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All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson Podcast Episode Description
(0:00) Friedberg and Jason are live from Austin!
(2:51) How building an audience has impacted the Besties
(11:15) Colin & Samir join the Besties!
(12:01) Evolution of short-form and long-form content
(22:18) Business models for creatives
(35:04) Advice to up and coming creators
(42:10) Chris Williamson joins the Besties!
(50:17) Making it seem effortless
(57:47) Monetizing content
(1:05:02) Scaling a one-man show
(1:19:15) Bryan Johnson joins the Besties!
(1:20:13) Spotify’s move to video
(1:21:21) Bryan’s Ketamine experience
(1:28:03) Creators and value props
(1:36:52) Issues with the US food industry
(1:43:10) Top tips for healthy living
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Follow Bryan Johnson:
https://www.youtube.com/@BryanJohnson
https://x.com/bryan_johnson
Follow the besties:
https://x.com/chamath
https://x.com/Jason
https://x.com/DavidSacks
https://x.com/friedberg
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All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson Podcast Episode Top Keywords
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson Podcast Episode Summary
In this podcast episode, the hosts and guests delve into the evolving landscape of podcasting and the broader media industry. The discussion centers around the strategic use of podcasts to build audiences and monetize content. Key points include the various ways podcasters can generate revenue, such as through ads, sponsorships, and creating their own products. The conversation highlights the importance of building credibility and leveraging podcasting as a learning tool and networking opportunity.
A significant theme is the dual nature of podcasting, where content can range from high-end, well-produced shows to more casual, conversational formats. The episode emphasizes the value of engaging with smart individuals and asking insightful questions to enhance learning and build connections.
The speakers also discuss the shift from short-form to long-form content, noting how podcasts are increasingly encroaching on traditional media spaces like journalism and news. This evolution is attributed to platforms partnering with independent creators to distribute long-form content.
Actionable insights include the potential for podcasters to monetize clips and the importance of maintaining a low production lift to accommodate busy schedules. The episode also touches on the emotional and personal growth aspects of podcasting, with hosts sharing their experiences of vulnerability and audience engagement.
Overall, the episode underscores the transformative power of podcasting in the media landscape, highlighting its role in fostering meaningful conversations and building communities. The recurring message is the importance of authenticity, preparation, and the willingness to engage deeply with both content and audience.
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All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson Podcast Episode Transcript (Unedited)
Speaker: 0
00:00
That was perfect. We rocked it, bro. That’s right. It’s great.
Speaker: 1
00:17
Hey, everybody. Yeah. Welcome to Austin.
Speaker: 2
00:21
Welcome, everybody. That’s my ai, Dave Friedbert. Thanks for having me.
Speaker: 1
00:26
How arya you doing, brother? Welcome to Texas.
Speaker: 2
00:28
It’s a little light. We’re missing a couple friends here tonight.
Speaker: 1
00:31
We have some new friends. We got some awesome friends, and we wanted to do something around this sort of new media creator economy. It’s something, you know, we’re experiencing with the podcast. And, that’s obviously having a big impact on ai. Right? A lot
Speaker: 2
00:46
of people say this was the podcast election. The big media companies from journalism, Fox News, CNN, to the big platforms Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, to Disney and others ai kind of rearranging their pawns on the chessboard based on and responding to what’s going on. And so we thought it’d be really interesting to hear about some of the people who we think are probably the smartest in the creator economy in terms of building a business and how you maneuver and how you play and how you grow as part of that conversation today.
Speaker: 1
01:23
You, didn’t you had a Twitter account when we started all in. Twitter account. But you literally had never tweeted, and now you’ve become the sultan of science. You’re very famous. Any sultan of science fans out there? Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Did anybody see him win Celebrity Jeopardy? You sana I mean, we’re so proud of our bestie.
Speaker: 2
01:44
Yeah. That’s hard.
Speaker: 1
01:46
Have no idea how anxious, ashamed, hand wringing he was for six weeks. He knew he won. He wouldn’t tell us the outcome because he knew that Chamath would gamble it and it would be, like, a whole controversy. He’d figure out a way to make, you know, a bet on it.
Speaker: 2
02:05
Actually, someone doesn’t know how to keep their mouth shah.
Speaker: 1
02:07
But Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That’s ai. I keep talking to your mouth about that. Yeah. And then he wins and he wins, but he’s so upset at himself because he didn’t win enough.
Speaker: 2
02:18
I gonna thank our sponsors.
Speaker: 1
02:21
I mean, this is what happens on an average show. I say about 17 inappropriate things. He goes, strike, cut, strike, cut. And then we have to have a grand negotiation after the episode where we horse trade the inappropriate things Chamath and I say and what he’s gonna allow us to do.
Speaker: 1
02:37
I don’t
Speaker: 2
02:37
mind when Chamath says inappropriate things.
Speaker: 0
02:39
It’s just like
Speaker: 2
02:40
because it usually doesn’t involve other people. It’s you where you kinda cross the line a little bit, but, you know
Speaker: 1
02:45
That’s why they tune in.
Speaker: 2
02:46
I have to save you from you, JCal.
Speaker: 1
02:48
But what has it been like in terms of because we’re gonna talk about this here. A lot of people now are taking the playbook of creating audience and then building companies. And you were doing the production board, you’re building a bunch of different companies. Oh, hollow became very successful, and you said, hey, wait, I gotta go all in on this, so to speak.
Speaker: 1
03:06
But you’re going into it with a certain amount of audience, a certain amount of notoriety, and the ability let’s face it, a lot of people in business know you from the podcast now. So what’s it like being a CEO now and having the pod as ai a platform?
Speaker: 2
03:23
That’s actually a great question. Because for me, I’m like not doing this podcast to ai build a media thing. I just thought it’d be interesting. We started doing it during COVID and I kept doing it. I don’t know why I kept doing it to be honest. Ai to quit at all. Sai tried to quit every week Sai wanted to quit.
Speaker: 1
03:36
Ai I still contemplated a lot. We had so much tension the first two years.
Speaker: 2
03:40
Until we got to sign an LLC agreement, now it’s all smooth sailing. The votes are what mattered. It was a big Well,
Speaker: 0
03:46
actually, I
Speaker: 1
03:47
think it’s like a real important evolution. You know, we had this thing going ad hoc, and I was trying to keep it together. And, you know, the one thing I I learned in media from Engadget, I asked Peter Rojas, who I had stolen from Gizmodo, Nick Denton’s,
Speaker: 2
04:01
Yep.
Speaker: 1
04:01
Company to come to Engadget. I said, tell me the secret of why Gizmodo, Gawker, and now Engadget are doing so well. And he said, oh, the secret to blogging is very simple. Show up every day.
Speaker: 2
04:11
It’s actually a great point. And then, yeah, I mean, Jason did keep keep us showing up and then it became a thing and then it’s ai, okay, we should probably do something legit to make this into a business or make it into something structural that stays alive. So we did. But to answer your question, I go to meet with farmers a lot and business executives in the agriculture industry.
Speaker: 2
04:31
And I can’t tell you how often I run into someone who’s like Sai ai your podcast. I’m a fan. That is Like Farmer Joe. Farmer ai the other day Sai was in a meeting. Ai won’t reveal too much, but like, you know, I mean you guys won’t have any ai, but like some big farmer company, big company that does farming, who you would have never heard of.
Speaker: 2
04:49
No one in this room has ever heard of. And then I’m in the hallway after we do this big pitch and the guy pulls me sai. He’s like, give me a fist bump. He’s like, love the pod. Ai like It is weird. It is it is weird.
Speaker: 2
05:00
And then I’m like in in ai another state at a meeting and the COO comes out. He’s like, I’m a big fan of the pod. And so it helps with getting, building trust. You’ve earned a reputation. And so then when I go into meetings, people know me because of this pod. Right.
Speaker: 2
05:16
And that reduces friction. I don’t have to go sell myself in a meeting. Right. I’m already sold, and it makes business easier. And so ram meh, the pod isn’t about making money on the pod as much as it is ai helping me in my everyday work, which is where I spend pretty much all my time except for a couple hours a week here.
Speaker: 2
05:33
To to contextualize that in the conversation we’re sana have today, you create an audience with your content. What do you do with that audience? Do you what are you doing this for? You can sell ads and make money against that audience. You can get sponsors that you speak to, you know, quality products that you endorse, and you can make more money, and you can either get paid cash or get some equity.
Speaker: 2
05:55
You can build your own product and actually own it, and then own all the equity and participate meaningfully in the upside as you sell your audience your product. Or in other cases, you’re building credibility. You’re building, which is what a lot of venture capitalists did after our shah, I think, kind of became big.
Speaker: 2
06:10
They ai that they have this opportunity to build credibility with entrepreneurs, so when an entrepreneur shows up, they’re like, oh, I want to work with you because I’ve seen you on your podcast. Or investors show up, I want to invest with you because I’ve seen your comments on your podcast.
Speaker: 2
06:21
So I think there’s a lot of ways to think about the value of this, but building an audience, building credibility is really beneficial and it can work out in a lot of ways.
Speaker: 1
06:30
Yeah. And you you take it seriously. You know, it’s it’s an investment in time for you. Today, we’ve recorded a great episode. We had our first comedian on, Andrew Schultz, and that’ll come out tomorrow. He was hilarious. But you had an emotional moment today on the show. We’re talking about entrepreneurship and your journey. Mhmm. And, you know, I I gotta give you a lot of credit.
Speaker: 1
06:51
You know, you’re not ai, a professional broadcast or whatever, but you prepare, and you put it all out there. And I am very proud of the work you’ve done and how you’ve evolved as a broadcaster and as, you know, somebody on the pod. I’m very, very proud of, you know, how much you’ve started to put out there of yourself. And it’s not easy to do because you’re an introverted sana pro person.
Speaker: 2
07:12
I mean Are you extroverted? I’m like I
Speaker: 1
07:15
meh, ai. I mean, on the MDMA. I’m gonna
Speaker: 2
07:16
go party. I don’t know what you’re talking about. You don’t sana lock yourself up in the room after
Speaker: 1
07:20
a while. Maybe in the nineties when you were going to raves and you had a little of the molly, the MDMA, you were different. But I’m saying, like, now you’re a little bit, you know but you
Speaker: 2
07:28
Back in the day.
Speaker: 1
07:30
Back in the day. It’s hilarious because he’s such a perfectionist. And every time the pod comes out, Chamath and I just wait sixty minutes after the pod. That sucked. Right? Producer Nick, it sucked. Right? We should delete it. Cancel it. There’s the worst episode ever. And then the stats come out. Oh, we broke another record.
Speaker: 1
07:48
Oh, it’s number eight in the world.
Speaker: 2
07:49
Oh, okay. Look. The the the reality is we can always do better.
Speaker: 1
07:52
I mean, I had I am such an optimist as some of my friends who are here know. Like, I just like, shah was fucking great. It was a train wreck. But for me, it was a great train wreck. And and, you know, just so you all know, we couldn’t do it without the audience. And the love that you give us is such an amazing motivation, especially for me. Like, I feed off the energy.
Speaker: 1
08:14
And when you all tell me your favorite episode or a great moment or you email us something where, you know, the thing I’m probably most proud of now is people are telling me they’re having more difficult conversations with their friends while remaining friends. And I think that’s like one of the most beautiful things for me and my motivation on the pod, is really to to help give an example of how you can really have a hardcore discussion, learn from each other, appreciate each other, and I hope that you all take that back to your poker games, dinners, etcetera, families.
Speaker: 1
08:49
You know, it’s a very divided country right now. There’s a lot of important issues. But friendship is worth investing in. I just wanna give you all that as, like, a a note. Invest in your friends, invest in those hard conversations, your life will become so rich because but have a couple of laughs. Don’t take it all so seriously, David.
Speaker: 2
09:07
Yeah. Well, before we before we bring our, friends out, Colin and Sameer, I’m sana to just quickly We don’t do sponsors on the show or ads on the show, but when we do live events
Speaker: 1
09:17
This is incredibly infuriating me. I want to read out some shows.
Speaker: 2
09:20
She’ll be ai.
Speaker: 1
09:21
We’d have a jet by now.
Speaker: 2
09:22
We want to pay for these Ai don’t want to pay for live events out of pocket, so we do have sponsors. Sai mean, dollars left on
Speaker: 0
09:27
the table.
Speaker: 2
09:28
You’ll be fine. Ai another Uber.
Speaker: 1
09:32
Ai did. It’s called Robin,
Speaker: 2
09:33
but it’s
Speaker: 3
09:34
doing great.
Speaker: 1
09:34
Yeah. So I
Speaker: 2
09:36
sana to say thanks to Gemini. Gemini just stepped up. I think we just got them involved this week in helping us put this event on and the after party on. Global cryptocurrency exchange. Everyone knows Gemini. Available in all 50 states with a focus on security. And you can ai, sell Bitcoin plus 70 other cryptocurrencies.
Speaker: 2
09:58
Ai offering new users $50 in Bitcoin when you sign up with the code all in. A l l I n. Even you might trade crypto after this account.
Speaker: 1
10:06
Meh own a decent amount of Bitcoin, and I think everybody should own, like, a low single digit percentage. It’s not investment. Is there
Speaker: 2
10:12
net worth?
Speaker: 1
10:13
I think, like, a low single digit in Bitcoin, if you lose it, so be it. If it a hundred x’s from here, anything’s possible.
Speaker: 2
10:19
My gemini.com/ all in. Use the code all in. $50, free ai with a hundred dollar deposit. And then function health, we’ve negotiated a special deal for users today. They have access to over a hundred lab tests, which I think is super interesting personally. It’s really hard.
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10:34
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10:34
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10:40
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10:43
fancy word
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10:44
for somebody who draws blood. Phlebotomist. I learned that from function. And then you can be like Brian Johnson, my friend here in the front row. Yeah. And you can live forever with function health.
Speaker: 2
10:54
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Speaker: 1
11:00
I take it.
Speaker: 2
11:00
NAD plus booster. Lots of studies. Very efficacious. So thank you to TRU NIAGEN again. Great product. But those are the sponsors that help pay for this.
Speaker: 1
11:09
Give it up to the sponsors one time. Come on now.
Speaker: 2
11:11
Very good. Very good. You wanna get Colin into the app?
Speaker: 1
11:14
Yeah. Hey. Let’s bring out our first guest. Colin Sai, run the Colin and Samir Shah, and they are experts on building content business. Come on out, Colin. Come on out, Samir. Ai. Welcome. You get you get the couch.
Speaker: 2
11:31
Come sit on
Speaker: 1
11:31
the couch.
Speaker: 2
11:32
See it, brother? It’s alright.
Speaker: 1
11:34
Yeah. Sit on the couch.
Speaker: 0
11:35
You guys are like real creators.
Speaker: 2
11:36
Brand deals.
Speaker: 4
11:37
Look at that ram deal.
Speaker: 2
11:38
Thanks for being here. I think we wanted to talk to you guys a little bit about the evolution in media. I sana talk a little bit about the origination and the creator economy where folks were putting out, and tell me if I’m off on this, but what felt like more kind of short form content.
Speaker: 2
11:52
It was almost like a new type of media that was different than traditional long form media, TikTok type content. But then what happened, it’s like folks started doing podcasts sana the content started to eat into other forms of media. It started to eat up journalism now. And eat up news media. Now the platforms are doing deals with the independent creators to put out long form content.
Speaker: 2
12:17
Can you talk a little bit about the evolution of like short form long form? Ai. I don’t think
Speaker: 4
12:20
you can underscore the importance of the YouTube app on TVs. Just the fact that there was now a free option and you have people who are in a setting where they want to actually sit and consume something for a longer period of time. So as creators started putting out longer videos, they started serving more ads, making more money, investing back in their channels, in their shows and now they can actually produce things consistently.
Speaker: 4
12:44
They can make things better, they can elevate it, they can make them longer and that’s what you’re seeing now. I mean like 50% of our watch time is on connected TV.
Speaker: 2
12:52
The reach has grown because of YouTube on TV. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
12:55
Yeah. Specifically, YouTube now like, when you buy a new TV, I just when I when I moved to the ranch, I got new TV, and it’s got YouTube on the remote. Mhmm. And you just think about that as a concept. And then I watch my daughter’s behaviors, and they are watching YouTube on the giant television, not on their iPads.
Speaker: 1
13:12
It’s it’s really a major difference. And there’s something about I’d like you to get into is the algorithm
Speaker: 0
13:18
Yeah.
Speaker: 1
13:19
Versus ai.
Speaker: 2
13:20
Sure.
Speaker: 1
13:21
Because I grew up in a subscriber world Mhmm. Where I thought about, okay, I’m gonna get one more subscriber, subscriber world Mhmm. Where I thought about, okay, meh me get one more subscriber and then I’ll have them arya certain number, them out of 10, I meh keep five, but they’re gonna watch every episode.
Speaker: 1
13:32
But then there’s something that’s gone on where people are creating content not with the intent of ai, but with the intent of getting picked up by an algorithm and getting non subscriber viewers. This seems like there’s some tension here maybe.
Speaker: 0
13:46
Yeah. I would say probably the biggest creators, most successful creators largely have like a 70% viewership base that’s not subscribed to them, right? And I Really? Yeah, I would say that’s pretty, pretty common amongst our friend group and amongst the people that we work with.
Speaker: 0
14:01
And I think a lot of that has to do with the algorithm shift towards viewer satisfaction. And YouTube is a recommendations algorithm. So first, when we first started making YouTube videos, if you can make a great thumbnail, people would click. That then inevitably got into clickbait, where you would click into a video, it was really short, it wasn’t representative of what was in the thumbnail.
Speaker: 0
14:20
So YouTube shifted their algorithm into what is called viewer satisfaction, which is essentially gauged off of click through rate, did they click on the video, And then average view duration. How long did they watch? What percentage of this video did they watch? Then there’s other engagement metrics. They ai the video. They comment on the video.
Speaker: 0
14:36
There’s a lot of different ways to understand satisfaction. But essentially, as creators, every YouTube creator, what they’re trying to do is go, what video are you watching before you watch my video? Because Interesting. I want you to click on my video after you’re done with that video or maybe in the middle of that video. So most traffic on YouTube comes from suggested.
Speaker: 1
14:59
Okay. Does
Speaker: 0
15:00
that make sense?
Speaker: 1
15:01
Yes. You have the suggested on here. So you’re telling me people are creating videos with the intention of hijacking a popular video and trying to get that suggested. So everybody’s talking about, I don’t know, pick the latest thing Trump did today, sai or who’s on Joe Rogan or what Meh. Beast did.
Speaker: 1
15:20
So now I try to get one of those slots that would be related to the latest Mr. Beast video.
Speaker: 0
15:24
Yeah. I wouldn’t say that timely because I think YouTube operates as a catalog. Right? Like, some of our videos that are still picking up viewership today were made four years ago. So the best way to do it is to build a catalog that accrues viewership over time. So you’re you’re mainly looking at, like, subject matters with high total addressable markets on YouTube. Right? Like specific on YouTube.
Speaker: 0
15:44
So that is why when, you know, the world of Mr. Beast really exploded on YouTube, you have a lot of people talking about Mr. Beast or reacting to Mr. Beast or going, there’s 200,000,000 people to tap into here who are probably watching a Mr. Beast video.
Speaker: 1
15:59
This is fascinating because right now there are people doing after all in videos where they talk and kinda drag us, you know, a bit, and they’re doing phenomenally well too.
Speaker: 0
16:09
Oh, they are? Maybe we’ll get into that too. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
16:11
We should drag us as well. There’s plenty to drag ram.
Speaker: 2
16:13
I wouldn’t call it phenomenally well. There’s, like, couple hundred years
Speaker: 1
16:17
or something. We could be the best
Speaker: 4
16:19
in that category. Actually, you could own that category. Ai do
Speaker: 1
16:22
you do for calling art and the artist that this is in their brands? Because, you know, Freeberg and Ai, after a show happens, I talk about the moments. Sure. And Freeberg is, you know, got that other brain where he’s, like, talking about the meh, and he’s wondering about the wait time and the thumbs up and the thumbs down.
Speaker: 1
16:40
Who liked it? I’m like, I don’t give a fuck about that. I it was a funny moment. There was this moment people laughed. There was this moment that had emotional resonance. So maybe you could talk a little bit about art versus commerce, art versus algorithm. Art versus algorithm.
Speaker: 4
16:52
Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s difficult to create right now within a vacuum. Right? I would say even opening up TikTok, the first couple of TikToks you see are sana to show you what works. Totally. Right? So it’s hard to create something now that I know what works. Now that
Speaker: 2
17:06
I know what people will see. If that’s the objective, audience growth.
Speaker: 4
17:10
But it’s it’s a true artist does not necessarily care if someone ai
Speaker: 2
17:15
your work. If one person loves my ai, that’s all that matters. Ai, for example
Speaker: 4
17:18
But a true artist doesn’t always know actually what they could do to get people to watch their work. And so we immediately know what would work. And so you find for a lot of creators, they’re on two ends of the spectrum. They’re either an artist or they’re a distributor. But to be an impactful creator, you kind of actually need to lean more towards distributor.
Speaker: 4
17:36
You need to be like that programming executive that’s vatsal, ai, well Spiderman worked, let’s do it again. Let’s do it again. Let’s do it again. Correct.
Speaker: 3
17:44
We see
Speaker: 2
17:44
that a lot if we change the title of the show or the order of the topics. We debate this a lot. Where it’s now this might be the thing that I want to talk about but no one wants Ai Corner upfront because then the audience won’t click.
Speaker: 1
17:58
No. I mean, we literally But
Speaker: 2
18:00
I think it’s actually
Speaker: 1
18:01
Do you guys think
Speaker: 2
18:01
if we had Science Corner upfront, more audience would click? Thank you. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
18:05
But that’s the media business. Right?
Speaker: 2
18:07
More Trump. It’s like, well, we’ve got enough Trump.
Speaker: 1
18:09
Sai mean, this is the tension we’ve had, you know, and we’re we’re a band, not a solo performer, right? So you have four people with distinct perspectives and, you know, Sai was always of the mind, what’s the top story in the world? I’m trying to think about, well, like, what’s the most interesting, you know, discussion? Freeberg’s ai, well, what’s the biggest breakthrough, and what did we do last week?
Speaker: 1
18:33
And you kinda and then Shamat’s like, well, what am I wearing, and how does it look?
Speaker: 2
18:38
What am I wearing? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
18:39
What am I wearing? What am I wearing? That’s good. How yeah. What did I what did I consume this week? You know, it’s all everybody’s got different things there, but it’s kinda disheartening to me to even know about all this. I feel like it’s ruining it to a certain extent
Speaker: 2
18:55
for me.
Speaker: 0
18:56
Ai. I think it look, there’s there’s tension between, creativity and strategy on these platforms. Right? Because these are businesses. And if you zoom out and go, like, how do media businesses work? This is how media businesses work.
Speaker: 1
19:06
Sure.
Speaker: 0
19:07
But I I think what you have to think about is also choosing your platforms. I think we struggle because we entered into the world of YouTube fifteen years ago as creatives, as, you know, guys who are exploring wanting to get into Hollywood and saw this as a different route.
Speaker: 0
19:21
And where we’ve come to as now entrepreneurs is we’re in the media business. And there’s still tension where we we want to express our creativity, we sana to do cool things that we think are cool, but they’re very anti, you know, media. But what I think what you’re talking about, what’s really interesting is you just need to pick the right environment.
Speaker: 0
19:38
So we think about platforms in the context of, like, permission and interruption. So YouTube is an interruptive platform. You have to stop someone in their tracks with a thumbnail to get them to click in. Right? But Ai, for example, is a permission based platform.
Speaker: 0
19:51
Like RSS feeds are permission based. Email, which we we have an email newsletter. That’s where we can have permission. People have given us permission to be in there. It’s where you’re seeing the rise of memberships too, whether it’s ai Patreon. Right? Like people have said, hey, you know what, I’ll pay whatever you guys make, I’m down.
Speaker: 0
20:06
And so I actually think you you just think about those environments of, you know, top of funnel, bottom of funnel, or you go permission interruption. It’s it’s an interesting way to think about in this environment Sai can play around and my audience has given us permission.
Speaker: 0
20:17
Everyone who’s in here, we have the permission to kind of talk about whatever we wanna talk about. Yes.
Speaker: 4
20:21
You’re not worried about the title.
Speaker: 1
20:23
Yeah. Right. Yeah. And that that’s that’s sort of where I’m getting to. And the the other trend that Freeberg and I have been talking about, you know, we have this natural tension. We don’t have ads on the pod. On my other pod, it makes millions of dollars in ads this week in startups. And it that helps me have a team of nine people.
Speaker: 2
20:39
We like to throw good parties.
Speaker: 1
20:40
And we like to yeah. We we spent
Speaker: 2
20:43
We spent, like, a million, 2 million
Speaker: 1
20:46
ai on the Barbie party on the pier. Oh, we we spent
Speaker: 2
20:51
more this year. This year We did? Oh, my God. Fuck. Well, sai that’s a ai stuff. Let me just put a little plug in. This year, at the All In Summit in LA, the first night is sana be insane. Insane. Never it’s ai, everything last year ai. Like, yeah. It’s gonna be awesome.
Speaker: 2
21:09
Anyway
Speaker: 1
21:09
You I mean,
Speaker: 2
21:11
My job is to burn all the money. I’m like Jimmy of Meh. Beast. Like, let’s flip a coin and double it. Let’s double it. You know?
Speaker: 1
21:20
I kinda feel that that’s, like, what’s interesting when you have success as an artist is being able to deploy resources to make something that gives joy or that experience. Right? And I I because one of the the great things about the event is when people show up and they dress when when a party has a theme, great music, great people, and it’s in a really great location, something happens to me.
Speaker: 1
21:47
Has anybody been to one of the All In Summit parties? Raise your hand.
Speaker: 2
21:49
Open open arya.
Speaker: 5
21:51
Open bar.
Speaker: 1
21:51
Well, that was
Speaker: 2
21:52
Takeout fought me on the open bar. I’m like, you gotta have a
Speaker: 1
21:54
cold ai. My thing was wine and beer and, like, a couple of cocktails, but this guy is like, he’s a bit of a lush and he’s like, we gotta have, like, all the high end stuff.
Speaker: 2
22:01
Wine and wine.
Speaker: 1
22:02
And then what happens is the last hour of the car
Speaker: 2
22:03
Jason thinks everyone’s ai sipping champagne looking in the sunset.
Speaker: 1
22:06
No. People are pounding double Macallan eighteens because they’re like, I gotta get my money’s worth and then I all of a sudden I’m Ai in a headlock getting somebody’s taking a selfie. I’m like, I’m a friend, Jekah. I love you. Yeah. What do you think of the the phenomenon now of building audience to distribute a product?
Speaker: 1
22:27
Because this is infected
Speaker: 2
22:29
This is a great by the way, let let’s just ask the broader question. What’s the business model? You have a new creator. They’re starting to build an audience. Advise them on what are the paths they can walk and where that can go. Because this is one of the paths. It’s a great one that we’re talking about.
Speaker: 2
22:42
But, like, shah are the options and when does one become an option?
Speaker: 0
22:46
Sure. I mean, no matter what, everyone is making videos, attracting an audience, and selling a product. That product is either theirs or it’s someone else’s. Like, if we go back in the history of media, why are they called soap operas? They were literally created to sell soap.
Speaker: 5
23:01
Yes.
Speaker: 0
23:01
Right? And sai, I I think,
Speaker: 2
23:03
Is that right?
Speaker: 0
23:04
That is right. Yeah. Interesting.
Speaker: 1
23:05
Ivory sai was like the the car companies Ai right back there. Ivory soap were the, with the big sponsors
Speaker: 2
23:10
that we are.
Speaker: 0
23:11
Yeah. No. Ai, like, the the it was it was programming that was created to attract a specific audience that was interested in buying soap.
Speaker: 2
23:17
Totally. Yeah. Right?
Speaker: 0
23:17
And so that’s why the programming happened in the middle of the day. And so the the reality is like You could say housewives at
Speaker: 1
23:24
that time. Nobody’s sana think you’re a misogynist. It’s ai, you said it,
Speaker: 0
23:27
not meh. But, you know I
Speaker: 1
23:28
mean, at the time, that was the nuclear family.
Speaker: 0
23:31
Yeah. That was nuclear family, and that’s that’s why they were called soap operas. Yeah. So, you know, the reality is for a young creator, I would say that the number one piece of advice is actually keep your operation lean and your cost very low. Most great creators can create if you’re a good storyteller, you can make videos right now on the Internet with your iPhone.
Speaker: 0
23:49
The number one thing you have to think about is the audience that you are engaging. Because at the core of it, your product Mhmm. Is your relationship with the audience. It’s the trust that you have with the audience. Right. And so that takes a long time to build.
Speaker: 0
24:03
Some creators make the mistake of of raising money to start making their content or some creators make the mistake of hiring a big staff. That creates too much overhead. You’re sana start doing deals that maybe you don’t sana do. You need cash to finance your content. First and foremost, it’s like keep it lean, make good stuff, find the audience. Your first hundred videos are gonna suck.
Speaker: 0
24:22
Just build until you find the audience that you want.
Speaker: 2
24:26
Yep. And then the
Speaker: 0
24:27
business models will start to, emerge. Whether that’s, hey, you know what? I built a great brand and part of my content I’m Emma Chamberlain and part of my content is I drink coffee every day. So maybe I should launch a coffee brand. I take the coffee that I’m drinking every day.
Speaker: 2
24:40
Meaning meaning make your own brand. Yeah. Right.
Speaker: 0
24:43
And that that’s but that’s hard. That means you have, like, critical mass, big scale. You’re reaching millions and millions.
Speaker: 2
24:49
The cost challenge, but payoff is higher. Yeah. And that’s the big It can be. Ai?
Speaker: 1
24:53
It can be. I think
Speaker: 0
24:54
CPG is really It’s
Speaker: 5
24:55
all predicated
Speaker: 1
24:55
Yeah. On connecting with an audience first. So the ai, I think, what I’m hearing is, hey. Connect with the audience and put on the back half of your career monetization, but just connect. And and Marquez, I don’t know if you ever seen, his early reviews.
Speaker: 0
25:13
Of course. Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
25:13
I mean, it’s hilarious. He’s like, how old is he? 15, 16, 17 years old? And he’s like, I’m using this phone. It’s the iPhone four.
Speaker: 2
25:20
Jimmy’s first videos are still up on YouTube. Yeah. Meh. Beast’s first videos. He’s still
Speaker: 1
25:23
up there.
Speaker: 2
25:23
You gotta go watch him.
Speaker: 1
25:24
I mean, I watched one of them. It’s him counting to 10,000, I think.
Speaker: 2
25:27
Under That was that by the way, that was a later video. His very first video, ai gotta go watch like the
Speaker: 4
25:32
first ten videos. I mean, he’s playing video games. He can’t
Speaker: 2
25:34
even see his face. You’re like,
Speaker: 4
25:35
what? Yeah. And he’s speaking
Speaker: 2
25:36
speaking he’s gotta become the most famous person in the world from from that. But you can see the evolution.
Speaker: 0
25:40
Yeah. He watches paint dry in a video. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
25:42
He watches paint.
Speaker: 2
25:42
Like a
Speaker: 0
25:42
twenty hour long video. Yeah. But,
Speaker: 2
25:45
Just to go back to the question, isn’t one of the other paths selling your content? So now we’re seeing a bunch of deals. Jimmy’s getting a deal from Amazon. Amazon paid him for the Beast Games. We’re seeing more comedians that do live shows getting deals with Netflix. We’re seeing a bunch more of those happen.
Speaker: 2
26:04
We’re seeing, Hulu and other platforms start to bid. Even X might be doing some more content deals with, folks that look more like journalists. Sai, ultimately, how do you decide whether I want to monetize by ads and making a product or is there becoming a more liquid market for selling my content onto bigger platforms that are losing their audience to be independent and they need to basically go rebuild an audience?
Speaker: 2
26:29
Ai that a realistic path or is that just like the cream of the cream meh to have access to ai of I think
Speaker: 4
26:34
that’s a realistic path for the top. Maybe you
Speaker: 2
26:36
could talk about the Spotify thing.
Speaker: 4
26:37
Especially if we’re talking about streaming. I think it’s a realistic path for the top. And I I don’t look at it as ai selling content. I look at it as selling distribution. Ai. Like bringing distribution and audience because the ads get layered on. To these platforms. Right. Yeah.
Speaker: 4
26:48
I mean What
Speaker: 0
26:49
about amazing digital circuits?
Speaker: 4
26:50
Circus. Yeah. I think where it’s probably going in an interesting case study there’s a YouTube channel called Amazing Digital Circus, which is an animated channel and they did a deal that is super unique. I think the first of its kind where they will be distributing on Netflix at the same exact time as they distribute on YouTube.
Speaker: 4
27:05
So Netflix licensed the content and it’s coming out at the same time.
Speaker: 2
27:09
Ai that’s It’s not their content. It’s not proprietary to Netflix.
Speaker: 4
27:12
No. Right. It’s licensed. Sai in that regard he’s making money on advertising.
Speaker: 2
27:17
But he wouldn’t be getting he’s not getting paid as much or they’re not getting paid as much as if they sold the content and the rights to Netflix. Is that right?
Speaker: 0
27:24
Yeah. And Maybe if it
Speaker: 4
27:25
was, like, an original. Yeah. I guess if it was exclusive.
Speaker: 1
27:27
But this is a watershed moment in many ways because Netflix was really about them being the tastemaker. It’s them underwriting it.
Speaker: 2
27:35
That’s right.
Speaker: 1
27:36
You know, at least in this, like, Netflix post licensing DVDs, then they became the creators, the arbiters, and now they’re going back in some ways to sai, we’re gonna cherry pick people off of YouTube, give them money for their quarter billion subscribers. It’s sai really fascinating moment.
Speaker: 3
27:55
I think
Speaker: 0
27:55
probably that if you’ve seen the Nielsen ratings of connected TV usage, YouTube’s at the top vatsal 11%. Right? It’s the most used streaming app on connected TVs. Netflix is at 8.5%. And in December, after Beast Games, Thursday Night Football, and that movie that they did with The Rock, Amazon
Speaker: 2
28:12
They’ve made a move.
Speaker: 0
28:12
Moved up to 4%. Right? So but YouTube Netflix moved up, you mean? No. Amazon Prime Video moved to 4%.
Speaker: 1
28:20
Full makeup of that.
Speaker: 0
28:20
8.5 sana YouTube but YouTube’s at 11%. Right? Like Right. The reality is, there’s a really interesting quote from Ted Sarandos when Netflix won, their first Emmy for House of Cards. Because Netflix was an aggregator beforehand. Ai? So Netflix goes from aggregator, starts producing original programming, and it was a massive moment when they won an Emmy because that was pretty new that some Internet tech company can win an Emmy.
Speaker: 2
28:42
That’s very strange.
Speaker: 0
28:43
And Ted Sarandos said television is television. It doesn’t matter which pipe brings it forward. And I think it’s a really important thing that the major difference when it comes to YouTube is Netflix is sana spend 18,000,000,000 on content this year. YouTube doesn’t spend on content. YouTube does a revenue share. They actually technically don’t know what’s gonna get uploaded today, and it could be the biggest video of the day.
Speaker: 0
29:03
It could be something like Amazing Digital Circus that did 500,000,000 views across three episodes. Wow.
Speaker: 1
29:08
It’s also interesting Netflix I’m sorry. YouTube premium Yeah. Taking the ads out is at a 10
Speaker: 0
29:14
125,000,000 subscribers.
Speaker: 2
29:16
That’s
Speaker: 1
29:16
a 25 now. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
29:17
And YouTube broke on a hundred TV.
Speaker: 1
29:18
How many people here pay for Netflix Meh or the premium version that takes out the ads?
Speaker: 0
29:24
YouTube tube meh? Oh, YouTube premium.
Speaker: 2
29:26
YouTube premium. YouTube premium.
Speaker: 1
29:27
Yeah. YouTube premium. How many people here are YouTube red? Wow. That’s pretty significant. It’s like a third of the audience. And what is that? $12?
Speaker: 0
29:34
It’s, like, $20. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
29:35
It’s $20 now?
Speaker: 2
29:36
ai.
Speaker: 1
29:36
I think it’s the best $20 I ai on it.
Speaker: 0
29:38
Sai agree.
Speaker: 2
29:38
How do the, the ai that are losing audience, which are the traditional broadcasters, how are they gonna respond as their audience gets attrited away? Like, we’re seeing as long form is taking up more time and attention from the independents, Fox News is losing an audience. CNN is losing an audience.
Speaker: 2
29:57
MSNBC is losing an audience. I mean their audiences are gone. Like they’re just vaporizing right now. What are they sana do? They’ve got a lot of cash.
Speaker: 2
30:04
They’ve got a lot of advertising dollars still flowing in for now.
Speaker: 0
30:08
Now. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
30:08
They’re well capitalized. They’ve got very motivated shareholders. What’s their response? If you guys are an executive running Fox, what would you do?
Speaker: 4
30:16
And we spoke about this recently. Yeah. But there already are some shows on cable that are starting to act more like digital channels, more like YouTube channels, right? Yeah. If you look at like Saturday Night Live Yes.
Speaker: 1
30:26
Or you
Speaker: 4
30:26
look at Late Ai. Those are actually just a bunch of segments that can work really well when uploaded to YouTube or to the Internet. And Ai think when you bring up Fox News, news is actually one of the last genres of cable to try and figure out or be able to figure out how to put themselves into segments that work at the twenty plus minute range, which is what’s working on YouTube right now.
Speaker: 2
30:49
But the long form is crushing too. Right? Like the hour long I mean our show is ninety minutes. Lex does three and a half ai.
Speaker: 4
30:57
I would say twenty plus.
Speaker: 2
30:58
Rogan’s like hours long and he’s number one.
Speaker: 4
31:00
When I say twenty plus I mean like that’s like the minimum.
Speaker: 2
31:02
I see what you’re saying.
Speaker: 4
31:03
It’s like 20 and continuing to go.
Speaker: 2
31:05
Yeah. Ai think so. But does that mean that they’re gonna try and license Rogan? They’re gonna try and license Lex? They’re gonna try and license one of these independents in? Is that the move that they’re gonna have to make ultimately?
Speaker: 0
31:15
That’s gonna be like a big changing of the guards because that’s like ai there’s like some risk mitigation that I don’t know if they would be comfortable with.
Speaker: 1
31:21
I mean, it’s
Speaker: 4
31:21
like Pat McAfee.
Speaker: 0
31:22
Yeah. I guess Pat McAfee is a good example on ESPN.
Speaker: 1
31:24
He’s a sports guy. Yeah. Yeah. Sports. So ESPN just picked him up.
Speaker: 0
31:27
Yeah. That’s
Speaker: 2
31:28
right. Yeah. And he does independent.
Speaker: 0
31:30
Well, he he came on to ESPN, but that also created some you know, ESPN tried something similar with Barstool a while ago. Right? And Barstool got taken off the air within an episode or two. Because again, there’s a risk factor. They said some stuff on air and they were like, we can’t we can’t do this. Get them off the air.
Speaker: 0
31:44
But McAfee is the more mature, you know, iteration of that as both spaces have kind of matured. That’s like a YouTube show that was brought to television. And McAfee is really good where he’s doing I don’t know if you guys saw the college game day stuff where he’s doing the big field goal kicks for a hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker: 0
31:58
Awesome. Essentially a YouTube title but built for TV that then gets clipped and put on to YouTube. Right? And so I think that’s that’s what Colin saying is
Speaker: 4
32:05
turn on ESPN at any moment ai it looks like you’re watching a podcast. Right. When you see his shah, the production
Speaker: 2
32:10
level is pretty low. They’re gonna so is is the media exec gonna go out and find the next or the up and coming and say I wanna bring you on. I’m gonna pay you to come and do this on my platform now. You’re gonna become a Fox News show. You’re gonna become an ESPN show.
Speaker: 0
32:23
They have to that that’s, like, they have to give irrational deals to creators.
Speaker: 2
32:26
Versus, like Right. Yeah. Versus the talent agent showing up and saying, here’s a good The
Speaker: 0
32:30
other problem is distribution. Sai, like, Jimmy, for example, like, Jimmy is yes. He’s in the media business, but he’s in the chocolate business. Right? And so being able to get to 200, three hundred million people in a video is really significant. And YouTube being at the top of the connected TV streaming apps, ai, you’d probably choose YouTube if you’re just going pure distribution.
Speaker: 0
32:51
If you’re selling a chocolate brand or some other type of CBG product, you choose distribution over not.
Speaker: 1
32:56
Totally. And so
Speaker: 0
32:57
I think when you’re getting offered a deal to go on to Fox News, do stuff on linear TV, it has to be such an irrational deal because it limits my distribution. Right? Even if I go on to a a Netflix, technically, I’m actually I’m limited in distribution if I’m Meh. Beast. Yep. Not if I’m another crew.
Speaker: 1
33:13
Also on the the money and control issues are also very acute. Ai when this week, when Starburst was doing good, right before All In started, I met with the SiriusXM team. Yeah. Ai. They were like, hey. You know, we think you might have some, like, Howard Stern potential.
Speaker: 1
33:27
And what if you got Travis from Uber, he was very hot at the time, and a couple of guys to come on and and do ai a, you know, round table thing and and make it fun? And then when I like, we started talking money, I was like, that’s less money than this week in startups makes already, and I own a % of it.
Speaker: 1
33:43
Would I own the IP here? And they’re like, well, no. No. We own the IP. And I’m like I mean, this is we’re talking six years ago, seven years ago.
Speaker: 1
33:49
And then even now, you know, once in a while, I’ll talk to CNBC or somebody and will come and say, hey. You know, you have any ideas? And I’m like, does it economically make sense for a creator who has escape velocity to go backwards? And I I I wonder, Freyberg, if the answer to this question is anybody who is actually talented enough, ai a Megyn Kelly or, you know, somebody who like mister Beast or even, Tucker Carlson, like, how could they ever go back to Fox now?
Speaker: 1
34:22
Right? At the
Speaker: 2
34:22
point, I don’t think they will. I think Well, you’d have to entropy, it’s only going in one direction. I think their audience erodes, their advertising dollars erode, and then they’re getting whatever broadcasting distribution deals they have on cable are gonna slowly be worth less.
Speaker: 2
34:37
I don’t know what it’s gonna be worth.
Speaker: 1
34:38
I think Colin isn’t this Colin, like, because Fox Fox and SiriusXM and CNBC have a cost infrastructure. So when they meet talent, they’re like, talent gets 20%, and then we need to get our 20%. And then the other 60% has to go to
Speaker: 2
34:54
The shareholders.
Speaker: 1
34:55
Yeah. And the building and and the 50 fucking camera operators
Speaker: 2
34:58
and the bryden. % right. The model’s broken.
Speaker: 0
35:01
The model’s totally broken. Your guys’ shows, it’s on it arya on Zoom. We talked about this in the context of creators, like, ai vatsal advice to a up and coming creators. It’s the same it’s the same advice. Keep your overhead cost extremely low. Creators are the startups of Hollywood. We always say, like, think out on a fifty two week schedule.
Speaker: 1
35:16
Yeah.
Speaker: 0
35:16
Could you do this every week week for fifty two weeks? Yeah. If you’re someone who loves to set up cameras and lights, sure, you might be able to do that. But if you’re You’re
Speaker: 2
35:23
a % right.
Speaker: 0
35:23
Busy people, you’re like, yeah. We can hop on Zoom every week for fifteen minutes.
Speaker: 2
35:26
If this if this if it were like what you’re describing, there’s no freaking way I’d do it. Like Exactly. Zero chance. Like, I the only reason I do it is because I can get on Zoom for ninety minutes and be bryden, and then I go on to the rest of my day for work. Like
Speaker: 1
35:37
The the turning point of the pod really was when, you know, used to run out of my operation. And I said, the guys have to commit to Thursday’s the same time. We cannot if this is gonna work, everybody has to agree that Thursday’s at 11AM Pacific arya sacrosanct. And, everybody agreed. Meh all blocked it out.
Speaker: 1
35:55
We all blocked it out, and we sai, no. If anybody has to move, then we go to our list of, you know, fifth besties, six besties, and we rotate them in. But we’re not gonna, like, move around Chamath’s schedule or my schedule for free breakfast. And that’s when the show really, ai,
Speaker: 2
36:11
actually Let me let me take the conversation in the opposite direction now, which is we’re going from, like, points of high low leverage Fox News, lots of cameras, lots of buildings, expenses, to low leverage being on Zoom and a laptop to let me talk about the lower leverage. Are you guys seeing any success in Gen Ai only content channels out there?
Speaker: 2
36:34
And maybe you could talk about, as Gen AI gets better and better and better, do we have agents that ingest the news, ingest content, ingest data, repackage it, and then create new versions of through an iterative process to ai of hack the algorithm to figure out how do I get stuff that people stay on, what’s the right cut rate, what’s the right color balance, what’s the right sound, what’s the right audio, what’s the right music.
Speaker: 2
36:58
And ultimately the Meh Sai ai what great content creators like Jimmy took ten years to do in a couple weeks and ultimately creates ai a whole new category and I’m just thinking ahead here now. But ai maybe you tyler us today on the ground if you’re seeing any Meh AI that’s like got realistic traction out there.
Speaker: 4
37:16
For me personally, there’s no Gen channels that are a % Gen AI that I am watching or at least that I know of, that I’m consuming and that I’m enjoying. But I mean, even within our organization and with a lot of other creators, the amount of AI tools that we’re using from like scripting to even cutting the angles on our shah, ai, we’re continually adopting more and more AI tools and I think, which
Speaker: 2
37:38
is the way it should
Speaker: 4
37:39
be, the audience Ai don’t think even really can tell. Yeah. Right? So it’s like slowly seeping in. Into production.
Speaker: 1
37:45
Yeah. But not taking it over.
Speaker: 0
37:46
Have you played with notebook l m?
Speaker: 1
37:48
Yes. So It’s pretty amazing.
Speaker: 0
37:50
My vatsal point with the first time I fed a PDF into notebook l m was the Spotify earnings report. And I was ai, I’m at I have a twenty minute ai. I wanna cure this. And it was nine minutes and it was perfect. Yeah. And you can if you don’t know what notebook LM is, it’s a project by Google. You can you can feed in a bunch of text, it’ll turn into audio.
Speaker: 0
38:08
It’ll have two hosts. They host it like a podcast. Yeah. So then I started to think, okay, well actually you can just custom make yourself a podcast for your ai. Right? And go, hey. I’m I’m driving thirty minutes.
Speaker: 0
38:20
I wanna know about the NFL scores. I wanna know about the Netflix earnings call. Right. And I’m also interested in what’s going on in the world of the creator economy. And all of a sudden you have a aggregate of news and and articles, and it gets turned into audio, and it’s compelling and
Speaker: 2
38:35
Does that replace the time that you would otherwise spend listening to podcasts and watching videos?
Speaker: 0
38:40
It’s a more so sai what’s interesting about Meh Ai content I found, especially with notebook Ai, is it’s a more efficient way to consume content. But I don’t think we prioritize efficiency always as humans.
Speaker: 2
38:50
Oh, of course. Well, this is what
Speaker: 1
38:51
that would be ai, saloni, you know, it’s ai, well, this is
Speaker: 2
38:55
Easy, Jacob.
Speaker: 1
38:55
No no offense, Ai. But I’m just saying like this nutty pudding concept, my wife makes me the nutty pudding. I’m like, you know what? I kinda want the regular pudding. Right.
Speaker: 2
39:02
Anyway, I
Speaker: 1
39:02
know it’s healthier. But this is it kinda takes out the spontaneity of what you know, if you want that NBA content, I I watched this Knicks thing, Knicks fan TV. Yeah. And this guy takes all the clips. And last night, the Knicks won in ai. The Kell Bryden is amazing buzzer beater.
Speaker: 1
39:23
And I was as excited to open up Knicks fan TV
Speaker: 0
39:27
Right.
Speaker: 1
39:28
You know, when he comes on fifteen minutes after the game and watch the community’s reaction to it. And every time the Knicks win, I will give a hundred dollar tip in a super chat. I probably give 2 or $3,000 a year just to support this creator because it reminds me of WFAN in New York, and he has all these regular callers.
Speaker: 1
39:46
It is such a spectacular product. And then I noticed that Ai, like, into Corvettes, and I’m in the YouTube thing, and I got the Corvettes in my sai. Right? And this motherfuckers are, like, creating fake AI Corvette announcements that aren’t real, and they’re using generative AI. And they’re saying, the new z r 17. And I’m like, what?
Speaker: 1
40:07
I’m gonna get the ZR 1. And then it’s just there’s a 17. I click on this thing, and it’s just AI voice. Chevy Corvettes are known for having the greatest danger in America.
Speaker: 2
40:17
But that’s the thing.
Speaker: 1
40:17
But that’s today. Block that motherfucker. No. But that’s today. Block that channel.
Speaker: 2
40:20
So look. You’re right.
Speaker: 1
40:23
But I trip. I hit the triple dot. Bam.
Speaker: 2
40:26
Look. I would be less dismissive. As we all know, every month, we’re a little more surprised by what Gen Ai can do and the power of it. There’s a really important human directorial role in the early days of this Gen AI revolution, and I think that it enables an incredible fragmentation of media even more than we’re seeing today in their creator economy.
Speaker: 2
40:46
Maybe you end up getting your personal news feed with the newscaster or the podcaster or the Knicks superfans reading to you what happened at the game last ai, that’s meh AI completely. And it’s indistinguishable from reality. That’s where I think things may get a little more funky in the next couple years.
Speaker: 2
41:04
I don’t think it’s like
Speaker: 0
41:05
that far. Also ai this kind of move far move away from monoculture into ai %. Extreme ai, which kind of already existed. Each of us opens our phones.
Speaker: 2
41:14
Ai got a point of view on this one, which is like Ai ahead. I do think that there’s, shared cultural facts, but different cultural experience of the facts. Meaning, like, the the game is the game, but the commentator that tells me about the game is different.
Speaker: 3
41:30
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
41:30
And that’s where I think this all plays out,
Speaker: 1
41:32
where
Speaker: 2
41:32
I’m gonna have, like, my own tuned broadcaster. She could be really beautiful. I don’t know. And she could be really cool.
Speaker: 1
41:39
Oh, easy. Hey, who?
Speaker: 2
41:40
Shah could be talking to me, you know, one on one. I don’t know. It could be really weird. It’s really funny. I actually I get on, on, chat GPT Advanced Voice, and I have this female voice. And when my wife’s in the car, I start recording. I’m like, ai. I’m
Speaker: 1
41:51
like, hey.
Speaker: 2
41:52
I’m like, hey, baby. What’s going on? And my wife gets so upset. Yeah. I was about to say, Free
Speaker: 1
41:56
and Berg, as your counsel,
Speaker: 2
41:57
I’m gonna go ahead
Speaker: 5
41:58
and advise
Speaker: 1
41:58
you to
Speaker: 2
41:59
not share this problem with you. I know
Speaker: 1
42:00
what you’re saying.
Speaker: 2
42:00
And I think that’s where it might start. Yeah. By the way, we’re gonna come back and talk again in a few minutes. But Colin and Sameer, thank you ai. Thank you guys. You guys are awesome.
Speaker: 0
42:07
Thanks so
Speaker: 1
42:08
much. Austin’s unique. K. There’s a lot of podcasters here. So, you know, I came to town. I got a lot of podcasting friends. And as you know, I’m podcast famous, which is the fame that goes right below reality television. And, we’re incredibly lucky because our next guest is both podcast famous and reality television famous, and he’s in Austin.
Speaker: 1
42:36
And, when I came here, I was like, you know, I’m gonna come here and I’m gonna hang with all my podcasting bros. So I texted Tim first. I was like, Tim, let’s, let’s get dinner. Tim’s like, yeah. I’m trying to find a girlfriend, ai, you know, I’m gonna try to grow up, make a baby, all this kind of stuff.
Speaker: 1
42:56
And so I’m I’m I’m out and about. I’m not in town. Then I I text I said, okay. Well, I’m o for one, but I’ll text Lex Freeman. Text Lex Freeman. He’s like, I’m having panic attacks. I don’t know. My life existential. I had Kanye on. You told me not to do it. He was.
Speaker: 1
43:15
You were ai, and then I had Zelensky.
Speaker: 2
43:18
I had Zelensky on, then
Speaker: 1
43:20
I had Putin on, everybody hates me, but everybody loves the pot, ai he’s a hot meh, and he’s like, I can’t find a girlfriend either. So then I text Chris Williamson and I’m like, hey, you know, let’s have dinner. He’s like, Jcow, let’s eat a steak. I need your help. I’m trying to find a girlfriend. And so ladies and gentlemen, Chris Williamson. We’re gonna find out.
Speaker: 5
43:47
It’s a good wingman. Good to see
Speaker: 1
43:49
you, bro. It’s a good wingman. Meh over here.
Speaker: 5
43:52
Come on.
Speaker: 1
43:53
Meh, you know, we, Chamath is off the ram, and now we’ve got a real man on the pod. Chris Williamson will be taking Chamath’s seat going forward. He’s so handsome. What’s going on? You and I had a little speak, and, I think you double booked, but I appreciate being the first seeding, on your Friday night.
Speaker: 1
44:14
You you went out I
Speaker: 5
44:15
think I’m sloppy thirds for this choice.
Speaker: 1
44:19
No no. We saved the best for last. There it is.
Speaker: 5
44:21
So it’s safe.
Speaker: 1
44:22
Yeah. Ai go I’m full. Charmer. That’s why you’re such a good wingman. I’m a I’m a I’m a solid wingman. I helped Meh out a bit, but, what’s going on on the dating front? Let’s be honest here. Did you where are you at? Because, a lot of ladies wanna know, is Chris Williamson still on the market or not? Not?
Speaker: 5
44:40
Off the market currently, but I did shave the handlebar mustache, which I think sort of straightened me up as well. People were worried about that.
Speaker: 1
44:45
He shows up for our state dinner with the porn stash of all porn stashes. It’s unbelievable, this handlebar thing. And I was like, you know, Chris, we don’t know each other. Whatever. Are you straight? It’s ai, has an arrow. Ai said
Speaker: 5
44:58
50% of the meal asking me whether I’m straight. That kind of sounded a little bit like a wishful thinking after the lady doffing ai a bit.
Speaker: 1
45:04
There was ai window. Facial hair. I felt there was a window. But you started in reality TV. Yeah?
Speaker: 5
45:11
Technically, I suppose so. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
45:12
I mean, that’s how you got your first taste of media and fame. Yeah? You were on Love Island?
Speaker: 5
45:17
That would be fact. Meh. I I actually did a reality TV show before that. I have an illustrious history of reality TV. Oh, okay.
Speaker: 1
45:23
I
Speaker: 5
45:23
was a ai promoter, commercial model, DJ, reality TV. And,
Speaker: 2
45:28
that’s my career too, by the way. Ai was about to say it. Actually, I did a little summer
Speaker: 3
45:33
stock Is it pretty? Similar to your reality television.
Speaker: 5
45:37
Comedian told me the other day, commercial male model, club promoter, DJ, reality TV is otherwise known as cunt bingo.
Speaker: 1
45:46
Shah, yes. That’s right. Yes. Absolutely.
Speaker: 5
45:51
So I had a full house. And, yeah. Look. Did some reality TV stuff that was, kind of like an existential crisis that was captured on television twenty four hours a day, being trapped in a a house for a little while. And then got toward the end of my twenties, and Rogan, Sam Harris, Alain de Botton from the School of Life, Bryden Peterson are all coming to the front, and I thought, wow.
Speaker: 5
46:14
I’m learning a lot from these people. I’m less of an adult infant as I was when I first started listening to them. Maybe if I started my own show, I would be able to have these sorts of conversations. They felt really nourishing to meh. And, 900 episodes and a billion and a bit downloads.
Speaker: 2
46:30
Did you think about it did you think about it as an interview show? Were you ai, I wanna interview people, or were you like, I wanna explore the world, or I wanna teach people, or what what was the kind of
Speaker: 5
46:38
I had nothing to teach people.
Speaker: 2
46:40
Right.
Speaker: 5
46:40
And how do
Speaker: 2
46:40
you yeah.
Speaker: 5
46:42
So it was very much, yeah, I’m gonna find these interesting people who understand how the world works. I wanna understand myself and the world around me. And, but you start off with who you’ve got around you, your friends. You know, like Kai Wei, the guy that invite invented the ai phone.
Speaker: 5
46:55
He was episode 10, so super obsessed with, digital minimalism and what social media was doing to our brains. And then there was a season of relationships and a season of health and fitness and there was a season of evil evolutionary psychology. So it’s a it’s a thinly veiled autobiography, which I actually think a lot of people’s sort of true bodies of work are.
Speaker: 5
47:12
If you’re following your instinct, you just it’s a little trail of breadcrumbs of where your mind was at at that time.
Speaker: 1
47:18
Yeah. And you figured out the great hack of podcasting, which is if you wanna learn really quick, if you hang out with smart people and you ask them very simple questions and and you you’re present and you listen to the answers, maybe you’re really good at the follow-up question, by the way, which is always how Ai judge an interviewer, how how good they are at being present and not being ai, okay.
Speaker: 1
47:39
Question number one, done. Check. Now let’s go to number two. You’re really good at listening and and finding that next question. But you you it is such an amazing hack to learn. Right?
Speaker: 1
47:50
And and to to build a network and to even build a group
Speaker: 5
47:53
of friends. Look. I always felt reticent that I did business at university. I did two business degrees, including a ai, and I can’t remember anything from either of them. I spent a lot of time partying. Again, club promoter. Bingo. And I always thought, I wish I’d gone and done psychology.
Speaker: 5
48:08
I wish I’d sort of followed something more approximating a passion or or philosophy or sociology or something. And then I realized a couple years ago, I was like, well, you have done that. You’ve got to design your own degree, only speaking to the best in their field about the very specific niche part of their topic that you want to learn on your terms with no coursework or homework beyond what you want to do, and you get to call it a job.
Speaker: 5
48:32
So whatever version of the simulation that we’re in at the moment, I need to sort of thank the designer because Yeah. It’s wild that I get to call this a career.
Speaker: 1
48:39
It’s, I think we all feel that way, in in many respects. Tell me about, you know, Sam’s a good friend of mine. We have we had the same book agent for a long ai. And, I remember I had him on my ai, and he said, what’s podcasting? And I explained it to him, and he said, well, how do I do it? And I said, well, you get two microphones and a guest.
Speaker: 1
48:59
And he’s like, then what? I’m like, well, then we hit the record button, and and I helped him start the the pod. What arya your thoughts on what he’s done and his influence? Because I know you you’ve really, had him you’ve had him on a couple of times. Yeah?
Speaker: 5
49:13
No. He’s been on once.
Speaker: 1
49:14
Only once. Okay.
Speaker: 5
49:15
Yeah. Yeah. His wife’s been on as well.
Speaker: 1
49:17
Oh, Annika’s been on as well. Yeah. She’s fantastic. So tell me about your favorite guest, Sam Jordan Peterson. I know it’s a bunch of he’s he’s pretty great.
Speaker: 2
49:27
Well,
Speaker: 5
49:27
it’s kind of like having issues from 900 children, I suppose. One of the most reliable guests, actually, a guy called Rory Sutherland. You know Rory? Love Rory. Amazing.
Speaker: 1
49:36
I’ve had a mom like that.
Speaker: 5
49:38
Know. Imagine a gruff, upper class British sweary uncle who also happens to be one of the best behavioral economists on the planet. So this guy understands consumer behavior like like nobody else. In fact, if you go into Ogilvy’s website and you look at the job description, on the board members, it sai, Rory Sutherland, vice chairman of Ogilvy Ai.
Speaker: 5
49:58
Rory got to design his own job title specifically sai no one actually knows what he does. And, he’s just he’s he’s fantastic. Just speaking to Jordan was great. Alain from the the school of life is just he sees the human condition very accurately. It’s fun.
Speaker: 5
50:12
You know, I get to indulge my own curiosities and and follow my instincts.
Speaker: 2
50:16
Do you think other people can do it, should do it? This is a big thing I see is, like, folks that wanna kinda create a business through this kind of new creator economy. There’s all these paths to monetization, build the audience. And they’re like, what I’ll do is I’ll go find people to interview and I’ll interview them.
Speaker: 2
50:33
What’s the barrier for folks? What makes folks really great at this? What’s the challenge in the business? And how do you kind of do it better than others? Like
Speaker: 5
50:41
Yeah. I think Christopher Hitchens says everyone has a buck in them, and for most, that’s where it should stay. And I wonder whether podcasting may be, something similar. But it’s certainly a skill set that you can develop. Look. I think the best thing is a project so personal to you that you would do it if nobody listened. Right.
Speaker: 5
51:03
And for me, if everybody switched off tomorrow, I did this when no one listened.
Speaker: 2
51:09
Your conversations with people that you were truly interested in learning from.
Speaker: 5
51:13
Right. It’s a private it’s a it’s an autobiography for me. It’s a repository of my own
Speaker: 2
51:18
I think that’s really interesting because it’s kind of like our podcast was us literally talking with each other about the things that were going on in the world and how we were maneuvering in COVID and talking about arya, stuff that we would literally do at the poker table.
Speaker: 5
51:31
Dude, look.
Speaker: 2
51:31
And then we just did it on Zoom and put it on the Internet.
Speaker: 5
51:33
All of the people that are here. I listen every week. I think the pod’s fantastic. I get to tune in and just listen to between three and five guys, depending on who’s available that week. Just have a hang, and it feels like you’re dropping in on precisely the poker table or the private room of the steak dinner.
Speaker: 5
51:49
And that’s why I think people are massive fans of the show because it feels like, I know. You you
Speaker: 2
51:55
Genuine, authentic conversations that you sana have as an individual that you’re interested in having.
Speaker: 5
52:01
Yeah. It’s like it’s like, if your friend list was just a little bit better educated than you. And you’re like, okay, I get to find out. It’s a little bit more elevated as a conversation. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
52:11
By the way, this is a little different than what we talked about, which is the other side of this, a creator economy, which is hacking an audience, making stuff for an audience, growing the audience, where your focus is on algorithmically, technically, tactically ai things that the audience likes and then focusing on those things and building from there. And this is a very different kind of tack. Both work.
Speaker: 1
52:30
This is the right tack by the way. Is to pursue your muse and to do something that’s authentically interesting to you.
Speaker: 2
52:37
But you and I both agree on, like, film and the importance of great film, and great directors are the ones that were left to fuck alone. You know? The the the great directors are the ones who got the deals with the studios where they were told they had complete creative control.
Speaker: 1
52:49
Final Cut.
Speaker: 2
52:50
Yeah. Final Cut.
Speaker: 5
52:51
Look. You can still play that game. I have two full time front catalog strategists and two back catalog strategists as well for YouTube. So we have a big team that’s playing the Algo game. They’re chopping down clips. Sai, look, I think that, what is it that Farris says about, in the short term, your results are determined by your intensity.
Speaker: 5
53:11
In the long term, your results are determined by your consistency, but don’t trade the latter for the former. Mhmm. And if you try and go too hard, if you try and do things where you’re being ventriloquized by the audience, I’m bryden try and reverse engineer what I think the audience wants from me, which means that if they stop loving you, not only do you not have the one thing you used to have, but you didn’t even make a body of work that you cared about either.
Speaker: 5
53:34
Sai you end up resenting the audience. And, yeah, for me, it’s kind of like a bulletproof strategy. You’re sana keep going for longer because you like what you do.
Speaker: 2
53:41
So can we talk about monetization, how you think about making money? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
53:44
And before we get to that, I just I I really wanna bang on this just a little bit more. You Yeah. You also made a decision. We were talking before about we did something lo fi to just get ourselves in the same space virtually with Zoom for a couple of hours. Your production quality is absolutely stunning. You care about aesthetics. You care about the lighting and the location. Mhmm. Just for the audience here, take us through that decision.
Speaker: 1
54:12
And I don’t I I don’t know the earliest part of the catalog and if you did it to that level. You have done some Zooms, I believe, because Rory is only available on Zoom. Mhmm. But but take me through the aesthetic choices you made, and why.
Speaker: 5
54:25
Yeah. So I realized about three years ago that most podcasters are something with a podcast. They’re a UFC fighter with a podcast. They’re a comedian with a podcast. They’re whatever. Investors with a podcast. Right? It’s not their profession. So I asked myself, what would it look like if we turned pro at being a podcaster?
Speaker: 5
54:43
And part of that is the lift needs to be very low for most people that are busy doing other things because they’re busy doing other things. So they can’t spend ages going towards this, you know, one big production. So I started working with cinematographers. I got one of the best directors of photography in America.
Speaker: 5
54:59
He’s out of Nashville. I got a producer. We got grips, gaffers. We started using location scouts. And we started to dial in a very specific look.
Speaker: 5
55:06
We started to use handheld cameras on tripods, monopods, dollies, doorways, dollies. We did the first ever five camera podcast on, LED video wall, the same technology that was used for The Mandalorian. And as we were talking live, the video, controller changed the scenes based on what we talked about.
Speaker: 5
55:27
So if we moved from a war story to a scary story in a spooky house, we went from, Afghan base with trucks driving around and helicopters coming in to a spooky house that had
Speaker: 2
55:38
This is, like, literally the opposite of what Calla did to me. We meh saying, with keep the budget low. So No. But it ai say
Speaker: 1
55:44
I mean, I just Yeah. Knowing what I know about production ai, that that sounds like you’re spending $30.40 dimes an episode.
Speaker: 5
55:51
It’s, yeah, it’s not far off that. We can get it down by squeezing here and there. Thankfully, my ai line producer is a sort of bully when it comes to trying to get that stuff down. But, look, Ai like pretty things, and I think that one way that you can excel is to stand out visually. Same one. Ai go around stage with.
Speaker: 5
56:10
Ai like things to look nice, and I didn’t see anyone that was really elevating the way that stuff looked.
Speaker: 1
56:17
Does it change the subject’s, mindset and the the interview itself when they when they see how beautiful it is? When they see the investment in it, does it change something in the subject?
Speaker: 5
56:31
So I I have this belief that at least in the world of podcasting, we’re sort of splitting into two directions at the moment. One of them is perhaps a little bit more elevated. It’s the Modern Wisdoms. It’s the Stephen Bartlets of the world. And then the other side is the more sort of low tech. It would be all in. It would be Matt and Shane Matt and Shane’s secret podcast.
Speaker: 5
56:49
And then, you know, you’ve got sort of a Rogan or a flagrant that sort of sits somewhere in the middle, which is good quality, not insane. It’s just facilitating the hang. Yeah. And, I think that barbelling both of those is a a good way to go. You can lean into the real sort of high end production stuff. And when the guest turns up and they’re like, wow.
Speaker: 5
57:07
We’re in, you know, 25,000 square foot warehouse in the middle of LA, and there’s a team of 15 people here, and there’s huge ai, and there’s guys holding dollies. Like, they lock in. You know, they’re really there to oh, this is an occasion. This isn’t me just turning up for a chat.
Speaker: 5
57:23
But that wouldn’t work for every type of show. In fact, what you want to do is facilitate a little bit more ease. So that’s why I still like doing stuff over Zoom or, I guess, like, Riverside or whatever we use, because I want to have that casual sort of converse. Not everyone wants to turn up and it feel like it’s, you know, the World Cup final of podcasting.
Speaker: 1
57:45
Yeah. Should we go to the monetization? So, like,
Speaker: 2
57:47
how do you how do you start thinking about building the business, high quality content, authentic content? Mhmm. Was it a conversation about, hey. Let me just put this out there, make ads, and I’ll figure it out later, or was it very deliberate? And how’s the model kind of evolving for you?
Speaker: 5
58:01
Yeah. So it was emergent over time. You start off just taking whoever you can get. A lot of supplement companies and teeth whitening companies, whatever whatever’s You
Speaker: 2
58:10
read ads? Yeah. And they come in or you call out?
Speaker: 5
58:13
I did outreach for the first five or 600 episodes of the show. So I was managing my own ads. I was sending the invoices. I was slowly scaling up to CPMs. And you can get between a $15.25 dollar CPM, something like that, audio only. I made the commitment not to do ads on YouTube because if it was a virtual episode, it felt like it was such a low lift that that kind of didn’t justify making people sit through baked in ads, at least on YouTube, but we got away with it.
Speaker: 2
58:39
Where you have the option to turn them off?
Speaker: 5
58:41
No. These are hard coded into the, file itself.
Speaker: 2
58:44
The coded in.
Speaker: 3
58:45
Yeah.
Speaker: 5
58:45
So you’re just yeah. That that’s what’s referred to as baked in. And then look. We’ve got ourselves to the stage now where we have some pretty interesting setups. I think I’m one of the only podcasters that does this where we sell an entire ecosystem. So if you come on board as one of what we call our flagship partners, you get a set of impressions across the entire tyler, let’s say, 40,000,000, 60 million impressions.
Speaker: 5
59:07
Then you get, a number of Instagram story sequences on my Instagram. You’ll get newsletter drops on my newsletter, which has got 300,000 subs and a 50% open rate, lots of click through on that. And then maybe I’ll come speak at your AGM or I’ll do something else, and we build out big package.
Speaker: 1
59:23
That will elevate the level of the partner too because they’re being thoughtful. So you’re going to remove the nickeling, diming people who should just be buying cost per quick ads on a, you know, meh. And now you’ve got people who are actually thinking about their brand and what they want their brand associated with.
Speaker: 1
59:43
Ai mean, Function Health, who Ai think are
Speaker: 5
59:45
on here somewhere. We did a
Speaker: 1
59:46
two year deal with them.
Speaker: 5
59:47
Yeah. And, I love what they do. I use them to track my blood work, and I thought, why would I not want to be in bed with a company that I use all the time?
Speaker: 1
59:53
Absolutely. Yeah. Sai mean, in in our case, it’s
Speaker: 5
59:55
And you deepen the relationship as well. So, Element, James from Element, if there’s something he wants to talk about to do with brand, have a good insight when it comes to brand, especially from a creator sai ai ad reads. And I’ll happily just, you know, do a couple of hours of work.
Speaker: 5
01:00:08
This is what we’ve seen that’s been working
Speaker: 2
01:00:09
since the beginning.
Speaker: 1
01:00:10
When we were talking
Speaker: 2
01:00:10
about the old media model. I’m new to all this stuff, so I’m not, like, big in this podcasting space but I just observe. So maybe what I say is super reductive and obvious but it’s like you got these pharmaceutical ads on Fox News and it’s in and it’s in between the segments and no one on the none of the anchors give a shit about the pharmaceutical ad nor do they talk about or promote it and have no connection to it.
Speaker: 2
01:00:31
There’s no authenticity to it. But here, there’s an opportunity to be selective and to have it be part of the content, part of the experience, and it actually probably does better as a result with the audience Mhmm. Than you would get with that, you know, have you talked to your doctor about?
Speaker: 2
01:00:44
Ai, like, or
Speaker: 0
01:00:46
whatever it is.
Speaker: 5
01:00:46
In the same way you know what it is? In the same way as following your instincts on the show when it comes to what you talk about, if you can get yourself to the luxurious position where you get to choose your partners Yeah. As well, Every single product that I partner with, I use.
Speaker: 2
01:01:00
So let’s talk about So you got leverage in the Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:01:03
We Yeah. Ai advertising was something we started on this week and started arya from the beginning, which was if I don’t use the product or don’t like it, we we turn it down. We turn down all kinds of crazy offers from, you know, services that you’ll hear. Like, I was I was on Megyn Kelly and I heard her read one of two of these ads, and I was like, god, I would never read that ad because I know that if you type in that product and scam or complaints, it’ll be ai a long list of people complaining about it.
Speaker: 1
01:01:33
And then we were talking about her business and she’s using a third party agency to sell her partnerships. And I said, Meghan, you’re Meghan Kelly. Like, just get two ad reps to and partnership people, and you have to build that leg of the stool. You you’ve got the content. You’ve got the distribution.
Speaker: 1
01:01:50
You’ve got the ai, the partners. You have to have all three of the stool or else
Speaker: 2
01:01:53
Let me ask let me ask all these guys two questions.
Speaker: 1
01:01:56
Who would you turn down, like, advertising wise?
Speaker: 3
01:01:59
Look. Category.
Speaker: 1
01:02:00
Just tell me the category.
Speaker: 5
01:02:01
Anything anything which is to do with investing. We’ve said no to
Speaker: 1
01:02:05
Buy gold.
Speaker: 5
01:02:05
Jonathan meh Jonathan ai aunt’s guy stood there and he hates it because, you know, these guys are prepared to spend big money. Yeah. So you don’t
Speaker: 2
01:02:11
want your customers losing money, being upset at you, if so, you know, to
Speaker: 5
01:02:15
Ai I can’t I don’t have the chops to be able to assess whether or not this bank or this new investment opportunity can you turn your Roth IRA into a five zero one k backed by I don’t know. I have no idea. And I hear these things and I go, Ben Shapiro, you don’t know ai.
Speaker: 1
01:02:28
So Right.
Speaker: 2
01:02:28
Ai interesting. Yeah. Well, let let’s sai let me ask you guys both a question. In the old Internet world, there were these companies that emerged within DoubleClick, Accontive that were the site rep firms. Sai, there were a lot of independent websites out there. They didn’t have the most sophisticated sales force. They couldn’t go hire the two great sales reps to go do the work and dial in.
Speaker: 2
01:02:49
There wasn’t a very liquid market. So the site rep firms would rep your ai. They would go out and get ads. Do you see more of those kind of emerging today? Are they getting more sophisticated?
Speaker: 2
01:02:58
Are they getting better to enable smaller creators to be able to kind of be successful in this space right now?
Speaker: 5
01:03:03
Maybe. I mean, I think it’s it’s a difficult
Speaker: 2
01:03:06
And you’ve never done it.
Speaker: 1
01:03:09
Finish your thought, and then I’ll ai mine. Yeah.
Speaker: 5
01:03:11
It’s a difficult game to play because people can go to creators of sort of around about my sai, and it’s very reliable. You know what you’re going to get in terms of plays. You know what you’re going to get in terms of demographic. But the shows that are smaller are growing, so you don’t actually know what it is that you’re going to get.
Speaker: 5
01:03:26
Sai maybe you can bundle all of these guys together into some weird sort of dispersed multichannel network type thing, and they will bulk be sold by some company that sits above them. But it’s it’s so effortful. And when you think some podcast is gonna do 25,000 plays
Speaker: 2
01:03:41
Totally.
Speaker: 5
01:03:41
You’ve sana go through all the rigmarole and the red tape and the ad read to hit 25,000 people. Mhmm. Or you could go to Rogan and hit, like, a hundred, a thousand times that.
Speaker: 2
01:03:50
Have you ever used ai reps?
Speaker: 1
01:03:52
No. Or or a bad rep? I always hated the concept even when we’re doing blogs because, yeah, you you wind up if you’re gonna take it seriously and you wanna make it into a great effort, I think you you have to have that relationship and not somebody mitigating it.
Speaker: 2
01:04:09
Right.
Speaker: 1
01:04:09
I I think it’s better to just focus on the content until you hit, to to Chris’s point, the the reach that is necessary to have people calling you on the phone and then being able to choose it. And there’s other monetization that’s available now, merchandising, creating premium content that people can do. And sai it’s just those are those are better avenues Right.
Speaker: 1
01:04:31
Than using these rep firms. And the rep firms, it’s a terrible business because if you do your job and you actually do make money and the creator does break out, then they will leave you ai Megyn Kelly will leave hers or Totally. Tucker this I don’t know what the the one that does all the Tucker Carlson and and all those folks, but I’m just shah.
Speaker: 1
01:04:49
Like, Tucker and Megan were getting paid $10.20, $30,000,000 a year. They can afford to have one or two ad people doing this for them and not giving 40% to somebody. And it it just corrupts the whole relationship.
Speaker: 2
01:05:01
Let meh ask you guys both another question. So you you’ve now got a great content creation engine, which is you. You have a great content creation at This Week in Startups, which is you. And then you got this advertiser sai up, so you got ad dollars coming in. How do you get leverage so that it’s nonlinear? Any great business has a nonlinear scaling function.
Speaker: 2
01:05:20
And in your business you guys are limited and you know this is something we’ve talked with Jimmy at Meh. Beast about. Ai if it’s just you making the content you can only make x number of units of content per month per year. So that limits the scalability of the revenue for your organization in terms of how big this can get.
Speaker: 2
01:05:37
Do you ever think about creating leverage in the system, where you do almost like what a Spielberg does with an Amblin Entertainment, or any great director or producer does, where they scale up, they become the producer. They create
Speaker: 5
01:05:46
a network.
Speaker: 2
01:05:47
They create a network, they create a studio model. And then you have several content shows that are under your ram. And at what have you ever thought about that? Is that kind of the the model where this is eventually gonna go where some of the great breakouts are gonna end up realizing they can kinda scale up and build the next studio model?
Speaker: 5
01:06:01
If you want to do that, then fine. But I have no desire to start managing a ton of other content creators. Managing myself is
Speaker: 1
01:06:07
how What if you still
Speaker: 2
01:06:08
did your show, but you have others that you kind of bet on, basically?
Speaker: 5
01:06:10
Perhaps. I guess. It’s it just doesn’t speak to me all that much. And I think the question is, what do you need this additional money for? Like, what is it that you just need to continue to build, like, more and more profit?
Speaker: 2
01:06:20
Right.
Speaker: 5
01:06:20
Because I I quite like where I’m at. I quite like the the level of revenue that I make, the workload that I have, the fact that I get to spend a morning reading
Speaker: 1
01:06:29
Right.
Speaker: 5
01:06:29
And I don’t feel like I should have been on more Zoom calls. So my ability to put the foot my foot on the gas or take it off is exclusively on me Yeah. As opposed to having other obligations. So it’s very much a lifestyle business, and I understand that that’s gonna cap the upside.
Speaker: 5
01:06:43
Now there’s some things Ai can start CPG, I can start to do some clever stuff with ads where that will begin to ramp and ramp and ramp. But, yeah,
Speaker: 2
01:06:53
I’m You’ve got unlimited upside with how you spend your time now that you don’t have to do work twenty four seven.
Speaker: 5
01:06:57
Absolutely. And, you know, there may be a day when I decide to press that button again, but it’s it’s not right now. But just to like, before, Jason jumps in, you’ve got YouTube AdSense partners, Spotify partner program, which is brand new, and that’s actually cranking quite a lot.
Speaker: 5
01:07:13
And then the one area that I think way more podcasters need to look at, which is monetizing clips. So you do mid roll ads on a long podcast episode, you know, twenty minutes, thirty minutes, fifty minutes, a hundred and twenty minutes into an episode. But you can also be seven minutes into an eight minute long clip. Totally. And you can crank clips out all the time.
Speaker: 1
01:07:32
Yeah.
Speaker: 5
01:07:33
So you can be putting out one a day.
Speaker: 2
01:07:34
Right. So there’s other there’s other points of leverage.
Speaker: 5
01:07:37
Exactly. So you can look at, okay, how can we be a bit more a little bit more innovative? We can put Instagram stories or we can use newsletters, these sort of three sixty deals and fill out all of the ecosystem where you can without obliterating the viewing experience and, like, making the audience hate you.
Speaker: 1
01:07:52
You know, I I think that’s well sai. And the there’s gonna be international as well with AI. I don’t know if you’ve experimented. We have a company podcast Ai.
Speaker: 5
01:08:00
Dubbing stuff.
Speaker: 1
01:08:00
Dubbing stuff. And then that’ll be built into YouTube. So all of a sudden, you’ll be in Spanish, Japanese, and French, and and the whole cycle will start all over again. But, you know, I I did actually try that with This Week in Startups. I got the domain name thisweekend.com, and we did This Week in Poker with Annie Duke, and This Week in blank, This Week in blank, This Week in comedy.
Speaker: 1
01:08:20
We did we tried a bunch of those. The problem was
Speaker: 2
01:08:22
Oh, you did? You did different shows?
Speaker: 1
01:08:24
I did some different shows in the beginning. I did it for about a year. And what I realized was you could get, you know, average hosts, broadcast hosts, but you couldn’t get someone like Chris or Annie Duke for the long term. We had a guy, Dave sana a music producer, and I wanted to do This Week in Music. He wanted to do The Dave Pinsato Show.
Speaker: 1
01:08:44
He had his own view. And the really great creators, what they ai is, I want control of my art. I want control of my brand. I want to own my IP. I want to pick my team. I don’t want to be part of a machine.
Speaker: 1
01:08:59
And so what we’re seeing is people like Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson now are free. Ben Shapiro started with, he was on AM radio in, the in Los Angeles, and then he worked for Ai. And now he’s got his own company. He makes his own decisions. So I I think a lot of the talent the most talented people will wanna be independent practitioners.
Speaker: 5
01:09:21
True. There’s there’s an a sort of a weird level that people get to. Anybody who is sufficiently talented for you to think that they’re an a grade player is probably not going to want to sit underneath anybody else. And if someone isn’t that good, you’re kind of just filling the air with something that maybe isn’t going to catch.
Speaker: 2
01:09:37
Sai in this in the new media world, is it all just lots of independent producers and there is no studio model?
Speaker: 5
01:09:43
I think so.
Speaker: 1
01:09:44
Absolutely. I think sai.
Speaker: 5
01:09:45
Because a lot of people want that lifestyle.
Speaker: 1
01:09:47
What happens when you get rid of distribution? Like, it’s not like we have to ask somebody for permission anymore. Meh. It’s not like the record labels where you had to have distribution. You had to go to Columbia Records if you were a Bob Dylan to be in a record store. You you you can just do it.
Speaker: 2
01:10:00
Yeah. Well, I think the question is the economic moat being, can you reinvest capital in creating high quality content because it’s if that capital is invested well, it builds an it creates an audience.
Speaker: 1
01:10:12
So That’s you
Speaker: 2
01:10:13
give certain people money, people will show up.
Speaker: 5
01:10:15
More money comes out.
Speaker: 2
01:10:16
Yeah. More money comes out.
Speaker: 5
01:10:17
Yeah. Sai, I mean, you know, some high points of leverage would be getting a strategist who understands the YouTube algorithm and can ensure that no matter what it is you’re recording and how honest and truthful that is to your instinct
Speaker: 1
01:10:29
Right.
Speaker: 5
01:10:29
It’s being presented in the best way
Speaker: 1
01:10:31
Right.
Speaker: 5
01:10:31
For the algorithm. Right. We can repurpose, click, what are the sections that we’re choosing? So one thing that hasn’t been spoken about today, which is interesting on YouTube, is timeliness. So YouTube is increasingly becoming where people go to find out their news. So maybe you see something that trends on Twitter, and you’ll catch, you know, some clip of some kind.
Speaker: 2
01:10:47
Yeah. But
Speaker: 5
01:10:48
then you quickly over to YouTube. Okay. Where’s the breakdown? Yeah. And you’ll have seen to use Shapiro as a good example, Daily Ai, I think it’s called Ben After Dark or something like that. It’s not Ben After Dark. It’s Ben in his living room because something’s happened today. And before he can get back into the studio tomorrow, they need to get a video.
Speaker: 5
01:11:03
Trump gets shot today, you need to do your video today because people are going to be going, and that’s the hack to get to the top. Because We’ve had this issue where
Speaker: 2
01:11:11
we put out a shah, because we record Thursday mornings, and then it doesn’t publish usually till Friday afternoon. Something happens Thursday afternoon. Shah. And the show’s It’s it’s eight days ago. It. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:11:22
No one
Speaker: 2
01:11:22
will watch the show. That’s not true. Well, I mean, the people watches it, but everybody can play and you ai out. 40% down. Ai No.
Speaker: 1
01:11:28
What are we gonna do? It’s
Speaker: 3
01:11:29
just go Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:11:30
But it literally
Speaker: 5
01:11:31
about twenty four hour turnaround. It’s like I’m sorry. That’s stale. That’s old now.
Speaker: 2
01:11:34
That’s right.
Speaker: 1
01:11:35
Which is crazy when you think about it. I mean, I think this is the the next great opportunity will be somebody who just is sitting there go and has the ability to go live at any time. And This is
Speaker: 5
01:11:45
what a lot of streaming is doing. Right? You look at Hasanabi. You look at Destiny. You look at, Asmongold, Charlie, Penguin Zero. All of these guys are doing it. Now, yeah, they’re also playing, you know, like, video games too, but they’re commenting on a lot of culture. And they crush on this, not because they’re insane cultural commentators that are, you know, really deep in the research, but because they’re timely and they’ve usually got some take.
Speaker: 1
01:12:08
But it’d be really fascinating if somebody with depth you know, imagine if Sam Harris, when some breaking news story happened, turned on his livestream, and you’re like, oh meh god. We’re now we’ve got Sam Harris commenting on this assassination attempt or etcetera. And you see it in sports.
Speaker: 1
01:12:25
I I noticed Bill Simmons has started whenever there is a major trade, when the Kyrie trade happened, when the Luka Doncic trade happened, he just goes emergency pod. And I think they’re really starting to embrace it. That is ai a hack, and I think that will become a thing. I I often go to the live tab on YouTube now just to see what they’re talking about. Right? Mhmm.
Speaker: 1
01:12:46
It’s typically low quality, but once in a while, somebody will do something and Well, you
Speaker: 5
01:12:51
were talking about the relatability authenticity thing before. Yep. If somebody is talking about a developing situation which happened three hours ago, it has to be relate. You haven’t had time to become contrived.
Speaker: 2
01:13:03
Totally. You
Speaker: 5
01:13:03
know what I mean?
Speaker: 2
01:13:04
Totally.
Speaker: 1
01:13:05
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:13:05
I think that’s a big point. What other content do you think is going to win, going to continue to accelerate time and attention away from other forms of content? So the long form podcast conversation
Speaker: 1
01:13:16
Mhmm.
Speaker: 2
01:13:16
Learn about the world with meh. Are there other forms that are out there that are interesting to you, that formats that you think are new or emerging or that are real winners that are
Speaker: 5
01:13:23
I would continue to bet on Substack, I think. And that style of blogging, very frictionless. You know, it’s enabling writers to, work out loud. I think Jonathan Haidt basically wrote his entire new book chapter by chapter, published it on his Substack, allowed feedback.
Speaker: 1
01:13:39
Generation?
Speaker: 5
01:13:41
There’s another one about the Tyler Of Babel thing, which he’s working on next. Yeah. But, yeah, you just it’s this seamless transparent door. So writing, I think, has got, like, just huge, huge upside there. I’m not too sure what we’re going to see from Shortform. I’m aware that algorithmically, it’s able to, you know, like, get the bottom of your brain stem really well. But you were talking about this before.
Speaker: 5
01:14:01
It doesn’t seem like TikTok creators are able to convert one TikTok sub is worth you know? A hundred TikTok subs is maybe worth one YouTube sub.
Speaker: 2
01:14:11
Correct.
Speaker: 1
01:14:12
And, And a hundred YouTube’s are worth one email.
Speaker: 2
01:14:15
By the way, it’s a lot it’s a lot like having a cigarette. Ai, you need it, but you don’t want it. Mhmm. You know? You end up being ai, I’m not really looking forward to that TikTok tonight. You’re not really sitting there at work being ai, I can’t wait to watch that TikTok.
Speaker: 1
01:14:28
Yes. But then also you
Speaker: 2
01:14:28
get home and you’re like Sai need my TikTok. But you do look forward to seeing this great new movie that’s coming out this weekend.
Speaker: 1
01:14:33
Or the latest episode. Or
Speaker: 2
01:14:35
the latest episode.
Speaker: 1
01:14:35
You’re like
Speaker: 2
01:14:36
I ai that. I don’t need it but I want it. And I think there’s a big difference between that and I think that’s where the short form really hits the limbic system. It doesn’t actually activate the rest.
Speaker: 1
01:14:45
I think I think this is a a form of addiction that’s going to wind up like MTV going away. MTV and music videos, we we all as Gen Xers I think you’re on the tail end of Gen X or a millennial?
Speaker: 3
01:14:57
Millennial.
Speaker: 1
01:14:58
Millennial. Like, we kinda got addicted to it, and then it kinda went away as a format of just sitting there and watching three minute videos. And everybody thought our brains were getting scrambled because we were watching the video and then this week.
Speaker: 5
01:15:11
Said hold my beer.
Speaker: 1
01:15:12
Yeah. And TikTok’s like, yeah, wait one second. Seven seconds. And and it I think it’s fucking with people’s dopamine to a level that they don’t understand. And you do because you you dip into this stuff and you have interest in it. But you can’t fire your serotonin and see the moment, the most exciting, terrifying, funny moment in every piece of media back to back to back.
Speaker: 2
01:15:33
Oh, dopamine addiction. It’s
Speaker: 3
01:15:35
just crazy. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:15:36
The next day, people are feeling hungover. It’s because they’re fucking with that dopamine receptors in their brain, and then they can’t have a normal conversation. They can’t go to a normal dinner or have a conversation like this.
Speaker: 2
01:15:45
Or feel happy having a walk and a long talk.
Speaker: 3
01:15:47
I think this is
Speaker: 5
01:15:47
one of the reasons why I wouldn’t bet against the reading thing. I’m aware it’s limbically way less hijacking, but it feels like, going to rehab for your dopamine system. It’s one of the few things
Speaker: 2
01:15:58
It’s hard. That you
Speaker: 5
01:15:59
can only do it. Right? You can watch a movie in double screen. Yeah. You can be listening to a podcast while scrolling Instagram. Yeah. You can you know, you cannot read and do anything else.
Speaker: 2
01:16:08
I’ll tell you what I think might win. My personal point of view on this is I think that that content will get turned into, like, an AI chat experience. Ai, Jason makes fun of me about this, but I do sit in my car when I get, because I do a lot of long drives now. I was at my office, like Santa Cruz and the cities. I drive a lot. And I talk to ChatGPT Advanced Voice.
Speaker: 2
01:16:29
But I’ll talk about a topic, And I’ll like learn about it and I’ll engage with it and I’ll ai of go back and forth. But if I find if I flip on like a book on tape or something, my brain wanders off and I got questions and ideas ai I’m like, oh, then I start thinking about it and then I realize, oh meh, three minutes have gone by.
Speaker: 2
01:16:44
And so ram me personally, and maybe this is just the way I’m wired, like, I kind of like the interactive model. Ai I do think this great content, like Jonathan Haidt’s new book, gets put out as ai of an interactive mode, where I get to go engage, it starts telling me about it, I can ask questions, and ai almost like I’m having a conversation with the author.
Speaker: 2
01:16:59
Well, Ai That’s where going back to the earlier point. Like, the cultural experience is the the book written by the author, but the way I experience it is gonna be different than the way you experience it in an AI world.
Speaker: 5
01:17:07
I would love to look at how people pay attention to a conversation between multiple people, like a podcast, compared with an audiobook. And Right. The author is trying their best to come across with bounce and energy and engagement and stuff like that, but, really, it’s not. And it’s one person. Totally.
Speaker: 5
01:17:24
Ai one tone going through, recorded very carefully. Whereas when you’ve got stuff bouncing around, even that author talking about that book on a podcast, why am I so much more engaged? There’s something about that which
Speaker: 2
01:17:36
is more compelling. Sai It’s the way humans are. Humans aren’t designed to sit on the floor and be lectured to by another human. Humans are designed to be social creatures to have engagement, to have that process. And I think that that’s how it plays out in our brain. There’s more of a responsive chemistry
Speaker: 1
01:17:51
Right.
Speaker: 2
01:17:51
To that.
Speaker: 1
01:17:52
I’m excited for this pendulum to swing back and for people to ai read a book again or to watch a Kurosawa film in a sense. Well, you
Speaker: 2
01:18:01
know, that’s that’s a % right.
Speaker: 1
01:18:02
Ai. I meh, you can’t
Speaker: 2
01:18:03
watch a Kurosawa film and not feel.
Speaker: 1
01:18:05
Ai tell you what, you know, I think for a lot of young people they’re missing out on some of, like, the great beauty in life is to be able to give yourself over for two hours to a Kurosawa film, or to give yourself over to a book for an hour, just about an hour. And that’s what we’re gonna see, I think, in the coming years is people are gonna look at this like they looked at junk food, like they looked at cigarettes, and say, this is not healthy for me.
Speaker: 5
01:18:30
You’ve seen that, list of five regrets of the dying. It’s things like Sai wish I’d allowed myself to be the person I wanted to be, not the person that is expected of me. I wish I’d worked less. I wish I’d kept in touch with my friends. I would bet an awfully large amount of money that one of them in starting about thirty years’ time is gonna be, I wish I speak less time on my phone.
Speaker: 5
01:18:49
Yeah. And that’s gonna be Great.
Speaker: 1
01:18:50
I wish
Speaker: 2
01:18:51
I’d gone any TikTok. Point. Yeah. By the way, we’re gonna continue the conversation. So, guys, join us, thanking Chris, and we’re gonna invite the rest of the crew back out.
Speaker: 1
01:18:58
Oh, yeah. Come on out, everybody. Brian, come on up. This is my friend, Brian Johnson. Come on up. Ai. To you too.
Speaker: 2
01:19:05
Here we go.
Speaker: 1
01:19:06
Can we get him a ai for some details or something?
Speaker: 2
01:19:09
Will you introduce Brian?
Speaker: 1
01:19:12
Yeah. Brian Johnson, created a payments company. He was on This Week in Startups years ago. And then I looked up, and he, was sharing his nighttime erections on social media.
Speaker: 3
01:19:26
It’s three hours and twelve minutes. Yes.
Speaker: 1
01:19:27
Three hours and twelve minutes.
Speaker: 5
01:19:29
We we just Ryan, you’re you’re Kardashian famous now. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:19:33
Oh, really? You were on the Kardashians?
Speaker: 3
01:19:35
Yeah. Last week’s episode.
Speaker: 1
01:19:37
You were on last week’s episode. And, who was, you were hanging out with Kim or which Khloe? This is
Speaker: 5
01:19:44
Andrew Heubman, who was the star of the show.
Speaker: 1
01:19:46
Who was?
Speaker: 5
01:19:47
Andrew Heubman and Brian. That was my Trump Zelensky moment. You two in a room. I’m aware.
Speaker: 1
01:19:52
Oh, is this ai East Coast West Fest? It’s like Crips and Bloods? Ai guys get along or is he
Speaker: 3
01:19:56
We do
Speaker: 5
01:19:57
it all.
Speaker: 3
01:19:57
Yeah. We’re friends.
Speaker: 1
01:19:58
You’re friends? Yeah. Okay. What do you do together? Ai, the two of you
Speaker: 3
01:20:03
A secret.
Speaker: 1
01:20:04
I mean, do you guys exchange blood? What’s the
Speaker: 3
01:20:07
A secret. Secret. Yes.
Speaker: 5
01:20:08
Suss all in that I
Speaker: 2
01:20:11
They do lab tests. They do lab tests on a Saturday morning.
Speaker: 5
01:20:13
Spotify moved to video. I think that’s an interesting one to talk about. That’s something people aren’t really sort of factoring in because you turn what was an audio platform into, is this audio? Is this video? Now there’s trailers that you can see as well, and they are paying creators a, pretty penny.
Speaker: 5
01:20:28
So we were a part of the partner program for January and February, and we made more money from them with only 10% of our catalog uploaded than the entirety of our YouTube AdSense. So they are throwing they’re throwing everything at it
Speaker: 1
01:20:44
to take Well,
Speaker: 0
01:20:44
you do. We don’t. Uh-huh. And and We’re working on it. Yeah. But we’re working on it. But I think also, like, there’s, I think in all these platforms when they when they announce a new monetization model, they need model citizens. And I think, Chris, like your show is a model citizen for Spotify. Like, they’ve put you on billboards. They’re they’re definitely going like, ai.
Speaker: 2
01:21:03
The golden child.
Speaker: 0
01:21:04
Yeah. Modern wisdom is the show you sana be on Spotify. It’s video. It looks beautiful. It uploads quite a bit. It has a big back catalog. So I think, I think it’s a really interesting model. To me, it feels experimental. I think if it works, it’s great. Share of premium subscription revenue is awesome.
Speaker: 5
01:21:21
Ai, are you gonna be able to be within the vicinity of that passive smoke? I imagine this is you’re can be counting down how many minutes it’s gonna knock off your life.
Speaker: 3
01:21:29
Jason, what is this?
Speaker: 1
01:21:31
That’s Fuente. It’s a nice cigar. You can just chew on it.
Speaker: 3
01:21:34
What’s gonna happen if I chew on it?
Speaker: 1
01:21:35
You get a little nicotine hit, and, you’re gonna enjoy life for the first time in three years. Go ahead. I don’t know. I don’t
Speaker: 3
01:21:45
know if this fits in the protocol. I mean
Speaker: 1
01:21:46
Just chew it. Come on.
Speaker: 4
01:21:48
Ai this.
Speaker: 1
01:21:48
See what I’m doing here?
Speaker: 3
01:21:49
Alright. Should I do wait. Hold on. Before you before you say something, don’t die is in your hands. Do I chew on it?
Speaker: 2
01:21:58
No. Yes. Yes.
Speaker: 1
01:22:00
No. Give it a shot.
Speaker: 3
01:22:02
That was that was a very clear response. It It’s either bad
Speaker: 1
01:22:05
or you gotta do Chris’s ketamine. It’s one or the other. Which one are you gonna Which one?
Speaker: 3
01:22:09
Ai ketamine?
Speaker: 5
01:22:10
Yeah. We’ll do it backstage. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:22:13
He’s got ai good
Speaker: 5
01:22:13
I’m an excellent promoter. I do everything.
Speaker: 1
01:22:15
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 3
01:22:15
Yeah. Ai you want the cigar?
Speaker: 5
01:22:17
I’m okay. Thank you.
Speaker: 2
01:22:18
You did ketamine recently, didn’t you, Brian?
Speaker: 3
01:22:20
I did. Yeah. I used, so we we did we built a brain interface at my company, Colonel. We were trying to build a wearable fMRI, and we had this question, what happens when? You know, it was ai when you take an SSRI or when you take ketamine. And so, yeah, I did a, a dose intramuscular dose, and we meh my brain thirty days before the ketamine, during ketamine, and then four times after injection?
Speaker: 1
01:22:40
You snorted it or you did the Injection.
Speaker: 3
01:22:42
We did the max FDA allowed amount. And what was cool is we saw
Speaker: 2
01:22:45
You just did it on your you’re like, I’m just gonna max out.
Speaker: 3
01:22:47
Right? Yeah. Just like No. No. We had an IRB. We had it approved ethically. And what we saw so
Speaker: 2
01:22:52
Sorry. Just real quick. Have you done ketamine before this?
Speaker: 3
01:22:55
No. First time.
Speaker: 2
01:22:56
So you’re just chilling. You’re like, I’m gonna max out on ketamine. Yeah.
Speaker: 3
01:22:59
I just wanna make sure I really get this.
Speaker: 2
01:23:00
Like, I wanna get your mindset. Yeah.
Speaker: 3
01:23:02
We wanted to see the effect. You know? So, like, we have
Speaker: 2
01:23:04
When you say we, you know that it’s just you. Right?
Speaker: 3
01:23:05
Like, it’s, like Well, okay. So we we spent six years building this bryden interface. We built a custom ASIC. We we, like, pushed it through COVID. Like, it was, like, an all in effort.
Speaker: 2
01:23:15
You don’t have, like, an intern or a 23 year old analyst or something to be, like, maxed out on ketamine. Like Well,
Speaker: 3
01:23:20
I was also doing blueprint. So I ai, like, you know, this is interesting. Like, what what actually happens to the brain when and so, like, you think about so the so you put this helmet on your head and think of your brain like a globe. It has airports all around. You see traffic, like New York to Tokyo. And so my patterns were very fixed in that thirty days running up to the ketamine.
Speaker: 3
01:23:38
And then I did ketamine, and it just scrambles your brain. Like, all the traffic patterns are just remixed. And then, two or three days afterwards, it it drops. Sai now you’re, like, open minded to new patterns. And then days three, four, five, you come up to your old patterns again. So that’s why it makes sense.
Speaker: 3
01:23:54
There’s this therapeutic window where if you do a psychedelic, you’re open to new ideas and doing things. Yeah. But sai ai there was on the second day, I was in the office. We were walking in between meetings. We had these big walls.
Speaker: 3
01:24:03
Ai thought, why don’t I just jump over that wall? Ai, why am I going to take this long route? I just jumped over the wall not thinking about it. Ai, Brian, what are you doing jumping over
Speaker: 1
01:24:11
the wall?
Speaker: 3
01:24:11
But it just I did really behave, differently. And I had the way I thought, the way I behaved. I couldn’t really see my patterns very well, but because we are all watching it so closely. But it was cool. Now we have the ability to say what happens when Yeah. Anything.
Speaker: 2
01:24:25
But you could have done gotten that information without doing that. Like
Speaker: 1
01:24:29
Well, no. No. I think what you’re referring to is, you know, this phenomenon where, it kinda refrags your your your hard drive a bit and you disconnect from reality. Have did you disassociate a bit? Did you see yourself outside of your own body? Did you see, like Ai did. You were here and Ai Johnson’s here and then there’s a universe sana then you go past the universe and you’re in that space that’s outside the universe?
Speaker: 1
01:24:49
I wish
Speaker: 3
01:24:50
I had you doing. Same trip. Same trip. Same trip.
Speaker: 2
01:24:52
Same place? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:24:53
Yeah. I’ve been there. It’s pretty great. Sorry, Brian. Let me
Speaker: 2
01:24:56
let me just so there have been a lot of studies on, this kind of neuroplasticity that arises when you take these. You meh, like, vatsal neuroplasticity. Ai, basically the neurons are out searching for new connections. It really kind of activates those cells to go hunting and people get ai.
Speaker: 2
01:25:11
That’s why trauma can get rewired out of your brain and you can learn new stuff and develop new experiences. But it can also have profound changes on people’s psychology, motivations, other sort of factors. Have you noticed any of that kind of residual effect? Motivations change, point of view has changed, relationships, personalities arya different relationships, or people like you’re different, you’re x y or z, you’re not Brian Yeah.
Speaker: 2
01:25:31
Where that’s kind of affected you in a way?
Speaker: 3
01:25:33
It was only one ai, so I didn’t notice anything in particular. It was really that shah acute, like, two or three day window. I think if I would have paired some therapy in there, I probably could have done something meaningful, but I didn’t.
Speaker: 1
01:25:42
Like, Sai we just were really looking at
Speaker: 3
01:25:44
the quantitative measurements. But, yeah, I mean, it really you’re right. Like, it scrambles the brain. It was cool to see it because before this, nobody had ever seen ketamine on the brain. You don’t see the patterns that are in place. You don’t see what’s scrambled. You don’t see when they reform. And, like, you could take these patterns. It’s think of, like, a 96 by ninety ai six grid.
Speaker: 3
01:26:00
You can use these patterns to assess intelligence, emotions, character traits. Like, it’s very informative. And so these things when you assess and you reassemble, you really tend to do is a lot of you infer a lot of things about the person.
Speaker: 1
01:26:13
Yeah. I mean, we’re joking about it here, but, you know, I have, some friends who have spent a a great deal of time, money, and effort on, the MAPS project, Tim Ferriss. A number of my friends have, really worked on this in a clinical session and and setting. And it can have a profound impact on PTSD, on relationships, on ram, but I just wanna give people, like, a caveat here that these are extremely powerful modalities, and you need to do them in the proper setting.
Speaker: 1
01:26:46
The set, the setting, the dose are all extremely important. But people with PTSD, you know, are coming out of, you know, 09:11. My brother’s a firefighter. A lot of firefighters in New York and and first responders, you know, they haven’t gotten over it. And and they’ve gone to some of these, sessions, and they’ve come out of it. And and they and they found speak.
Speaker: 1
01:27:06
And it can process, you know, what can’t be done in a hundred sessions of psychotherapy can get processed in two or three of these sessions. I think it’s very important that we we take it seriously, even though some people are doing it at Burning Man and having fun with it. I get it.
Speaker: 1
01:27:22
People wanna do that.
Speaker: 5
01:27:23
It’s a dependency risk with ketamine that there isn’t with a lot of the other substances that you can use too.
Speaker: 1
01:27:28
This is the problem. Is and it’s interesting. My my friend Saloni Hsieh passed, and he, got addicted to ketamine specifically, and it it disassociated him. And then that’s the problem with the recreational use or the use alone, Chris. There’s a lot of very, you know, notable CEOs, I know friends who have gotten into it and they’ve had good intention, and then maybe they’re at home watching Netflix or YouTube, and they are doing it out of boredom.
Speaker: 1
01:27:56
Meh. And that’s where it gets very pernicious, and I
Speaker: 0
01:27:59
just be careful.
Speaker: 2
01:28:00
Can we go back just to the content creator piece? Brian, you’re I mean, you basically, started talking about Don’t Die, and you’ve created quite a bit of content around this. What’s the model for building a business where you did you actively think, hey. I gotta build an audience to get this effort to be successful?
Speaker: 3
01:28:18
Yeah. No. We we actually didn’t. So Kate, my ai, is here with me. We we were posing the question, we thought it was a cool question to ask. Are we the first generation who won’t die? You know, it’s kinda like in in 1870, you’re back in there, and you you hear in town, people are like, hey.
Speaker: 3
01:28:35
There’s this new weird idea. There’s this guy saying that there’s these microscopic objects. They’re called bacteria or something like that. They cause infection. They lead to death.
Speaker: 3
01:28:43
And then others are like, that’s stupid as fuck because really it’s just, you know, it’s bad spirits. We know that’s what’s causing the situation. And so if you’re getting into surgery, you really care to know, is this a correct idea or incorrect idea? And turns out bacteria are real. They actually cause infection.
Speaker: 3
01:28:57
They can lead to death. And I think the parallel here for us right now is, like, are we legit the first generation who won’t die? And so that was our our effort, just actually scientifically go do that. And then, someone did a Twitter thread on this, and it just went viral.
Speaker: 3
01:29:11
It had, like, 50,000,000 views, and we’re like, what the you know, what’s going on? The tsunami of hate came our way. And it was just ai, there’s so much raw energy under this topic. We didn’t know that was the case. And so, yeah, we’ve just been trying to basically take people along the journey of, like, this is what we’re doing.
Speaker: 3
01:29:27
So content really been ai a an afterthought to a primary mission, and now it’s a primary modality for us to go after this.
Speaker: 1
01:29:35
And you productized it. I I came home. My wife is I was joking about the nutty pudding. It’s I mean, it’s not my favorite, but it’s healthy, and I’ve had it a couple of times. I eat it, and my wife’s got the whole cupboard filled with blueprint stuff. I was told the Whisper number’s over a hundred million dollars in sales.
Speaker: 3
01:29:51
Yeah. We’ll beat up we’ll beat a hundred million dollars in less than twelve months. And so but the but the goal was not to make money. It was, like so it went ai, and people are like, I love this. I wanna do it, but it’s so damn hard. Right? You have to, like, source all this stuff.
Speaker: 3
01:30:04
And we had learned ourselves that when we source things that most labels are incorrect, most things are toxic, and there’s, like, a disaster out there. So we started sourcing our own stuff. And so, like, well, why don’t we don’t why don’t we just package this up? Like, CPG sucks.
Speaker: 3
01:30:16
It’s the worst business in the world. So we were legit, like, do the world a sana. Like, make this available. Like, we’ve worked so hard to make this available, and it’s impossible to do unless you’re all You’re
Speaker: 1
01:30:26
losing money or you’re making just a very modest profit arya?
Speaker: 3
01:30:29
Very yeah. So we’re almost basically breakeven.
Speaker: 1
01:30:31
Got it. So it’s a four breakeven, not a four not not a nonprofit. And, Chris, you’re you’re drinking this new category of beverage you created. Maybe you could talk a little bit about your intent with your product.
Speaker: 5
01:30:40
Yeah. I think one of the easiest hacks Can
Speaker: 1
01:30:42
we get a couple of these out here? I sana drink. I’m losing my energy. Thank you. I
Speaker: 5
01:30:45
think Let’s go, Jonathan. Hurry up.
Speaker: 1
01:30:46
One of
Speaker: 5
01:30:47
the easiest hacks that you can do if you wanna be successful in CPG is take something that people are already consuming, source it better, improve the formulation, and then put it back out. Right? You know, a better for you dot dot dot, a better for you pair of underwear, a better for you chocolate bar, a better for you hydration drink.
Speaker: 5
01:31:02
So we made a better few energy drinks. So evidence based, research backed, nootropic ingredients, efficacious doses, blah blah blah. And we bootstrapped it. And I got to build it from the ground floor up and create the ram, come up with the copy, the shoots, and everything else. And, and I love it.
Speaker: 5
01:31:15
And now we’ve got to the stage where some really big players are sniffing around, and we’ve only been in the market for eighteen months.
Speaker: 2
01:31:20
Are you guys gonna do a CPG business? It’s ai of the trend is yours. No. What would you do? What are what are you gonna do? I mean, we’re a little
Speaker: 4
01:31:28
bit different in that, like, our value prop is, creator education. So we try and think of, like, what is an extension of our value prop. And for us, you know, digital goods courses, that’s ai a direct extension, so that’s what we have.
Speaker: 0
01:31:37
As much as Brian is a content creator, I will say, like, I came across Brian’s content. I was marginally interested, kind of, like, you know, confused by it, then got invited to one of his dinners. And ai I really commend you for doing the dinners. Because I think the dinner is, like, it’s very unscalable, but it actually creates a lot of scale. And people come to those dinners ai meh.
Speaker: 0
01:31:56
I’ve been talking about that dinner for, I don’t know when that was, six, seven months ago, and telling a lot of people about it. And it was a very impactful event. And I think actually, like, the creators today who are doing things like this, getting people together physically, last week when we were here, there’s a creator named Jake Shane sold out the Moody Center.
Speaker: 0
01:32:13
It was about 3,000 people. He started as a TikTok creator up there for an hour and a half by himself doing comedy. Amazing. And it’s amazing. And I think, like, getting people together and actually having, like, face to face impact, that’s where I think ai you can build a product
Speaker: 1
01:32:26
like that.
Speaker: 5
01:32:27
You know how we were saying it’s gonna be lovely if there’s a counter movement against the TikTokification, very short form video? I do get the sense that, Coffee and Chill, do you know what that is? If you heard of Coffee and Chill, or Mushroom Cowboy, these are daytime sober rays.
Speaker: 5
01:32:41
Oh, I saw this on TikTok. Yeah. So Paradoxically. You know, a couple of hours on a Saturday or Sunday from 10AM or midday or something like that. And, I think that what we’re seeing is the equivalent here of the work from anywhere, digital nomads, degenerate, wake up whenever you want, fuel yourself with caffeine, and get back get to work.
Speaker: 5
01:32:58
And this is the backlash against that, which is people are desperate for in person events. They’re desperate for stuff like this. And it’s not just this. Think about any conference you’ve ever been to. The speak cool, whatever. They’re the ai you go to see.
Speaker: 5
01:33:11
But what you’re really there for are the conversations in the foyer. Yeah. In between Yeah. The different events.
Speaker: 4
01:33:16
Mhmm. I sana say like the higher the higher the barrier sometimes, the bigger the fan. Right? Like your episodes are three hours long, that’s a pretty big barrier. Like you get to the end, you’re invested. Like, you’re a fan of you ai? It’s the same thing with events. Right?
Speaker: 4
01:33:28
Like, there are brands and creators now that are starting with events.
Speaker: 2
01:33:31
Oh, I think it makes so much sense. Ai, think about it. Like, you give up your ai, your form of social engagement in a kind of free way, not a structured way as soon as you’re done with college. And then you’re at the workplace. And at the workplace, if you’re working in an office, it’s like you got the thing to do and you’re bryden.
Speaker: 2
01:33:46
Then you go, ai, where else do you have this kind of social engagement at scale?
Speaker: 1
01:33:50
They’re
Speaker: 5
01:33:50
also pre selecting, you know, as you say, if it’s a three hour long podcast or it’s a really niche topic, you know, it’s a particular series of Warhammer 40 k that not many people know about or it’s some weird Japanese anime. Like, you are pre selecting for people like you, assuming that you’re interested in it. This is why Reddit is so good. Right?
Speaker: 5
01:34:08
It’s Reddit is a website filled with people who couldn’t find others to have that discussion with in their hometown. Right.
Speaker: 2
01:34:15
That’s true. That’s very true.
Speaker: 1
01:34:16
It’s very true. Well, you know what? I just wanna point out with these CPG products, the the creators who are making them, like when you two gentlemen make something or Saks is making this all in tequila
Speaker: 2
01:34:27
Or where’s my Super Gut bars?
Speaker: 1
01:34:29
And yeah. Super Gut, which is fantastic. The the peanut butter one is pretty good. You know that Freeburg’s not making Super Gutty. You’re not making Blueprint or you’re not making
Speaker: 5
01:34:40
Tonic.
Speaker: 1
01:34:41
Nutonic. You’re not doing it because you want to maximize profitability. You want to be proud of it. You want to know that the person buying it had had a great experience and it was good for them. Right?
Speaker: 5
01:34:55
There was a hole that didn’t exist. And the other thing, which I’m sure you guys have have sensed as well, the online course is the best way if you want to. The the margins are amazing. The scale is just fantastic, but you never get to see someone holding your course. If you get to see
Speaker: 0
01:35:11
someone If you do it as cohorts, which we which we have done, you do get to see them digitally. And now our, you know, our idea is to actually go, hey. Can we take that and have that be also entry into a live workshop or live session?
Speaker: 1
01:35:25
That’s gonna crack.
Speaker: 5
01:35:26
Yeah. Harrelously close to, like, creator Tony Robbins. Right? I can see you on stage, Joey.
Speaker: 3
01:35:30
I’ll make
Speaker: 2
01:35:31
I’ll make a bet right now. That’ll make you guys more money than anything else combined. Yeah.
Speaker: 0
01:35:34
I think that’s By far. Your your question that you asked before was, like, how does that compare? Like, right now, the reality is, like, in a single check, a a brand deal, you know, makes more money when it’s one client. But as what we’re what we’re watching right now in the course business is, like, you know, a hundred people on an $800 product is significant.
Speaker: 0
01:35:52
A thousand people, it gets even more significant. It just
Speaker: 2
01:35:55
because you guys will sell tickets to the live event, but the sponsors to get that targeted audience in a captive way will pay you more than they’ll pay for the online. That’s where you guys
Speaker: 1
01:36:04
only go to school. They go 50,000, 2 hundred 50 thousand dollars in debt. And then what I hear from young people all the time is they go take a course afterwards. And that course for $800 does more from them in the market place and getting jobs than the degree did. And I think this roll your own education is very similar to function health in in a way which is ai, I’m gonna take control of it.
Speaker: 1
01:36:28
I’m not gonna have an MD direct my ai care. I’m gonna get my blood work myself. I’m gonna do my research. I’m gonna go on ChatGPT or Groc or whatever. I’m gonna ask about peptides. I’m gonna ask about this. I’m gonna cross reference it.
Speaker: 1
01:36:41
I’m gonna listen to your podcast or Huberman, you know, whatever. And I think that this self ai and this new category of products and services that are available, it kinda resets this industrialization that occurred. Mhmm. I’m sure Procter and Gamble and some of these things didn’t start out with the evil intent that is now in their products and in their
Speaker: 2
01:37:02
system. You gotta cut that out. Well, I don’t give a I’m not Honestly, like Procter
Speaker: 1
01:37:06
and Gamble give a shit. They’re pretty die in fucking kid’s cereal.
Speaker: 2
01:37:09
Well, I You
Speaker: 1
01:37:10
know, when you I talked to I talked to
Speaker: 2
01:37:12
and Gamble.
Speaker: 1
01:37:12
Like Like Ai their cereals. And then can go They’re
Speaker: 5
01:37:17
the envy.
Speaker: 2
01:37:17
They’re bad guys.
Speaker: 1
01:37:18
I don’t give a shit about their sponsorship. Seriously
Speaker: 2
01:37:20
Sai guarantee you’re using Procter and Gamble toothpaste in about three hours.
Speaker: 1
01:37:24
No. They’re not. I got that Ai Procter and Gamble. Puts me on all this shit. I’m telling you, they’re they literally are putting dye in children’s cereal. They’re putting corn syrup in children’s cereal. They’re poisoning the fucking country to make an extra $2.03, $4.05 cents. What the what’s the word you used?
Speaker: 1
01:37:41
We were talking about the word England you used, the c word?
Speaker: 5
01:37:46
Yes.
Speaker: 3
01:37:47
So I agree, Jason.
Speaker: 0
01:37:48
He’s doused. Right? Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:37:50
Cool. Yeah.
Speaker: 3
01:37:51
We can cut it, but I agree. Ai meh, so we just launched a new endeavor called Don’t Die certified, and we’re testing foods.
Speaker: 1
01:37:58
Go oh, yeah. Let’s go.
Speaker: 3
01:38:00
Baby foods, pet foods, all packaged foods. And we got the early results back.
Speaker: 1
01:38:05
You got the receipts?
Speaker: 3
01:38:06
We do. And so yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:38:08
How bad is
Speaker: 3
01:38:09
it? Bad? Worse worse than you think.
Speaker: 2
01:38:11
Yeah. Sorry. What do you mean to ask Ai what do you test?
Speaker: 3
01:38:13
Ai. We’re so we’re doing heavy meh. Heavy metals. Four metals. Yep. Then we’re doing glyphosate, some other agrochemicals, and then maybe
Speaker: 1
01:38:21
a a
Speaker: 3
01:38:21
few phthalates bisnol. Worst product you
Speaker: 1
01:38:23
got so far?
Speaker: 3
01:38:24
So we okay. We got results back from
Speaker: 2
01:38:27
Have you done any phthalates? Have you done plastics? Or is that Yes.
Speaker: 3
01:38:30
We’re doing that too. So we’ll probably have it later. There’s less evidence around that. Yeah. But, yes, like, the cool model we’re doing is if you can you find your food, go to the website. We’ll launch this next week. Yep. Find your find your food and say, I want this tested. So you can put up the money.
Speaker: 3
01:38:42
If you get enough money, so it
Speaker: 1
01:38:43
What does that cost? $34?
Speaker: 3
01:38:45
No. Like, $500.
Speaker: 1
01:38:47
What? Wow. Yeah.
Speaker: 3
01:38:47
Yeah. Oh,
Speaker: 1
01:38:48
I’m doing 10. You’re crowdfunding.
Speaker: 5
01:38:50
Exactly. So other people that also eat that thing from Sweetgreen can be like, I wanna know if it’s got loads of plastics in it.
Speaker: 3
01:38:55
Exactly. So then the test gets triggered, results come back, and then we go to the brand and we say, hey. Come claim your product. So they then come back and we say, alright. Now do you pay back the people who funded your test? Like, you should have been testing in the first place.
Speaker: 3
01:39:07
So they’re doing the work for you. So we sana we wanna do the food home in The US. We wanna test 20% of foods that that make up 80% of The US diet. So then we can say, on average, the average American consumes blank, you know, mercury per day or cadmium or whatever. So we tested a few of the things.
Speaker: 3
01:39:24
We looked at diapers. There was a dangerously high level of glyphosate
Speaker: 1
01:39:27
in diapers.
Speaker: 2
01:39:28
For the cotton?
Speaker: 3
01:39:29
Cotton, exactly.
Speaker: 2
01:39:30
Round up ready cotton.
Speaker: 3
01:39:30
Exactly. And then we also tested tampons. High ai ai metals.
Speaker: 1
01:39:36
Which brands heavy metals?
Speaker: 3
01:39:37
Call them out right now. We can’t yeah. So we we Oh, yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:39:41
We got the test soon. Exactly. So we’re sana work reveal the first
Speaker: 3
01:39:43
few ones, but dog food was really bad, which makes sense. Dogs have been living, you know, their shorter lives now. But, yeah, once you start seeing this, it’s really, pretty Have
Speaker: 5
01:39:52
you guys checked out plasticlist.org? Do you see that? Not the
Speaker: 1
01:39:55
last thing. Another rich dude spending his money ai. Sai love it. No.
Speaker: 2
01:40:00
I’m totally not. But Ai Look. This
Speaker: 1
01:40:03
Ai on a sai. This ai
Speaker: 2
01:40:04
I I don’t it’s all I know it’s super hyperbolic, but ai just the plastic thing, it’s really important to note. They they rank things, but you also have to look at the absolute numbers. This is where this can get a little too carried away. I I think that there’s a lot of shocking shit in there that’s super bad.
Speaker: 2
01:40:20
But you’ve also got to recognize that a tiny amount that’s ai one one trillionth of something that could ever affect your body, they’ll flush out, may not be that bad. So we’ve got to be really cognizant on how we interpret this stuff.
Speaker: 1
01:40:31
These motherfuckers knew the whole time they were doing it. They knew.
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01:40:34
Who’s the
Speaker: 1
01:40:35
They were these This is like The induction of wax.
Speaker: 2
01:40:38
Like who could
Speaker: 1
01:40:39
be one third of a newtonic and you got fired up.
Speaker: 2
01:40:42
Thank you. This is great.
Speaker: 1
01:40:43
This is great. This is a great
Speaker: 2
01:40:44
No. I’m telling you, I’m so I have
Speaker: 1
01:40:47
I am so infuriated about this because these people you know it’s true. You know it’s true. They knew they were doing this, and it takes some rich guy who’s bored and principled. No offense.
Speaker: 2
01:41:00
I love you. You know
Speaker: 1
01:41:02
I love you. And the who’s the guy who’s doing the plastic.org?
Speaker: 2
01:41:05
Zach,
Speaker: 3
01:41:06
Not Friedman.
Speaker: 2
01:41:07
Oh, not Friedman. Sorry.
Speaker: 1
01:41:08
Not Friedman. Another rich Internet guy. He’s like, you know what? I’m bored. These guys are screwing people over. I’m gonna test plastics.
Speaker: 5
01:41:14
Saloni Hari turns up with 400,000 signatures outside of Kellogg’s HQ and says you make in the same factory the Canadian version, which uses beetroot coloring and and and carrot coloring to make it. And the the exact same factory is throwing meh 40 and
Speaker: 3
01:41:29
Yeah. So, like so, again, to back you Jason on this. So Gerber so there’s a law passed by California that said baby food providers have to disclose heavy metals in their foods. So it went into effect January 1. And so we go to Gerber’s ai.
Speaker: 2
01:41:41
All heavy meh?
Speaker: 1
01:41:42
Yeah.
Speaker: 3
01:41:42
I think the four. Four people. And so it’s okay. So go to Gerber’s website. I can’t find heavy metals results anywhere. And then I realized my VPN’s on and I’m coming from a server outside of California. They’ve IP blocked
Speaker: 5
01:41:55
No way.
Speaker: 3
01:41:56
To get California only IP origination. They hide it. And so this is what I’m saying. These companies, like These are nefarious. It’s really not not good. I mean What do
Speaker: 1
01:42:06
you think of, Bobby Kennedy, friend of the pod, and, you know, him taking this on ram Sana? Sai don’t wanna make it political, but
Speaker: 2
01:42:13
how did we get to this?
Speaker: 0
01:42:15
This is interesting.
Speaker: 3
01:42:16
How it would happen.
Speaker: 1
01:42:16
Freeberg, this is the good shit, man. This is the good shit. Do you
Speaker: 2
01:42:19
guys like this?
Speaker: 0
01:42:21
Yeah. They love it, man.
Speaker: 1
01:42:22
This is a this is the this is
Speaker: 3
01:42:24
how all in here. Channel.
Speaker: 1
01:42:25
We take little detours.
Speaker: 4
01:42:27
They hate Procter. We
Speaker: 1
01:42:27
take detours. This is a side quest worth taking.
Speaker: 2
01:42:31
Give me give me one of your nicotine drinks.
Speaker: 5
01:42:35
K b. There’s others there’s others in the other green room. There’s some in the other green room. Okay.
Speaker: 2
01:42:39
I’m okay. I did food. I did
Speaker: 1
01:42:40
a lot
Speaker: 2
01:42:40
of drugs earlier. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: 1
01:42:42
What do you think of Bobby Kennedy?
Speaker: 3
01:42:44
Ai I think he is going to challenge status quo power. Ai I think that’s gonna create a lot of conflict and a lot of reconfigurations. I think we’ll refrag.
Speaker: 1
01:42:53
I like the refrag.
Speaker: 2
01:42:53
There’s a lot look. The thing there’s a lot of really important questions being asked that are not asked in the way that they that they’re being asked now. That’s the most important thing. Is the system need to be challenged, and whatever’s left will get hardened, and whatever shouldn’t be there will get blasted away. And that’s it.
Speaker: 1
01:43:09
But you gotta name and shah.
Speaker: 2
01:43:10
You gotta ask
Speaker: 1
01:43:10
the question. Really pisses me off. You gotta name and shame in order for them to do what’s right. That’s what’s so fucked up. They wanna do any They
Speaker: 2
01:43:19
wanna do ai of the AMAs or
Speaker: 1
01:43:21
I ai, I don’t know. I felt like this was going in a nice direction. Ai enjoyed the I got it.
Speaker: 2
01:43:26
I got ai. I got it.
Speaker: 1
01:43:27
The conversation Ai find enjoyable.
Speaker: 3
01:43:29
Just see
Speaker: 2
01:43:29
if there’s any cool AMAs. If people ask these questions,
Speaker: 1
01:43:31
come on.
Speaker: 5
01:43:31
I’ve got a question Bryden.
Speaker: 2
01:43:32
I’ve got a
Speaker: 1
01:43:33
question for Brian in the meantime. Yeah. I’ll wait for a good question. Sure.
Speaker: 5
01:43:34
Brian, if you were to without someone having to completely decimate their entire diet and never look at meat again, what would you say are sort of top triaged lifestyle changes most people should look at making, based on what it is that you guys have looked at? Yeah. I mean,
Speaker: 3
01:43:49
the power laws are so clear. Sleep is, like, by far and away the biggest power law. Then exercise, number two. Diet, number three. And so it’s just being consistent on those three things. Then once you get those two those three layers, you can go down other layers. But, like, what we’ve tried to do is we’ve tried to say anything which increases my speed of aging is a form of ai. So how do you eliminate that?
Speaker: 3
01:44:09
And then we just started with the power laws. I start with zero all the way down and just yep.
Speaker: 2
01:44:14
Top three things for sleep?
Speaker: 3
01:44:16
So the the thing you wanna do is you wanna lower so the key marker is lowering your resting heart rate before bed. That is the numb I’d say if you could mark if you could optimize one marker in your entire life, it’s that. So before you go to bed tonight, look at a wearable or take your pulse. It’s your resting heart rate. So tonight, let’s just say you’re at 55.
Speaker: 3
01:44:34
So your goal of the next week or two is to try to get down to 50. The next month, forty five. As you do that, so the way you ai it down is you have your final meal of the day at least two hours before bedtime. So if you go to bed at ten, bryden at eight, and then push it back an hour, you’re okay. It’s like thirty minutes each day.
Speaker: 3
01:44:50
And as you push it back every day, your heart rate is sana to go down incrementally because your body has more time to digest. So then you also find that food you eat, like if you eat a big pasta or or pizza or something, it will jack up the heart rate. So mine right now is 44 beats per minute.
Speaker: 3
01:45:05
So if I eat late in the day, if my last meal today is at noon, and I did that after like a few hundred experiments of like, what optimizes my resting heart rate? If I have a big meh, like a five or six, I’ll be at like low fifties. Now, it’ll take away about 30 to 40% of my sleep.
Speaker: 2
01:45:18
Sai you go to sleep super hungry?
Speaker: 3
01:45:20
Actually, I’m okay. Yeah. My body is really adapted. So food is a really big one. And then two is ai down routine. So you need to calm yourself down. You can’t have your phone up. You need to turn it off. Give yourself, like, thirty to sixty minutes. Decompress from the day because it can
Speaker: 2
01:45:33
get Leave leave your kids in the house and go sleep in the garage.
Speaker: 1
01:45:35
Yeah. No. No. One shower. That that could help.
Speaker: 3
01:45:39
And, actually, a book in hand has, probably the best evidence. Yeah. So what Chris was saying. Right? It’s like you can’t do anything. So screen off, book in hand, spend even ten minutes, and you’ll be amazed at how much it’ll calm you down.
Speaker: 5
01:45:53
Yeah. There’s some cool stuff around. People thought it was the blue light from screens that were impacting melatonin release and cortisol and stuff as you went to sleep. It seems like it’s much more what you’re interacting with on the phone, that you’re so engaged. That dopamine’s ai.
Speaker: 5
01:46:06
You’re probably getting riled up about you sending stuff to friends. It’s triggering all of these ideas in you, as opposed to if you just sit down and read Red Rising or something by Pierce Brown, and you go off to sleep dreaming about being
Speaker: 3
01:46:16
in Exactly. And you can and you can measure it by how much your heart rate goes up or down. Yeah. So you now have a quantitative benchmark every single day if you could speak that those habits.
Speaker: 5
01:46:25
Regularity versus duration, what’s more important?
Speaker: 3
01:46:28
Consistency is so important because your body tells time like a clock. Like, when I was I did eight months of perfect sleep, a hundred percent sleep every night to show I can do high quality sleep.
Speaker: 1
01:46:36
You’re tracking on WHOOP or you’re tracking on
Speaker: 3
01:46:39
Eight then. Eight sleep.
Speaker: 1
01:46:39
Yeah. Yeah. And they they tend to arya pretty close?
Speaker: 3
01:46:43
No. Oh. Yeah. I mean, like, they’re all they’re all relative comparisons. They’re not absolute. Sai just stick find one. They’re all fine. Yeah. And this is the been
Speaker: 1
01:46:52
the big unlock for me. I am now sleeping. I got a 94 last night. I got a 99 2 Nights ago. It’s my highest score ever. I’m I’m really dialing in the sleep. Yeah. And it’s changed everything for me.
Speaker: 3
01:47:03
It’s the biggest life improvement you can do, period. It’s the best in performance enhancing drug. It is, like, it is just better than anything on market. But, like, be consistent because your deep sleep window happens in the first two hours of ai. So that’s when the the garbage trash collector comes through to pick up all the trash in your body. If you miss that window, you miss it.
Speaker: 3
01:47:23
So you miss the garbage trash collection. So that’s why pick your bedtime and be consistent. Otherwise, you get junk accumulation.
Speaker: 0
01:47:31
On the inverse of that, I have a six week old baby, so I have, like, the least consistent sleep right now. How long can I endure that?
Speaker: 1
01:47:40
I’ll tell you two things that also worked for me because I sometimes sleep with my bulldog, and that was killing it. But I got these, nice, headphones, and, I’ll listen to some, really high fidelity sleep music, and use an eye mask, and both of those added a couple of points.
Speaker: 1
01:47:57
And that was really a good unlock for me. How about how are you sleeping, Chris?
Speaker: 5
01:48:00
Yeah. Pretty good.
Speaker: 1
01:48:01
Yeah? Pretty good. Thank you.
Speaker: 5
01:48:02
Yeah. Audio box, I go to speak. Turn that off. And, Sai mean, you’ve you’ve probably got a problem with the ionizing radiation, non ionizing radiation. You bothered about Bluetooth headphones, Brian?
Speaker: 3
01:48:11
No.
Speaker: 5
01:48:12
Oh, that’s good. That’s the first thing I’ve proposed to you that I’m still allowed to do in my life. Everything else is ai the fun police that comes in and tells me everything’s good. Oh, the dye police, I guess. Yeah.
Speaker: 3
01:48:21
I’m actually I’m actually the happy police. Right? Like, the shah I say, it makes you happy. People, they have this misconception that, like, staying up late and missing bedtime and drinking is happy. It’s not. It is sad. It makes you depressed. And we have to be honest. Like, we think it’s happy. It’s not.
Speaker: 1
01:48:37
Well, listen. Thank you to all of our guests. And, you know, you’re very busy. I really appreciate you ai here. I know that you’ve been busy, and congratulations on the big win for Nosferatu. That was great. That’s an Oscar’s reference. Thank you
Speaker: 0
01:48:49
to the people who got it.
Speaker: 1
01:48:50
But, seriously, are you worried because I mean yeah. Ai are you sure what you’re doing, like, this extreme is a good idea? I’m I’m a little concerned. Sometimes. Yeah. You might be turning into a vampire. I don’t know. You you are doing the blood transfusion?
Speaker: 3
01:49:06
Yeah. You know, I did it because my dad was experiencing cognitive decline, and he called and he called me in a panic. And he sai, I will do anything to save my my consciousness. And so I did it for him. So the headlines is all about my son and my and my meh. But
Speaker: 1
01:49:19
What? You did a transfusion with your dad?
Speaker: 3
01:49:21
Yeah. That was the whole
Speaker: 2
01:49:22
After doing it with your son.
Speaker: 3
01:49:23
Yeah. So I Three generational Yes. My dad called me. He’s like, okay. I’m experiencing so he was writing something for work. He walked away and he came back and it was a jumbled mess. And he’s like, Ram experiencing cognitive decline and I can’t see it. He said, when I thought I would start, like, forgetting names or, like, missing keys, but, like, right there in front of me, I didn’t see the jumbled mess.
Speaker: 3
01:49:42
So he called me. He’s like, I’m panicking. And so I was like, dad, we’re actually looking at this new evidence on these plasma infusions. I’m happy to give you a plasma if you ai you wanna try it. Like, we don’t know if it’s gonna work or not. So then my son heard.
Speaker: 3
01:49:53
He’s like, I’m in. Like, we’ll do a ai generational thing. I’m like, great. It’s a family activity.
Speaker: 1
01:49:58
Is there any empirical evidence of this, Chris?
Speaker: 2
01:50:01
This is we we should talk about this another ai, but this is there’s a lot of good work on this. This this
Speaker: 1
01:50:06
is a You think that this is a path we’re pursuing?
Speaker: 2
01:50:08
This is I mean, it’s longer conversation.
Speaker: 1
01:50:10
Chris, what are you doing after? You wanna do some more transfusion?
Speaker: 2
01:50:12
I’m doing ketamine with Ai
Speaker: 1
01:50:14
the way. Okay. Can we transfuse sai well?
