:10:36
They passively listen? Yeah. Does WhatsApp passively listen? Yeah.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:10:39
It’s one of the it’s one of the most well known breaches.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:10:41
Or maybe they do. Maybe it’s
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:10:43
maybe it’s for sure. Percent certain that the CCP is using it because they these people have tracked already journalists using it. So if they’ve already done it, it’s a 100%. Sana I don’t know about the passive listening. But any thoughts on 50% plus of young people getting their news here?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:10:56
Chamath, any news on that? I mean, obviously, we don’t have evidence that it’s being used currently to manipulate people. But it’s over 50% of young people are now getting their news there or say they’re getting their news there.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:11:07
So I meh more than 50% of young people are getting their news from podcasts, and those podcasts get chopped up and clipped, and then people watch them on TikTok. Yeah.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:11:14
For sure.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:11:15
I bet that’s how it’s happening.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:11:16
There are a lot of people who think this show is a TikTok show, and they don’t know it’s a big shah. Yeah.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:11:22
We’ll have to prepare for a brave new world in the following way. There was an arya, I think it was in the Wall Street Journal, that said that Russia and Iran were paying low level street criminals to create chaos. Okay. And I and I read that article and I thought, okay, well, what does this mean if you actually extrapolate this, which is that the hot wars are very complicated, not worth doing.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:11:49
These disruptive fissures are the better way to sai chaos. And it occurred to me then that tying this back to something that we saw before, it does make sense for a lot of folks to sponsor a lot of long tail content that say a lot of different things. I think that that just is pretty obvious.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:12:08
And so I think that if you put these two ideas together, it stands to reason that a lot of people will be paying influencers a lot of money to create all kinds of content that is specific to a perspective that they have. And then on top of that, if you can algorithmically amplify one over the other, you know, you’re you’re going to have issues.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:12:31
Is it the biggest issue in the world? Probably not.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:12:35
Ai is probably the biggest issue.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:12:36
Swing an election, but it would cause chaos, and we just had the the southern district of New York target that Russian Russia Today was giving $10,000,000 to 4 podcasters. They didn’t even know they were getting paid by the Russians. They just picked them because they liked their opinions, and they gave them a 100,000 an episode to to promote pro Russian positions.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:12:56
If the Russians were actually doing it, it’s the stupidest use of $10,000,000 ever because
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:13:02
Great insight.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:13:02
Those podcasters already have their own channels. They’re already putting out lots of content, and this other content is a drop in the bucket. I think, Jamath, the the issue with what you’re saying is just there is so much content out there already. People create it for free.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:13:15
People create it, you know, because they’re they have a career in it. There’s a whole long tail of influencers. There is so much content out there already through podcasts, through ai, it’s all being chopped up, that trying to do it as some sort of disinformation strategy, I think is very hard to do because it’s just when there’s 1,000,000,000 and 1,000,000,000 of impressions, any effort that you try to engineer ends up just being a drop in the bucket.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:13:40
I agree
Speaker: David Sacks
01:13:41
with that.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:13:41
Yeah. It’s definitely a drop in the bucket.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:13:43
Ai not the goal. But yeah. It makes sense in theory. It’s very hard to do in practice.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:13:47
Yeah. The goal is not to win any specific argument. It’s to create mistrust in the entire news ecosystem, in the information system sai that people give up trying to figure out what the truth is. And that’s what
Speaker: David Sacks
01:14:01
the Russian media media’s doing that on their own. The mainstream media lies so bad. That’s what’s creating the distrust.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:14:08
As are the Russians paying off podcasters. Okay. Let’s meh if that
Speaker: David Sacks
01:14:11
$10,000,000 gonna accomplish anything if that story’s even true? It makes no sense.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:14:15
Great question. Great question. May I answer it?
Speaker: David Sacks
01:14:18
It looks like a conspiracy theory.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:14:20
Not a conspiracy there at all. These were very low level, mid, like, you know, tier b, CD podcasters. If you give them a $100,000 per episode, they can spend more money buying cameras, promoting their shows, hiring people. So you’re just finding people and dropping money on their heads so they can do more of the same. So it’s a very smart strategy, in fact, I think.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:14:40
I think it’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. They they took podcasters who were already successful and paid them to release content through a less watched channel. That’s the question.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:14:49
It was it was just more about getting the money to produce more content, and then they in
Speaker: David Sacks
01:14:53
the These guys are already on. These guys are already live streaming, like, 247. Oh, there’s your puppy. Guys are already live streaming, like, 247.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:14:58
Oh, there’s your puppy. Here he goes. Freebird trying to win more people over with this puppy love. Unbelievable. This guy is absolutely ridiculous. Unbelievable. Alright. Listen. Let me give Sai some red meat here. He got he got his little steak ta ta with my Russia Today story. You got your little amuse bouj.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:15:18
And now I give you your tomahawk. You ready, Saxx? You want your tomahawk? You want it rare? Here it comes. 2024 election update.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:15:27
The betting markets and polling indicate a really tight race, but maybe Trump is surging this week. Polymarket, which is a betting arya, has Trump 55 to ai versus Kamala. Kalshi, another betting market. 52, 48, Trump. Lovato and PointsBet, those are offshore booking and Poly Market is also offshore. 52, 48, Trump.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:15:50
Nate Silver, friend of the pod, his algorithm has it 5347. Kamala, real clear polling. That’s an algorithm, has Kamala with a 2 point lead. New York Times Sienna, Kamala with a 3 point lead. Reuters, Ipsos, pretty well trusted, 3 point lead for Kamala.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:16:08
NPR PBS, Meh Poll has Kamala with a 2 point lead. So sportbooks and betting markets are favoring Trump slightly while the polls are slightly favoring Kamala. Sai, Ai sliced it up nice for you. You got nice 10 slices of meat here. Which slice you going for?
Speaker: David Sacks
01:16:28
Well, I think your recitation of the polls there kinda mixes up a couple of things. There’s popular vote polls, and then there’s electoral college, which goes ai by state. If you look at pretty much now all the main pollsters, you look at Tony Fabrizio, you look at RealClearPolitics.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:16:43
They’re now showing that Trump is winning the electoral college right now. He is up in almost every swing state, including, I think, Michigan, which is pretty surprising. Clearly, there’s been a huge swing towards Trump over the last week or 2. And look, there’s still 25 days to go, so anything can happen.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:17:01
I don’t wanna overstate this, but, yeah, this is a good example right here showing
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:17:04
that Trump now the Republican nomination is is ai to 242. What is Fabrizio?
Speaker: David Sacks
01:17:10
He’s just a Republican pollster, but his accuracy is pretty high.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:17:14
Ai never heard of Fabrizio.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:17:16
Well, another guy who I think is more neutral is Mark Halprin, who is a pundit, who has been very accurate this election cycle. Remember, he’s the one who broke the scoop that Biden would be replaced by Harris, and he even said exactly when it would happen. And, he predicted it down to the day. He was exactly right about that.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:17:36
And if you follow his account, he is now saying that both Republican and Democrat insiders that he talks to are both saying the same thing, which is their internals are now showing Trump ahead in every swing state or almost every swing state. And, things seem to be breaking Trump’s way right now.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:17:55
Again, there’s 25 days left, but if you’re wondering why is Harris all of a sudden doing interviews is because their internal started showing that she was in trouble. So they decided to get her out more.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:18:06
And Or is it the other way? Is it that the her Howard Stern interviews or whatever are causing her to lose votes?
Speaker: David Sacks
01:18:12
Well, yeah. Exactly. Well, sai, you know
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:18:14
Which one is it do you think? Because I don’t know when you Well, I think have the dates of all these polls versus that.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:18:18
No. I think it’s I it’s it’s what I predicted a couple of months ago. It’s the doom loop. So what I said 2 months ago is that if Harris gets behind, she’s gonna have to abandon this sort of basement strategy of not doing interviews. She’s gonna have to start doing interviews. The problem is she’s not good at interviews.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:18:32
And if she does more interviews, she’s gonna fall further behind in the polls and it could cause a doom loop. So that’s where we appear to be right now. I said that on August 30th.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:18:41
Okay. Chamath, you’re that? I think that Donald Trump has basically stuck to his strategy, which is he is a generational retail politician. I just heard parts of what he did with Andrew Schultz, another great sort of, you know, podcast. I think David’s right that the editing and the massaging of the Kamala Harris talking points are galvanizing the people that have already decided and turning off the people that have already decided to vote for Trump, and she’s losing the folks in the middle.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:19:18
And so this is what’s causing her to have to be out there. And on and she’s gonna have to deliver a very crisp meh. And I and I think that right now, it’s been a little bit lacking, which is why you’re seeing the polls, at least the electoral college, which is really what matters at this point, turn Trump.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:19:37
So she’s gonna have a bit of an uphill fight between here November. The other thing I’ll say is that if you’ve seen what’s happening in the appellate court, it’s not clear whether the the Trump case is gonna get overturned before the election, but if that does, that could be very meaningful momentum for him.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:19:57
And then I think the third thing is that we should now buckle in because if the last two elections are any guide, there are going to be a bunch of spanners in the works between now November.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:20:11
Wait. What did you sai? Spanners? Spanners in the works. Yeah.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:20:14
What does
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:20:15
it mean?
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:20:15
Rent what what do you call it? Wrench in the system?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:20:17
You meh, like, an October surprise? You mean, like, some crazy turn of events? Okay. Friberg, any thoughts here? Would you like to Rorschach test this and see what you want in the numbers, Or do you have some objective thoughts here? What’s your take?
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:20:32
You know, there’s On the polling data?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:20:34
Yeah. Where we’re at in the election, pretty open ended here. You can look at the you can make a note on overall what you see between the betting markets and the polls and that disparity. You could just talk generally about where you think we are. You could talk about Kamala on Howard Stern and doing a bunch of interviews with friendlies.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:20:54
What were where are you at right now?
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:20:55
I didn’t see her interviews. Okay. I saw some excerpts on Twitter.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:20:59
Oh, boy. Yeah. Let me just follow-up on a point Chamath made. Chamath said that she had to be crisp. If you look at any of these interviews, they’re the opposite of crisp. She’s asked softball questions by by, like, Stephen Colbert saying, why are you running for president?
Speaker: David Sacks
01:21:12
How are you different than Joe Biden?
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:21:15
Yeah.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:21:15
And she doesn’t have good answers. She starts free associating. She gives these very long winded answers that don’t go anywhere. She says she can’t think of a single way she’s different than Joe Biden when when pushed on that. It’s very strange.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:21:28
These are questions that most favorite shows. I wish she would do some challenging shows. I think she’s gotta do Joe Rogan, all in, and, what would be another good podcast for her, Dujima, if she really wanted to, like, do the adversarial thing or something more Ai to
Speaker: David Sacks
01:21:42
why I was gonna do an adversarial interview.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:21:44
Adversarial, just come to All In. Come and have a conversation.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:21:46
Come and have a normal conversation here. Yeah. No. I’m just thinking, like, it seems ai,
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:21:52
Sai, if she comes and has a has a conversation, you’ll be respectful.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:21:56
Yeah. This whole idea that I didn’t treat Cuban respectfully as nonsense. Just watch the tape.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:22:01
I don’t even keep all that.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:22:03
Ai know, bro. Somebody somebody asserted that.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:22:06
No. I mean, I the all if you look back on every single presidential related one we did here, they were all respectful, and they were all conversations. I think the Cuba one dipped because of both of you into a bit more of a debate, and there was a lot more crossover than the other ones.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:22:21
Wanted that. That’s what she wants to do for. Yes. Yes. No. No. Ai agree.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:22:24
Back to him as well. He likes
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:22:25
to come out. He likes to do his thing. Yeah. That’s exactly what he wanted.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:22:28
If you look at all the other ones, I’m trying to think of a moment where it, if you look at the other DNB Phillips, Chris Christie, Vivek.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:22:37
Boring. Gotta go. Love you guys.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:22:38
All interesting too. Alright. Ai
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:22:39
see you later. This has been another amazing episode of the All In podcast. Episode 199. Make sure you go to allin.com/meetups. Make sure if you’re starting a company, you go to founder.university. If you’re an engineer What are you doing? Please go to I’m doing whatever the I please. David Sacks.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:22:56
Make sure you go to, Supergut. Glueai ai you’re an engineer. And if you like potatoes, go to ahollow.com and order your potatoes, preorder a subscription.
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:23:06
I mean, if we’re doing that, sell some let’s sell some
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:23:08
super gum. Shamaka, I’ll get some patricia. 80908090.
Speaker: David Sacks
01:23:11
Go to 80908090. Out of control.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:23:13
We’ll see everybody next time on the All
Speaker: David Friedberg
01:23:16
in Plumbing. Bye bye.
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:23:17
Bye bye.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:23:17
Bye bye. I gotcha. Ai are all. That is my dog taking it out of sheer driveway sex. Oh, man. Ai We should all just get a room
Speaker: Chamath Palihapitiya
01:23:51
and just have one big huge orgy because they’re all just useless. It’s like this, like, sexual tension and we just need to release them out.
Speaker: Jason Calacanis
01:23:58
Let your Let your feet. Let your feet. Let
Speaker: David Sacks
01:24:01
your feet.
